Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bulbo.
These guys are your favorites, so like to subscribe and rade.
It, lip Star, shoot and.
Range.
Just on a listening watching limb always keep its watching.
And now your hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Boogle Fay.
Hey bobes. What's happening to man?
Oh? Not much, just sitting in the dark room with dark sunglasses on. Why because all my headsets are not working and the only thing I could find was this old pair of bows sunglasses that have little speakers next to come out next to you, like external speakers that come out right next to your ears, and the speakers work given with the sunglasses are just they're too small and too dark, so I never really wear them.
Oh, any chance you can take a selfie of that and send it to us, Yeah, i'd love to see that. We post on the members section or something. Then again, you also said you're in a dark room, so don't send us like a it's not dark, it's still daylight.
I was just really storming out, really dark.
I didn't want a picture that was just a you know, darkness, So I'd love to see that. Though that sounds like a lot of fun.
That would have been a good gag. You could have just sent like a jet black square and said like, yeah, that's it, that's what you asked for.
I don't know about you, but I look better in the dark.
Oh yeah.
Well, I received some good news from one of our beloved listeners yesterday. What's up if you guys recall we did a topical episode a while back and the Playing with the Boys video came up again and I'd said, you know what, somebody needs to go and edit that Wikipedia entry to reflect that that Bobo was in that video. And so one of our good members, Neil, who we've chatted with before, he said an email yesterday to the podcast and said, just figured ou'd pay the positivity forward.
So I went to the link and in the music video section of the Wikipedia entry for Playing with the Boys, that says actors James Bobo Fey, best known for the Animal Planet television series Finding Bigfoot and the podcast Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo, co presented by Cliff Barrickman and produced by Matt Pruitt, stars in this music video. Nice. So thanks to Bobo and thanks to Neil. Now Cliff and I are forever instantiated in a bit of the Logins legacy.
Kenny Loggins is a big tent and there's plenty of room for everyone here.
That's funny. If Nils listening, as I say, if Nil's listening, give you a little so I turns blue on.
There.
You know you can click a little thing, says the vows, Yeah, under our names like he linked to the Finding Bigfoot wiki entry and then to the podcast website, to Cliff's website and to my website.
So you got to get a web side up so it can click to somewhere.
Oh it is how it works, yes, sir, Okay.
Yeah, generally, but link's got to go somewhere, right, So.
Thank you so much Neil for doing that. That gave me a big chuckle. Greatly appreciate that. And say hello to your mom for us too, because she's also an avid listener, so we greatly appreciate that. I expected my life will change tremendously now that I'm part of the Logins family, and.
I just love you know, non criminal gorilla mischief, Absolutely love it. So thank you so much. That's amazing, amazing.
Thanks.
Where's this picture, Bobs? I haven't seen it yet.
See when Bobo was talking about having his Roger Patterson first editions in his safe, I thought he was joking. But I do see a safe, and I think that's where they are.
That's exactly where they are.
It's true, it's true. I've seen him. Bobo has quite the book collection. It may not be as large of a collection as some other folks in the big book community, but his, you know, the books that he has far make up for it.
And I got that one. I got a couple of books that not many people have got, like that Chinese one. The guy said, the no non Chinese, how the Chinese one, because Danny Perez was pretty pretty jealous of that.
Yeah, we picked that up in Shinozha right when we're over there. Or did you get it somewhere else?
No, there, got it from that profession. We talked to you about that.
I love the picture. Okay, I just got the picture. It looks amazing, Bob. It's just like, that's how I always want to remember you.
Nice.
Well, I had some other stuff this week happened that was kind of kind of fun. I got, you know, Toby Johnson. Oh yeah, yeah, but good friend, good guy, I've done it for a long time, you know, I go way back, he kind of. He's guy that pointed me towards the London tracks back in the days. So God, I must have met him in two thousand and eight or twenty ten or something. I don't know when, a long time ago. He lives up in the Olympic Peninsula now,
But I like the guy a lot. We've been good friends for a long time, despite our differing beliefs on sasquatches. But he texted me this past week and he brought up something that well, he basically said, Cliff, look at this or whatever, you have any thoughts on it? And go what is this? And it was a YouTube link and I, what is this?
Man?
I don't like watching bigfoot YouTube stuff. So I clicked it and it turns out it's his page. I didn't know he had a YouTube channel, but he does, and I'm gonna plug it. In fact, I'll put the same link in the map prudo, but at the same link in the show notes below. His channel is called Olympic Strange Days, Bigfoot Paranormal Everything's on the table sort of thing.
As near as I can figure, this is the only no I've seen two of his videos, but as they're both happy to do with this one topic here, so I clicked on it and basically he had access to this video that he said he's been sitting on for five years. And I said, oh, this thing again, right, because several years ago, and I don't remember what year it was, but Toby came up to me and at squatch Fest I think it was, and he goes, Cliff, look at this video I have And I go, oh, yeah, yeah,
I know that videos. It's not a real bigfoot.
He goes, what do you mean?
And I told him a little bit about it and stuff and told him what I knew about it, and it kind of surfaced again and he was thinking, Now, I don't think maybe he didn't believe me at first, or maybe it just kind of forgot or whatever. But I told him the origins of it, which we'll get into in a minute, and now he started asking other people. He has quite a few other individuals. Again, if you watch the video, he can tell you from his perspective what he went through to get to the bottom of this.
And he sent me a link to one of his videos on his Olympic Strange Days YouTube channel, and I'm looking at the text right now when he wrote feedback, who hoaxed this? And then well, it wasn't really a hoax. That's not really the right word for it. So but I think it's so odd how things just cycle back through. And basically the video is a thermal video. It appears to show a sasquatch walking through the woods being chased by either a drone or a helicopter. It was actually
a helicopter. I know the backstory of this. I've seen photographs and all that stuff, but it's basically a thermal video of a purported sasquatch taken from a helicopter. And I guess, and again, watch Toby's video. He'll tell you his version of it, like how he got it and
what he was told about it. So my details, since I've not watched the whole video of Toby's video, I've just watched the important parts and stuff, I might be a little off, but basically, somebody tried to give this to him, saying that it was a release or leaked military video or something like that taken in the nineties. I believe of a sasquatch and secret and all this sort of stuff, and it wasn't at all. It wasn't
at all. I know where this video came from. So I guess probably that's the best story to tell right now, is that this video crossed my desk in twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, somewhere in there, Chad Hammel, the field producer for Finding Bigfoot, supervising field producer, he's basically in charge of the show out in the field. He texted this to me because he got it. And this is probably at the end of twenty fourteen, early twenty fifteen, somewhere
in there. He got it from Fleer, from Fleer itself, and Fleer was clearing out there. You might remember this, Bobo as I tell more about it. Yeah, yeah, So Fleer was cleaning out their closets at the corporate headquarters there in Wilsonville, the local corporate headquarters, and they came across a VHS tape that said Bigfoot on him, That's all I said. So they popped it in and sure enough,
it just seemed to show a sasquatch wandering around. They had no idea where it was, where it was coming from, or anything like that, and so they they played it on a TV screen and then they videotaped the screen while they're watching it for the first second or third time or something like that, you know, they're watching it for the p and then they texted that the Chad Hamil and said, hey, you know what any think about this? And Chad texted it to me saying, clips you know
anything about this? And I go, no, I've never seen that before. It's really interesting. Maybe we should do an episode on it or something. And he said, yeah, maybe we should, And but we didn't have We didn't know where it was coming from. We just knew Flear found it and stuff, and no, that's interesting enough story, that's mystery and everything. So we're kind of gearing up to do one of the mount Hood episodes on this particular
piece of footage. So you know, when we shot Finding Bigfoot, we would shoot you know what, three to five episodes, and then we'd come home for a couple of weeks and like two weeks and go back on the road shoot three to five more episodes. We'd be gone for like five six weeks at a time, get home, we can have two weeks, go back on the road for five or six weeks at a time, and you know, Rinse Wash repeat for a long time. And the run we were filming before we were planning to do this
particular Mount Hood Mystery thermal video that Fleer discovered. We were shooting the main episode and I was hanging out with Lauren Coleman. I was with Lauren and his museum and just kind of shooting the poop and talking about things that are going on and whatever. And I said, Lauren, check out this video that we have that we're going to be doing something on mounta Hood we don't know anything about. We just thought it would be fun to do and kind of one of the pieces of the
puzzle here. And I showed it to Laura and he goes, looks familiar. So well, I don't remember where. I can't quite remember where I've seen that before, but I know I've seen that somewhere. I said, oh, that's interesting if you if you remember, I'd love to hear about it. Cool. And then like that day or a couple of days later, I get an email from Lauren saying, Cliff I remembered
where it was. It was from Unsolved Mysteries episode in nineteen ninety four that Peter Burn was part of, and I go, no kidding, no kidding, And which is great because you know, we almost included that as one of the things we're looking into in our Finding Big Fit episode.
I was going, there's no way that can't be real. Like I was like that, like that's that's so good, Like I thought I was. I thought I was for sure real.
Yeah, it looked pretty good. I mean now looking at it now, you can there's some telltale things. You can tell it's a suit. Short arms, well yeah, yeah, yeah. But the thing that really jumps out to me that shows us a suit is you know, again we're looking at heat right because from a limagu or you're not looking at an actual thing. And by the way, you
can see this video in Toby's YouTube thing. We're not going to post it or anything like that because we don't own it, but Toby did it and he's cool with that, so you can see it on Toby's deal. But basically, where the suit rests upon the human inside of it is the warmest part of the suit. So you can see the top part of the shoulders are much warmer than most of the rest of the body. You know, and as the animal or the guy in the suit is walking around, it gets warmer and warmer,
and that it exaggerates it more. You can basically see where the human is in contact with the suit more than the parts it's not. And that's one of the dead giveaways of a person in a suit when you're looking at them in thermal imaging.
Right.
So anyway, we had to change things around real fast and fill a hole in the episode that we kind of plugged in this particular piece of footage and stuff, and there you go. So that is the source of that video. And I told that to Toby a couple of years ago, but I guess he forgot or I was looking for more evidence of it or something, or you know. And again, just like I tell you guys all the time, you don't believe me, fact check me, please do. I tell you the truth as I remember it.
But I'm incorrect sometimes everybody is no big deal. But I'll always tell you my version of the truth. And maybe I'm in correct sometimes, but maybe that's what Toby assumed. I was just incorrect. So anyway, the sinks surfaced again this past week and I said, well, who hoaxed this? He asked, and I go, well, it's not a hoaxince from nineties, and you know, I followed up, by the way, not with Peter, but with Larry Lund at the time,
back in twenty fifteen. I forwarded it to Larry Lund and he goes, oh, yeah, yeah, I was there on that shoot. And then next time I was hanging out with Larry, because Larry and I get together a couple times a year and just hang out. And he pulled out photographs from that very shoot and it was shot on the east side of Mountain Hood and he had the pictures of the guy in the suit with the head off of it, you know, like taking a break
and getting some air. He had pictures of the helicopter and the whole nine.
You know.
It was clearly that episode Unsolved Mysteries. Whatever season it was, I don't know. I know it's on Amazon Prime though, if you do want to pull it up. Amazon Prime has it. That's where I pulled it up. So anyway, he was saying, hey, can you get any more information on it? And I said, well, it's a TV show.
It was Unsolved Mysteries.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it goes. How come I can't find the footage online and stuff? And I said, I don't know, but that's what it was. And so what I did is I pulled up the episode and kind of rewatched it. It turns out that that footage is not actually in the episode, which is part of the mystery of it, or was the mystery of it? They and you know what it is is. You know, Bobie, you'll appreciate this probably more than most of our listeners would because you've
been associated so closely with television for so long. Is that chasing a bigfoot around with the helicopter really didn't fit the storyline that they set up. The story that they set up because they were doing Peter Burns Bigfoot research project, and Peter was basically saying, look at me, I've got a helicopter in advanced thermal imaging technology. And this is in ninety four, by the way, so terms were practically unheard of at the time. This was high,
high level stuff in ninety four. You know, you can look at the quality of the footage and say, oh, yeah, that's pretty good quality therm right there, and for ninety four it's outrageous. You know, that was a very expensive unit back in the day. And Peter was basically saying, yeah, look at the tech I have in case you want to give my nonprofit more money and stuff, and like, look what we can do. And that's what that was
the hook of this particular segment. You know, Peter Burns Bigfoot research project, which was based out in Parkdale on the east side of Mount Hood and the story of the episode. When you watch the episode of Unsolved Mysteries, it's, yeah, we're here with this cracked team of bigfoot nerds and whatever else, and they're doing a run through, a practice run chasing a fugitive because chasing a fugitive will give us more practice on chasing a real bigfoot when that
time comes. So apparently they filmed both them, and you can see the footage of the guy running through the trees and everything. But in the footage you'll see on Toby's page there, it's actually a guy in a bigfoot suit. Now, the thing is, you can see the GPS coordinates in both pieces of footage, see the date stamp, and you can see the time stamp on both pieces of footage. The GPS coordinates are almost identical, the date is obviously
the same, and the time stamp itself. I think the Bigfoot stuff was like five minutes later, three to eight minutes later, somewhere there, you know. So it was shot right after the dude running through the woods for practice, because you aren't going to put a helicopter down and then put it back up. You're just going to make a guy run because helicopters are too expensive for that
sort of thing. So they filmed the dude running through which is the actual footage that they used in the episode, and then they filmed the Bigfoot stuff which they never used in the episode, which is you know, makes sense to me because and I'm sure Bobo too, because we're you know, we did TV for so long, a lot of the stuff ends up on the cutting room floor, so to speak. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages.
So three to six months doesn't seem like a long time right in bigfoot Land, it's not very long because we've been looking for sasquatches for decades and decades and decades. But when you think about what can happen in three to six months, like, what would you do in three to six months? I'm gonna give me six months, go squatching squad of course, of course, and how much do you think is going to get done during that time?
In squatching, you're gonna see one in six months, probably not, but in three to six months, what you can see if you're not going to see a sasquatch is thicker, fuller hair regrown from Hymns our sponsor. Hymns not bad for just three to six months.
What if you start using Hymns now in six months, just imagine that thick, full crop up there.
Yeah, because Hymns will give you a convenient access to a range of hair loss treatments that work, all from the comfort of your couch.
They make it pretty simple, man. They use real doctors. It's clinically proven ingredients on the use like finesteride and Monoxville.
And I love that. I had no doctor visits because first of all, doctors who wants to go see a doctor? Nothing personal doctors. But also you make an appointment now you get in August or something forget that. So this process is simple and one online. And I know you have access to the internet because you're listening to us right now.
You can pick how you want to do it, like chewables, oral spray, serum, treatments, whatever, whatever you want. I mean, they can work with you in customersage, with your preferences.
Yeah, like it could be a one time thing, it could be ongoing care. No insurance is needed at all, and it's all at one low price and that covers everything from these treatments to the ongoing care if you so choose.
Well, nonway. I said, the proofson the pudding, and there's hundreds of thousands of subscribers that trust it and you know, give it positive reviews. So there you go.
There's your pudding, thick hairy pudding. Search your free online visit today at hymns dot com slash beyond.
That's hi ms dot com slash beyond for your personalized hair loss treatment options.
Hymns dot com slash beyond.
Results vary based on studies of topical and oral monoxidil and finasteride. Prescription products required an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine if prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information.
So I got to show all this stuff to Toby, and he happened to be driving through town. So he's at the museum and I pulled up the you know, the Unsolved Mysteries episode. Then I put the footage, the version I have, I had it for years and years and years, and my hard drive right next to it, and I pointed out the GPS, I pointed out the Times stuff, and I pointed out this and that, and there you go. And so one more misidentification of a piece of footage, I guess has been put to bed.
And by the way, the reason I'm bringing this up is not only because it's Bigfoot related and finding Bigfoot related, and you know, it's not really a hoax because it was a recreation filmed for a TV show, right, so they didn't intend for it to be a hoax. But since Toby posted this like last week, you know, this past week, I should say, what is it today? Wednesday? I think Toby was in the town on Sunday or so. I don't know. This last week he started posting all this.
It's already crossed my desk twice on social media, on emails and stuff, people saying, look at this cliff. Is it real? That's military blah blah blah, is it out? Oh my god, is this real? Cliff? So people are now repurposing this footage that was filmed as a recreation and saying that it is a military thing or somebody filmed this or has been leaked or whatever. And and I'll tell you now that is hoaxing. The footage itself is not a hoax because it was never intended for
it to be a hoax. But people who are out there saying that it's real and this is the backstory and all this other stuff that could very well cross that line, that fuzzy line into hoaxing. So be careful what you believe out there. And I'm sure that this is not going to be the end of this particular
piece of footage. It will continue to resurface. Now that it has been put out in the public realm, people are going to grab it, and you know, as people ebb and flow through the Bigfoot community, over the next five or eight years, we will continue to see this particular piece of footage. But let it be known that it is not real. And you know, I mean I Bubba and I both saw it and we thought, oh,
that looks amazing, but it is not real. It was It's not truly a hoax until someone purports it to be from something that it is not and they know better then that's hoaxing. But anyway, you know, one of the cool things about this is that in Toby's video that you can watch that because it'll be in the show notes, he offers this really cool carved bigfoot head as a prize for whoever can can solve this mystery, and he gave it to me. I didn't. I told him, dude,
you didn't have to do that. I mean, he's a chainsaw carver now as part of his living. You don't have to do that. Man, we're friends, and you know, I just tell you. I just I'm glad the truth is out there. But he said, no, no, no, this is cool. I'm excited about it. And you know, I told everybody I would do it, and I want to do it. So I accepted it as a donation to the North American big Foot Center. So now I have two, actually have three pieces of art from Toby Johnson in the museum,
and I couldn't be happier about it. And it was nice to hang out with Toby again because I just loved the guys had a lot of fun. So we'll be posting some of this stuff to uh probably do the members. I'm guessing right through it.
Yeah, that's the easiest place to host all that stuff.
Yeah, so I'll send you a couple of pictures of the head and stuff like that, and I'll send that to you right now, Matt, and there you go. So that's kind of some of the big news that was happening in this past week in my life. At least I want a cool bigfoot head. There will be a picture of it on the for the members, of course. And yeah, I got to get to the bottom of another mystery like any like any good hardy boy would well done.
Yeah, I saw that video. I got, I got, I got like several texts and emails going like, dude, if you've seen this as this is insane. I was like, that's mystery solved already, like over ten years ago.
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of It was funny to see it again. It's like, well, of course that's going to come around again. And so I thought it'd be a good idea to talk it, spend a little time on our podcast here getting out to a lot of people's ears that if you see this, don't believe it, don't get all excited about it, and diffuse the misinformation. This has been put to bed thanks to Lauren Coleman. Straight out. Thank you to Lauren Coleman because he recognized it. I
did not when I first saw it. It didn't sound like you did either, Bob. So like, Lauren saved us in a lot of ways, because not only would that have been an embarrassment, but then again, at the same time, you know, that footage was never actually aired, which is part of the reason it didn't look familiar, But it looked familiar enough because of the other stuff chasing the dude through the forest that Lauren clued in on it. So it hats off to Lauren for putting the pieces
together for us. And like, imagine the embarrassment of finding Bigfoot doing that and then finding out that another television production actually owned that footage, you know, and then finding Bigfoot put it out. That'd be hilarious. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
The same old videos and pictures resurface every year because the turnover rate in Sasquatchree is so high that there's always like a bevy of brand new people who haven't been exposed to this stuff. And what people do, like in this case, is they're like, oh, I received this. It was a leak from you know, they changed the backstory. You remember that picture of a I think it was a melanistic leopard. I think it was from Africa, although it might have been a melanistic jaguar in South America.
Either way, it was taken in like an enclosed environment. But it's been around for like twenty five years on the internet, and everyone's like, oh, yeah, my cousin got this in his backyard in Texas, Georgia, Tennessee, Arizona, Arkansas. You know, it doesn't matter where. People just find those pictures reposted and act like, you know, they're the ones who uncovered it, and there's a whole new group of people to go, oh.
My god, this is amazing.
This guy took this in his backyard, or you know, Toby received leaked intel from the military, or whatever the case may be. You know, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Again, a lot of this on YouTube and the internet and social media and stuff. I don't pay too much attention to any of that stuff. But Toby was given me was speaking in such a way that led me to believe that there's a fair number of people that think this is real footage. Out there, you know, so it'll be interesting to see who goes to the mat for to say that this is real, and you know,
all that kind of stuff. But not that I'll ever hear about it or care necessarily, But I just think it's so funny that people would stick to their opinion. You know, I'm assuming, maybe I'm hopefully I'll be just wrong about this, but I would expect some people to stick to their opinion instead of the facts, because their opinion to them are facts.
There were people who sent that or even in the past, things like that, and you know, they'll take it pretty hard when you deflate them, and then they'll say things like, oh God, but I wish it was real, And we have a saying here in the South, and I'll clean it up for the air. But you know, you can wish in one hand and poop in the other and wait and see which one fills up first.
I love that saying.
Yeah.
I mean, there was one a guy sent me a couple of years ago. That was the two thousand and eight Rick Dyer Matt Whitten Bigfoot Body in the Freezer hoax. That someone sit a guy who calls himself a sasquatch researcher sent me that pictures like, oh my god, have you seen this? And I was like, dude, really.
Well, yeah, things like that surface all the time all the I've seen some footprints like that as well. And then every once in a while something really throws a curveball at me where it's something I recognize, but a different version of it that isn't put out there as a hoax but just mistaken identity. I think I meant maybe mentioned this couple maybe a couple months ago, like two or three months ago. Yeah, I must have, because Meldrum sent me a photograph of a footprint in the
ground from that. He said it was from sixty eight or sixty nine or something. I think it was sixty eight, and it was it was clearly a Patterson Gimlin footprint, you know, And I say, oh, this might be the first evidence of that animal being tracked after the film, you know. But it turns out that it was another photograph from when Jim McLaren went there, not Jim McLaren.
Lyle Laberty. Yeah, Lyle Laberty went there, so somebody else on his crew took a picture, or maybe Lyle Laborty took another one that i'd never been published, but it was literally one of those same footprints in the ground that Lyle Laberty photographed, but a different angle at it
that I'd never seen before. So there's stuff out there that every once in a while surfaces, and this has bad information on it, because that was whoever sent it to Meldrum said that Forrest Service took it, and I think it was I think he claimed that he took it, or one of somebody in his family or something, but it was in sixty eight and that was incorrect, and I think Meldrum went back and said, actually, this isn't sixty eight, it was sixty seven, and the guy kind of like, well,
I'm not sure that's accurate, but it clearly was. You could see the same rocks in the picture, and it was clearly a Patty footprint.
Yeah.
So there's all sorts of different iterations of that sort of phenomenon, like the same things being recycled for the public in various ways, with various backstories, some nefarious like straight up made up, some just repeated from somebody else who made it up, and then some just erroneous.
I see it a lot with some of the new content creators too, because they're always looking for new things to post or talk about, so they'll resurrect old things that they don't realize our hoaxes and put it out to their audience like hey, what do you guys think of this? Where it's like, hey, if you had looked into that for five seconds, you would have had the correct thoughts about it.
But oh well, yeah, well, social media really is about the quick and easy, you know, I mean, you can. I love that. I saw something years ago when I paid more attention to it. It was some sort of inflammatory headline on an article that, if you read it, points out that nobody reads articles but gets all beat out of shape at headlines. And it was great because you look at the comments and they just they fed
right into it. They totally fell for the joke dash trap that they that was set for them, and it was absolutely hilarious. I just loved it. But you know again, social media is for the quick and easy. Frankly, it's for the lazy in my opinion, Like you like, if you don't you don't want to know something, go on social media. They'll tell you all about what you don't want to know.
I think that's why we don't really post much short form content because we're not for that attention span. You know, I'm not interested in appealing to that sort of attention span. Things that are really complex and rich. You can't just flatten it into some like two dimensional three second long, five second long presentation. Like no, if you if you want to hear what this is about, you might have to listen for an hour, but then you'll fully understand it.
But no, you can't just condense it to some short form thing. I think people are creating a lot of short form stuff, so you see it everywhere. But most people when they get on those apps like YouTube or podcast like, they want to hear in depth discussions or analyzes or explorations of the subjects that they're interested in. They don't just want to scroll through reels and clips
all day. They want to dig in. I mean, we've been running for six years and have tens of thousands of subscribers on the audio platform, so of which I'm exceedingly extremely grateful. So I think that's a testament to that. Like, No, I don't think everybody just wants you know, quick clips thankfully.
Yeah, Well, let's hope I'm glad. I'm glad that that seems to be true. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. Well you know enough about that. I mean, I think that was an important thing to go over because people will be seeing this footage out there and now you know, now you know, and you can help stop the spread of misinformation, you know, from people who say that they know where this came from and whatever else.
And somebody's gonna say Cliff is full of it. I'm not full of anything, man, except for facts. At this one. You can we can prove this one. So don't don't let anybody who's poopoing this. I've got no dog in this fight. Sure I want a cool carving, but that's the end of it. But anyway, well, this is actually a topical episode and for the last half hours, so we're going to dive into a couple of these topics and get through as many as we can, and then we'll run off and do a members episode with a
couple of those things in it. But for now, let's start with this one article here.
Where is it?
Let me pull it up? Okay, this one is Manga Bay is the name of the publication and the article's title is camera traps capture first glimpse of genetically distinct chimps in Southwestern Nigeria. And to summarize this pretty much, basically, there's a very very genetically distinct species of chimpanzee that is out there in Nigeria in its place called what is it key or E C E S. I think it is.
As cool as the only indigenous grassroots conservation organization in all of Nigeria. And they're the ones that got the footage. That's a good score for them.
Absolutely.
You want to know where the habits of been animal, you talk to a local person. Yeah, yeah, but this particular article is cool and it's very hopeful because they had not gotten pictures of these things, and they were going around telling the local people saying, hey, we have to change our ways because these this rare species of chimp is out here. But they had not captured any video of them. They had not captured any photographs of them.
They're just saying, I think they're here. And then the local people were not willing to stop their habits because they weren't so sure. And I think That's one of the one of the big takeaways from this article is that I think, I guess one of the things that like that there's a lot of land use for you know, like marijuana cultivation in this particular area.
Yeah, surprised to see that. I was like, what in Nigeria there's a weed growing region, had no idea.
Yeah, and of course we'd growing I just a plant and everything, but a lot of the chemicals that are used in it are really damaging into the environment, you know, I guess a lot of the fertilizers in particular or whatever, and it's a very nutrient hungry plant, I guess. So, yeah, they were kind of screwing up a lot of land and taking a lot of the habitat from these chimpanzees for marijuana and other things as well. They're just damaging
the environment. But now that they got a picture of one of these things, the local people are saying, oh okay, oh yeah, now we're with you. Now we can help out. Now that we know that what's up, we're happy to do some stuff and change our ways a little bit to help these chimpanzees because it is a very endangered species. Chimpanzee or a type of chimpanzee or sub subspecies. I guess they estimate there's about twenty five of these things
living in an area of about eight thousand acres. Now eight thousand acres sounds like a lot, and it is, don't get me wrong, But I didn't know how much it was, so did little math. It's twelve point five square miles, you know, so something about three and a half miles on a side, like a square that big.
Twenty five chimpanzees are living in that big or small of an area, which I think is a big takeaway as well, because you think with that limited of a range, people would be seeing these things more often.
Right Yeah, I think the bush meat hunters is the biggest problem for those guys there, because that's a smaller to be a bush meat hunter.
Oh yeah, in twenty five you know, twenty five animals wouldn't get you very far if that's what you lived on, right yeah, But pretty cool, Pretty cool, And you know, a lot of the comment in this article is about how the habitat is just really damaged in a lot of ways. Here's a quote. The forest was badly degraded, and the chimps were mostly found along the forest by the river, which makes a lot of sense because that's where the richest habitat is going to be. That's where
most of the food is going to be. Food, water cover, that's what all the animals need. But even then, these things were not seen very often, and a lot of the people who lived there didn't even think there were any in there. And now that's all changed with a couple of good photographs. And what could that mean for sasquatch? Kind of the same thing, I think, kind of the
same thing. If Warehouser shared a picture that they got, or somebody like you or me, or somebody got a game camera picture across the road from Warehouser Land, maybe that would change something. It would certainly not make Warehouser very happy, I'm sure, because they don't want to change anything. Warehouser, of course, is a big logging company out here in the Pacific Northwest. I don't know if there are.
The nationwide matt you have them in the South. I'm not certain if Warehouser is in the Southeast. I mean, I've seen that name a lot, but there's other big timber companies like you know, obviously in Georgia. You've got a lot of Georgia Pacific land and then ray and Eer is another big one.
But you know, I've seen Warehouser a lot, but I couldn't tell you from memory, like which states I've seen that and if it was just in the Northwest or not.
Yeah, I kind of have to wonder, like if there were a couple there were a couple really good pieces of footage or pictures or something, and people, even if it wasn't a proven species yet sasquatches weren't exactly academically accepted. What that might do to the land use folks, you know,
would they change their ways at all? Because that's one of my great hopes about the discovery of the sasquatch, the academic acceptance, the recognition of the sasquatch, is that it's ironically it would leave humans with an opportunity to leave a smaller footprint on the environment. I like to play on words. I like the idea and I also like the outcome if that's true. But I don't know, if you know, our profit driven society would do that. I don't know.
Yeah, I was trying to see and here if they specified, like how many cameras were used in the study, you know, the distribution of those cameras, because there's certainly lessons to be learned here. I mean, we'd be so lucky as to be able to focus on an area of that size that had as many as twenty five individuals in it. I think twelve square miles eight thousand acres might be like one quarter of one individual's range, you know, at least in certain forests in North America. So it's still
a difficult proposition. But it would be interesting to know how many cameras they use, like and of how many cameras, how many captured this individual or individuals, how long the cameras were deployed before they got results. I think there'd probably be a lot to learn from that. I just don't see that in this particular article.
Yeah, that would be a useful data, that's for sure, to kind of compare notes there. Yeah, because I don't, I mean, I'm I personally don't really I'm not seeing that sasquatch habit like a range is really really big, you know, at least for the female young pairs. And and again I don't have a lot of data. I've got three areas and I've barely scratched the surface of
either one. But you know, I think eight miles on the side, so sixty five square miles or something like that, or sixty four square miles or maybe less, maybe more. One hundred square miles is probably reasonable for a little family group. I don't really know. I don't really know, but it would be interesting to compare notes like that.
Absolutely, no, it was a fascinating article though. It was very cool to see that. I think you had sent that one in, but you both might have. There's a lot of times when you will both send in an article that you stumble across, and so I just you know, when i'm compiling them, grab one of the links, because every once in a while there will be a duplicate. It might be two different media outlets covering the same finding or the same news item or something like that.
But it was interesting. I think it'd be a lot to learn from that. But I'm always interested in that technical side, like what kind of cameras were they using, how many? How well hidden were they? Were they just strapped the trees, they use other methods of hiding them? Were they out there for days or weeks or months before they captured these images, you know.
You know when I was talking to years ago, I did I did Lauren Coleman's conference, you know, the his museum thing out there in the east, the northeast somewhere, and doctor Annaacaris was on the gig with us, and so I got to know her a little bit, and she had a lot of early interesting things to say, of course, but one of the things that she mentioned is that well, whatever you guys are doing, it's not working,
so try other things. And some of the things one of the things that I remember she said was like she literally said, throw a rock and wherever it lands, put a camera there. It's like wow really, so yeah, yeah, just it's a way to do random sampling in a way, So do that. It's like, no, kidding, unbelievable. Yeah. So I'd like to love to have a chance to pick her brain again, since she has so much field time in Sumatra studying that other little thing that she says,
he's ad nocturnal primate that she's studying out there. So yeah, anyway, a lot of different ways to approach the game camera thing. It'd be really interesting to find out what these folks were doing.
When I spoke with Gareth Patterson the first time that I interviewed him. He made it really because he made an observation in the book that I brought up that I wanted to dive into, and it was really interesting.
His takeaway was that basically, you know, as someone who's pursued animals in the wild, especially like rare, elusive animals, he said, sometimes I think that our presuppositions, whether conscious or unconscious, or explicit or implicit, are actually taking us further away from where they're most likely to be encountered
than we think. And he had said, like when he first started pursuing the elephants there and the Nisne forests, you know, he would find tracks and he would find dung, and you know, he was constantly revisiting these places, but he couldn't he couldn't have a sighting. He was trying to lay eyes on him. I think maybe once or twice he had caught, you know, a glimpse of like a patch of gray skin through the brush as one
got away from him. And then he just said, you know, one day, randomly, his girlfriend and him were going to go walk the dog, and she was like, why don't we just go walk them up in the forest instead of you know, around the neighborhood or whatever the case was. And so they drove up there and got out. We're walking the dog down the road at time that he wouldn't usually be out there and in a place he wouldn't usually go looking, and he watched a mother and
a calf. They watched it through binoculars out in the open for like an hour. And he had said, you know, I was looking for elephants when I had the old tongue siding. And when I started looking for the old tongue, I started seeing the leopards. And then I'd start looking for the leopards and I'd run into the elephants. And so there is that sense of like you can't find
something when you're looking for it. But you know, he didn't have that sort of like supernatural metaphysical take on it as much as he said, you know, sometimes I just think that we make all these decisions based on our assumptions and they're just wrong. And you know, if you if you practice something that's more random, your odds
actually go up. Like instead of planning for days and weeks, like I'm going to go to this spot and stake out this area and this that, So there could be something to that with camera placement or who knows what else too.
I think it's an interesting I think that's a really good take on things, and it kind of mirrors the experience of long term witnesses, you know, the people who live out in the woods and occasionally have sasquatches around. It's when they break their own habits that they actually see these things.
You know.
I was having a conversation with with someone who listens to the podcast about a good ways to do it, and this person was kept suggesting go to the same place, the same time and whatever, every single every single week, the same things every single week, and that way it adds like a baseline, a scientific rigidity, I guess, you know, like a method that other people can follow and stuff. And I'm thinking that I don't know if that. I mean, yeah, yeah,
sure that would be good. But all you're gonna what you're gonna get, maybe not all you're gonna get, but what you're mostly going to get are the animals who have their habits that happen to the coincide with yours, and certainly sasquatches have these habits, but I'm not so sure they're as predictable as mine, you know, So I don't know. I think that the best Bigfoot stuff comes from being at the wrong place when nobody expected it,
you know. I really think that, so, yeah, because I mean after going to the spot now for four years or something, there's not a lot of patterns developing.
Well, it's just like Paul Freeman with he saw that one and filled that one because he went there in the morning, because he went out of his he wasn't on his normal pattern. He went like an off time.
Yeah, he went later. He went flowers later than normal on that particular day, and maybe the sasquatches were getting used to it. I don't know. I don't know. It's hard to say. I do think that randomness and luck are something that really come into play in Bigfoot, at least for sure. That's just that's my feeling on it at least. But again, data would be nice, but there's not enough data to really compare much with right now.
So I just try once a week. I don't always go on the same day, and I don't even go to I try to go to the same two places every single week, and then if I have time I go somewhere else too, or if I go back for a second day, I go somewhere else. That sort of thing that's been helping a little bit, but again not as much as I'd like. I haven't put my eyes on one yet, So we'll see. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back. After these messages.
We all say this one from Nature dot com. I'm home or just adapted to step desert climate extremes one million years ago? About how they they assumed that they were, you know, in really narrow specific spots that you know, like like a little ecological niche that they didn't habit, but they were much more like the almost they thought, like, we knew homebos savings went all over the world, but we didn't know that Homo erectus was able to adapt to different extremes of climate as much as as much
as they were. They don't know from this this paper they're talking about.
Yeah, of course, when you look at the article, the places that they lived make a lot of sense because that would be the places where the most food is and the most variety, like the fluvial landscapes where the you know, the rivers are flowing out of the mountains or whatever into the desert the environment. Actually, I learned what fluvial stuff was when I visited Death Valley, because
that's where you can see that kind of thing. It's basically a river coming out of the high lands and then spreading out widely like a fan across the flattered desert, usually desert like environments. That's what fluvial landscapes are. And of course that's that's where the water is. That's where flooding is going to be. So it's gonna be a lot of interesting to be washing down from the woods, from the hills. There's that's where a lot of the
animals are going to be hanging out. And and at least and I remember in Death Valley, I went to the wonderful museum they have there. That's where most of the human artifacts also came from, which makes a lot of sense because Homo erectus almost sapiens. They're gonna there's a lot of overlapping niche there. There's a lot of overlapping needs and just preferences really, so, uh, the fact that Homo erectus is doing this, it just again hats
off to Homo erectus because they are they were. I think that they're kind of the champions.
Man.
They are the as far as I know at least, I could be incorrect, and if I am, please tell me. But I think that they're the probably the most successful hominin species. I mean, they they they were around for a long long time, way longer than we are, you know. I mean, because we've been around for about three hundred thousand years I think is the number that the people are thinking at this point, and that might change and we might have been around longer. We'll see about three
hundred thousand years for Homo sapiens. But I mean Homo erectus was around for millions, right, like at least a million or.
Two two million years there you go.
Yeah, so that's that's that's like seven times longer than we've been around.
Yeah, two million years, that's that's that's incredibly long. I mean, we're not going to I doubt we're going to reach that record.
Yeah, yeah, I don't think so either. Yeah, but again it goes back to adaptability. These things were smart enough to adapt to their environment. Of course, they had tools, they had fire, they had all that sort of stuff. But they were adaptable to the changing environments. You know, there was a climate change during that time that affected them. They adapted to different biomes in different source of habitats and different food resources, and they spread out all throughout Asia,
in Africa and Asia, but they were very successful. I'm kind of surprised they didn't make it to North America at some point. I guess maybe the land Bridge wasn't around when they're when they're in their heyday. I don't really know. But really astonishing the species in many many ways. And remember this is one of my favorites, just because the type specimen, the holotype, the first one ever discovered that told us that these things existed at all, came
from Southeast Asia. But yet we found out later that they're older versions in Africa. So it really really neat species to study and we can learn a lot from. So they weren't specialized. I don't think they Probably groups of them were, like cultures of them were, but they weren't. They clearly as a species itself, they didn't. It didn't rely on one thing like pandas rely on bamboo or something like that. They didn't rely on one thing which enabled them to be so successful and spread over such
a huge area. And I would argue that sasquatches and their ilk are the same way. They're smart enough, they're to get outside their their niche niches. They're not dependent on one particular kind of food or plant that if that food or plant went extinct or couldn't find it, they'd all die. Sasquatches liked home like homeorect this have ecological flexibility essentially, is what it comes down to. And that's what allowed them, allows them to be so successful.
And whether the sasquat or the Yawi or the yarin in China or anywhere else in the world, you know, that kind of thing, if those are sasquatches or not, it shows that hominins are smart enough not to be paint, not to paint themselves in an ecological corner. You know.
It's a very good at niche switching. Yeah.
Yeah, Well, you gotta wonder if if like some other hominins, you know, and what we what little we know about them when we're looking at the you know, what trace evidence we have these other hominins. Maybe it's like you know, toothwear or tools that are found in association with them.
You got to wonder if this specialization that might be perceived by we humans looking at whatever little evidence we have right now, if actually the specialization just this is more of an incomplete look at the archaeological evidence than true ecological limits. I suspect that Hominin's, being as smart as we are, probably were much more flexible I think than many maybe current day paleoanthropologists give them a credit for.
And the ones that were not flexible had the shortest evolutionary existence before their particular branch, you know, bit the dust.
That's the advantage of generalists is, you know, generalized omnivores, which at least with Gigantipithecus, we know that they had a very broad, diverse diet, even though they weren't necessarily omnivorous, or at least we don't have the evidence of omnivary, but within like an herbivorous diet, very very broad, massive array of food stuff. So they certainly weren't the bamboo
specialists that they were once thought to be. That's the advantage that generalists like that have is that you know, they have the ability to occupy multiple different environments and do adapt and to be flexible, not only have dietary flexibility, but to also be able to inhabit these different environments.
So it was fascinating to read this particular article about Homo erectus for sure, and think about what clearly has to be the most flexible species that's ever existed, being Homo sapiens and all the niche switching that we do constantly, not only across evolutionary time, but in modern day as well. So I think there are a lot of implications for the sasquatch and other mystery apes like you mentioned.
Well, yeah, and you know, it makes me wonder since home Erectus was so amazingly successful, I've heard that they are around very very recently. I think that most of the most of the stuff you're going to find online indicates they went I don't even I don't know when they went extinct.
They said one hundred and twenty thousand years ago.
It's pretty recent, man. And certainly if that's if that number is what is generally thought to be true, that certainly wasn't the last home erectus. You got to wonder if any of these mystery apes around the world, you know, these sasquatch like critters and various corners of the globe, if any of them are relic homo erectus in some sort of way, I mean, Neanderthals and Dennis Opens, those might be the almisty or who knows what's going on
over there, right, But maybe they're homo erectus. I mean, you just don't know. Because these things are around for a long long time. What could cause something that's so adaptable and so smart and all that to go extinct? But then again, you know, like they're not apparently these whatever these things are in Eastern Europe and all that stuff, they're not using fire, So it seems kind of weird that they would let they would not be using fires still if they were still around, and I think home
Erectus had fire, right, I'm pretty sure it did. Seems like that's an awfully useful adaptation to just get rid of.
If you're on the run, though, if you're on the lamb, like you know, like an escape beer, you know, prisoner war, whatever, you don't light fires because i'd say, you get found.
Yeah, yeah, maybe it's a conscious decision. But or they and they just lost the technology, is what you're suggesting, because of their clandestine lifestyle.
Yeah, I think I think that that could have that could account for if that's if these things are then like if they do try to be something that we know in the record, that fossil record that had the ability to use fire, then I mean, I know of people swear they still the Bigfoot still use fire, but I don't think they do that's the reality at all,
But it could be. I mean it could have been, like you know, if if every time they had a fire they had guys with spears showing up, they might quit doing that.
I guess it's true. Yeah, I did a quick search. I got one hundred and eight to hundred and seventeen thousand years ago for home erectus. So it's a blink of an eye. Man, it's a blink of an eye. And those are certainly are not the last home erectus that survived.
So no, yeah, I was a fire one or so small. How long is erectors around? For two million years? And how much how much do you think you could you can even fill up a bedroom with the amount of bones you have of erectus I have imagine, I mean, I know we have a lot of like more so than I think any other ancient species of hominin.
But I think they have more Naliti than any of the species. And that's just mostly all from the Rising Star Cave because they were preserved down there.
So so yeah, so in two million years, we don't know really that much about I mean, they got more of Nalidi and that's I mean that would fill up what not even not even like a closet. It would take to hold like a toad probably like you know, like a storage toat could hold.
It all, probably like a truck bed or something for Naldi.
Yeah, that they're around for what four hundred thousand years of Nalidi.
I don't know how long they were around for.
I don't know. I think that the Nalidi isn't is a Naliti just known from that one site.
Yes, but there's many, many individuals.
Well still, you got to wonder, like what what what kind of forces would drive home erectos if they were so darn good at doing what they do, you know.
Yeah, it looks like with Naliti there are one five hundred and fifty bones representing seven hundred and thirty seven different skeletal elements and at least fifteen different individuals, So I'm trying to see what the case is with Erectus.
Hats off to home Erectus.
He's a real stand up guy, nice, excellent as a dad joke Cliff could be proud of I am proud of you.
It's my boy.
That's more like your dirty uncle joke.
Clif the dad bobo's the dirty uncle.
Well, there's a couple of other articles, and we did get some a few additional questions from the Honorary Pigeons over there on Patreon, So I don't know whenever you guys feel like hopping over to that side of the conversation to dig into some other things, but one of which was submitted by a member, and occasionally listeners do submit articles. But yeah, I would definitely encourage more of you.
If you come across something that you think is rather squatchy, even if it's not directly squatch related, but you think it's relevant, please send it in because you know, we're always accumulating these, and it'd be great to see more of those come in from listeners for sure.
Yeah, and you know what occurred to me, and it says we're kind of closing down shop here and moving over to the member section, and of course if you want to be a member, hit that link and do all that stuff, because you get these episodes with zero commercials in them at all, and you also get a bunch of extra stuff like pictures and links and all this other stuff. You get a picture of Bobo wearing sunglasses and ear like all that kind of stuff, all
the fun stuff that you hear is talking about. It's only for the members. But you know what occurred to me is we're still selling T shirts and hoodies. We never talk about that. We never ever talk about that, and it might be a good thing because how fun is it to see these things out in public at conferences. So I'd like to push that just for a second, if you don't mind, go to sasquatchprints dot com and hit the link that says Bigfoot and Beyond and you
can buy Bigfoot and Beyond like merchandise and stuff. You know. I mean, it doesn't make us a lot of money or anything. That's mostly fun. I think we make like like two or three bucks a shirt. It's not a really big money thing for us. You've really got to understand that the joy of it is seeing these things at conferences, and so check this out. I've got a bunch of conferences coming up. I'm going to be in mountain Hood here second week I think in April. I'm
going to be in Esta's Park in Colorado. A week or two after that, I'm going to be to the Ohio conference first weekend in May. I'm doing Charlie Raymond's conference out in Kentucky the last weekend. I've got a lot of stuff coming up. If you come to the table and you're wearing a Bigfoot and Beyond shirt or hoodie or something like that, I'll give you a free sticker. So if you want to do that, feel free to come up and say, hey, look at me. Remember you're
gonna give me a sticker, right, and I will. I'll give you a free sticker. So come on up to the table. We're in the merch, and you know, eat a free sticker. I just think it's fun to see these things. We'll take a picture together, we'll put on the member section. It'll be fun. So go to sasquatchprints dot com and get your Bigfoot Beyond merch.
Okay, yeah, I love seeing those. Yeah.
We have forgotten to mention that for a while I always put the link in the show notes of every episode, but I've forgotten to mention it. And then when I was with you at the NABC in January, Brandon and another artist friend of his were there and they were designing a new shirt right then and there for one of my suggestions. So hopefully that thing's ready to roll out, because they had did a pretty cool design when I was there.
Okay, well, kind can reach out to him and spur him on a little bit. See what's going on with that? So yeah, sasquashprints dot com. Hit that link, buy a shirt if you feel like it, and come up and see me. You'll get a free sticker. So that's kind of fun, all.
Right, I guess that. Bigfoot and Beyond thanks for joining us, all right, folks, Well until next week. We'll see you then, But until then, y'all keep it squatchy.
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond Podcasts. You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond. That's an N in the middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond.