Ep. 332 - A Tribute to Dr. Jeff Meldrum

good friend of doctor Jeff Meltrum. He stayed at my house a number of times, and he loved my dog, you love my wife, and like it just that's a good good friend. We're all very fortunate to have had

Jeff in our life in any way at all. But I think that the focus here isn't it shouldn't really be on what we've lost, but rather than what we've gained, you know, rather what we've gained here, because the bigfoot field would be very, very different if Jeff had never existed at all, and so many of the things that

we just take for granted nowadays are because of Jef. Essentially, we can look back and it's very easy to tell, like what Jeff has given us as a community, at least academically, shall I say, you know that what he's given us personally, and you know, the smiles, the jokes, the you know, the star Trek trivia, whatever else that you know from Jeff is yours and subjective and personal.

But we have kind of a timeline marker, a calibration marker, what we knew or thought about sasquatches before Jeff showed up on the scene. And that is, of course, doctor Grover Krantz's book Big Footprints, which is the first edition, and I want to specifically say the first edition, not Bigfoot Sasquatch Evidence, which is pretty much the same book with some addendums in it, you know, with some pendicies, I guess editions because in nineteen ninety two, when doctor

Krantz published Big foot Prints, he was the guy. He was the scientist who had studied this subject for years and years and years, and he published pretty much what he thought of the thought or knew at the time. But when he did the second edition, and I'm afraid I don't have off the top of my head the date of the second edition versus the first, but one of those appendices, one of those additions that he added to his book was the arrival of doctor Meldrum on

the scene. You can look at what Krantz wrote and then compare it to what doctor Meldrum wrote, and also really compared to what we all know and take for granted at this moment, in that kind of gauges how much doctor Meldrum has added to the field. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I might struggle with words a little bit sometimes during this podcast because I don't see how his contribution it might even be the sing his participation in the subject might be the single most important

thing that's ever happened. I'd say so, Yeah, on par with the PG film itself, or the nineteen fifty eight Jerry Crew Footprints or anything else for that matter.

his stats. I mean, Bennanaga was great, and he was, you know, a serious researcher and he made contributions, but Jeff was like, I mean, he was just like a like another level on a discovering things. Yeah.

things that sasquatches have bitten or chewed, right. You know, within any discipline, you have many sub disciplines and these sort of laser focused kind of specialists, and so generally he was a physical or biological anthropologist and an anatomous but his specialty was, you know, bipedal locomotion and the evolution thereof, and specifically the anatomy of feet in this suite of adaptations. And so the biggest body of existing

Sasquatch evidence consists of footprints. And so there really was no one better suited to tackle this subject than he was as a singular figure.

behind the metatarsals. He didn't do any of that. And it's not because he didn't he wasn't aware of the words, or he didn't understand the concept or anything like that. It's really because Krantz is more of a bone guy in general. He was osteologist or something like that. If I remember correctly, that specialty in physical anthropology, So bones in general were kind of his gig from what I understand, and I've never met Krantz. Of course, he passed away

before I had a chance to connect with him. Unfortunately. Jeff's gig was was anatomy and physiology and the anatomy of the primate foot and the adaptations for bipedalism. So it took Jeff to even recognize. It took someone with the eyes to see, as I often say, what we're looking at in sasquatch footprints. And of course the greatest example of this is the famous photograph from the Patterson

Gimblin film site by Lyle Labberty. You know of that very very famous print with the mid tarsal pressure ridge

right behind it. If you notice on that picture there's a stick on the left hand side sticking into the ground, and everybody kind of assumed, assumed for years, decades, literally decades, that that stick was underneath that ridge, and that's why that ridge was there, because the sasquatch stepped on the stick and it didn't push down, and that ridge is actually what made that pressure ridge what we now know

is a pressure ridge. You can just look at the photograph and it doesn't line up exactly, but that's what people thought. That was the best guess. Now, Krantz probably could have figured that out, but it took someone with a specialty in sasquad or an eight feet in general to do so. And that's what Jeff did. I think he published it somewhere around the year two thousand. I'd

have to double check here. I'll see if I can pull that up, but he basically published it and said, hey, guys, that's what that is, and that also explains all these other marks in the foot as well. And you can see that same feature in so many of the other footprints, footprint photographs and footprint casts. And it was in that one thing alone, which I would say ninety percent of big foot nerds or officionados or fans or researchers know about.

I mean, we went from nineteen sixty seven to about the year two thousand before we knew what we were looking at. And that one thing is because of doctor Meldrum, you know, and so many of the other givens of what we think we know about suasquatches today also come from him. But that's that's probably one of his major contributions right there. And I want to point out major contributions because there were so many minor ones.

you know. You you see that same kind of foot structure and the god the Australiopithoscene. And uh, I mean like everyone everyone used him, and he helped us may look less crazy to other people, you know, because this academic qualified guy was saying these things and showing and giving examples and showing how how it works. It was he helped everybody. He helped everybody out. You know.

the scene, and so it looks like a pretty flat sort of two D object. But then he was able to examine the actual cast and there's the mid tarsal pressure ridge right there, going back to fifty eight. But so for him to show that this feature is present in these tracks and that it would only be later that Lucy would be discovered Australlio Pithecus a Forendus and then the lay Totally tracks, you know, the Australopithosen tracks that you're referring to many years after the Patterson film.

I think Lucy was officially discovered at least presented to the world in either seventy three or seventy four, and then the laya Totally tracks shortly thereafter, if I'm not mistaken, but around that same timeframe. And so for him to put into context, like how is it that you know, if these were hoaxed that people could include a feature based on fossils that hadn't been unearthed yet to understand that an animal like this would have this physical adaptation

to that environment. That's a crucial component of the evolution of bipedalism. And for him to teach us all about that through numerous podcasts and documentaries to where just like Bobo said, someone could be sitting at a campfire or a bar and articulate that and show that, well, you know, this is pretty compelling evidence. And I know Meldren would often say like, if there is a smoking gun thus far, it's that, And he taught us all that.

was crouching next to. And when doctor Meldrum met him for the first time through a translator, because the gentleman didn't speak any English. He had he showed doctor Meldrum the cast that he had made in China of the Ya wren, and that that mid tarsal pressure ridge was right there. It was right there, even to the point where there was a there's this like this heart shape, like this double bump sort of feature and in between two of the bones that are make up that jumble

of bones right underneath the ankle. And uh, that same feature was in the Yareen cast. And then like Jeff got really excited, of course, and then he pulled out the Patterson Gimlin cast, the one that I mentioned earlier that Lyle Laberty had photographed, and they compared the two and it was just spot on, spot on, including that even that little double bump heart shape feature in the print. You can see that same feature in the Patterson Gimlin cast as well. And again that's that's a function of

two of the couple of bones. I'd have to go back and double check, because unlike Jeff, I don't know all the bones in the ankle area. Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to up my game though, because Jeff is now gone,

I can't rely on him anymore. And you know, it's also of interest about these two castle one from China and the one I think was from the nineties and the one from northern California, is that that feature of the footprint is made by the push off and downwards and backwards motion where the metatarsals end, you know, the back end of the metatarsals, so the bones looked up and that thing pushes down and back and raises that

mount of dirt there. It was at the same place proportionally in the foot, which is of great significance because the bones in a Sasquatch foot are not proportionally similar to humans. You know that they are different. The metatarsals have been shortened, the ankle segment or the heel segment have been lengthened. The ankles move forward on the foot, and you can tell that by certain markers in the foot.

So the fact that the Sasquatch footprint from the sixty seven matched this other foot from China in the ninety nineties or whatever it was, is really stunning. Is very very stunning. Where you have the same flexible foot feature showing the same anatomical signatures in the same place proportionally in the foot like that is a smoking gun, and that cannot be I mean, I don't know that they I'm going to say it can't be ignored, but clearly

most scientists are kind of ignoring that. But that is an astounding, astounding congruence between two very diverse pieces of

evidence from different times and places and literally continents. And you know what's so fascinating about this is is and one of the final things that I remember doctor Meldrum telling me about in this particular story when he visited Chanl, China and met this gentleman, is through the translator, you know, after you know, the excitement of comparing the two footprint casts was over and they saw the congruency and they really felt they like, oh, there's something this is so interesting.

Through the translator, the ranger in China asked doctor Meldrim, so, do you have anything like the wild man in America? He had never heard of bigfoot or sasquatch never, but yet he had a footprint that if you would have just picked it up and shown it to anybody with the eyes to see, you know, doctor Meldrim, or even me or somebody, they go, oh, yeah, that's a sasquatch. Footprint and here's why. That is a huge congruence. And

if there ever is a smoking gun, that's it. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. But were you starting to notice a thinning hair? Who me maybe a little a little hair left or a little thinning hair both, Well, I've got good news for you. Bobo Hymns offers access to the prescription treatments for regrowing hair and as little as three to six months, so you can see a fuller head of hair like Bobo in the old days by fall.

restrictions and important safety information. And you know what else that brought to mind was that another I say early, I mean Meldrim had already been involved for a number of years by this point, but early for me is that kind of mid two thousands point where Jeff had started to do the three D scans of the track collection that he had amassed thus far, and that there was that interactive thing on ISU's website where you could move the three D scans in sort of like digital space,

and we will you know, we'll talk about this later, but I'm going to put together a repository of links for listeners to check out. But one of the slides that he used in presentations often as the consequence of those scans, was showing you know, all those Tipmus casts that we've seen photographs of you. I mean, you guys have been lucky enough to see the actual cast, but for the rest of us, you know, reading books or

watching documentaries, we only see those two D photos. But for him to take those ten consecutive casts that Tipmas took at the Patterson site, lay them essentially on their sides in digital space, to see the midfoot flexibility expressed to varying degrees in every single footfall, you know, with these degrees of difference, some more exaggerated than others. But that, to me is such a remarkable thing to show people, because you know, when I first saw him do it

in presentations, it was powerful. And then he released that slide and various slides with those scans and other papers, and so you know, I've shown those two people, because most folks just see the two D photographs and they think about that sort of two D look that the two tracks for example, that Roger and Bob cast the most perfect ones that they do look kind of flat, you know, but then to show no, actually, this midfoot flexibility is present in every single one of those tracks

and two varying degrees which a carve stomper cannot accomplish. And so that whole project of his and what came out of it, I think was a major contribution too. And that's still early days for Jeff.

when I went out to visit doctor Meldrum. It took a number of footprints that I had cast and brought them down to the lab and it was a long, grueling process. I mean, it probably took fifteen minutes for each one cast, I'm guessing, And of course it's much higher resolution than the stuff we have on our phones. It still is good technology, but it's gone so much

further at this moment. So and then you know, nowadays on your phone you can tap two locations on a cast or a footprint or of whatever it is, or anything of the skin of a room, and it'll tell you the distance. And that was his intent he wanted. He was telling me one time he wanted to do this thing where you can take two footprints of seemingly the same individual and then lay them over one another, and if the opposite footprints just flip it, it doesn't matter,

because you can do that digitally so well. And if you color one one color and color the other casts another color digitally, like yellow and green, where the overlap should be blue, right, and where they're different, you should see the yellow and green, and that would show differentiation in toe positions, depths, flexion, and a number of other anatomical features that he was great, greatly interested in. And

those files are out there. Those files are out there, and he uses them every once in a while in his publications and saying there's fascinating things. But to get back to the Patterson Gimlin thing where you mentioned Bob Titmas's ten casts in a row regardless of quality, one of the other things that stood out, which makes perfect sense. And again, but it took someone like Jeff to point it out. I think, you know, because sometimes you don't see the obvious until somebody points it out. And I've

had pleasure of pointing things out to Jeff too. We

can tell that's right in a while too. But when you look at all ten of those prince in a row, especially from the top down, like that perpendicular perspective before he turns it, you know, forty five degrees or ninety degrees to the angle of the camera, the prince are many of them are are different sizes, you know, some are two or three inches longer than the other ones, Which goes back to this idea that I'm always harping on that footprints are not the shape of the foot,

They're the shape of the damage done to the ground by the foot, right. I say that all the time most presentations. That comes out of my mouth several times. But when you look at the prince flat, you know, laying flat on a table, so to speak. There's two three four inches in difference between those many times. But if you look at where the mid tarsal pressure ridge is, or the evidence of the inflection in the foot at least to the toes, those do not vary very much.

Those don't don't vary probably more than a half an inch or something like that, which which is the kind of variance you would expect. And the reason is when a sasquatch walks, and and everything I'm saying, everything I'm saying, is because Jeff taught us, by the way, But when a sasquatch walks, the foot flexes in the in the mid part of the foot right underneath the ankle, while that big jumble of bones are right behind the mid

of tarsals. And then the push off of the foot therefore, the force with all that weight behind it as the animal walks to the next step is on the entirety of the front half of the foot. And to take it even one step further. And I talked to Jeff about this.

Is that So the push off on the front half of the foot like that which pushes down into the ground, because that's where the greatest forces and it's the part of the gait that has the greatest amount of force, that's the deepest part, And so that wouldn't be expected to have a great degree of variance in it, whereas the heel strike and stuff. Push makes the prince and

the patterson gimlin thing longer, you know, that expects. But the toes, the toes on a sasquatch aren't used to the same degree as in human beings as far as the force upon push off. They seem to be more of like a stabilization thing. Yeah, there's a little bit of force on him that toes do impress, you know, but many, many, like a significant percentage of the sasquatch footprints that I have personally observed the ground. The toes

sometimes barely register. You know that the toes are there for stabilization and grasping and that sort of thing, but the force is not on the toes, which makes sense because the toe. And this is another thing I remember, Jeff, I don't know what TV show this is in, but this is before I even met the guy. I think I remember him saying that the toes of a sasquatch are probably about as long as your fingers are, and therefore can be expected to have about the same level

of prehensibility, you know. And you know, they're not grabbing pens and writing or something with them, or they're not changing the channel on those old fashioned TVs, you know, with their toes like I did when I was a kid or whatever. But but they're used for stabilization and then kind of grasping the substrate to some degree. And these are all things that doctor Meldrum showed us.

of hoarding evidence or what they find. And it's pretty remarkable that Jeff wanted so many eyes on those casts and then realizing the difficulty it would be to fly people to Idaho, or the difficulty of transporting that cast collection around, that he endeavored to have them represented in digital space so that scientists from around the world could

lay their eyes on him and interact with him. I mean, that's that's a pretty generous thing that doesn't happen very often in Sasquatch, where he let alone all the willingness to you know, it's sort of like the consummate professor

teacher sharing the gift of knowledge. Because yeah, so, like Boba mentioned, like you're mentioning, so many of these things we've learned came from his willingness to talk on camera to seemingly like anyone who would show an interest because I used to listen to him on you know, a lot of blog talk radio shows, you know, early internet radio, pre podcast that sort of thing, and he really was extremely generous with this knowledge and those discoveries and his

willingness to share is pretty unique in the history of Sasquatrey not to dine great people of the past, but not everyone was as generous.

record of how the foot interacted with the substrate. And I've seen him teach that lesson so many times to people, which requires a lot of general It would be a lot easier to say, I just go read my book and leave me alone, you know. But he was very generous to teach.

he was a he was a nerd man. He loved what he did, and he loved the teaching aspect, and yeah, yeah, and it was it was always a treasured moment to see him doing what he loved, which is teaching about something that he got really got excited about, you know.

people that way. But he really did a lot to try to bring this subject to his peers and colleagues and just to the world, just in terms of you know, that project being one of many examples of trying to share that in a really literal and figuratively a high resolution manner, you know, not just some paper with a black and white, you know, two D picture in it, but really trying to bring this information to people. And those are huge contributions.

kind of time, and I feel terrible. He was lamenting about not being able to help the little guy.

he didn't do it because he looked bad. He always spoke about the subject in a scientific, biological manner because he thought that the subject deserved that, and to go to fanciful lengths to explain things through paranormal means does no service to the animals nor the subject.

in this subject. From designating a name, you know, an IGNO taxon, to the footprints and using the Patterson film site footprints as the sort of type specimen for the Igno taxon, things of that nature really serve to legitimize what is seen by most people as an outlandish or preposterous sort of idea or pursuit. And I can't think of anyone who's done more good to legitimize this asquatch than Jeff's done in the last twenty five years.

me this story more than once. There there was a conference going on and he submitted this paper. It was about the Ichno taxonomy. Okay, Now, taxonomy is the is the study or the science I guess of naming animals. You know, we all know that there's a genus and species name that it's in Latin, you know, Homo sapiens, you know, or some americanas like that kind of stuff, where there's a genus and a species name. That's what taxonomy is.

can do this and there's no rules against it. See, in taxonomy, you need a type specimen, a hollo type, you need a species sample, you know, to name something. But in Ichno taxonomy you need a footprint. And this is they use Ichno taxonomy for things like dinosaur footprints for example, or the Leatoli tracks. We don't really know that it was Australopithis and Australopithecus affensus that made those, but Ichno taxonomists have attributed it to that species, you know.

So that's what ichno taxonomy kind of is. So we have lots of footprints of sasquatches, and he used the Patterson Gimlin film subject as the prime example and kind of proposed a name, proposed a name for the uh They call it an Ichnogenus an ignospecies, you know, describing those footprints, you know, so like there was a species that made those. But I believe, and I could be wrong. I don't know everything. I barely know anything I feel most days, but ichno, taxonomy is the naming of the

footprint thing, not necessarily the species. Whlthough they're kind of tied together and agree and if if I'm incorrect and you happen to know, let me know. But he said, well, we have footprints for this, and it would be a fun way to get the sasquatch thing in front of a conference of scientists who are kind of interested in footprints, because I think it was a nicdo taxonomy conference that

was going on at the time. So yeah, this is a great way to get this kind of evidence in front of these kinds of people and hopefully it'll turn a few heads and maybe even lure a couple of the other mainstream scientists over to the dark side so they can study sasquatches a little bit. And I don't know if he was successful in that, but it kind of shows Jeff's number one scientific rigor because being interested in the sasquatch thing, Jeff had to be very very

conservative with his claims. He had to back them up rigorously. So anybody, if you're going to present a paper like this to a conference, he's got to make sure all his tease or crossed and ezer dotted and all that jazz, you know. So but also shows a sense of humor because he knew that it would ruffle some feathers. He knew that going into this, but he did it anyway because frankly, he was a badass when it came to

stuff like that. He was more than willing to smile and ruffle a few feathers along the way, especially when he knew that he did a good job with the paper and there's no reason, no foundation for it being rejected. And of course he was rejected a few times in various paper publications because of a sasquatch subject. But in something like this, they let us slide through, They let it go through, and he was just so pleased about it,

and he thought that really gave him a kick. I remember talking to him several times about this paper and hopefully, you know, it turns some heads like like he was hoping, and maybe even did bring a few scientists into this area of interest.

I was at Walla Walla. I went to Walla Walla, Washington to some stuff in the Blues a couple of weeks ago, and I managed to finally track down a historic bigfooter named Brian Smith, who of course is best known for the Cueterville, Idaho cast from two thousand and one, I believe, but I have a lengthy interview with Brian over lunch, and Brian saw a Sasquatch in ninety two. I actually saw two of them walk in front of his car in nineteen ninety two, and that kind of

put him on the trail there, you know. And he only met Paul Freeman once, but he was very active in the Blues. He mostly hung out with West Summerland, but he ran across doctor Meldrim at some point and became a member of doctor Meldrum's nonprofit research group called the North American Eight Project, and I think Minezinski was involved.

Derek Randalls, I know, was involved. Brian Smith was involved, and doctor Meldrim was the head of it all and stuff was a nonprofit somehow associated with the ISU, the Ido State University. But Brian was telling me stories about being in the field with doctor Meldrum. They used to stay in a cabin up on Biscuit Ridge somewhere, which

is one of these hills above the Wallah Walla. There's a woman gave them access to her cabin, if I remember right, and they used to stay there and then do field work day and night, I guess, you know, but they had a place to stay there. There's a lot about the field work of doctor Meldrim that I

honestly don't know about. And that was one of the fascinating things about having conversations, you know, casual conversations with Jeff, is that he would bring up, you know, this time that he was at West Summerlin's house and you know, and his wife would do this, and like it's like all these personal relationships that he had with some of the greatest names in Bigfoot, or the most legendary names in Bigfoot, you know, whether it is you know, West

Summerlin or Paul Freeman, or doctor Krantz, for example, I like little things. To me, the minutia is always the most meaningful in a lot of ways. You know. It's kind of like when they say, don't forget that the good old days are actually what's happening right now. You know that kind of thing, like the little things count and that, you know that kind of thing. But I

remember doctor Krantz as far as that's concerned. One time, doctor Meldrum went to visit doctor Krantz in his lab at Pullman in Washington, and they got out all of Krantz's footprints from a certain area and then kind of made a gradient of them. They like, he said, they laid him across the hallway, is what he told me. Where they Okay, well, this cast like this one over here,

cast A. We know that that's like cast. We know that's the same individual as cast B here, right, And this one here looks a lot like Cast C. So A and C must be the same. And they just kept doing that where there's like a dozen or twenty footprints across the hallway, and when you look at A and you know Z on the other side, they don't

look very much alike. But since there's a connection from A to B and B two C B. You know that gradient exists, then you know A and Z must be the same, you know, that kind of logic sort of thing. And he said, yeah, so where do we cut it off? And that was like the way one of the ways that doctor Krantz and doctor Meldrum started looking into the recurrence of individual sasquatches over time is by looking at the variation that is possible in the

sasquatch foot. And then of course that got Jeff's brains moving and stuff you know about because he knows the inner workings of the food pretty much better than most people do, you know, ninety nine percent or more of everybody on the planet obviously, and he said, well, that really got him moving on that sort of thing. You know, it's just like little little stories of behind the scenes.

I've always appreciated and those are some of my most treasured kernels of knowledge that I've picked up from Jeff.

I was surprised. I was pretty stuck, you know, going out with them and getting in the woods of them and learning from him.

But on one of these occasions, Jeff had work to do. You know, he's a professor, he's got emails, he's got things to do, grading papers or whatever whatever you had to do. And his lab is you know, it's kind of big. I mean maybe thirty feet by twenty feet

or something like that, I don't know. And there's a small little area that's like probably ten by ten or less, and that's where his desk and computer and books and stuff are, and the rest of it's just you know, like science nerd stuff, you know, footprints and all that jazz. So he had stuff to do at his desk, so's he said, well, yeah, why don't you rummage through the drawers, man,

see what's of interest here for you? And I go all right, you know, and then he went to go or I don't know how you could work like over me, giggling like a schoolgirl outside every two minutes about something. You know, I don't know how he could do it focus with me making so much noise and my shrieks of glee as I went through the drawers and looked at various casts and things like that. I'm exaggerating a

little bit but not that much. But at one point I pulled out two casts, and one of them was from West Summerland, and one of them was from Paul Freeman. I think it was nineteen eighty six and nineteen eighty eight. One of them was from I think the Freeman. One was from a place called Yellow Jacket, which is over by Tiger Saddle and the Blue Mountains and the other places.

The other one is from a place called Indian Camp, which is some miles away, maybe five miles away or something like that, maybe seven at the most.

I said, are these the same individual? And he goes, let's take a look, and stood He stood up and he says, I've always kind of thought that, but now that you're saying it, let's really take a look at this, you know, And then we eate them both down, and I said, well, look at the shape of the big toe, because that's something i'd noticed at that point in my life, because I mean, I'm surrounded by footprint casts. I mean, both of you guys have been in my garage. It's

ridiculous around here. I'm surrounded by footprint casts every time I go anywhere in my house. And so I said, look at the big toe. I mean, halex is really

a differentiator as far as individual sasquatches go. I'm completely confident of that, in the same sort of way that you know, the tail fins of whales are used to identify individual whales, or the dorsal fins of orcas or great white sharks are used to identify individual animals, you know, just like you know our faces are used for human beings, like I know what Matt looks like, I know what

Bobo looks like. These other identifiers and other animals are pretty they stand out, and the halex, the big toe on sasquatch footprints is one of those things that stands out to at least me, because I've seen so many footprint casts and I'm surrounded by them all the time. But the halex on. Both of these are very very similar, and I say what he's and they're about the same length, and they weren't that far apart. So Jeff laid him down and we started talking about it, and and he goes, oh, yeah,

I think they are. And then he started talking about the supernation and pronation of the foot. And you can imagine how how happy that made me. Is Like, even though Jeff had kind of considered that before, he had never really done the grunt work of getting it down and moving it around and comparing the two and and

and and again. To Jeff's credit of being a fantastic and humble human being, he would he would say that, like, yeah, Cliff Barrickmhan was in my lab and he pointed this out to me, and I'd always thought so, but it was it was, you know, through through U. I mean, we did that, and I think that's so That's just I almost said the F word there. It's so cool to have been able to, I guess, be there or pointed out, you know, or nudge him to like confirm my thought. I mean, I don't know what I did,

but I was there and it was cool. And I've even seen it just yesterday. I think I saw maybe today I saw a diagram of those two casts with an explanation underneath it, and I'm thinking, yeah, that's I was there. That's cool. That was really neat when that quote unquote discovery was made. And I'm thrilled that Jeff listened, you know, because you would think that somebody of his stature wouldn't need to listen to the little guy like me. It's just really cool.

access to it. But that's something that you know, Bobo and I kind of had a small part in a way because the first time that the cast had been brought out into public was when we were filming Finding Bigfoot. The producers for Finding Bigfoot got a hold of the crew family and Wade and John came out to the

site and we got to see the actual cast. We were like amongst the first people in Bigfoot Nerd Nerd Bill, you know that, to actually see the actual cast in decades and decades and decades, and I took I took several pictures of it, of course with permission from John Crue and Wade, and it was it's that photograph that I sent the Doctor Meldrum that he used for that comparison. It's just another cool thing that I was accidentally involved in, and I'm just so thankful that I had a chance

to contribute something. I'll send that article over right now and you can link it in the show notes below about the Supernation, and it has photographs of those two casts, and actually this particular article even has photographs of the cast from China and the Labrity casts and as well as the tipmus stuff too. So I'll send that over to you right now.

other things. Even though Legend Meete Science the documentary had come out prior to the show I didn't see that documentary until after I watched Mysterious Encounters. Boat was really interested in him and trying to track down interviews that were online, many of which were text interviews print interviews.

But then I remember when the book was announced and I bought the book like immediately when it came out, when it hit shelves back in the days when you had to go to Barnes and Noble or Borders or whatever, to a physical bookstore to get new books, new releases, instead of having them delivered to your door. And I bought two copies. So I was so excited to read it.

And you know, i'd been pursuing it for a couple of years at that point, and as one does, you know, you're trying to get everyone you know and care about to be as interested as you are. And so I bought a copy for me and a copy for my dad. You have to read this, even though I hadn't fully ready yet, but that book was super impactful because at that point I had only read a handful of books. It's kind of hard to track them all down at

that point in time. So I'd read Krantz's book, which was the first book that i'd read, and I think I had already read Lauren Coleman's Bigfoot The True Story of Apes in America. I didn't even find a copy of Apes among us, I think, until after I read Meldrem's book. But so that was one of the first

texts and just had a huge impact. And that was one of those things that set the bar of like I need to really get a grasp of the concepts and the language, etc. It was shortly thereafter, because I think Jeff's book came out in two thousand and six, and then I enrolled in college and the first course I signed up for was physical anthropology, and that was all because I was so inspired by that book and

well the subject in general. But it Crantz's book to some degree to me, Meldrims was more comprehensive, you know, because it's a little more up to date. But Miltrims was a bit more accessible to me at that time. But that has to be I mean, what do you guys think that's probably the best selling Sasquatch book of all time? I would think I.

and Cassie had there and documenting them. And I went out there and was, you know, kind of bugging him, like he didn't need me there, but I was just like, you know, I was trying to be like a gopher boy whatever whatever he needed. Then Jane Gettall was speaking that night in Arcada, doat Humble State University, which is like, you know, forty five minutes down on the coast, and so I gave I drove Jeff down there, and I bought three of his books, and uh, it was sold out.

It was like I think there was fourteen hundred and sixteen hundred people there. And afterwards she came she came out in the lobby and was signing stuff and like you literally it was like a factory line, dude. It was like they they had a couple of people tell you like before you get to the front, like you only got like six seconds, and then they gave you

little pieces of paper. You had to write your name and spell it properly, like you know, print it so that she could see it and sign real fast like say to so and so Jane goodall, and like it

was and she was super tired. Was the last day of her like two month trip through America, like her big fundraising trip of the year, and the very next night she had to be back in London for like the biggest whatever that Wilderness Society over there is, I forget what it's called, but like the biggest one and it was that that night it's the biggest fun night, Razor Night for her chimp research projects, and so it was like a big deal and she was and you can just see she was so run down, but she

gave a great talk. And when we were in line, people like there was people heckling me, going like oh, bigfoot stuff this and that, you know, and I was talking, smacking, like I was yelling at people like you're fools, like you idiot, you know. And Jeff was just like what the hell is going on? Like who am I with?

You know, and and uh, we get up there and Jane Goodall he goes, he goes hi, Jane, I'm I'm Jeff, and she goes doctor Meldrum and she just stopped the line, and like, dude, it was like they had people like doing the Peter Burn and you're like avenue and pushing you away, going okay, nice to meet you.

but uh, yeah, it was. It was really cool, like to see and like Jeff getting that validation, you know, in front of everyone, and you know, it was uh because he was he was kind of like a few people recognized him, not not too many, but a couple of people recognized him, and they kind of made, you know, snotty comments like jokes about it, and so uh. She she was very excited to meet Jeff. And I was telling her that we had just found those those nests

up in uh North up by Rowed National Park. We'd found those nests up there, and she she really wanted to see him. They were still there, like they got kind of destroyed in the windstorms the next over the next two winners, they really got thrash, but she she wanted to go see. We were going to show them to her, and she was so excited. They just her

team said, no, this is your biggest fundraiser. You have to go back, We have to leave for she was flying out on the midnight flight and going straight back right out of London and she was already burnt out. So they didn't they didn't let her go, but she she really wanted to go. And but it was really cool seeing Jeff get like that validation, you know, such an important figure, you know, in the global community of you know, primatology.

you know, researcher, et cetera, got those sorts of endorsements period. Yeah, you know, Schaller and Goodall are pretty heavy hitters, like like Bobo said, on the global stage, not just like within their field, but you know Schawler's work with snow leopards, on and on and on. So that in itself speaks to you know, again, the legitimacy that he was able to bring to the pursuit of the sasquatch.

with that. In my opinion, that's maybe that's what irks me about the newer generation being a little flipping about it. And I think that's it deserves better. And I always felt that doctor Meldrum was the best ambassador for the subject in so many different ways because he did take the subject so seriously, yet he enjoyed it. But also he was so careful about everything, so conservative in his

science and his claims and his thoughts. You know, he thought he would entertain interesting thoughts, of course, but like when if he came to I came to public publication, he knew that the eyes of the world were on him. He knew that, so his scholarship had to be impeccable, and I think by and large it was. I mean, it surpassed impeccability in so many ways. And it's so sad that he didn't live to get the recognition that he will eventually get.

the world works. Like Jeff passes away, then there's gonna be some breaking, like you know, whether you know the relatively short time in a few years or something.

thing done. Doing it for Jeff Man. We're doing it for Jeff.

field of sasquatchery. But for the last seven years, in terms of academics and scientists, he's kind of been the lone voice, at least as far as anthropologists are concerned. And yeah, it has always set a standard that I've been trying my best to reach. I mean, that's why I tried to be a perpetual student and become like autodidactic and build a library about relevant discipline so that I could hopefully, you know, live up to you something that Jeff would take. Oh, you're you're a good student,

you know, without having a degree byself. So in the absence of that mean he's very much a north star for me and many many people. So his absence leaves a massive void. But yeah, the only way to even think about filling that void is to say, like, well, we just have to aim as high as we can to reach the standard that Jeff said.

into things that they're interested in and curious about. And some scientists might say that, well, it's because of the evidence doesn't hold up, and I say, malarkey, you need to look a little bit closer, you need to look a broader scope of the evidence. You need to look at the thing as a whole. The best evidence for Sasquatch is not one single thing. It's not the film, it's not a footprint. It's how it all goes together,

and it's congruent. And I think that it's a it's a negligence of their duty in a lot of ways because and I can't blame them, you know, scientists, the academic scientists are looking at that GRANTMA and they're looking at ladder in their career, they're looking at that kind of stuff. But I think that it's up to us, man, and especially since Jeff's gone now, it's up to the citizens scientists to get the job done because until then, the academics aren't going to move on it. No one's

coming to save us. We got to do it. And that's the lesson that I took from Jeff. It's up to me, it's up to you. It's up to us to do the best job we possibly can and to rise to their level because they couldn't imagine stooping to ours. Well.

I don't know if there's any single sasquatch researcher who has been interviewed more than Jeff, again speaking to his generosity, So I will put together what you know, I I think are the sort of like best of the best

interviews that cover a lot of ground. Thankfully due to his generosity, anyone who's just if you're hearing this for the first time the day of its release, or if you're hearing this in the year twenty thirty, you two can be a student of Jeff's even though he's gone, Like you can read his book, you can read these papers, you can listen to I would say, hundreds of hours of interviews and be a student of his, and I

definitely encourage that. But I will do my best to create like a one stop shop repository what I think is the best of the best for our listeners, and I'll have that link in the show notes.

never read his stuff, check it out. Get his book read these papers mask on a link to in the show notes and learn, you know, just hit yourself on the on the squatch. It's more than just scary stories. So all right, well, thanks for tuning in focus. Until next time, y'all, keep it squatchy.