Ep. 285 - Clobo's Overflow Questions!

wanted to get down there. It's kind of like revisiting, you know, the Holy Land.

Lighterman was there. So it turns out to instead of spending three nights alone at Bluff Creek, I got to spend a night at Buff Creek. Was some of my best friends and it was awesome. Just loved it.

or perhaps it was just too quiet. And you know, recorders don't get everything, that's for sure. So yeah, he heard some stuff responding, but I never did. I never did, although when I was out there walking around, you know, both at night and also during the day. There was

some stuff happening. You know. We were at the water spot and there was a big marsh there and I was at the I guess it would be the northwest side of that, one of those marshes, and there was something on the hill above me, and I say, and it's probably a bear, because I mean there are tons and tons of bear there. I mean, everywhere you look, it's you can find bear prints. It's ridiculous how much bear is there, which is probably why the Sasquatch is pop by. And then later on that day, I was

walking the roads. I was out there alone, walking the roads up and down on the side because the roads that are all chewed up at this moment because they've been doing so much road work. And I've been ranting, like, what a fantastic opportunity this is to find footprints at Bluff Creek. If you're interested in tracking, everybody should go to Bluff Creek and check it out. Because the roads I don't think I been this good for tracking, probably

since the sixties before they graveled them. But anyway, when I was out there, I got some weird knocky sort of out noises. I mean, there are a lot of things are falling from the tree ease, of course, but I mean these sounded stronger than just something falling from the trees. And it came from the same general area as I was hearing something moving around on the hill above me, so I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there was one there. It was neat. It was a

lot of fun going there. I haven't been there. I went to Bluff last year in September, I think it was, or maybe the year before. Maybe it's been two years. I don't remember. Two years ago, yeah, but I didn't I didn't camp there. I camped at Laus Camp and I went to the film site and all that other stuff. And I didn't do either of those things this year. I wish I did. I really wanted to get down

the Lauds, but I just enough time. The next morning, after Bart heard the knox or the clacks or whatever you want to call them, I woke up around six or seven, I think, and it sort of gathered my stuff and I was probably on the road heading out by about eight or so something like that, maybe eight thirty at the most. I had a chance to say goodbye to Lighterman because he gets up at the crack of dawn, and then, of course Bart was still asleep,

so I just bailed. But I drove into Willow Creek that day and I met up with Eric, one of the people who manages the museum down there. Super nice guy. Hung out with him and we kind of went through the museum a little bit and we talked about some of the history. I corrected some of the placards that they might have been mislabeled. He was asking me, well, where's this cast right here? We just have a label for it, and I said, oh, it's over here in

this exhibit. So they weren't missing as much as they thought. We went through through some of the drawers, I started piecing some things together opened so it kind of solves some things and also opened other mysterious questions I think, like, for example, the TIPMSS hand cast from nineteen eighty two, I believe, I think it was October nineteen eighty two,

I remember right. I had a bunch of photographs courtesy of Larry Lund that he had never seen before of the casting of those prints that had various members from the Bay area group with him. I think Archie Buckley was there. I'm not sure if Warren Thompson was there or George Haas was there. I think George Hass was there as well, but I'm pretty sure Archie Buckley was there because he's a very particular style and that was

him and photographs. He had never seen any of those photographs before, and of great interests in those photographs is after the casting, you see in case our listeners don't know, right, and a lot of people actually don't know much about this particular event. People probably know about the fifty eight

stuff that Bob Timmas casts. They may even know about the fifty nine stuff in November fifty nine that he casts, and certainly they know about the Patterson Gimlin casts that he got at the site ten days after Roger and Bob filmed the thing, and there were a couple other events in there too. But Bob Timmos was very prolific, and very few people know much about what he did

because Bob Timmos wrote virtually nothing about it. Whatever he did write is written in his own handwriting with pencil on the back of the footprint cast themselves, and those are on display in the Willow Creek Museum, but they're obviously displayed footprint side up, not the other way around, right, So a lot of that information has never really been seen before by the public. And of course he was a very quiet guy. He didn't really look for attention.

He certainly wasn't in a purposeful influencer by any stretch of the imagination, which is probably why he's so respected, except for you know, there was obviously that cattiness between the old time researchers and stuff, and a lot of people tried to tear Bob Timmas down, unfortunately, and you can read stories about that, mostly which are.

a very hot month in Bluff Creek. So Bob Timmis would come down every month for about not every month every year, for about a month during October and walked the roads and looked for stuff and generally hang out.

twenty feet or something like that. And the sasquatch went into the pond and there are footprints in the bottom of the pond and the thing and it was like moving like and basically here there were hand prints on the bottom of the pond too. So what it was doing, I don't know, maybe foraging for worms or who knows what kind of food items you find in the bottom of a silty pond, but it was doing it so

Bob Tipmos drained the pond. He called his buddies, they came up, they got a pump, they drained the pond, and Bob cast a handprint two, which is at that time one of the only hand prints in existence. There's quite a few more now, but at that time first. Now it wasn't the first. Ivan Marx had the first Prince in nineteen seventy, but Ivan Marx is associated with it.

Even though I think those prints are probably real, Ivan Marx had some other things that were not real later on, so everything he has done has been cast into doubt, unfortunately. And then there was the knuckle prints from June nineteen eighty two from Freeman. But really other than that, there was virtually nothing, you know, as far as hand prints go, actual cast at least, so he casts that. But he also casts a number of footprints, and I believe the

Willow Creek Museum had I think they had six. I'm pretty sure they had six of these things in their drawers. But yet the photographs that Larry Lund gave to me shows nine and say, oh, well, isn't that interesting? Where are these other casts? And that's that's the story of my life, right there having a photograph of something that one cannot find in the data sets, Like, where are

these other casts? I'd really like to see them. And you know, most most of the prints aren't that great, but Bob was such a good tracker, and he was so wise about these things that he would cast them regardless of quality basically. But a couple of these casts are actually really good. They show beautiful toes and really interesting stuff, and then of course the handprint that goes with it even makes it all the more interesting. So I thought that was really neat. But yeah, so I'll

be working. I made good friends with Eric of course when I was down there, the guy, you know, kind of who's leading the Willow Creek Museum to some I mean, I want to say leading it, but he's definitely a force in the Willow Creek Museum. He's really interested in.

that sort of stuff. You know. He's just a man of the woods down there, and he was present when a lot of these famous casts were obtained, like the High Im Palm Site A and Site B stuff from nineteen sixty three from April. But there's a lot of other stuff going on down there that he also had an association with. He would go out and check out other footprint fines and come back, oh that's nonsense, or oh those are real, like cast a couple of them.

So yeah, I talked to Dave McCoy for forty five minutes and recorded an interview with him, and it was just a wonderful interview, and I've kept in touch with Dave Simpson. He invited me next time I come down to the area. He said he'd be happy to go show me where some of the stuff happened. Go drive around High and Palm and get a guided tour from

a McCloy. Oh, I'd be thrilled to do that, of course. Yeah, Eric and I at the museum, we're talking about trying to plan some sort of collaboration stuff between my museum and the Willow Creek Museum. So there's a lot going on there that a lot to look forward to as things kind of slowly pan out in the dust settles in my life here. So there's a lot going on as usual.

talked about it. Did is in and said the trailer is a million times nicer looking that I was expecting.

But you know, we didn't really see that many images of Sergio unfortunately, so I don't think he quite instantiated himself into the hearts of our listeners like the trailer did.

video game related things. But he did ask at the end of his question, Bobo, what is the closest you've ever been to being nerd adjacent?

so wherever that's worth. But I think that Bobo's love for Lord of the Rings in Tolkien in general is perhaps a little bit more casual, where I would say I have definitely, you know, swam in the in the pool of nerdiness as far as the Tolkien legendarium goes, do you speak Elvin.

bumping into a sasquatch when outlooking is quite rare. So was any of that played up for the camera or were they actually that active? Because your locations were selected carefully, there was.

