Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so like say subscribe and rade it star and me grates on Quesh today listening, oh watching, Lim always keep it's watching And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Boobo Fay, Hello, Bobo? How you doing? Man? Okay? What's going on? Cliff? All sorts of stuff as usual? You know me, Man, I don't sit still very long. I've I've got lots to tell you about. But anything else? Anything you want to
start with? Or should I just jump into my crazy life here? Jump in my last pretty pretty static lately? Really? Okay? Well, well I want to start that I tell you about my new favorite word. No, oh my god, I stumbled upon my new favorite word, and this this is my favorite in several ways. You know, I'm a word nerd in general. I love words. They're fun to play with. Some of my previous favorite words have been things like gazebo, spatula, you know,
like it's fun sounding words. But this word hit me everywhere I wanted it, man, everywhere I wanted to be hit. It smacked me good because number one, it sounds great and number two. It's actually something I absolutely love this word. I'll give you the definition first. The definition of this word is to stay in bed longer than you should, even though you should be up, because but you're staying in bed because it's warm and cozy. Right, Yeah, that's what this word means. It's from it's from I
guess this is a Scottish word. It's a verb, and the word is to herkle durkle no way, Yeah, I am a hirkle durkler like I am a lifelong hirkle durkler. I love me some hirkle durklin. I know. So that's I mean, that's one of the highest points of my week. And by the way, I cast Prince this week and that is still one of the highest points of my let's hear about the France. Oh but no, you don't't to talk about hurkle dierklin anymore. You'd work it,
just work it into the whatever possible. Oh totally, I've got to totally be work workled girkle in this and then everywhere. Man. Yeah, so yeah, herkle dirklin. I did it this morning. I plan to do it tomorrow. I just cannot get enough of that word. I'm just so thrilled about it. But I guess onto more pertinent things, more big footy things. So I don't remember if I spoke to you about this last time.
But I was out at a regular spot this like in the last couple of weeks, and I'm driving back from I forget where I was out doing big foot up at some point, and I was in my car alone. So I must be one of these. I go alone a lot. And by the way, for our listeners and whatever, and even for you, bobo, I don't find stuff every time I go. I just tell you about this stuff I find when it happens I go. I think, this week alone, I've been out there three times, you know, this week
alone, this past week. I'm out there kind of a lot, you know. And you consider, like once or two a month, I hit gold and I find prints, and I'm going to like between one and three times a week sometimes, you know, you do the maths. I'm not finding this stuff every time, So everybody can calm down and all the skeptists can stop throwing rocks and all this other stuff. I'm right now, I'm bat and I think about twenty thirty percent, which is really good. That's
good. Yeah. I mean, I'm not a sports guy, as I think most people know, but seems to me that's pretty good at batting average. I don't know. But anyway, so I'm driving back from I forget where, alone in my car, and and oh, I remember, yeah, this is when I was stripping back after dropping Melissa off at the airport. She just got back from storm chasing of all things. She's back now and she had a wonderful time, saw herself some tornadoes, and I said,
what when you were gone? I found I planted some tomatoes, as that count. But anyway, I'm driving back. I went. I dropped her off at the at the airport, like at three in the morning or something, you know, because she had a five am flight, you know, And for me that means leaving the house at two to be at the airport by three, which I got to wake up at one, which is a crazy time to wake up because I sometimes don't go to bed till two
am. Right that maybe I get negative one hour sleep and that's exhausting. But anyway, so I dropped her off at the airport, I went straight to the woods. I wanted to catch the morning shift, you know, because I'm never up at that hour because I'm a herkle Durkler. I might be laying in bed at that hour, but I'm not up by any means. I'm probably busy herkle durkling. So anyway, I drive straight to the woods and I start walking these roads early in the morning. I do find
an old print and I cast it, which was cool. It was pretty old, though, and I think I hit two other roads for nothing, didn't find anything at all. And by then it's like eleven thirty, you know, so I'd been out there for seven hours or something, eight hours, and so I'm driving back on this long stretch and this then a tree
break on the left hand side catches my attention. I don't know what it was about it, because there's a lot of broken trees that ezer are on most roads, right because they take a brushog on the end of one of these machine things and just and just cut away push back the rainforest, you know. So something about this one caught my eye and I said, I stop, and I go, yeah, okay, I'll back up and take a look. I back up the thirty forty feet that it took me to
stop or whatever. And I'm looking at this thing in the car, right, and at about eight or nine feet up it's broken. I'd probably like an eight or ten feet up it's broken. And then above the ground, like where the top of the tree was, you know, it's broken again. So that part's pointing up. They go, well, that's odd, you know, and It's like, well, that deserves a closer look. I mean, sure it could have broken twice, no big deal, like
maybe the tippy top broke and then the regular thing broke with snowload. If I'm looking around, there's nothing else there that would give me indication at all that is snowload. Right, And then I look closely and like these side branches coming out, two or three of them, like these little tiny like they're probably one centimeter or something like that in diameter. They go out and then immediately are curved back around and then shove between other branches, like two
or three of these things. And I'm thinking that looks a lot like that weird tree break that they've found not three miles away, you know, back in December that I think our listeners, at at least a certainly our members have seen pictures of isn't that right, prude? Our members have pictures of this stuff. Yes, we posted quite a bit of that for the Patreon members there. Okay, very good. Well I'll get you some pictures of
this thing too to post for the Patreon members for them. Of course, if you want to be a members five bucks a month, you get an extra hour and you also get this episode with zero commercials. Anyway, there's that. So anyway, I said, well, that's interesting. You know, I got it. Then I knew I was going to be out later in the week with the rest of the team here at the museum, So we went out. We hit one of the spots in this general area that
we nicknamed I think I told you about at the Outer Rim. But on the way out there, we passed this tree. So we all got out of the car and say, hey, check this thing out. Trip out on this and Nico, a train tracker by the way, found a footprint really closed, like five or eight feet away from it, and I thinking, crap, how did I miss that? That sucks? I mean, but Nico's a train tracker. We's better at this stuff than I am.
And I said, well, look at that it's a really decent print, and we start tracking it and I find that there's about four three or four or five others of these before I just lose the trail off in the woods. It's like, oh, shoot, not only a track, we have a track way, which is really interesting. That's cool, And I say, I got to remember to come back here and cast these things, right,
So that's what I did this past week. So Keith and I went out and we went to the spot and then said, Keith, look at I'm going to cast this print next to the tree, you know, and whatever else. And we decided, well, you know, let's go look at the other side of the road, because this is right on the road right. Start pushing off and start fanning out, and about fifty yards into
the tree line, I run across a segmented trackway. I found two or three of these things go in one direction and then one going the other. And it's a very small area and it seems to be a size that I recognize, about eleven and a half twelve inches. And then he and I spend the next hour or two or more really combing that area. I came back with fore casts. All of them are crappy. I mean, you can barely see anything in any of these except for one of them. One
of them is actually pretty decent. You can see the general shape of the foot, a nice big toe and stuff like that. But once again, I got a handprint out of this area, no way. I mean, the cast sucks the cat because it was underground and you know, and I guess some rodents or something where, like, some burrowing animals were nearby, so when I poured the plaster in, like it went into some of the fingerprints and then you know, filled up their burrows essentially. But it was
a really interesting situation because tracking the animal. We tracked it. I mean I'm not a great tracker, you know, I want to emphasize that again, but I follow it for like fifteen feet twenty feet, then we lose it for fifty or one hundred feet, and then we pick it up again somewhere else. You know, it takes a long time to figure out where it's going because I don't find these tracks consecutively, but we do pick up little segments of the trackway. But near as I can figure it was going
from rotten stump to rotten stump and then digging in the rotten stumps. And I'm saying that because I found next to rotten stumps that had fresh tears, and in a couple of them you can actually see scratch marks of four or five fingers at a time with no claws, and they were spread apart,
much wider than a bears could be. So pretty pretty great week. You know, between this trackway that that that is tied directly to a weird tree break, with this interweaving sort of nonsense in it, it's that nonsense. Well, well, clearly not, It's what I'm saying. That's my point here, you know, like I don't think these things are horses, are weaving horse manes or any of that stuff. I think that's all nonsense.
Bob Gimblin even told me himself, and I'm Bob Gimblin is clearly rather experienced in horses that all that stuff is probably pretty much just you know, wind braids, you know, from horses in the window. Yeah. Yeah, but these things are just very weird and very unusual. And so I have a one to one correlation between these weird tree break things and sasquatch footprints, which is encouraging. And then just a short distance away foraging sign, you
know, and of course obvious. I think that one can guess and assume that sasquatches break apart rotten stumps stuff because bears do it, right, that that's a I think it's a pretty safe assumption, but it is still an assumption until you find evidence thereof And I think, you know, and I found places where sasquatch tracks have been found, with logs moved aside and that sort of stuff. But this is the first time that I found direct correlation
between breaking apart stumps and finger marks and stumps and the sasquatch tracks. So again, just slowly piecing together the puzzle that is laid out before us, and then whenever I make any progress on that at all, it's a thrilling week. And then you add on top of that the Herkle Dirkle thing. It's been outstanding as it is. Yeah, I don't I mean, I don't know what could have been better, really, you know? So anyway, that's that's the story of my week. Hmm. Tops of mind.
Oh okay, well all right, well, well you know what this will make you feel better today is a Q and a episode to hear a big Thing and Beyond, where we take questions from our listeners. We do this about once a month, although if you're a member, we kind of do it almost every week because whenever they're a question comes from a member, we want to get to it as soon as possible. But once a month we
answer questions from our regular listeners. Our regular listeners out there and listener land where everybody seems to live and so our squash couteers can submit questions to us once a month, either via email or via voicemail. If you go to our website, Big Thing to Be on podcast dot com and hit the contact button, there's an option to leave a voicemail, and we really love the voicemails. There are a lot of fun. We get to hear your actual voice and you get to talk to us, so you get to hear your
voice in the air. Maybe that's something you want to do. But if you're shy, I get it introverted like I am, that's fine too. Go ahead and type us a question and we will get to it. We do this once a month. But why don't we go ahead and jump into that bobo that'll make you feel better, kind of give you more exciting week. Sure. Well all right, so mister Matt Prue, why don't you lay the first away smail upon us? Please? Hey, guys, Mike
here, I hope you guys are all doing well. Love listening to podcasts as always, guys, So rewatching some old episodes of Monster Quests. They always talk about, you know, they put pheromone chips out there trying to lure in a bigfoot or you know, something like that, and anytimes I've ever seen them use it, I've never seen them actually like be successful.
Do you guys personally feel that pheromone ships work on bringing them closer? I mean, I know they smell terrible, and they got good sense of smells and they'd be able to smell them from a good distance, But I want to know they actually do work. I feel like I never hear about them anymore. I feel like only back in the early two thousands. All right, that's my question. Hope you guys have a good day. Keep a
squatchy, Love you guys. Michael Maddener first fan. But anyways, yeah, I had a jar of them back in the mid two thousands or so early two thousands. Yea, it was early two thousands because I know in two thousand and one or two thousand and two, I think it was two thousand and one that doctor Bamernet gave us some gave John Fredis more than I got some more, and we had them up. We went up on the we were on the go road up to Bluff Creek, and John put him
out along the road like every few hundred yards. We put him out, and we put a couple around our camp. I thought we should have put them all and where they were inside of us, like, you know, nothing could just come up. And I didn't want them to figure out what it was, you know, I didn't want them to, you know, find a chip and then for people. I know, those things were plastic chips, like a not much bigger than like a poker chip or something,
but they the smell was just incredibly strong. It was just overpowering, make you wretch. And we had those out and I was laying in the in the back of the bed of my truck and I had a shell on it, my little Toyota, and this thing came walking. I could hear it come down the road and I heard some snaps coming down the road and like tree branches and the road was dirt on both sides of the road like dirt, and bankers went up like forty five degree angles. It was kind of
a steep sided embankment about fifteen feet up. John had tied him into these little trees that the foresters had planted to stabilize the rock slides there and stuff, and they were, you know, maybe three four feet little gnarled things, and so they were tired noose and I heard those I heard some snapping, and then it, uh it walked and I heard it like these big, long, heavy footfalls coming down the road, and I got so I think it I think it was I don't know if it was in for sounding
us or if it was just I just got scared, like more than I'd ever been scared before. And I remember as it came up, I just saw this black mass like it was just black, just all black, so outside of the truck window, and I couldn't see the shape or anything. It was just black. And I just pulled a sleep bag over my head
and held my breath. I tried to like not. I thought I was just going to rip the truck open and drag me out or something, and then it just it never stopped, just walked by my truck about two feet f like within two feet of it. I was parked on the edge of the road. We were in a pull out, and it walked past the truck and then it turned down and it went down this almost a cliff face. It was so steep. I had to have a rope to go down
to the tree. And then as it was going, as it went down the hill, I heard the loudest snap tree break I ever heard in my life. And it snapped at eleven inch hardwood, like sixty foot tree or fifty foot tree whatever, I mean, I don't know what it was. It was big, and maybe it was forty feet, yeah, it was
probably thirty five forty. But it snapped it and it went down and fell down the hill, down the embankment, because it's like a you know, it goes down for several hundred feet, just really super steep, like you'd have to have rope, and it just went down and just that was it. But we went back in the morning and looked around where those pheromont tips were toasched to the trees. Those whole trees were snapped torn off, and
the the pheromoneships were gone. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right back after these messages. If nothing else at all, those things are very strong smelling, and it kind of goes back to my general idea about bigfoots is that if you give them something that they don't know anything about, they're probably gonna come check it out, because they're relatively smart animals. You know, they're probably the smartest thing in the woods.
And you know, the same reason he's a slide whistle. Give him something that they've never heard before and get their curiosity up and see if they want to come in. And maybe that smell does that. Now? Is it actually a sexual attraction because these are sex pheromones. I'm not exactly sure what they're from, but fro I understand. I have it in my head that these are secretions of some sort from apes and humans. Although I mean, how would you get these things? I mean, I understand physically, how
you might you know, get these things? Well, yeah, your hobbies are your hobbies, bobs, you know, And I'm you know, if you can help doctor Bambineck in some way, I'm glad you can. But but you know, is it is it that sort of attraction or is it
just a curiosity sort of thing? You know, because because I have pulled over on the side of the road because I drove through a stink of something dead and rotting, I went like what and I backed up and did it and I smelled it again, And so I've even had my curiosity raised about smells to go check out before in the woods turned out to be a dead, rotting elk, by the way, But maybe that's what's going on with these maybe, But is it a sexual attraction. I don't know. I
think that jury is still out. But but I think that you do anything of any of the senses. You make noises, you you have weird visual things, you anything unusual that that approaches their them in some way, some sensory way is likely to other attention and bring them in for a slightly closer look. That's the whole thing behind the finding bigfoot nonsense we did in the woods. You know, I'd get I'm sure we'd all get letters from emails. Still do. Yeah, but like they're doing it wrong. You should
go sit up in a tree and decent yourself. And we're camouflage and in the dark and blah blah blah said, yeah, but that's terrible TV. And we can't be quiet anyway because we have a producer and a camera person and a sound person and all these other persons people wandering around of this can't be quiet. You just can't. So the other option is to go big and try to draw them in out of curiosity. So that's what we did. And I think the pheromone chips is probably are somewhere in that realm.
Probably. Yeah, do they work? I think anything unusual works, And if something stinks real bad or smells really good, I think that would work just fine. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, And they were used on the Skukum Cast expedition in early two thousand. I think that's two thousand. Actually, yeah, they weren't. They used there with some success. But is it because of that or is it just because they had something unusual, Like could you use pachuli or something, you know, could you use sandal with
intense? I don't know. Maybe maybe you would have the same effect. I'm not really sure. I think it's I think it's being primate definitely helps. The question is do you think you're fooling like like one our smell you know, females, sasquatch or whatever, you know, some kind of primate around here. You know, is that Is that more enticing than something that smells like, you know, a novelty like some Brazilian center, you know,
some scent from Australia or Asia that they've never smelled before. I think, I think the fact that it's from primate secretions that it's like more effective. I asked my opinion. Yeah, I don't know. I think the jury's out on that one. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean the jury's out. But I think the fact that it is female primate secretions embedded and I think that definitely. I think that helps for sure. Yeah,
I suppose it can't hurt. I mean really at the end of the day, right, Yeah, but yeah, Novelty's Novelty's big with the squatch to get them to come in. Yeah, that's what I think at least. Yeah. Yeah, I don't even know how to get those things. If we ever have a doctor Bambinak on the on the show, we got to ask him how he gets these things. He offered me some ten years ago and I didn't get them from him. Oh he still sells them. We have some here at the museum actually, and you know what, the two
or three times I've smelled sasquatches myself. Yeah, the chips are kind of a little bit like that, kind of but these have a little bit of that in there that but it's not quite right. It could be dialed in a little bit better, but I don't know. Still not that far away either. I guess it's a good way to say it. Do you think we answered that one? Yep? What else you got through it? Good afternoon, guys, A little day from Alabama. Since it's the hundredth anniversary
of the Ape Canyon attack. I'm just curious your thoughts on the attack. I know they said they observed some sasquatches earlier. Do you think that if they had have fired on them first that they never would have been attacked that night? Just a little food for thought, because they seemed to draw first blood, and the sasquatches are definitely retaliated. Thanks guys, love the show
and have a great one. I think it happened. I think that it didn't quite happen the way they said, But I think that those guys got the crap scared out of them, and I think that there were Sasquatches there. I think the story is more or less the way they described it. But I think that they were some very, very very tough men who were very very scared, and I think that that combination caused them to perhaps exaggerate some things or perhaps even misinterpret some of the things that were going on.
But you know, some of the other things that were noted but the miners didn't talk about, I think are a particular interest. A couple of days later after the event. The event, of course, was on July TI, and a couple of days later, I think three days later, they went back up there. The two of the miners were convinced to go back up there. It was Fred Beck and not Marion Smith. The other one
Leroy Leroy Smith. Thank you, thank you, Leroy Smith. Those two young men went back up there with a couple of police officers and a couple of reporters from the Portland Daily News I think it was called a Portland News and photographers and a couple of rangers. Bob Welch. Bill Welch was one of the rangers. I'm terrible with names, but I think I'm getting more or less right. You's always fact check me. Too. I do make
small errors all the time. But they went back up there, and one of the things that they noticed when they returned to the site, besides the footprints that were all around there, the place was apparently lousy with footprints. What the miners did not report that they later discovered is that one of the animals, presumably the sasquatch, was trying to dig underneath the foundation, you know, to some degree. And I think that's kind of scary and cool
too. But as far as the miners, you know, they were out to get us and kill us and all that sort of stuff. I think they were scared, honestly, and I think that that caused them to exaggerate some things, or at least probably just telling it like they thought it. They thought they were gonna die. But have you seen the size of the missing log. Upon the initial attack, when the sasquatch hit the outside of the cabin, it knocked out a huge piece of log called a chinking from
the cabin wall. That's a really big space that's like almost a foot in diameter, and I think, and well not diameter because it's not a circle, but there's like a foot gap in the side of the of the cabin. I can't help but think that, you know, if that was the case, then the guys probably would have all been killed, because the sasquatches would probably reach inside and grab them, or kill them, or rip apart
the cabin themselves. I mean, those are big logs and stuff, but a group of men building a cabin is probably a lot harder than one or two or three sasquatches ripping apart a cabin. You know. I think that they probably could have gotten in had they really really were, like if they were super intent upon it. But I also think that all that trouble started because they shot one of the They shot these things, they're shooting at them,
and then they actually dropped one. They don't know if they killed it, but the thing went over the edge and disappeared into the canyon, presumably dead, but we don't know. Maybe it wasn't dead, you know, maybe just pissed it off. When the miners looked outside of the missing chinking, I believe, I believe they claimed to see six of these things dancing gleefully in the moonlight or something to that effect, some waxing poetic nonsense.
I don't know. I don't know I think that's probably too many, But I don't know. I mean, who knows. Maybe there were six, but that seemed that feel to me. That feels to me like it's just too many. They were scared out of their mind. These things were on the roof. It's not a big deal though, if you know, the cabin sits on a very very steep slope, so it would take all of a four foot jump to get on the roof. It wouldn't be that big of a deal. They were all around the area, the footprints were in
the ground. I think it did happen. I think it happened more or less the way the miners explained, with some you know, fear thrown into the mix. Yeah, I mean I think for I don't think there's any doubt it happened. I don't. I don't have a problem with six of them being there. I mean, they've been seen in groups of six or more, you know, at times, not often, but it definitely is not unheard of at all. It's a lot. That's a big that's a
big group. But they're probably there's probably exactly if there's three or four, that's a lot, you know, So who knows, But I have no doubt that the event occurred. Yeah, I mean, I think that any any bigfooter has probably tried to put themselves in that situation at the time. And I've spent a fair amount of time doing that myself, because it's one
of my favorite stories and so historically significant and right in our backyard. I've been to the cabin side, and we have artifacts from the location in the museum here, like it's a it's a great it's a great, great event. You know, it's one of the seminal events and bigfooting history's I was called one of the classics, right, So I spent a lot of time
what would have been like in that situation. I can't help but think that even two or three sasquatches, if they're running around outside slapping the crap out of the outside of the cabin and hopping on the roof and throwing stuff, they can make themselves sound like they're six or ten or twenty or fifty of these things. I think two or three of them would be enough to put
the fear of God into all the miners, you know. I think to one of the points of Little Dave's question regarding whether or not it was retaliation. I mean, there's so many reports of Sasquatches slapping homes, cabins, shelters that people are hiding inside or sheltered inside, and throwing rocks at the exterior walls and the roof, none of which involve gunfire. So I don't think it would just be that, oh, that's a behavior that's only exhibited
in response or in retaliation too having been shot at. I mean, there might be a connection there, but you could find hundreds of other claims of analogous behaviors that have no gun fire involved with whatsoever. Yeah, if the miners are correct and they're not exaggerating at all or very much, then maybe that extra level of aggression was because these guys shot and possibly killed one of these things, because if you look at the other, another not the other.
But another incident is the Bauman incident, you know, where these guys shot at the saying and the Sasquatch retaliated and killed two out of three guys that were there. So that's that's somewhat of a track record. But I also know of other situations where people have fired on sasquatches clearly hit them according to the witness and the Bigfoots didn't do anything at all. Is there a pattern here, I don't know. I don't know if there is or not.
It's for people that I've talked to them that I believe that tell me they've shot them and probably killed them, or they pretty sure they killed them. There wasn't really much any There wasn't really hardly didn't retaliation like like not. You'd think like they'd go crazy, like there are some stories with them going crazy, people shooting them, going crazy to whatever they can, doing
everything they can to get to the humans. But then there's I've talked to more people that it's like they're like yeah, they they like, you know, I was scared of something's going to happen, Like I was waiting for something to happen. But nothing else happened, And there was and there, and there was others around that they knew, like they saw other ones that
were around there. Yeah, looking for a pattern in this game is pretty hard, you know, because the Sasquatches, of course, are individuals, and they all have their own temperaments, they all have their own past experiences that they build their own lives out of, you know, Like it's hard to find a pattern and all this, and and then you add on top of it the unreliability of witnesses and their interpretation of what they observe or claim
to observe. The whole thing is just kind of be fuddling, you know, just makes you want to hurkle burkle all day. I guess you took care of that. Yeah, best as best we can, Little Dave, Yeah, little Dave, Little Dave, right on. Appreciate your questions. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. What else you got? Prough it theay, Cliff, Hey, Bobo, it's Adam from Staffordge England. Again. Hopefully this
time we don't really break you too well. Just another quick question. Why do you think we have quite quite a big set of data for footprint casts but we don't have many knuckles or handprints? Is it because people just aren't looking for that type of thing? Thanks and keep up the great work. I think that's it. Yeah, I mean people have this thing in their head like you know, toe, big toe, then you know the rest
of the toes, the outline of his foot shape. I mean that's that's what's on my brain when I'm looking, you know, that's that's what you're most looking for. And then those those knuckle princes and stuff. They are pretty obscure usually, are you think, Clive, Yeah, yeah, And let me go back to the beginning of your question. We don't have a lot of footprint evidence. We just simply don't. I think that the number of casts in the entire world is is far less than five hundred, probably
less than four hundred, that'd be my guest. So there's not a ton of data to be shared anyway. That's a lot of photographs of footprints and stuff, and that would probably triple that. Imagine with all the legit photographs of good quality footprints in the ground. Yeah, you're probably looking at you know, I don't know, a thousand or fifteen hundred or something like that. And that's being pretty liberal in my estimate there. I think perhaps a
more conservative one to be in order there. But and as far as footprints and handprints, it's hard enough to see sasquatch footprints in the ground. It is really a different sort of thing. And I've said that lots of times that the John Green books and the Groverkrant stuff, and all these footprint casts really have distorted the Bigfoot communities impressions on Sasquatch impressions, you know, no
pun indentity. They're not usually very clear, and that's a combination of the way their foot is and the way their foot it interacts with the ground and also on the substrate on which they walk on a regular basis. You know,
in my particular area where we're finding these things. You know, I'm confident we're finding Sasquatch footprints, and I'm also confident that I'm making mistakes and doing misidentifications sometimes, I mean, I must be, But at the end of the day, I think the vast majority of the things that I say or Sasquatch footprints or handprints probably are But the people are looking for footprints that
are clear in the ground. We've been taught through the John Green books that these things are very heavy animals and they're very deep in the ground, and that's one of the characteristics of Sasquatch prints, but that simply is not correct. They have big, soft, padded feet that rarely leave an impression. Very often. I'm finding that their toes might a couple toes might make a weird mark in the ground, or their heel might be there, but it's
generally not a full footprint. So basically people aren't looking for the right things for footprints. And then you add the handprints and knuckle prints on top of that. Those are even less expected than a footprint. You aren't going to go out and look for I remember the first time I saw a sasquatch handprint out in the woods. It took me a long time to wrap my head around what I was seeing. Nico was there with me. Luckily, Nico's
a good tracker, as I said, and I was there. I said, Nico, like, we're looking at this, like, what is this market? Like? What are these these marks in the ground, I mean, what's like? What is that? Those can't be toes. I tried to make it. I tried to make those toe impressions. They weren't. They were finger impressions. And then eventually that with placement and context and all that, jazz I said, holy crap, these are handprints. And I kept asking, am I wrong? Nico said, I don't know. I
think that that's what it looks like to me. And we went back and forth for a long time and then found footprints nearby and the whole thing and really solidified our model there, our perspective, our guests. But people are not. First of all, they don't know what they're looking for. And even with footprints, let alone handprints and knuckle prints, I think that most
of the handprints that I have found have been on vertical surfaces. So these things are scrambling up like road embankments and that sort of stuff a time when you would expect their hand to touch the ground. Not all of them, not all of them, you know, but most of them. And then when you so if you're going to find sasquatch handprints or knuckle prints, it has to be an area where it's kind of lounging around, probably a little
bit. I in my in my cast collection, I obviously have the most famous one, which is the nineteen eighty two, the June sixteenth, nineteen eighty two knuckle print from the Blue Mountains that Paul Freeman got in conjunction with the dermal footprints. I have another one from Grant's Pass area that Ray Rosa, one of our guests on the show here collected back in the day. I have several others from this past. I have one other there's a questionable
one too. There's another one from this past June in Mountain Hood National Forest that a friend of mine got that's very very cool. And also there's another one in doctor Meldrim's book that was collected by Paul Freeman that initially they identified as toe marks, but it turned out to be knuckle marks, and doctor Meldrim put his hand down in the same position to really drive that home, and a picture of it. It's in doctor Meldrim's book. You could check
that out. But there aren't very many people out there looking for footprints at all. Okay, I mean I'm out there at least once a week doing it, But I mean, how many other people are out there once a month specifically looking for footprints in the ground. I don't know, that doesn't maybe maybe that many. And the handprints are even less frequently found because they're even harder to identify than sasquatch footprints, which are very hard to identify.
And then you get to the knuckle stuff. I have seen knuckle prints in the ground that if they hadn't been pointed out to me, I wouldn't recognize them for what they are. And when I started looking at them, and go, oh wow, that's really interesting, and then luckily this person cast one, so it does exist. But anyway, I guess that's a very very long winded answer. Sorry about that for the short answer, which is people don't know what to look for, you know, even I'm just still
learning this, you know. I'm sure we've all looked at them. We've all looked at knuckle prints and not realized what it was. I'm sure, yeah, yeah, because I know for myself, and I'm assuming a lot of people are out there. When I'm out there and I'm seeing things like could that be this? Or am I just fool in myself? I'm always asking myself, am I fool in myself? Because this seems too good to
be true? I mean, it's too good to be true to find a Sasquatch footprint, let alone, you know, like five or eight since the beginning of twenty twenty four. I mean that's pretty good stellar, you know. So I'm always asking myself is do I just have big foot on the brain. That's why I'm always looking for more than one footprint. If I can find the trackway that goes a long ways towards making me feel better about it, then I usually can, usually can, But trackways aren't like,
oh, there's a footprint, there's a footprint, there's a footprint. It's like, oh, this is a possible footprint that's very very shallow and kind of vague. But over there there's a scuff mark. Oh, I see it to over and over there there's another scuff mark where the ferns have been pushed down. You got to look for more than just the indentation in the soil, because ninety nine percent of sign of any animals passing isn't going to
be in the soil. It's going to be other sign, broken blades of grass, push down ferns, the sheen of the morning dew looking a little bit differently than it does everywhere else. You know, that's sort of stuff. I'm not a good tracker, but tracking is an art far beyond me. I'm lucky to have been waiting in that pool at all in the last couple of years to the level I have, and I'm very very lucky to have leveled up recently, I think. But yeah, people don't know what
they're looking for. People will walk right past a handprint, let alone footprint, so let alone knuckle prints they're even more rare. Those are my thoughts. All right, So this is the last voicemail, and I think you too might be stumped and trying to answer this particular one. Good stump me
bring it well, terror part that's stump and eat the grubs within. Guys, regarding the bigfoot ness turning out to be only DNA found a horse related I know this is gonna sound crazy, but what about terodactyls those people who claim that they might still exist and could some horses be somehow related genetically to terodactyls and that's why that you found horse DNA? Just wondering. Bye, Oh, that's definitely crazy. Yeah, that's that's pretty out there. Yeah,
but this is bigfoot and beyond that's big that's bigfoot and gone. But I don't know. I've never heard the horse thing, so that would be my first question. I think about that one and the terodactyls stuff. I mean, I know some people report seeing thunderbirds or whatever. Maybe that's what he's talking about, but I've never heard a credible report of a pterodactyl siding.
My barber told it years. My barber told me sort of about terodactyl siding, but I strongly think it was a great blue heron and he was scared or repelican, Yeah, something like that, you know, something to that effect. Yeah, But I don't accept that terodactyls are still living, so I don't need to worry about that, you know. But as far as pterodactyls and horses being related, I can't imagine that would be true. Terodactyls would be reptiles of some sort, and of course horses are mammals,
so I don't think that would be the case at all. And as far as he's being terodactyl nests, I've been to the nest site. I've been to both nest site, and I just don't see how they could really be effective bird nests like a large bird nest at all. There's no sign of any bird droppings or anything like that. And there were also signs of rocks being clacked together. Like the rocks were found on top of the surface the substrate, not down inside of it, so they were placed there, and
sasquatches has been observed knocking rocks together. So I don't think there's any reason I think that these are anything but sasquatchss at this point, let alone terodactyls because I don't think terret actyls are still living, and I don't think and certainly they're not related to horses. I think that humans are probably far more closely related to horses than tered actyls are, because we're both mammals. Well, that that was a good way to end the voicemail ones. That's kind
of cool because some more people got to send us more. Yeah. Well, if anybody listening would like to send us a question via voicemail, go to the website again, Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com and hit the contact button and you can leave us a voicemail. But that's not the only way. You can also email us a question. And we're gonna get to the email questions right now, Bubba, you want to start us off here,
just to clarify for the listeners. When you click the contact button, there's a written submission form, so it does come in via email, but you don't have to like search our email address or you open up your own email client and then log in and pind a new email, so you can just submit it there. So I know we say email submission, but it's all through that same contact form on the website, making it easy for everybody. Thank you, mister Matt Prut. You couldn't do it without you. All
right. We got a question here from uh rabbit rabid says squatch, Oh rabbit sasquatch the little gap through me? Okay. In Krantz's book, he mentions that he's identified five characteristic traits of a sasquatch foot and kept one a secret in order to help distinguish the hoaxes from real prince. I'm wondering if Cliff has figured out what the secret character characteristic is actually there. There were I want to say three characteristics. I could be wrong, maybe this five,
and all of them were kept secret. It wasn't just one, it was they were all kept secret so he could stop people from hoaxing him. It turns out that that when doctor see a lot of the lot of Krantz's stuff when he died, went to the smith Sony and some of the stuff, a small percentage, probably about ten percent of it, some cripple footcasts,
some stuff that from Gray's Harvard County. His complete skeleton, Krantz's complete skeleton with the Smithsonian, along with his Irish wolfhounds, and a few other odds and ends, some of his papers, but most of it, the Lion's share of his stuff ended up with doctor Jeff Meldrum And I asked Jeff about this, and Jeff said he ran across an envelope and inside of the envelope was several things written out in code with the code for translation, and
I have a copy of that somewhere. Doctor Meldrim shared a copy of that with me, so I actually have a copy of all that sort of stuff. And if I remember right, and again this is from this is from my memory. I think it had something to do with one of them had to do with the toe placement. Another one had to do with the base of the metatarsals, coming back to about halfway back on the foot, if I remember right. And there was another thing in there that is escaping me
for right now. But I've spoken to Jeff about these characteristics, and Jeff says, well, yeah, I mean it turns out I kind of found out what those things were on my own along the way, and you know, so he already knew about them. But yeah, that code is actually out there somewhere and has been translated by doctor Meldrum and then we did hear at the NBC for a second. I just can't remember what that third trade is off the top of my head, but yeah, interesting idea. But
all of those things were kept secret, not just one of them. It turns out all of those things were kept secret because he didn't want to be hoaxed. But at the same time he was also hoaxed. There's a photograph of a cast in doctor Krantz's book, and that cast is supposedly from Indiana, if I remember right, and he said that it was the best evidence I think east of the Rockies that he had. If I am recalling everything
accurately, that track was almost certainly hoaxed. Larry Lund was telling me that there was a group of folks bigfoot people back in the day, that faked a cast and sent it to him to show that he had that he could be fooled. And as evidence of that, they supposedly put a red plastic ruler inside of the original cast. And then they later told Krantz about it,
and they said break it and find out. And then at that point somebody's telling you to break open an original footprint cast, like you're probably not going to do it. So doctor Krantz never did. He never actually broke open that cast to see if it was in there or not. So to this day, you know, who knows, maybe it maybe it is a real cast, and doctor Krantz was correct, maybe it's not, and that red ruler is inside there. But I was thinking, like, what is
wrong with those people to charge that? First of all, anybody can be fooled, right, anybody can be fooled. So what kind of psychopathy you know, or mental illness would drive someone to show that anybody can be fooled when everybody knows that anybody can be fooled? Like, what is your problem? First of all? But like what kind of weird mental problem do you have in order to show that people can are fallible? Like you didn't know
that. I think one of the big fallibilities is that somebody would go through such lengths to pull a prank or to make a point that everybody already knows just to be a jerk. You're kind of a jerk if you do that, So heads up on that, don't be a jerk. But yeah, so these jerks went out and they sent doctor Krantz that fake cast, and of course that fake cast is they modeled it off of real Sasquatch tracks had those characteristics in it, And Krantz says, eh, I don't know,
maybe it's real. So that's just sit man. You use a real footprint, a real Sasquatch print as a model, you're probably going to have those characteristics in it. Whether it's three or five, I can't remember, but whatever it is. Yeah, And no surprise, no surprise that you're using a real track for a model is going to have real Sasquatch characteristics. And no surprise here. Anybody can be fooled with a good enough fake. But how would you do that? Like what kind of weirdo? Are you?
Pathetic loser? Seriously? Like real, real, real issue, real issue. Yeah, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages. We got another one here from Chris Buckley. Oh, Chris Buckley. You know Chris Buckley is is cusher singer? No? Far more important in the Bigfoot world than that. I give a Chris Buckley. Does the name Archie Buckley ring a bell? Oh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Chris is direct direct relation. I believe Chris
is Archie's grandson. Oh, okay, he's been at the museum a bunch of times. He emails me stuff. He's shared a story of Archie sitting around a campfire telling boy scouts about Bigfoot one time. Yeah, Chris is a rad dude man. And of course he's royalty Bigfoot royalty because he's related to Archie Buckley. There's no such thing. There's no inheritance. It's all meritocracy. Well, I think I think Chris is benefiting from the huge inheritance
from Archie babies. Yeah, the same last name and that's pretty much all you got I think for big Foot with Archie. Right, So, but anyway, go ahead, But would you want to read this one ahead? Yeah? I really appreciate your careful balance of detail and fun. I bet Archie would too. If the species turns out to be related close enough to modern humans that is recognized with human cognition and language, what two questions would you most want it to answer for? You? Shoot, two questions?
Well, I know my first question is like, tell me about your day. Yeah, that's the only time you've ever asked that question, and be glad to hear the answer. I know, and tell me in real time too, like a day and like step by step, that's what I want to know. Yeah, Like where and how do you live? Like how how often do you move? Oh? God, So there's so many questions, like you want to get two? Are you dangerous to humans? How many? How many? How many of your of your species will get violent,
like physically violent and possibly kill a human? I'd ask that would be one of them, but they might not know. They certainly wouldn't know if you asked me that question about humans, I may not know, right, Gosh, just two questions to ask. Yeah, well, okay, I think I think it's like tell me about your day, like what do you what do you do all day? Like what what's your what's what are you up to? And then second of all, maybe is where do you sleep?
Like what's your preferred place to sleep? Yeah that's a good one, thank you. How far do you move? Like what's your what's your what's your home range? Oh? Yeah, maybe you know. Another one is like how do you tell the other bigfoots in the area that this is yours not theirs? Right? Are you? Are you territorial with each other? If if you guys are territoried with one another. What is the signs uh or do you do you fight or do you vocalize? Says? You get
too many questions. You have to figure out how to put in a broad, broad question. Yeah, it'd be very careful. It's like asking a wish from a genie, you know, because you be very careful about the way you word that. Yeah, we've all seen the towilatone right, so I don't know. Yeah, so there you go. Thank you, Chris. It's a nice air from you. I'm glad you brought up Archie's name and it's always nice to have people like yourself and send in questions and thank
you so much. Yeah, thank you. Next question is from a guy named Steve Oh. The ability for AI to generate video and images will essentially cause us to dismiss any photo or video evidence moving forward. This may not really impact bigfoot research, as it seems that ninety nine percent of those who report a sighting suddenly forget that they had a camera or how to use it.
Will you two continue to consider video dash photo evidence? And if so, what are you doing to educate yourselves on how to identify AI fakes for this kind of stuff? It's gonna be an emphasis going back to like videotape or something you know, like or even like regular film that's really expensive, not really too practical, but like using the old cable hunter like Roger and Roger Patterson had, you know, like something like kind of like digital.
Yeah, digital's would be too easy to like shooting too a SD car or something like you can, I think, too easy to manipulate that, Like I only trust if it was from someone I knew, like or you know, it had to be way way you know, investigated, and you'd have to have impeccable sources and chain of custody and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I will certainly continue to weigh video and photographic evidence, although I imagine that my standard answer of I don't know is going to be coming up
more and more frequently. But as far as what I'm doing to educate myselves myself on how to identify AI fakes, right now, they all kind of have that same look about them, Like, right now, there's no reason to think that any of that stuff out there is real, and I think most that things can easily be identified as artificial intelligence generated. But you know, I also I think people who have listened for a while, kind of know that I don't put a ton of emphasis on what other people have done
or are doing. I think for the most part, I'm really more focused on what I'm doing. But you know, I will say that if Bobo comes back with a photograph, it's not going to be AI man, because I know Boba well and he's got like technologically challenged in some ways. You know, I think that it has to go by a case by case basis. You know, that's one of the that's one of the things that people hold up as evidence about the Patterson Gimlin film being real is that Roger wasn't
capable of doing a fake like that right now. Bobo's not capable of photoshop stuff right now. I mean, I'm barely play with photoshop. I'm not capable of photoshop stuff or AI. Really at the end of the day, I know, I could just type some prompt on some program or something like that have AI pump it out for me, But honestly, I don't even know where to do that. I am most focused on what I produce.
Everybody else's stuff is interesting hearsay at best if I know the person personally and I can trust them, you know, like that'ster Matt Prude or somebody like that. You know, the then great, I can at least fall back on my relationship with that person to have some sort of faith in the thing
that they produce. But as far as anything on the Internet, I kind of think most I mean ninety five percent of stuff on the internet's all fake anyway, even if people think it's real, I think most of it's garbage. So we'll see, We'll see when somebody produces something of value. But then we're gonna have to look beyond that. We're gonna look at the person's
capability. Are they able to do this. We're gonna look at the person's background, have they faked things before they big for researchers, et cetera, blah blah blah. We're also gonna have to look at any footprint, footprint,
photographs, or cast taken at the scene. Again, one of the great things about the PG film is that is supported with multiple kinds of evidence, and I think that any photograph or video going forward is going to have to be So if you, if anybody out there gets photographic evidence of Sasquatch, you need to get back on the scene, or get a researcher back on the scene as soon as possible to find other things that might corroborate your story, because at the end of the day, a story is still a
story even if it has a picture with it, So you have to have something else to really bolster your claim, So keep that in mind. Yeah, last question, Matthew Hepworth, Hi, big Foot and Beyond. I'm a big fan of your podcast. I'm twenty four years old. I've been interested in salesquach since I was little. I was wonderay of Cliff and Bo. Do any expeditions with listeners keep it squatchy? Nope? I did. I did when I was saving money to make the museum. I brought small
groups out. I think they're really good expeditions. Most, I think the vast majority of not everyone who went on them had a good time. We got great stuff that produced a couple of Class A sightings like daytime sightings, a couple of interesting Class B sightings through thermal imagers. We got footprint,
so we got sounds. Yeah, it was a good time was had by all, and everybody got to go to the Glenn Thomas site here in mountain Hood National forests where the sasquatches were seen digging out the hybernating ground squirrels from the rock slope. So yeah, I think everybody had a great time and everything, but I do not do that anymore because I'm far too busy.
And those take a tremendous amount of time and efforts and even money to produce, basically because you got to get you got to get permits from Mountainhod National Force every all public land you have to have permits run these trips on and you have to I fed people of course every single day, insurance insurance on top of it. You have to give a cut of your proceeds to the National Forests anoder the permit. So yeah, it's a it's a tremendous hassle.
And permitting, at least from Mountinhod National Forests starts. It starts and ends in November, and you have to tell them where you're going to be going the following summer, whatever dates you choose, so you kind of have to give them a map and highlight maps on a Forest Service map where you intend to be walking at night and doing that sort of stuff, and you just never know. I found it to be far more cumbersome of a burden
than I wanted. Uh, And you know, it helped me raise some money for the museum, and it was cool and I learned some sponts. It was great. But I don't do that anymore. I just do I go out a loan or in very very very small groups. I was starting to do some more and then I had, uh when I had all my gear ripped off, when that that publican got stolen off the back of my truck, when I was load enough to go up to go up for a trip. Yeah, I did. I did a couple in the last couple
of years. I did one this year, and uh, usually it's just kind of like, I mean, people always like, hey, you know, you know, I'll buy the beer, let's go, you know, like that kind of stuff, and I'm like, you know, it's yeah, it's it's a big deal. I mean, it's it's a lot of work. I mean, you gotta because you unless you have like a set spot you're going to. But I try to like stay up on what's going on, the latest things like where we're most likely to find them, and
then go to that spot. And yeah, you got to like rhun scout ahead of time and you know, put a lot of time in figure out the best chances we're gonna you know, possibly hear hear something or have an encounter. And it's pretty stressful too, you know. You tell people like don't expect to see anything, or you know, you might hear something, but don't expect to see anything, and then you still feel it's pressure to
like deliver, you know. It is a lot of pressure. Yeah, and for me, I did a limited load, you know, like we only took ten or twelve people out of total, and then we capped it and that's it. And even then, like there's ten or twelve people expecting you to put them on a sasquatch. Yeah, that's a nuts thing that.
I mean, we got really lucky we hit something usually on ever big trip, you know, but sometimes it was down to that last night, and it's God, I hope they're over here, hope somebody hears something. You know. Yeah, the pressure is just overwhelming. Honestly, it's just it kind of takes away. They're still fun to do, don't get me
wrong. I mean, who doesn't like bigfooting, But it's just so much pressure and so much time, so much money to go out and at the end of the day, you know, it's it's hard to turn a profit. And that was my goal at the time because I was trying to dump money into the museum. Now that that pressure is off, you know, I'm just choosing not to do them anymore. Yeah, I mean, you had Jill and Sharon Blart. She was I mean that was the best. You had the best camp host ever. She was such a fantastic cook and
bake baked desserts, multiple desserts every day. And yeah, that was great. Yeah, I will say I think I ran probably the best expeditions ever. Nothing against the BFO or anybody else who does these things, but we had Sharon Beelart cooking free every night, and it's like having your your mother
cooking for the entire family every single night. It was a killer. On top of that, we had a special guest, I mean, Bobo was our special guest on some we had Derek Randall's, we had doctor Jeff Meldrum out there, we had we had like, you know, quote unquote celebrities on every single trip. Every single trip, all the camping was taken care of. I told you I couldn't put you on a big Foot. But we all went to the Glenn Thomas site every single expedition, so you got
to see these holes in the ground that the sasquatches dug. Yeah, those are pretty a great expedition and again sasquatches are around the daylight sidings. In one case we had one daylight sighting and several nighttime things. Really really cool stuff happened, but no more too bad. All right, Well, I think that's about it for this Q and a thank you very much for all
your submissions. And if you have a question you would like to ask Bobo and I and or even Matt Proot for that matter, go ahead and go to Big One and Beyond podcast dot com, hit the contact button and ask away. You can even leave us a voicemail. We love those. Of course, we like hearing our listeners, so yeah, go ahead and do that for us. And now we're going to go do the Members section. Members have a special episode every single week. If you would like to become
a member, you might want to consider it. You can go to Bigfit and Beyond podcast dot com and hit the membership link and it'll tell you everything you need to know. But what you get for that is you get an extra hour of Cliff, Bobo and Matt every single week, and you also get these regular episodes with zero commercials, no commercials whatsoever. That alone seems to be worth five bucks. So that's what you get. Five bucks a month. You get all these gifts showered upon you. Plus this is something
that I kind of neglect. I forget to mention honestly, when we talk about something like that tree break I mentioned earlier, or we go to some deep dive into some thing that I found, or what Bobo's doing, and like he has behind the scenes things that he wants to share, we share them with members on the Patreon account. Only members can see these things,
and I think that's pretty cool. So you may want to consider becoming a member just so you can see picture of these tree breaks for footprints or handprints or any of these things that we're talking about on air. Kind of a cool little feature there. Yeah, it is cool, all right, folks. Well, that's another week of Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo and our super producer Mat prove it. So yeah, thanks for joining us,
and until next week, y'all keep it squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond.