Big Food and Beyond.
With Cliff and Bobo. These guys, are you fav It's so like say subscribe and rade it five star and me greatest on Quesh today listening watching limb always keep it's watching.
And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bobo Fay.
Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and usually Bobo. Bobo is not in today. The doctor is not here, so anyway, Yeah, he's got some other more pressing issues at the moment, including flat tires and I don't know this crazy Bobo stuff. You'll have to hear it directly from him when he gets back. So this is another opportunity for us to do an episode with Matt Pruitt. The lovely and talented Matt Prue will be subbing. Hi, Matt, how you doing today?
I'm great because this marks a historic first because I'm looking at the clock and this is the first time that we've ever hit record in the minute that we were scheduled to start in five and a half years, So congratulations to us. Yeah, I had a lot of great updates for Bobo, so I will miss him a lot because I was really looking forward to reading some sentiments that were sent in for him to him, so
we'll save that for next time. So, Bobo, you'll be missed and you'll be pleasantly surprised when you rejoin.
Yeah. Yeah, I understand a lot of people wrote in condolences about his trailer. Is that correct? Is that why he's getting condolences?
Yeah? I think he got more sympathy for losing the trailer than maybe he did for either his dog or his bird.
So, oh my gosh, Monkey and Sergio didn't get as much love as the trailer did.
Yeah. When Sergio transitioned to the other side, you know, Bobo was talking about I love that bird so much, dude, he was so great. So I went back through a bunch of our old raw files to try to find instances of him talking to the bird to sort of support that everyone, and was like, Sergio shut up. So Bobo's he's got a very particular way of showing love.
Yeah. Yeah, and it makes me think he must really like me for all the cliff that I get from him.
So yeah, he's told me to shut up many times, so he must adore us. He's probably doing it right. Now because I know he's listening to.
This probably probably, yeah, he does listen to every single episode and as a member, a member, and of course if you want to become a member, you can always go to Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com and it hit that member link and I'll tell you all about it. You get good stuff for an extra hour of Cliff, Bobo and Matt. Every single week, you get this episode
with zero commercials at all. Matt Proud goes in and edits out even the ones that we do live reads on to make sure that your listening experience is what you pay for. And what else do you get? Matt? Oh? You know, Matt, you know, you and I were talking earlier in the week and there's a couple of things
that we've noticed from our audience. You know that we wanted to bring attention to number one, One of our most ihard fans ever was completely unaware that every once in a while we put out little snippets and things that you'll only get if you subscribe to the RSS feed. Matt, can you tell us a little bit more about that, because one of our most diehard fans was surprised that she's missing out on various things here, So we don't
want anybody to be missing out. What can our listening audience do to make sure they don't miss anything, even the little five minute things that we put out every blue moon.
So yeah, so when you join our Patreon account, Patreon is just an amazing platform. I can't say enough good things about They're just an amazing company and they provide a lot of tools to us as podcasters that just aren't offered on most of the platforms. And so when you join as a member, you're going to have access to our Patreon page, and so there is a feed there, and that feed is going to be essentially like a
rolling blog that are updated posts. And so every Monday and every Thursday, I post whether there's supplemental images, supplemental videos, you know, whatever goes along with the episode you're hearing on that release. Because the main show comes out every
Monday and the bonus show comes out every Thursday. And so some people will sign up for the app and only subscribe to the bonus podcast feed and not realize that, oh well, if you if you use the Patreon app, you're actually going to see all the images and or videos or you know, additional written text, written content that goes along with that discussion that you're hearing on the podcast.
And then I think there's a number of people that tend to log into Patreon via a web browser, whether that's on a desktop or a laptop, or their you know, mobile browser on their smartphone or tablet. But Patreon does have a free app that in my experience, has a much better sort of user interface and offers a better
user experience. And then it's easier through the app to send direct messages, you know, to communicate whether you want to submit questions for the members only Q and A episodes, And we also have community chats where you can chat with other members of the Bigfoot and beyond membership community. So there's always cool conversations going on there and people asking each other questions about books or documentaries or asking
us questions. So it's a super cool experience and it really does generate a great sense of community.
And Bobo logs in everyone, believe or not, Bobo is a member of our own podcast, so he logs in every once in a while and you know, shoots the poop with people and makes comments and all that sort of stuff too.
So Bobo's better about interacting there, although he does that on our Facebook and Instagram accounts and things like that occasionally, but yeah, he's good about it on Patreon. So it makes it easy too. So if you are thinking about becoming a member, you can get the Patreon app for free. Again, it's really great, really easy to use and interact with.
It just makes the whole experience a lot better than logging in when you get to your computer, because when we do video drops and things like that, those things play natively in the app, so you'll get a notification
and you could watch whatever video we've posted. Cliff is kind enough to share a number of the ABC videos with us, So if an event happens that gets captured on video while close film and stuff for the ABC, after it goes out to NABC members through their Patreon account for a while, we'll put it out on the podcast side so people can see the visuals that went along with the podcast discussion we had, and you can do all that right through the app rather than having
to wait till you get home and log in on your computer or whatever.
Yeah, and just be clear that the North American Bigfoot Center the museum, I'm always talking about has a separate Patreon account. A lot of people think that they sign in for one, it's g get both, and I'm afraid that's just not the case. It's a separate entity, it's a separate job, it's a separate everything. So it just
just heads up on that one. Although there is a lot of crossover obviously, because you know, I want to share whatever I can with people, so yeah, sometimes if it's pertinent or whatever, the NABC videos end up on the Bigfoot and Beyond video feed as well. But again, the NABC members they get two a month, and the podcast folks get won every blue moon. So but anyway, enough about all that stuff. But we're going to plow ahead anyway with our Q and A episode, which is
what we had planned. We're just gonna kind of take out those questions that are more Bobo centric and kind of focus on the ones that are more Cliff and Matt centric. So so Bobo will still have a lot to talk about it our next Q and A, but in the meantime, we hop on and take the first voicemail.
We got two voicemails that came in recently, so we'll get through those first and then move on to the written questions.
Hey, Cliff and Bobo, this is Kyle coming at you from Bozeman, Montana. I was just wondering. You guys talk a lot about wildlife habitat. How much do you think a sasquatch, an omnivore would consume on a daily basis for vegetation and meat combined?
We got I don't know. You know, that's a really good question because I don't know, But I'm not sure how good of an answer I can give on this one. Maybe Mattel had more insight, but you know, I've heard the number five thousand calories a day tossed around, but that's probably just based on mass or whatever. And of course, if we're basing that on maybe a two thousand or twenty five hundred calorie a day thing for human like an adult, say male, and I'm saying male just because
males tend to be larger than females. There's a sexual dimorphism in humans, just like all the rape species. I think they're just basing it on just mass. But what they don't take into consideration is physiology. I think, like in general, because the apes seem to have a rather slow metabolism from what I understand, I could be wrong about that. There's a lot of things I'm wrong about, but from I understand, they have just generally slower metabolism.
Maybe they don't need as many calories as people think. Maybe that that's kind of a human cage we're putting over the bigfoot as far as speculating how many calories a day they would need. And also when you think about how many calories a day, you got to think of that on average, I imagine there's plenty of days where sasquatches perhaps don't eat at all, or eat very
very little, or really really low quality foods. There has been a lot of speculation about what kinds of foods sasquatches might be able to use on a regular basis. And you've probably heard me speaking before about deer versus elk. You know, you always see where the sunlight hits the forest floor, like road sides and meadows and power line cuts and railways and all that sort of stuff. Because
deer need higher quality foods than say elk. Do elk can actually feed under the forest canopy in the shade where there's lower quality foods because they have an elongated intestinal track, so more time and more opportunity for the food product potential food product to have the nutrients extracted from it by retaining contact with the intestinal walls, right,
and sasquatches very likely have that as well. In fact, I think it's a very very high probability that sasquatches can utilize very low quality foods, so that that would stop them from having to go out in the meadows and stuff all the time, which it might might be another small contributing factor about how or why they're seen rarely.
And also I've talked about this before as well. When you look at the cranium that the skull of a sasquatch, and of course we don't have a skull, but if you look at the good pictures, like say that beautiful composite picture I think Bill Muns made, and there's a wonderful composite page photograph of all the different frames of Patty turning her head when she turned the head move and looked at Roger and Bob and then turned back.
So you get this, I don't know, there's probably forty or fifty photographs in that one mosaic composite photograph, and you get a real, general good idea, generally good idea of what her head looks like and what you see there are chewing apparatz, you know. You see a big thick jaw, You see zygomatic arches, you see the sagital crest. You see that the majority of her head structure is for chewing, which also strongly points to her eating fibrous,
low quality foods. But as far as calories per day, I imagine those low quality foods don't produce a lot of calorie but a lot of but rather a lot of bulk, you know, a lot of stuff the poop, but not a lot of calories. So I imagine, Hey, Matt, do you have to know how many like deer a week or a month mountain lions take down? Isn't it like one deer every week or two that they take down and that satisfies them?
You know, I don't know what the averages. I'm sure you could look that up, and I'm sure it would depend on a number of other factors too, like the smaller game that they're taking in. If those are in abundance, it's probably fewer large game, you know, if there's more rabbits or you know, things have roughly that size for them to eat, then it's probably a lower number of deer versus in other areas where they're more reliant on
the larger animals, et cetera. So it's a long winded way of saying I don't know, well.
Long winded, and this is okay here because that's just because a little bit more informational, it's a little bit more thought process. But you know, like much is made about the sasquatch deer connection, of course, and I think that deer are probably a preferred food for saasquatches, but you know, deer can't be that easy to get, no matter how slinky and fast and strong you probably are. They're probably one of the more challenging prey items that
are on the menu recent that are with any regularity. So, say that a sasquatch takes down a deer a week or every two weeks and supplements their their diet with all the other stuff that the stuff that not only the deer are eating, but maybe the stuff that the elk are eating as well, like the low, low quality foods.
And then of course I find I have found, and I am aware of other people finding several sites where they sasquatches are feeding on rodents of various sorts, you know, mountain beavers or rats or you know, ground squirrels or any of these pikas or all that sort of stuff is on the menu. And I've also found were a juvenile and I say a juvenile with this is based on an eleven and a half inch footprint that was found, actually several trackway of eleven and a half inch footprints.
These things are also tearing apart cedar stumps, you know, presumably going after grubs or termites or you know, whatever is living inside there. So those are probably the higher quality foods that are available readily, you know, more or less pretty much every day. They probably they can probably get insects, They can probably get all sorts of vegetation. I think rodents wouldn't be that big of a deal. You know, maybe not every day, but every couple days.
Are probably snacking on some rats and stuff like that. And then deer are probably the more rare food items, is what I'm guessing. Deer and maybe small bear or
small elk or something like that. You know, there's a woman on the kidsat Peninsula that wrote me years ago that has been living on the same property all of her life, and she has seen sasquatches on that property on a number of occasions, and she says, yeah, they're gone for a while, then they come back, and she says, one of the big indicators that they're back at all is that all the raccoons and skunks and possums go missing, and then she starts hearing them like a week or
two later, so she can generally tell by the other animals that are not there that she usually sees. So I think when you're a sasquatch, anything is on the menu, because the calorie caloric needs of these animals must be pretty high, no matter how slow their metabolism is. So those are my general thoughts. And I know that's a you think your answer was long winded for I don't know.
I just topped. So I don't know that we'd ever be able to accurately calculate or guestimate even a sasquatch's caloric requirements in the absence of observing living individuals feeding over a long period of time or without a specimen.
But there is a general rule for mammalian body size and its coloric requirements, and it's called a Cliber's law basically states that an animal's metabolic rate scales twero point seventy five, or like three quarters of its three quarters of the power of its body mass, So meaning that basically larger animals have a higher overall energy need, but they actually generate lower energy expenditures per unit of body
mass compared to smaller animals. So you can factor something like that in and come up with some rough number, you know, if you guestimated the weight of a sasquatch. But it depends on what you're comparing it to. I think comparing to humans in some regards is reasonable because we're bipedal and they're bipedal, and bipedalism is a much
more energy efficient form of locomotion than quadrupedalism. But then and we have very large brains per our body mass, and the brain is a very resource intensive organ It uses up a lot of energy and a lot of metabolism requires a lot of energy, and so there's going to be trade offs there whether you're comparing the sasquatch to a gorilla and scaling it up or a human
and scaling it up. So I just don't think we'll know, but I agree with you that in general would probably be pretty high, but certainly not any higher than the amount of energy that it would require animals of similar size or weight, So we might look towards things like elk or buffalo, or grizzly bears, or I mean, even some black bears in some regions have attained sizes of eight hundred pounds. Like the coastal North Carolina black bears tend to be significantly larger. I think the largest one
there is well over eight hundred pounds. So there's comparisons to be made within the animal kingdom and even within North America. But I don't think any answer would be anything better than a gas, no matter how reasonable the gas might be.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages. I think it's perhaps important or something at least keep in mind, is that when we think of five thousand calories a day or something like that, well you got to average that out. If they get two thousand one day, they're going to be hungry and they can get some more later. You know there's going to be an average of that amount.
Don't get stuck in the human habit of very rigid thinking, where if they don't get that, then they're failing somehow. And that kind of goes back to the mountain lion and the deer an elk. Thing I was rambling about earlier is that if they bring down a deer, that's probably a couple of days worth of food, you know, until it starts going ran sid or something like that. Or you know, they could even be employing strategies like
the grizzly bear it uses. Grizzly bears sometimes kill the deer or elk, they eat a little bit of it, perhaps some of the organs, because that's highly nutritious and that vitamins and all that jazz, and then they leave it. And then the grizzly bear continues to come back to the kill site to eat the maggots that are growing and breeding on the on the on the corpse. Maggots are very very high in protein and calori like everything good about it. You know, Maggots are a fantastic food.
And grizzly bears figured it out somehow, you know, so they actually do that. They leave the corpse for flies to lay eggs, and then the larva to grow on them and then they eat the larva. So sasquatches are likely doing something like that as well. So anything's on the table as far as sasquatch diet goes, and I
think that they have They're clever. Animals are really really smart, so they have probably figured out quite a few different ways to get the necessary nutrients that they need, you know, or that's redundant, but then the nutrients that they need.
So I think the best answer would just be.
A lot, a lot, yeah, well the best the easiest answer is, like I don't know, probably a lot. Yeah, But you know, we have a podcast to do, so they're thinking and talking and doing, you know. Well before we go to the next question, you know, I was thinking while we were talking here that I want to point out a couple of things and maybe clarify something before.
We have some pretty interesting listeners out there. I mean, all of our listeners are special, of course, and there's probably a lot of listeners that I know nothing about and know nothing about their qualifications. But I know that two of our listeners at least have have like advanced degrees, and they've both been guests on the show before. A doctor Hogan Chero, of course is a PhD in primatology.
He listens all the time, so shout out to him and he I bring him up because a few weeks back, or maybe two months ago now, he was kind enough to send me a bunch of articles about the foot structure of paranthropists and and like, because I was speaking at the time about how not a lot is known about these things, and he sent me a lot of articles,
and very little is known about paranthropist foot structure. I think there's I think of the articles he sent, he noted, I noted that one there was one partial foot fossil, if I remember right. And I don't need to call Hogan and talk to him about that. He invited me to. And of course, if God, if I have a PhD in primatology that wants to speak to me, I need to take advantage of that, of course, because I always
learned so much. And this was brought to mind, of course, because just this past week I was corresponding with Darren Nashe who of course has been an on another episode and maybe Matt you can link these two episodes for
our listeners in the show notes below. Yeah, but Darren nashe wrote to me, and he liked our conversation what we're having a few weeks ago about Homo fleuriesiensis, and he brought up some interesting articles about homofleuresiensis about how they seem to be more of an astrola pithesene than an early Homo as a lot of the paleoanthropologists are talking about now, and he sent him he brought up a recent paper that was presented at a conference about
how Homo nalidi some are arguing that they belong in the paranthropists camp as opposed to Homo at all. Really really interesting stuff, but one of the He also noted that he pointed out that I was incorrect about something, and I think that it was just a miss I must have misspoke or something like that, because what he corrected me on isn't something that I even think it is true, so I don't think I would have said it.
So I want to clarify that his takeaway when listening to our podcast, his takeaway of what I said was that bonobos are more closely related to humans than they are to chimpanzees. And if that was the idea that I communicated, I apologize because what I was trying to say is that bonobos are more closely related to humans than chimpanzees are related to humans.
That is what you said. I mean, I was on the call, and you know, when I edit it, I listened to it basically three times, and then when I'm done with the edit, I put it in my headphones to walk around and listen to the final product to see if there's anything that distracts me. So I heard that four times that you said the right thing.
So well, yeah, just for whatever it's worth, that's what I intended to say, and if there is anything if I so, I apologize if I wasn't clear with my language, but I wanted to make sure that that I don't think bonobos are more closely related to humans than they are to chimps, all right, So anyway, I just want to make sure that my intent, what I intended to communicate, is actually out there, just in case there's any other misunderstandings.
I'm wrong a lot, but occasionally when I am right, I want to make sure that I say the right things. Because even if I am right and I say it incorrectly, you know, it doesn't help anybody. So but anyway, why don't we hop onto the next question.
Hi Cliff and Bobo. This is Robert, currently living in Pittsburgh, originally from Scotland. You've always said you should read a lot about Bigfoot, and I've done exactly that, And in one of the books I was reading, it mentioned that people used to use seismic detectors to see if any big Foot were passing. Has this happened or been forgotten or is this something we should be doing maybe to triangulate movement. Look forward to hearing her answer.
Thank you all right, Robert, thank you for that question, and I hope you're enjoying Pittsburgh. My wife is there right now, although she's actually driving to Virginia. Our niece is getting married this coming weekend, so I am in a bachelor situation right now, which means not a lot. Really my life doesn't change very much, but anyway, so Robert, thank you for that question. Yes, seismic detectors have reportedly been used before, most notably by the peter Burn Projects,
a big Foot research project. I think back in the nineties they were using something to that effect. I know a few other people kind of in the peter Burn camp that love that sort of technology. But I've often thought like, even if we did use it, what is to differentiate a sasquatch from say an elk or an animal of similar body weight? And the way I mean, I've been around sasquatch is a fair amount. You know, I've heard them walking around and doing stufft least I
think I have. That's why I interpret, and they're pretty light footed in a lot of ways. But even if you get a hit on one of these things, and you have reason to believe it's a sasquatch, how is that much better than a siding report When a siding report will also tell you that a sasquatch was at a certain place at a certain time, you know what I mean? And I guess one is real time and you have to be out in that particular area to get the information and the data and stuff. But I
don't know, I don't know. That technology is not something that has really appealed to me because I don't see that I don't see it as being a very high value technology for the information that you get out of it. But having said that, you know, in bull Run Watershed, which I'm always talking about, which is a few ridges over from my house here, it's an off limits watershed
gives Portland it's water supply. It's also, from what I understand, where Peter and and the gang, Peter Burn and the gang for the Bigfoot Research Project put these sensors in. I understand that they deploy those at various obvious entrance points into the water shed, so the cops and the securities and folks and all that stuff can intercept people who are going into the watershed. I don't know if that's true or if that's just some sort of rumor,
you know how rumors are. Yeah, the seismic thing was actually on my radar recently because just a few weeks ago I went to the memorial service, the celebration of life for Henry Franzoni. I was one of the only bigfooters there. Suzanne Fahrenjack was there, she flew all the way from Ohio, being a dear friend of Henry's. And also Tom Powell and his wife were there. But other
than that, we're the only bigfooters there. And Tom Powell went had the microphone for a minute or two and talked about some of Henry's contributions to the Bigfoot thing, which is probably a little mind blowing for a lot of people there, and they knew Henry was into bigfoot, but Henry was best known as musician, an eccentric thinker. I think that's what I gathered from his friends there. But he brought up the seismic thing. He brought up
the seismic study. So that's kind of funny that Robert asked this question today because it was just recently on my radar because of Henry friend Zoni.
But I don't know.
I mean, Matt, what are your thoughts on seismic detectors and their deployment and what good if any, could come from them.
I personally don't think it would make a whole lot of sense to employ those because to me, the only context within which they would make sense is as a predictive measure to lead to more evidence. So, for example, if you had enough seismic sensors to cover a significant portion of an animal's home range, and let's say for the sake of argument, that we could put a sasquatch within a home range of somewhere between like fifty or eighty square miles, which is pretty large, but for an
animal of that size would be small ish. You'd need a lot of seismic sensors, and I think the utility of something like that is that if you were watching a map with a grid real time, and then you knew that something was moving through an area in real time, that you could respond to either to deploy personnel with cameras or you know, at least respond to rapidly enough to hopefully find or document tracks if you're not trying
to document the animal itself. The expenditure of resources that you would need to have that many seismic sensors and to install those in the ground in a way that's not going to disturb the environment such that it actually hinders the animal from moving the way it would normally move through the environment, because you can imagine it would take either one person a very long time or a lot of personnel moving through an area to plant these
things in the ground. So to me, it just seems like a tremendous amount of work and time and energy and resources for very little gain unless you had enough coverage and the ability to watch it in real time so that you could respond in real time. So I think there's much better ways to go about aiming for photographic or video graphic evidence and or trying to find tracks then to employ something like that. So even if I had unlimited resources, I wouldn't put them into seismic sensors personally.
Now, who knows how much these things cost anyway, you know.
And who knows? Like you said that, you might get false positives because something is of a significant size or weight, and then you deploy the team and you wind up with a bear or an elk or something like that, false alarm. But now you've just disturbed the area further because let's say that happens at night, and you've got to infiltrate an area with lights or get close with vehicles or whatever the case may be. So you're fundamentally
changing the environment. You know, if you're trying to test a certain hypothesis about a very rare, elusive, furtive animal and then you inundate that animal's environment or habitat with the stimulus of human sounds and smells and lights and all those things, then well you might not have just had a false positive, but you might have just ensured that nothing positive is going to happen there the way that you want it to for the next however many hours or days, wherever the case may be, so I
don't seem much positive use for technology like that.
Now, and even a cursory glance here, most seismic detectors are for earthquakes sort of things. And I see price ranges from one hundred and fifty to several thousand dollars here by doing a quick web search, And of course some of these are probably very high end sort of geologic gear. But at the same time, what are you going to get out of that? You know, game cameras might do something similar, you know, you know, thread could
do something very very similar. I mean at Area X, and they deploy thread between trees to figure out which way animals are walking.
Yeah, we deployed these things. You know, they did it for years before I joined the organization. So you know, when I say we, I was continuing a a sort of research tradition that they had long started. So I
certainly can't take any credit for that. But you know, areas around the base camp where activity would occur, they were trying to sort of parse out which directions that things might have been coming in from or heading out to, coming to or from this central location, and so Alton Higgins had put up these we colloquially called them string traps.
And you know, sewing thread is pretty hard to break, surprisingly so and so you can fix it to one tree and then string it across a gap and then wrap it around another tree a time or two, and it'll stay in place for a very very long time. And then when something moves through it, rather than the thread breaking, it'll usually just unravel the thread, and if you have enough surplus thread, it'll unravel it in the
direction that the animal was moving. And so then you can check those in the morning, and you want to set those at heights that they're not going to be moved by something smaller and lower to the ground, like a bear or a deer. So you set those at certain heights and then if there's activity and go look in the morning and like, oh, wow, something walked through
heading in this particular direction. And you have a perimeter of those around camp and there's you know, one that's unraveled into camp and one that's unraveled going out of camp. You kind of have an idea that, well, something came in this vector and then was inside this perimeter and then exited through this vector. So it's a really useful tool that is very cheap and inexpensive and easy to deploy.
There, and you get directionality, which is something I'm not so sure you would get with the most seismic sensors, right.
Yeah, I mean again, to get directionality with seismic sensors, you would have to have so many of them evenly spaced,
which you know that's a really hard thing to do. Too, is that when I was in the NAWAC, we had this camera trap project called Hadrian's Wall, and one of our brilliant members, a guy named Ed Harrison, had laid out this excellent design to have them all sort of equidistant in such a way that you know something would move through this trap line of cameras and at any given point, you know they should be captured by two,
sometimes three cameras at a time. And so of course that's all great when you grid it out on paper, but then you get boots on the ground there and you're like, oh, well, the trees didn't conveniently grow at all the right distance from each other for us to always have a perfect overlap, so you have to make
some concessions. And the same would be true that if you've got a host of seismic sensors that needed to be in a grid let's say, you know, twenty by twenty square feet apart, you know, whatever the case may be. And then you get to the point where it needs to be and well, now there's a rock. You can't dig in the ground there and put it there. Or there's a tree there, and so what are you going to do? Well, you have to put it somewhere around
the tree. So there's probably gonna be places where they're not overlapping, little gaps in your system where something can get through. And so the number of headaches that I could envision with seismic sensors just keeps growing and growing
the more I think about it. Yeah yeah, yeah, and again for what so that you would find out that like, oh, something heavy moved through here, and that maybe that's all the information you get, and so it's like, well, we did all that work for something that no one cares about.
Yeah yeah, So, Robert, that's I guess you didn't really ask for about our thoughts necessarily, you asked if they actually did it and whatever, But that's what you get from us more.
No, he did, he asked, He asked if this is something we should be pursuing.
Oh, oh, very good, was very good. I thought it was just like, had they actually done this and what results were there? I guess you always hear the question you wish you were asked, right, But yeah, that's our thoughts on that. I'm not sure that as far as bang for the buck and effort and stuff like that, I'm not sure there's much there. I mean, a lot
of people deploy them. Well not actually almost nobody deploys them, but I know a couple people that have deployed them or have them, but I'm not sure they've gotten anything at all from it except for just the joy of saying I got some technological toys that I put out there, and for a lot of people in bigfoot Land, that's enough, you know, And that's fun. And I'm not saying don't try it, but I think that we're both saying that
we don't. And those are the reasons why. But if that tickles your fancy, you know, if that is something that you want to pursue, by all means, do it and maybe maybe you'll get something amazing from it, and you know, publish something in the RhI or write some up and you know, maybe is there something we can learn from that? I don't know, but for me, not worth the hassle, not worth a hassle, and not worth the money, and not worth the time. Stay tuned for
more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. And you know, as far that thread thing, I was thinking, You know, you have to put it at a certain level to avoid deer, and gosh, deer are pretty big and they've got to be five feet tall or more. Oftentimes you have to put it probably six and a half seven foot up and catch the sasquatch across the face or something like
that with the thread. But that brought to mind that a good friend of mine, the guy named Alan, saw a sasquatch a couple of weeks ago and he saw the most frightening kind a three footer. So, and of course Alan's also a listener, so shout out to Alan there. Alan was down on the coast. He saw it in Cummin's Creek Wilderness area, which is a really really neat
wildernes area just north of Florence, Oregon. I went on years and years and years ago, probably twenty thirteen or something like that my good friend and excellent bigfoot or Chris Minier ran an expedition for the BFRO out of Florence,
and he asked if I could come down. And I hadn't seen Chris for a while, so I came down for a night and hung out with him, and I took a group out into the Common's Creek wilderness area on this trail and we ran into a sasquatch out there, banged a bunch of trees at us and ran and heard it running off, and it was a cool It was a cool event. So I said he was going to be down in Florence and I said hey, or he says to me, Hey, like, where should I go down in Florence area? I go, well, I don't know.
I don't get down there very often, but I did take a group into there and we ran across one He goes, oh, great, we'll go there. And it's kind of a funny story. And because he went to the ranger station when he was down there and he says, I want to go hiking in the Cummins Creek Wilderness area and the rangers like, oh that's great, that's great here blah blah blah, here's how you get in there.
And there's a trailhead and this and that, and Alan goes, non, I want to go in that road the other trail and the guy and the ranger goes, no, No, you don't.
Want to do that.
The trees are down, it's a terrible road, the road's blown out, there's flooding damage, blah blah blah, hard to get, hard to get anywhere in there. You don't want to go in there. And he goes, it's exactly where I want to go. And the ranger goes, well, why do you want to go there? And he goes, well, I want I'm going to go squatch it. I'm want to go look for sasquatches. And the guy laughed, and then
Alan goes, no, No, they're real, they're really, you know. And the guy kind of stopped laughing and said, well, I guess if they're going to be anywhere, that's where they're going to be, because no one goes in there, you know. And so he Alan went in there with his wife. But he was walking in there and he said, on the side of the road there were thirteen inch impressions, but they weren't very clear or anything like that, but there are space forty two inches apart, which is spot on.
That's textbook right there, you know, from you know, heel to heels forty two inches, that's textbook bigfoot there. And of course thirteen inch impressions right in there as well, no big deal thirteen fourteen inches. And you can think, well, but he says, I didn't know. I didn't didn't think that much of him, and not really sure.
Yea.
I think he also heard a mountain lion yowl at the trailhead. I think that may or may not be important as well, And I'll get to that in a second. So he's going in there, and about a mile and a half in he's ahead of his wife, and then he sees something black in color upright on two legs and about three feet tall or so, just rush across the road and then drop over the precipice the edge
on the side, and like he was startled. He took a couple of steps back and he goes, oh my god, what the the His wife says, what's wrong, honey, you know, you know, I think I just saw this, and you know, and they went and looked over the edge and they didn't see anything. And of course the thing was probably just hunker down waiting for him to leave. They did a recreation photograph and that sort of stuff, and he
was very, very bugged out. I spoke to him that night when he got back to the hotel room in Florence. I spoke to him, and he kept going, I don't know what I saw. I just don't know what I saw. I mean, I said, well, dude, it was it was upright and black in color. You know, that's probably a sasquatch. You probably saw a sasquatch, a three footer. And he said, so, I don't know. I maybe I just don't know what
else it could have been. It's like, I'm not going to try to convince you saw one only you know, of course, but but you know, so I thought that was pretty interesting. And then the next day they went to the other trailhead, the more easily accessible one, and they got there at pretty much at daybreak, you know, right at dust or dawn, rather the opposite of dusk. And the second they got out of their car from
one direction, they heard another mountain lion yell. And by the way, this trailhead, I guess is basically at the base of the ridge that he saw the thing on the day before. You know, we're very very close, not far away. So he heard another mountain lion yell and it was that's odd, And then he heard one from
the opposite direction. He goes, well, what's even odder, you know, And then then he heard a power knock from in between the two, and he goes home, and they actually were so scared they got back in the car, and I believe it was his wife who basically said, we got to not be whimps about this.
We got to go.
And then they went for a long, grueling high mostly uphill, et cetera, and whatever had to day. But now I'm wondering, of course, I'm like thinking back to one of our witnesses we had on the podcast a long time ago, who went by the name of Lance. He actually observed a sasquatch like he had his eyes on it when it made a mountain lion call, which is really interesting as far as like mimicking and all that stuff goes. But I'm wondering where those mountain lions at all.
That's a good question. And I would say if there's any sasquatch researchers in that area, that's exactly where you want to go, because if you take any lessons from analogous mammals, you would know that an animal occupies a home range. Within that home range, it has a territory, and within that territory, it will have a core area. And the best way to identify core areas of most species that are analogous would be to figure out where
the females and especially the juveniles are. And so if you needed like a codex for finding sasquatch core areas, you would pay attention to where sightings of females occur, and especially of juveniles. So if I was in an orgon, that's exactly where I'd be spending my time. Of recent juvenile siding is a very good sign, especially from a source that you know, you trust and find reliable.
Yeah, yeah, Allen's a good guy and he certainly wouldn't be making anything up. Worst case scenario and misidentified something. But he kept saying it was on two legs, and like, what else do you have? What else? He said? I said, Well, you have grandchildren. I mean, how old would this kid be? You know, if it was a I don't know, maybe seven, I think is what he said, seven years old and just running across a trail mile and a half up in a desolate sort of a wilderness area. I don't know.
I think he saw one. I think he saw one, and again I ran into one there, and he went there on my recommendation and saw one. How cool is that? And then heard other weird things. Yeah, if I lived in the Florence area, that's where I would be spending a lot of my time, a lot of my time because it's public land, easily accessible, and you know, co strange people here in I love the Coast Range, and I love the people that live there, but they're kind
of like people in Maine. They don't want anybody around. They live in a very isolated area to kind of keep people away. A lot of the area's private lands, so no one's allowed to be on it except in the sayas Law National forests and places like the wilderness areas and that sort of thing. So that to me just shouts go there, go there frequently. Because looking back on his first day, not only did he see that
three footer, he found thirteen or so inch footprints. I mean he didn't say footprints, he said impressions, but they were probably footprints. They were spaced appropriately. Yeah, that's probably mom and the kid right there. So go there. And of course if you do find anything cool, let me know. Let us know. Emailed the podcast. You Know the count be on podcasts at gmail dot com. Let us know
what you're finding them there. And of course all the bigfooters who actually are working that area are probably really pissed at me right now. But sorry, as far as I know, no one's working it.
You know, what's really funny is that people will reach out to me, very often, people I've only interacted with online or total strangers, and they'll be like, Hey, I live in this particular area. Where do you think I should go? And I'll give them places that I'm comfortable talking about. You know, hey, I think you should check out this area. And then we'll get a question like that on the podcast and I'll recommend the same area.
And then those people will reach out to me the initial question askers and they'll be like, hey, why are you telling people about my spot? I'm like yours spot. Like, first of all, I had no qualms telling you, and so I have no qualms telling someone else. And second of all, like you don't go out to those places. So it's a funny thing that happened. So I guess I can't fault people for that, but it is just a funny observation to have that happen so many times
over the years. It's that they'll ask me for input and then get upset that I gave the same input to someone else.
Yeah. Well, here's a news flash for everybody listening. Every every single official designated wilderness area in the United States is perfect bigfoot habitat. Go there, Okay, there you go. If you live anywhere near a wilderness area, go there. It's as simple as that. I'm not giving anything away.
And most public lands, and you know, if you were to look at a map, don't even worry about sasquatch reports. I mean, it's helpful to have, but you know, there's a lot of great places to where very few people go, and so you should not expect there to be sasquatch reports.
But look at a map, what's close to you and what looks like good habitat, And especially if you research other animal populations, like what's the bare density and what's the ungulate density, et cetera, et cetera, And you know, but if you're asking for input, I'll give it to you. And if someone else asked me for input and they're in the same general area, I'm going to give it to them too. And my favorite spots I'm not going to tell you about.
So yeah, I don't give away my fishing spots. You know. That's how I found one of my best spots is I just I was looking at apps and stuff like, oh wow, wow, that looks like it they should be there, And I started going there and shure up they were. We're getting Knox, we're getting calls. There's been a couple of sidings, there's been a couple of footprint finds there. I found a footprint there just a few weeks ago. Actually, So yeah, one of my favorite spots had no sidings,
no reports from it whatsoever. It just looked like they should be there. Which is a wilderness areas by the way, Cumm's Creek Wilderness Area. It doesn't really matter. Yeah, bull the woods down there on the Cala Wash. Of course they're in there. Of course they are. You know, you just look at a Forest Service map, any designated wilderness area or any area a big chunk of land with suitable habitat that there are no roads into. Yeah, that's where they are. Go there, it's not a secret. If
you didn't know that by now, then you don't. You don't deserve the specific locations. So exactly, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right back after these messages. All right, well, anyway, should we go onto the written questions?
Let's do?
Okay? The first written question comes from Neil and Marnie. Shout out to them, by the way, a long time listeners. They realterally enjoy the podcast, and thank you so much Neil and specifically to Marnie for listening. We really really do appreciate your ears on the podcast every single week, and then we're happy that we can give you some sort of some sort of smile on a weekly basis. Anyway, the question is what do you three think about coastal
environments as they relate to Sasquatch habitat and activity. Oh, well, you know, Bobo's not here obviously, so it's what do we too think? But Bubo lives on the coast, and I think that says a lot right there. He lives in the Arcada area of northern California and Humboldt County, and he moved there from southern California because it is bigfoot habitat. His best spot, or some of his best spots are like right on the coast up in the Redwood National Park and at Redwind National or State Forest.
I think it's called our state park up there. Some of his best spots are virtually hugging the ocean, and I think that says a lot about coastal habitat.
Wouldn't it be funny if we just lamited not giving away our best spots, But we just decided to give away all of Bobo's best spots since he's done here. I mean, no, we're not saying specifics, but we could you hear that, Bobo?
We could tell him, well, he said, yeah, we could. Yeah, you don't show up to a podcast and it's our rules, not yours, sorry Bobs. Yeah, but Bobo said several times in the podcast that he goes up to the Redwoods to go big footing. So I don't think I'm giving too much away here, but yeah, but I think that says a lot. So even though Bobo is not here to give his two cents about coastal habitat here. But
I think that that says a lot. He specifically moved there to see sasquatches because he he took logging jobs on the coast to do that. He started taking fishing jobs as how. He became a crab fisherman because he was hearing that these people were seeing him from the boats sometimes like on shore. That's why he did all these things. So that says a lot from Bobo, even though his voice is not on the air today. But as far as I'm concerned, I mean, that's where the
food was, you know. I mean, if things went sideways, and I mean for humanity, the coast would be the place to be because the ocean is just an abundant resource of food. I know, years and years and years ago, I went I met I flew down to Baja California, Mexico, and met some of my friends who were down there. They were down there for six months doing research for a sea kayak guide to book. You know, these are
like outdoors, these sort of folks. Obviously they're writing books about various sea kayak routes to take and stuff in Baja. And I met him down there, and you know, and We camped on the beach for a week, and virtually every day we kind of went swimming for lunch and dinner. Yeah, we went to the store and got carrots and some
vegetables and that sort of stuff. But and some beers, of course, But for the most part, the meat that we ate that week we got from the ocean that day, you know, whether we were fishing, or we were clamming, or you know, picking scallops and whatever off the rock, we went in the water and pulled the food out. So Baja is, of course exceptional, but in northern California or you know, Oregon and Washington, there is so much
food on the beach. I remember one time I was fishing in Redwood National Park, I think it is, and it was a gold Bluff beach, great little campsite on the ocean there. It's generally too crowded and you know, popular to get in most of the year, but I was. I was there in the winter or something like that, you know, so I got a spot in there. And I don't usually pay for camping anyway, but back then I did at that this night, because it's such a
great campsite. There's elk everywhere pushed up against the cliffs would be a lot easier to catch and kill if I didn't, you know, if I were a sasquat to that sort of thing. But I remember I was fishing. I was fishing for a barred surf perch. No, no, no, for a redtail surf perch at the time. And you know, so I was fishing in the ocean in the waves, you know, like probably kneedy water, that sort of stuff coming in and out. And I was casting or whatever.
A big wave came in and I stepped back, and that wave literally deposited a dungeness crab on the beach, not fifteen feet from me. And I just thought to myself, as I'm looking up and down this coast where there's absolutely zero people as far as the I could see except for me, but in beautiful redwoods and dense forests, like right there on the cliffs above me. Yeah, and somebody the ocean literally deposited a dungeness crab virtually at
my feet as I was standing there. And think, think how many times a day that happens within ten miles of that spot, you know, or up and down the coast in general. But like the ocean gives. I didn't need it a course, but I wasn't into it, you know at the time, and I didn't want to it and deal with it and get pinged and everything. But still, like, think about a sasquatch just roaming up and down the beach looking for things that the ocean deposited on the shoreline.
There's there's kelp. Most kelp is edible, of course, there's you know, uh dungeon is crab. There's various crabs of various source. You know, if you know where to look, you can put you can scoop your hand under the sand and come up with thirty or forty mole crabs. That's what I was doing as using those for bait
at the time. You know, occasionally a dead seal or a dead whale gets deposited on the shore and of course all the other animals take advantage of that, and human beings did as well for many, many long years. So yeah, the ocean is where it's at as far as easy food goes, So of course sasquatches utilize that. And of course we've also heard the stories of them digging clams and whatever else on you know, on those
low tides, especially up in PC. I know that doctor Bindernoggle was really interested in that aspect of it, as well as doctor Rob Allley. So, yeah, ocean, the ocean environment where the land meets the ocean is just a bountiful resource of food of virtually every kind you can imagine. So they would be a fantastic habitat for them. Yeah.
The BC Sunshine Coast and all that Pacific Coast is just incredible and obviously has a very long, very rich history of encounter and observation reports and incredible habitat. I would love to go up there if people are interested in reading about that region specifically. We had John Zada on a little while back in his book in The
Valleys of the Note Beyond. It's all focused on that particular region of British Columbia and it's amazing, and so once again I would highly recommend that or Rob Alley's Raincoast Sasquatch.
Oh yeah, yeah, Like all that stuff was around Ketcha Can and the islands offshore. So the Sasquatch is on islands. It tells you a lot. You know, there's a lot of food there and they take advantage of everything from the inland stuff like the deer and elk and I just mentioned elk are on the beach. They're on the beach, you know, so there's food of plenty. So yeah, any of these resources would be great. The Rob Alley book
or the is that a book? All these things I really like this next question, All right, well you want to read it?
Sure, I can read it. So this comes from our listener Nathan Craig, and he asks what things have been made easier and or more difficult when it comes to squatching in the last fifteen to twenty years or more.
You want to go first? Yes, I know you're chomping at the bid here.
You know. I think there are some things that have been made easier via the Internet, like being able to communicate and network with other researchers and share information and coordinate field efforts together. I mean, most of my field research partners are they live hours and hours and hours from me, and so you know, we're working on areas together that are central to us, and so they're nowhere
close to home. And that's all facilitated by the Internet and by the ability to you know, find information quickly about these habitats and about the history of reports and places to access and all of the above, and then obviously other technological advances. So there's a lot of things that have been made easier that I cannot imagine how hard it would have been if I was a sasquatch researcher in the fifties or sixties, in the early days
of the four Horsemen and those types. I think the things that have made it more difficult are related to a lot of the same issues, and specifically with the interconnectivity of people and the Internet and the speed at which information moves in that we're in this environment that you know, there's a lot of people that are involved in this subject that their primary focus is about their
presence online. Now they might have communities they've built by which you know, we're no different, although you know, you guys built a community in a different way, you know, through years of research and networking and then through a television series, and then by the time we launched this podcast, you know, there was already an existing community around that.
But like, here's a good example. So very recently, a friend of mine was on a field excursion and something occurred and phone calls were made between people who were also there and then someone who wasn't there posted about it and made claims about what had happened that bore
little to no resemblance to what actually happened. And then before anyone could correct the record, a number of people with their own platforms, podcasts, YouTube channels, social media outlets, et cetera, were reporting on the claims that this person who wasn't there made at all, saying like that they basically had an inside scoop and that if you wanted to learn more and follow for updates, you know, make sure that you like and subscribe and keep a close
eye on their channels because they would bring you the news as it broke. And so of course I got inundated with messages from people like, hey, do you know anything about this? And I was having to be very careful because I don't want to compromise the people that were actually there and in this situation, because it's their story to tell I equally was not there. But I was saying, well, you know, I do have a friend who was there, and what's being said is not exactly
what happened. And then I was able to review the evidence that was collected and come to a conclusion about what actually happened, so beyond just hearing the claims of my friend who was there, I actually saw what was
collected in that case. But the news, the sensational version, had spread so quickly and so many people had bent it to serve their own goals in terms of entertaining, captivating, or motivating their own audiences, that if I were to go and try to correct the record, well it would have taken, you know, one hundred times more energy than I was willing to expend on it. And also, again I think it's the responsibility of the people who are
actually there to lay out what happened. That's just one example of something I see happening over and over again, and that the vast majority of things I read online in the Sasquatch space are just so wildly inaccurate, and most of it is not malicious, The vast majority of it is not. It's well meaning people with good intentions reporting what they heard or what they think they heard.
And I just come from a different school of thought and of action in that, you know, I've been very fortunate I have a bit of a different life than many of these other people in that, you know, I've always had the energy and the time and the bandwidth to devote serious attention and energy to all these things.
And so many times people will tell me, oh, well, here's the deal with such and such, you know, pick a case out of a hat, and I'll be like, okay, well, why do you think that it's something that they heard third hand on a podcast channel? And very often in these cases it just happens to be the case that like, oh no, well, I actually know those investigators, and I know that witness, and I've been to that property and I spent a lot of time there. Here's what actually happened.
Or nope, you know, have you ever read this book? No, I've never read it. Okay, well, here's what actually occurred according to the people that were there, not the sixth hand version that you heard in you know, a forty
five second reel on a social media platform. And so all of that makes it very difficult where the facts have been so obscured or lost that you could imagine that, you know, we're in this field of sasquatchery, you know, and if you used an analogy like okay, this is a territory, a geographical space, Well, we have this center that existed for so long. That's the sort of like
established facts as the best we know them. And then as you get more familiar with that center, you get better and better at being able to go out to the frontier into the what we don't know yet or what we're trying to know, and encounter new things and responsibly discern those against information that's not necessarily related to
useful and bring that back to the center. And I feel like with the advent of social media and the Internet, we've completely lost the center, and I spend more time trying to re establish that center so that people know where we are here in twenty twenty four. I mean, I think we all do that, Like that's part of why I wrote the book. I think that's part of
why Mark Marcell digs into Ape Canyon. That's part of why you reinvestigated the Bosberg events or the Freeman evidence or the Blue Mountains evidence, etc. Is that we're trying to re establish that center because these things that were known not that long ago now seem to be so lost in the wind, and people don't have the same foundation that they used to have. And I think a lot of that is driven by this social media environment.
Where people are competing with not only each other, but with these algorithm in order to drive visibility, in order to grow their audiences, et cetera. And that has made a lot of this endeavor so much more difficult than it used to be. So I know that's a very long answer, but that's what I see happening. It's very frustrating.
Oh yeah, yeah. Social media is a plague. Yeah it is. And it's not only social media that you're talking about, but we now live in a world of influencers as opposed to researchers essentially, and that's the Bigfoot community has kind of been taken over by that, unfortunately. And I know that people out there, but well, if you're an influencer, yeah, but I don't want to be. I don't care if anybody listens. You know, I'm doing this anyway, is what it comes down to. I would be doing this if
nobody was watching. And I'm not sure that's true for a lot of the people who are out there on podcasts and websites and facebooks and things like that. You know, so social media I read this. I think this is a an approximate quote. Social media allows darkness to spread at the speed of light, you know, and that darkness comes in many forms like misinformation or hoaxes, or narcissism or any variety of things, you know. And I think that's probably the most difficult thing that has happened the
big footing in the last fifteen to twenty years. To get back to Nathan's question, but also at the same time, every curse has a blessing, and vice versa, every blessing has a curse. John Green was commenting on the advent of the Internet and how it would have affected his work.
Because I don't have the exact numbers or anything like that, but I think by the time he wrote his book that I think was published in seventy eight, if I remember right, Sasquatch Apes among us, I think he has something like seventeen hundred sightings, sixteen hundred sightings or something like that. Well that's from nineteen, you know, fifty six, I think is when he started to nineteen seventy eight, you know, So that's just a few decades. That's nothing. Nowadays,
that's nothing. I mean, I accrued that many sighting reports I think written siding reports in just like five or ten years, just by being out there, and I'm not the biggest platform by far, you know, so it did get easier to find sasquatch reports, to connect with other bigfooters, to find information networking in general, you know, and I know, for me personally, weather reports and snow depth maps and
that sort of stuff, extremely valuable information available online. But at the same time, the dark side of that is, you know, the whole social media influencer folks jumping up and down saying look at me, look at me, look at me me, and very few people are left pointing at the sasquatch and saying look at them. So that's that's my biggest woe I think with bigfoot stuff is that it's always has been that way. You know, it's just a different form now and it's a lot faster
now and the misinformation spreads much more quickly. The gossip essentially that bigfoot has always been a gossipy game, whether we're talking about the hindon the Green and Peterburn era, you know, or nowadays on Facebook, you know, that sort of stuff. But it's always been very gossip oriented because not a lot of bigfoot stuff goes on, you know, there aren't footprint finds, you know every day, or their new videos aren't being taken, new film, you know, that
sort of stuff. There's not a lot of big breakthroughs. Scuokom cast level stuff is rather rare, and because of that, and people love the subjects so much, they want to talk about the other people instead of the animals. And I think it's just better for all of us to stay focused, stay focused on what's important. The Sasquatches are important, not the people who look into it, you know, And it's the evidence, it's not the people again, So that's my answer for you, Nathan.
Yeah, I agree with all that, and I don't think it's restricted to the Sasquatch subject. I just see it everywhere that I look, you know, with all the subjects that I'm interested in and pursuits that I have and subjects that I follow, And so I think it's just a symptom of that particular environment, of the online environment. It drives certain behaviors and you know, it comes along with certain temptations, and you know, obviously we're in the
same space. I mean, we have a podcast and we have an audience, and we would like for those things to grow, and we do our very level best to always be accurate, and so of course we're going to make errors and faux pause. And again, when I am speaking about the things that I see, I'm not attributing malice to those people. I think in most of those cases, a lot of the things that get passed around as misinformation, it's just you've taken an oral tradition and extended it
to the internet. So it's just the spreading of folklore and mythology. But it's just in this digital format, and those people are not intending to mislead other people. They are reporting on what they believe to be true. Although the frustration is that, well, if more diligence was done, they could have easily come to their own conclusions that no, in fact, the story is much different than it's being reported, or the facts are not being presented, and what's being
presented instead or counterfactual. But I think because of the need for speed in that environment, to be first to print, so to speak, first to publish, like they're competing with each other, so that their episode or video on this subject has that primacy effect and it's the first to talk about it, and so they don't have they're not affording themselves the luxury of doing the deep dive and diligence and things like that, and those are all just frustrations.
So again, I'm not castigating anyone as much as I'm just lamenting the state of affairs that is brought about by social media and all those drivers and incentives that people have. It just makes it a difficult game.
You kids, get off my lawn.
Yeah, exactly. And you know, if this technology had been around when I first got into the subject, I would be doing the same thing. Because when I first got into the subject and was young, you know, it took
me years to find another researcher that I could speak with. Honestly, I mean I would reach out to people, nobody would respond, you know, because I was some young kid from Georgia basically, and you know, I wasn't in the Pacific Northwest, and I didn't have experience, and I didn't have people who could vouch for me in the field, and so you know, if I could have built my own online thing and
talk to people about it, I would have. You know, It's just that YouTube didn't exist back then and social media didn't exist back then. So you know, the only thing that separates me from those people of a younger age, is that, like, well, they have access to a technology
that I didn't. So I'm again, I'm not making any sort of moral judgments or value judgments as much as I'm just trying to explain to Nathan, like that's it's a frustrating thing to see, because man, I love details, like I want to know anyone who knows me personally will tell you, like the things that I love, I will obsessively learn every single thing I can about it, Like if I fall in love with the band, I will get obsessed with their entire catalog and everything they've
ever done. I'm either I don't like it or I'm obsessed with it, Like I'm not a casual fan of many things, and so I guess part of me expects that people who are into the Sasquatch will be as into all the digging and searching and foraging for information and trying to get to the bottom of things as
I am. And that's just an unrealistic expectation. I have to keep that in mind that like, oh, well, you know, for other people, they're just having fun and there's nothing wrong with that, but for me, like it it tears me up when something' is like, oh no, you were so close, but you missed it this that or the other. And you know, I'm trying to preserve again that center of reliable information because we are trying to get somewhere.
You know, no one's proved that these things are real, and no one's accurately tested these hypotheses to a conclusion, and so it's it's frustrating to see missed opportunities like that. But oh well, such as the nature of life, I suppose.
I still struggle with the idea that there are casual fans of Bigfoot, not that I don't realize they're there. You know, I have, but I forget all the time because I'm just so over the top and obsessed. And you know, if I'm not in the woods, I have I fear of missing out Foma pretty bad. Just yesterday, I was like, going, gosh, darning, you know what I thought,
Uh see, I thought our podcast was yesterday. And when I figure, oh, shoot, I could have gone to the woods today, I didn't go, And then I wonder if I can go tomorrow after No, I got to go to work tomorrow after, you know, and I'm thinking, oh, I got to go and I realized, oh, well, you know what, this will be the first week that I can remember that I didn't go Bigfoot at least once,
you know. I mean, i'd have to think all the way back to like spring or fall or something, and with my memory, that's that's kind of stretching it, you know. But then I realized, wait, I was out on Monday. I did go this week, So I thought I was going to take a week off, and that didn't even work out because I'm just so obsessed with it. So the fact that people would like, oh, I like Bigfoot. You know, I know Roger Patterson's name, and I know Bob Gimlin was with them, and I watched the TV
shows and you know, and that sort of stuff. I forget that are people like that instead of people like you and I, who like, we're calling people to try to find out these nitty gritty details from you know,
decades ago, and are there any photographs of this? Like oh my god, and like when we score a photograph or a piece of footage of a footprints in the ground or something, I'm just over the top and like I'm riding high for like two weeks on that, you know, I forget that there are people out there who just
are interested in the subject. And I should know better because I'm at the museum a lot, and when people tell me, you know, generally speaking, most stuff I hear is like sound events, and I'm a hunter and fishermen, and I've never heard such a thing. And so I and yeah, I'm thinking to myself, yeah, they're real. And I usually said, yeah, it turns out the real animals, and then they go on a lengthy five or eight minute explanation about how nothing else could have made that noise.
It's like, well, yeah, yeah, so, and but that's that's a consequence of being a casual fan, is that you're still stuck in the are they real? Question?
And that's the beauty of like when you find like minded people. I mean, people might be shocked to find out that because you know, we record all the time, but like you and I, for example, speak on the phone for at least a couple of hours a week about sasquatch stuff, sometimes more, you know, like we're always getting into the weeds and that stuff. So it's not like we only talk when we're recording this show. We're
always talking squatch. And you know, it reminds me of like there's bands that I love that they've never really crossed into the mainstream, and so, you know, I'll do all this searching as I've moved around the country and people talk about music, and I'll be like, oh, what about this band? Like ninety nine percent of the people you encounter like I never heard of them, you know, or oh, I remember that one song on the radio
because they might have had like one minor hit. And then you know, they'll play like a reunion show and you go there and you're in a room with three thousand other people who know every single word to every song, and this thing matters to everyone in that room as much as it matters to you, and it's like, Oh, you found your people there for a moment, you know.
And I feel the same way with certain researcher friends, where it's like, like we've mentioned before, Oh, he's a lifer, she's a life Like that's someone who really gets it, you know, and it's so few and far between, and so it's a it's a special thing. But yeah, I think that's again the costs and benefits. The benefit of all this social media and internet stuff is that it is. It does make it easier to find your people in
that regard too. You know, there's all sorts of people I met as a consequence of this and the online connectivity that I wouldn't have met otherwise that I've learned so much from, you know, So I'm equally grateful as much as I am frustrated by this thing.
Yeah, yeah, but all the goods man, that sigal noise ratio is just off the charts as far as the internet goes.
Well, speaking of our people, I think we have some great questions that came in from the members for the members only Q and A, which you know for new listeners. We always record the members episodes as soon as we're done, we're recording me. So if you're a new member, you're going to get this. This is Monday hopefully when you're hearing this when it's released and the bonus episodes come
out on Thursdays. But so, I think this would be a good time to pivot and answer some questions from our people there.
Yeah, I think so. I think so. I mean, and you know what, we've didn't get through a lot of questions. I think we had a lot of good discussions in this episode, and Boba will be back with us as soon as he's able to sin as he gets through the quagmire, this temporary quagmire that he's stuck in. So yeah, why don't we go on to do the members episode
right now? And of course people can be members by going to the website, hitting that membership button and learning all about it if they're into it, and if not, that's cool too. We have casual listeners, I bet too, but for the diehards, we got a membership section, so well, I guess with that, then why don't we get out of here? And thank you very much for listening. We really do appreciate every single ear and every pair of ears that is put on our podcast every single week.
And I mean otherwise we just be sitting around talking about Bigfoot without you, by the way, which we would be doing anyway. Again, everybody on this podcast, Bobo, Matt and I are all lifers. We would be sitting around having very similar conversations. The only difference is that you, most important person on this call, would not be with us. So thank you very much for being with us, and until next week, keep a squatchy. Thanks for listening to
this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond.