Big food and be on with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so like to subscribe and raid it. I'm starck s and righteous on USh today listening watching lim always keep its watching and now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay, Hey Bobo, how you doing excellent? How are you just hanging out doing my thing? Do you having a little podcast with you today? Looking forward to it. It's a Q and A as usual. Had a good trip to Michigan last weekend. A lot of good folks
out there. A great little event for the first first first year event, really well run. Was it like a multi paranormal crypted thing or is it just big Foot? It's just Bigfoot. Meldrum and Moneymaker and I were scheduled, but doctor Meldrim isn't doing jobs right now. He's just focusing on his health and getting better, and so Adam Davies stepped in. There's always a pleasure to see Adam. Yeah, yeah, Adam rules. I love that guy, and of course Moneymaker rules as well. It's great to see him.
God, he's the best. It's always good to see him and catch up and find out what's going on and hear about some of the stuff they've been pulling on expeditions and you know, all that sort of things. So it was it was great to catch up with them. Oh you know what, I was going out to Laos tomorrow. We were heading out there. Just found out it burned down, So tomorrow, huh. I would say, go anyway, like worst case scenario, just go camp somewhere else.
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's always there's a ton of places to go. Yeah. I mean, Bluff is historic, but I mean it's not necessarily the best big foot spot. There's lots of other places you can check out bigfoots nearby, you know, and have a very reasonable chance. Well hey, well you know what I keep forgetting that we actually have people listening. I totally forgot that. Yeah, yeah, I forget that all the
time. But that's part of the thing here, you know. That's part of the reason we've been started this podcast is because you and I kind of talk all the time anyway, and people, for whatever reason care. So let's bring them in the conversation. Because this is our October Q and A session for our public podcast. We'll do a members one where only members are submitting questions after this, But for now, let's get rolling with the regular
questions from our fantastic higher than average intelligence listeners out there. So because all of if you're listening to our show, you're clearly person of exquisite taste and high intelligence. So we really really appreciate everybody listening. Thank you very much for all that sort of stuff. And mister Matt Pruitt, why don't you pipe in the first question for us. Good evening gang, Little Dave from Alabama, quick shout out to Matt Prewitt. I read the Phenomenal Sasquatch excellent,
excellent book, Matt. I really did enjoy it. My question for y'all is how come Bigfoot seems to be in the mountainous regions with the exception of Florida. Is it because the remoteness or do you think they were made to live in that style of environment? Just curious of your thoughts. Thank you boys, and y'all keep up the great work. Thank you Little Dave. Well, I think that the Sasquatches are in the mountainous regions for a
couple reasons. I do think it's partly the remoteness, but they're not exclusively in mountainous regions. They live in forested regions more than mountainous regions. I think that they're in the mountains because that's where most of the forest is over much of the habitat. But in areas of the country where there are no mountains are still forests, and we still get sasquatch reports from those places, especially swampy areas, yes, swampy areas, and and of course it all
comes down to the same thing. Food. They those places. The forested regions hold the resources that sasquatches need to survive, and that's why they're there. And of course mountains are great for bigfoots, but I mean their feet are adapted especially well to traversing terrain like that up and down the hills. They're very strong, they can power up and down the mountains with very little efforts. They're very very good at mountains. But they don't need mountains per
se. They need the plant life, the cover, and the food that the mountains and the swamps and the forested regions and whatnot have to offer. And I think that's a that's a different way little Dave to look at this. It's not the mountains, it's what the mountains offer, and mountains and of course the solitude or the remoteness as you put it, I think is part of it as well. They don't want people around because people kind of ruin things, like they pave things, and they build houses and they do
things like that. So I think that that is the focus. What about you, bobs, what do you think? Yeah, I mean I agree with that. It's just where there's food, water cover. I mean, that's where they're at. I mean there's a lot of shrub shrub. I mean it's kind of they'd like to be in places that the shrubs, bushes,
whatever are at least over their head. Yeah, but I'm thinking I'm thinking like eastern Ohio, you know, like like up by Akron, not southeast, because there's mountains and whatever else down there, you know, but out by Akron it's not really necessarily mountainous per se, but there are bigfoots in there. Oh yeah, yeah, they do like the topography, you know, the elevation chains and changes and whatnot. But again that that's where
all the that's where the plants are growing, you know. And whether sasquatches are we don't know, of course, if sasquatches are predominantly carnivorous or herbivorous. I lean towards they mostly eat plant matter and get meat where they win and where they can. But I don't know, nobody really knows, but that you know, they're eating the plants, and they're eating the things that eat the plants, the deer and the rabbits and all that other stuff.
So they're just good at what they do, man, And that's where that's where they choose to live. That's that their habitat of choice. That's where the most food resources are. And you know, think about this too, as far as mountains go. This is kind of a side thing that I don't want to I don't want to overemphasize sasquatches living in mountains because they live
in forested areas more and you know, mountains tend to be forested. But the mountains give a distinct advantage as well, because you figure, like a flat surface, a flat surface that has forest on it, you have a
certain number of square miles or square whatever square units to feed upon. But when you introduce mountains into that, one of the effects of mountains is that it increases the surface area, It increases the surface area on which to feed, because you know, when you raise that flat plane, there's more surface area all of a sudden, so it actually gives them that advantage as well.
Hills and topography in general, mountains and that sort of thing. It increases the surface area on which plants can grow, which increases the food resources for all the animals. So maybe that has something to do with it too, Like I think those different ecosystems like a you know, or a mountain comes down at the bottom there's like a lake, and then pass the lake there's a swamp. I love that there's multiple environmentally, we get multiple food
sources different times. They can vertically migrate it down the mountains. Things in the spring they can follow the bloom up absolutely all right, Well there you go, Davito, Little Dave really appreciate it. I really appreciate your your questions over time. It's nice to have regulars on the show as well. I think that's cool. So thank you very much, And why don't we hop onto the next question. You made a picture book of that of a
phenomenal sasquash prout. I was going to say, Dave, thanks so much for the kind words about the book. I'm just wondering how someone in Alabama wrote a book. Now I'm from the South to them fighting. All those are my nemesis. Services say, beat us in the national title game for what sport? College football? Notre Dame part of the most dominant football team of all time college history, especially modern history. Wait wait, wait,
is that is that the Crimson Tide? Yes? Oh, look at me, But of course you know where I know that from, Bobo when we were down there filming. And now, when we were down there filming, I heard it a lot go tight or whatever they're saying. Yeah, role Tide. You know, I didn't think it was laundry detergent or anything, but because I actually had a connection Steely Dan the song Deacon Blues. Yeah, anyway, I thought that'd just throw it out there, just messing with
your little Dave. We love you, brother again. Thank you very much for the question. But mister Matt Prutt Q up number two high Cliff, Hi, Bobo. I hope you're both having an awesome day. I love the podcast and your work on finding Bigfoot. I'm watching through season one right
now before I go to bed at night. My name is Bing and I live in North Queensland, Australia. It's kind of a mix between Florida and Texas up here, or I guess it's down here from where you goes are, but with flush tropical rainforest, it's actually very squatchy in some places. My question to you, guys is what's the craziest yowee story or report you've heard or read that's come out of Australia. Thanks again, guys, and take it easy. We've been to Queensland. Beautiful area, Holy smokes,
it's great. People ask me all the time, where would you like? You know, where's your favorite place that you went to on finding Bigfoot? And I always say Oregon. That's why I live here. I'm not wasting my time living somewhere where I don't love. But if there is a place outside of my home where I always where I would be willing and thrilled to go back to, it's definitely Australia. It is absolutely fantastic there in Queensland.
Fantastic habitats for yaowei's or sasquatches or whatever, and yeah, you know what you mentioned something. It is kind of like Texas, and the people are kind of like Texans. They appreciate a good barbecue. They'll give you some crap if they like you. Yeah, I found Australia to be very similar to Texas in a lot of ways, oddly enough. But yeah, what was the craziest Yaowi story? There are so many because I think that
the I think that the Yowi research stuff. I mean, nowadays, there's a couple groups out there that are doing really good work and everything, But until kind of recently, I kind of felt that the Yowi research were a few decades behind the bigfoot thing. They were still treating these things as monsters and cannibals and all this other stuff and striking fear and like, oh they're they're dangerous or and I don't know, maybe that's true, but it's not
doesn't seem to be panning out with the data at this point. It seems that the Yaoui, whatever they are, whether they're the same species of sasquatches or something a little different, seems to have most of the habits of sasquatch, you know, kind of shy, and they tend to retreat or look at you if if you're of any interest at all. I don't think that they're the monsters and whatnot. That the earlier Yawi researchers were, we're painting
them as but I don't know crazy Yaoi stories. But you're deeper into the Aoi thing than I am. What do you have to say about that? There was that one where the sniper team was out on there on It was Australian SAX or Special Forces green Bery type guys. They went out, They're on maneuvers doing a exercise war exercise, and this sniper team it's you know,
this thing comes in. They had a ground sensors to that in case theyone approached them like they're set off a little you know, like a little Richter scale kind of thing, you know, like like a draft park when the t rex is coming in and it's all boom. So they were picking something up walking heavy on their perimeter, you know, and they can tell like when it's a kangaroo because that's the biggest thing out there and it goes bump bump, you know, it's like popping. This thing was walking bipedally.
It was big. It wasn't giant. I think it was like six eight to seven foot and probably four hundred pounds, but it was super fast and it would rush them and they ended up they got They were shooting at it all night and they they don't they don't couldn't tell if they hit it or not. They thought they hit it maybe a couple of times, but didn't. It just it was screaming a lot, so they didn't sure if they hit it or not, and it didn't seem to slow it down if
they did, and it was was charging them. Had a built they built up a fire and built it up real big, and it was trying to get them all night long. I mean, I think I think the Alley's definitely have a I think they're definitely capable of making people disappear down there. Well, definitely capable, But I'm not habitually doing so. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how often it happens. But well, I know you're just saying like you think it's overblown, and it's probably it was
overblown, how scared of them they were. But I still think it's like not unreasonable be a little bit afraid of them. Oh no, I say that all the time. You know, these are not your forest friends, as they're often depicted. These are large, dangerous, wild animals and the scariest kind with like an intelligence, you know, beneath but approaching human and with hands hands, you know, that's that's hands don't make a good pet. This is like the worst kind of wild animal in a lot of ways,
and they're very potentially dangerous. You should be very very cautious around them, you know, keep them at a good distance. For example, we almost got this witness on our show. They were arriving their bicycle down to the Plaga kind of near the Queensland New South Wales board within an hour or two of that, I guess, I'm pretty sure it is anyways, maybe it's maybe it's a little further south, but it's famous on the as being like, you know, kind of spooky, creepy place, and I think
that's where this took place. It was the They were riding down the main road like kind of like almost like a highway, but the main road for that area, coming out of the mountains heading down to the coast, and as they were riding along, this big yahwi comes ripping out of the side and it's just growling and just coming at him and start puts its arms up the grab and they were pedaling faster and fasterones thing just just getting up on
him. And then a car came around the corner started honking like when you know honking, just scared and it scared off and veered off, and then there was someone disappeared there and there was a I think it was a motorcycle was found nearby that the person had been on and the person was just gone, no sign of them anywhere. So is that the crazy story you have from from you know, Yawei Land. God, I've heard so many.
There's that one in the book. We talked, well, we talked to Paul Cropper, you know, we went over to couple them like that one where the four guys were chased on horseback the cowboys back in whatever it was like eighty years ago or one hundred years ago. But they got chased for miles and miles and miles and it chased them through the night for like eight hours. And in the morning when they got up it remember they was throwing rocks at them. They had to go past the spot where it was and
it was stand up on the mountain. It was blocking their way out, is the only road out, and was standing out there. And then they finally went road towards it and it just disappeared at the end, but it haunted them all night, throwing big rocks at them, and just that was a pretty scary one. Yeah, but again pretty typical big behavior. This one sounded pretty like the way it was throwing them, it sounds like it
was trying to trying to seriously hurt him or kill him. Are you saying before you don't you don't know anyone's been hit with a big rock by one not a big rock. I know people have been hit by small rocks. Turtle Mound got his rooms broke by that went through the softball sized rock at him like super hard. Oh noah, you know that you mentioned it. I think that. Yeah, I think I do remember him saying that. Actually, yeah, interesting in the hospital. No, I guess I do
know somebody then I love being wrong. Luckily it happens a lot. Oh you know what, This is a little side note. I mean, this isn't exactly an addressing Bing's question here from Australia, but I had a witness in the museum like last week or something like that. Had a couple this week too from Malala, which is great. One of them the Malala stuff happened right before the fire, because Malala is pretty burnout at this point, right by that bridge, right what is it the what is it glenn Avon
Bridge? But I could be wrong. Yeah, something over there. And then another group like last year, has some rocks run him, I guess in Malala. But that's not what I want to bring up. There was a gentleman in the shop who saw one in Oklahoma, you know, a
few years ago, maybe twenty seventeen. He saw it from about sixty feet seventy feet away or something like that, across a small pond, and when he saw it, it was hitting a tree with a stick, and then it saw him and then drop the stick and then walked off in the woods. So but anyway, I thought that was cool. Again, most sighting reports are just where and when. That's the great information unless they're doing some sort of interesting behavior like this one was. And I thought that was kind
of cool. So I just wanted to bring it up real fast. I think that's my third third report. I'd have to check third report of somebody seeing a sasquatch hit a tree with a stick to make knocking noises. For how much it's reported, it's it's incredibly observed, right, So I mean again, I don't quote me because my memory is a little fuzzy. Just my memory is fuzzy on the inside of my brain, just like it's fuzzy
on the outside of my head. But I believe I have three of three reports of them hitting sticks against trees now and three reports of them clapping, so we'll see. But no reports of them going with their tongue or anything yet. But how would you even notice that, I guess if you're looking at a sasquatch. So I've definitely heard another podcast where people who reported them a couple of more than where it was doing that with their tongue. Stay
tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages. When don't we hop onto the next question here? Hi Bobo, Hi Cliff, A huge fan of yours here in Colorado. My question is what do you think it will take to get to the point where we can observe these species up close? Do you think that we'll ever get to the point of being able to have friendly interactions with Bigfoot kind of the
same way that we're able to observe deer or elk from a distance. Thank you so much, love your show Finding Bigfoot, and love your podcast. Keep up the good work. All right. That's Brianna from Colorado. Thank you very much for the question. Sure appreciate it. As far as having a friendly interactions with him, that's where I got hung up on the question.
I don't think that's gonna happen. I think that you're gonna have a lot of neutral interactions with them, but friendly that kind of paints a different picture. And also, I'm not so sure we're having friendly interactions with elk,
you know, that might be a stretch as well. To be honest with you, there may be circumstances in the future after the species has proven to be real at locations where the Sasquatches are frequenting, like probably rural homesteads more than anywhere else, that there might be some sort of interaction that might be extended, I think, and extended interactions in this case might be just
a few minutes at the most. I'm not sure we're going to be able to, you know, walk up in high five of them or anything like that. At some point. I think it's more like giftings, like the best you can hope for, yeah, gifting or maybe doing something of interest that they might feel comfortable, might maybe sitting on the opposite hillside watching you or something. Yeah, I'm not sure what other interactions might be available from them in that sort of way. I'm trying to think. I'm kind of
going through the other large animals. Okay, friendly interactions with brown bears. Well, in all the friendly interactions with brown bears, the brown bears, like the grizzlies, have been taken at when there were cubs and raised by somebody. I don't think that's going to happen with sasquatches. So what else? What are you thinking? Both? So do you have any thoughts on
this? I'm not so sure it's going to happen. If she means like in a research sense, I mean, I'm sure we're gonna when we get better surveillance equipment, like cameras are getting smaller, Like you know, there's way more Bluetooth stuff and Wi Fi. You know, the systems set up where they can capture a lot more stuff. I think that that in a sense will bring us closer and be able to observe more of it and have you know, like non violent or aggressive encounters with like physical you know,
human researchers. If the government somehow got their hands on a wild you known adult, I don't think that thing would ever really, you know, trying to bring into wild male chimpanzee and domesticated, I don't think it's gonna work. Yeah, I'm not so sure that's I'm not so sure that's going to happen. I think if you've got an infant, I think you could do. You could really do pretty well with it. I reckon imagine the stress
of getting an infant, like because you know, mom's not far. Yeah, I don't think you could hold her down, hold her back and then and as far. And they're maybe not with the infant because they may not know any better. But like with any sasquatch has been alive for a few years, there will be fear and resentment in captivity. And I don't want a sasquatch that's around that's afraid or resentful of me. They be studying it, going like they do this and this, and it's like, yeah,
that's what one does. It's been traumatized and completely and removed from a social environment and everything else. Yeah, then you're going to get some you're not going to get like a natural acting specimen. No, no, And you know, the good old studies and the fossy studies and stuff kind of skews some of the possibilities I think with sasquatches, because sasquatches are not these other ape species and they don't have the same habits, they don't travel on the
same size of troops and whatnot. You're talking about maybe two or three individuals in a valley that's you know, five and a half miles long, and that can just pop over the ridge into the next valley that they also kind of own in their own territorial sort of way. We're not talking about twenty or thirty individuals that are easy to track and come up upon and stuff. So I don't know. I think it's just kind of a waiting game. It's like doing something to bring them back to the same place. But even
these long term witnesses are so called habituators and stuff. Some of the ones I work with at least that the bigfoots come by, they're around for a couple of days, and they disappear for a few weeks or a few months. There's one woman up in Washington near the Olympic Peninsula that writes me every once in a while she says, Yeah, they're gone for three to five years at a time, then they come back and around for a few months, and then they disappear again. Now, as possible she's just not noticing
that they're around, because sasquatches are really good at what they do. But it also is possible that she's correct. And she also told me that you she can always tell when they're around because all the possums and raccoons disappear. Yeah, I hear that all the time. Yeah, So I don't know. I think the inner friendly interactions, it's going to be pretty tough.
I think even extended observations, Like if we downshift a little bit from friendly interactions to extended observations, those are going to be exceedingly rare as well. It would take probably a great deal of planning. Now, of course, there's a couple there's a couple of people out there that we know pretty well that have sasquatches on or near their property with some regularity, maybe once a
month or something like that. They notice that they're around, and these people are putting up cameras just surveillance cameras on their house, and maybe a sasquatch will trip one of these. We don't really know. We don't really know yet. The experiment is brand new, as in like a month or two ago, so you know, I'm advising as i'm needed, although these guys pretty much much have it under control, and I'm just looking forward to seeing
the results. So we'll see. Maybe that will yield some repeated extended observations. But then again, extended, I'm tripping up on my own words, because how extended can it be? If the sasquatches are coming near the house occasionally, they're not going to hang out of the house and like go in the sauna or something for a couple, you know, for ten minutes. They're just going to approach the house, trip out a little bit, and
then leave most likely. And that's not exactly extended, probably two or three minutes at the most. We've been grappling with this for a long time. How do you get how do you observe a sasquatch at all with your own eyes or on camera? How do you do that? You know? And so far clearly no one has a good answer for it. Number one's being out there as much as you can. Yeah, to catch a glimpse. Yeah, but then what do you do for the next step? What do
you do for the next step? Yeah, I don't know, Brianna, you know a good question. I'm afraid there is no good answer that I'm aware of yet. But maybe something will happen. I don't know. It's particularly of that one. Well, I don't feel like we did, but I think it's all we have. Yeah, it's not an easy one. Those simple answer, that's for sure. I've got a simple solution all this, Matt Prude, give us a next question. Hey, clipping, but
woa, this is Bazil from New Mexico. I just wanted to get your thoughts on the recently discovered, Well recently in twenty twenty one discovered footprints in the White Sands area of New Mexico, ancient human footprints. And I know, Cliff, you're a footprint connoisseur, and I just found those footprints very interesting in that the toes seem displayed and they almost look fake, as do a lot of skeptics opinions of a certain big foot footprints. Just wanted your
thoughts in comparison with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Tom here from New Mexico is telling us about these footprints that were discovered in white sands and what is it National Park or something like that. It's in New Mexico anyway, and they're there there are they are fossilized human footprints, essentially, and the big deal about them. They're in the news quite heavily at this moment,
and they have been for the last maybe two weeks. The big news, of course is that if they're dating these footprints correctly, it pushes back the presence of Homo sapiens in North America pretty significantly. Like most recently they most folks that the accepted paradigm has been that that sasquatches, that humans have been in North America, you know, fourteen to fifteen thousand years, give or take a little bit, right that another thousand years, you know,
so fourteen fifteen thousand years. But these footprints they use some dating methods here, and these footprints indicate that well, they are human prints, of course, and these things have humans have been here for twenty to twenty three thousand years. And that's a big difference, huge, yeah, huge difference. And of course, I mean, I'm sure of our native listeners are going, well, duh, even longer than that, and then yeah, very
very likely. But of course, but you know, we're waiting for scientists to catch up on a lot of things, and of course are scientists look at evidence. So it's very likely humans have been here for very, very much longer than that, but we're looking for evidence of that. And I
can understand that. I'm an evidence kind of guy too. These are controversial, not only because it kind of upends the paradigm that humans have been here for you know, fifteen thousand years and now twenty one thousand years, Well that's kind of a long time. But I guess part of the controversy is also how they dated these things. They did carbon dating, I guess on some of the plants that were in that strata, if I remember the article
correctly. And so that's a little bit of controversy there, and some scientists are saying, no, you got it wrong. You can't do that. So now they're trying to find other methods narrowing in that date. And I think if they get two or three or four different methods all showing that date, then they really really have something there. And they may have it now.
I just don't know, because these are human prints. But I guess really Tom was asking something about the morphology of them more than anything, I think, but very very interesting stuff. They do look a little funny. And when I look at these, obviously, like my news feed is kind of geared towards what I like, right, just like all of ours is. And when you look at the footprints in the ground, I keep thinking,
you know, these fossilized footprints. I always look at them again and say, you know what, if these were sasquatch prints, no one to believe them because they look so wonky. And I agree, I agree,
I think that's the case. I think that they do look wonky. But it also goes to say something about footprints in general, that a lot of these people who say, oh, that footprint line is fake because the way it looks, well, i'll say it again that these people don't have a lot of experience with footprints, because even these human prints, these are almost sapian footprints. They show longitude and large. The toes are more displayed because
they're not wearing shoes. Obviously they weren't habitual shoe wearers, most likely at least certainly not the shoes that we have today that kind of tame the foot, that kind of bring the foot in and make sure that the toes are doing what they need to do. So but the people who are saying, oh, that's not a Sasquatch print because it looks so different than all the other, well, look at more footprints human or otherwise, especially archaeological finds
of footprints, because those are really instructive on the flexibility of the human foot that has never worn shoes. So yeah, very very interesting find, very very instructive in a lot of ways, especially for Sasquatch researchers, because you can see how flexible even a human foot can be if not constricted inside the confines of a modern shoe. And yeah, they do look wonky, and there is a lot of variation from footstep to footstep as the toes move and
splay and they're slipping and sliding and all this other stuff. And now when you take a sasquatch print and compare it to a human print, it should be even more wonky because human prints are you know, humans have a pretty rigid foot, even these ancient humans who never wore shoes. Now a sasquatch, their feet are I very often say, and I'm maybe I'm only approximately
right, but I know I'm at least a little right. Sasquatch feet are probably almost as flexible as our hands are, and the toes are almost as long as our fingers, if not as long as our fingers. And so imagine a big, soft, flappy, flexible thing like that with some rigidity in structure. Don't can me wrong. It's not like a well to you maybe, but imagine I'm not saying that these things are like, you know, flippers or something like that, but there is structure in there and whatever,
especially the muscles and all that has. But imagine a big, soft, padded flexible thing that can move like your hand can. Making footprints in the ground, there will be a huge variety of impressions shapes of impressions step to step, and these ancient human prints kind of point that direction, even more so because these are human prints that are not as flexible that with humans, wort of have as flexible as feet, and Sasquatch prints are just on
another level altogether. Word word right. Thank you Bobo for chiming in. So yeah, cool stuff, Tom. I think this is a fantastic a fantastic find very instructive, even though these are clearly human prints, very instructive on the study of Sasquatch feet and footprints as something to contrast against. It's very hard to find humans nowadays that don't wear shoes or never really have habitually, very difficult to find those people. So these fossilized footprints are instructive in
that sort of way. Yeah. Well, talking about the age and when people first started getting here, there was a wealthy tribe in Washington State that have their own archaeologists, tribal archaeologists help them. I think they have too them. And they found an old campsite that they said they have ash fire remaine a date to about seventy thousand, seventy thousand years ago. Well, that'd be an exciting find. I hope they publish it out there someday.
This was a long time ago, This was Jeezu. This was in two thousand and four, two thousand and five. Why would they not publish it like this to show that, like, we've been here longer than you think. That's what That's what I didn't get. But they didn't want to bring in They just wanted to They just it was for their own information or whatever. I guess that's how they felt about it. But I was telling them like, this is just gonna do nothing but slid a file all your client.
I mean, we've already been here thousands years. We know that. Like they're like, that's irrelevant for our Wang claims. Yeah, I don't know. I don't understand this idea of like hide it from the scientists, you know, why not just like, hey, let's get validation from these people who have no dog in the fight, and that'll prove a right even more so, Right, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages. So all right, for
we got one more? What have you got for us? Hey, guys, this is Jennifer from Austin, Texas. Been listening for a while and have heard Cliff talk about his theory about a robust paranthropist being the closest relative to Bigfoot, and Matt has mentioned in some episodes and in his book that Gigantipithecus is a better choice for the closest relative. I was wondering if Bobo had any thoughts one way or the other, or if he's still open to
seeing what more evidence shows. Thank you guys for all you do. Can't wait for the next episode. I mean it could be either one of those. That could very well be something we don't even know about it that it's not either one of those. Yeah, I think that I hate the button because I know she specifically has Bobo, But I think numerically speaking, statistically speaking, it's most likely something that is not in the fossil set, the fossil data at this point. Yeah, ninety five chance, we don't know
what it is yet. Well, what are your thoughts on any of that? But what you want to expand on that a bit? Well, just I mean we're going out such little data in the first place, you know, like with Gigano and Paranthepus. But well they found a bunch of more stuff on Paranmppus in the last ten years, right, Clive. Well, yeah, there's a lot of paranthropists stuff. I mean, not a lot. I mean there's not a lot of human ancestor fossils anyway, but there's
a lot more now than certainly there was twenty thirty years ago. I think we have hands, I think we have some feet, but it's still just a couple of shoe box shoe boxes full, right, that's about it. Yeah, yeah, I mean, well more than Gigano. I mean Gigano, may I'm not I don't think Gigano would have more fossils because they've had a few hundred teeth, because imagine we have at least a few hundred teeth
of paranthropists as well. But I don't know, I don't know. I know we have a handful of skulls, we don't have any of those for Gigano. And we have a lot of post cranial stuff for paranthropists as well, and nothing for Gigano. But I don't know. Yeah, I'm not sure extent of what we have at this point. And there's also the problem
of things being found that haven't been published yet. But I know that in my professional library, I have at least one or two books on nothing but paranthropists and the fossils and all that sort of jazz and papers that have been written on this one species or this one genus in itself, and whether that's paranthropists, Robustus or boise I or any of the other ones. So,
but I don't know. I'm guessing. I'm guessing there's probably some sort of a you know, larger species of paranthropists that hasn't been discovered yet, or maybe something that boisee or a robustist or something evolved into, and that's probably
is a brand new species as it went north. If I'm right, and I certainly don't know I'm right, I'm guessing I'm right, and I only go with the paranthropists thing instead of giganto based on the proteonics study and also this idea that you know, paranthropists paranthropians were basically bigfoots already just smaller. And I get that. You look at the photos I've ever seen, like another first line that up was like, oh, case closed. You know.
Then you go back to the Gigano argument and it's like, well, is up in the are familiar? I don't know, I don't think it's probably not either one, and people smarter me I'll figure it out hopefully. Well, I'm still thank goodness for a people smarter than us. Man.
You know, I don't think any of us are making the claim that Sasquatch is paranthropists or is gigantopithecus, and the claim that I try to put forth or at least The proposition I try to put forth in the book is that if you're positing the existence of sasquatch in modern times as something that's contemporaneous with us, it's best to at least have an analog in the fossil record to show that not only is the existence of such a thing possible, but that
it did occur, and it did co occur with our ancestors or early Homo sapiens. And so pointing at those lineages shows that you know, apes fitting this description did exist, and in the case of Gigantipithecus and ape that's close in proximity, in the right place, in the right time, and is also the right size is a good ancestral candidate in terms of either the clade
that produced that genus or the genus itself. And so I really try hard to not say, or to make it clear that I'm not saying that Giganopithecus
Blackie is sasquatch. It could be some other species within that genus, it could be a related genus that we haven't discovered yet, etc. But I think people very often want to simplify that and say that, oh, Cliff thinks Paranthropus is sasquatch or that prue it thinks that Gigantopithecus is sasquatch, and it's just a case that, well, no, we'd have to find something in the fossil record that's an approximation, because it's not a very strong argument
to say, well, we wouldn't expect anything to be in the fossil record like this, because then you're making the argument for existence out of a void or a vacuum, and that's just not a good starting point. But I do think the point that it's probably something that's not represented in the fossil record statistically speaking, is the most likely candidate. Yeah, there's got to be some intermediary steps between what we have in the fossil record and the sasquatches,
no matter what lineage they come from. Yeah, because I don't think anybody would argue that sasquatches are Paranthropus boisei. For example, they're clearly not Parantherus boise but they might be descendants of that with some changes in size and whatever else too. So I don't know, there's I don't know what we really need is what we need. A Giganos skull is what we need, you know. That would be change, that would change the board completely and a
sasquatch skull. Oh yeah, that would be helpful. There's a really interesting project that's going on right now with a number of researchers who've been looking for post cranial remains for Gigantopithecus, and there were some recent cave fines where mini bones were preserved needing extraction needed to be excavated. And one of these repositories is basically in an area that was going to be turned into a highway and they were able to put forth sort of an injunction to delay the road building.
This is in China. The research team was able to put forth a proposal to lay the detonation of this structure in order to build a road so that they could excavate it, hopefully as quickly as possible. And they feel that this cave probably represents the best chance of finding Gigantipithecus bones post crani will remain, so hopefully that'll be productive. That'd be great. Yeah. Now I'd like to see the how the if we had a skull, you know,
as we have paranthropist skulls. I'd like to see how that lines up with the PG film, you know, because that that that that frame from doctor Meldrum's presentations where he lines up the brow ridge, the eyes, the nose, the mouth, the chin, you name it, of Patty as she turns her head from that wonderful mosaic photograph that is available on Bill Munn's website. With the paranthropin like skull, It's just it's just astounding, really
astounding, the congruency. And now, is that just because sasquatches have huge chewing structures and that's what a the cranium of an animal who has that behavior that you know that that dietary niche is that what there's all skulls would look like that It's entirely possible. It'd be interesting to see how that lines up with the mountain grill as skulls actually too. I could do that for something in the future. Maybe maybe I'll get busy on that. It's just an
astonishing congruency between paranthropists parenthropist skull and the sasquatch face. It's definitely worth knowing.
And I did illustrate this in the book, and there's multiple peer reviewed papers to this effect that the closest analog in the fossil record to Gigantopithecus mandibles and teeth is paranthropists, so much so that it was argued for a long time that Gigantipithecus was basically genetically related to paranthropists or somehow the descendant of that, or related in some way that there was phylogenetic continuity, and then later
it was confirmed that no, actually they're both the results of convergent evolution essentially for durophagi, and so they're so very similar again that they were thought to be related. The first taxon that was pitched was gigant anthropists or giant man. I think it's entirely reasonable to posit that the remainder of the skull of Giganopithecus would have been very morphologically similar to paranthropists, and that might also apply
to other parts of their structure, their locomotion, et cetera. And so they're very similar from what little we have to compare. That's why I think, well, whatever whatever someone might like about paranthropists, as far as we know, could equally apply to Giganopithecus until or unless we find something that's markedly
different. Because there is always this misrepresentation of the media of gigantipithesenes as just big orangutans, and the proteomic study showed that they diverged from a common ancestor from orangutans ten to twelve million years ago. That's a long time of divergence, so they would have been markedly different animals. I thought they were in a line between Sheevopithecus and rings. No, they are contemporaneous with the rings.
Oh, they lived at the same time, in the same place as the genus Pongo, and so there are fossil sites where Gianopithecus fossils and fossil rangue co occur, and so they were related species, but they're not between the two their contemporaries. Oh my mistake. You know, we diverged from a common ancestor with chimps six to seven million years ago, and we're markedly different animals, and so you can imagine the sort of differences that would occur
between ten and twelve million years of divergence from that common ancestor. And so I still think that's the strongest proposition, although Paranthropis is fascinating, and if there's any strength to that argument, it's like, well, just ask Gareth Patterson you know what I mean, Like that that really opened my eyes to a lot of things of like oh wow, you know. And so listeners go back and listen to the interview with Gareth Patterson and the discussion about his
book Beyond the Secret Elephants. Yeah, I know, maybe put that in that link in the show notes for everybody there. All right, and thank you Bobo for that comment. The guy putting you back up on top of my harshest critics. I'd like to I am number two, someone who's harsher on me than I am. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. And in keeping with the
theme of Bobo oriented questions, here's the first written submission. They're Bobo curious. I'll go ahead and read this one Bobo, and you can just listen and answer it as you see fit. This one comes from Jeffrey Graham and the question is I am enjoying the podcast, love the show, and the new T shirt makes me look slimmer. I told you guys, I'm not saying Bobo isn't a fox, but what's the story between behind the Bobo cross
dressing episode? Y'all are wild? What's the story? Bobes? Obviously they're less threatened by women because I mean, if you look at who shoots at Bigfoot, ninety nine plus percent are men. There are no no approach women that observe women more, especially women with children. So I was impersonating a pregnant woman, showing that I was fertile and good MANI mature on because they wanted to kidnap me, and we did, and we did, we did. We got those craziest sounds that I mean, it was top five for
me. Were craziest sounds I've ever heard. And it was the craziest sounds flipp you ever heard. So it worked. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. I did look pretty good. No one can question your commitment to novel research techniques. That dress was expensive too. I was trying to find a dress that I couldn't find one to fit me that looked kind of sexy. So I found out that one you should write a proposal to Wally Research grant. Yeah, what's your dress budget going to be? You need
a blouse benefactor? Oh man, what's this charge here? Braziers? That was great. That was great, it was a fun episode. You know what. A lot of people, I'm a slightly more serious answer thing. A lot of people say, why are you guys doing this nonsense and like this ridiculous stuff for bigfoot stuff, and you should get up there and camo and sit in a tree stand for four hours and that's how you get up No one would watch that, I mean at the end of the day.
Yeah, we're doing bigfoot stuff for real, but it's also a TV show and we need to make sure that people are entertained and having fun and enjoying the stuff. That's the stuff that we're doing. That's why we did these outlandish, ridiculous things for search techniques like throwing a rave in the woods or playing bass in the woods. They're all legitimate, though. They're all legitimate
because they draw attention. There's something that the Sasquatches have never seen, never will see again probably, and maybe it'll draw them in and take a look. And it worked better than fifty percent of the time in my opinion. Yeah, and really that's sign Yeah, maybe it is better to go sit in the tree stand for six hours, but no one's going to watch that.
That's boring. Even hunters fall asleep in tree stands. We don't want our audience falling asleep watching a TV show that's fun and with weirdos like us going out and doing real bigfoot stuff and you know what, it's just damn good TV. At the end of the day, it's really good TV and it's fun. And that's the point of television. You know, don't look at television, even our show. Then you know it's completely real. But like even our show, don't look at our shows like the end All be
All Bigfoot research. It's entertainment. That's why we were there. We were doing the best job we could with what we had. And it's all legit stuff. Man, Like I said, maybe we're wrong, but we're not lying. But at the end of the day, it's entertainment and a lot of fun. Just like, yeah, bigfooting should be fun. If you're not having fun bigfooting, what are you doing. I'm not have told this story already when we did the recap of the Georgia episode, but that's been
I think a couple of years ago now. But if you remember, Tom Slickson owned a restaurant in my hometown of Helen and they had this eating challenge, and Bobo used to have legendary epic eating abilities, and so we thought, oh, wouldn't it be funny to do have Bobo enter this eating challenge and then that would be the entrance to sort of meet Tom Slickson and talk about that research. And Bobo, you had said you got so mad at me for even suggesting it. You were like, ain't doing that? I
hate your clown. And then I saw the episode of you in the dress, and I thought, oh, how the tables are turning? That was really the season we weren't Jumping sharkshit season one for well. Tom Slickson ended up backing out anyway, said he didn't want to be on camera, so but hey, you would have gotten like a free HOGI out of it all right, Jeffery, thank you very much for that question. It gave us some good stuff to talk about and Bobo next question is up, take it
all right? This question comes from Hunter Casper message rewatching the show, I noticed, no matter what season or episode I watched, it's always filmed during the winter. Maybe these are there are a few summer ones, but most seemed to be in the winter. Is there a reason watch film during the winter? Months thank you. People would call them the shots were dummies. They hate us. Actually that's not true at all. They loved us.
I don't know if there's a reason for it. I think that maybe maybe the perception is a bit skewed because in mountainous areas where we often were, it's cold from you know, September October to like June, so most of the year, you know, like here in Oregon, for example, like a lot of my big foot spots up you know, by Timothy Lake or something, I can't get to until July, June, July at the earliest
oftentimes. Maybe that has something to do with it, just that the way that the calendar year is in these higher elevation mountainous areas, it's just colder and it appears to be winter more. But I know that we also during the winter time. They very often scheduled us to go to the south, right, but they tried to put us well, the I'll never forget. I've got a big fight with them. They want us to go to Wisconsin in late January early February, and the week that they proposed I'll never forget.
I sent Keith and them guys and the ping pong guys. Screenshot of the weather that week, and it was like negative with the windshill. The day we were supposed to land was negative sixty one. Well, you know, sixty one blow zero. You know. Another thing to keep in mind is just the legendary bad luck that goes with bigfooting, you know, like like the Blue Mountain episode, we shouldn't have gone that time of year.
We shouldn't have gone. I could have told him that, but they didn't consolet us and I remember these like a lot of the producers are like in LA. Like there are these kids in LA And when I say kids, I mean like twenty three year olds, twenty five, twenty six year olds. And they got this title of you know this and that producer because everybody
who works on TV show can be called a producer. And you know, when you're trying to make your way up in the TV game, you really grab onto that title and you throw it around and you fla on it and stuff. Right, So these these very young people with very limited experience outside of Los Angeles, a lot of times they don't realize that, like there's different parts of the country that don't follow this same weather patterns. As Los
Angeles. Well, the network like this. The network like to see us struggle and be challenged and being They loved it when we were uncomfortable because it brought out more story. And I'm like, the story is trying to it big for evidence, so we're gonna get the best evidence, not in freaking five feet of snow and below zero. Yeah. They do like the drama side of it, and they're making TV at the end of the day, they don't. Yeah. Yeah, So maybe maybe that has something to do
with it. Just the weather in the higher elevations is nast year for longer, for larger percentage of the year. We were in Florida. We shot with Stacey and them guys down there. It was we went, we all packed for we were going to like uh, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida. And when you looked it up and said Florida was gonna be in the in the mid seventies with lows in the low sixties, and like Missouri or Mississippi, Southern Mississippi and southern Alabama was going to be the for that time.
You know, the general forecast, like the normal forecast would be expect low's in the was the low fifties and highs in the high sixties. And we got there and it was snowing out us in Florida. Remember it was like record second coldest day ever in history. Well I remember the snowfall in Louisiana. Yeah, ice storm that was like the second one in all history. Yeah. Some of us just like bad big footing luck, because that's that's what luck is. When you're big footing, it's generally bad. Yeah.
So I don't know, Hunter, I mean, that's a good question, like why did they It sucks. It sucked to be there. And summers and summers traditionally the time off for TV, when TV takes break, TV production breaks, and later part of the summer almost always Yeah, yeah, Hollywood shuts down in general in December. No one works in December until
like the beginning of or mid maybe mid part of January. So things start getting planned in January, and then of course they want to get people in the field as fast as possible, and so they usually get us out there in like late winter, early spring, and we filmed for this how long or whatever. Then we maybe do something at the end of summer into fall. So maybe that's just it, you know, it's just like the changing of the seasons and Hollywood sort of schedule that we had to keep. So
I don't know. I mean, and I know a little bit about the whole you know, industry now, but not very much or so many ins and outs and weird things and stuff. I don't know. I'm kind of glad I'm not on the TV thing anymore. Well, this is the last question at least of our regular episode. After this, we'll go to our members and take their question for our members, and if you want to be a member, you can just go to Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com and
click the membership button. They'll tell you everything you need to know. It's five bucks a month. It's a Patreon thing, and we really really appreciate all of our supporters. But this is the last question, and it comes from Kevin W. Dudes, if you had a time machine and knowing what you know now, which historical encounter would you like to place yourself into the PG film Ape Canyon Miners a Native American experience and what would you do in
that case? Thanks? Love the podcast. Well, I mean, I probably have to be the PG film just because if you had a time machine, you'd have to know where and win to go. At least we have that Ape Canyon sounds a little scary to me. And plus I've been to the Ape Canyon, Kevin. It's sketchy. It's scary now, you know, let alone with you know, giant apes throwing crap at him. Yeah, they have to be the PG film just and what would I do? I would probably sit up on the hill and watch it unfold. But I
would also probably cast the footprints before Bob tid miscout there. I'd be riding right behind boggling with my arms wrapped around him, just holding on. You would do that anyway, whether they're going to film a big foot or not. Yeah, excuse right, right, Yeah, well there you go PG film. And I'd probably have to be that. If it wasn't that, then what's your what's your number two? Bobo? Maybe? Uh? For famous ones, I guess it'd have to be like Ruby Creek, Baby,
Ruby Creek. I would want to see Jerry Crew in those footprints. That'd be cool. I got historical ones, well, I mean obviously one was
the longest close this extended view. Maybe Glenn Thomas. I would opt for any of the stories that have any likelihood of being true about people shooting and killing one, because pragmatically speaking, you could either bring it back to the present with you, or you could go to the site, you know, once the human is left, and bury the thing in such a way that you could return to it in present day, unearth it, and you'd have
your type specimen. You know. That brings up something. Somebody came in the shop last week who said that some old dude that he knows ran across a naturally dead one just a few years ago, but he doesn't want to tell anybody where it is. Probably full of crap. Yeah, he's probably lying, because why would you hide that from anybody. It's the most it's perfect. You don't have to kill one, you're sparing all the other ones.
And yeah, it's probably just nonsense, some liar out there. But this guy did come in and said, yeah, well, so I just really hammered that guy, and I said, well, if that guy cares it all about the species, or if you care at all about the species, then you're going to find out where that is, and then you're going to call me or call somebody, go down and get a piece of it.
If it's still there at all, which it probably wouldn't be. It'spent I think he said this is about three or five years ago, so there's a chance something maybe around. But I mean, at this point, be hard to say you're just taking those guys' attention, because I've done that. I've gone on some of those goose chases, and it's like you're just feeding into them, and you know, they're just saying, like, oh, you're in it. I think you're an idiot for looking into it because it's
obviously a lie. But you know they want to play long as long as they can. Yeah, I know, but like every lead like that should be followed until you figure out what's going on. I still go, look, you have to, you have to. And you know that's another thing too, and this applies to something like this, or liars in any situation in Bigfoot or hoaxers or whatever, or being fooled by people, you know, because there's a small number of people out there that only hoax things in
order to show that people are fallible. And I've always thought that like those are weird, weird people. To me, I don't understand that at all. But because of course everybody's fallible, you know. I mean, you can fool me, You can probably fool doctor Meldrum in some rare circumstances, and you can fool people. But that doesn't say very much about me or you, or doctor Meldrum or the researcher. It really says more about the
people trying to lie convincingly like that. It says loads about them and very little about me. That I believed somebody when they were lying to me, right, yeah, to me, I don't know. They have it all backwards, see, I told you, well, you told me a lot of things, mostly about yourself. Yeah. So yeah, this dead thing in southern Oregon somewhere, if I find out about it, I'll go me. I'm not Oh yeah, it'd be great. I'm not expecting to because
I think the guy's probably lying. Because if somebody had something like that, they must see. I mean that this is not my driving force, but for a lot of people, you know, like money is a big thing, they must see that a dead sasquatch is at door to being pretty wealthy for at least for a little while. And if you found a naturally dead one, you would be a hero. If you shot one, you would
be a villain. The rest of your life. But if you found a naturally dead one, you would be a hero, and you'd have a book deal and you can get gigs and whatever. I don't know. I haven't thought through the monetary side of all that, because it's not really I don't I don't want that. I don't want fame for that reason. I don't want fame for any reason. But I don't want that level of attention on me. I'm happy going out there and casting a footprint every once a day
you get the hottest chicken the old folks on. That's true. That's true. Probably look a lot like you dressed up as a chick. I don't want to get my personal life and preferences involved in this. But that's just one benefit form, possibly one of the good things about getting old. I suppose. All right, well that was the last question. That was the last question, and we still have a member's thing to record. Why don't we go off and do that? And again, if you want to become
a member, there's lots of benefits. You get an extra hour or something like that, a week of Bobo and Cliff in case you haven't in case you haven't got enough of us so far. Go to the show notes click that link that matprou Will put down there, or you can go to big Fin to be on podcast dot com and hit the members link. I'm gonna be next week, I guess next week, I'm gonna be in Eastern Tennessee
at the Upper Cumberland Bigfoot Festival. Lucky. Yeah, Well, you know why I'm lucky is because the other three bigfoot folks quote unquote celebrities, although I don't like that word. The celebrities that are gonna be there, Huckleberry Buck and wild Bill from Monsters Awesome. Yeah there, show's ridiculous, but god, I love these dudes. Man. They are just the nicest people in the world. And of course it goes back to that thing I said
earlier. TV is entertainment. Take it as such. Huckleberry Buck and wild Bill are some of the nicest people. All those guys, actually, Willie and Jeff, all those guys are some of the nicest people you can meet. They spend time with every single person that goes to the table, and you know, and hanging out with them after the show and stuff is a treasure, a treasure. I love these people. So anyway, if you
want to go check that out. It's you see Bigfoot dot com. I think you see stands for Upper Cumberland, so you see Bigfoot dot com. And then I'll tell you everything you need to know. So I'm going to be there next weekend. Maybe come out and say hi. Tell me if you're a listening to the podcast, I really do appreciate it. Bobo, you got anything or should we just get out of here? Let's split all right, bobes take us home? All right, folks, thanks again.
We really appreciate you tune it in. We especially appreciate when you hit like and share, spread the word. And if you don't mind, wherever you listen to this, give us a five star. Just click that five Strat't got to write anything if you don't want to, but it helps us other other people find the show and discover us, so we appreciate it. And until next week, y'all keep it squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's
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