Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your fav It's so like, say subscribe and read it. I'm stuck and me wish today and listening, Oh watchy lim always keep its watching. And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay. Hello Cliff, Hello Bobo. How you doing. Man's going to do you? A little frustrating today, but nothing terrible, I guess, you know, small small problems. Uh, you know, it took too long at the bank, so I'm running late.
Sorry about that. And of course I come back to my office right and my poor old dog, she she apparently took it upon herself to relieve herself on some financial papers in my office. Are you kidding me? No, No, It's just that kind of day. Man. Sometimes things happen, you know. Then, and my dog's old, and you know, I you know, so she's getting pretty old at this point, and she's really aged a lot in the last like five months, it seems, honestly. But you know, I mean, I can't blame her. I feel the
same way about those financial papers. Nice, she didn't need them, Yeah, just like one one small hurdle after another just to make it here to talk to you, and I finally here, it's finally going, and it's worth it. It's worth it. So it's great to be talking to you, Bigfoot to beyond here today. And uh, Cliff having to being a former fifth grade teacher, do you expect me to believe your dog Pete on your homework? It wasn't p oh she dubbed on it. Oh yeah,
she squirted all over the things. Man, it was terrible. She's old, she's not feeling. Kind of a mix of one en, she kind of mixed constitution. Yeah yeah, I know. Yeah, so welcome listeners. It wasn't a number one, it wasn't a number two. It is a one and a half. You know, poor soach, I know, I know. Did you see her? She's looking old? Man had her for eleven, like ten or eleven years now ten years. She was an adult when I got her. Yeah, yeah, so anyway, yeah,
yeah, my poor dog. And you know what, we left her alone for a couple of days because Melissa and I went to Vegas to go see Dead and Company at the Sphere, which was absolutely ridiculous. It was absolutely phenomenal, spectacular. You know, I've seen a lot of cool things in my life. You know, I saw the solar eclipse back in what seventeen with you, Bobo. I've seen you know, I've been all over the world. I've seen some amazing things, just ridiculously amazing things in my life.
I'm truly blessed. And seeing Dead and Company at the Sphere was easily
one of the coolest things I've ever seen in my entire life. I didn't know how awesome that spirit thing was until I just saw some stuff about the were Dead playing there like two days ago, and I looked at it and I was like, wait, because I've seen things on the sphere, but I thought it was just like computer generated, Like they show like this sphere of it self and it's a building Las Vegas for people that I know, it's around building the Boss Vegas, Like all the walls are a screen in
the roof and everything like it's well, it's a round, so there's no walls and roof, it's all just the same surface, right, Yeah, Like you're sitting inside of a ball and at one side of the ball is the stage where the band's playing, and everywhere else like on the inside surface of this sphere, hence the name is an LED screen. You know. It was just absolutely fantastic, just it was, and it's super expensive.
But this was a, you know, an anniversary gift for Melissa and I. Our anniversary was a few weeks ago and we couldn't go then because our dog was sick then as well. So so she got better. We decided to go this past weekend. And it was an expensive ticket. You know, it's like, I guess concerts are just expensive now. I had no idea, you know, because I don't go to a lot of concerts anymore. But it was way worth it. It was worth every single penny.
Awesome I heard. It was just mind blowing, like you can't you can't you just there's no words as as you're gonna see it. Yeah, that's just it, you know. And Melissa took some videos and stuff. I was trying to remain in the moment and not do videos and stuff. And you know, I'm not posting anything on social media. I don't like social media. But yes, but man, it's just like the videos or words themselves just completely lack. They just fall short of the mark. There's no
way to describe it. I mean, a dead show anyway. I mean, I've never seen Dead Company until this. I've seen The Grateful Dead a bunch of times, but I hadn't been to any of the Dead offshoot bands, any of their concerts. I haven't seen these people since Jerry died in like ninety five. But man, it's an Every Grateful Dead concert is an
experience and to itself. But this was just ridiculous anyway. So yeah, this is going to be a topical episode a Bigfoot and Beyond, And of course we got over the greeting stuff because that's the most topical thing right now is I'm still coming down from a great weekend seeing the Dead and struggling through the Vegas part of it all. But I'm back home now. Everything's cool,
the weather's cooled down. You know, it's a lovely eighty something degrees here, which I totally dig as opposed to one hundred and eight or one hundred and seven at night. Screw that, man. Look forward to get into the woods this week a little bit. I have some plans to go tomorrow and maybe even the next day. Got a gig next weekend and a gig in Southeast Ohio in two more weeks, So back to the big foot
life. You know, that's what I do apparently. Yeah, I'm going up to meet the guys that you were just with, Alex and Petacov from small Town Marshers. I'm going out to meet him and like Kip and Lighterman, Kip Moral from the Glove Creek Project and Rowdy. I'm gonna go out there with them guys for a couple of days. And yeah, Alex is going to be their Pedacov And I guess you just shot with your thing up
there the Eight Canyon. Yeah. Yeah, he went up to Eight Canyon with Mark, Marcel and Eli and I think Shane Corson is there and Cindy's was out there. Yeah. So a bunch of people just got back from that trip. I hooked them all up with Ape Canyon commemorative coins because you know, this is one hundredth anniversary of the Eight Canyon events, and we made cool coins at the museum. Pick those up at an online shop if
you want. But I sent free coins with everybody who went up there so they can take some pictures at the mine and the cabin site and all that sort of stuff with the coins. And so I got a bunch of really cool pictures back from them. They just I talked to Alex a little bit yesterday. I was texting with him, and then Eli came by the shop and kind of filled me in on everything that was going on up in the
expedition there. It sounds like a lot of fun. And for a lot of those people it was their first time at the cabin or and you know, the mine obviously hadn't been exploited very often. But those all those young whipper snappers in their twenties were saying, my god, that's treacherous, is terrible. I'll probably never go back there. And I'd say, okay, it made me feel a little better after failing to get to the cabin site last year or voluntarily turning around. So this is a sketchy spot, man,
This a sketchy spot. But I did get a couple of pictures of the coins at the mine itself, which I think is pretty cool. I'll send those to PRU and you can both. Was on our on our membership page for our members. So that was neat. That was really neat. So those guys are back, safe and sound. They were up there on the one hundredth anniversary of the event so cool, really cool. Well, one thing is I think I'm gonna do expeditions, like public expeditions like people
sign up for. I'm looking. I think I'm going to try to book two maybe three for the throughout the rest of the year. But I'm still I'm still got a shout out to a book because there's so many fires kicking off and it's like, you know, in the next couple of months, like how much like what's going to be on fire? What's been burned out? It's it's hard to like, you know, like where are you gonna go this for su're going to have a fire? Besides the coast? Well,
you know, there's there's a big forest. I bet if you you know, when you go through the permitting process and you talk to six Rivers National Forests, you can always ask them like, hey, if fires do happen, what's my plan? B Can I can I go over to this location? You know, because there's plenty of spots out there. Well, it's going to do it on private property? Was it that giant property where you're going to put the trailer? Eventually? You know what that fell through?
The guy could They said they had all the paperwork and then he couldn't find the one piece of paper, that one thing you needed to prove that was the case. All right, Well, it sounds like your trailer's gonna end up in the river if you're not careful. No, it's I'm getting
it there. You got a place to put it, Okay. Well, anyway, you're probably wondering why we gathered you all here today, just because we are doing a topical episode here in Bigfoot and Beyond where we kind of go through various news items that either caught our eye or we think are pertinent to the Bigfoot field, or just of interest in general, you know, in our little corner of the world, this this Bigfoot corner of the world that we seem to occupy. So we have a number of articles here.
We'll be kind of addressing some of those and giving our thoughts and kind of just talking about those in general. And you know what, we've been hearing a lot of good feedback for these kinds of episodes. We call them Clobo episodes, where you know, Cliff and Bobo were together, and Clobo, of course is our power couple name, you know, like a bradje Alina sort of thing. So we get a lot of positive feedback about the Clobo episodes, whether it's the Q and A's that we do on a monthly basis
or these topical episodes that we do you know pretty often. We're not quite strict doing it once a month like we do the Q and A's, but we do these about once every month or two. And thank you very much for the feedback. We really do appreciate it. And we'll also be doing a member episode after this where I'm going to talk about the Blue Mountain expedition
that we did about two weeks ago. Great crazy things happen there. Looking forward to that, and we're also be taking some questions for our members that we do every single episode. If you would like to be a member of Bigfoot and Beyond, you do get some cool stuff for it. You get
an extra hour a week of original content. Bobo and I and Matt Prut get together and we talk for another whole hour after we record these regular episodes, and those are just for our members, and you also get these episodes right now ad free, like you know how they insert these ads. A computer inserts these ads based on where you live and what you're listening to,
and there's no inserted ads whatsoever in the special membership episode. So if you do become a member of Bigfoot and Beyond, you can do that for five bucks a month. The link is going to be in the show notes, and you get these these episodes ad free, and also you get an extra content. You get an extra hour of content every single week. If that sounds good to you, be a member, be one of us, Goba
gaba. Hey. Yeah, So anyway, let's jump into the articles here, Bobo, do you want to start us off or should I just go ahead and choose one? Pick one? We got some good ones, Yeah, got some good ones here. Now this one, I remember I sent
this in a couple of days ago. This hit the news because you know, I have bigfoot set up on my Google news feed or whatever, and so when something bigfooty comes up, I generally click it or whatever and see what's going on, usually as some sort of sighting, like that's news or
something. Sightings are not rare. They happen pretty frequently. I don't know why that makes the news, except for I guess out there for regular civilian folk, they don't realize that bigfoot reports happen more or less all the time somewhere. I mean, just this week, I've seen photographs of two prints, two sets of tracks, in two different states, two different parts of the country. I've heard stories of another sighting a tree push down for over
here in mountain of national forests. There's always stuff going on. You just have to be in the right place the right time, or have your antenna up. But yeah, this particular news item comes from the Internet, unfortunately, so but I grabbed it because of the ridiculous stuff that it reports. And this one, the title of it is man claims to have spoken to
Bigfoot and says the conversation filled him with doom. Huh. Okay, But first, my first criticism right away is this such garbage clickbait sort of titles. You know, So anyway, some dude in basically, what the deal is that some dude in I think it was Missouri. I think it was
Missouri claims to have spoken to a bigfoot. Okay. And of course we hear these things not all the time, because despite what the paranormal side of the fence thinks, the paranormal side of the fence, the paranormal reports are outliers. They are not common. And that's in by the number of reports we've got at the NABC. I think since we've opened we probably have received
eight hundred or more sided reports just in the last few years. And the paranormal stuff I can count on one hand, and I don't even know if I could fill up on my fingers, but I can count on one hand. So it's kind of like one of these situations where a very loud but yet very small population of people think something is true and they yell at a lot. So the paranormal stuff isn't quite as commons as I think the WU
folks like to think. I'll be more impressed when it's not like some hippy temming they say, live in peace, and you know, it's like it seems that they always say what people are thinking. It was like when that other well noted Bigfoot aficionado was saying that bigfn to hold the vote Trump. You know, it's like, I don't think they're making like political picks or whatever. They communicating these things that they seem to have express what these people
are thinking. My coincidence, Yeah, yeah, exactly, what a coincidence that that is, right, that the Bigfoot or aliens or angels or whatever, you're talking to inside your brain has the same political views of you as you or the same you know, emotional situation, or the same philosophical perspective as you do. Isn't that something I wonder? I wonder why that could be. Well, anyway, this guy, this guy called called this this
radio station k HMO. This guy from Missouri calls the station and said that he had an encounter with bigfoot right outside of his house. And what he said is that, like this guy says, we don't have to be afraid of each other and that we could just live in peace. And I told him I didn't want to hurt him, and I didn't want him to hurt me. Fair enough, right then check this out. Then the guy said, he hit me with the infra sound and it hit me hard. It
made me physically shudder. I don't know if there's a telepathic component to it or not, but what I felt is you could feel it go through your body. You didn't hear nothing. It was like anger, fear, hatred, and doom all rolled into one directly at you. Well, the thing that bothers me about this is that, how does I mean, do most civilians, for lack of a better term, are they even aware of infrasound?
Like you go up to somebody in the store and say, hey, hey, bay person buying you know a hershey bar at the store, what's infrasound? Do you think they're gonna be able to describe it to you? And do you think that they have any idea that sasquatches may or may not use that. Whoever this Missouri dude is, like, he clearly is tangent to the Bigfoot community in some sort of way, because how would he know
that? You know, So this isn't a normal sighting. This is somebody who is aware of the Bigfoot lore in some sort of way, which I think Matt Prowitz said this before. Maybe he wants to weigh in on this, which, in my opinion, I think gives a lot of way to those earlier sighting reports the stuff before all these hypotheticals were put out there because we don't know. I mean, I think sasquatches use in for sound, but we don't know that. There's no way two know that at this point
without recording show it. Right before the mythology of Bigfoot really got rolling and all these powers and traits were ascribed to the species. Those sightings do, in fact, in my opinion, have more weight nowadays because you know, this is like some you know, mainstream internet clickbait website and they're talking about infrasound with Bigfoot and I don't know about telepathy, but this happened, and
you know, doesn't that. I mean, what do you think? But what does that give more weight to these older reports that were pre mythology? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I would agree, Yeah, I think so. Mad do you want to weigh in on this? I know you're back there learning, But the earliest reports have them having those kind of abilities like the Native Americans, like almost almost all their tribes that they have for sure telepathy and possibly like uh, can travel as light, that sort
of stuff. Almost all. That's a pretty strong statement. I would be disagree with. You don't think that most obviously, Yeah, they all have like some component of that, most of most have a component of that tolepathy, for sure. I'm not I'm not convinced of that because I think that what we get on the being an outsider of those particular cultures is like a conglomeration of various things. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and
Bobo will be right back after these messages. From my experience speaking to individual Native people, there's a wide variety of perspectives on these things. Some like lots of Native people I've spoken to, Yeah, it's an animal, like all the other stuff. We have our stories about them, blah blah blah, and the other people, you know, just just like in every other community. I think other things about sasquaches. Oh, they're a protector of
the woods, or they are bad news. They're a bad omen, they're a good omen. There, they're this yor that they're it's all over the place. I very rarely hear about that sort of stuff. But then again, I am an outsider. Maybe I'm just not privity of the information. Yeah, there's different secres, but I'm saying that the most common one amongst them that I've heard for sure the majority of the people I've talked from those tribes, is telepathy, which I don't think is that out that far out
there. I know we've talked about this in other episodes that I've appeared on, but if you look at belief systems and attributes associated with certain animals around the world, you'll find those exact same attributes assigned to them, the same
supernatural or metaphysical powers or abilities. And I think the most likely explanation for that is that we have a hardwired cognitive, psychological, and physiological response to encountering animals of this sort, and it results in the involuntary freezing response for
one, which is called tonic immobility. So phenomenologically, yes, it is as if you know, once you meet the gaze of an animal like that, you are frozen in your tracks, and something like that gets encoded into these narratives about such animals, but the onus is always placed on the animal itself that you know, a tiger has the ability to paralyze you, or gorilla has this ability, or a bear has this ability, and on and on and on as you go around the world looking at belief systems associated with
other animals. So I think very often what people are describing is the normative response that's involuntary that they're falling victim to because they're powerless against it. But they're assuming that it's the animal that somehow does this to them without touching them from a distance. And so in the past it might have been that they had magical or mystical powers. In the more recent times it was it might
have been that they had psychokinesis or telepathic or telekinetic powers. And then when people get introduced to the idea of infrasound, they couch it under that particular umbrella that, oh, it paralyzed me by generating infrasound. But I think the most likely thing is that while not all these animals share physiology morphology, they're not genetically related. So what's the common denominator. It's the human observer
and the human response. And people are doing their best to describe in whatever language they have, through whatever interpretive lens they're equipped with, to describe that experience, and so to them, they blame the animal for it, rather than realizing that it's just a normative response. NERD makes sense to me. You're out numbered, bubs, two nerds and one one. No, I get what you're saying. I mean, that's that's all. I'm not saying.
What I'm not saying what you said is untrue. I'm just saying that, and I understand. I totally get that, like what I attribute to be infra sound stuff that hit like that coral. I mean, I think that was in forsound. That totally could have been like the infrasound can make you hear voices in your head, and so can like just total unmitigated horror and fear. I guess you know, I definitely was experienced all that at one time. Well, yeah, you know, I bring up this account
that we received in the museum when these conversations come up. Now. I don't think it was last summer. I think it was the summer before. A gentleman comes into the museum. He was solo hiking, and I think Glacier National Park or maybe the Tetons in that area, you know, And he comes around a corner, blind corner and boom, there it is ten feet ahead of him there is a grizzly bear, right, And I guess that's a serious situation when you're out solo hiking, right, spooking a bear
like that coming around the corner. And of course, he and the bear stare at each other for a minute, and then a voice in his head said you need to get out of here now. And of course, and are we left to think that the bear is telepathic and it put that English sentence in the guy's head or is that just the back of his own head
screaming at him you need to get out of here. Now. I think that there's also a lot of that going on with these big foot telepathic you know encounters, and also, you know, I also bring this story up, but I think I've said it before on the on the podcast here when we were in Australia talking to the Aboriginal people, the Native people of Australia, and I asked them, so, some people in North America report that, you know, bigfoots can put messages in your head at telepathic powers and
like that you know what you're thinking, they know what you're thinking, and you know what they're thinking and all this other stuff. And I asked them that the native people down there and say, hey, does that happen here with the yowis and I and the guy looked at me it kind of puzzled, and he said, well, I mean your dog can do that. And I thought, for a minute, yeah, I guess I do know when so she's hungry and what she's you know, when she needs to go
out, and all these other things. So I but still that's not telepathy. That's just you know, knowing the dog or whatever, But so anyway that I chose this particular I guess article mostly for an example of bad media,
a bad press about the bigfoot. You know, about the sasquatch phenomenon, and how things like this put all researchers kind of a bad light in a way advocating for the paranormal, but all researchers the subject in general in a bad light and does damage to the subject by driving the scientists away that we want to be involved in the subject. Now, I think it's very
clear that I don't think sasquatches are paranormal in any way whatsoever. But if they are paranormal in some way in any way, when we prove they're real, they will not be able to hide that from us. It's just one of the things we'll discover about them as we go along. We should not be leading with this paranormal stuff, and we should do our best to ignore or refute articles like this when they pop up, because this is not what we want. This is not the kind of press that our subject needs out
there, because we want scientists to be involved at least I do. I think anybody who wants to learn more about the subject or kind of you know, get to the end of this road, the discovery process, or you know, whatever you're up to in the Bigfoot land, unless you're just doing it to I don't know, have your own experience and share that with other people who want experiences, and that's it. But the rest of us want other people involved so we can learn more about these animals and what they do
and all that kind of stuff. We want scientists involved, and this kind of nonsense out in the press does damage to that cause. So keep that in mind. Whenever any of you, any of us, are talking, like any of our listeners are talking about sasquatch, sound sane, you know, sound normal, speak like sasquatches are perfectly normal animals, even if you suspect that they're not. Because when you're talking about Bigfoot, you probably know
a little bit more about Bigfoot than most citizens do. Present the subject like it's a rational subject worthy of investigation instead of some hohoha that you know, like with Oi gi boards and you know, reading chicken bones or whatever. You know, get that stuff away from the subject. It'll sort of everyone better. Yeah, It's like Joe Rogan had on two guys like one week or a week and a half that were just spouting out these they call them
theories, but basically nonsense to like you know, the science community. And it was it caused a big, like international uproar, Like you know, it's it's cool to hear other ideas and stuff, but having these guys on such a huge platform, and like the followers, like the accolytes they have just like rejecting real scientists for like pseudosciences. It kind of is like, you know, it's you see you see the damage it does. You see
it on social media. You see this social media where people are I heard I heard a podcast once and the person on the podcast was refuting this idea the Sasquatches have ape like feet, like flat, flexible feet. And this person had the gall to ask Meldrum, what makes your opinion there's a person on there. And then Meldrum was on the same podcast, and and Meldrum was saying, well, no, there's this blah blah blah, there's this evidence here, and the person had the gall to ask Meldrum, what makes
your opinion any more valuable than my own on this matter? And this person was like a food you know, like a service worker, like a food service worker I believe and Meltrum just like what he said, Well, because I've devoted the entirety of my professional life to this one subject, not Bigfoot, but the you know, the anatomy of the ape foot. And but people I see it online, I see it on Facebook all the time where people Meldrum doesn't know what he's talking about. The hell he doesn't know what
he's talking about. Like literally, he's devoted his entire professional career to the anatomy of the ape foot. He probably knows what he's talking about, and his opinion matters. And to like what you're saying, Bobo on this podcast thing, like to discount scientists and their opinions and their their professional opinions is ridiculous. In my opinions, it's insulting to them personally and anybody else who likes the idea of science. Because remember, science isn't like I know it,
you don't. Science is a way of thinking. It is a process of getting to the truth. And that's why scientists publish papers. They put a paper out and they say, hey, everybody, what do you think of this idea, here's my evidence. Tear it apart, go for it. Tear it apart and they do that's that's what science is. Here's my idea, here's my evidence, and what do you think about it? And then people can go in and nip nitpick and do things and kind of massage
these hypotheses into a theory. It sounds like this person on the podcast, if they came out with this theory about I think I caught some of that, like math, math is incorrect or some nonsense or whatever. Right, one plus one on one times one is two. Yeah, you know that's not that's not a theory. I think that's they don't even understand that much. A hypothesis is a general here's my guess, and if it stands up
to scrutiny for a while, then it becomes a theory. And then if you can sele it is something that is more of a law, you know, like we're talking about Newton's law or whatever. But yeah, we live in a very weird world where experts are suddenly not experts. If what they say doesn't agree with your own, usually uneducated opinion on the matter, it's aggravating, you know. It's it's like someone who's never looked into Bigfoot at
all tells me all these reasons why sasquatches could not possibly be real. It comes back to Reneda Hendon, who himself was not very educated, but very intelligent. Man. Renea Hendon said it best, man, without the facts, your opinion doesn't matter. That's the truest statement he ever made. It's one of them. Yeah, that's for sure. Anyway, he got me
all fired up. Man. Just bad media, bad media. But again, I wanted to wanted to put that in here because of the damage that these things do to us as individuals and the subject that we all love. And those are the articles to get up there the most, those crazy ones that are you know, just internet fodder, like just clickbait like that. Those I get asked about those more than anything real of course, of course. Yeah, that that's what people want. They want something easy and clickbaitable,
and I don't have to think too hard about it. And I can believe in magic. I can believe in magic instead of learning about what's behind it all. And you know magic, I mean everything's magic at some point until you learn what and actually what's going on, then suddenly it's science. It's not magic. You know, it's ridiculous. And man, I played dungeons and dragons. Man, if anybody wants magic to be real, it's
me now, mind you, Miraculous things do happen. I've had amazing things in my life that are very hard to explain, but nothing with animals. You know, I've never seen a bear disappear into a portal. You know. No elk has come around the corner and told me a mathematical solution to you know, some theorem that just doesn't happen. Man, But people like to believe that, and people love to explain one unknown with another, but
it does not get us anywhere. Stop doing it. Yeah, so honest say, like I mean, I think all the research that all the researches just going to three D like observable scientific method and then if that other stuff's real will come out. Yeah, yeah, start there. You know. An analogy is like if you're if you're trying to pick up on somebody in a bar, you don't start with i've got a foot fetish, Yeah tell the first. Yeah, you don't. You don't start with your your your
more eccentric personality traits. You know, you just don't do that unless you're wording on your sleeve. Yeah, I guess if you do start with your more your your your more oblique personality traits or preferences, and they latch onto you, you know you found the right person, right, so as you're looking for I suppose so, I suppose, So stay tuned for more Bigfoot
and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. Well, Bobo, you want to choose the next article, sure, let's see. I like this one. Uh Ranting is using leaves from climbing vine for actually inflammatory pain relieving properties. That's a I mean, we figured they did, you know, they must, but they now proven that they do specifically use that leave for that exit and they put it in. They also use SAP and these to treat open cuts, which is pretty awesome. Yeah.
Of course, you know, most people probably don't realize this in our modern age, but you know, pretty much all I'm going to say all but I probably is I'm probably not quite correct, but I'll say it anyway. All medicines come from plants at some point or another, or you know, they tear apart a plant, find out what that compound is inside the plant,
and then they replicate it inside a laboratory. You know, that's basically the foundation of all medicinal sort of science in a way, herbology, because plants have medicinal properties, and you know, humans are part of the natural world. We forget that sometimes that we are part of the natural world. We're not over seedars of everything else. We are actually interwoven with the fabric
of everything else. We live on the planet with everything else, and we you know, go back ten thousand years, we go back to one hundred years, we were using plant medicines all the time, and we've kind of divorced ourselves from that in some sort of way because the birth of modern medicine and science in chemistry and all that sort of stuff. So we go into the plant, we get the actual compound out, we replicate it an a
laboratory, we mass produce it and sell it for wildly inflated prices. Essentially, that's you know, the way of things nowadays. But you go back far enough, and pretty much all of these compounds have a source in plants at some point, and so it makes sense that orangutans and all ape species would be doing it, which I think is one of the interesting things about
examining closely what sasquatches are observed eating. I know that they've been seen in willow thickets, and if I remember correctly, willows are a source of not only vitamin C, which would be a pretty rare sort of thing in the woods, I would imagine, but also I believe that aspirin comes from the
bark of willows if I remember correctly. I could be wrong about that, but that's what I seem to remember, and you know, so a useful thing would be to perhaps do a survey of medicinal wild native plants in your
area and examine the reports are sasquatch is seen eating that plant? And then, of course most people don't aren't familiar with plants, because that's one of the consequences of us of civilization, of human beings domesticating themselves, is that we've kind of divorced ourselves from the knowledge of the local plants and really animals too in a certain area. But it's an area worthy of study, and
that's kind of brings back to another point about how sasquatches. The study of sasquatches is very, very multidisciplinary, and I think that's one of the cool things about this subject is that no matter what you are into, there's probably a niche in this field that you could occupy, you know, whether if maybe you're a botanist and right at the aluet what we're talking about here, and a botanist can address the kinds of things that sasquatches are seen eating,
and maybe there's some sort of medicinal use for them that would be drawing the sasquatches in to eat those particular plants, you know. Or heck, if you're a geologist, I know that one scientist was looking at sasquatch reports and their prevalence in areas with high mineral content in the ground. That's right up a geologists you know, sleeve, so to speak, that they would love to look into something like that. You know. So, no matter what
you're into, the Bigfoot subject has something for you. Now, look at fox glove is a very very common plant here in the Pacific Northwest. I mean, I can't keep it out of my gardens. Might just let it grow. It's a beautiful plant. It's a lovely, towering sort of flower. But the plant itself is the source of a lot of heart medicines, it turns out, you know, like so if somebody has a congestive heart failure or whatever, the kind of drugs that they would be given by a
doctor. Their source is in Digitalis, which is a fox club. Of course, it's a poisonous plant as well, so you kind of have to know what you're doing. And another great example of a medicinal plant that is very common throughout the entire Pacific Northwest is Devil's Club. Now I don't but you don't know if there's Devil's Club in other parts of the country, or prove it you're back there somewhere. Does Devil's Club live in Tennessee or is
it is a Pacific Northwest thing. I've only ever encountered it in the Pacific Northwest. I haven't seen it in any other part of the country. Well. Yeah, it's a kind of a nasty plant. I mean, it's a really useful plant. I mean, it has fibers in it that the native people use for baskets. It's but it is covered covered with spiky, nasty thorn hoors, you know, and like the stems of this plant are about as thick as your thumb. They grow between maybe three and six or
seven feet tall. They usually grow in like Riparian environments sit right next to rivers where it's very very moist, but the entire stem is just covered with the nastiest thorns you could even you can never imagine. And also the leaves themselves are covered with thorns. It's it's rare to find a plant where the leaves themselves are also terrible as well as the stem. And it's actually reflected in the Latin name, the genus and species name taxonomic name of the planet
itself. I'm looking at it right now. It's opala plane x horridese horrids as like horrid. It's terrible, but it's also very very useful, very useful. It's used for rheumatism and stomach trouble. You can get you can get rid of lice and dandriff with it. It's good for boils and infections. So if you did see a sasquatch in a field of these things, I don't think that I would suspect sasquatches would mind the thorns too much.
It be like a backscratcher to them probably, And they're eating this stuff. Well, then maybe then you have yourself an interesting hypothesis. You know, why is the sasquatch eating. This would be a good question to ask, and then you can say, well, maybe it's sick, maybe it has an affection, maybe this, maybe that, and all these sort of things would give us just a little bit of insight in the way sasquatches live,
especially if there is some sort of way to verify that. Like if you saw a sasquatch with a wound, for example, in a devil's club thicket or something like that, and it was tearing it off and putting it on like they saw this orangutan in the article, that would be pretty cool.
That would be really neat, And we should expect that at some point, after sasquatches can be studied in their natural environment doing what they naturally do, we should expect to find this sort of behavior wherever they are in the convent, using the local native plants to their own benefit. You know, I
got to wonder, now, where did the orangutan learn this behavior? Well, I said, they've never seen it done by any other orangutan like that, because it was putting on the liquid of it, it was spitting, it was chewing the leaves and then spitting it out of us, then swallowing the leaves and then after a while it choots something to quit and they would take the whole chewed up leaf and pack it in the wound itself. After you put all this the juicy chewed u about initially that he packed it with
the leaf matter. Well, you know, in other ape species are known to do this sort of thing as well, because I think we did talk about something like this a few years ago, but I think it was a chimpanzees being seen eating and using medicinal plants. And again, you know, they're apes, they're smart. They do that. We're apes, We're smart, we do that. It makes perfect sense that sasquatches would probably do this same sort of stuff too, especially with the bounty of medicinal plants here in
the in on our content in it. You know, yeah, I heard a theory one time, or an idea that early Native people, you know, think about like, you know, fifteen twenty thirty thousand years ago, and the very very first humans were making their way to North America and to this brand new continent where everything is kind of peculiar, Like obviously there were redwoods here. There are redwoods over in Asia at the same latitude. There's
probably some similarities. You know. That's one of the things I noticed traveling with finding Bigfoot is that everywhere we went that there were sasquatches. Most places had ferns, you know, most places had rhododendrons or something just like them. The similarities were very interesting to me. So as people, you know, made their way slowly over generations onto this continent, they probably were kind of picking up like, well, we ate those before we could eat those
here. And because this migration didn't happen in one generation, it happened over many, many generations of humans coming to North America. But I've heard a theory that people learned what they could eat by watching the other animals, watching grizzly bears or bears in general, doing the black bears, maybe doing what they do, and then trying those food items out, because you know,
it's a scary thing trying a new food item out. You know, there are mushrooms here in the Pacific Northwest that if you eat them, everything seems fine until five to seven days later when your liver shuts down and you die. You know, eating new food items is a treacherous gamble, I think. But as one moves into a new area, if you look at what the other animals that are kind of similar to you in some ways, like bears and stuff, what they're eating, then you have a head start on
that. Perhaps, you know, so maybe that's how ape species including humans, learned new medicinal treatments for whatever ails them. But I don't know. I'm just kind of hypothesizing right now, So not theorizing, hypothesizing as correct, just kind of thinking, kind of thinking out loud, which is what this podcast is all about. And sometimes, you know, we got another orangutang article the nest building. Yeah, yeah, there is another orangutan article.
It's right here. It's called Somatrin. Orangutans start crafting their engineering skills as infants. The baby primates start early on nest building techniques, a craft that takes years to hone. Yeah, this is an interesting article to me because you know, I've been privileged enough to see the actual nests at the Olympic Project site. In both locations, there's two nest sites, if you
want to call them that. Now. The first, the first nest site isn't that's probably not the best words for it, actually, because there's actually over twenty nests about over maybe a half mile or so stretch of ridge. So the entire ridge is kind of referred to as the first nest site, and the second nest site, to my knowledge, only has a nest. There's only one nests on that second ridge that they've found so far. If I'm correct, and I could be wrong about that, We should probably have
Shane or somebody back on the podcast for some updates at some point. I think it'd be fun. But the first nest site, once they started looking for examples that matched what they were observing. When I say they the Olympic Project guys, you know, and the guys and gals at the Olympic Project, when they started looking online for things that looked like what they had found in the woods, the best match by far was gorillaests. Gorillas, of
course, are mostly terrestrial animals. They don't really go in trees a whole lot, especially as they grow older and larger. They're pretty much terrestrial animals for the most part, especially mountain gorillas the largest of the gorillas. There's you know, a couple probably subspecies of gorillas, but there's the two main categories are lowland gorillas, which are the ones that you've always seen in zoos.
And there's also mountain gorillas, which are very rare. I think there's less than there's about three hundred of them in the world, or so approximately maybe four hundred if we're lucky. They're larger than lowland gorillas, and for some reason they die in captivity. I've always found that to be interesting. But you've never seen a mountain gorilla in captivity because they die. Kind of
wonder if a sasquatch would do that the same thing. But when the Olympic Project was looking at these nests of gorillas, one of the things they found was a peculiar sort of nest up in a bush, up in a bush like off the ground. The rest of these purported sasquatch nests are actually on the ground, but there was a nest like structure inside a bush a few
feet off the ground. And by studying gorilla nests, what the Olympic Projects stumbled upon was that gorillas teach their young to make nests in trees and shrubs off the ground, just a few feet off the ground sometimes, or maybe up on a tree a little bit more. Could that be what the Olympic Project found at the first nest site. I think so. I think so too, And as evidence to support my hypothesis, we have to come back
to Lori. Joe Hamilton, a good friend of mine, great researcher, one of these quiet people, totally off the radar, Very few people know about her. She had been working the area for sasquatch footprints for years before the nest site was discovered. Now it's kind of funny because Laurie doesn't know where the nest site is even to this day, and the Olympic Project folks didn't know anything about Lori until I made the connection between the two groups.
Laurie had been finding sasquatch footprints around that general area of the nest site, with a few miles here, east, west, north, south, all that stuff for years before the Olympic Project stumbled across these nests. Then, of course, the nests were are on private land, so Laurie would have no access to the area and all that other stuff. But some of the footprint casts that Laurie had discovered previous to the discovery of the nests are juvenile
prints. She gave me the Originals. I have the Originals in my collection. They're about seven eight inches long, probably the same animal. I have two casts of these two casts from the general area, so we know that juvenile sasquatches are in the area of these nests. And the fact that the Olympic Project found nests off the ground in the same sort of style that gorillas teach their juveniles when they're teaching them the skills to make nests. I think
that's really cool. I think that's really really cool. And I also think that this is an interesting trail of clues to follow when you're trying to hone in, like trying to close in on a hypothesis of some sort. You know, we can now I think safely hypothesize that sasquatches teach their young to make nests in the same manner as gorillas, because it's a sound idea and there's actually evidence from nearby to support that this might be going on. I
think that's great. It's a much safer way to approach this. Then bigfoots made these nests and there's juveniles, and this is why, Well, that might be true, but it's it's careful the language we use when we're talking about sasquatches. We want to appear sane, even if it's challenging stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right back after these messages. The orangutans they started, they said, start building it. Six
months they practiced like and they're terrible at it. But by the time there are three or four that are building up to twenty nests a day. Practicing. It's their main thing they do to like, you know, keep themselves busy when they're when they're young, but still stick with they're not weaned yet, Like that's one of their main activities besides of play is building nests and
they build them above it's the four five. They can build pretty decent ones that they'll so they build them above the mother's nests in case because there takes years and years to make us structurally sound one and uh so they'll build it a build the mother's nests. Uff it does collapse, they just follow, you know, a few feet they're on they're on the mother's nest. You
know. This article talks a little bit about after they they've kind of got the foundations of nest building, uh you know down they start building in comfort features, which I think is kind of cool as well, you know, like roofs, or like soft things or blankets and that kind of thing. The blankets made not not real blankets, of course, but blankets made out
of foliage, but of plants and leaves and that sort of stuff. Now, having seen the Olympic Project nests, I can't really say that there are any comfort features in them, except the second nest site might be an exception, and I've talked about that before in the podcast. How I believe that the sasquatch was repurposing a bare den for its own purpose, because it was
like a little heidi hole cave thing under a log. And of course we've also spoken to people on this podcasts who had seen sasquatches running out of their hiding places inside big hollow logs and that sort of stuff. So maybe that's the idea of a creature comfort. I guess for these creatures is some sort
of a roof or whatever, but I don't really know. I don't really know because the nest sites so far are I wouldn't say singular, but I will say that they're extraordinarily rare, and I can see why, having seen the nests, they would easily be either missed or ignored as maybe a bear den or something like that, if it wasn't for those rocks that were found adjacent to one of the nests that had clearly been struck together because of the
scoring on there, or the Sasquatch footprints that were found literally underneath the nesting material, indicating that they were deposited there in the substrate before the nesting material was piled upon it. So yeah, but I could easily say you would never even notice these things, And luckily the timber cruiser who found them recognized that they were unusual and reported them to Derek Randalls. This is it for a ring of towns for now. Well for now, we'll be back,
I'm sure. Yeah. Oh you know when I thought I sent in, but I didn't. I wanted to send in that one about the update on the tours on the on the clunder earlier. So using your voice, your narration for the Bigfoot tour I saw, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, the Spirit Boat tours. I helped them a couple of years ago before COVID to develop a Bigfoot tour on the Columbia River where basically you go down downtown.
You know where amsy is right, The Oregon Museum of Science and Industry it's downtown on the Willamette River. Their their offices are right next door to Amsy and you can go and you can hop on a boat there and it's cool. Say this this really fast jet boat. It's pretty cool, man. And I think the tour is running in the same sort of way. I don't think they shortened it or lengthened it or anything like that. So you hop on the boat there, and you have these Bluetooth headphones that you
put on and then you hear my voice because I did the narration. I supplied all the contents, I supply the artifacts, I supplied everything with this tour. And you hop on the boat there, and I mean, it's a great boat, right anyway, you know, there's so much stuff to see, like in downtown Portland from the river. And when you give back, so they drive up the wa or drive down the Willamette River to the confluence where it flows into the Columbia River, and then they hang a right
and they go upstream all the way to Cascade Locks. I think. So it's kind of a run, man. But you're on this rad boat that goes really fast, and you have these headphones on and at various points on
the tour. You hear me my voice talking about the various points of interest in the area, you know, like I go over the Abe Canyon event, for example, or I go over some of the siding reports around Beacon Rock from back in the day that led to the passage of the law in this Camania County that made it illegal issued sasquatches, or you know, just points of interest, both Bigfoot centric as also and also just a normal tourism
stuff that a lot of people are interested in. So yeah, that tour is up and running again, and it's gonna be running I think until September. It's not directly associated with the museum or anything, but I will say I like it. It's cool. I've been on the tour myself. I got to go out with you know, on the maiden voyage so to speak. It ran last year too, but at some point or another, the boat ran into a little bit of engine trouble, so they had to stop
it a few weeks early. But apparently it's a brand new engine in the boat. They redid the whole thing and it's up and running and super cool. A lot of people have been coming into the museum saying that they did visit that or were going to, and the reviews are are pretty pretty good, man, So it's something to be proud of. So if you want to spend a day on a river, which is a good idea because it's
you know, it's pretty hot up here being summer and all. But if you want to spend a day on a river and go check out some beautiful sites, see the waterfalls all up and down the Columbia River from the water itself, and learn a little bit about about the Bigfoot history and lore of the area directly from me, it's a great way to spend a day. Man. I wanted to ask you because they have a big Foot tour guide that goes off of what you say. I guess, like for follow up
stuff, did you like give like advise them at all? For those guys the docents, I guess they are or something like no, no, no, I don't know who they have. It's probably they probably have a variety a small number of people that do that sort of thing. But the docin is important because also on this tour, besides just wearing earphones and listening to
my voice telling you stuff, I supplied a bunch of reality. I supplied a bunch of footprint casts, and I supplied some pheromone chips and that sort of thing so people can look and feel and touch and smell various items, because I think, Bobo, you know how it is with you see a footprint cast in a book and then you see the footprint cast in person. It's a different experience. I hear people say it in the museum all the time, like I've only seen pictures of these things. They look so different
in real life. It has a whole other dimension. It really does, it really does. So I remember part of the I remember speaking about how the Sasquatch foot is different than the human foot in various ways, in the midfoot flexibility and all that sort of jazz. And I remember I supplied Freeman cast from nineteen ninety one from the Mill Creek Road incident there that has a beautiful mid tarsal pressure ridge in it. Or I think I even gave him a copy of the Patterson stuff. I'm not sure. I had to go
back and check that, but yeah, so, I don't know. It's a good tour. It's a good tour. It's a lot of fun. It's on the water. Portland's a beautiful town. Yeah, so I would recommend that if you're coming to the Pacific Northwest, you know, either right before or right after you come to the North American Bigfoot Center, go on that tour. It's pretty cool. I've done it, I liked it,
I'd do it. So I'm glad that's speaking the news out there. I know that the Spirit boat tours came by a couple of weeks ago and dropped off some flyers at the museum. Well, you know, Bob, but we have a number of articles here that we didn't even get to. There's one about full sequences of various ape species like chromosomes. What light that has upon us, you know, because one of the main reasons we study great apes in general, and I would say this is included including Sasquatch, is
to learn a little bit about ourselves and our brethren. There's another one about a new great ape species discovered in the fossil record, a very small one twenty two pounds or so or something like that. We had a couple other articles that we're not just not going to have time to get to because we
need to get off the line here and jump onto our members section. Our members section today or this week, I guess for you listeners out there, we're going to be talking about the Blue Mountain expedition that I did about a week and a half two weeks ago, and we're going to take some of the questions from our members. So if you want to become a member, click that show note thing that Matt pro puts down there every single episode, and come and join us. Come join us in the Beyond Bigfoot and Beyond
section. Yep, that's right, folks, join us in the Beyond big Foot and Beyond. But thank you for joining us in Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We appreciate it. And until next week, y'all keep it squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on
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