Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bulbo. These guys are your favorites, so light share, subscribe and raid it five story shot and range on Yesterday and listening watching lim always keep its watching And now your hosts, Cliff Berrickman and James Boobo Fay warn Cliff, what's going on? Man? Anything unusually went on? Oh, I had a kind of a rough night. I
went to bed late, like really late, and then I'll sleep. I was out cold, and we got a pretty good not a big nothing like before, like not that big or we had last year, but we had a pretty good I think it was a four or five. I think they said it was on an earthquake. Yeah, what time did it? What time did it hit? I don't know. I think it was like three fifteen, three thirty something like that. So in the middle of the night. You must have been fast asleep at the time. Oh yeah, I
was. I was out and then I woke up and I was still. I was looking at a seat that we had another one and before that one hit the I haven't noticed this like, I mean, I've noticed it a couple of times, not like people always say. But dude, the animals were going nuts, dogs barking, the cat was scratching at the door. And then I think about an hour and a half later, we had a like I couldn't really sleep. And then we had another one and it was
I think smaller, but it was still pretty good sized one. And then the animals kept going nuts. I thought, shoot, we're gonna get a we make it a huge one. I got my my earthquakes preparedness kit is my squatching kit, you know, like sleeping bags and pads and all that. So I got that. I threw together a box of canned food and stuff, like a couple of big boxes of can food I put on the
upside on the back porch. Yeah, you live in the tsunami zone, man, I wouldn't want to be at your pad and if something like that came up, oh yeah, because I mean I live on a one hundred and twenty year old house on pier and post built on a sand dune. So I mean people they don't know if you're not from an earthquake country, and most of people live in an earthquake country don't live on sand well, a lot of people do. But for how many people are listening to this
around the country. Very few people have lived in a house on sand in a heavy earthquake zone, and it magnifies it so much more well, and also brings out that the problem of what is it liquidfaction. I think it's called where you know, you shake the sand really really good, and then the water gets in between the sand granules and it turns the whole thing into basically quicksand yeah, yeah, and of course you're on top of a big
dune or whatever. I'm not sure if there's a bed rock underneath you or something, but yeah, I'm not sure your your property would be high enough to avoid a tsunami. You know, if these are thirty or twenty or thirty foot you know, waves coming in, you'd be toast. They did every twenty five hundred a year flood, I mean the sunami event. For
the all the building permits out here. There is putting in, like the big wind from the wind energy farms going off short and I'll be built here right here in Humboldt day, like right like half mile from my house literally or a quarter mile actually, and there's a big blue fin tuna farm going and they approved that and they had to get a lot of because Originally it
was a salmon farm. The Norwegians were coming over and so that like they were so worried about, like you know, gmo fish getting mixed in with our wild supply. They had to go to all this stuff, and they said, well, it's gotta be able to survive a tsunami, you know,
because I'd definitely wipe it out. So they did this twenty five hundred and ten thousand and one hundred thousand year float event or tsunami events, and at the twenty five hundred year event, they showed the tsunami stopping eighteen inches from my back door. Oh, then you're perfectly safe our craft. Yeah, like they had it all charted out. That's pretty funny. Well, you know, I just looked up the earthquake situation last night. It looks
like you had a four point eight at three twenty am. You had a four point one at three point thirty one am, so just eleven minutes later, and then about an hour and ten minutes there was another one outside of dunsme or I don't know, it was only three point five. I doubt you felt that one. But then we go back to the coast again out by Riodell. You had a three point one and then another three point one at six oh four and then seven to fifteen am as well, all on
October sixteenth. I mean those are just aftershocks, I'm sure, but still, yeah, they were mild. I mean they were mild, but it got the animals going. That's what had That's what had me so on edge was I never heard them even when we had those huge quakes that the animals were quiet. I mean, like, but last night they were loud, and the animals like, you're not talking about your neighbors. I assume no, Well they're neighbors, they're neighbors. I mean I'm talking like domestic animals.
But I even heard like the shore birds went off last night, which that's rare. I've heard it before, but it's it's rare. Well, I'm glad you're okay if he done a walk around in the house yet to see if he was damaged, because you know, just your your house is kind of damaged anyway, dude. It's yeah, it's that last big earthquake definitely messed it up. More Like I can barely open and close the front door. You got to like pull it really hard and slam it a couple
of times, like try to get it all the way closed. Well, I mean, I haven't been to your house for probably like five or six years now, but when I was there, that corner, the southwest corner was kind of like being reclaimed by the sand dunes. It seemed, you know it is. Yeah, and I know that you have a woman's touch there now. You didn't when I when I watched them, I was there, Creta had not moved in yet, but I would give a woman's touch
there. And but there's nothing she could do about that. She ruined it, don't worry ruined it. In other words, it's nice and clean now and livable. It doesn't got cool stuff everywhere. When you say that, you know, the first thing that came to mind was that the cartman stuffed animal, completely covered and engulfed in black mold that you weren't going to throw out. So when you say cool stuff, you mean like garbage that you couldn't even give to good will, right, yeah, yeah, that must
have been tough to admit. Bobo here, you're a good man. Thank you. I just got interviewed by the New York Times. Oh you did, yeah, yeah, I was a few minutes late for the podcast because of that, and then a quick emergency at work, real fast. But yeah, the New York Times called me second time in a couple of weeks. Actually they called me too. They offered me twelve weeks of a dollar a dollar a week. Oh no, this is this, Perhaps this is
different. They wanted to ask me about bigfoot stuff. Okay, a couple of weeks ago. I guess they have a children's magazine. They're doing an article on that. And they asked me about the subject or whatever, and then I told them what they wanted to know today. It was, of course a reaction from that Colorado train hoax thing. Oh you know, very typical sort of New York Times or actually any media stuff like okay, so what are your thoughts on the video? And I told them, well,
it's a hoax. It's clearly a suit of some sort. And here's why, we don't know who did it. We don't know if it's the RV compnyar of the train itself. We just don't know. But it doesn't really matter in a way. It's the suit. And then then they said, well, why do you think that this the mystery of bigfoot indoors as well, because they're actually there, you know, like the same reason that like this people liking bears indoors, you know, because they're actually there in one
of those things. You know that all the typical sort of questions. So we'll see what they do. They she did not record the interview. To my knowledge, she didn't tell me that. So that's that's always a little concerning. You got you got clip, you got to get to tell them clippers, I'm going to record this interview. No. I know Matt Preuitt does that so when when he's misquoted, he can just put it out there
and let let people know about it. But you know, I didn't have time basically didn't set anything up. But anyway, yeah, so who knows what they'll do, because I'm sure I'll be misquoted somehow, Like God, we had some We had this person from San Francisco in the museum a couple of weeks ago who did an article for it, and she was just going to sell the article, I guess, and she sold it eventually to like Travel Portland or something like that, I believe, or will amn't we I
can't remember what it was. But and when it came out, it misquoted Nico, the manager at the shop. It misquoted him in the article he referred to Bigfoot as he And it's like, oh gosh, that doesn't like it. It doesn't make us look good at all. And clearly, I mean obviously Nico didn't say that. It'd be like if you or me referred to Bigfoot as he. He does this, it's ridiculous and it makes us look foolish. But like singular singularly, yeah, like it's an individual instead
of a species, you know. And so I don't know. I always get nervous, especially doing these larger media outlets like the New York Times or whatever. It's like, oh, what are they gonna do? What they how are they going to misquote? If hopefully they won't. I mean, there are some really good journalists, don't get me wrong, But there are also some journalists that, perhaps through no fault of their own, just because they're unequainted with the subject, are more than happy to propagate the myths on
accident. I try to put the fear in them by telling them at the end, I'm like, well, did you record that by chance? Or are you just going to paraphrase my words. Then they'll use we respond and I'm like, okay, well I did record it. If you'd like me to send you the file that way, They're like, oh, we better not misquote. Well whatever, I'll just put it out there saying that, Yeah, they has quoted me again, but I've done that a couple of times over the years, So well, I guess they We're going to do
media articles things about possibly relating to the Sasquatch phenomena. Yeah, kind of a Clobo episode. Clobo, of course, is our power name, you know, like Brad Jelina or whatever. Clobo is the Cliff and Bobo power name, power couple name. So it's just us today. We're talking about news articles that we've either found ourselves or you've sent us and brought to our attention. And feel free if you want to share news articles that you think
are important and perhaps we should talk about. They don't necessarily have to directly do with Bigfoot, but if we would want them to tie it into Sasquatches somehow, you can send it to us. You can send it to us.
We couldn't be on podcast at gmail dot com or hey, Matt Pruit is there a way that people can upload articles besides just copying a link or something in the contact on our website, or is it just setting us a link and just send a link to either the contact form at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com or just send an email to Bigfoot and Beyond Podcast at gmail dot com. There you go. So that's today. We're going to be
talking about some news articles that we've been gathering. We do this kind of as we go through the news feeds every single day, and whenever there's something good, Bobo and I or Matt, we kind of send it off to Matt Pruitt and he puts it in a file. Then we get to talk about it once a month, or once every couple of months, or whenever we darn will feel like it. It's our podcast, after all, it's our podcast with the whole audience. Yeah, well yeah, it's it's all
of our podcasts. But we're calling the shots and it's us that we're we're blabbing. So we're gonna jump into that. So let's see what the articles are today. Well, let's start with one that grabbed my attention for sure. It's that one. This one happens to be on futurism dot com, but it was all over the news media. It's rather important news. I think it's very very interesting and definitely has something to do with bigfoots perhaps or
perhaps not. Scientists find structures from before home th Sapiens existed. So basically, a pre Homo sapien, a pre human hominym was building something out of wood, and I think that's kind of interesting. This happens to be from Africa. They said it was about four hundred and fifty five hundred thousand years old in Zambia, and it's some sort of wood like wood structure. It was published in Nature Nature Journals, so the whole study can be found there
if you're interested. So basically, they found that these logs had been like notched together, you know, like they had been carved out so they would fit together, kind of like lego pieces or Lincoln logs if you're of my age and you remember what those things are. And that's really interesting because you know, we didn't think that they were doing these sort of things, or
at least there's been no evidence so far. And of course the problem with finding evidence of this kind of behavior is that you know, wood, rots, rocks, that's why you have so many stone tools. You know, these these stone axes, and and you know these chipped away pieces of rock that they use for scraping tools and things. Those don't rode away rocks, you don't really get rid of, but would you do so? To find wood of this age that shows evidence of being manufactured and manipulated in order to
fit into one another is extraordinarily rare. We don't know how common this behavior was, of course, because again there's very little wood of this age. But in this particular case, these uh, these pieces of wood were water logged and so oxygen couldn't get at them and start eating them away, or the microfauna I guess, the microscopic animals and whatever else in bacteria and all that jazz couldn't get at the wood and eat it away because these were so
water logged and deprived of oxygen. So begs a question who did it? I don't know. Could have been any number of species, But my question is our bigfoots. Are Bigfoot's doing this? I don't think so. I don't think so at all. Well, listenings why I opposing thumbs most certainly right, probably if it's from five hundred thousand years ago, that's not that that's really not that long ago. I see who would be the culprits here? You know, I think that's a little late. I could be wrong.
I'd have to look up look up some stuff right now, but it might be a little late for Homo habilists. So we're probably talking about, you know, Homorectus or something like that. And they definitely had the thumbs in order enable to do this. Yeah, I don't know did they? Did they? Bobo? You read this article too, and I start coming to you right now. I've got the article in front of me. I can scan it real fast. But I don't remember them suggesting who it might
have been? What kind of hominin? Do you not what I heard? I heard someone on another interview saying they through and I remember they were talking about Homo n Ladi also, well Naldi was so it was so isolated. The only remains we have from the lady in South Africa, and this was in Zambia. I think, yeah, yeah, that's not exactly though, that this good distance away, but as possible, someone was saying that there
at that same timeframe. But I don't think I think that's pretty unlikely, but I did hear a guy said that they would have been alive at that time, and blah blah blah. Yeah, and of course Homo sapiens. There's even a you know, I was thinking when I read this. Recently, the timeline for Homo sapiens, our own species, has been pushed back
pretty considerably. I think that the earliest Homo sapiens at this point are before three hundred thousand years ago, and that was pushed back pretty considerably just a couple of years ago. It used to be like two hundred thousand, but suddenly now it's over three hundred thousand. If these are four hundred and fifty thousand years old or something like that, maybe maybe they're the earliest of Homo sapiens. Or it could be something like Heidelberginsa's you know, which is very
often like the most recent common ancestor between Sapiens Neanderthals. Yeah, yeah, they were the predecessors to Neanderthals, last common ancestor there, so yeah, yeah, maybe those who knows, who knows, Yeah, because it is pretty recent at the end of the day, five hundred thousand years ago.
It is pretty recent geologically, But what does that really mean. It probably means that these things were staying put, not as they're not moving around as nomadic sort of tribes or something like that, because building these structures took a
lot of time. They would need tools to build it, and you know, they're using rock tools essentially at this point, and so they maybe they weren't as nomadic as the model suggests at this point, which is interesting, Which is interesting, and maybe that's one of the reasons we don't see these structures from sasquatches, because sasquatches seem to be moving around kind of like a
bear. They move around for all the food sources and kind of have a roaming nomad and I want to say nomadic lifestyle because that suggests something but kind of a roaming lifestyle in their territory, and so why would they need something like this. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. I get asked this a lot in the museum. Actually it's like where do they live? Well, wherever they happen
to be. But in this case, these structures are suggesting that earlier hominins or earliest homo sapiens. Don't know, maybe heidelbergenstis maybe erectus, who knows, Maybe these actually lived at a place at least maybe temporarily, maybe a seasonally, don't really know, but it's new evidence, and now that this evidence needs to be incorporated into the model of human evolution here and the behaviors, which of course is why we call it a theory, you know,
the theory of evolution. It's not like we're wondering if it happened. We're just figuring out all the details. There's always some more knowledge to add. You're talking about Heidelbergenstus. Did you see that? Are the anthropologists of that reconstruction of the Heilobergainst's face. You know, when you look at Homo Heidelber against his skull, it doesn't look very human. But yet that reconstruction that was just put out recently, if we're talking about the same one, looked
awfully human. And we also don't know about hair covering either, So I don't know that's one of these things, because there's some people out there that are purported or at least suggested that sat Neanderthals were completely covered in hair, you know, like a sasquatch and not depicted like a human as they often are. But yeah, the heidelber against is reconstruction. That one in particular seemed awfully human to me, like more than an anathoal. Yeah, and
of course Heidelbergast's has huge browridges. It doesn't look like a human skull. So I thought that perhaps they did what a lot of bigfooters are, in my opinion, guilty of anthropomorphizing the species a little bit more than perhaps they should, you know, turning them into humans somehow, because they're clearly not right. I don't know, but there is a there's a the Smithsonians, the Human Origins department at the Smithsonian. They have a pretty good representation of
it. That probably a little closer, but who knows, who cares. We'll never get to see it with our own eyes, so it's all speculation. Well. The next article that we're going to look at is from Nature dot com. The title is Ecological social Intrinsic factors affecting Wild Orangutans Curiosity Assessed using a field experiment. Basically, what makes a what makes orangutans specifically a rangutans in this one study, more or less curious how they're able or willing
to explore unusual stimuli in their environments. And of course this is a big deal because everyone knows apes are intelligent, and everyone knows that intelligence brings about curiosity. The more intelligent people are, the more curious they tend to be. For example, you know, about their environment, and then learning new things and reading books and exploring the world in general. Right, and clearly everybody who listens to us is wildly intelligent, otherwise they wouldn't be bothering to
listen to what us two folks are saying. But anyway, great apes that they're very, very curious animals. But they wanted to see, well, what affects this curiosity, what effects the orangutans wanting to come in and explore things they've never seen before. Orangutans are widely thought to be the smartest, most intelligent of the apes, so that there are perfect species to kind of
poke at a little bit and see an experiment with in this way. So basically what they found is that for most of the time, the orangutans were really reluctant to touch anything new and unusual. But this is interesting, and this is where we can tie this into sasquatches, I think quite easily. Compared to the adults, juvenile orangutans showed higher tendencies, showed they're more willing to explore and approach these novel items in their environments, but they were also
more likely to show signs of agitation. So basically the younger, well the juvenile orangutans would approach these things that these novel things that you know, that
were put out into the environment that they've never seen before. The juveniles were more willing and able, and they approached these items of curiosity more often, and after they did, they were more agitated by them, Which is something that we've been speculating and hypothesizing about with sasquatches for quite a long time, is that the juveniles of the species are the ones who are more apt to come in close to camp, to make mistakes, to hassle you and harass
you out in the woods, basically coming in close because we're items of curiosity. I believe that, Yeah, this is one of these mythologies that's kind of grown up in Bigfoot that everybody says but there's very little evidence for.
But we all we all kind of think it's true. For some reason, and well, here's some evidence that this is true in other ape species, because we're always it seems to me that we're always kind of basing this assumption of ours on human tendencies, because teenagers are more apt to do to go poking around at things they shul probably shouldn't be poken around at all animals,
I'd say, that's true. Well, yeah, I don't know, but it seems to me that we've boys in basing it on humans, like I don't know if the dogs do. I have no idea, really, I've really thought about it, but it seems to be true with ape species, and I thought it was interesting that they get that that they get agitated by
them more often. So like these younger, younger members of the species will come in like what is this thing and fool with it and touch it and look at it real good, and then real well, and then and then they get pissed off about it. That might go a long way. Swarts explaining a lot of this behavior we're observing in the woods, especially without a sighting connected to it. You go out to a spot you're hanging out,
goofing around, playing guitar in the dark or whatever. Just sitting in the dark, or making some weird noises, playing slide whistle, something I've done quite a few times, you know, throwing a rave in the woods, like we did on finding Bigfoot. The younger individuals of the species are more apt to come in for a closer look, and then when they find out what's going on to be upset about it. That kind of a jibs pretty well with the behavior that we've been observing out there. Yeah. Absolutely.
Now, of course, the article does go on to say that the older members like this, the you know, the the adult orangutans, they they mostly just looked. They mostly looked at the apparatus in this case, they would put things out there like an apparatus out there they've never seen it, would just observe it. But they wouldn't look as long either as the young ones. Right, So what could that? Do? We see that in sasquatch behavior as well, Like the adult sasquatches might stay further away and just
observe visually, like seen this before they come out here. They pop up in those bottles, a bunch of them that start yelling, singing louder and louder, and they all pass out cold. The sasquatches no, like the older sasquatches, Like I've seen this gig before. These guys come out here, drink those bottles, get loud, then pass out cold, right right.
And of course something else said that the article said is that the availability of food actually also affected their tendency to observe or explore these situations as well. So maybe if there's less or more food, that could play a role in sasquatches being willing or able to come closer and observe. Yeah, I think if they have a like that's how I said about Sasquatch are such efficient feeders and eaters, and they're so highly adapted with their whatever environment they're living
in. They have the recreational time that they can go observe us that they don't have to eat twenty you know, like they're not trying to eat sixteen hours a day or whatever it is, Like they can probably they get an elk kill, they can. They don't got to be much more gathering food for a while, so they can they can go watch humans or those us
or you know what I mean. Or if they're starving, like resources are bad and tight, than they're going to be more tempted to come in and steal something out of a cooler or a hanging deer at a deer camp or something. Yeah, easy food I think is a nice temptation for them. But of course, you know, think about yeah, your perspective as a sasquatch, if you are one listening, if you if you killed a deer two days ago, you probably still have that deer to feed on, you
know, and you can you have some leisure time. I suppose it's a nice way to think of it, where you can observe these these weird humans that come into your spot at a distance for a while and it won't really affect your life, you know, because what mountain lions, I think, if I remember right, they kill a deer or an elk every week and a half or something like that, every one or two weeks, and they make a kill and then they eat on that, you know, for the
next couple of days or whatever. Sasquatches are probably something similar to that, you know, if they if they're able to take down a deer and elk once every week or two and of course they probably don't even need to because I think a lot of their time is spent foraging on other animal species as
well as the plants in the environment. I think that rodents are a large percentage of sasquatch's diet whenever they're available, or raccoons for that matter, you know, raccoons and skunks and possums and that like that size animal I think is very very often on the menu. It doesn't have to be a deer and elk. I think deer and elk are preferred, but I don't think it has to be them, So I mean, how long I guess the
raccoons a daily thing probably. I think like sasquatches have thrown off those models of because the herd, like we have the world's biggest Roosevelt elk courage here in humblet and del North for a long I don't think it is now maybe, but the herd up to like almost ten thousand and now introduced to like three thousand something less than four thousand, and they were saying it's because the mountain lions were killing like for a while, like the route right in the
core of the park, the mountain lions were killing like an elk every day because there were so many black pop the black bears. They would even get to eat. They would even get to finish one meal before they got driven off of killed by a black bear. I kept telling those guys up there, so you're not these are astounding levels that the mountain lions and bears are
responsible for. Kenny, I just can't believe it. I'm like, you guys are leaving out the biggest predator of them, all the squatches, Like you're not factoring in those those kills or them power scavenging off a mountain lion or like that. I think that's why were your models off well. Yeah, and also remember I think California has prohibited the hunting of the mountain lions
maybe in general, I don't think in general. I think it's just with dogs, no dog huntings since nineteen ninety and the population's exploded, exploded, yeah, which has driven down all of the praise species and cause a lot of problems. I know here on my property where I live, we get mountain lions with a lot of frequency, you know. And last time I haven't checked my cameras in about a month, maybe five six weeks probably, but we got I know that we had a mountain lion walking down our road.
My neighbor got one on a trail camera. That was at the end of September, and I haven't checked my camera since. Who knows what they've been, but they are around all the time. My other neighbors who have who have cougar tags, well they'll go out and hunt these things and they'll take care of it sometimes. But still, once that vacancy is there, it's filled pretty quickly. There's a lot of mountain lions around right now,
the whole country. Oh yeah, probably all throughout the country. Moneymaker is going on about how the deer herds have dropped significantly because the mountain lions are not being able to be hunted with dogs and whatnots, and there's it's the only effective way to get a mountain lion essentially, So those are very lucky, of course. But one of my favorite treats you, money Maker, was one about this ponytail would confuse the mountain lick because they think he has
two necks. Did you say, what's that mean? He said that he was talking about being pre pair and hiking in southern California. Is solo that he said that that's one of the reasons, that's one of the reasons he wore when this is when he had long hair. Is that he put it a pointachell because would confuse the mountain lion? Huh okay? Well, anyway,
I thought this was an interesting article. I love learning about orangutan behaviors because I think a lot of their behaviors reflect that at the sasquatch pretty closely. Orangutans are very smart animals, very very smart apes, and clearly sasquatches are probably pretty smart too, So I find it useful to look into the behaviors of the smartest of the apes to try to correlate them to sasquatch behaviors that I may have observed down in the field myself. So stay tuned for
more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages, all right, so we look at the next one is the next article comes from fizz dot org. That's phys dot org science website, and the title of this article, and of course there's many many different versions of this article out there from other sources, but the title of this one, published on August twenty third is new ancient ape from Turkey challenges the story of
human origins. Yeah, I thought that was a little little misleading in some ways. It actually just talks about there's a new species of ape that they discovered in the Turkey area that's about eight point seven million years old, and they think that this was a basically an early form of ape that eventually led to the early hominins. But this is a long time before. This is,
you know, eight point seven million years ago. You know. You if the hominin line starts with ostralopithesenes, that's about six million years ago or so. There's a couple of millionaires in between here. But the gist of this article is that some people are so putting out there the hypothesizing that the like ape species were very prevalent in Europe. We know that, but maybe they started in Europe and diversified and then later moved into Africa where the hominins
developed, you know. And sure, I guess that is human ancestor in a sort of way. But I thought that the title was a little misleading in that sort of way, you know, because hominins I kind of considered the human ancestor thing to start around the australopithescenes, you know, all that stuff before Oreopithecus and all those others like, yeah, okay, they're ape
species and they gave rise to the hominins later. But you know, where's the cut offline for human origins and all that sort of stuff, because we can go back to worms and single cell bacteria and stuff, and we're related
to them too. You know. In our recent members only episode, we did the first installment of Clobo's Book Club, and I talked about the fantastic book The Real Planet of the Apes by Professor David Began, who argues in that book that apes evolved in Eurasia, that sort of origin point of apes
and the ancestors of modern apes. And as you see, Professor David Began is one of the lead researchers on this particular paper, in this particular find and so I would encourage any listeners to read The Real Planet of the Apes, a great book. Yeah, it's in my library. It is a great book. I've not read that, but I've heard it. Everyone has
read it, says you got to read it. Yeah, But back to the article here, we live in such a time that there's only five or whatever species of apes out there that are recognized, you know, the chimps and Bonobo's and orangutans, gorillas, Am I missing one? I mean humans obviously in sasquatches, but well, gibbons and sims are the lesser apes. Yeah, yeah, they're the lesser apes. But at one time there were
hundreds of different species of apes on the landscape. Hundreds of them existed, many many hundreds actually, and we probably only know a small fraction of those that ever existed. And many of these were in Europe. We have fossils of them from Europe. And these guys are saying, yeah, maybe they diversified there and then later traveled into Africa and giving rise to other species, and including our own ancestors, the hominins in general, australopithesenes, et cetera.
But I think the takeaway here, or one of one of the takeaways here, is that that say, land bridges, we want to call them that. You know, land bridges are a two way street essentially, So people are always focused on, say, the migration out of Asia into North America, but it went the other way too, And in this case, sure, the apes definitely lived in Africa, but maybe that's not the origin,
and they later moved on to Eurasia. Maybe the other stuff was going on in eur Asia and then moved into Africa, made more changes, and then left again. You know these are these are revolving doors of migration, these land bridges and opportunities to leave one continents and go to the other. It's not a one way street. Again, It's another exam sample of human thinking being rather inflexible about the way things are. You got to think bigger.
You got to try to think bigger than you're able to and then see what happens. It's fun. I bet you know. For example, Matt, maybe you know a broubble. Maybe you know, but for some reason, I think Matt would know. What are do you know animals that evolved in North America and then later moved into Asia. Horses evolved in North America and made their way into Asia and then had to be reintroduced into North America. Horses, I think, and camels were here at one time. I
know that that seems like a question for Nico. I'm calling Nico spatafora right now. He's a manager of NABC, is a paleontologist. Hey, Nico, you're on the air with Cliff and Bobo and Matt on a big fan and beyond right now. All right, So I just called the North American Bigfoot Center. And this is Nico spatafora. He's a good friend of mine. He's the manager of the NABC and he is a paleontologist. He does guest spots at AMZI. He's a dinosaur nerd in general. And so we've
got a question. Ico. We Bobo and Matt are on the line with me. You can't hear them because I've got headphones on. But at the moment, we're talking about an article talking was mentioning a new species of ape was discovered in Eurasia and talking about the possibility how apes may have developed in Eurasia and then later moved to Africa, giving rise to hominins. Then later
they dispersed from there. So our question for you, and I think you're uniquely qualified to answer this, and if not, we'll just cut it all out because we have editors. But we were wondering about different species that may have arisen in North America and then later traveled across the land bridge into Asia, because we so often think of the animals coming from Asia into North America. But land bridges are two way streets. So what do you know about
animals that actually evolved in North America and then later dispersed into Asia. Two of the most famous animals that, like most people don't realize because there's no endemic species of the anymore that evolved in North America are horses and camels. Camels originated here in North America as well as horses and migrated over land bridges into Asia and Africa and Europe and stuff like that, and then eventually they
ended up dying out in the last extinctions. So there's no more camels and horses that are endemic to North America anymore, but there are fossils of animal of those animals that used to be here. All right, very cool. Any other any other big, glorious animals you want to share with us before we let you go. That's a tough question. Well, fair enough, that's why we have an editor, So I'll let you go then. All right, Thank you very much, Nico. We appreciate you coming on and
have a good day at work. Man, talkt to you soon, okay, bye bye, Okay. So there you have it, straight from the extinct horse expert's mouth. Yeah, Nico's about Apora, manager of the NABC and paleontology nerd extraordinary. He knows his stuff, so yeah, we appreciate him. Coming on, should we go to the next article? Humans, humans get louder, Monkeys mark more territory. Brazil's pied Tamarin monkeys use scent marking and vocal calls to communicate, but it's getting more difficult for them to
hear one another. It's too loud or too old. Yeah, so what are they doing? What are they doing instead of this more scent markings? Yeah, noise pollution has cause them to use scent markings to communicate so they can compensate for the noise. Taking away with that aspect of it. Yeah, So all primates, even these little guys or is it a tarsier, oh, tamarin monkeys. They are cute little guys to you, aren't they big time? Yeah? But anyway, all primates are vocal in nature.
You know, they vocalize to one another for a variety of reasons, even these little folks, even the biggest of them all sasquatches, or likely biggest of them all sasquatches. But as humans have been encroaching upon their habitat in this various areas, these tamarins have been relying less on their vocal communication and going to scent markings instead. A lot of monkeys have very acute senses of smell, and they can they communicate in the same way. There's like dogs.
Do you know when you take a dog out for a walk. I'm assuming everybody knows this, maybe you don't. When you take a dog out for the walk or something, and it's smelling, smelling the road where ether our dogs have peed or whatever, they're actually communicating to one another. They're communicating I have been here, and even sometimes this is the direction I'm traveling, this is my mood at the time. Dogs can smell. I mean,
as weird as it sounds, dogs can smell time. They can smell how long it's been since the dog has moved there, that moved through the area. There is so much information it packed into the sense of smell of various animals. Dogs are a great example, of course, because you have such an amazing sense of smell, and that this would those go to bears, that sort of thing. There's so much more there than humans think.
Because we're not old factorially oriented for the most part, we've also domesticated our sense of smell quite a bit. There therefore dulled it from our natural state. That could have been an adaptation just for us getting in larger and larger groups, because like people smell like I mean, there must have smelled like
hell back then. You know all that bo and you probably generate some There's some information in there too, though, and even nowadays, you know, like you live in Humble, you know, if you can line at the whole foods or whatever behind a hippie, you know it before you see them. Yeah. Yeah, there's information in smell now, but so much more information the more acute your sense of smell is. I think, I mean,
I think we domesticated and moving into larger and larger groups. I'll butt that i'd something that you're dull in it, so you're not like you're not like getting like God, this guy smells just I mean, it still happens, but it's not as bad, you know what I mean, Like if we had if we if we were like well, dogs like to stick their nose and pooh and stuff, and if we had nose like that, we were like sensitive to human bo and bad breath and like people that don't wipe
properly or whatever, like, you know, make it for a much more violent culture perhaps, but we are sensitive to that. Otherwise, you know, you wouldn't be saying these things right now. We are sensitive to that. But I'm saying like we're sensitive. Just mentioned if our olfactory's senses were like forty times more, eighty times more or whatever, like a three hundred times like a dog, like, we'd be like you wouldn't want to be
within twenty feet of somebody. Some anthropologists listening to this, he's going to go, that's brilliant and do a big have as PhD students work on it. Yeah, and give Bobo, you know, authorship credit. Yeah, that's a smart thing to do. I have it in my head and I don't know if this is accurate, But that also has something to do with being visually acute, you know, like you we're so visually oriented. Maybe that takes up space in the brain or something like that, but I don't
know that to be true. But anyway, where where we obviously don't have the the anatomy basically for smelling other things really really well, you know, and deer and bear and those sort of animals that rely so heavily on their sense of smell, have elongated snouts to increase the surface area for you know, the old factory nerves basically, and humans don't have that. None of the apes have that, oddly enough, and the monkeys do to a much
lesser degree. But in this case, back to the article thing, these particular monkeys are no longer relying on their sense of hearing as much because humans are getting in the way. They're relying on their sense of smell. But now I'm not saying sasquatches are relying on their sense of smell per se, although they have a better sense of smell than we do, because because they haven't domesticated themselves and dulled their senses like we have. You know, they're
still living in the natural environments. They don't eat super sour candies and all that other thing that, you know, take away the subtleties of your senses in a lot of ways, but sasquatches absolutely And by the way, I think I'm the one that submitted this article because one of the things I saw that came to my mind immediately upon reading this article is that sasquatches, just like these monkeys, adapt to human presence in various ways. These monkeys.
They shifted from being old fact I mean, sorry, auditory in nature towards being old factory, old factorially oriented. I don't know, you know what I'm trying to say, set a focus on hearing to communicate, their communicating by smell. Now, sasquatches also do this in various ways. I often say that the sasquatches that are closer to town vocalized less. They're they're much more ninja, like what sort of things have you seen? Bobs? Because
you know in Trinidad we're all sorts of houses. There's bigfoots wandering around out in Blue Lake. They're sasquatches not far away. How do those sasquatches behaviors differ than the ones that you see like way out in the Siskews, for example. I've gotten so few reports of vocalizations from anywhere around Trinidad I've gotten I do get some from Blue Lake. I mean Field Brook, which is
between Blue Lake and Trinidad. It's a little like you know, it's just it's a it's a community, but there's just like a store in a post office and fire station in school. It's not like a town. But yeah, there's I do get vocalizations out of there. But then yeah, you
don't. You don't hear much near the towns at all, like you I, you know, for all the for how many people live right outside of town, you know, like human exposure like for better lack of better words, man hours of like people being in a position to hear versus like out you know, going an hour into the mountains. It's the reports are so much higher frount the mountains and there's so fewer people. It just tells you
that there's obviously a lot more vocalization going on. Yeah, you know there There have been sasquatches on or near my property a couple of times over the last five or six years that I've lived here, and I've never heard of vocalization from here. Melissa did. Melissa heard one once. She heard a whoop, like whoop, just like I do, you know, on the show or whatever. She heard one of those. But I was out of town at the time and it came from up on the hill on the other
side of the spring there. We got a couple are but the stuff that we've heard so far. I did hear one vocalization in that November, right after I moved in and it sounded like that was it. Melissa heard that whoop. And other than that, all the other stuff we've heard are like bangs and knocks and that sort of thing, you know, the more subtler things. And I think that's kind of how they roll when they're close to
town. Not that I live close to town necessarily, but you know, my little valley here that I live in is pretty secluded in a lot of ways. Well relatively, you're close to town relatively, yeah, absolutely, But that that ridge, I think they're moving up and down the ridge on the other side of the river. There goes all the way down from the bull Run area all the way up into Pass Zigzag up to Rhododendron. I've gotten reports from pretty much everywhere all up and down that one ridge, So
I think that's what they're doing. But these these animals, and these are probably the ones that inside bull Run. I'm thinking inside bull Run Watershed because I just I don't live very far from bull Run Watershed. These animals have kind of learned to navigate around the human populace in a way that makes them not not run into very often. There's a handful of siding reports and a couple other couple of noise events, but relatively speaking, the noise events are
kind of few and far between. Considering that I know that we have a resident group of sasquatches around here, you think you'd be hearing them like once a month or once every couple months, and it's just not the case. Like you might hear one or here's you know, reports of whoops or something coming in to the museum from the ridge like once or twice a year maybe. But then again, it's not like they yell a mile from here and
everybody hears it either. There's a lot of river noise and stuff too blocking it, so who knows. But in places where the sasquatches are moving through and you know, stealing a couple of handful handfuls of dog food from the back porch, they're not going to give themselves away, so they obviously change their behaviors significantly around humans, just like these tamer and monkeys have done.
You know what's interesting is that those tamer munkeys were talking about down in Brazil, they're critically endangered because they have such a small area of their territory and it's it's almost all that lies the city limits of Manaos where we filmed Finding Bigfoot our Amazon episode. Like when you see if you're watching the episodes where we get picked up by the big riverboats that pull up into the city we were in, that was that was right there. Those are Those were the
monkeys we had around the hotel. That's great, that's great. That was a great trip too. I really enjoyed that one. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages. Manao's great town. What happened to that guy? You ever hear from that guy who like almost marrying one of the local people, Oh, Jeremy, Jeremy, that was Yeah, he was. He was a madman.
That guy was the best. That guy was freaking wild. He's the wildest dude I ever met through the course of the show though all the filming all around the world, he was the wildest dude by far. Oh yeah, I'm not saying something. I don't think we've mentioned this on the show, but you guys know that David Oran passed away last month, right? Oh I heard that actually now that you mention it, Yeah, yeah, David Oran is he's the ornithologist that and you know it's not just because of his
name either. That we met with in Brazil who had a great interest in the map guada. Oh yeah, yeah, he thought he thinks these things are giant ground slaws. And I guess it's possible, because we did get reports of two different forms of map enguadi, and one of them conforms very nicely to the giant ground sloth. The other one is clearly assass watches some sort of by the way. But yeah, he passed away like a month or two ago. I forgot about that. Yeah, Lauren Coleman put out
his I think his obituary. If remember right, Lauren qutes something all that would I wouldn't know almost any of that sort of Lauren and post it. Yeah yeah, And I wonder if he's written his own yet. I think he did. Actually, I think I talked to him about that, because I said, it's kind of a grim responsibility that he's taken upon himself to write all these cryptosological obituaries. It does a good job. Yeah, I just looked it up here. David Doctor David Orrin died on September seven,
twenty twenty three. Rest in peace, David. He was a good guy, nice guy didn't really have time for the idea that mapping guadis might be sasquatches at all. He can't even wrap his mind around it. No, no, but you know he did take those citing reports that all kind of pointed at the sloth. So, yeah, it wasn't the giant slot. There was the medium sized slot. I've heard the there's the mega one, the giant one, and there's the small one that's like the size of a
grizzly bear. And certainly Brazil is a place in a good place to hide some giant mamma like that. So yeah, yeah, I think I think there was both there. I'm convinced. So there's a there's some type of pominade, you know whatever, some sasquatch type bipedal primate. But I think there could be room for both of them. You know, they're probably low numbers, especially the sloths so much. I mean, they're they're slower, they're they're not as camoed as the I mean, there's there's just way more
likely to get shot than a than a mare. Right. Well, you know, we took reports from people, and some of the reports, yeah, this big thing with claws and it had canines and scary monster looking thing, and then other people said, yeah, it was like a monkey but without a tail, walking on two legs the size of a person. Yeah, so you go, yeah, clearly there's two things going on down there, and there's more than that. For room too had the word mapping.
Guadi gets associated with both. I wish they had a different name from them for them, but I guess they don't. So all right. Well, there you go, a meandering conversation about a variety of news items that have come in the last couple of weeks or a month or something like that. I hope you listeners are enjoying this. If you do love it, let us know. If you hate it, tell us but with nice words, please, And you can you can email us at Big put of You on
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show. It makes it a little bit more interactive for us, and it reminds me that there's actually people listening, because you know, I'm looking at a computer screen talking to a microphone with my friends Bobo and Matt in my ears, and it's a nice reminder that there's seventy thousand people listening right now. So all right, I guess that's it. Well, then we're going to be onto the members section. That's for our Patreon supporters or we got
some kind of fun topics to go over on this one. So yeah, if you're interested, it's five bucks a month. You get an next episode every week. We even bringing that proved on so it's even more of a high IQ event. So until next week, we'll see you here and tell your friends and finally listen, hit five stars in the review, give us a few kind words. We appreciate it, and until next week, y'all keep it squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
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