Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bubo.
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Lip Story and Righteous on Yesterday and listening watching Limb always keep its watching. And now you're hosts Cliff Berkman and James Boobo Fay.
Hello, Bubbo, what's happening? Man?
Oh? I just got back in from a little hike.
Nice. Where'd you go?
There's a trailer goes kind of I never really use it until just this year, but it goes from like we're two nine and one on one coming there and it connects up it goes like behind the mills and stuff, and then it goes up into as like industrial zone and it goes up into the community forest that's behind Arcada and Humboldt stayed up there. I think it's like
sevente hunderd acre red with community forest. It's it's nice, you know, it's all ferns and I was sick of spruce and stuff, and so my buddy Aloy were like walking up in there and it's like blowing twenty five knots, overcast, gray like on and off showers, kind of cold wind, blowing really dark and grounded underneath the canopy, you know.
And so we're walking up and we're coming around the corner stres he's like two beautiful girls, like early twenties, like college, you know, girls that were like look like like the kind of hot chicks at Burning Man you see, you know, like they're all like look like they're like festival girls, you know, like.
The kind that you can pretty much bet would know how to hula hoop and perhaps naked, sure, yeah, naked hula hoopers and perhaps yeah.
And they were like they like just like shocked that we were like came walking and like it's a pretty used trail, Like they're like, it's I was shocked how crowded it is. Like every time I go out there's like people on it. And uh, I've been going with a like a couple times a week, like three, four times a week late the last couple of weeks, and I feel bad he because like he looks like he just got paroled. You remember, awboys, my buddy's like covered in tattoos. He's like my size.
I think I remember him, but god, there's just so many people I've met, and you know, my memory is so squishy.
He was rocking with us when we went to Willow Creek the movie Oh the will.
Oh that guy, Okay, sure, yeah, yeah you've been.
Him a few other times at my house and stuff. But yeah, he's just super nice guy. But he just looks like I mean, he's got like tattoos on his head and shaved head and all. I mean, he looks he looks straight like prison gang guy. But you know he's not at all. But so we go walking up there, dude, like we'll be walking to the like, uh, women will see us and just turn around, like just start like jogging like they'll be walking. The'll turn around, like start
jogging fast the opposite direction. Like we feel back like we're ruining all these women's hikes out there. So today we come around the corners, these two beautiful like you know, like twenty two year old girls changing like getting dressed
on the on the trail walk. Like I was like, oh, well, like we're right on top of him already, so as we'll just go past and so like you if I like it's like in Humble and you'll come as crossing like nad once and while like swimming or at the beach or something, you know, like I'll walk up and like if I walk up all like some chicks are changing or naked and all, just like you know, clear my throat or cough and like kind of give a little nod and just turn around and wait, like give
them time to get whatever dressed or out of the way, whatever they want to do. And so it was like kind of like, well, we're right on top of them, and they were pretty much dressed. They're getting dressed. They're like pretty covered up, but they were looked all shocked and all like like, oh my god, there's people out here, like they couldn't believe it. We guys swimming because they're all wet when it was raining. But first of that,
they're all wet because it's raining. I'm like, now then they got towels and stuff like like the one chick's like putting on a bikini top whatever, and I'm like, are you guys swimming in that creek because it's like six to eighteen inches deep and it's like muddy and uh like like we're just cold plunged, and I'm like, oh, this this is toxic waste. Like this creek's been like a major toxics like cleanup spot for years, like I
want to might want a better you know. It's like right next to the mills, a bunch of logging right up the stream, like a quarter a half mile out. There's times of logging going on, and you can see where these guys had took in their their heavy equipment like the caterpillars. And just because that's what I mean, I used to log you, I've seen guys they just they don't bring the they don't bring the equipment into
the shop to change the oil. They just unscrew it and just dump the oil out there, you know, and then just change the filter and put in the plug and fill it back up. They don't take it in a change. It's like we just dosed two days ago we went hiking up there that they had changed the oil on the land. Two different lanes. They had changed the oil on these skidders and loaders and stuff, and
there was just oil dripping down everyone. Like those girls were swimming down on that or whatever, cold plunging in that.
I was just like, oh man, he felt to be young.
When we first walked out, I was like, well, this is like for like it it wasn't even like a tenth of a second that's all played out my mind about the tenth of a second, like, oh, there's two of us. We're too cool guys, too hot shakes like yeah, we get along great, like yeah, let's see what's up. And then like like it's like, oh no, no, we're just old creepy dews on the trail.
Yeah, the old creepy kind of scary guys on the trail. Right, it's hard to remember that you're not bad anymore, or we're not bad anymore. Perhaps, I don't know.
Well, it just takes like a like it's like that, it's like that thought to say that thought takes like several seconds, but that in my mind, it's like happens all I can less than a tenth of a second.
You know. I've spoken to a lot of elderly people and they say I feel the same, except my body doesn't, you know, Like I on the inside of my brain, I'm the same guy or Galla or whatever, but uh, you know, on the outside, you know, my body just doesn't work as well. So oh, to be old, to be young.
Yeah, I with created. On Halloween, we went to go see this dead cover bewnd there really really dude, they're really good, like act like some of the best, like they're like dark Star Orchestra level, and uh we went there and it was just funny watching like all the old hipnies like you're like god of Like they like they look like they're like some are using walkers and stuff. They're all those crazy hippie dances and stuff like just really slow and it was like, yeah, like they still
like I think it's like nineteen sixty eight. They're like, you know, dancing. They're like, we're.
Still cool, you know, like oh yeah, And of course they're all bummed out because Donna died this week, as you know, Donna gotcha.
Oh yeah, I just thought today as she died. I don't think everyone's bummed.
Everybody's but there has been. I mean, I guess we should probably take a few moments and talk about this. I mean, this is a Q and A episode just for the people who are listening. But we'll get around to that eventually. But there's a lot of other things to talk about, so maybe we'll kind of be under that direction here. But the Angel of Death has been visiting the Bigfoot community. I know, we should probably be painting blood above our doors or whatever. You have to
do to avoid this. But this is insane, the amount of bigfooters who have been passing away since Doctor Meldrum. He was the vanguard. He was he was pushing the envelope. He's the guy that did it first. He's he checked out way back in early September, September ninth. But I mean so that we talked about that on the podcast. Everybody knows that by now that doctor Meldrum has checked out.
We gave a good tip of the hat. Scott Violette of course, good friend and he's on the podcast before, and good researcher and just a nice general generally rad dude, super nice guy. I love the guy. Jane Goodall of course checked out. Now I didn't know Jane Goodall personally. We talked about her in the podcast, of course, but we kind of claimed her as our own. I think that's appropriate. We'll take what we can get, and we
had one of the best right there, Jane Goodall. You know I did mention my friend Jeff Wally, of course. I learned about Wally on the way back from a funeral of one of my best friends. Wally was a huge blow. He's a good friend of both of us. And then see that that's four just bigfooters. And then of course what was the next one? Was it Bill Green?
It was Fair and Lach and then Green.
Oh that's right, yeah, Farren and Baca of course doctor farren Bach, who did a pioneering work on possible sasquatch hair samples. He was involved in scookom cast stuff. And then the course Green, not John Green, but Bill Green, who a lot of I don't think a lot of new people would really know who John Green is or
I mean Bill Green, what was is? Of course a lot of new people may not know who Fahrenbach was, right, yeah, which is a cry in shame, because he was another one of the PhDs that was interested in the subject.
When Bigfoot first one on the internet. You knew who Bill Green was if you were on like ten years ago, fifteen years ago, Yeah you knew.
Yeah, yeah, exactly like if you're I guess an old timer. Now if you were aware of sasquatches in the early two thousands, which makes you an old timer, I guess, yeah, you knew who Bill Green was because he was everywhere. He was on all the forums he was on like he did like commenting on blogs all the time.
He was a regular on a podcast like one of the first podcasts.
Do you know which one?
Well? But mean four who wasn't prove it? He was on all the time. He was like a mainstak like host.
I don't remember host, but I do remember he would call in to every single blog talk radio show and he would always be in the chat. And so some of the early blog talk shows I was on, he would call in on. But everyone that I would listen to, they'd be like, oh, we're going to take a few calls from the chat, and it would always be we've got Bill Green calling in. And so, yeah, he was
very active in the online See. I think he had some kind of like a whether it was a newsletter or some kind of like a club like a mail in or write in club or communication or something of that nature. If I'm not mistaken. He was kind of a mysterious guy. I didn't know a whole lot about him, but everyone knew him and who he was.
Yeah, there's a character.
Before Facebook, it was basically you know, you know, the Bigfoot forums. It was kind of the dominant online resource for sasquatches, and they're still out there. Plugging away doing bigfoot forum stuff.
There. There was bigfoot forms there, there was a forum on cryptozoology dot com, and then there was the comment section of Cryptomundo that was about it.
Ye yeah, yeah. And of course now everybody and their mother has their own Facebook page and whatever else. But back in the day, if you were on any of those things, you know who Bill Green was. I always had good interactions with him. We would called him on the road because didn't he live in the northeast somewhere, Bob, what do you remember?
Connecticut?
Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, we called him on the road to see if he wanted to come to the town hall or do something like that.
Yeah, we invited in a couple with you. We invited in a Connecticut town hall in Jersey and then another one. We'd call him. He'd be all still because he lived in that home, so he couldn't really, he wasn't too much. I don't think he could drive or anything. He was always stoked to he was always in a good mood. And I was like, yeah, okay, let me know what's going on. I mean, know there's any sightings or anything new. Let me know.
You're very positive, very positive. Yeah, And yeah, just all these people, and you can't forget Frank. Oh my god, Yeah, but I knew I was missing one, says here a county. There were seven Frank Canischer died.
Jeez, can't even keep track.
Frank was researching some of the same areas I research. On a regular basis. We would share notes. We would like, Hey, look at this cast I got today. Oh really, where was that? And that guy is another one of these unsung heroes of Bigfoot Man. He was actually in the game since nineteen eighty six. I believe how was he when he passed like fifty seven or something.
Oh that's terrible.
Yeah, but yeah, Frank and Easter and then so let me seeing Frank's praises just for a few moments. I can't believe I forgot about that, but I knew I was missing one. Thank you, Thank you, Matt. I appreciate that. So everybody knows who Jim Hugh Cain is. I think he was a wildlife biologist here in Oregon. I think he lived up in Saint Helen's, Oregon on the river there and he would look into bigfoot stuff. He hit him and his partner Jack Jack. Please, Matt, help me
out Sullivan, Yeah, Jack Sullivan. Yeah. Jim Hukin and Jack Sullivan were like kind of partners in crime. I guess in a way that they would go out and investigate Bigfoot Stuffy. Jim Hukin being a while my biologists published several times in cryptozoology, you know the International Society Cryptozology newsletter there, and that the journals that they would produce.
He has.
You can look back and read several of his articles and he I guess Jim Huckin is probably most famous for a certain trackway that he and Jack Sullivan cast in I think November of nineteen eighty six, if I remember correctly, eighty seven. I think it was eighty six at the double check. But it turns out that that trackway was on Frank Kineister's property. Now Frank was a kid at the time. I think he was sixteen or something at the time, maybe seventeen or if he was sixteen,
that puts him about my age. He's only a year or two older than me.
So and.
Hugh Caen and those guys got about five or six casts in a row. I have copies of one or two of them. And actually Meldrum had a really good. Has a really good mold of one of them too, so I have that now too, which is kind of cool. But it turns out Frank cast a footprint at that site and it was his very very first footprint in
his career. But that set him on the course. It turns out that Frank actually had a role in reporting that trackway because Jack Sullivan was a teacher at Frank's middle school or high school that he taught typing and something else, you know, and and he would do these big foot you know, investigations, and Frank and he were kind of friends, you know, as a teacher and a
student sort of friend. And I think Frank may have reported at the Jack Sullivan and uh, and so they came out and checked it out, and they were around for a couple of days, like because they lived locally, and they would just keep coming out. They eventually cast a bunch of prints there, and uh, Frank cast one, and that really set Frank on the pathway that he was on until his death. He potentially might have cast more things than anyone potentially, but I don't know, because
Frank was an awe. I mean, I really liked him. I considered him a friend. I would call and talk to him and that sort of thing. But he was kind of an odd guy, so he was so excited and excited bull that he would talk and sort. He didn't think linearly was a thing, so he's hard to understand sometimes. I'm not sure exactly how many footprint and handprint casts that he got, but I know that some of the stuff that he got was really really good,
very very interesting. It's just sad to see another guy go like that because Frank had had so much left to do. I think stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. But were you starting to notice a thinning hair? Who me maybe a little a little hair left or a little thinning hair both. Well, I've got good news
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So doing que and improve, you have some stuff lined up, I do.
I have one that was specifically for you, so we'll open with it.
Cliff flank Steak, Matt, what is going on, gentlemen? This is Eric from Michigan. It has taken me about a year and a half to smash all your shows to finally catch up to you live, Bobo. I have a question for you. Well, first, I want to thank you. About two weeks ago, my daughter sent you a text. On this past Tuesday, I got your cameo message. It was awesome, totally stoked.
I love it.
I love you.
My question is for you, Bobo, about twenty nineteen, in parts of twenty twenty and I think twenty twenty one, you were making a movie or documentary, potentially both. I never caught the title and I don't know if it's still available for streaming. Gentlemen, Stay healthy, go sports.
And that's an interesting one.
And I put the link to Bobo's cameo in the show notes. I do remember that message came in and she was like, my dad is a huge fan of Bobo. Is there like some way that Bobo can send a message, and I was like, oh, yeah, here's the link, and so glad to hear that that all worked out.
Yeah, cool h Yeah, we're still held up on that one. We went over that already.
See since he said I don't know if it's still on streaming or not, you could have said, oh, you know what, you just missed it.
Well like those well, some of the ones we did, like the Robbie Canevil came out, and then Sam's almost done with his He's got the one we were doing that Bigfoot Encounters of the Fourth kind. Then we got, uh, this one where we did with Pete Travers where we did the sketching with some witnesses like Sarah from episode fifty five. I think it was the one that everyone was like, favorite witness we had on here for a lot of people. Yeah, that's that's basically done. That'll be
coming out soon. The biggest problem we had was using different cameras and then using What really killed us was some guys had MAX, some guys had PC and editing going back and using different Even the guys on PC were using different editing apps whatever programs and things were getting chewed up and not coming out properly, and it just and then we it was we were spending money reshooting stuff and we had we reshot some stuff, like we had a couple of trips, and it just it
just got so I just went through so much money, went through the budget. They went through all I went through all my money, and we still got some stuff to do. And there's some killer stuff there, but it's gonna it's gonna take some more.
So coming soon, not soon, coming eventually. Sometimes that's is the best that can be done well.
Once again, I will put the link to your cameo so if folks want to personalize message from Bobo, they can click the link in machine.
Notes if people love those, I'm going to buy Matt prot one for Christmas.
Last year, the New York Times are it was two years ago now it's like a year or two ago. The New York Times had a big feature on cameo and they they interviewed the CEO and he gave me as an example of the best deal on there, like because there's there's people like like they have your Q rating and like what you should charge based on like your whether all these little factors they have on popularity whatever, and like, dude, you should be charging one hundred bucks
per one, and I was. I was always just ten, fifteen, twenty, then I went to twenty five. Even I want to twenty five. We said I was still the best deal on like the best bargain value on their Bobo, the best bargain Well money they got charges one hundred. Yeah, yeah, sure does. And I think he gets it sometimes. Yeah.
Then I see I see other people that are like whatever, like another like lesser, like you know, maybe they were like on they had like one season, like six episodes of some show that was on like ten fifty years ago. Their charged on like seventy five fifty.
That just means they don't want to do it.
I don't know how much. I don't know how many thing.
Yeah, yeah, that's just it like you charge high enough that you don't have to do very many of them.
Yeah, I mean, I definitely I get that appeal. But it's just kind of it's a it's a good service for people, you know, like they they're happy with it, so it's a great way to get a present, you know, like because it gets on their phone, they got it forever. You know. It's like it's not just like signing something. They have something hang on their wallets like it's in their pocket like that. They you know, they're they can
show their friends like, you know, check this out. You know, they get a laugh or whatever.
Until they lose their phone in the woods.
I know.
We have an update on your phone.
No, dude, I still haven't even made it back out there, but.
You found time to hike in heavy girl country, you know, and watch them make sledge angels because there's not a plunge. It's not a cold plunge because it's six inches deep. Man, they're making sledge angels in the muck.
Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure we're not going to see them out there again, but you'll try.
All right, what do we hop onto the next voicemail?
Then?
Right, Hey guys, this is Kevin May's from Kentucky and a lot of John Green's reports people mentioned how sasquatch moves almost silently even through thick brush. Now, I've been bushwhacking a lot, and I know that I make a lot of noise going through dense vegetation. And I do know that there are some animals like owls and cats, we have special feathers or fur they can help them
stay quiet as they navigate their way through vegetation. Do you think it's feasible that sasquatch might have some sort of oily or textured hair that works the same way, kind of helping it slip through the woods without making a noise, unless, of course, it wants to make a noise. By the way, Cliff, I'll be sitting here in the Denny's bathroom waiting for a response.
Thanks, guys, Yeah, there's our good friend Kevin. Our listeners may remember that were oh, yeah, remember that, We're waiting my car, and I'd saying, where is this guy? He must be taking a dump and Denny's or whatever, and he wasn't. He was like walking back to the hotel room. And everybody thought that I was nuts because we weren't moving, and I thought I was waiting for somebody. So, yeah, Kevin Rad.
When I heard his voicemail come in, I didn't even listen to the whole thing. I was just like, oh, that's my buddy, Kevin, and I banked it. So I was actually about to make a joke and say sounds like that was recorded in the bathroom of Denny's. To cue your memory before I even say he had it in the voicemail, so Kudo's Kevin, Oh.
No, I had it.
I had the name, Yeah, Oily Hair. I don't think would yield. I don't think that would necessarily yield silence. I don't see how that would do it. I think I think that they're just they're just that good at what they do. I was actually talking to Chris Spencer just today about a sighting, the report that I took. There's been there's been a couple of things happened in bigfoot Land. We didn't really get to but at a
siding report came in the other day. It was a couple of years old, but it was in Chris Spencer's neighborhood, so I sent it to him and we're just kind of shooting the poop about some of the other stuff in that general vicinity. And one of the things I told him was about a biologist who saw one of these animals, the sassquatched there at the very edge of a clear cut as he was approaching the big timber. He was walking on a road and he saw the animal from the shoulders up and the clear cut. It
wasn't exactly a clear cut it was a regrowth. The trees were about six feet tall, so he was guessing this some thing was about eight feet tall. And he said that if he hadn't and he saw it run and ran up the hill, he said that if he had not put his eyes on it, he would have never known it was there. Even though it was like
thirty feet in front of him. It didn't make any noise, which is super interesting, of course, and how they do it, I don't really know, but I don't think it would necessarily have anything to do with oily hair, although I've been told that there are oily animals, and certainly the smudges and whatever else and the sea bomb that has been left behind would support that idea at least that they're probably pretty oily animals as soora gorillas, So it
makes perfect sense. But I don't think the oily hair would necessarily let them or you stop the noise of them going through the brush. I just think that they know how to navigate.
Perhaps, yeah, I would agree with that. It seems like most animals that have that sort of furtive lifestyle, whether they're ambush predators like tigers or something like that, a lot of their lifestyle depends on being undetectable, and so they evolution has created an animal that moves very very very quietly, unless, like Kevin point, unless it wants to, because man, it seems like they can be pretty loud
when they want to crash away. And how many times have we heard or especially heard witnesses described like, oh, it sounded like a truck or semi coming through the buldos so large and displacing so much vegetation and breaking things and breaking branches.
And you know what's funny, every time I've heard that, I went when I was able to go back and look, it never looks like a bulldozer went through, you know. It's like I think there's like a branch broke over here. Like it never looks as bad as it sounds.
Well, you can make a lot of noise just shaking live vegetation, you know, and make a big, big noise, and then there's no damage, no alteration, like it would be undetectable. But you know, if you grabbed saplings with either arm, you know, and just flung them about and it makes a big sound.
There's been a lot of reports coming in like this has been a you know, like the typical of the fall, Like just stuff just goes off in October, just September and October and October going to November. It's just always just that's when I got That's when I hear the most, by far, from all over the country.
I think they were on the property last night, really, I think. So it's hard to say, man, because it was raining pretty good. But I went out back to take a leak. And I went out there and I'm doing my business on the lawn or whatever, and that hillside right behind me, something big was in the trees right up in there, and it kind of it moved a bit, and then it kind of went up and then I lost it. But soon thereafter, like within like two minutes thereafter, I started hearing what I thought might
be knocks up on the hill. But I have to, I have to, you know, temper what I'm saying here, because it was raining pretty good, right and and it seemed like there were some of the noises. I know that I some of the noises that I initially thought might be knocks, I know were not because the further out on the lawn I went, I could triangulate the sound a little bit better and and they were coming from places where oh, that's that's water on a tarp or something like that or whatever it was. But a
couple of those noises up on the hill. I don't I don't know what would be making like noise like that noise up on the hill because there's nothing there to you know, Like what I was hearing that was kind of like that was coming from near the house where there was a piece of plastic and things were dripping and whatever hitting the bucket or whatever. It was kind of like like a drum. But those sort of noises coming off the hill, I mean, they were loud, man,
and they were pretty distant. They were yeah, you guys have both been to my house, I think, right. And and so like the top of the hill where it kind of levels off and goes into the farm lands, and there were two or three noises like that that kept me really wondering. It's like, man, are they here right now? You know, I don't know. I don't know.
So last night was a big maybe. But when I told Melissa about it, she goes, well, yeah, November, it is kind of when they show up, right, I thought, Oh, yeah, I guess that's true. We very often have some something happened in November this time of year or so, who knows, and they might have been around last night or might have just been you know, sounds fooling with the cliff's brain. I don't know.
Did you come in and tell Melissa there's.
Something on the hill.
Now?
I just stood on the art and screamed it. Identify yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, so I'm gonna I went walking up on the on the top of the property day looking for a prince. And you know that the ground's covered with those big leaf maple leaves right now, so it's pretty hard to find anything. But I had to find some bear. I found some lots of deer and that sort of stuff, and some things that like I don't know, but I didn't find anything that I would say, yeah, are probably
sasquatch prints. But I also am not so sure I went up high enough because there's that there's that stretch of land between the upper road and the edge of the cliffs that that I didn't go up into, and very few things do go I mean, nobody walks up there, so I probably need to go poke around in there when it stops raining again.
Is it usually up there on the hill like that, in that spot.
There's a couple of different spots that we've heard those things before. Yeah, but we've heard them up in there before for sure, in that little stretch above that top road. But I've also heard him below in the in the in the in the canyon, and Melissa's heard them several times over there on the other side of the orchard.
Just go hamm it camp up there alone.
Yeah. Yeah, Well I've been up there at night alone for uh good stretches of time, and the mountain beavers are really loud up there, oddly enough, and you can hear like chewing and doing stuff, and we're just pretty crazy up in there. It's a lot louder than I thought it was going to be.
Nice.
Yeah, And she's also heard whoops also from the east as well, up in in those hills too, Like she said, I thought it was you, but you're out of town, you know anyway. Yeah, so maybe they're around, I don't know. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right back after these messages.
Well, here is the next voice Mounts. This is a definitional question.
Hey, Clan Hey, what's so prou it? This is great Generals and Spartanburg's South Carolina. I just wanted to ask a quick question. And by the way, I love the podcast and find the Big the Ship. I couldn't wait to watch it every week. But anyway, what things a trackway a trackway?
Is it? How many prints or fate in distance or what? Just wonder? Thanks a lot, keep up the good works. Great question.
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, i'd say minimum is two. Otherwise it's just a track Yeah, trackway, I mean, I would say minimum of two, but I think a good solid trackway would have three to five or more.
That's what I was gonna say. It's gotta be more because then you'd say there's prints, Like if there's two, you'd say that there are some prints, there's maybe two or three. There's a tracker. I'd say it's gotta be like, yeah, like four, five, five or more.
Yeah, i'd say trackway is probably I might go at least three for a trackway. Otherwise it's just track tracks.
Trackway well, then you can, but I mean we follow that stuff a lot of times. We're like, you're pretty sure this is where it step next? And like it's a key. Like it's like it seems like that's the obvious way it went, that you don't see actual like Prince that you can discertainly make out this this and that, like you don't tell us heal that, like there'll just be disturbances like in the leaf litter or whatever.
Yeah, I might say, uh, I think for my personal definition, I would say three tracks, and they don't have to be consecutive because you can usually like you said, but you can usually tell where they stepped. There's you know, something's pushed down, or something's broken, or there's some disturbance in the ground. And I wouldn't say a disturbance in
the ground is necessarily a track. But I think if you have a like three tracks and some marks in between, or even no marks in between for little while, I think that would for me at least, that would constitute a track way. But you know that's not always possible. I got a question somebody wrote me at the museum this past week and asked me the whole barrage of questions really, but one of the things he asked was, why don't you just follow them? Why don't you just
follow the tracks? Until until you catch them or you know. Yah, Cliff, Yeah, I know. It's like, well, man, you don't. I'm just not that good of a tracker. I guess somebody could.
You know, if you were a good enough tracker, you could backtrack it back to where it was born. One of those guys, one of the big guys. I won't call him out publicly, but it was a claim he made publicly, but said that, you know, if he had enough time, he could take any deer track and track it back to where it was born.
Seems pretty boastful.
Yeah, I would think, you know, track way indicates that you're able to discern which way it was heading, So yeah, I think you'd need multiple tracks that showed you a direction of travel, which way it was heading, et cetera. So yeah, if you just had two prints, it could just be standing still to like side by side prints. So I would agree with Cliff's definition, you have multiple tracks that show a direction and a travel route.
Should we hop onto the next question?
Then let's do it. This is the last of the submitted voicemails, and then we'll go to the written questions.
Do it high, Cliff, Bobo, ma Is Scott calling from the United Kingdom. My question is, have you ever considered using AI to predict the likely location of big foots based on known citing data. By inputting enough information into systems such as chat GPT, it should be able to provide potential research spots to stake out love the podcast Keep It Squatchy.
I'd put money Maker over AI.
Yeah, I've seen too many errors come out of AI to put any faith in that sort of thing. It'll give you an answer like it knew, it knew what it was talking about, But I don't know if I would trust it because I've seen, you know, I've seen some stuff that was obviously written by AI chock full of errors about things like the Patterson Gimlin film or
something like that. You know, it's like, I know that's not real, but they say it with such authority that most people who didn't know it was real or are correct would would not doubt it. So I wouldn't do that with AI at all. But I also have different resources and everybody else. I know some of the best bigfooters around we have I have direct access to like Terrestrial, for example, who we had in the podcast a couple
of months ago. I don't think I would need to look at the AI stuff, and maybe maybe it could points in the right direction, but I would still you know, it's like everything else with AI, especially at this point in the game. You know, you gotta double check to see if it even makes sense.
Well, we know where they're are. I mean, we find them all the time. It doesn't mean you're gonna doesn't gonna change anything. It's like you still aren't gonna probably see him, like you might have had one at your house last night. You know, it's like, well, what did that do? Yeah?
Nothing.
What we're using is not necessarily artificial intelligence. These are large language models. They're basically based on the statistical relationships between words and the web of associations around a given word or a set of words, or a phrase or a sentence or a paragraph, et cetera. So they're not thinking,
they're not predicting things based on logic and reason. They're they're calculating the statistical relationship between words at the end of the day, and so they're still not going to be like great predict tools for assessing wildlife behavior, etc. Although they're very good at stringing together like a simulacrum of a statement. It will put together those words of these different arrangements, but it's still not going to be words of wisdom as much as they are words that
are statistically likely to co occur. I mean, I think AI will get to the point where I know there's like deep thinking and deep reasoning, et cetera, et cetera. So there's different models now that are getting closer and closer to approximating that before deep research models. But for the most part, yeah, there's still just large language models that are based on these relationships and like a web of association around a word or a concept or a phrase.
We know who'd be a good person to ask about this is a Derby or cut. Yeah, he's got a couple of projects that are utilizing AI to various degrees, and he's somewhat of an expert in all this sort of stuff, and he certainly works with experts. And I happen to have had a conversation right before we went on the air with Darby. I'm going to be zooming into one of his class is next week that he teaches over at North Carolina State University, and talking about
some big foot stuff with him. But and I said, well, when you're gonna come on the podcast again, Darbis and you know, and he goes, he's been sick the last couple of weeks, but he is just about out of it, and he says he has some time next week, so we might be able to get Derby on at least for the interview as early as next week. And that would be an excellent question to ask Derby.
Cool indeed, but that was a good question, So thank you for that, Scott. And let me grab some written submissions for you.
Okay, Bobs, you can have the first one, by the way, all right.
This one comes from Clifford Rappola Clinton, Clinton, Clinton Roppolo.
But you're always on my mind too, Bobo.
How do your researchers determine the estimated population of Bigfoot? So they use reported sightings? If so, how can false reporting affect these numbers? Thanks for your time and keep it squathy, yah. This has been a big point of contention amongst researchers, is estimating the population, because so we will put it really hot low and other people put it really high. Cliff stuff that whole I mean, like,
who was it Krafts can out at first? I guess about the three hundred bears or one hundred bears to one sasquatch. And I don't know if I buy all that. I think there's got to be at least ten thousand in North America, if not more.
Then I think that doesn't that put it at ten one hundred to one, because like.
There's roughly six hundred thousand black bears in North America. That's the like oblique rough.
Estimate, okay, And that would put it six thousand sasquatches if it is one hundred to one. Now, doctor Krantz, of course, to my knowledge, he's the first person to put into print a guess where there's one hundred and one bears approximately. And I think that Krantz used ecological information for that, like how much food the land could produce, and it just kind of makes sense. And I think that's for a real rough number. I think that's reasonable.
He said that there might be He put the estimated at about two thousand individual sasquatches in the Pacific Northwest, but he did comment in his book that Bob Titmas would suggest there's probably twice that, maybe four thousand in the Pacific Northwest, and Krantz does say he might be right. Don't know. There's very little information on which to actually base this.
Now.
I don't know much about ecology, so I kind of just take the idea of like one hundred and one sounds reasonable because people smarter than me think that Doctor Meldrim thought maybe one hundred and fifty to two hundred bear for everyone sasquatch. But I used to think that there were a lot more sasquatches because I ran into him a few times and it was pretty convinced I
was right and all this other stuff. But at the end of the day, what really toned down and made me guess the numbers more conservatively is by becoming familiar with the footprint data. As it turns out that a lot of the areas where multiple footprints have been discovered and cast, they seem to represent the same individual sasquatches, So that kind of gives at least a little bit of insight, a little bit of a window, though that window might be fogged up pretty good into how many
sasquatches inhabit a certain area. Off the top of my head, the Bluff Creek region from fifty eight to about sixty seven when the film was gotten. I think that represents one pretty reasonable data set. A good number of casts came out of there, and you're probably looking at three individuals in that area. One of those individuals might have been down in high id Palm with another medium sized individual,
probably a female. That's interesting, Okay, so maybe that sheds some light into social structure and how they overlap or something.
If you look at the Blue Mountain evidence. I'm still becoming more familiar with that all the time, now that I have a vast majority of the original cast in my possession, and I'm discovering that there's a maybe four individuals five into That's one of the problems I'm going to try to get at this winter time is really counting how many individuals do I think I have there? I think five off the top of my head, and that's from eighty two to about year two thousand a
little less. We have the Tom Shay information from northern Kentucky. We have the work that I've been doing out in my research spots. I have three research spots. One has yielded almost no footprints, have like three footprints over the last five or six years. But another spot has yielded probably two dozen footprints. Are more then they seem to represent three individuals in that area, So anyway you smell
what I'm stepping in here. So we don't have a lot of data on which to base these kinds of guesses. But I think that by going out and gathering more footprint evidence, I think that we can just have a little bit more insight into the numbers, the territory, the range, the social structure, and so much more about these animals. But then I probably want to collaborate with an ecologist who understands that side of things a lot better than I do, because that's something I know almost nothing about.
But how do we even start to get a grasp on the ecology of a sasquatch, you know, and his food needs and where it's going and stuff. I guess the only way to do it is doing what we're doing, getting prints and seeing what that information that yields.
Yeah. That guy open in Canada that has, you know, spoken to government officials, he says are aware of it. Say that between not counting BC, but from Alberta to Ontario, they there's six thousand, which seems reasonable.
Canada is a big place, man, and there's a lot of forest.
Yeah, yeah, I think a safe number for continent wide is five to ten thousand. It might be a lot more than that, but five to ten thousand seems like a reasonable guess.
I think it's it's other five is not even close. I think ten's close, and it could be very well could be more than that.
Even Yeah, there's a lot of empty land up there in Canada.
It'll be it'll be this. These are one of those things. I just can't wait to find out what the what the real deal is on it.
Yeah, it's going to help a lot, especially once DNA evidence is obtained. Because the DNA evidence I imagine, I mean, I'm guessing here again, good question for Darby. Had to get that gun quick. We could probably see relationships between the various individuals, and that might give us some more insight into how, you know, how far the gene pool has spread, so to speak, you know, and that would probably give some light at least on the population number.
Oh so interesting.
Yeah, I can't wait.
I think, you know, this would be a good question for Derby. But I think if you had a fully sequenced genome from an individual in let's say, BC and one in Georgia or Florida, because those are pretty far apart that if you had the full genome sequence for both of those individuals, you could tell how many generations
had passed. But like the divergence between those two, you know, like assuming that the progenitor population would be closer to the Northwest if they came from Asia, how many generations it took to spread, you know, across the what's now the United States and down to the southeast. So yeah, you'd be able to tell probably a good bit about population just from those two data points.
Yeah, would thinks. So it makes a lot of sense, right indeed, But we will have to ask Darby, Oh Darby, where art thou stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages.
But here is the next question for you, a chance for Cliff to deliver some good news.
This question comes from Mike Carey. Not that we need any more entertainment and knowledge outside of y'all, but have you thought about an episode where your ladies chime in with stories with the Bigfooter, their thoughts on the topic, et cetera.
Tell them the good news.
We've done it.
The good news is that we do that already every fourth or every Valentine's Day? And is it for members only? Is for everybody?
Man?
I can't remember there for the pigeons, we've done that for two Valentine's Days in a row and they're very popular episodes, very well received, and so that's that's the place to find those. We call them the significant others. So there's the Significant Others Part one and two and then three will be coming up in Valentine's Day of twenty twenty six.
I don't think it's so great.
You get a lot of insight into Bobo and his cooking habits, his particular recipes. I don't even want to spoil it here because but you definitely want to know about pasta al Bobo.
That's good.
You know, maybe maybe that'd be an opportunity for us to run a rerun and take a week off someday and we put that on the regular episode on run Valentine's Day.
Yeah, maybe take the twenty twenty four one. Yeah, throw it out for the main listeners. Yeah we will. I'll make a note of that here. We'll do that for the Valentine's season for twenty twenty six.
Yeah, give a little treat for the people who either can't afford or don't care enough to join the Pigeon hood.
But they are good episodes. They're very popular, and the entirety of the episodes for Mike and for all the other listeners if you're not Pigeons, the whole episode is like, we just asked the members what questions they have for the significant others, and they post them and we pitch them to the ladies. So it's just all member questions, so we're not driving the conversation. We're just sitting there and cringing as we're being described to the pigeons accurately.
Yeah, Buba's the only one who really hates that episode.
But they turned out great. They were super funny. Bobo was laughing, Buba had a lot of great one liners. They were they were very positive.
I don't know see that happening this year.
Are you in the doghouse or should I say the cat house the cadio the CaTiO, right, But I thought that would be good for Mike to know as well as any other regular listeners that those episodes do exist, and yeah, find them at the link in the show notes.
Yeah, and you can go back and listen to all of the previous members episodes. I'd say, join for a month and just do nothing but sit next to the podcast machine and listen and get caught up.
There are a great mini.
Quit your job, isolate yourself in a room and listen to all how many episodes? How many member episodes? Now, am met?
Oh?
Got two hundred? We've done a lot.
That is for sure, more than you can shake a stick at.
So there is a familiar name for bobo. Oh.
Let's see who we got. Susan Fenner check, Hello, Susanne, one of our most loyal pigeons. Cucku coo. Haven't even heard of someone seeing a sasquatch hit a tree to make a knock You three are my heroes. Well, thank you, and yeah, I've talked. I've never seen it, but I've talked to several people that have seen. Yeah, that have seen them. To them, So they were trying to knock raccoons out of trees, like separate. These are both on
the East coast. So they saw a big foot with a big branch bashing a tree in the tree like shaking violently, and a raccoon was getting shook up real better than the raccoon eventually just jumped out and the squash right over and snatched it.
There's a great report from Colorado from an elk hunter who claimed to have seen one bashing a tree with a very big branch, almost like a small log So I'll find that BFRO report and put that link in the show notes.
And I think I've heard one or two. I think two over the years. They heard the Knox they win the direction, and I remember one guy saw the sasquatch holding the stick or something. And I might have heard one of those raccoon ones. Oddly enough, I remember something. Maybe I was with Bobo when the story.
Was Yeah, yeah, we heard that it was something like a cat or something like a bob cat on top of a tree, just the bottom of the trees, just like bam bam, I'm bam yeah.
And I think the guy came around through the woods or whatever, and that there was a sasquatch, you know, with the tree and holding a logos or something like that. And of course we heard that the cat and the banging noise up at Basin Golds at one time with the ams too. Remember that he's.
Got that recorded. I've been telling him for years to find out recording, but he never found it. I thought for sure I was going to see when that morning, because I took off. I just I just got up and ran. I went around the went down this one crik and then came around the draw and I was and it stopped maybe five things before I crested the hill, and I had my camcorder rolling. It was like some running up. It stopped and there was just nothing there. I didn't see anything.
Yeah, yeah, well you think you get There's only two more written submissions. If you guys want to tackle those.
Let's do it, okay. This one comes from Chris Green. Greetings, gentlemen, coo coo, I am interested in purchasing one of Cliff's footprint cast duplicates. Which one do you suggest? Which one is most impressive as far as size or detail? Thanks guys, I love the show here for well. Grace Harbor. Yeah, Grace Harbor. I don't sell the Hereford cast because I don't have Dennis's permission.
I mean I met Grace Harbor.
Yeah, yeah, I do need to write Dennis though, and I kind of know him. He was gracious enough to offer me an afternoon of interviews with him. Didn't we play that on the podcast too.
Mat That was on the members only show. So if people want to hear that interview, if they become a member of the Honorary Pigeons, they'll get that as well.
Very good. Yeah, so yeah, I needed to reach out to Dennis. But anyway, I do have another cast that I have rights to sell from that same trackway. But I don't know, man, I mean, choosing one cast is really hard. People ask me, what's your favorite cast?
Yeah, but for size and detail, man, like the Grace Harbor trackway. You know, that's a bigfoot and they're very detailed prints because that's it was pretty perfect and they were expertly cast. That's kind of hard to beat that.
Yeah, that's the best one.
It is, But I mean you're you're talking to a kind of a cast nerd, you know it is. That's a fifteen inch track, so that's a little bit bigger. But you know, wrinkle Foot, Wrinklefoot is a fourteen inch track. And now that I have the originals right and I also have I think I think Krantz made the mold, but I could be wrong, but it definitely krants are
meldrum silastic mold, and these silastic molds are awesome. I make my molds out of latex, but selastic is just an amazing substance and the details are astonishing in these casts. So now on the NABC, they're online right now, you can go buy them right now. The NABC is offering first generation casts, first generation duplicates of the wrinkle Foot cast, and they are ninety percent, actually more than that, ninety
eight ninety nine percent identical to the originals. It's ridiculous how much detailed these particular molds have because the Wrinkles that I was selling before the rinkle When I say wrinkles, I mean wrinkle Foot. It's what we kind of nicknamed this individual who was very, very present in the data set from about eighty to ninety ish ninety one. Maybe somewhere in there, the wrinkle Foot individual that like the previous copies that I had that I made molds of,
it's night and day. It's just night and day. There's no comparison. You could see some of the skin detail and stuff like that on the old ones, but the new ones are spectacular. There's a lot of water striations on them, but there's also dramatical ethics in these things. And in fact, that's something I was doing today too. I was perusing some of the some of the Freeman stuff, and I was particularly looking at some casts from November third,
nineteen eighty seven. There was a trackway discovered. I think this one is on Indian Ridge. It could be wrong, which is right, just shy a Tiger Canyon in that general area. But I think about five footprints were obtained at this at this particular site, at this particular trackway, and four of them have very clear domaticglyphics, and the fifth one also has it, but they're faint. It's ridiculous that the stuff that is in this data set is astonishing.
And I will say that despite Rover Krantz's book and doctor Meldrum's book Singing the Praises of the Blue Mountain evidence both times, in my opinion it falls short of what is actually worthwhile singing the Praises of because the Blue Mountain stuff is astonishing, and in fact, that November third, nineteen eighty seven trackway is Wrinklefoot. It's that same animal, and it's just astonishing, it really is. But I don't know. So, Yeah, Chris,
I'm sorry. I started to thinking about casts, and you know, when I started thinking about cast my mouth is open. There there's a vomit of information coming out. But I will say that Gray's Harbor is a great cast. But when people say what's your favorite cast? Cli if I my response is which one of your kids is your favorite?
Huh?
Well, I can put links to both of those casts from the NABC store in the show notes, So Chris, if you want to click them both and make a decision or maybe order both, but I'll make sure that those links are in the show notes so that listeners can see what we're talking about as well. So here is the last question, and it's a fun one to end on since it's a little different.
See Francis Brown, what was your first concert? Mine was Kansas in nineteen seventy five for the Mask Store.
Francis, in an earlier email, also told me that he saw Queen on the Game tour at the Philly Spectrum, which is pretty badass. So what was it, Bobs? What was the very first one?
I guess Kiss Destroyer?
They okay, they were the headliner, but did somebody open?
I don't remember how old were you?
I think I was ten or eleven.
It's crazy.
My friend went for a buddy's birthday president. Yeah, and then I seen saw John Denver with another friend's parents took us. I got to get tag along because like the guy's sister couldn't go, so I tagged along. And then the first gig I saw that was like not like one of those, but like like when I saw like with my like I didn't go with the parent was Black Flag at Pollywog Park after a little league game. We had a little league game and then Black Flag
was playing on the either side of the park. We went over there and watched a riot break out. John Denver wasn't too wasn't too exciting, but he was cool.
I just did a quick search Bobs and I said, who opened for Kiss and Destroyer to already get? And the answer was Bob Seeger and the Silver Bullet Band was the most frequent opening act for Kiss on the Destroyer tour, appearing on many dates in nineteen seventy six, although other bands like Ted Nugent, Montrose, Jay Giles, Point Blank, and Cheap Trick also opened for some shows.
Yeah, honestly don't remember that.
None of those ring a bell for you.
No we might we might not even have we might not even have got there in time for the opener.
All of those make sense to me, except for Bob Seeker. That's a weird bill. What about you, Cliff? Who was the first concert you saw? Oh?
I went with my brother to the Hollywood Palladium and the Romantics.
Yeah, classic, Yeah.
And the opener was Wang Chun Oh classic, that's awesome. It was pretty awesome. It was pretty awesome. And then just two weeks later, three like a month, less than a month, I think it was only two weeks later. My second concert was still one of my favorite bands ever, Sparks at the Greek Theater, and this strange unknown band called the Red Hot Chili Peppers opened up for them, and the Chili Peppers were like booed, nobody knew what to do with those guys, crazy, totally funny. It was
like eighty four. And then I caught the bug and started going to a lot of concerts. At the time. Of course, I couldn't drive at the time, so it didn't help me, you know, but right, and.
You didn't know how to are now.
My brother, like my brother at that time, loved to go see live bands and he still does. He goes some more shows than most anybody I know, but yeah, and so he would take me to places if he didn't have his friends going or something. I hadn't next to take it.
Yeah.
The first show I saw was a nine nine X. The big rock radio station in Atlanta used to do a one day festival called Big Day Out, and so the first concert I ever went to was a Big Day Out in ninety seven. So it was like Local h Mighty Mighty, Boss Tones, the Offspring, and food Fighters with the headliner.
Oh that'd be fun.
Oh, it was great. It was. I was a huge food Fighters fan, especially those first three records, So it was on the tour of that second record of There It's the Color in the Shape, and it was amazing. It was great see all those bands in one place. Super cool.
I saw food Fighters very first concert they played up here and Humble they did the Blues Bar, this little dive bar in Arcada. I saw Pat Smeir at the Burrito Shop and I was like, dude, wait, Pat. He's like yeah, Like, oh dude, what are you doing up here? And he's like, I'm playing with Grol and we're gonna play you know, we're playing a show. Don't don't tell him. It's a secret show. And I called a couple of people and other people started like other people started hearing
about it, and it got packed fast. But it was rad. It was yeah, seeing the Foods do their first live concert.
I remember you told me about that, and I guess there's I don't know if there's video of it, but there's definitely articles about it online about that being the very first show. Because I always wondered if you ever ran into Pat Smeir, I almost asked you. We had Sean Parker on the other day and on the members episode he was talking about Howard the Duck and it reminded me because Pat Smear is in that movie.
Oh it is.
Yeah, he's like a teenager or something like that.
That is funny.
You know.
I came in the night after I was doing some cast stuff and Melissa was watching Was it Terrifier three? You know either of you know that movie? Nope, No, it's it's that Uh, it's that clown that has black and white makeup and he's kind of the frontman of the the of the gig, you know, like Freddie cru
would beat or something. So and then it's basically gore porn is what it is, and just like over the top gore and it's not necessarily overtly sexuals and not that kind of porn or whatever, but it's like gory to the extreme for the sake of being extreme gore. And they're kind of funny at the same time or whatever. And Bryce Johnson was in it. Oh really, yeah, Bryce Johnson was a play played a part. Of course. Then everybody knows him. He's one of the folks on Expedition Bigfoot.
But yeah, he's an actor, of course, and that's what he does for a living. And he was in that movie. And she goes, oh, look at that. And of course he'll be at Crypticon in a couple of weeks here, so I get to get to ask him about doing that.
So is it forru indeed? Should we go answer questions for the pigeons?
Coo?
I'll take that as a yes.
Yeah, all right, folks. That's another Q and A for the month of November. Thanks for tuning in. If you liked it, hit like hit Share, I give us a five star review. Please we appreciate it. And so until next week, y'all keep it Squatchy.
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond.