Ep. 226 - John Andrews

Big Food and be on with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so like to subscribe and read it five Stach and Me on Righteous Day and listening watching always keep it squatching And now your hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bobo Fay, Cliff, Hey, Bob's what's happening Man? Oh not much. I was surprised you made it back. I thought you were going to be out there cast and it sounded like, well, yeah, I still maybe. Actually that's a whole complicated thing about my life right now. I

just ran home real fast. I can do the podcast from home instead up from work. And as I was driving down my driveway, which you know is like a half mile driveway, I got a call from the contact in between the witness and I. So I got I just called the witness and left a message. I just texted him him to call me back. So

the deal is this for our listeners. A sighting occurred two nights ago, and that would be on the night of August twenty second, out kind of near Carson, Carson, Washington. And I'm trying to gather more information.

But what I have so far as secondhand information that somebody that they heard some noise out back and they thought it might have been a bear or a cougar, So they went out back just to check it out, and they saw a very large man shaped shadow standing on their berm next to the woods I guess like a berm behind their house somewhere. And the guy ran inside, but not before he saw the thing run along the woods line I guess the

woodline and kind of disappear. He ran inside to get his gun. When he came back out with his with his rifle, the thing was nowhere to be seen. He didn't hear anything. He went to go look on the berm and apparently was from what I understand, it's very very steep, and there were footprints basically going up the berm from the woods and then who knows where else it went, you know at this point. So when I first heard about it, I was told that the witness told are the intermediary who

put me in touch with him. Man, you should see the size of those footprints. They're huge, is what he said. So clearly there's footprints in the ground. Wow, you guys had a rain, didn't didn't you just have rain? No rain, but rain is coming in a couple of days supposedly, maybe as soon as Tuesday or even sooner. So it's kind of a race against time. And to complicate matters even more, I leave

tomorrow for Idaho. I'll be in Idaho all weekend, so yeah, if I so basically I have tonight or early early early tomorrow morning to try to cast these things, if I can even get the Witness to allow me to come on his property. So I'm just giving you a heads up and giving all of our listeners and also our guests as well, who will introduce in a minute. I mean no disrespect whatsoever to any of y'all. But if, obviously, if a call comes in from the Witness, I need to

take it. I need to go speak to him, and I may even need to leave immediately because it's it's a it's a bit of a drive out there for me. It's about an hour and a half or so, you know, and I still have to come home and pack for Idaho tomorrow tonight. So there's all that. So yeah, so there's there's school stuff happening. As usual in my life. I live a very big footy sort of life, So there's that. So anyway that I want to give you a heads up in case I do need to leave. But other than that,

man, cool, other cool things are happening too. Got a new mask for the museum. Got a new Native mask. I'm working with a tribal member to try to identify what kind of masks that is. And I think I haven't nailed it down on old one. It's not too old. The guy I'm working with says is probably within in the last twenty five thirty years, and he may even know the artist. So I'm going to try to reach out to the artist to verify that he's the one that did it.

But it's pretty cool, man, It's really cool. Yeah, it's a Zonica mask, but it's unlike any other Zonica mask I've ever seen. It's quite large, it's eighteen inches. I got it for a very good price, which I'm because because the person who I bought it from isn't a Native artist. He just has a bunch of stuff that he's gathered over time, you know, like through a state sales or whatever. But it does appear that this is a legitimate Native mask, and again, I think I do

have the tribe. I just want to try to verify it, and maybe even the artist, so we'll see. But this particular mask is so unusual because not only is it Zonkwa and quite large again, like eighteen inches or something like that, but out of it, out of Zonkwa's head, are two skulls, like almost like antenna, you know, popping out of her head that shaped like skulls. And I asked my indigenous friend what is the meaning of this, and he says, well, it could be a couple

of things. It could be the idea that zonic Wad steals children and maybe those are baby skulls or some sort of children's skulls which has its own macab sort of overtone do it, or just people in general, you know, like maybe because Zonica is the cannibal hairy woman that lives in the woods.

But it also might have an association with apparently like a kind of like a secret society or a secret cult of cannibal people, you know, in the Pacific northwest of in British cl So it may have an association with that. So hopefully I can dig up a little bit more information and learn a little bit more about this, and then when I do learn about it, I can write up some information on it and then add it to the displays at the North American big Foot Center. So yeah, yeah, it's a really

impressive mask. I've never seen another one like it, so I can't be it can't be more excited about having it. It's really great. But what you've been hearing about the fires a Bluff Creek by the way, Bluff Creek is burning, some of it is Yeah, I think it's gonna be all right. Well, I was looking at some stuff the updates today, man like up by Mosquito Lake is burning, and then up just north of Blue

Creek Mountain is burning where the famous Prince happened. And then the fire folks are saying that those two fires are predicted to burn together anyway, So what they're what they're gonna do is try to push the fires down into Bluff Creek, which will almost certainly take out Laos Camp, and then push the fire into the river and try to control it down there. So it sounds I mean, who by by the time this comes out, we'll all know the

outcome. But essentially, at this point, it looks like Louse Camp is going to be a goner. The wind's been really mellowed though. That's the one thing I'm hoping for. And then it did rain up here. Oh that's good. Yeah, I was just I was just at work a little while ago checking out the fire updates and and there's also stuff at Blue Creek and then the upper reaches of Blue Creek as well, so that's problematic. Yeah, I supposed to take Shannon the grow there. Sometimes this coming up,

I said, you better hurry. It's it's not gonna be there. It's going to burn down one of these days. Coming up here, seeing I think, yeah, well, Shannon, if you're listening, you might have be you might have missed your chance, you know, to see it as it was, So we'll see. I hope not God, I'd be a true loss absolutely. But you know, speaking of Bigfoot history, you want to bring our guests in they just so Love said recently without Cliff, and we had a John lined up. But I was like, this is

this is the guy. I said, it's too important to just do a lot like Cliff's got to be here because this guy's a big figure. We respect him a lot. He's been involved for fifty sixty years. Whatever it's been. Well, the information he's still got stuff going on. He just sent me some audio the other day. That's something got just in the last two weeks. Great great researcher and a friend of the squatsing of this show, John Andrews from Washington. John, thank you very much for coming on

big Foot and Beyond and welcome. We're so pleased and honored to have you. Yeah. Well, John Andrews, And as I say, I've been at this longer than I'd like to admit, since I believe it or not, the late nineteen fifties and into the sixties in Colorado. So I started there and expanded my research into several of the Western States and British Columbia as well, and even at one point was all ready to go on an expedition

to Mongolia to look for the almost or the almasty. So, you know, in all these years, while I've had quite a bit here, I've always went to go to other areas more of a worldwide view of what's going on. And we can discuss that later. Well, John, So you said you got into it in the late nineteen fifties early nineteen sixties. Was

it the Jerry Crew incident that got you in it? Or perhaps John Green or what got you going, Yeah, hey, what a guy question, because I've been reviewing my notesure and I just put down the word Jerry Crew. And so you might have remembered in the well Boy Scout article back at that time was talking about Jerry Crew, and I talked about the Gold Road, which you all know about, and I visited and spent about a week back in there here several years ago, starting off with rather a strange incident

even before we went in to that area. So all the things had happened there are you know, the earth moving wheel being picked up and rolled, and then culverts and I worked with culverts, you know, twenty foot long culverts being literally picked up and carried them thrown into you know, a little ravine or something. When I read that, it only took me two seconds to realize something real is going on. It didn't take me long to figure out Bigfoot is real. Now. Did you ever have a chance to meet

Jerry Crew back in the day or did there never made the connection. No, it was some time before we even got into northern California and going up to Go Road, hearing about the history of it and knowing that it was the one of the local bands. I'm won't call him tried. The Indian

bands had actually stopped the Go Road from going into their sacred area. And it was like a movie driving up this nice looked like freshly black asphalted road and seeing the floors slowly en roach upon that road, and then parking and then hiking in from there into a big burn area where we spent four or five or six days. So I never met him, but I certainly had become familiar with that country. Here more recently, I see, and you

were living out in Colorado at that time. You said, yeah, I was in Colorado, and then we moved to Montana after that, and I carried on my research there. Now you've been back then, everybody was in contact with snail mail and phone calls pretty much because that was the only those are the only games in town. Do you remember being in contact with some of those early researchers back of the day, and what were those interactions like?

Well, you know, obvious I'd probably forgotten more than I remember. But Bob Tipmus, who really was a big figure. I think he might have faded a bit now because he's died and as you know, he spent a lot of his life as an ex page up in Harrison, Hot Springs, close to John Green, and I visited him on several occasions on my own and spent hours with him, and he told me some fabulous stories that

I'm sure he didn't tell anybody else. And he also gave me a cast of his big foot that he had in northern California, and so I've got that to this day. You gotta tell us some of those stories, Yeah, yeah, So can you tell us something that Bob told me? Because unfortunately, Bob, to me is this figure that almost nobody knows about because the new generation of bigfooters came in with TV and YouTube and whatnot, and Bob, mister Titmus, is just this figure that we're standing on his shoulders,

whether we realize it or not, you know. I mean, I'm lucky, Bob and I are lucky enough to realize it. But so many people have no idea who he is. And part of that is because mister Titmos never really wrote much down. He recorded things on the back of footprint casts in his beautiful, flowing cursive script, but he never wrote a book. He didn't do very many interviews he didn't really seek attention at all. So Bob is this kind of elusive, mysterious figure in the history of Bigfoot

which we all need to tip our hats to. Sony. Anything you can share with us in our audience about Bob Titmos would be very much appreciated. No, I think, I sure can I give you some insight into him. I really admire that guy, no end. He was small and wiry, tougher than hell. Again, an next American who ended up working for the Canadian government, I think on a wildlife officer capacity. And he spent a lot of times applying the inner the inner passage from here to Alashka in

a sailboat than other things. And he got hurt when he was dragging his boat sailboat onto a beach with an Indian friend and trying to get that boat off of the beach. He badly sprained or injured his back, and from then on until he died, he was in constant pain. And he tried to be civil when he was there and would just overcome him. But he did his best, and he's traveled, he's had some amazing things happened to him. In northern California, and then we took him on his last trip

to British Columbia. Told us about that a little bit. Well, you know, he's spent a lot of time in northern California, and I'll start with that one. And his story there where he got the foot cast was he would buy himself with a dog. And we met him there on one occasion, and that he had by himself traveled up what was then a dry river bed and evening caught up with him, and rather than go back, he laid down in the river bed and covered himself with branches and sticks and

things like that to keep a little warm. And upstream from there, up dry river. From there, he heard these heavy footsteps and they came toward him, back back and forth away from him and toward him on one side of the river. And he could hear that going on all night long. And anyway, he got up the next morning and he came out. But that's the kind of guy that he is. He nothing scared of the guy.

He was absolutely amazing. And he spent a lot of time but John Green, since John Green only lived about a five or ten minute drive away from him, and so they became good companions over the years, So that's how I met him. He told me a lot of stories again that he hasn't told anybody else, I think. And then we took him on his last trip. A friend and I a guy who had a little like a little fishing boat. We drove up there and met him who we were towing

the boat behind us, and we took him up to Bella Coula. Now you have to go to William's Lake from where he lives, which is maybe a four hour drive, and then from there about two hundred and seventy five miles of road into Bellacula. And so we let him drive for a while. But I was never so happy in my life to get him up from behind the driver's seat. He was a white knuckle driver, Well he said, a white knuckle driver. He had white knuckles. Are you guys did

hanging on? Well, I mean he would. He drove like a maniac. He was a fast driver, took corners fast, and we were very concerned about getting there alive. He seemed to have a real man. He was a real man, a mission guy. And so we drove in and then we took this boat. We spent prebbe close to a week he took us back to the white bear, their Caramodi you've heard about up there on Prince of don't say Prince of Wales Island where he actually saw the white bear.

He put up a trap for a big hunter in order to catch the bear, and he never caught it. But while we were up there, on two occasions, I saw the white bear their commode up on the interior of the island, and we were just fortunate at the time we were there to have them walking along one of the beaches, and so I saw the Camodi. There's so many people had been looking for had never seen. And we saw him a day later in another area right up along right up at

this island up there as well. So they're not there's not much known about them, but they're called their Caramodi and their primarily we think a white phase of the black bear. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. I don't know if you knew Bob Titmus for long enough. I don't know when these two first cross paths. But do you have any idea the scope of the evidence that he

lost in the boat fire. No, I don't. I don't know of that other than his stories about being on a boat up in northern Alaska and coming around a band and literally seeing a big foot on the shore, and I think that was the first time he'd seen one, and from then on, you know, he was hooked. So I don't know how much he

lost from the fire. I just know from talking to him the knowledge he has and some of the places he went in his search for the big Foot, including northern California and the Blue Mountains as you know, down in the

southeast Washington. Yeah. I have a number of photographs from Paul Freeman's photo album that was that were shared with me from both Michael Freeman and the Freeman family and also doctor Jeff Meldrum who was given a photo album by mister Freeman, and there's lots of pictures in there of Bob Titmus, which which is really great. Well, you know, and a little a side note is that his son just called me recently and I don't know if he knew I'd made a wax cast of a little bust of a big foot. Yes,

I'm very aware of that. I was talking to Michael about it. Actually great work. By the way, I want to hear some titness stories, like a secret, like something no one's heard. That's a cool Bob Tennis. Well, one of the fascinating ones is, you know, being a geographer, I collected a lot of maps of coastal British Columbia that the Dart equivalent of the Department of the Interior put out, and it's very much like our USGS maps. And I got tons of those inaitions them together and made

marks on things that had happened up there. And one of them dealt with two things dealt with Bob talking to an Indian band and then going into the interior not far from where they were. And it was a hot summer day and he'd hiked up to this He and his dog had gone up on this river and there was a big bluff and it was hot, and so he heated his dog with behind this bluff resting in the shade. Have you heard

this one, No, it's coincidentally. He looks up and there were three bigfoot a good distance away from him, and they were climbing this sheer cliff wall. This description was that the hair was kind of honey like and sort of golden and waving in the wind. And he watchs them for fifteen or twenty minutes climb this sheer cliff wall. And his description is being so much

larger than us and having a reach probably twice that of ours. They were able to negotiate an area that normally humanly we would have had trouble doing or couldn't do it all. And how they would reach up with their hand and find some small protuberance, a rock or a piece of vegetation, grab onto it, lift their foot up, and then with we were not not only even all the toes, but they would find another little ledge and generally it

was a three toes. If we could tell there'd be some extra toes, they would support their entire weight on those three toes and then continue to climb that way, little by little until reached the top of the cliff. And that was three of them that did that. And he and his dog witnessed that. And I've I've got that norton my map. I want to see

that. And the only other story can Tanka. We're down in northern California where he found with a bigfoot, you know, had thrown rocks out of the way, you know, looking for ground squirrels, and we know, you know, you all know about that sort of thing going on, and then putting out a stories of knocks, sometimes very intricate, sometimes long,

and having him answer him exactly. And you've heard of that too, how they're able to instantly play back what you've done, recorded what you said, or a rock cadence that they're able to pick up and repeat exactly just as you have. And so evidently for quite some time he and the Bigfoot carried on this little cross communication with rocks. And gosh, there's there's other stories too, I'll have to think about them, but there was the one to

stand out that Bob. Bob told me well that that is one of the things that he should be credited with, is he's the first person to ever

write about sasquatches doing knocks of any sort. And it might maybe there's an earlier script somewhere, but the first inkling that any of us had was written up in the Bay Area Group newsletter where Bob Timas wrote in and said, yeah, for all the world I was, I'm tracking this thing and Bluff Creek and it sounds like it's hitting a log against another log, and he's

the first person ever record that in writing. Whether other people knew it, I'm certainly indigenous people probably knew about that sort of stuff, but he was the first person to ever write that down and record it for people. So he gets that credit that he kind of is the guy that should be credited with the individual at least that should be credited with discovering about wood dogs. So and as you know, he worked out from what I know, most

exclusively by himself, he and his dog. It wasn't anybody else there to witness what went on when Bob was out in the field. And as you know, we spent went for twice down in the Blue Mountains and you know d Duck Spring, and I've spent time up there and camped a couple of nights at d Duck and other areas in the Blue Mountains. And as I mentioned to you, Jeff Meldram, John Manzinsky, Drek Randall and I spent

several days and nights up in the Blue Mountains here several years ago. I was fortunate to be with them and we found a bed what had been a winter bed, probably built on top of the snow and then just sunk down. Of course because of weight, and I think I've got movies of that as well. So I was fortunate at being able to go in with them and spend some time in the Blue Mountains. I was just in the Blue

Mountains last weekend, actually, So yeah. The aggravating thing is that I got home and I went back to work because I, you know, I have that Bigfoot museum. And I took a sighting report yesterday over the phone, and an elderly gentleman up in Washington somewhere wanted to share his stuff with it. Before you know, he left with it, basically, and I opened my our sighting report book and there's a blank siding report page with a phone number and a name and whatever else, and say call this guy.

And it was from the July thirty first, and it's so aggravating to me. So July thirty first, right, which is a few days before I left for the Blue Mountains. I think I was up there on the fourteenth or something like that. And I remember and so and I said, what's this about. It goes, oh, this guy saw a Sasquatch over by toll Gate somewhere from like fifteen feet away, Oh, by toll Gate on the Highway twenties sixties. No, No, somewhere in eastern Oregon. I

think, dude, I was there like three days. I was there like a week ago, Like why didn't you? And no one followed up with this guy? No one didn't any think. Oh, I was so because we spend days driving around just looking for water where wildlife would be, but we, of course didn't find any. And had I known where a sighting had occurred, like two weeks before, I would have focused my efforts there,

But unfortunately I didn't come to my ears. Well, I mean, you know, as well, hardly any water in that high country, as you know very well up there springs, isolated areas like that, And of course d Duck was unique because you know, it's been amplified, made into a little pond, and it makes sense that bigfoot like any other animal would come and visit that site and leave hand prints and things like that. So d Duck Spring is a pretty a pretty neat area. And do you know

how it got the name d Duck. No. West Summerland, who I spent some time with, and he took us out in the field, and that's when the Forest Service alerted me to West and all the things he had done, and his little wife Peewee. I spent several nights with him.

But the US Forest Service would have forest crews up there, of course, and they would do the work and then at the end of the week or a month, whenever it was a pay period, they would all meet at d Duck Spring and at that point they had to deduct a certain amount from their paycheck, and Nashford got the term d Duck Spring. So there's a little history that I was fortunate to find out about. That's great. So it's tell us about I mean know, West Summerlind often gets overshadowed by Paul

Freeman, when actually they were just partners in a lot of ways. There was no competition or anything between them. They're just partners and they both deserve so much credit for everything that went on in the Blue Mountains for that time period and even before eighty two when Paul saw one and he started his big Foot journey. And tell us a little bit about West Summerlin if you would.

Well. West is a hard baked little half Indian guy. You know, spent some time in the rodeo and doing a lot of guiding in the Blue mountains, and when we were up there, we found quite a few camps that are now abandoned, you know where I think, among others, I'm not sure if he stayed and some of those. So I know he's spent a lot of time guiding. He also had a pretty significant UFO experience,

and maybe I don't know what I everybody knows about that. But West would go up and take a string of horses with him, and he had names for the big foot up there, and I'm trying to remember a lot of detail, but he described him physically watching him, as seeing them the size of the by steps on this particular individual, and he but he got to know them, his individuals up there. And on one occasion, his horses were up there and they were tied up for the night, and something

came up and broke the halters. I mean they just pulled him apart, pulled the rope apart. So he told me that story. He also told me, I though it sounds pretty far fetched, to during the hunting season, he heard some gunshots going on and a few moments later, a big foot came running down this hill and it had been shot in the chest,

and it was blood from the chest. It ran down to a stream and he could hear it down there and evidently it was slapping water on mud on its chest to I guess, you know, overcome the pain and the chest and get some cold water on it. So that was an amazing story that never heard. Yeah that West West told me he had some hair samples he found. If you'd been in West's house, we spent the night there.

What a character. He didn't have any walls in the room. He and pe we spent the night in a bed and it was just opened to everybody. He must not have too many guests there. He said he felt fenced in because he loved the outdoors, and so he felt better when he was

in a big open space. And so you look in this room and here you see, you see the refergerator, you see a stove, You see his living room, and then you see the bedroom and that's where he and then you had a big foot there, and on that big foot that he had made a poster. He had various things in there, and one of them was a hair sample which he gave to me. He found that up on the Tiger Mountain road. He knew that road. Yeah, yeah,

that's a windy road. I've spent time up there. And of course you can reach the Duck Spring by going up Tiger Mountain, and there's a spot up there as you're maybe more than halfway for there's a little pass in there, and of course it would be on the left hand side, and you can walk into this little pass, climb this little ten foot press and Putson walk into this pass. At the time, I think Cramps had gone up

there and they'd gone in there. And I found it where they had made cast bigfoot tracks along this little stream area, and it went on for a good half a mile and I could see tree breaks eight or nine feet up off off this trail, and then the remnants of the cast. What did West teach you about the tree breaks and tree structures well, other than the fact that he thought they were territorial markers, the fact the thing to look for a course would be were they twisted. It doesn't mean big foot,

but always twist them. But one of the characteristics, as you know over the years, is despite the size, would be the height off the ground. You know they can reach up to ten feet or more. And so if this is at the nine foot level and you find them consistently, and they're supposed to point in the direction of traveled often and don't be twisted around

and around several times. That was what West told me. And that's where he found these hair samples, was up in the crotch of one of these twists, and he gave it to me and I had it analyzed by the Skeptical Inquirer. They didn't pay me, but they have a little article on me, you know, happy showing a footprint, you know, the typical

thing. And they sent it back to me with a lab analysis and it came back one as unknown, but also came back as being very human, and believe it or not, as being subject to quite a bit of weathering. Well, that's interesting. This must have been in the late nineteen eighties, if I had to guess, is that were correct? Yeah, that

sounds about right, of course. The telling thing there was the idea of it being weathered when you were working in the Blues and you you were, you know, hanging out with West and those people and the Blue Mountain Gang. That you ever spend any time with Bill Lowry, because I find him to be like another Bob Titmus figure that doesn't really get the credit he deserves because he was so flying under the radar at the time. So did you

ever have a chance to meet with mister Lowry? Well, I did, and as back to West and second said, yeah, he did fill the eclips by Paul. I mean we talked about this that you know, West reserved for some time. He was kind of known locally, you know, as a big foot go to person. Paul comes in and then they started having public get together as in the mall. Maybe you knew about that. I did. Yeah, I know dar Addington very well and she's told me

a lot about those stories. Yeah. I felt badly for West because I think it was kind of sidelined, you know, even kind of a different character. He was very colorful, but I think he felt a bit outclassed by, you know, by Paul, and I think he didn't have as much of a chance to interact with the public as he would have liked to if Paul hadn't been there. Yeah, and of course Paul got those two

pieces of footage of sasquatches as well. And you know, visual components go so far with the public nowadays, it seems so Yeah, they're basically basic entertainment. Of course, Paul did very well with that. As far as Lowry goes, I never met him. I just and I respected him because, as I remember, he was a warden or a law enforcement officer as well. He's like some biologists. I guess he's either a warden or some

official in the in the Wildlife department in Washington there. And so the things he's mentioned to me was or I talked to him on the phone was something about actually seeing one and he was flabbergassed at the sheer size of him. He just said, you would not believe how big these are, he said, I never would have imagined that they would have been a huge when I saw them. He was blown away by their sheer size. Stay tuned for

more Bigfoot and Beyond with Clifton Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. So we've we've spoken a lot about a lot of a lot of the historical thing or some of them, not even a lot, actually just barely the tip of the iceberg, about the historical figures and things that you've been involved in, but you are continuing your research to this day. Tell us about some of the more interesting things that you've been able to encounter or hear

or see. I'm like, have you ever seen a sasquatch, for example, like in the last thirty years or so, because my first exposure to you was at that Bellingham conference back in what was that two thousand and four or five or something like that, and I know that you just had gotten those amazing vocalizations that I still think stand is some of the best vocalizations out

there at the time, and that's what you spoke about there. But certainly you've seen so much, So tell us best about the highlights of the last few decades. If you did. Yeah, sure, well, I'll just say I've never seen one, and I don't know if that's what I call the icing on the cake. It'd be nice to say I did. That doesn't prove a lot to me anybody. And you know, you may say

when maybe you don't see one stopping at night. People have fleeting glimpses of what they think they see, and then as you know, they'll fantasize about it. Sometimes they won't talk about it for months for years because it's out of their comfort zone, and so by that time maybe they don't remember as

much. There's no doubt there's been tons of sightings we know of that, but all the stuff I've seen from bigfoot poopy to the tracks as you know I mentioned it, to twisted vegetation, to rock structures and stick structures, all the calls the one coming up to the tap here a couple of weeks ago. There's absolutely no doubt about their bigfoot existing. And you know, I hope they never catch it. So if I see one, I'll be

happy. If I don't, I'll probably be just as happy. I've come within twenty feet of seeing one, just because up at Bumping, Paul and ever going one direction, and a guy came up from Texas Camp and it was at a place for bigfoot crosses, and maybe you know of that spot of bumping up along the main road just a couple hundred feet what would that be south of Texas Camp, California camp up there, and there's actually a little place in the woods you can look down and see a tunnel, and

evidently that's where the bigfoot crosses. And that particular evening as we are, Paul, they went beyond it. A fellow came around the corner out of the camp and later told us, well, a big foot just crossed behind you and as you know, what they'll do, they'll wait until people go beyond them. And he caught him by surprise when he walked out and he saw the big foot. So yeah, I've been close to it. I've never seen him, but the tracks I've found, some of the poop that

I think was unusual I've found. Did you read that, Scott animalist at all? Well? Wait, wait, wait before you do what Scott, I don't know anything about this. What are you what are you talking about? Well, I've found several over the over the years, you know, up in remote areas where I found one pile that was eighteen inches in diameter

and probably at least a foot high up in the middle of nowhere. Bears, you know, I can have that pattern of eating somewhere, coming back and pooping, And as you know, at picking in a orchards, they'll go over and guzzle down stuff, hardly eating it. They'll come back and all of a sudden they got to take a crap and it's off and with a patter, and they'll go back to the same area. I've got one are where there's eight piles of poops around this tree and it was clearly a

bear that did it. Some of them are huge, but this one is in the middle of forest, there's nobody around, and it clearly looked like a single deposit, not multiple deposits. And it was literally the size of a huge dinner plate and eighteen ins of I'm guessing, and probably a foot high. So we found that back in the middle of nowhere. How much did you pack out? If you had, what'd you put it in? I'll be honest at that point, I didn't pack any of it out.

But the second time I've got it in my freezer, I'm sure by now it is long dead from freezer burn. But I'll put this very remote lake off of the Pacific Crest Trail for Paul and I go. It's about a seven and a half mile hike in and the last a beast hour and a half it's completely off the trail. A hundred came running out of the years

ago. We said he couldn't take it anymore. And we have been back in the three times, and I've got two recording sessions where they come into camp at least twelve times and one night and it just showed up on my tape recorder and you can hear them coming in, you can hear them slap my tent, and you can hear them leave. That goes on for twelve times, at least in one night. I'm sure they're juveniles, probably not that grown ups, probably are watching them out of the forest. Probably be

juveniles just having fun. I didn't listen to that tape for two years thinking nothing happened. So there's a lesson to be learned there. When I listened to it, I was just blown away. Within twenty minutes, I was

hitting the snack. As you know, as soon as they hear deep sleeping, they'll come in, not before that time often, And so you could spend a week up there and think it was most of a wrang time in the world, not knowing you had been entertained up there, maybe several nights in a row, and kind of unsatisfying, but very revealing about bigfoot behave here. Oh about the poopy well up at this lake. I was up higher coming back to the lake, and I found this pile of scat.

Now it wasn't huge, but it was probably maybe it's a foot long. It was gray, kind of a gelatinous, quite gray material looking terry like vegetation. I have no idea what it was composed of. I didn't find any animal matter in it. It looked like tutsie rolls. They had been broken, and they were in a perfect line, like it was stacked Howardwood. They all a straight line, none of them overlapped each other. They were stacked like potsie rolls, and they all were stacked evenly. I've never

seen that. I brought it home, talked to several bear experts. We talked about wolf, we talked about bear. Oh, we knew it wasn't elk. They they had no answer for what I had found. So I don't know what it is. I found the same thing up at at this particular lake I mentioned Eastern Monroe. I found these out the same kind of a bunch of poop on the road in two places. So I got it here by this time. I don't know who could analyze it, but so

I still got that. Well there you know about the DNA study with Darby or cut through the North Carolina University. Right, that's free. All you have to do is fill out up thing online and send it to them and they will get back to you guaranteed. This is the first university sponsored one ever, and they guarantee you will get the results back and with whatever it is. They're not looking for bigfoot stuff, even though they kind of are. We had Darby on as I yes a few weeks ago. They're looking

at unknown samples in an effort to identify what they are. You know, and that's that's even better. That's a perfect setup. You don't want someone who's got a big foot by us, as you will know. And some of the most fascinating books I've read had nothing to do with their interest in bigfoot, but just by the way things that happened to them. So I would trust those people more than somebody with a preaching notion of what they're getting.

I'll talk to Paul because we've got quite a few hair samples. I've got the scatch sample, and I would love to send it to them. It's free. It's absolutely free and university sponsored. And I encourage anybody, especially you, because who have a backlog of samples, who has a backlog, to send stuff to them, because they're raring to go and they're waiting for samples to work on. Well, you just send me the information and I'll be happy to We will do that now the other sideline, I have

one thing lead another. But speaking of museums in general, and includes museums in India, museums here in other places, who are sent remains of primates. In some cases up in India, as you know, they sent to remains of what clearly had been a YETI to a museum there and they never heard anything again. Now I'm telling people this, you can go up and beat the wood forever. Go look in the dusty halls or the museum, go to the basement if they'll let you. And I think we're going to

find a wealth of evidence on what we're looking for in these museums. They get things that they're unclassified then what they are. They may know what they are, and they simply lead them down there because they don't have a rational explanation for them. And if they'll let you in, I think you could get a wealth of information that would help us a lot. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these

messages. So, John, you've brought a number of audio recordings to the podcast here to share with our listeners. Yeah, I've been in contact with your partner, Paul. Paul Graci has been a guest on our show before, and he was telling me he was so excited about these recordings you got that you just got like a couple of weeks ago from Wenacci National Forest. Can you tell us about that? We'll play that well. We went to this spot that had a long history of stuff going on. We camped out

within twenty feet of a road that goes through there. We were there for a day and a half and only two cars drove by an entire time, showing you how remote it is or how unused it is. We got cozy in our sleeping bags, and the next thing we know, we hear there's big, huge rocks just outside of our tent. Paul and I wake up and sleepily say to each other, oh man, did you hear that? Oh yeah, what do you suppose it was? By? Blah blah blah blah. We went back to bed. We woke up knowing nothing else but

that. I took my tape recorder home and gee whiz, I started playing it and within about half an hour before all that took place, you can hear this boom boom boom, boom, boom boom, boom boom, boom boom, right up to our tent. Right up to our tent. We have a lot of rocks and pine cones or something being thrown at our tent during the time we were there. You can hear him clunk plunk hitting our tent during and after the big stomping goes on, and then you can hear

a big moving noise outside of the tent. Uh. And that's when we woke up. And so that would be the one when they're coming into camp. M M. So that was the first thing that happened, and then sometimes during the night. And now Paul tells me he has two more of those long calls. Are they call in a distance that David Ellis brought up and amplified and it's been looped three times? And so I guess that's the

next one you have. Okay, so these are these will be three the same call looped three different times by Dave Ellis, Like he's the guy who analyzed it and made it loop. But this was recorded the same night as the previous recording we just heard. Yeah, yeah, right, okay, very good. Let's let's sake a listen. Yeah, no question about that one. Then yeah, I think it's it's very good, and we might

have some more to add to that. David Ellis told me it's one of the more interesting recordings he has because he said there's so much going on. He thinks there's a language it's being spoken in there. We have the growls.

He thinks at one point it's imitating my snoring sounds that I heard, and they were much deeper and lower, So they're imitating me while I'm snoring, and then when I'm turning back and forth having a rough night of it, that they're taking advantage of that and making a lot of noise in the background. So he's got a ton of things going on during that particular evening when and Paul and are concerned by the way about going back up there because

a lady disappeared. I guess we talked. Maybe he talked about that. No, Yeah, this is a scary part about There was a lady from the University of Washington, an older lady. Gosh, she pries my age makes her ancient, right, So she's up there and this has been several years ago, and she parked right across where we spent the night and she was out. I think in the fall picking mushrooms, and she knew there. If she'd been up there, she wasn't a stranger to the outdoors.

She disappeared without a trace and then never found her, and Paul was involved in the man hunt for her. The dogs traced her to a certain area short distance away, and they lost it and nothing was found. There was no indications of a struggle, no blood, no call marks, and nothing. She just simply vanished. And so when we hear those aggressive sounds come up to our car, up to our tamp, we're just kind of wondering

kind of what we're doing there, you know. Yeah, Paul told me he won't go He says he's going there twenty years by himself, like no words, he said, now he will not go there alone anymore. Yeah, No, we both agreed that were and I think i'd recommend everybody, of course, never go by herself. I used to go a lot by myself when I was ignorant. Getting older now and I've had a good life. If it ends, and you know, I had a lot happen,

but I don't want it to end that way. And we know there's been things are going on in the peninsula I've got stories about another one, as you know, about up at the border of Canada, a horrible thing that happened up there with a sasquatch. Yeah outliers, Yeah yeah. Why don't we save that for the members section because I'd like to hear about those stories because I'm advocate. I'm an advocate, and I've tried to say this as

much as possible that these are not your forest friends. These are not, you know, necessarily benign beings that are, you know, looking out for the good of humanity from you know, the the overseers in the sky, you know, as they're often painted by various people in the Bigfoot community. These are wild animals and perhaps and I don't think they're aout the gid us. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that they're they are they're evil

monsters and devils trying to get it. They are potentially very dangerous. They are wild animals that are very humanlike in a lot of ways, which might make them more dangerous in some ways. I don't think they're out to get us, and as evidence, I always say, look around. If they were out to get us, there'd be very few of us left but I do think there are probably some bad apples out there and they should be treated with the respect that you would give something like say a brown bear something like

that. And I would certainly agree. And the stories I have, which are brief, you know me, I don't elaborate a lot, but the two I know about repeating the public is hard for me because I don't want people to think every time they go out, they're going to disappear. And yet when you hear these stories, if I know the area of which I do know, I wouldn't go there period. You always bring a shark cage. Yeah, all right, you're in it, not them. You know

exactly exactly who you're protected you well, number one, I guess. Well. The other thing is we have to recognize we know nothing about the calls we put out, at least mostly what are we saying to them. Number two is we may be very close to their heart land. They're going to be stretched out if we get too close to them. We know none of these things, and we can put ourself right in harms way, migration routes and things like that and not even know it. And so there's so much

we don't know. We could put ourselves in harms away. Well, you know, well, let's let's let's perhaps maybe end this session and go onto the member session. You can we can hear about those stories and kind of compare notes with some of the other things that we've heard about sasquatches being less than friendly. All right, Well, John, thank you so much for

coming on and spending the last hour with us. We're going to continue this conversation in our members section in just a few minutes and everybody can listen to that on Thursday. If you're a member, if you want to become a member, he can go to Big, Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com and hit the membership button and I'll tell you all about it. But in the meantime, thank you very much John for being on the podcast with us.

We really do appreciate you sharing some of your experiences with us. Well, thank you very much, Bobo, Cliff and Matt. It was a long time getting on here, of those with it. It's been a couple of years. I've been trying to get you going, so yeah, thanks for showing up, John, I know, no, no, thank you so much for having me. Bobo. This has been nice training for me. All right, well, cool, folks. That's John Andrews from Washington State.

He's got some ongoing stuff now. We're gonna hear more from him and Paul. They got some stuff they're working on. We'll be bringing him back on probably the next couple of months. But until then, you guys know what to do out there, y'all. Keep it squatchy. Thanks for listening

to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot Beyond That's an End in the Middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond. The pole were as