Big food and be on with Cliff and Bulbo. These guys are you favorites? So like say subscribe and raid it. I'm stuck and me on USh today and listening, oh watching lim always keep its watching. And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay, Hey Bobs, how you doing man Q and a day. I'm doing good, Cliff, how are you? Things are good? Things are good. Have some time at home. My dog's on the upswing. She's doing a lot better now, which is great
principal concern of mine this past couple of weeks. As I mentioned, I think on last week's episode, get a little bit of time off, but I'm also spending a fair amount of time in the shop. We're doing a lot of improvements. Man, there's a lot of cool things happening in the NABC over the next couple of months. Pretty stoked. You gotta come up and check them out. Yeah yeah, yeah, really neat stuff. New displays, we're revamping old displays. We're not we don't have square footage to
expand, but we're expanding up in various ways. Some really really neat things are happening. So looking looking forward to seeing how they all come to fruition here. I think he told me that is a surprise. Well, I don't want to talk about too much. I guess there are some cool things, but we're doing some like a human origin sort of thing, kind of
explaining what like the general idea of what a relati hominoid is. We're doing an Ape Canyon display because next year is a centennial of the Ape Canyon story, and in fact, we're gonna be celebrating that all year long. It's gonna be some events. We're trying to Mark marcell In on some things. He's going to help me design the new display with permission from the Gifford Pincho National Forest Archaeologist. We're going to try to get some of the artifacts that
Mark has obtained and put those out for people to check out. Real stuff. And then, of course, since the mine itself was rediscovered just like a month or two ago, that kind of puts a nice punctuation mark in the end of that sentence. You know. We do a commember of coin every year as well. It's gonna be Epe Canyon Center, so we're gonna have an Epe Canyon Coin RG. Yeah, really really neat stuff, man, really neat stuff. I'm doing a display on a human feet because we
were donated, is that right? A pair of shoes that were made for Shaquille O'Neal have been donated to the museum. Yeah, from Nike. I guess Nike didn't donate it, but it's one of their employees had it or whatever. And then of course that ended up in Larry LUN's hands, and Larry gave him to us. Larry's course a great friend and a great historic bigfooter. So we're doing like, okay, yeah, a person the size of Shack. You know, Shack is the size of a small SaaS watch.
Basically, I think he's seven foot two or something like that, remember, right, yeah, seven to one, like three eighty yeah, yeah, So he's kind of a more feminine saasquatch perhaps, I don't know. But his feet, well, his shoes. I measured his shoes yesterday. They're fifteen inches long, but they aren't very wide. The Patterson Gimlan film subjects feet are about fourteen fourteen and a half inches long, and her feet are about a third wider than Shacks. So I thought that'd be kind of
a fun, fun displays like put Shequille O'Neil's shoes out there. Compare them to the PG film subject's feet or some other sasquatch of equivalent length. You know, this show that humans of that size don't have feet the size or shape or functionality of sasquatches. And of course I also have a few other
interesting footprints from various humans, most notably Bob Saggott. I have Bob Saggatt's foot print cast, and Bob let me cast his prints when we filmed that thing up on the Olympic Peninsula with him years ago, so I put that in there. And of course, if you remember when we filmed that Organ episode of Finding Bigfoot, we hung out with that dude, Eric, the second tallest man in Organ. Yeah. Yeah, he's like seven to three or something like that, and so I have his footprint cast as well.
So I'm making a little display of tall humans and how their feet are remarkable different than sasquatches. A bunch of other stuff too. I think we're going to get another another sasquatch model from Bo Bruns. I'm working with bo Bruns to do some handprint evidence stuff that I want to disclose too much of it's
pretty cool. Going to commission him to do some stuff for me. And there's just a lot of things on the horizon right now, just a lot of things on the horizon, too many to even mention, but I mentioned some cool, Yeah, I did. Bart was up here for five days and it was a success all around. We won money betting football games and we also had It was interesting. We went back to a spot we go to every so often and it was really cold. It was like the colodest
night of the year so far. It was like high twenties or whatever. So we hiked in and we got like pretty late. It was like I think we hiked in around twelve thirty in the morning, just after midnight. And we got in there and we were walking. We were head into the spot we always go to, like the spot you've been to with me before, and I thought I heard something. I thought I was hearing something, so I stopped and then I hear like a you know, just a like
a pop. And I was like, oh, bar hold on. And we sat there and listened, and then then I heard another one like a you know, and then about ten seconds later there was another one. Call them like tap back and forth to It was definitely not for us. They did not want us to hear it. And then we sat there and they just kind of they were on there, sort of the creak from us, and we just heard them slowly go, not slowly as I guess they're going,
kind of quickly. We it was amazing things we couldn't hear any We couldn't hear them moving. It was just we'd hear like a knock and then another knock, and then I did a couple like single collaps and they answered me back three times. Cool. Yeah, but they were like, still, I don't think they're answering me back, like for me to hear it. Well, one of them was loud enough like it was like that. I think they did so that we could we could hear it. Also.
Then after that, I was like just real softer ones as they moved up away from us. Interesting. Interesting, So when's the last time you were in this particular area? I go that pretty often. Yeah, when's last time you heard something? I guess when last timmer you were aware that they were in this particular area. It's the same place I told you about where I was having the daytime stuff where I never had daytime stuff before. Then I just got that clapping thing. Yeah, how long ago was that?
I don't remember. Summer before last is when I had the clapping exchange. I think it was last summer. Jesus can't remember enough it was, I guess it was. It was either a year ago or it was either like a year and a half ago, or like last April, or it was like last May twenty twenty two. I can't remember. Then I also had that's when I where I clapped once and then it clapped once and then I clapped twice. It clapped twice, and I clapped three times. At clapped
three times. Then I clapped four times. I did four times. I went back to three and it didn't do it, and I did two and answered to that I did one did one. That sounds awesome, Yeah it was, I was. I was super stoked on that one. Well, yeah, I mean because you may be able to like call or knock and they may do something back, but they have that level of interaction as just a you know, one step beyond. Yeah. And that was also the
day that I couldn't. I was like wondering, like is there like some CCC you know, like work, you know, like the young guys gals. They have that thing for like seventeen to twenty three year olds the California Conservation Corre. They go out and like do trail maintenance and cut fire lines. And I kept hearing like a gaily laughter and like talk like fast talking,
but I couldn't make any words out and it was so Yeah. When I was walking back up on the parking lot, there was a there was a woman sitting there and she was this really bitter, angry like German lady like in the early sixties, and I was talking to her id I was like, I was like, yeah, I go, did you was there anyone else around here? She's like no, And I think she thought I was like a car burgler or something and I said uh and she and then so she was some dude was sitting in a van. I said, is
there other people in your Is this there's other people in your van? Like that could be down there making noise or doing anything. And she got all pissed off like no, like you know, kind of mind your own business stuff. And I was like, well, they don't like that, you know, it's not them. And then there was no other vehicles there.
There was one car but it was there when we got there. This was a few hours later, and the car was sl I think they were like, you know, they weren't around because you don't, you don't hang out though you know the trail head there's nothing there. Yeah, so I mean
that day was a trip. I never could make anything out for sure, and it was it was kind of a breezy day, like you know, the trees were making a little noise, but I definitely was hearing talking in like loud like voices, and I tried to ask the lady like, well, did you hear people talking about her? And she just took a strager
for cigarette, glared at me and blew smoke in my direction. Oh classy, Yeah, wellea, I think, I mean bigfooting in my net of the woods is kind of I mean, it's not coming to a close right here, but you know, the storm coming in right now is going to drop the snow level to twenty five hundred feet probably over the weekend. Yeah, so my best spot's are right at twenty three to twenty eight. So that kind of shuts me out because I don't I don't play around with snow
very often. Dude. We were being bared, we came, we came back to the pad every night. Were just we never even went that. We never went out deep. We just stayed because the first night we had the knock, so we stayed. We didn't go to the same exact spot. We went to places like other access points nearby, and uh yeah, I just I was like, god, you know, it was like in
the twenties, low thirties. I was like, I just hate camping this stuff now and nothing never happens down there on the where we were at, Like I've never had any nighttime stuff like you go Inland and I've had stuff happen at night all like that's when stuff happens. But so yeah, we just went back. We we wouldn't get back to like you know, practically sunrise and then just crash out. But yeah, we got pretty worn out that on the f at night. Bart was like we were both so tired.
He just goes because I hate to say this, dude, I got another night, but I think I'm in a head home. Like dude, I don't blame anything. He left it like one o'clock after night. I just went to bed and stayed in bed till the next day. Nice nice. Well, you know, age will eventually affect everyone, even Bart. Yep, it just did. For the first well, he was getting over like the flu or something, and then he had when he was driving back. Then he had a full relapse. Well, it had to be more
than just age for Bart. You know, Bart's one of the most enthusiastic big futters I've ever met. Yeah, yeah, endless energy and enthusiasm. The final night, he definitely was. He did not have the thron to his eye twenty four to seven. It was only into his eye about ninety percent of the time. Oh my god, he's slipping. Yeah, it
just these like thermal ocular implants or something, and he'll be set. God, I mean I remember how it was, but I kind of almost forgot, Like, how like doing that many nights in a row, how hard that is in your eyes? Well, yeah, and everything really. I mean, I hate to tell you both. I mean, I don't know how you feel, but we're not young men anymore. If as all as you feel, I'm screwed because I feel pretty old. I know me too.
My birthday was this week, so I got a little extra jab of age and me and it's like, oh yeah, fifty three years old. You ain't no Spring Chicken anymore. Oh well, enough about us. But wait, wait, how can I say that people actually tune in to listen to us so well, I don't know. It's a Q and a day, you know, and that's something to celebrate. This. This is what
my favorite kind of episode to do. It's just a lot of fun because we don't know what's coming, and then it's a chance to kind of interact to some degree with our fan base and like people who listen to this program and everywhere in between. I love these shows. So that's today. I'm excited about this one. Yeah, I love this. What do we got,
pru It? Yeah, Prue, light it up, pruit. I will preface this by saying that this might be my favorite voicemail of all time, as it speaks to the inner child and me and hopefully in all of us. Hi, Cliff and bow Book. Name is Kaya some Colorado and I'm wondering what squatches poop look like. I love your show so much. They look like giant human poops. For the most part, I'm not sure I've ever actually Kaya. By the way, thank you very much for the
question. Colorado is a great state, you're lucky to live there. Do you think it's weird that, Like Kaya said, what does poop look like? I love your show? She doesn't it sounds like, well, yeah, I have to say I don't. I'm not sure I've ever one percent absolutely I'm completely positive scene a sasquatch turd, you know. Yeah, I have that one that's that went on the rat trap with the footprints straddling on
each side of it. It took that one brought to the the fishing game and so they were gonna like look at it, and it turned out they just threw it away. Yeah. I mean, I've never seen one that I'm positive as big butt. But I've seen some big turn that look like human turds in the woods and makes me wonder, you know, bigger than what I would expect a bear. But man, there's some big bears out there too, So I don't know. I've heard bigfoot turds look like big
humans, and Bobo just verified that to some degree. I've heard that they might be the diameter of a soda can. Yeah, I've seen what I thought was sasquatch scat, and that was in the Southern Appalachians during a time when there was a heavy acorn mast And you know, there's a number of mammals and a number of animals, but certainly some of the larger mammals that eat acorns pretty regularly. But one of the things that defines them is the
shape of their teeth. You know, their dentition is is fairly unique, and you can identify animals via that. And so, for example, when I've seen black bear scat that was full of acorns, you know, they tend to look chopped, because a bear's dentition will sort of chop things of that nature. And I've seen other very fresh scat that looked like it was made of acorn material, but it had been so finely masticated and chewed and
like ground into ost like peanut butter. Sometimes bear scatt can get rained on and everything sort of degrades, and so it turns into that mushy like peanut butter sort of consistency. But it'll also be really discolored. You can tell it's very aged, and then you can break it open with a stick and
still find the big chopped chunks inside of it. But this was like a log of peanut butter, and so it seemed like it was chewed by something masticated by something with a very different sort of dentition than ungulates would have, where than bears would have. And so I thought that was very compelling. But also one thing you learn from black bears, because they're omnivores, is that there is no definition old black bear poop, because it depends on what
they're eating. And their diet is so varied that sometimes they're more like cowpies and sometimes they are more like logs. And I would say to Kaya or anybody else, if you go back and listen to Darryl Collier's interview, I'm pretty sure he recounted, if not on our interview with him on Bigfoot and
Beyond, but I know he's recounted in other podcasts. Incident where he had a very close encounter with a sasquatch and it seemed to have been alarmed and it bolted, and right where it was standing was a fresh pile of scat that was still basically hot and steaming, and it looked like a big pile of peanut butter, like heavily finely masticated nut material. And area ACTX where this occurred is full of various nut bearing trees and so I think it does
vary a lot. But if you're talking about something dense like nuts and it seems to be finely chewed and masticated almost into a paste, you'd have to rule out a lot of other animals because they just don't have the dentition to do that. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages. How does that compare with what you saw, Bobo? This one was it had a lot of vegetation in it, and it also had deer. There was some deer hair, and you
can tell us meat like that. It's been eating meat too, just you know, it's that real dark texture, and had didn't have some road and hair. Just I couldn't tell exactly what it was eating a lot of vegetation. Yeah, again, I haven't verified anything to be sasquatched poop. I didn't have a weird turd, though appeared by my car I thought was interesting.
I went walking in Easter Island, one of our spots, this one particular place where we have been repeatedly finding footprints, and of course we it's very likely been repeatedly finding footprints because we repeatedly walk that road. But on the way out, you know, just walked the road, didn't on the didn't find anything. On the way back, there was a big old turd about thirty feet from my car, right in the middle of the road. I thought that was kind of peculiar. Of course, it could be almost
anything, and it does kind of match your peanut butter description there. Yeah, so Kaya, I don't know if that answered your question, but it certainly gave us stuff to talk about for a while. We do appreciate that, and of course we appreciate you listening and then phoning in the question. We really when we say phoning and phoning it in, of course, you know, we mean that in a good way. Yeah, maybe we should go to the next question. Hey, Cliff and Bubbo Nick from New Jersey.
I was hoping you can let us know some of your favorite casting products and techniques. Really interested in how you all do it? Love you guys, stay squatchy. My favorite casting material is hydrokel white, and specifically white. I just like I like that one. Hydro cal in general has a yellowish sort of color to it. It's okay, it's okay, it's real pretty. Actually, when you do like a wash over it or wherever with
some cement stain. It turns out really nicely. But I kind of prefer the white for whatever reason, just I figure plaster cast plaster or white. You know, it's just a personal preference there. But honestly, my favorite material is what's at hand, what you can actually cast in. The most important thing is to get the impression recorded. Another great material, dental stone is fantastic, has a high level of detail and that sort of thing.
It's easy to work with, it's expensive, but it's good. I think the most important thing might be to whatever you have you practice with it first, so you know your first cast is a track like a real squash track. Yeah, absolutely that that would fall into the technique part of the question, for sure, for sure. In fact, one of the guys of Bobo sent somebody my way. I was texting with somebody this past week who's been finding footprint tracks on a railway rise, I guess, And that's why
I told him. It's like he was telling me what about this and what about this? And I kind of said, well, at the end of the day, you should just do a test run, you know, make a print next to the real print and then try to cast your own and see how you screw up, and then try not to do that on the real one, because everybody screws up. I mean, mistakes are made all the time. And the more you practice, the fewer mistakes will be made, but you're still going to make them. I mean I I screw things
up all the time. You have a practice, practice, practice, and it also helps the practice and a variety of substrates, like because casting in dry sand is very different than casting in super saturated mud, for example. They both have their challenges and they both make it easier in some ways. You know, every situation is a little bit different. So it's just a good idea to get out there. And if you find a bear print, cast it, you know, you find a cool elk print, cast it,
you find a mountain lion print, cast it? Why not? It's fun, it's cool, you have a souvenir, and it's giving you that rehearsal for the real show when you're face to face with the fifteen inch print of the ground. That's my take on it. As far as and other techniques, I guess, but I think the most important thing is take photographs
and then cast it. Because what I've been finding lately is that, you know, the books and the photographs and everything that we see online and whatnot, they really have skewed the perception of what sasquatch footprints look like in the ground. And everybody's looking for that really two or three inches deep, Look
at the weight the thing must have had. Blah blah blah. Now they're not like that, man, They're really not like like that, because the substrate usually is not conducive to that sort of impression, or maybe the animals themselves, or they don't like to walk in it. I know that my dog doesn't like to walk in mud. Maybe sasquatches feel the same way. I don't know, But most sasquatch impressions in the ground are very subtle. So I don't know, man, just they're not what they're not what we
think they are. And once you tune your eyes to see them, you know, you don't find a lot of them. You never find a lot of them, but you kind of have to tune your eyes. It's kind of like, you know, you're standing on the ground, you look down that oh, look there's an ant and you go, oh my god, there's like ten thousand ants. I didn't even see them. You know,
you have to kind of calibrate your eyes to see certain things. Yeah, take photographs because sometimes those the footprints can be seen better in the photograph than they can in the cast, and sometimes it's the opposite. I just put out a new video for the NABC members, because our members get two videos every single month that we make in shop. And in this particular video, I was down in the Blue Mountains at this one particular area. I went
looking for the Summerland tree. There's a tree out there in the Blue Mountains that has a bunch of ribbons and memorabilia kind of tied to it, and it's a place where West Summerland's funeral was held. And I've been looking for the tree for a long time because I want to go buy and pay my
respects. And I found it is that as at a location where a number of footprints have come out of And so I went walking around, thinking, Okay, the best homage to West that I can possibly give is to look for sasquatch footprints at this place that meant so much to him that he had his funeral here. So I was walking down the creek and I found I found a series of three no one two three four footprints of a biped They
were either humans wearing boots or a sasquatch, I don't know. The prints weren't real big, about twelve inches if I remember correctly, but the space between them was sixty one or sixty two inches a step length. So either a human running or a sasquatch making good time, I'm not sure. And at the time, when looking at them in the ground and thinking, well, this is a this is a definite maybe right, and that's going what
am I looking at here? But when I looked at the video when I was making the video, the impressions that jumped out at me even more so than they did in person, Which is why I think taking photographs of these impressions in the ground is so important, because it gives you a perspective. And cameras, you know, are awfully sensitive nowadays. They can they can help you see things that perhaps you can't see in person. Anyway, that's my thought. Take pictures, do the best job you can, and as
Bobo said, most important thing you can do is practice. Amen. I hope that helps Nick. All right, you want to cue up the next one. Yeah, that's here it what do you got proved? Hey clipping Bobo Ryan from Vancouver here. I just want to say, awesome show. Got a chance to be the museum this summer. Just great place, full of great information exhibits. Matt, your book was incredible. I think everyone should read it. I just want to know what your guys's opinions are six
toad prints? Do they really exist or they use? Are those fake ones or is it polydactylism. I know that even the Kocony beer logo up in Canada here has six prints as the sasquatch on the print. So just wondering what you're are on that? Thank you. Yeah. Interestingly enough, that
trope, that motif is associated with some of the mystery apes worldwide. A lot of the old legendary sort of narratives that are associated with these various mystery apes include things like six fingers, six toes, and two rows of teeth. Those are frequently recurring sort of mythological tropes or motifs. But I'm sure Cliff can speak to the fact that there's nothing in the in the modern eyewitness record, you know, the testimonial record, nor the record of modern evidence
that would suggest that. So it seems more like a mythological motif for almost like an archetypal idea, much more so than something that's supported by direct observation or by the evidence. I can point to a couple casts that seem to have six toe impressions, and there's a very simple explanation for them, in
my opinion. But first of all, mammals, you know, like the primates, mammals in general, don't have six digits essentially unless something's very very wrong with them, and I don't think that would be the case with sasquatches for the most part. But these very small number of footprint casts that show a possible six digit what the simplest and I think most reasonable, And I think the right explanation for those is a double strike is what it's called.
Because here I go again, this is my mantra. I should make sure it's saying. The footprint is not the shape of the foot, it's the shape of the damage done to the ground by the foot as the thing walks
by. So if the foot hits the ground, maybe makes the five toe impressions, and then the weight shifts to a different place or the foot slips a little bit, or the direction to travel changes in mid step, and the push off happens after that the toe might be forced into the ground at a different location than it was initially inserted into the ground, essentially because the
stepping thing, you know, just off the top of my head. Okay, so maybe change of directions, a shift, or a slippage or something like that. Three things off the top of my head that might happen in that half a second or a quarter of a second that that foot is in contact with the ground. It changes the shape of the impression that that foot made in the ground. Essentially, it's what we call a double strike.
Something shifted in the foot, it changed, and the impression, the shape of the damage done to the ground by the foot changed because of whatever the variable was at the time, the change of direction or the shifting or the slipping or whatever it else. It could have been. Something important to keep in mind when you're looking at sasquatch footprints in general, is that their feet and which includes their toes. Right, their feet and toes are about as
malleable, about as bendy as your hands are. Now. They probably can't do as much obviously, because you have these wonderful thumbs that are opposed and you and touch the fingertips to the thumb and all that jazz. It gives us a precision grip where we can do things like pick up individual hairs off of a table or Bebi's or something like that. The sassquatches, obviously, their feet aren't like that. Heck, their hands aren't even like that.
But their feet definitely are not like that. But their toes are very often as long as your fingers are. They don't look that long because they're contrasting with the planet surface on the other part of the foot, whereas your fingers look really long because your palms aren't that big. Right, But when you look closely at a lot of these footprint casts, their toes are almost as long as your fingers are, and they bend almost as much, if probably
maybe even as much, we don't know. But and when you add to that the midfoot flexibility, remember that midfoot flexibility isn't just too This isn't just an up and down motion. It's a left and right motion as well as kind of an oblique sort of thing bending back and forth as well. Their feet are very very bendy Now those feet are carrying around a mass of five or eight hundred pounds and stepping on the ground each time in this uneven,
sloppy terrain that they prefer to live in. All sorts of things can change the shape and distort the impression that those feet leave. Imagine walking on your hands and all the differentiation that each print would have one from another. Right, So that's kind of what you're dealing with. Never forget that when you're dealing with sasquatch feet or footprints, Never forget that that their feet are so
bendy and malleable. They're capable of some very strange distortions themselves. But when you take into account that, like, that's not even the shape of the foot. You have this bendy thing leaving an impression in the ground, and that impression is a half a second in length over time, right, And then there's the shifting of the weight and the direction of travel, and the slope of the ground and the water content of the ground, and all these
other variables play into it. There are probably close to an infinite number of variety of ways that that foot can impress, and sometimes double strikes happen in the toes, leaving the no pun intended impression of having six toes. But they do not. They have five. Sometimes they're just hoaxes thoughn that's another short answer. Yeah, I get asked about this a lot, so I'm certain whatever people ask me about frequently, they ask you guys about about fifty
times more. But there was a hoax that was perpetrated on coast to coast am years ago by a guy who called himself Bugs in Texas. Oh yeah, yeah. He claimed that he got and killed two Sasquatches, and it was later sort of sussed out that he was a local radio personality and a lot of people recognized his voice. But even in his fictional story about dispatching two Sasquatches, he said that they had two rows of teeth, and if I'm not mistaken, he also said that they had six fingers and six toes.
And so it is a recurring trope that even hoaxers today try to, you know, mix into their stories because it makes their stories comport with these sort of legendary tale too. You know, I wouldn't mind having six fingers if I could have two thumbs. It really makes sense for your seven string guitar playing I suppose it would, right, right, let's move to an eighth string. What about you, Bo? Do people ask you about that story a lot? Uh, not anymore than you used to? But yeah,
that was a I mean that was geez. That was like fifteen to twenty years ago. It was. But it resurfaces all the time when things like Ready and TikTok. People clip it because you know, those old episodes ended up on YouTube and so people clip those and then it's like, what's the story. There's a new story. Remember Robert Morgan was in some of those episodes of movie Oh yeah, yeah, yeahs to drawing the map and he was going to go find it and all that, and so yeah,
it's one of those things that comes back to life every few years. It definitely pops up on STAZ. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. All right, Well, here is the next voice man, Hi, Cliff and Bobo. My name is Robert from Saint Augustine, Florida. I have a question. I was just wondering how come finding Bigfoot never went to the Monster Quest cabin on snow Grove Lake and also have any one of you guys ever been to Saint
Augustine. Thank you have a great day, Robert. I was in Saint Augustine last night. Beautiful town. We had a great time. Yeah, we looked into going there. We were definitely, we were pretty psyched on it, but it was pretty expensive to get in there, and it was pretty remote, and just the whole logistics wasn't really working out, and that Cavin rents out way ahead of time. It's like a popular cabin besides the
big Foot stuff. It's real popular with fishermen, like you got a book early and so, yeah, we didn't get up there, but it was definitely spoken about. Yeah. I mean remember there were sixteen of us on the road on finding Bigfoot, four cast members and twelve other folks, and still Grove Lake cabin is from an understand a cabin, you know, And it was bad enough sometimes when they had, you know, us for cast members sleep in the same cabin let alone, all sixteen of us. It
wouldn't have happened. They just like that you couldn't accommodate a crew our size in such a location, especially when you have to take a floatplane in Doug hijack just went there. I think in August. He was going to try to obtain that screwboard for our museum and do some fishing and stuff like. That screwboard is somewhere else at this moment. He's trying to track it down or and that's what he told me, trying to track it down for us.
We'll see about that, but yeah, that's just not the place that we can do that sort of filming because you need to have access to a lot of things that just would not be available there. We're kind of a big production at the end of the day. Finding Bigfoot was a pretty big production, you know, and all these guys had to have like, you
know, recharge their equipment every night and the battery packs. Yeah, there's no generator there, solar, Yeah, they have to They're in contact with the production company back in LA and stuff all the time and shooting things around to the network. And yeah, there's it's a big, big thing, you know, and impossible to do at such a location. Can you imagine how many float planes it would have taken to get you guys in the entire
crew and all that equipment there. Oh dude, Yeah, I only had one plane to going in and out, so it would have been just is logistically it was not happening. Yeah, I think how hard like Nepal was for us, because that's probably as close as we came to such an isolated location, you know, because there was electricity up there, but I don't even know how they generated it. It wasn't wires or anything, was it. I mean they had water hydropower. Oh, they had hydropower up there.
That makes sense. Yeah, because we had to take what three helicopters and farius back and forth, and yeah, it was it was a big thing to get us all up there. It wasn't easy for all of them, especially, you know. But yeah, I think snow Grove this the accommodations just could not support a film crew of sixteen. Essentially, we probably narrowed it. I mean we probably traveled with twelve or fourteen to Nepaul though, we you know, to shave off some of the extra weight, so
to speak. Saint Augustine though, yeah, I've been to Saint Augustine. I spoke at Lauren Coleman's cryptoology conference back in I don't even know what year, twenty fourteen maybe or something. I don't know what year, because you know, you know, my sense of time is weird. No, I would think it was there. It was lovely though, nice little town. It's not far from some good habitat either in the Ocala Wildlife Management Area and the O'calla National Forest. There's a lot of reports. But yeah, I'd
never been there before. But I was just there for one night, literally last night. It was amazing. It was super cool town, lots of cool history and never been there. I've seen like, yeah, I've seen it on travel shows and stuff places like forrad Yeah, it's totally cute. It's a neat town. We did the ghost tour and the night before we had done a ghost tour in Savannah because it's funny. You just ride around
and they tell you a lot of the history. But both hosts were referencing people that we've had on this podcast, and I just didn't say anything, but they were talking about, you know, various TV shows, and I was like, oh, yeah, Cliff and Bobo had them on this podcast. Were they ghost nerds like they were talking about, Yeah, they were
totally ghost nerds. And of course they were like, you know, asking people if they believed or disbelieved or were fence sitters, And I just didn't raise my hand because on any of the questions, because obviously I have a very large noticeable sasquatch silhouette tattoo, and so to raise my hands, especially if it's a matter of fin sitting or disbelief while being you know, emblazoned with sasquatch iconography is like the total throwing stones and glasshouses sort of a thing.
So I just stayed quiet. Right, it's like the scarlet a or the mark of the beast or something. Who could believe such hogwash? Anyway, on this week's episode of a Big Foot of Beyond Right, well, I hope that helps Robert. Should we go to the next question question? Good eye, Cliff, and bye bye. Paul. Here from Australia. Many years ago, I had the privilege of interviewing the light Great Rex S.
Gilroy. What a legend. One thing that he said that fascinated me was that he felt strongly that Haimo erectus had survived on the Australian consonent why into modern times many many sightings of sasquat slash yow He's he believed were in fact sidings of Homo erectus. So my question is that, while I'm hoping that you must have had some contact, perhaps talk with Rex yourself over the years before he passed, did you ever hear such a tale? And what
are your thoughts? Love the show? Thanks again from down I'm to keep up the great work. Cheers. Yeah, I talked to him. He kind of had the beginnings of dementia go and we were down there to film. He's interesting guy. Yeah, I was amazed. Like his butterfly collection, he said, like the biggest butterfly private collection in all Australia. He was a noted geologist. He was an all around interesting guy. I'm not sure about all his theories on the Harmonid line lineage that would account for the
Yawi and stuff. I don't know. I think some of this stuff was kind of disproven by general anthropologists and geologists. Yeah, you know, home Erectus remains had never been found on Usustralia. Of course, the type specimen was found in Java, which isn't that far away. It's in Indonesia, of course, so maybe they've got there eventually. But home Erectus fossils have never been uncovered from Australia. Then again, neither have all sorts of other
things that could be the AWI essentially, so that doesn't discount it. But I don't think that Homo Erectus is a good candidate for the Ayui. Honestly, home Erectus used tool the tools they controlled fire from. Understand they're smaller, and you know, they're just a hair under five about six feet tall.
I don't think they're a good candidate. We don't have a lot of photographic evidence of the Aoi, but we do have those interesting thermal hits, a couple of those over the last couple of years, and that kind of thing that those particular thermal hits, to me, at least the silhouette that is that has shown to us strongly suggests sasquatch to me. But Cliff, you always say you like Paris was smaller than that. Yeah, yeah, Parantapis was four or five feet tall, but home Erectus had was much more
recent as well and had less time to evolve. And the reason I think that paranthropists is a decent candidate for sasquatches is that they are identical to sasquatches pretty much, and if they went northward, they would have gotten into colder climates, and colder climates will make an animal grow larger over generations. I don't know how large the Java man was, how large the Indonesian home erectus was, but I would bet that they were on the smaller side of the
scale because of Bergmann's rule. That'd be my feel on that feeling of that one. But I think the tool use and the fire use and all that sort of stuff that automatically eliminates home erectus from being what the Yaui probably is because fire and tool use. To me, I could be wrong, but to me seems like too useful of a adaptation to get rid of once you obtain it. So there aren't stories of yaoi's, you know, doing flint napping and making spears and controlling fire, so I don't think that's a good
candidate for them. Hello from South Africa, A big fan of the podcast. Here all the way on the tip of the continent. I have a fun fact and a question for you, gentlemen. So the fun fact is is that the indigenous peoples of South Africa have many myths and legends about a small hairy man known as a tacolosh. The Tokolosh is known as a trickster and someone or something that can be sometimes used for nefarious purposes by witches and
warlocks. And then my question for Cliff, Bobo and Matt Well let's not forget him is the paleontology. In the paleontological world, there have been issues around fossils falling into the hands of private collectors and never being available for scientific study or research. And the question that I have is what stories or rumors or reports have you guys come across of perhaps samples or even who knows, spacimens which have fallen into the hands of private collectors and maybe we'll never see
the light of day. Thanks guys, really love the podcast, Keep it up. The first thing that comes to mind is the vast majority of Bigfooters don't share their stuff at all, really, it seems. And that's not necessarily because they're selfish or anything like that. Otherwise, in some cases people
protective protect their finds feverishly and don't let anybody else see them. And I think those people are very often the ones who probably either have you know, cast human prints, or don't like the scrutiny of other people and their opinions and that sort of or maybe are afraid that their stuff will come to light as not true or something like that. I know, it seems like a
lot of people collect stories about their encounters of sasquatches, for example. And I'm not saying that this is an example of what this gentleman's asking for, but stories are a very safe way to show other people you have in our
actions with sasquatches. Because you don't have to prove anything. You have comfort in the fact that you know this juvenile came on the hill when it was playing with your tent or you know, throwing rope around or building whatever, that kind of thing, because you don't have to prove anything to anybody, Whereas if you have evidence of it, well, then you may have to
face the fact that maybe this you're misidentifying something. And I think a lot of people don't share evidence for that reason because as long as nobody else sees it, nobody else can refute it. But in some cases, other people just like I collect the stuff for my own purposes and I don't care, and I kind of respect that in no way, although I'd like to see it too, you know, And of course I think we've all heard.
I mean, we've talked about it on the show lots of times, and I know Bobo has several stories of this sort of thing where people have photographs or videos or game camera pictures or something like that that they just don't want out there because they don't want the scrutiny or they don't want the attention or
you know, the ridicule and that sort of thing. Yeah, as far as I was, like like those Egyptologists that people like buy looted treasures, you know, ancient treasures, like there's that giant market, I think he was asked if there's anything like that a big Foot. I don't think there's
anything like that was a big foot at all. Well, I think he meant, like, what stories have we heard about people finding fossils or bones or remains and then choosing to keep it in a personal collection rather than like submitting it to an institution or something. Well, the only thing I know about that would be, uh, that's that I not as real as Mike Ruggs tooth. They wanted to destroy so much with it, it would have destroyed the whole tooth to do a test, and he was he didn't want
to do because he thought the technology wasn't up to snuff yet. But I don't know what his deal with that is now. I've been talking to him about it all the years. Dahn. There's so many stories. I mean, the Minaret skull story comes to mind. I know we've talked about that before, but I'll put a link to that in the show notes. I
mean I personally heard stories. I heard one not that long ago that didn't go anywhere, a gentleman in Canada who claimed to have shot one and collected the bones and had some of them in storage and some of them buried somewhere. I mean, those kind of stories occur all the time, but like Cliffs said, they're just stories like no one's. They're not associated with like photos or even a fragment of the bone. It's just people making claims.
Yeah. I literally heard one of those last week or the week before, like in the museum. Yeah, because somebody came in and I know this person, and they shot a sasquatch. They thought it was somebody trying to
break into their chicken coop or something like that. They shot it and buried it back and then like this, there's a very old man who shared this story with somebody about his father killing a sasquatch, you know, maybe in the forties or fifties or actually it wasn't that long ago, thinking about that, when I said forty, it was actually forty years ago to have been
like the eighties or something like that. Yeah, I literally heard a story like last week or the week before about this sort of thing, and I just said, well, he can either come forth and prove the species and spare the lives of all the other ones, or he can go to the grave with this story, and there you go. He just sentenced another one to death his choice. Tell him that, please, And if you want this serious wants somebody to seriously look into this, here's my number. Call
me. But nothing. You know someone who has a lot of those sorts of stories, and I think he told some of them on this podcast, but I know we had a lot of conversations about it off the record, so I can't remember because it's been a couple of years, but it was Ken Walker, the famous taxidermis in Canada. Had talked to so many people who claim, like, oh, yeah, I know a hunter who has shot one or found one, or has bones or a pelt or a tooth or a jaw. I mean it went on and on, and so yeah,
those stories are in abundance. Aiden they just at this stage they're just claims, unfortunately, but they're definitely worth chasing me out. If there's any
story that's worth chasing down, it's that sort of story. But other people have a bunch of footprint casts, and because I'd come across that a lot, because that's kind of what I like, you know, a lot of footprint casts and don't really share them, or they might bring a couple by the shoppers, like this one or whatever, and then but I'm interested in
data behind them, like when and where where they found. And sometimes people are just hard to nail down or don't or don't want to share their store their locations, even though I may even already know where they are, but they don't want to share the data in that sort of way because you know, they worked really hard at it. I understand that they worked really hard.
You know, if you if you if you walk up and down a river all day long and you find three or four fishing holes that always produce fish, I may not want to tell where those locations are either, you know, I get it. But at the same time, I would tell my buddies, you know, I'd tell you guys, and you can go catch those same fish. I think that's important. So I don't know, I say it a lot. Data not shared is exactly the same as not having any data at all. Yeah, That's why I have a museum.
That's why I'm doing the archiving project. I had the I had Joanna or
our volunteer at the museum here. She was here for six hours, eight hours a day or something, or six or seven hours today archiving stuff from the you know, from the Chuck Edmonds collection, the Barbara Watson collection, making a big archive of this stuff, and eventually it's going to go online for the public to utilize, because I do believe it's important to share data, you know, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to do
that with my footprint cast, with my historic collections here at the NABC, maybe even putting some of the NABC exhibits online, you know, like doing like a walkthrough or a talkthrough or something like that. I don't know's I've got all sorts of ideas and so limited time, so we'll see. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back
after these messages. Our first submission is from Matthew Davis and the Finding Bigfoot episode titled Holy Cow It's Bigfoot was the response during the final night investigation, A real Bigfoot. That was probably the best I've heard from the show. What show is that? I wonder? Holy Cow? Yeah, I know, I got to look that up because, honestly, Matthew, I don't think about the up episodes by their names. I think about them by the location. Yeah, we never even knew what the name was. And there's
only one name that I remember, and it's a DRONI loves Joji. Okay, let's see where this Holy Cow It's Bigfoot mysterious video and reports from Utah State University. Oh okay, that was uhle see Moneymaker's hair is short. So that's early on. Let's see when what season? This was twenty twelve, season two March March twenty twelve. Yeah, so that was first that was second season. It had to be second season. That's where we went
to that hardware ranch or something like that. I remember that Bobo oh or the Elkore in the winter. Yeah, exactly. That was on my birthday, I might add, So that was that was twelve years ago, No, eleven years ago, yesterday, No, that's not right. It was that we filmed that in twenty eleven. We must have so episode. Yeah, it was Thanksgiving where we had that rat Thanksgiving that how Yeah, yeah, bear Lake. That was cool. I guess today's two days after my
birthday. So yeah, that was twelve years and two days ago. Interesting birthday. Oh, thank you, I appreciate that. Well, yeah, that was absolutely real. That was an awesome vocalization from that hardware ranch or whatever that was called, and the kind of outside of Salt Lake City somewhere. I don't know where that is, but I imagine our local Utah listeners probably do. That was a great night. That was a lot of fun. It was a great night, except for the snow, because you know,
I don't like snow. But that was a good vocalization and we're pretty stoked to get it. That was one of the better ones that recorded. We probably I probably heard better ones over the nine years of filming that show, But as far as the recordings and how they turned out, that one worked really well. Yeah, because as as any veteran of the field knows what you hear with your ears is almost always better than what you would get on the recorder. Yeah, unless you got a really good recorder, that's
the opposite. Yeah, yeah, like a parabolic or something. Those few times that Tyler balance captured things on pair of all for us anyway, So yeah, that's the real deal. It was a good, good vocalization. We're pretty stoked on it, and there you go. Next question, this one comes from Greg Brush. He asked, did anyone keep one of the
camera backpacks used during the night investigations. It would be a cool addition to the museum, That is true, but I was more than willing to get those things the hell out of my life and stay out of my life. Mine's burned. Yeah, I would love to have one of those because I think it would be really really cool. But at the same time, Ping Pong Productions has those, and they probably recycled them and regurgitated them for other
shows or something like that. You got it, and you gotta do like the original ones where the screws run backwards, so the screws went into your actual bath instead of the other way. Yeah, they really showed their appreciation for us at first. Yeah, they had like these four inch four or five inch long bolts that were keeping things on and they would just go in just an inch or two to the left or right of your spine at various places. It was cool. You could make one pretty yeah, I know,
but wouldn't be the same. I've got some finding Bigfoot stuff up in the museum, like the bat from Lousville Slugger, and I have the map from the organ episode because you know, we're an organ, so that sort of stuff. But yeah, the backpacks would be cool, But also, my museum isn't about finding Bigfoot. Finding Bigfoot was a blip on the screen for me. It was nine years of my life a long time, of course, and I deeply appreciate the opportunity. But at the same time,
I'm onto bigger and better things and TV shows at this point. Man. Yeah, I really think about it. Yeah, Yeah, it was a lot of fun, don't get me wrong. But I think I've done better work since finding Bigfoot. Honestly, I think the stuff that we've been getting here at the museum, that our members know about because you know, they get to see our documentaries, I think that stuff is of way higher value than anything we did on Finding Bigfoot. Absolutely, why don't we take one
last question? It's all you bobs. Last question name Perry Message, good day, love the show. I listened to Bobo's interview on Joe Rogan ton of times and would love to know when or if you both go back on and school him a bit more. Also, when are we going to get Pobo's big book A Bigfoot? Ah? I love the show. Rogan. Yeah, he's not a big fan of the Squatch. He went up to Washington for like a week with these guys and I guess they were like one
of the guys really turned him off, you know it. It was like, I know it all like there were things in the brush that he said these guys had squatched on the brain. They were trying to say all these different things were bigfoot reate and he said, as far as you can tell, they absolutely were not. They were like normal animal sounds and this and that, and he uh, yeah, he got he got pretty when I
left the show. When I left to his studio that day, he was like he kept but like he said, you gotta come back, you gotta come back. You know, you got to come back. And I was supposed to go on like through their times and I this sounds totally stupid, but we were so busy I forgot to call him and to go back and then uh, then he got Then he went out on that with those guys and got totally turned off to the whole thing. But yeah, I think
if the squatch thing breaks, you'd have us on for sure. That's That's one of my biggest regrets in life is that I totally went you know, like with the guys that were telling like melbows the real deal, and I went in pretty hard on the rogant things, saying like this is going to prove it all, you know, and then got egg on the face. Well, that's one of the dangers of speaking about sasquatches at all. If
you talk enough, you're going to be wrong a fair amount. Oh yeah, you know, And as long as you're okay with that going in, then everything's fine. It's always those people that like you were incorrect when you said this back in the days, Well, dud, dude, I'm talking about bigfoot. I'm probably wrong a lot. Nobody knows anything. Yeah, that was the the but that was like a bigger mistake, as you could or you know, the biggest area you could publicly state front, you know,
the last fifteen years. Well, at least you got the big one over with them, smooth sailing from here on out, Bobs, we'll see, all right. Well, I guess that was the last question for Q and A for this month. Actually, no, we didn't even do one in November. I'm a little sad about that. I missed it, So I don't know. Maybe we'll bust out too this month and make it even up, but maybe not, because this is December. Now, this December, we're running out of time this year and we got another year. Today's
November. Yeah, but when this airs, it is not so they won't even notice. We won't even notice. What's that calendar for anyway? So anyway, yeah, that was the last question for our big fit to be on Q and A for right now. We'll do another one of these things soon because we enjoy it. Maybe we even get to a topical one this
month. But thank you all for listening. Sure appreciate it. And now we're going to go record the member section because we do a special member's only Q and A every single month, and if you do want to become a member, you get all sorts of extra time with Cliff and the Bobes. You get like an hour a week or something like that, give or take a little bit. And we're a little bit less editing on the side of Matt Preuitch, which makes for slightly more risky content at times. But anyway,
thank you all for listening. Bobes, why don't you take us out of here? All right, folks, thanks for tuning in, and you know what to do until next week, y'all keep it squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot
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