And really the reason we were so good, we're so lucky, so good, so whatever, so successful is we had the databases behind us, you know, money Maker's database, the BFRO was at our disposal, including a nationwide network of researchers who were out in the field on a pretty regular basis interviewing witnesses and learning about stuff. And I had probably at that point, I myself had twelve hundred reports

probably submitted to me by then. So but Matt had you know, ten times that, well maybe not ten times, yeah, maybe ten times or more, you know, of good reports from almost wherever we went. So if we knew we were going to someplace, you know, like Mississippi, he would just call up his Mississippi researchers and say, we're going

to these areas. What do you think what's been going on, tell me about it, and kind of keep his finger on the pulse there for a month or so before we went down there, and say what you I know, a lot of people don't like Matt for whatever reason. I like him just fine. In fact, I was literally texting with him this morning. But he is very good

at finding sasquatches. He maybe right or wrong about some other things that he says or whatever, and his his hypotheses, just like we all are, but he is very good at finding sasquatches and where they are likely to be. So when he gets the intel from his researchers who may have just looked into report that happened three weeks ago, he can start scouring maps in that area and trying to figure out what's going on and piecing together some sort of model of what he thinks sasquatches are doing.

And you know, and I'll be darn men, he's right.

the veil, so to speak. And most of the reason he's not hiding anything from you. I don't see these things of locks.

I'm not a member. I don't think any of us here are members, but we were at one point and I'm not a member just because I find that in this weird tribal world that we have inherited. If you're in a group, other people won't work with you, you know, And it's a group sort of thing. You're either for me or against me sort of stuff. And I think that all that is nonsense. I think that's childish personally. So I'm not in any group whatsoever, So I can

work with whoever whoever wants to work with me. I'm fine with it. But it's an all The BFRORO is an all volunteer organization, and no matter how enthusiastic you think you are about Bigfoot, once you talk to five or ten witnesses, the fire kind of dims a bit and you think, well, I'm going to hear another road crossings. And most people just investigate fewer and fewer reports the

longer they're in any group. And there are some diehards out there that do it all the time, don't get me wrong, But most people who get signed up for the BFRORO, they're on fire for a month or two, they do three or four, five reports or something, and then they slowly start neglecting the BFRO stuff because life gets in the way, and so most reports probably go uninvestigated. Or they just aren't really worth it because somebody heard a knock and they think it's more important than a

knock actually is, or a vocalization actually is. But when you're making a TV show, some of that stuff could be very useful. If you have an area that you get all these weird vocalizations from and knocks and a footprint find that a lot of people would never even investigate and put and post publicly. Well, that stuff could add up to it. I mean, Moneymaker's the money Maker math. We said it on the TV show a couple of times, you know, And what is it? A bunch of maybes

equals it? Probably, Yeah. So that's why we were so successful because we had we had the Bfroro database, We had Moneymaker, and we had Bobo and I with a lot of Woods experience, and I knew a bunch of witnesses as well, and Bobo knew him. Boba doesn't really keep it. I don't think you really keep a database per se. But you know a lot more people than I ever will in my entire life cumulative.

It sounded like it took two rocks and just smashed them together behind us, thinking it sounded like a sledgehammer, like a giant sledgehammer hitting another rock and it exploding like and you can hear the chunks of rock flying through the brush and it was literally like thirty feet behind us, forty feet behind us, something like that. Fifty feet no more than fifty feet. Roder, I want some of hit radeos.

anything about bigfoot I mean, I mean they don't. Some of them were in their twenties and they think they know everything, because that's what it's like being a twenty three year old person who's given the who granted the the title of produce sir. When that's what all you want to do for your life, of course you're gonna be kind of full of yourself and think you know

what's up, but you don't. And and these producers were making decisions about where we're going to go bigfooting based on remember that one dude, I remember his name, but he said that it's going to look great when you guys walk across that log. So really, that's what you think we're doing. That's what you think we're doing here polistic. Yeah, it's insane, insane, And we were we had nothing going on. We had nothing basically except for a lot of pretty

shots and b rolls and a few witnesses. And I remember we we went in there before the last night investigation we were scheduled to go out that night. We went over to the cabin where the owners of the production company and you know, the head producers were all staying, and we went in there and said, dude, we're not getting anything, and it's because you're choosing the spots. You're not letting the bigfooters do what we do. We do this,

you don't. You don't know what you're talking about, and we're going to fail unless you give us a little bit more control here. And they were not happy with us at all anyway, because of butting heads with us all week long, and we're not getting anything, and they knew that we're all failing, and we just basically said, dude, you're holding us back. You are the reason this is failing. You need to let us do some bigfoot stuff or

we're not going to get anything. And they at that point were so aggravated and frustrated with us, they basically said, okay, you have three hours go, and they let us loose and we hauled ass. You remember that in that old suv thing that we had. Yeah, and we hauled ass up the mountains just trying to find. Okay, the only

way we're going to get anything is by vocalizing. We need to find a spot that we can yell the furthest and get something in return, because we have three hours to scout a spot and find a sasquatch before we go out and film for the final night investigation on a pilot that will either make or break the show period. And we did, and Matt says, this is where we need to go, and we drove that road. We found the best spots we can to vocalize, and

long and short of it is, we got them. We got them that night, and only because the production justment a brief moment of unexplainable wisdom, because I don't have a lot of faith in production in general. They let us do what we do. You know, to me, it's just such a no brainer that, like, you know, like somebody is trying to tell you how to fix your car, but they've never held a wrench. You're going to talk to the mechanic, right, Let the mechanic do what they do.

Let the bigfooters do what they do, and they did and we won on that one, and that was basically the struggle for the next season or two. You know, everybody knows that we've had struggles on finding big Foot, particularly first season, but the production found that the more they let us do what we do, the more successful the show was, you know, and the body you know,

we didn't get them all the time. To get back to Laura's question, we didn't get them all the time, but we bat at about a fifty to fifty and for Bigfoot, that's amazing. And at the end of the day, it's only because the production finally tried trust us and

we delivered. At the end of the day, we delivered because they realized that we do this all the time, and the people who live in la who don't have a lot of life experience, who don't even think Bigfoot is real, maybe they should not be the ones to choose where we go look for these animals.

more ourselves. And you can see that if you watch the episodes from season one to season eight or nine or whatever however they designate those things. So it's all made up anyway, as far as what seasons go, that doesn't really make sense. But from the beginning to the end of the show, you see that, like, oh, the real personalities are coming through, you know, later on in the seasons, whereas the first season or two were much

more reserved and stuff. But there's one thing I wanted to address in this question.

just coyotes. Like I'm not gonna get excited about coyotes or anything like that. I don't want the editors to make it look like I'm a big so yeah. But but but Cliff and she put it in a way that I finally understood what they needed, you know, And she says, okay, Cliff, check this out. You're a teacher, right, You're doing a lesson on some geology lesson like volcanism

or something on volcanoes. And you do that, you know that that thing that the kitchen chemistry thing where you mixed together baking soda and vinegar and it bubbles up and you can tint it red and make a volcano sort of thing that we've all seen that in elementary

school sort of settings. Right, she says, if you're doing that in your classroom and you're and you're showing your children, and you've been doing this lesson for five or eight years in a row, and you have a new crop of fifth graders or whatever in there, and you're showing that lesson to the students, are you going to go, yep,

there it is. You like that, guys, Or are you going to go, oh my gosh, look at this, this is amazing blah blah blah blah blah blah and get all fired up about it and then talk about it. And I said, well, obviously I would do that because my students are important to me. He says, that's right, Cliff, And now you don't have a class of thirty. You have a class of about a million and a half people every single week. You owe it to them to be more enthusiastic about it, and don't worry about what

the editors are going to do. Just be you just go big. Just treat this like you're teaching students, because you are, and some student quote unquote out there is going to be is going to catch what you have man contagiously speaking, you know, like they're going to be enthusiastic too about the subject, but not if you do it like this. Yeah, so what it's coyotes. Get excited

about hearing coyotes. There's nothing wrong with that. You're not lying, You're you know, you can be excited about hearing coyotes.

just made a lot more sense to me. And I think probably I think we had a better show because little lessons like that about how to make good TV and still be true to the subject or.

would be amazing. So food, food and live animals to show that other animals are cool there, and stuff, and maybe as a food source. And you got to be okay with like, you know, losing some losing a cat every once in a while or something, but that that would help a lot. I think another good thing is be predictable. I think you would be eventually predictable anyway. You know, if you have a routine, they pick up

on that pretty quick. And I think that having a routine that's not really cultivating a property necessarily or managing a property, but that's something you can do with your own life, is just have realize your routine, because we all have one, we just don't think about it so much. Realize your own routine and kind of take notes on it, and then every once in a while break it to see if they're cruising around, because they don't expect you to be in a certain area yeah, and other than that,

I mean, I don't know. I mean, I have some plans for my property. I've got about twenty twenty three acres out here on the slopes of mountain Hood here and then the foothills, and I haven't done a lot to my property to cultivate it for sasquatches yet, because well, part of the reason is anything you do for sasquatches, bears are going to become an issue. You know, essentially, you know you're gonna have a lot of bears around. And I don't think my wife really wants bears around

very much because I'm gone a lot. But I do have some ideas about planning some fruit trees on the upper property. We've got a couple of springs up there that would probably keep the fruit trees watered efficiently, So I'd like to put some food sources up there, because we don't get bears down where I am necessarily, but on the top of the property or underneath this, underneath the outbuilding, we get a lot of bear movement all

throughout there. It's because we have a blm land at the end of the road here and there's a lot of bears out there. But I have some ideas about putting some food items up on top and not not baiting for bears. I'm not hunting or anything like that, but I'm planning some apple trees or maybe a pear tree or something out there in the brush if I can find a sunny enough spot for it.

in a big pile up there. And I try to put the food stuffs in the same area every single time, so again, be predictable with what you're doing, you know. And I've had sasquatch stuff happen up there. This is up at the top campsite. I think you've been up there, Bobo, but above the top camp site. There's you know, twenty no, not realistically, about four or five six acres of undeveloped land that no one's ever done anything with. I don't

own it. It belongs to the people who live further up the hill from me, but they've never been down there. There's no roads down there, there are no trails down there. It's just wild land essentially, and I think that's where a lot of the animals moving. I've gotten knocks out of that area before, so yeah, it just kind of make a big show. They go up there, put the

food down, and then leave the area. Whenever. Most of the time when I'm up there, they can hear me coming because I'm righting in the side by side or the tractor or something like that. So those are ideas for Connor.

show that the residents are fairly vigilant. So not only are they removing all the obstructions and things to hide behind, but they'd kind of always be outside doing some kind of maintenance and paying a lot of attention, and that would just put them off too. So yeah, the things you see in common across all those places, not only it's like where they're situated in terms of the environmental context, but yeah, they tend to be pretty neglected looking.

love Tom. And back in the early days when he was transitioning over to the paranormal ideas that he now holds deer, he was still kind of pretty flesh and blood and he was looking into these properties that had sasquatches giving repeat visits, and he had a lot of things to say about it that I thought were are still to this day very very useful for things to think about. So check out Tom Powell's book The Locals and see what he has to say about some of

these properties that he was doing work on. And to Tom's credit, you know, Tom was back in he was in the bfr O at the time and as actually writing the book The Locals that made him leave the BFRO at some point, and he did a camera trap project on one of these properties and sure enough got a picture. So and that picture is in the North

American Bigfoot Center. We have a whole display on that because it's one of these things that almost nobody knows about, but but it actually happened, and he got two frames of a video of one of these things walking past a camera. It's not very good, don't get your hopes up or anything, but it is a silhouette that is definitely big foot shaped in front of some very archaic nowadays archaic technology. Back then, it was cutting edge, and I think it was Richard Hucklebridge that kicked down the

money to fund this project. And nowadays, like the technology is like laughable nowadays, but back then it was cutting edge. It's like either two thousand or two thousand and one. But yeah, Tom Powell's book The Locals and his work up there and what they call the Chehalis Project is just fantastic, just really really good stuff and even to this day it has a lot of value. So go check that out if you can read, read read books.

You know, from my perspective, first of all, you'd have to demonstrate what animal out there makes certain sounds, especially the big moaning howls, because just from personal experience, I've heard that eleven times all across North America. Many people have gotten recordings of that. It's been analyzed by a number of bioacoustics experts who basically unanimously agree that it's not synthetic, it's not mechanical, and it's not man made,

and it doesn't correspond with any known mammal. So I think if sasquatches did not exist, but you could demonstrate that bears in very specific circumstances, just as an example, produce that sound that might be compelling. You know, you'd have to have some alternative for a lot of these things. And if there is no such thing in the objective environment,

then it only exists within the human mind. Then I think you would have to set up a situation whereby you could reliably induce phenomenologically authentic observations or encounters with sasquatches under some kind of like laboratory conditions, And you'd have to figure out what it is in the environment that is triggering these authentic experiences in people, because they don't have them in their homes or at the gym, or at the restaurant or at the grocery store, or

in their cars, you know, while they're in the city or in urban areas, et cetera. And so I think it would take a lot to prove that, like, no, this is solely restricted to the human mind, and we can replicate it, and all these very real stimuli in the environment that people hear we can definitively attribute to other mammals, because if you couldn't, well, it's like, well, now you need a new cryptid. What other animal is producing that sound that we don't know about, you know what I mean?

to go. They're at that particular location. I don't even know I'm going there. No one else does. My wife doesn't know where I am. The guys at the shop, my employees and friends don't know where I am going. No one knows because I don't even know when I set out, and I kind of make up my mind on the drive out there, Oh I'm going to go try that road. But yet I find occasionally I find footprints out there, and they're big. They're like fourteen inches.

There's a seventeen inch one that I've seen more than once now in one of my areas. And these are these are footprints and not just individual footprints either, like the strange marks on the ground. Are these are trackways, you know, with with multiple footprints in them, spaced evenly and showing details and stuff. And that to me is pretty compelling. That, to me is pretty compelling that I'm on the right track here. So what would it take?

Like I can write off my sightings because they're not that good, you know, but the footprint stuff, that would be hard for me to do so, And again, no one knows I'm going there. And if there's something about hoaxing that I know about is that hoaxers generally want their stuff to be found. They put in obvious places they would call them in, you know, to to various people. I've been hoaxed that way before. People don't generally hoax and then hope that somebody runs across them in these

places that there's no reason to walk into. Right, So I guess someone would have to show me how they're how they're doing this, or that I am so gullible that and such a lousy tracker that I would think anything is a footprint even if it's not, which is probably that's probably much easier to prove actually than someone's

out there hoaxing it. You know, I'm much more open to me being wrong, being mistaken than I am that somebody is out there hoaxing me in places that I don't even know I'm going to.

I'm like, well, then the alternative is that it's psychological, and I've equally not experienced that, and according to many skeptics, it's a wish fulfillment. Oh, people see it because they want to see it. It's like, well, I want to see it worse than just about anyone on the planet. And so if we're going to say that because I've not experienced it, it doesn't exist, then there's your grounds right there for saying that the psychological sasquatch doesn't exist,

because well, why haven't I seen fifty of them? By now? Why did John Green never see one? You know, there's a whole list of people who devoted their lives and a lot of field time to trying to see one that never had a clear visual And so you know, you can't have it both ways versus you know, there's there's plenty of animals that do exist that I've not seen with my own eyes in the wild, like wolverines

for example. You know, not that I've spent a tremendous amount of time wolverine country, but I have spent some and I've never seen a wolverine in the wild. Now, yes, there's footage and we all know they exist, But just as an example from personal experience, I would never look at that and go, well, you know, I ain't buying it until i'd see it for myself. That'd be pretty silly.

But if we're going for this, you know, biological hypothesis versus or as opposed to a psychological hypothesis, then well then why am I not experiencing that?

waiting for that to happen to me. I guess I must not have that component, you know, I'm not arrogant enough to think that I would be immune to that. That's what's so funny about a lot of the skeptical arguments. It's like, well, you know, people have false memories, and so you can genuinely believe you saw an animal that was never there. It's like, oh, really, how many of the animals that you've seen in your life do you

assume actually weren't there? Or do you think that just everyone else is subject to false memories but not you? You know, what do you mean? It's like, okay, well you've seen deer when you're driving. I want you to think back and then as sign what percentage of those deer were not actually there? Well, it doesn't happen to me, I mean for other people. It's like, of course that's what you mean. Or you know, memories are fallible, you

can't rely on memory at all. Okay, well, how many of your memories of your life experiences do you assume to be entirely fictitious. Probably zero. You know, there's things you might remember better than others. You might admit to yourself, well, I don't really remember it all that well. But it is funny to see people constantly making these broad generalizations about humankind, but those never apply to them. And so I'm not going to say it couldn't happen to me.

I just find it interesting that of all the years and the thousands of days and nights and many thousands of hours I've spent actively looking for a sasquatch and hoping and wishing and you know, begging the universe, praying whatever you want to call it, to see one, I haven't. And so I don't necessarily buy that like, oh yeah, you know, people just see what they want to see. Sorry, it ain't that easy.

listen to the podcast, Bobo, Yeah, I heard it. Okay, Well it turns out I was wrong and I was corrected once again. So talk about being wrong, and I'll say it again. If you're talking about bigfoot for a living like we do, you're probably going to say some incorrect things sometimes. So again, a good friend, doctor Hogan Cheryl, who was a guest on our podcast back in the day, I got a text from him a few days ago

saying that is it is incorrect. Although there is a there's a small faction of primatologists that advocate for that based on Bonobo's peaceful demeanor rather peaceful demeanor compared to chimpanzees. But what he told me was that the last common ancest sure between Bonobo's and chimpanzees was about three and three or four million years ago, three and a half million years ago, whereas the last common ancestor between humans and chimpanzees was about six six and a half million

years ago. So therefore we are equally close closely related to Bonobo's and chimpanzees because their common ancestor is much more recent, about half the distance back than the humans and chimpanzees' last common ancestor. So once again I sit here corrected. So thank you very much for correcting me. And of course everybody is willing, or everybody is. I'm willing to listen to anybody who wants to correct me.

And I always appreciate supporting research papers and all that sort of stuff, because I am a learner about bigfoot and primatology and paleo anthropology and everything like that. Certainly not an expert. I'm just a learner like everybody else. So keep it coming, guys, appreciate it. Thanks doctor V.

essentially at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah, we want to learn about o ring oftans, we want to learn about guerrillas. But at the same time, they hold a mirror up to our own species in a lot of different ways, and we should be studying human evolution for the exact same reason. The fact that like uh sasquatch hands are are are more similar to like Ostralla pithesene hands than they are to gorilla hands. That tells us something, because anatomy reflects behavior, you know, very directly

in a lot of ways. And I think that everyone who is a serious student of the sasquatch subject should probably look into or at least dabble in paleoanthropology. I think you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't. I've started reading Debbie argues book Little Species, Big Mystery. I think that's a name of it. It's upstairs. I don't have the cover in front of you, but I'm pretty sure that's the title of it. And she is a pale anthropologist I believe, who is looking into the Homo

floresiensis subject. And she's also an advocate of them being a more archaic species than say Homorectus, which is a very commonly thrown around, you know, diagnosis of them, I guess. But just last night, in the very very first chapter, that's all I've gotten through so far, she was talking about how if you look at the end side of the cranium, you can see signs of where arteries attached and in like feed blood to the brain, and therefore you can kind of figure out what part of the

brains are. The brain is getting more you know, more more advanced, more developed, and then that that gives some sort of reflection or some sort of hint as to the cognitive ability of the species. And it's like, well, well, mind blowing, mind blowing stuff, right, So yeah, again, everybody should be looking into something like this. And if I may, you know, one of the things that really turned me on to the palaeo anthropology thing that I really really

enjoyed are a number of books by Ian Tattersall. So if you check out Ian Ian Tattersall stuff. I think he's the guy in charge of the human evolution stuff at the Museum in New York and the Naturalizer Museum in New York, and several of his books like Masters of the Planet was I think with the first one I read and then I read another one, what is it stretching my memory here.

and consequences through through all the time. Basically because you know, back in I think the first hominin fossil that was discovered that people started taken seriously was like in the mid eighteen hundreds, and it was a Neanderthal Neanderthal cranium if I remember, right, and that's where people went like what humans evolved too, you know, and like what we

just weren't here all the time like this? You know, it's like, no, of course not, why would we were subject to all the natural forces that all the other animals are. And so he kind of walks us through from that point on to the present and the mistakes that were made, the the successes. They're just fantastic books. So Ian Tattersall is I highly recommend reading his stuff. There's a lot of fun to read and makes it very, very digestible for the public.

unholy communion of Avian madmen. Their vocalizations represented what one might generously describe as territorial dispute calls for people with an abundance of leisure time. Their initiation rights were as insipid as their penchant for laundry oriented larceny. New recruits, referred to as eggs, a cynical mockery of natural order, were subjected to the demeaning ritual of the daw pile.

Only after enduring this embarrassment were neophytes permitted to hatch into full pigeons, an evolution that must have seemed more significant to them than to any of the unfortunate onlookers who witnessed it. They're so called havoc, which they believe to be the height of subversive genius, was undoubtedly intended to ruffle the collective plumage of the Southern Californian suburban elite, a testament to the failure of society to instill any

sense of dignity or purpose in its youth. In hindsight, the Pigeons will be remembered as both a towering monument to the audacity of the human spirit and as an instantiation of the conceptual confluence of privilege and boredom.