Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bulbo. These guys are your favorites, so like to subscribe and raid it.
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Greatest on us today and listening watching Limb always keep its watching.
And now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bubo Fay.
Hey, bobes, what's going on?
Man? Hellbot? You just going on Cliff.
Too much, too much. But before we jump into any of that, why don't we start with a little bit of paperwork house cleaning stuff, because Matt Prude has a little thing about the membership for everybody. Matt, why don't you take it?
Yeah over at our Patreon membership Beyond, Big Foot and Beyond. We've now got the audio podcast integrated right into the app, which is super cool. So it used to be the case that once you became a member, you had to add the pot cast feed to your podcast app, but now as soon as you become a member, you have access to all of the ad free and all of the bonus episodes in one place right there in the app,
so you can start listening right away. And the other great thing is if you're an existing Patreon user, or even if you're not. We are integrated into Spotify now, so if you search beyond Bigfoot and Beyond and Spotify, you'll find our feed there and it'll show those episodes
with like a little padlock icon on them. So you would just click that and either create a Patreon account again for five dollars a month for a Bigfoot and Beyond, or if you're an existing member, you just log in with your Patreon credentials and you can get all new episodes as well as all the past ones right there in the Spotify app. So all that's integrated. It's been made a lot simpler. A lot of people are listening right in the Patreon app now, so everything's in one place,
you know. And we also use that app to post photos, images, videos, other media that go along with each episode. And there's a great community chat there if you want to chat with other members, et cetera. So Patreon made things a lot easier. So I want to make sure everyone knew about that. If you know, you know, coo coo, coo.
Very good, very good. Well, other than that, bobes, what's going on man? Anything good?
I've got out with Bart a couple of nights ago.
Oh that's cool, very good. Yeah, Bar's gonna be popping by the house on Monday.
And it is just come out here. The day after that, we're gonna try to get out for a night.
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, we were going to try to get out, but the rain and then, yeah, the tragedy hit the Barrickman household. Sochi unfortunately has left us. The cancer got the better of her. But that's all I really want to say about that. I don't want to dwell on it because I cry a whole lot about that, and I just don't want to focus on that right now. She was a blessing in so many ways, but she has now checked out unfortunately.
So she was my sister.
Oh my god, she was everything to us.
Yeah.
So we're going to be leaving town on Tuesday and Wednesday to kind of get out of the house because it turns out everywhere we look around here we can see Sochi. So we're going to try to get out of the house for a couple of days and try to get our head together. Otherwise I'd go to the woods with Bart, but I have some healing to do. But other than that, I mean, I just got back from Ohio. Ohio was an amazing gig once again. Great lineup.
Of course, Doctor Meldrum was there. Renee was there, you know, from fighting Bigfoot. Of course, it's nice to see her every once in a while on these gigs.
I'll take me ten years from for people to say, Renee, I didn't think they end.
In Oh yeah, well, you know, better late than never. Shelley coming to Montana was there, of course, and she's got some cool things to talk about. We might have her on the podcast in the next couple of months or something for her second time. There's a lot of new developments on her front there, so probably have her back on at some point. Of course. I was speaking and the lovely intelted Seth reid Loove that we just had on the podcast a few weeks ago. Great, great lineup,
super fun. I really enjoyed hanging out with everybody. And of course the Ohio gig is great every year. What are you gonna say about it?
Did you catch any of talks? No?
No, unfortunately I didn't because Ohio's like that, it's just so busy. I can't even leave the table, you know. But I did get a lot of one on one time with all of the speakers. I got to hang out with the entire Small Town Monsters crew, had dinner with them one night, and there's not a bad apple among them, as every single person on that team is just fantastic. Yeah, they're cool, super cool. I recommended a movie to them, one of my favorite movies of all time,
of course, The Dark Backwards. Yeah, I highly recommend everybody watch it. But man, it is not for the faint of heart. Is It's an odd movie. So and because of that, I thought, well, Seth was going to love this. I think, or it might cost us our friendship. I have no idea what. I have no idea, but I recommended it to them, and so they're going to check it out and get back to me on that one.
I had a great breakfast with doctor Meldrum, went over a lot of things with him, just he and I at the table, just shooting the poop, talking about various developments and things we've been up to and all that kind of stuff. I think my presentation went pretty well. I enjoyed it. I always enjoy giving the presentation and
kind of sharing. It was great, wonderful time. I'm going and looking forward to the next time I get to go out to Ohio for the Ohio Bigfoot Conference, and of course I'll be out in Ohio later this year as well for the Hawking Hills thing. Ohio has been very good to us over the years and a lot of good people down there, so I'm going to keep on going back. But now I got a I got three weeks off before I go do a job out in Kentucky that Charlie Raymonds put together, and we'll here.
We'll be hearing a little bit more about that in the coming weeks as well. So this I'm enjoying my first downtime in like a month. I hate to have the whole Sochi thing happened during that. I hate to have the whole Sochi thing happened ever, honestly, But at least I have a little bit of spare time in my life so I can process things.
You know.
Yeah, it's a bummer, man. It's like I was. I ran into my neighbor and I got outside, like around eleven o'clock, and I was like, since Monkey, I used to walk around every night like for like a couple of times, for like twenty thirty minutes at a time with Monkey, you know, just cruising the hood. So I kind of had to pull some things. What's going on at night around around town, And like she's kind of like,
I don't walk the beach that I'd never watched. I never walked the beach anymore because the slope because my bad hit at her at HER's too much to walk on the slope of the beach. I never walked. Like it totally changed my weape in like ways I wasn't expecting.
Yeah, I'm trying to focus on the positive, you know. And again, also, I literally start crying if I talk about it too much, so I won't. But I realize, like as I look around the house and don't see her in all these places, I realized that those are the small things, you know. And I'm working really hard to uh, to not overlook the small things I have with Melissa or other friends and that sort of thing. So it's again, so she continues to teach me the valuable lessons in life.
Yeah, we should move on. I can hear your voice starting to crack.
Yeah it's not easy, man, I know what.
You're going through. It it's super hard, and yeah it takes a while.
Yeah, but whatever. And if listeners think, like if they're uncomfortable. I'm sorry, man, but I'm real. You know, I don't lie.
Our listeners won't be I mean they were very supportive about Monkey and as well about Sergio and so, which which reminds me. I mean, now it's the month of May. We've been doing this for six years officially, and so and a lot of these people have been with us since the beginning, you know, managing like the social media and the email and all that. I see a lot of the same name since week one, month one basically, which is really cool. So I think these people understand for sure, for sure.
But what else we got?
I got one interesting mail bag response that I don't know if it was intended for a future Q and A, but since it was so timely in response to a conversation we just had, I thought it would be a good mail bag item to dig into, so I'll pop it in the chat here.
Alan Mayer, Greetings, Cliff and Bobo. I'm asking for a friend who owns a vacation Kevin deep into Wisconsin would for about ten years there was no evidence of anything suggesting Bigfoot presence. The last two or three years he has had sightings and encounters, some very scary. He fears for his and his family safety and has decided to list the property for sale. Is he or is real estate agent morally alligated to tell prospective buyers about the
Bigfoot activity. I've talked to this about this. I don't know about Wisconsin laws, but I talked about with ones in California and they said, I guess there are some precedent setting things about haunted houses and like if there's been a murder there, he got to list that. But they said, no, not with Bigfoot.
Yeah, I've heard that with the murder and hauntings before. I think it veries state the state according to laws like real estate laws. Maybe somebody there might be some sort of you know, law about sasquatches, but at this point, you know, there's no laws about leprecawns either, you know, and for the as far as legally sasquatches or as real as leprechauns. But is he morally obligated not legally obligated?
He can sell because of that? I mean, I'd be a selling point. You know.
It reminded me, if I remember correctly, the oh Nubby, Oklahoma House, the Siege House had some things associated with it. Like there were bars over the windows and these big like blaring alarm kind of sirens on the roof that you know, it was never disclosed to the people who ended up. The brothers and their families who ended up. I think they were renting. I don't know if they
owned it or not. I could be wrong, but they were curious, like why is all this here because it was in the middle of nowhere, you know, why do you have bars on the windows somewhere in the middle of nowhere, And so it was kind of wondered if
that's what it was for. And then I also remember, in the case of the Zubie's story in San Diego County, apparently when that family bought the home, the previous owners again if I'm remembering the tail correctly, they had installed these big bright lights outside and they had told them like, whatever you do, don't turn these lights off at night.
And apparently they were big and bright and ugly, like big yellow like halogen bulbs, and they were like, okay, well, the first thing they did is turn those lights off at night, and things started coming closer to the house, you know.
But so it seems like in those cases maybe the owners were trying to give subtle hints, didn't Michael with Michael's mysterious neighbors said the same thing that he had asked a previous owner, Hey man, why didn't you tell me about the Sasquatches?
And he's like, oh, you found out about that? Huh yeah, yeah.
I guess is why because in that situation, the proper the people that Michael and his family bought the property from, I guess his daughter or some relative lives down the slope from him, you know, so he was visiting one day and pop by the house say, hey, figure everything out. You figure out how the hot tub works and all
that kind of stuff, you know. And I believe it was Michael's wife that said to him, like, you didn't tell me about them, And he goes, oh, what do you mean, because and she goes about them, and then like a look of understanding went across his face and said, oh, yeah, yeah, no, we didn't tell you about that, And then they started
talking about it, so he knew he knew. Basically, I kind of wonder when I was looking for the property that I currently own, going through the real estate listenings, or I occasionally still do in case I ever have to move or something, but I don't intend to. I see places out in very squatchy locations that I'm pretty confident they would have sasquatches around, and very often those kind of properties say you know, seclusion, this that wildlife, And I'm thinking, I think that that's like a code
word for yeah, we got these things around. But if they just came out and said it, I would maybe sell my house and move today. I don't know, but morally obligated, I think I think that, you know, for certain people, it would be morally wrong to not tell me because I would want to buy that property.
Yeah.
I thought that was a good comment and a timely one. And then, in response to last Monday's episode, wherein Bobo had told young Toby quote, send in another question, kid, and I'll answer it. I give you this, Hello.
You, I'm beyond it is me again, Toby. I would like to give a further question to the last, specifically to b because some reason he's in the ground. Anyway, a human's heart is roughly the size of their fist. Do you think a bigfoot's heart is roughly the size of their fist? I'd love to hear, especially from Bobo thank you well.
I don't think that goes true for all species that like the hand or the power or the hoof would match the heart size. But in mammals there is you know, a rule or law of nature that for mammals there is a correlation of body mouse and heart size, particularly of human fist, because human fists, i mean the human hands is so much smaller in proportion to the body size. Well, at least from the some of the clips we've seen, their hand size might be bigger proportion than the heart size.
Like great age champs, gorillas orangutans and bonobo's have hands that are proportionally larger and longer than human hands, especially in the fingers or hands are adapted for knuckle walking and brecreation. Like givens and ragutans how they swing arm above their heads and they swing through the trees. Their fists at their class are much larger relative of their body size than in humans, and their hands are broader, have longer fingers, makes their fist bulk here compared like
the human fist is really compact. So the heart is the size of a fist role as a human centric simplification. In grade apes, the heart is much smaller than the fist and built. The hands and hearts of non human apes are structurally and functionally different from ours due to divergent evolutionary pressures, which you could expand to the Sasquatch as well. Agreed.
