Ep. 281 - Talkin' Topics!

that BLM land and only one house up there. Really there's two houses, a rental house and the guy who lives up there. It's about a hundred hundred and fifty acres that the guy owns and the rest of it his public land for quite a while, quite a ways. And yeah, I've heard some stuff around the house. I think we have bigfoots every once in a while. I probably noticed them two times a year, maybe three year

or four if you include Melissa's noticings as well. And I think I mentioned this on the podcast about a year and a half ago or something. I remember it was winter, maybe it was. I don't think it was his past winter. I think it was the one before.

My neighbor was walking her dogs over there, and she was walking down the road and there was still snow in the ground walking down the road, and then at some point there was like a series of knocks, like really loud knocks when she's walking her dogs, and her dogs all looked as she goes, oh, that's weird, you know. And this woman doesn't believe in sasquatches. She thinks I'm a weirdo, right, and I may or may not be a weirdo, but that you know, she also doesn't believe

in sasas watches. So she's and she goes, ah, okay, that's odd. Something must have fallen out of the train and she walks another you know, half mile or mile down the road, just walking her dog. Soon her thing comes back and at the same place that happens again, bam bam bam bam bam or something like that. And that time she said, no, that's scared the hell out of her. Basically, you know, she didn't think that sasquatches are real. She probably still doesn't, but she can't explain

what she heard. It's clearly not anything falling, and it really scared her. And I got a text from her when she was still in realized, like, Cliff, you know how you feel about these things. This just happened, And I went ooh, you know, cause that's right next door, man, That's like a mile from my house, you know. So I sit down there on the side by side and

walk around for like an hour and a half. I don't find anything long and short of it, but so, you know, so stuff happens out there, basically is my point, you know, on the other side of it, you know, like another two miles down that same road, when there's actually people living. Everybody has like five to twenty acres.

And I said, well, it could be cats. He goes, well, I don't know about that. Maybe you know, but still, yeah, he's heard some stuff he can't explain up there, but has never seen anything or whatever. He told me that that property used to be a nursery for exotic species like non native, non organ native species, which is why he was down on my property recently with the mill

doing stuff with the neighbors. Because he had a chestnut tree on his property, and chestnuts are very rare because of a blight that happened back east and all that other stuff, you know, So he had some really unusual trees and endangered tree and chestnuts, great wood for outdoor furniture and all this other stuff. So he was milling up a chestnut tree on his property and he's, you know's were their handful of other ones. And of course

chestnut trees make chestnuts. Bears and other animals love chestnuts. But still, I thought that was kind of interesting. It's like, oh, isn't that something that whole property there was actually a nursery for non native species, thus in creating a larger, you know, variety of you know, plant life and stuff. That's interesting. That's an area I got to continue looking into. And you know, that's the first time I'd ever met that particular neighbor because he is like a mile and

a half down the road or something. But he did say, yeah, if you ever want to come walk around on the property and look for your big friends, you're welcome to ooh yeah, very cool. So anyway, so that's kind of interesting news because I know they're near my house sometimes I just don't know when, unfortunately, But still, how cool is that exotic plant nursery you know, decades and decades and decades ago right next door that might be drawing in a slightly higher number of animals that are looking

for a variety of plant life. You know, I know there are a lot of bears over there, you know, all the neighbors and stuff. They go bear hunting and stuff over there. So anyway, I thought that was kind of cool.

Smallest armbone in the human fossil record, sheds light on the dawn of Homo flurisiensis. Now, of course, Homo fleurixiensis is is an important topic for bigfooters. For anybody interested in this kind of subject like bigfoots and yeties and stuff, you really really ought to be looking into human evolution. It is just full of good information that is directly pertaining to the sasquatch subject, you know, because clearly sasquatches are related to us and just like all the other

ape species. So if you're a longtime listener a Bigfoot and Beyond, you know that we've had doctor Fourth on doctor Gregory Fourth on the podcast before he wrote a couple of very very important books because he's a very well respected anthropologist and he is a proponent of the idea that some small hominin unknown species of upright ape is still alive on the island of Flores, which is super important because that's where the fossils for Homo fleuresiensis

come from. Homo fluresiensis made big news back in the early two thousands. At some point, they.

Homo floresiensis. These things were small, they're about three feet tall a little bit more. And a new species was based on one individual specimen that was unearthed in two thousand and three from a cave called lang Bua. I think it's I don't know, that's how you pronounce it sounds right? Yeah, Well, thank you, thank you. I am not even close to fluent in Indonesian, so I think

you for your help there, bobo. Yeah. So in two thousand and three they unearthed are an individual of a new species and they named it Homo fleuriesiensis after the island of Flores, right, Flores fluriesi ences And after much wrangling and going back and forth, they've kind of settled on this idea that it probably went like the fossils are from about fifty thousand years ago, but it was a singular specie or singular specimen from the species, right,

so oh, we need to learn more. So obviously they've been digging around quite a bit in that general area since then, and at some point they ran across elements of three different individuals from a site about thirty or so miles to the east at a place called Mata Mangay I think Mennge. I'm not sure if it's Mangay or Mange, I'm not sure, but either way, about thirty miles to the east they ran across three new individuals, but at first they mostly had teeth. By my reading

of it, they mostly had teeth. They didn't know much about it, and the teeth that they had looked like it was kind of like Homo fleuresiensis, maybe a little bit more archaic, a little bit earlier in the fossil record. They had some The dentation is kind of similar to homorectus in some ways. But they kept digging around and they finally found some post cranial fossils. Post cranial, of course, is the way people say fossils from below the skull.

Post cranial makes sense right below the skull. So in other words, they got something else besides a tooth or a mandible or a part of a cranium. And this was a small segment of an armbone. Now, based on what they learned from Homo threes diensists and some other general you know, palewanthropological measurements, they're guessing that this particular individual that they have the armbone for was about one

hundred centimeters tall. That's about thirty nine inches tall, you know, something like that, just a meter shall we say a meter tall, a little bit more than a yard. Well, it's interesting, and it was super interesting to them because it is smaller. It's six centimeters shorter than what they guess at the first specimen of Homo three dances was. Now you said, well, you're saying, well, six centimeters that's

not very much, and you're right, it's not. So the question is does this represent some sort of sexual dimorphism? And you know, I don't even know, now that I'm saying that out loud, I don't know what the sex of that first specimen was, so anyway, or does it just show us some sort of you know, genetic variation within the species, because I mean, obviously, like I'm five foot eight, Bobo's about nine foot ten or something like that. So there's obviously a lot of you know, within the

same species, there's a lot of variation. And you figure out it's only six centimeters, but now consider that this thing's you know, about one hundred centimeters. That's a six percent difference. That's pretty big, you know, that's a five or six percent difference between these two species. That's pretty big, you know. So I don't know, I don't know. But the article it really seems to side with this idea that the Homo three dances species is coming from Homo erectus.

But I'd like to point out that that's not necessarily true. That's not necessarily true.

small back then, and actually even smaller that they're like, well, it appears that some Homo erectus ended up on this remote Indonesian island about a million years ago and then rapidly underwent a dwarf asm, which is like, now, the further back in time you look to still see this really diminutive size sort of indicates that they probably were somewhere close to that size prior to arriving on this island, at least that would be my interpretation of that. So

I found that kind of funny. You ever read doctor Meldrim's early I wouldn't quite call it a rebuttal, but it's sort of like his way in on what he felt was like a premature designation of fluoresciences to the genus Homo. He recently actually reposted that online, but the article the version that he posted are like screenshots of the PDF, so it's not like something I can link to.

But I do have all these screenshots. In fact, I'll post them for members and maybe in the meantime I can email him and say, hey, is there a link to a PDF or a link to a written article online so we could post it easily for people to read the text without having to see like four different image files. But you know, Meldrim has been making this case for a long time that Noah doesn't seem like having descended from erect is the most likely or the more parsimonious hypothesis here.

I can't place it. So actually, I just like a week a couple of weeks ago, I bought her book and it is in Q to be read very very soon. So I'm really interested in reading what her book is about her conclusions in the book, and I need to I probably need to dig up her paper paper on this and take a look.

Lots and lots of Homo erectus fossils are found in Africa, but they're also found in other places, and in fact, everybody, most people, I think I've probably heard of Java Man. That was the type specimen, that was the holotype for the species Homo erectus, and it was found in Java,

hence the name Java Man. So the very holotype, the very first specimen of Homo erectus was found in Indonesia, so very very interesting, you know, and of course home Erectus isn't really I wouldn't really call that an archaic species, you know, very very successful. They were, you know, five feet tall, five and a half feet taller, so they use fire. They were very pretty pretty advanced, you know, they weren't. Aren't that far from us honestly back in

time and in other ways as well. Probably, But the fact that they're legitimate scientists, you know, are pointing out that Homo fleur is the insists is pretty our kick. If they're not australopithescenes, they're early early homo habilists. That is significant because it shows that kind of inhuman homonym

hominin's with an N at the end remember hominin. Just remind everybody hominin with an N is any human relative doesn't have to be an ancestor, but it can be relative that is on the family tree at any point since chimpanzees and humans last shared a common ancestor. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. But anyway, fleur is ensists in Indonesia, on the Island of Flores, and perhaps other places too. Well, well, you look at the

Philippines with Homo luzon ensists. Probably something very similar. An early archaic hominin did in fact radiate out of Africa, and that is super important because it lays the foundation

for sasquatches essentially. You know, back in the seventies or whatever, sixties and seventies, when all the paleoonthropologists were saying, no, no, big butt isn't real because it can't be real, you know, there are One of the reasons they had is that, like, we don't have any early human fossils anywhere else except for Africa. Basically, you know, maybe Java man was discovered at that point. I don't know when that came up, but still you hear what I'm saying, because sasquatches are

clearly rather archaic. You know, they probably have a fairly small brain despite their large size, you know, proportionally small brain. They don't show any signs of fashioning tools, really nothing that we can be pointed to. They don't have stuff, which is kind of one of the defining characteristics of humans. And a lot of ways they're just simply not humans. Right,

there's something else. They're sasquatches, you know, they don't have to be human like you respected their sasquatches and the fact that an early archaic hominin did radiate out of Africa is significant for the sasquatch argument, I think very much.

So at least they do sort of nod to that, But you know, it ends on that quote from Professor Brumm saying, quote, the new fossils strongly suggest that the Hobbit story did indeed begin when a group of early Asian hominins known as Homo erectus somehow became isolated on this remote Indonesian island perhaps one million years ago and

underwent a dramatic body side reduction over time. So again, the further we look back in time, they're pushing that dwarfism into a smaller and smaller timeframe to say, well, they arrived perhaps a million years ago, and by seven hundred thousand years ago they were what'd you say about thirty nine inches tall. That is a pretty dramatic change

in a very short amount of time. So I do think it seems more parsimonious that like, well, no, it's probably the case that they were of small stature before they arrived on that island, but time will tell.

that they were trending towards a larger size. But I think with just these isolated cases, it's hard to make that proposition. But at least it suggests that that possibilities open.

to remember. But you know, the first specimen that was unearthed in two thousand and three, that individual, Okay, we had one individual from that cave, just one, and now we have I think ten other fossil specimens, ten other bones if you want to say, you know, teeth or bones, and of four additional individuals, and all of that stuff. Of the of the four new ones, all of that stuff is our teeth and mandibles and cranium except for

a partial armbone. So the jury is still we have a lot of learning to do about Homo flre exiances. Still we have five individuals documented in the fossil record now, just five out of the potentially thousands that have existed over time. So we'll hang out, wait and see. But all of this stuff, I think really is fantastic for the idea of relatiominoids in that part of the world. It really really says something about how little we know and how much we still have to learn, and especially

about the possibility of relict species. You know, small numbers of these things hanging on and far flung corners of the world, just hanging on by a thread, a few hundred or maybe a thousand individuals at the most, basically living under the nose of the humans that live there.

compelling case. And it's just very sad and frustrating that he wouldn't be asked to comment on some of these things, because he's one of the few people that's spent a tremendous amount of time there getting contemporary stories and his familiarity with these fossils themselves.

something to these stories. And you would think that, well, the more evidence that emerges that suggest that, like, oh, it is an interesting that the stories of this diminutive hominin happen to be in a place where fossils of diminutive hominins are being unearthed, should give it some weight or credence. But people are silent.

Let's go to flores with Gregory Fourth and get some of these eyewitnesses on camera and see some of these locations. But it just doesn't seem to be a lot of interest. I do think it's there's a market difference between the way that it grips you in terms of the concept of an eight foot tall, you know, eight hundred to one thousand pound ape is pretty terrifying, whereas like the diminutive ones maybe not so much. So it's not as

gripping a narrative. So maybe that's part of it, is that they're not quite monstrous enough.

I reject their interpretations. I always ask, well, have you seen the documentary and they've all said no. I'm like, well, you should see it, because it's one thing to read about the finds in text and read the rebuttals and texts, and it's another thing to sort of take a digital virtual journey there. And it's a compelling thing. And I'd love to at least take a virtual journey to Flores and see this stuff and hear from those witnesses too.

in my head, so yeah. At those people there who claimed that the Ebu Gogo was around until about two hundred years ago also claim that the lasts of the Ebugogo were killed in a cave, which is an interesting thing and now that I think about it, because there's all sorts of stories here in North America from the native people about Sasquatches being killed in caves and burnt and seal off the caves and was allowed to go

into that sort of stuff. But there is a cave there, and there was some talk by some PhDs I know of going there and excavating that cave, but they could never get the funding and they ran into a lot of problems with permits. Actually I remember that was a big deal as well. The permitting process was very, very difficult. And of course the area is just politically turbulent, I think is a good way to say it, in a

lot of ways. So I guess that's probably some of the challenges that these scientists face nowadays, whether they're working on flues or anywhere else for that matter, down in Indonesia. But I would like to see something come from that. Let that come to fruition at some point, because two hundred years ago there might be bones still, there might actually be legitimate bones of what they claim to be ebigogo if that story is true, you know, if it's not like twisted bolk tales of some sort.

the public and experts in particular for input. They call it a consultation period, so they'd like to pass a law. They're talking about what this law might look like. So now they're going to experts and saying, hey, give us your input here so we can sculpt something that's appropriate

for the animals. Because we're legislators, we don't know anything, so like, experts, tell us what you think about this, and of course the public as well, because the public are the ones that have to probably vote on this if there's voting involved, or at least influencing their legislators.

So basically the bottom line is that Spain has recognized that great Apes probably deserves some higher level of protection because of their higher level of of awareness of cognition in general, and they are trying to pass a law that basically gives great apes some sort of very basic

human rights. Human rights. I mean, we're not talking about healthcare or something like that, or clean water necessarily, it's more along the lines with better protection that mostly stops them from being exploited commercially and other items that conflict with their dignity. Now, dignity is a pretty loose and squishy term to be used.

eight feet tall. They're clearly not almost apiens, right, And in fact, I even counter that, and I'm sure, much to the chagrin of some of the people listening and probably at the conferences as well, that I think it's disrespectful to treat sasquatches as humans because they're not humans and they have different needs than human beings, do you know.

And I always use my dog as an example. I love soci I love my dog, you know, second probably only to my wife, right, But if I treat her as a human, they could end up killing her because chocolate and onions and stuff like that kill dogs, you know, and she surely wants chocolate. I'm not going to give it to her right, But anyway, Yeah, it's I think inappropriate to treat sasquatches as humans and any great but

great apes. They are kind of humany, just like humans are definitely kind of ap and I think that this law recognized, or this this proposal of a law recognizes that, and it is a huge step forward for the protection of apes and maybe cetaceans too, as I mentioned earlier. But it also I'm generally for any law that increases human compassion for our friends here about the sasquatch. Oh,

they're human, they're people, that kind of thing. I had a discussion years ago with a very very smart researcher and it was brought up that like, no, no, no, Cliff, people don't understand how great apes are, how fantastic, and how how smart they are, and how aware they are, the fact that they mourn they're dead, the fact they feel compassion, they work together, they make They don't understand how advanced apes are. So we should categorize or we

should talk about humans. I mean the sasquatches as if they're humans, because that's the only way that people are going to respect them in such a way to protect them and I still grapple with that. Do we actually change our language and behavior in order to accommodate the people who are just unaware, Like, do we drop our actions and language, you know, to accommodate people who I've

never bothered to learn about these things? And I get it, not everybody needs to know about how you know, chimpanzees mourn their dead or something like that. That's not a very useful thing to know in our society day. I get that there's only so much time of the day, right, But at the same time, do I need to dumb it down? I don't think so. I don't think so.

I think we need to educate people to bring them up because you know, I get this a lot, actually I get this a lot on the paranormal side of people. For some reason, you just treat these things as dumb apes that were dumb apes or that term, and thinking who's the dumb ape?

And I always define it. But then people go, oh, you shouldn't say that, because when squatchers hear habituation, they think about sasquatches stealing pancakes or knocking on the door asking for garlic because of the mythos. And I'm like, well, that's not my problem. It is not my problem that

the term has been bastardized to that degree. Now I will define it in the technical term, but I am not going to stop using the correct technical terms just because some portion of some subculture community has bastardized the term where they're not aware of what it truly means.

And so yeah, I'll do that very often because I think it is a disc service to say, well, we'll change the nomin Clayton will change the language to accommodate these people who just aren't aware of the technical definitions of these things or the true definitions of these things. And I just don't think that's right, because you wouldn't want to deal with someone who cared about you, who said, well, you know, I'll change the way I deal with Cliff.

I won't be honest, and I won't use big words because he might not like them, Like, well, that person's not on your side, you know, And so like I am on the audience's side. If I'm in the audience, I want the speaker to be on my side, and so like, no, I'm so staunchly against dumbing things down for people, or assuming that it even needs to be dumbed down for an audience when it's like, well, maybe one or two people will take issue, but don't punish everyone else for that.

about necessarily, you know, the ones like the stuff. You know, they do specifically mention zoos, but I think zoos definitely have to hold a place in society with endangered animals. And if I remember right, if I remember correctly, I believe all the grade ape species at this moment are endangered, some critically so, like the Mountain grill. I think we're down to about three hundred individuals, give or take a dozen or two. That's pretty low, man, it's pretty low.

But they're basically saying that, like these things should not be held in like shown to the public in some sort of exploitive way.

are sanctuaries. In fact, there was. It might still be open, but as of this recording, I'm not sure. I'll have to look and see, but there was a gorilla sanctuary in North Georgia not far from Blue Ridge actually that house such animals. And there's a chimpanzee sanctuary. There's a great documentary series right now that's pretty wild that's produced by the same guy who did Tiger King. So it's along those same sort of like narrative lines called Chimp

Crazy that I just finished. I would say it's probably not for the faint of heart, so viewer discretion is advised. But you know, it features a number of those things. But I think some zoos or places that are open to the public are probably good options for an animals like that who need to be rehomed.

you know, the variety of the genetics. I could see that, but it's to me, it's just a matter of space.

But maybe for a smaller subset of people than the ones you describe, Bobbo, like people who just want to go and stare and bang the glass and get a reaction, you know, dumb kids and stuff.

couple of feet away from something like that. It's a really powerful thing to be that close to an animal like that, and it changes you, you know, and it changes the way you read about those animals or when you watch documentaries because now you have this experiential almost like participatory element because you've been that close, albeit through glass.

and stuff. She's doing janitorial work, and if she finished early, you know, she like had forty five minutes early. She finished all of her responsibilities early in the morning. What she would do is she would go in the grilla. I can't say inside the grilla enclosure, that's not what

she did. But the gorillas had a pretty large outside enclosure and there was a troop of them out there, and then there was like a you know, one of these fake cave sort of things where you go inside there and there's glass and you know, if you're lucky, maybe there's a grilla on the other side. She would go in there almost every day that she was, at

least when she finished her responsibilities early. And there was one gorilla name Hope I believe her name was, who was kind of a newbie to the troop in a way, and the other troop members kind of bullied her and all that sort of stuff, and Hope would come in and like legitimately, Melissa would hang out with Hope for like forty five minutes or an hour and they would just hang out together on opposite sides of the glass.

Like Melissa would sit down and Hope would come in and see her and come over and sit on the other side of the glass, and Melissa just it was such a powerful experience being right there face to face with that, and like, Hope would would do things like she would point out wounds on her hand to Melissa that the other that the other gorillas had given her because they kind of bullied this particular animal Hope and like and point out and they you know, and Melissa

would talk. Melissa is very very compassionate. Obviously, she waves the dogs, you know, when she's sad. We go out and would take a ride in the car and who waves the dogs? I do too, by the way, But and she would she actually built a relationship with this with this animal, you know, with this gorilla. Hope was later actually traded to the Dallas Zoo. Which is kind of cool too because I did create Woolheater's conference a few years back down in Texas and Texas Pickbook Conference.

We flew in and out of Dallas, and we we we uh managed our flights so we could drop by the Dallas Zoo for a couple hours before we caught our flight and Melissa got to see Hope again.

infection a few years later and actually died. Hope recognized her well, she was far enough away that they didn't really come face to face, although we did talk to one of the gorilla keepers while we were there and kind of explained and you know, and he said, oh, if you go up there, you probably see her in that and we did. We did, but still it was enough. It was enough for Melissa to kind of have a little bit of closure in that relationship, which is nice.

And to this day she can't talk about Hope without you know, like weeping essentially, so eventually started tearing up. So these these enclosures, these zoos situations absolutely do perform a legitimate educational and I don't know, they definitely supply something for the public, you know, to appreciate the animals. Absolutely one hundred and ten percent, I think, but certainly so. I'm not so sure I'd be against necessarily the zoo side of things. Although wild captures into zoos, I don't

think that's cool. I think there's enough animals in the zoos now that we can probably do a breeding program. So they do mention that any There's a quote in here that they talk about the dignity of captive apes, and someone says, I find this very interesting. Is in my opinion that the mere fact that they are held captive and on show to the public takes away their dignity entirely. Yes and no, Yes and no. I think that's probably a gray area, which is why they're probably

asking for input into this particular law. But as a general concept, I am absolutely in agreement something like this needs to happen. It would be fantastic for not only the apes, but if they extended to cetaceans, and again, any law that increases compassion amongst human beings, I'm one hundred ten percent.

much undue stress is being caused by these conditions for this animal. And certainly we would all say, well, we don't want to inflict undue stress or unnecessary stress.

experience for the animals. And a lot of these animals wouldn't survive in the wild anyway. So yeah, there's some gray area in this law because education, clearly, education needs to happen. Just the fact that people say to me, you treat sasquatches like dumb apes, well, clearly that one statement alone screams that the American public and probably the world public needs to be better educated about apes, so there is some room for there's some gray area I

think in what could be done here. So yeah, that's my thoughts on it. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right back after these messages. Well, let's talk to the next article then.

chimpanzees are. I think chimps it kind of is like ninety eight point four percent of their DNA is the same as ours, but bonobos is ninety eight point seven according to this article. And people are saying, oh, that means we're almost well, relax, relax. I always like to point out we share something like sixty percent of our DNA with earthworms, right, and now, all that tells us is that all life on the planet is related. We all have some common ancestry back there, so everybody can

relax about that. Where I'm not saying that we're all apes, although we are. I say that all the time we are apes. Deal with it. So, yeah, Venobo's a our closest living relative in the animal kingdom anywhere else. Right, And what they're pointing out is that when other great apes have some sort of outside threat, what when most the apes do is they get together and they kind

of bond together. Which is a really important subject for right now, because you know that's what the politicians are doing, right, they're pointing at everybody else and whichever side. And I'm not going to be political about anything, but they're pointing to the other side and say, look at them so, And what that's doing is making that their team bond together.

You know that that's exactly what they're doing. If you don't think we're apes, man, turn on one of the news channels and take a look at what they're doing and how we as a species respond to it and what this is. But bonobos are a little bit different in some ways. And I think that bonobos are there's a lot of jokes about them and stuff, because they actually use sexual behavior to de escalate conflict within their society. You know that that sort of thing a.

too to the strict the effect. Contrast this with other species gorillas, orangutans, champanzees, gibbons, and humans, all of whom have been observed killing each other. But Nobos seem to have found a way to break this vicious pattern. It's not just because they don't commit lethal aggression today, but more importantly, they somehow stopped doing it millions of years ago. So there is something like markedly different about this great ape than the others.

pretty much what a lot of bigfooters are doing. You know, they're they're going into an area where these apes are living and doing their thing and you know, chilling and being apes, and then they play vocalizations from you know, unknown vocalization so that these the bonobos would know that they're not the same either same species or the same

same group of bonobos. And all it did is like they started they kind of hung out a little bit more, and they started being a little bit more social and stuff, as opposed to some of the other a species that would kind of like look for them and try to deal with the intruders and all that. Jazz I thought that was kind of interesting and I would love to see how a study, i mean, how impossible or next to impossible would that study be with sasquatches observing them

when people are vocalizing nearby, that'd be amazing. But kind of have to wonder how Sasquatches deal with that and if vocalizing is a threat to a Sasquatch, because I always approach the idea of broadcasting vocalizations for Sasquatches as just kind of basically trying to trick them into thinking that another one's in the area and seeing how they

react to it. But if I don't sound like the known members of their small little family group or whatever term you want to use for their groupings, yeah maybe I am like a threat to them. But also, I've heard so many stories over the years and this has never once happened to me. So I got to wonder because, you know, as I've mentioned on the podcast lots of times, I'm trying to question all of these givens that I've been told through the years of Sasquatch behaviors and oh,

they like this, they do this, and all this other stuff. Right, how do we know, Like, unless this happened to me and I've directly observed it, I'm kind of just not believing what other people say at this point, you know, because I've been learning a lot about Sasquatch this last few years. But I've been told over the years that's that sas if you vocalize, one will come to you. You know, they'll go, They'll go two miles just to get you. I don't know if that's true. It's never

really happened to me. But maybe that's what they're doing. If that is true to these particular researchers that have had that happen, Maybe that has happened, and maybe that's what they're doing. They're coming in to check out the threat or something like that. But if they're coming in alone, what does that say about their social grouping in that way? Are they like bonobos? Are they more like chimpanzees? I would way rather encounter in eight foot tall binobo than eight foot tall chimpanzee.

and you knew that it was there. Let's say that you got to hit from like a thermal drone, and so you know you're within one hundred yards of it and you vocalize and it just doesn't move, then you could make a certain kind of case. Otherwise, like we just have no idea. So it does seem like in certain times like well, maybe it just happened to be close already and decided to check out a novel sound. Maybe it did think it was another member of its

species and so it came to investigate. And if there's something aggressive that happens, people will say, oh, well, you know, it thought I was the alpha maol and so it come to run me off. But it's like, well, maybe it came and saw that it was a human, and it came to run off a human, you know, once it investigated the sound, and instead of finding one of its kind to which it might have responded, you know, neutrally or in a friendly way. It saw a human

there and then decided to be aggressive. Who knows, There's just no way of knowing, Like they will always do this in this context.

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