Yeah, when I heard this, the first thing that came to my mind is the idea that were the fact that homofluresiensis has much larger feet in proportion of their body than we would expect from mouhaminin. And then I reflected back on Krantz's speculation. Of course, Krantz's book was written in ninety two or ninety one or something, so we knew a lot less about you know, jenes and stuff at that time. But he kind of speculated that maybe hand and foot size might be controlled by the
same gene. And I don't know if that's true or not, if that actually panned out to be true or not. I have no idea, but that's the first thing that came to my mind, is like, different species clearly have different ratios of hand and foot sizes versus mass and everything. But I think if you go back to that thing that you were talking about, both like the heart size in relation to the mass. I think that probably holds
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recorded yesterday two days a couple of days ago. Anyway, we had to record in the NABC like the old days when I did all the podcasts back there, because Alan, our guest for today, and I were huddled around a singular microphone because of his technological situation. So what you're going to hear now we recorded just recently and we're going to pipe it in right now for your enjoyment. I hope everybody loves our interview with Alan today. Why don't we hop into our guest today. He's a good
friend of mine. I've known him for several years. He's kind of turned me onto a couple of big foot spots, and I've done the same for him. Probably I think he's had better luck with it than I have, perhaps in some ways. But this is Bobo, This is my friend Alan.
They nice to meet you, Boba.
Let's reach you too.
Yeah, so's You can probably tell he's not from the United States, but that he's into bigfoot and he hangs out. He's a regular at the NABC, he's one of our members. But Alan, where were you born?
I was born in Windsor, Windsor in the UK. Yes, in the UK, just outside London, gotcha.
No bigfoots out there, right.
Absolutely not. The most dangerous thing we have is like a hedgeholder or a badger. That's about it.
Well, badgeris I'll keep on badgering you if you're not careful. Right. And when did you come to the States.
We emigrated in nineteen eighty nine. We had our first incident in nineteen eighty.
In nineteen eighties, nine years before you left, Yes, UK.
I came out to meet my future in laws and they always camped and fished on the Santiam River near sort of near Detroit Lake Marion Forks, and so we went sort of for a day camp. They started lighting the fire. Me and Karen went about a mile up the bank fishing, and we were there for probably fifteen minutes and we heard bang, man man, man crash in the brush behind us. Karen just ran and said, bare run.
So I grabbed the fishing poles. I looked back and about six foot up in a tree, I saw a sort of the forearm and the fingers of like a black hairy arm just bashed like a small branch off. And then I just ran as well and get back to her mum and dad. And my question was do you have monkeys in America? Well, they just laughed at me. I said, oh, you saw a bear. I said, well,
I saw fingers. I know, I saw fingers, and didn't know anything about sasquatch, didn't know anything about bluff charges, you know, so I sort of believed that it was a bear. But I know I saw I saw four fingers. I didn't see a thumb, and it was a black hairy arm about three inches of hair hanging down. And
that was like our first experience. They told me it was a bear, but I saw fingers and bears other fingers, you see finger nails, No I saw like it what it's forty five years ago, but I remember seeing like the black like that much of that, like the forearm down and the back of the hand was like a leathery skin type thing. Didn't see a thumb, but just four fingers go crash and break the branch off. What was a distance, Oh, this was about probably twenty feet away.
Well that's close.
Yeah, and we've just looked saw it quick and we ran. We went back about two hours later just because Grandpas saed it off, it's a it's a bear, it's a bear. We went back, didn't look for footprints because I didn't know anything about bigfoot, and he found some scratch marks on the tree, which he said that's a bear because they scratched for grubs and stuff. So they they said it was a bear. But I know what I saw and six feet up in a tree, that's yeah. And
it broke a branch off. It went like boom and broke like a one one each time at a little branch off as it did it, and then we just ran. But it was like a train coming through. It was like crash crash, crash crash. So I'm assuming it was a bluff charge, but SA.
And you would never I mean in the UK you don't hear about bigfoot ever.
I hadn't know. It was just all soccer and darts and beer drinking, okay, normal normal English stuff.
You must have heard about the Yeah, yeah, yeah, we heard.
Of a Yeah. Yeah, you'd be thinking Himalaya. It's not Oregon, right right. So I had no clue. So we went back lived there for nine years. Then we started doing some research, getting books, some library and stuff like that. Then I started to think, well, maybe it was a big foot or a sasquatch. And when we came back in eighty nine, and back in the day it was the Western Bigfoot Society. Ray Crow did the track record, so we would get that every month, and our kids
were like one and five. We would go every weekend in the woods. We'd look them in the brochure recent sightings in certain areas. We would try to get out in all those areas. We've sort of done that for thirty odd years, thirty five years since we've been back. We get out most weekends if we can.
Yeah, you're still going to good, great areas.
Yeah, so that's the first story.
Yeah, So I'm assuming you and Karen both know now that you're not supposed to run from bears.
Well, she said, run, I had no clue.
Well, yeah, yeah, you do what your check once you do get At the same time, that's not the smartest thing to do.
And we didn't catch any fish either.
You know.
I was going to point out that there's a big fish hatchery there Mary in Forks where you saw that right right across from the campground.
It's it's a popular area there, like for there's been sightings and stuff for years in the area.
Got to wonder if there is now though, because the fire is really dead slated the area.
We went back four or five years ago. The first time went back because Karen's dad passed and we sprinkled his ashes in the river and it just looked different. This was there's like a like a visit a center thing with placards, but the campground used to be you camp further in the woods, so it's a bit different that we remember that. But it wasn't really devastating in that area. It was okay, yeah, it was okay.
Okay, yeah, because the twenty twenty the fires went through there and.
Just really through that Sanya.
It was terrible, just absolutely devastating.
Yeah.
Well, okay, so fast forward. Then you started looking for sasquatches going out of hiking in good areas, which is a great way to do, you know, bigfoot stuff, because we always recommend that you go for a different reason because sasquatches aren't usually there, but if you go to have a good time, or if you go to have a good hike, or if you go to go fishing, that stuff is always there. It's available.
We hike probably nearly every weekend. We'll go. You know, we live in Clacamus, so within and hour we have Mount Hood, the Clacamus River Drainage Area, and we have the Columbia River Gorge, which are really three fantastic areas for bigfooting and for hiking and just having fun, you know.
And one of the other things I know you're interested in, Michael, some archaeology, some amateur archaeology. You kind of keep me up to date on some of that. You found. You're aware of some petroglyphs in the Columbia River Gorge. Oh yeah, yeah, and you think they might depict sasquatches.
There's two if you go to horse Horseleef Park, which is on the Washington side, and it's about five miles past the DALs On the Washington side, there's it's called Petroglyph Park and there's a whole bunch of petrocliffs behind a fence. But they've put two new ones and it's it's like a headland sideways but it's doing the like the Whistling Mouth and the Zumica that's what they look like. There's two of them there.
So, well, that's interesting. That's not that far of a drive either.
No, No, it's not. No, So that's sort of sort of a cool thing.
That is cool. That's cool. So you're one of the people that kind of clued me into one of our research areas. Hre at the NABC tell us about what happened up there, because it was you, a researcher that we met that sil works the area, and then another family all within like four or five months, came in with stories from this area, and I had worked that area before and whatnot. We started poking around up there and we started finding stuff and I still go there
several times a month as of right now. But one of the incidents that gave us the idea we should start looking there more closely was yours. So what happened that day.
What we did it was I'm trying to think it was later in the year, because there was bits of snow on the ground, and it was me, my son, my two grandkids, and my wife. It was closed off because of the fires, and my son said, I'm sure we can climb over the barrier. We just walk in a few miles with the kids, it'll be safe. So we go in there. We got like a mile or
so in and all of a sudden we hid. It's like, like, well I told you earlier if if Shane has the act the same thing on recording, it's like a grunt thing. We heard up up above us, and we heard it do it twice, and my son said, well, we need to leave, dad, So we got the kids out there and left, and then I came in and told you, and we sort of got that map out and I sort of said where it was, and you said, yeah, we led people up there, and yeah, that was that was sort of a scary thing as well.
Now was it you who heard? I have I have a story in my head from that area, and I don't remember it's you family out cutting Christmas trees or maybe sledding or something and hearing voices down in the ravine or.
Is that the other story is the other one, because that was the other I think within a week or two they heard like samurai chattered down in the ravine or something there or something like that. Yeah, that's but that was all within a few weeks of this, Okay, this incident, So yeah.
That's why I'm remembering it together like that. You've had a couple experiences at the Blueberry Bog, which, Bobbo, you've been to before a couple of times. Yeah, some pretty crazy stuff happened that with you.
What happened the first one that we were just going to do father some weekend camping up at the Blueberry Bark. It was freezing cold. It was like October right a year ago, October October seventh. Yeah, I'll never forget. I'll never forget that day. It was freezing cold. There was
a campfire ban because of the forest fires. So we're up there just freezing our asses off, and we were going to go big footing, so we had we didn't have any recording equipment then now we've got it, but we just had cameras and whatever, and we put our two tents at the very end of the bog right by the lake, set up camp on the Friday. The first night, nothing happened. We went the bed around ten o'clock. It was just bitterly cold, and about twelve thirty I
heard a clear crack a tree knock. And then that was on like the left hand side, looking at Mount Hood, and on the right hand side I heard like a woo, like a it appeared to be a response to the knock. Well, then I'm thinking, and we're dreaming. You know, this is what we've come for, so get up. The next morning, my son gets out of his tent. The first thing he said, Dad, did you hear the knock? And the response I said, yes, I did, so we knew that
was something we didn't imagine. Next day we hike. We hike up to a quarry, then we hike down to a big meadow in the same sort of area. Had a great day. At about six o'clock in the evening, we'd eating our dinner at by the side of Little Eight by our tents, and Aaron thought he heard He said, I'm sure I've heard women's voices over by the cars. And the cars are like, you cross that little meadow and go down, it's probably two hundred yards away. He so justs go check on the cars.
Dad.
There was no one up there. We go check on the cars. There was nothing there, but he heard these, he thought women's voices. So we go back to our seats and we're just sitting over on the beer and just relaxing. And it was eight fifteen. There was a full moon, So I don't know if the full moon has anything to do with creatures getting crazy. Aaron's looking over my shoulder at the tree line and he said, I've just seen something.
Dad.
I said, what did you see? He said, well, it was out the corner of my eye. Something came out of the tree line around about forty yards down and went back in really really quickly. He said it was dark colored, he said brown or black. But it was getting dark now. But you had a four moon ye, so you could see a shape. Yeah, And he said it was on two legs and it was at least six maybe seven feet tall. So we got a flashlights to be shot it on the trees. We couldn't see anything.
Then we just go back to so just sitting chatting looking at the stars and whatever, and all of a sudden, it was fifteen minutes later. It was right at eight point thirty, we got this the most terrifying scream. I never want to hear it again. It was a cross between a woman being ripped apart, a banshee, a Native American war create. It was like rah, and it was only I'm assuming it was in the tree line because it was so loud. It went through your chest at
a rock concert, you felt it in your body. And it did it for like seven or eight seconds.
One continued scream.
On and on, and we were just eval Era jumped straight up. I won't say use the language you use. He said, we're out of here, Dad. That thing could rip us apart. And as he's jumped up, I thought it was further down the tree line. He thought it was on the ridge. We heard a three like almost like a monkey gorilla noise up on the ridge. Whether that was in response or it had triggered something else off,
I don't know. And we literally left everything. We left the cameras, the tents, we just left everything there in the middle of the night, and we got out of the quick and it's a bit of a pain to get into this place. But so we came home in the middle of the night and we're sitting on the couch and my wife goes, I cannot believe you've come home. We said, it was terrifying. She said, this is exactly what you went for and we said, wow, not that
it really wasn't what we went for. And so she was a bit disgusted with us being wooses.
I'm sure audience will be disgusted with you as well.
I'm sure when we do the last story, Bobo said I needed to grow a fair anyway, So I remember that. Bobo. By the way, I hope you we have.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages.
So the next morning we go back early because we wanted to get all our gearback.
Yeah, like, how much money did you leave out there?
Oh, there was probably at least a couple of grand or those cameras are worth cameras in the tents and sleeping bags and everything.
So yeah, because there's your sons are it takes semi professional photographer and he takes really good pictures into it. Yeah, he's got really good cameras and whatever. Okay, anyway, so we go back the next morning. My wife wanted to come with us because she thought it was so exciting and we were just petrified. We broke camp as fast as you could ever break camp, and we're looking over our shoulders the whole time.
There was no footprints. The ground was really hard, like from the frost, so we didn't see any footprints. Nothing was damage, which was good, and we broke camp as quick as we could. Karen's looking around, She's looking down the tree line, but there was you know. We're like, I'm going to hear the trees come back. And then we put all the stuff in the car and come back out to make sure we'd cleaned it all up. And we hadn't done any tree knocks or whoops the
whole weekend. I said, I'm going to do a couple of whoops as we leave.
So daytime, morning time.
This is like nine o'clock in the morning on the Sunday morning. So I do a whoop, nothing happens, do another whoop, nothing happens. We the three of us turned to walk away and there was a really loud tree not like crash, like a seemed to be in response to the to the whoops. I'm assuming or something was watching us and knew we were leaving. I don't really know, but it seemed to be too much of a coincidence. I said, we heard up there, because then Karen said, well,
they're still here, and we said, yeah, we're not. We're going.
So did Karen call you a whist then too? No?
She she she became a she's always believed, but that really really cemented it there, and she's she's wanted to go up there more than me. We didn't want to go the next year either. And then Cliff, I remember that, well, I guess long story short. We go back to the NABC and we told I think Conner was working. We told this whole thing to Connor and he said he'd
had a similar event. Something came out in the same corner and went down the tree line when he was up there year or two before, and he ripped his tent up trying to get out of there. He said, at least she was smart, you left your stuff and now it's okay. So we didn't know that story. But and then Cliff went up a couple of days later with Kelly and you recorded a vocalization, yeah, which was probably sounded further away, but it was a vocalization. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it was shortly after that that I called our friend Kelly Lemieux, that bass player friend that I liked going bigfooting with, and he and I went up to the bog to do a follow up to see if we can find tracks or to see if we can piece together what had happened. Then we made a member of video out of it, because everybody knows our members
get a couple of videos every single month. But the last six months or so, I've been putting old member videos on a public YouTube page for the Museum North American Bigfoot Center YouTube page, and that is one of the videos that we have up there. It's Kelly's in my follow up with Alan, and Alan here is seen on the video telling the same story and then you can kind of see the area of what we were doing, and it's just, you know, Cliff and Kelly goofing around
in the woods basically. But we got an unsolicited vocalization that same day and we recorded it. It's pretty cool. It sounded like a screech Kelly, who's pretty unfamiliar with a lot of animal noises. Said it sounded like an eagle or something like that, but it was ground level and loud and from the swamps. I don't think it was an eagle. I think it was one of these guys. That could be wrong, but we definitely got a vocalization.
But that night it sounded like you had Knox and vocalizations and a possible Class B sighting of some.
Sorry, and it obviously didn't want us there. That was our opinion. Maybe because we can't right on the lake and in the trees, maybe these things get pissed. I don't know, but it was like it was horrendous. I never want to hear that again. It was horrible and you felt it. You didn't just hear it, you felt it like through. That was the scariest thing. So Aaron said, that thing can just rip us apart. Dad, we're leaving now, and we did. We got out of there real quick.
So we said we'd never go again. Well, the next the very next week, you played the recording. I was in my car with Karen and you said, I've got this recording.
Is this?
I said, that's sort of like it? And you said, well, you guys really should go back up there again, and me and Karen went up the very next week just to look around. We didn't find anything, but so we did go back, and then the very next year we had recording equipment. We had everything we needed and nothing happened.
As far as we thought, nothing had happened. On the Saturday night, we'd gone back to our car to get some beers out of the car and we would stick them in the lake to keep them cool and regular evening, you know, we see the Milky Way at night. It was really cool but freezing cold. Nothing happened. We go to the car Sunday morning after we broke camp and there's all this debris in the road by the car. There's like broken tree branches and dragmark.
In the road that was there when you drove in.
Now it was not then we drove in and we'd been there on the Saturday night and it was like Christine, the only car tracks were our tire tracks or we pulled in and now there was a couple of small trees at the side of the car that were like pushed back, and it appeared to be there was like a tree trunk, probably ten or twelve inch diameter ten feet long. It looked like it had been hurled into the woods right by the car because it was broken down. That wasn't the day before. So we thought this is
odd because we didn't hear anything. And then we looked down. There's a dirt road into the bog. There was a drag mark all the way down the center of the dirt road. So we follow that to the main forest road, which is like a tarmac one, and you could see for at least one hundred and fifty yards up the main road a dragon mark. Was someone or something and dragged this great, big log and held it in by the car. I don't know. I mean, a human's not going to do that. It would take several of us
to lift it. And why would you do it? I can't that's bigfoot related, but I don't know what what it was. And Keith. Keith and Nico had been up there on the Thursday and they'd seen the tree laying at the side of the road before it was dragged down, So so something had moved that tree from there. It had to have been during Saturday night Sunday morning.
Yeah, so while you were there, something went and grabbed this tree. From one hundred and fifty yards away dragged it, like because you could see the drag marks down the.
Paved road photos of it.
Yeah, yeah, you remember that the paved road that goes into that spot, Bobo. And then you hang it right on that dirt road that you drove on the Finding Bigfoot episode.
Yeah, that that.
Cement road had one hundred yards plus of drag marks from this tree. The tree was then dragged on this on the dirt road down another fifty yards or something like that. And then oh, so that's the one you told me about before.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was right next to the car, which is yeah, I saw the pictures. Yeah, I don't know if if they don't want us there, I mean i'd say not so we thought nothing happened, but something happened, but we're not. We didn't. We didn't hear anything. It just just the next morning that was there.
That's even scarier to me though, like it's like, oh, nothing was going on. There was a dead weekend, and you get back and you see giant logs dragged around and thrown near your car that you were completely unaware of. That's even scarier.
It was like doing a crime scene thing it's like, well it sees drag mark or down the road and then it was like on the on the tree that where had been held and see that's what we've done it and you could see it all the way down the top of that road.
Very odd.
And so Matt, do we have pictures of that? Would you want to post that to the members or absolutely, okay, I'll get you those pictures not too long. We can post those to the members. And of course anybody who wants to be a member, you can join up and get episodes like this free with with no commercials and an extra hour every single week. So I'm sure Matt will post a link to the membership sign up thing as well. So have you guys heard it? Have you,
Matt Bobo? Have you guys heard of that kind of behavior where next to your vehicles something that has been deposited seemingly out of disgust of your presence. I mean, this is bigfooting, not like a date or something like that.
Not really, I mean I've heard tons of stories about them doing that, like on the road, like you came in on and you go to the next day and the stuff's there like cross like an X cross road with logs or branches whatever, but not right next to the vehicle like that.
That was weird. I still think it was a squash though. Yeah.
Usually in the context that I've heard it, it's been like Bobo described, like somewhere, you know, across the road, you drive in and the road's clear, and then you go to drive out, you know, minutes or an hour later road.
Yeah, certainly.
Yeah, it's kind of unusual behavior, and I think that's very interesting. And at this spot. I mean, Matt, have you been to the bog? I can't remember.
I have not been to the bog.
Okay, Well, I know Bobo has a couple of times. There are sasquatches there. Maybe not all the time, but they definitely pop by there. And this, of course, that's a big area as well. You know, it's another one of these five or eight miles area on the side on the side sort of places. But there are sasquatches there. I found tracks are twice last summer. We have prints in the museum on display from a few years ago at the same location. Yeah, there are definitely sasquatches in
the area. I've been frequenting the spot for a number of years now. And have a bunch of recordings. We've got stuff on finding Bigfoot when we visited there, it's that episode where Flear came out and Bobo was in a car with driving slow at the R two D two unit on top and I was walking around the edge of the swamp and stuff. So it's a very active area even to this day, although nobody's been there this year yet. I don't think the snow's opened them up.
I think last year nothing happened. Last year when we went, it really was nothing. No recording has known nothing but Keith. I think Keith said he went two weeks later and he thought he saw something on the therm all in the area.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and it was last year. The year before he may have seen one there as well. He thought it was a rock, yeah, but when he looked again it was not there. So yeah, So it's a weird area, very eerie and very quiet.
Oh when it's you just don't hear a thing, not a bird, nothing, even like in the daytime. It can be really creepy out there.
And I do think that's a place that that's a perfect description for the kinds of places they like. I'm telling you I really think that they like the quiet places more than almost anything else. Well, that didn't end your bigfoot stuff. You actually put your eyes on one of these things this past year, right.
Yeah, we'd never done a hike on the Oregon coast and so it was my West's birthday, so it was September and we went. It was a wilderness area north of Florence, and we did a bit of research. There was a brewery there and I had a big foot shirt on. The bartender saw my bigfoot shirt and she said, are you a believer? I said yeah, and she said I never was my husband is I am? Because I saw one? So I said, where did you see one? And there's a river comes all through the woods into
the ocean, and she said. I was driving the work. We lived fourteen miles back in the woods, so I was like three miles from town. And then I thought, what is that idiot doing splashing on the water early in the morning. So I slowed down and looked, and it was a seven foot tall, black, hairy creature just slapping its hands on the water in the river, in the river, standing in the river, just splashing its hands.
And she says, well, because she called her husband. He was pissed because he's never seen one and she had. And so then we'd looked at some BFI reports reports in the area and we thought, well, this is a good area. Me and you had a beer and you said you'd taken people out there and had experiences in this area. So we figured that's a great place to do a hike. And just you know, it's a squatchy area.
You know, it's a million to one shot. And so we go into the forestry area because I'd read some stuff online it said the road in it's a two and a half mile road in and you basically go up all these switchbacks to the trailhead. It says, the most awful road you'll ever drive on. Leave your car at the bottom. Well, we thought, if we do that, that's five miles there and back just to the trailhead. You know, we're getting older, we're not doing that. So
we were going to drive that. But I go to the forest guy and I said, how bad is the road? And I told him where we were going. He'as oh, went up there in my Honda. That's a great road. I went, really, he said, oh, yeah, great road. I said, are you sure and that there was two hikes half a mile apart. One was the ridge hike, one was the creek hike. He was talking about the creek hike. I said, I get a mapper. I said, it's this one. It's the ridge hike. He went, oh, I wouldn't go
on that road. No, you can't drive that road. Thank god. We asked anyway. We drove a mile and a quarter up. Then the road got really sketchy and we go early, so it's barely light and I couldn't see. There was a big drop on the side. We've only got one vehicle. We can't go over the side. So we left the car and we walked the last mile and the quarter. Get to the top. There's a young guy pull him out in the suber at the trailhead and he was shot that. He said, where you guys walk from? I said, well,
about a mile and a half away. He said, did you leave your car at the sketchy spot? I said, yes, I did. He said, if you're real careful, you can go almost over the edge and get around it. That's what he'd done. We're not doing that in the dark. But he thought we were mushroom pickers. He said, oh, there's so many mushrooms. Are you looking for mushrooms? I said, no, we're looking for sasquats, joking, And then he looked a bit worried. He said, less slept here all night in
my car. He was a little bit worried. I said, well, did you hear or see anything? He said, not a thing, absolutely nothing. So then we say goodbye, an he left and it was really overgrown trail. I mean people hardly go up there. It was really overground. We found the trail and once you got a mile or so up it opened out a little bit, so it was quite comfortable.
We're still a single track and you've got like a deep ravine on your right hand side, and on the left hand side you've got like a twenty foot bank,
and you're going along just below the ridge. And we'd gone it was about two and a half miles, and we looked ahead and you could see a saddle area where the bank on our left disappeared, and it was just an open, an open top ridge, and we could see the wind blowing through bushes move in and Karen's like, she's always like twenty yards behind me, and we're just plodding along and I'm looking ahead. Nothing there. I just looked down at my feet because we're always looking make
sure we don't trip over. I look up again and as I look out, I jumped. Karen saw me jump. I said, what is it? And I said, I've just seen something. She said, what was it? I said, Well, it seemed to be about three or four feet tall, completely black, and it took one step and was gone. So it was from our point of view, it was going from left to right, like I come up over the ridge and was going down the other side. But I literally literally saw this little black figure on two legs.
But it was like a kid. And had we been at a campground or a populated trail, you'd have thought it was a small kid like my grandkid in a hoodie, just black from head to foot. So I think, I think I've just seen one. And it sort of shook us up a little bit, so we we'd go running up there. We looked to where it had gone. It was really thick brush going down into like a ravine, so we couldn't get down there. And we look at the other side. It was quite a wide game trail
where it had come from. I'm assuming didn't find any footprints. Spent probably thirty minutes just looking around trying to get any evidence, and I made Karen stand where I saw it. Then I went back to where I saw it, and I could see a white skin, blonde hair, orange coat. Great, I can see every color, whereas this thing was just jet black from head to foot and just two legs. It wasn't like the back of the bed. It was like a little round head. I guess it's like a little Murphy.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. Now you have grandchildren, how old if it was a human, how old would you say that child?
It would be about My youngest grandson is seven, so it would be probably eight year old. And then so I got Karen to stand now, I said, you're too tall, duck down, back down. So she duck down to exactly what I saw, and it was about three to three and a half feet. But I only saw it for you know, like a blink of an I like a second second and a half and it was like and I sort of went whoa. It made me jump because it shouldn't have been there. And it just took a
step and was gone. And so then we spent thirty or forty minutes looking around and couldn't find anything. We go about another half a mile and we said, well, let's go back. Maybe it's going to come back, who knows. We come back, there's nothing, and we got about forty yards past the spot and there's a lot of massive sicker spruce trees out there. Charenter, there's something up in this tree. You could hear branches breaking, and it was way up, but we could not see the thing. We
had binoculars. We did all we could to see what was up this tree making it. It wasn't like a squirrel, it was like loud noises, but it's way up in the top of the tree. So we're there for about ten minutes trying to get sight on this thing. And then below in the ravine we hear that awful cougar noise where they make like a whistley screamy. Yeah, it's a weird noise. We hear that, and Karen said, that's it. I'm not staying here. We'll even so as we walked away.
Then we then we had the only tree knock of the whole the whole trip. We got a tree knock as we walked away.
From that same spot where the cougar noise was.
Yes, so so well, you told me that your friend is sinner sasquatch mimica a cougar, cougar? Could it have been the mum? Maybe the baby was up the tree and the mum mimic the cougar. And did the tree knock when we left? I don't that's your speculation. I don't know.
Yeah, the tree knock is very compelling, and of course the cougar noise, I mean, the most reasonable suggestion is that it was a cougar.
That's that's what we thought. But you can knock.
But think about Lance, you know, the guests that we had on whatever episode that was, He said he had eyes on the sasquatch and it made cougar noises.
Yea.
So it was clearly imitating a cougar. And we've talked about that a lot in the show. How about sasquatches being good mimics. Just this past week, somebody reported that car door slamming again up on Lolo Pass Road. Oh yeah, two and a half miles back on some trail up there, so I think it's safe to say sasquatches are almost certainly excellent mimics. So was that indeed a sasquatch or was that indeed a cougar? But the knock coming outterwards, that's the.
Thing, and we know the trade kmark it was a cougar, and we would leave it anyway. We weren't stand around with a cougar.
But yeah, yeah, so.
That was And then I called you and you said, well, you know what you saw, And I'm like, I didn't see it for long enough to know. It wasn't like seeing Patty walk across the field. It was so quick. But there's nothing else it could have been. I mean, it couldn't have been a kid. I mean, there's no one out We were the only ones out there.
So yeah, a black furry figure on two legs and half feet tall. You saw a little roundhead and the most horrifying thing in the woods, a baby sasquatch. That wasn't the end of it, if I remember correctly, because didn't you go back to a different trail the next day?
We were this was the weirdest thing we've ever experienced. It was the other trail, Like how far away from the mean trails half a mile to a mile from this trail. This is the creek trail and the same thing. We get there real early, it's barely light. Get we get out of the car. Immediately we hear a cougar. So Karen's no, I don't you know. We don't like going if there's cougar. So I said, just just wait. We'll wait a minute. We go back in the car and she said, we'll get the thermal out. We'll have
a look with the thermal, so don't see anything. Then then we hear on the ridge crack crack crack, lots of branches snapping. No idea what it was, but it was loud. And then we hear another cougar sound from the other side of the trail. So apparently we had two cougars. Lots of tree snaps at the top like crack crack, crack crack, and then we had one tree in the middle. And we got in and out of the car twice. We kept getting the thumb all out and I said, oh, it was a creepy wood as well,
a lot of whole growth. We hadn't been there before. I said, oh, I think we should go back to the hotel. That's our that's the Kena. She said, oh, we have to do it maybe, And then at the end of it, I said, well, let's do the woop thing. And it was still something was breaking, maybe it was a bear treading on stuff, but it was loud. Now we're the only ones there and it's early in the morning, so it echoes anyway, and so so we did a
couple of whoops and the whole forest went silent. Never heard another thing all day long, and we ended up hiking ten or twelve miles. We didn't realize this singing up over ridges and we were in the middle of nowhere and we heard this incredible elk bugle and we both said, that's made the whole trip. We've never heard that in real life. And we're really excited. And we get to the top of the ridge. Two bow hunters come out of the come out of the bushes with
a bow. I said, what are you doing? They said, what are you doing? Because we're older, we're way out. They where did you come from? I said, the trailhead? You went really well? Yeah, I said, does it keep going up? He said, you're almost at the top. He said, well, we're you know, have you seen it? And I said no, but we heard the coolest one. You went, I'm real sorry that was me and it was like, oh so disappointment. But anyway, but.
You saw a sasquatch that weekend and it didn't so there you go.
So that was that was our story.
Very good. Yes, this area is a is a great spot. I went on a bfro O expedition that Chris Minier hosted many years ago and brought people into this particular area and ran across one. I got knocks and some other loud noises and such. Didn't didn't see it. Unfortunately. I kind of wonder if that saddle was the same one that I ran into one on, but the pictures look so different, right, I doubt. But it's been a long time great area though, Holy smoke's a really good area.
So we're going to do the same thing. We're going to do the Blueberry Bug the same time, me and my son, and we're going to go back to her birthday weekend at the same spot. I think these things are in the same spots year after year after year.
Yeah, I would think so too. It seems like you married well.
Yes, big time.
Yeah, she deserves the metal.
Very good.
Good job on that one.
It was actually on a sixty fifth birthday. I got Cliff to sign one of the sasquatch posters in the museum and it was signed by the artist and I gave it to a for a birthday up at the Blueberry Bug. That's a really cool picture. She's all proud, but it's science. That's a picture up in the Blueberry Bug.
That's a good date. So the one that you saw the little guy, how fast was it moving, because I know you only got a second or so.
I literally just saw it go like it was. It was fast, so I'm assuming it maybe heard us coming and just ran across the ridge.
I'm assuming so the amount of time you were looking down before you put your head up again, that was enough time for it to clear that.
Yes, because it wasn't very wide up there the saddle area. It was probably only it's not not even the length of this room, so not even twenty feet no, no, And it went down really steep and really thick brush. Yeah, maybe the thing was just hiding down there.
Yeah, if it was still running, you probably would have heard it.
So, yeah, there was no noise. We as soon as two or three seconds.
What was that?
Then we rushed down there to see if we could see anything. There was no sound whatsoever.
And how far did you say that was between you and the creature.
It's got to be about thirty yards or like one hundred feet, okay something like that.
Yeah, enough far at all?
No, no, And like I said, when Karen got in the same position, I could see everything, the color, but she was standing there posing or is this thing just it was gone?
So yeah, just thin and scrawny like a little boy.
It wasn't bulky whatsoever. It was just like like baby Murphy. That's not really bulky. That's like, yeah, it's pretty like gamely. Yeah, it was sort of like that, and just two legs. Round head did have a rounded head. Yeah. It wasn't like a hat or anything. It was like a little rounded head.
Yeah.
So no saginal crests in otherwise, which makes sense because it hasn't been developed yet.
Just a little roundhead.
Yeah.
I mean I wish I'd had longer to see it. It was just like so quick.
Yeah, so I remember when you called me so I don't know what it was as well. You'll see there's describe it again, hairy upright, covered in hair, three feet tall. It was had to be a baby sasquatch.
I don't know what it was, but at the time you're like in a bit of a panic. It's like, you know, yeah, it was funny because like what else could it be? Yeah, I know, you know, I mean, you've said Plainer's day. It was on two late.
It was two legs, and it was like a small child.
Yeah.
Yeah, And like I'm saying, it was such a quick glimpse. Had we been at a campground and probably said that I was a kid running across in the hood, but it was when Karen stood there at the same distance, I could see every color and this thing was jet black from head to foot. So yeah, And it wasn't like the back end of the bed. There was like a gap before the tree and then it just went. So it wasn't like the back end of something that was hiding in behind the tree. It was just a a little person.
Yeah, a little person. And we're just talking a few weeks ago how scary little ones would be versus big ones.
Too, so less the big one screams out there.
Yeah, for the record, to say, a big one's a lot scarier than a small one.
Perhaps it could be true because we ran up there to look for it. If it would have been a big one, we'd probably run the other way.
Yeah, yeah, I.
Hope to have a taste test some day to find out which one is scarier.
So all those all those decades of searchings, you feel like it paid off when you saw that it did.
I mean, if you look at it, if you go from nineteen eighty to now, what's that forty five years? So for all them thousands of hours in the woods out bigfoot in and hiking, we've had three or four really good incidents, which is not really a lot for all those hours in the woods, but it's still very cool.
You know.
I think Alan is a testament to persistence if nothing else. You know, he goes every weekend and not and not to see a sasquatch. He just goes to areas that happened to be squatchy for other reasons, and over the years he's been rewarded with a small number of really amazing experiences. Persistence I learned. I learned this when I took kung fu for those years. Persistence is more important
than skill because it'll come eventually, you know. Yeah, patients and persistence are the two most important things you can have as a big footer, perhaps besides curiosity.
When we saw the baby, I was teasing Melissa. I wanted to ty die in a be shirt and when I got it, I said, to it, let me see a sasquatch. I wore it that day.
Oh you're wearing the tied eye and listening.
I've got a photo of it. And I texted her so I said, excellent, it worked, and she was just laughing. I said, yeah, we saw one. Yeah, it was a tight die.
There you go.
Everybody. Everybody should buy a ti die.
We have new ones in the shop now. We are going to sell them online because everyone is distinctly different. And I know if I started selling them online people say that's not the one in the picture and complain. But if you do want one and you don't care what color you get, call the shop. We'll sell you one over the phone and perhaps you can see a sasquatch and your tight iece and mel I'll take five. Yeah, yeah,
guaranteed to see a sad watching this shirt. Well not really, not really at all, but you know what I mean. It'll certainly up your chances.
There you go, hawt to get out? Now? How happen to get out nowadays?
Maybe we go out every weekend?
You still do?
Huh oh, yeah, you know, I'm not quite that decrepit. I mean we when we do when we do, like, we do anywhere from five to ten miles, but some of it like five miles sometimes if you're off and I have a ridge, is that seems like twenty miles if it's on the flat. So yeah, we get out all the time in.
Good areas too, Like he's one of my eyes and ears in the woods that I hear from when something good is happening.
Nice.
Yeah, well, there you go, Bobs, you want to take us out?
Sure? All right, folks, we're gonna head over the pictureon now. Thanks for tuning in and listening. Thanks to Alan for coming and sharing the stories with us, And until next week, y'all keep it squatchy.
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot End Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond