Big food and be on with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, So like Shay, subscribe and raid It time station and day listening watching. Always keep it sclidgy and now your hosts Cliff Berkman and James Bobo Fay. Good morning, Bobo. How are you doing? Good morning, Cliff, I'm good. How are you doing? All right? Upstairs at the shop? Another great day at the North American big Foot Center. Interesting people are coming in. It's been a heck of a week. It's the middle
of July. Jo lies the best month of the year. We get a lot more traffic, which is of course is good for business, but it's good for other things as well, like big foot stuff. There's been stuff going on in the local woods. Some footprints have been cast. M gonna go out there today after work to go check out an area again. Um yeah, good stuff, man, cool Yeah. I got out to a happy camp and side valley, got out up there, didn't have any had
some excitement. It was not excitement. I wasn't excited, but I mean I definitely had my attention focused on. We were camped on the side of a real steep mountain and there was a good nice creek from and I had some benches, you know, some level or spots which you need because they're not gonna be on just vertical walls hanging out. But it was like a green spot and burnt out. Eric to that area. Have you been down there since it's burnt out? I was down there last September. I think,
oh, so you saw like just how ravage that place. It's miles and miles, like whole mountains were like miles just torch. Oh yeah, yeah, I did go over the pass. You know what does that pass? The O'Brien Pass O'Brien goes to that goes to Happy Camp. We went the one out of a side valley that goes to the PCT, the present
of Crest Trail that goes over to Applegate and Oregon. All right, well I just went over the O'Brien Pass and it was pretty burnt out up on top of there too, I remember, right, yeah, side valley is even worse. But yeah, O'Brian's burnt out pass. I'm going up there this week again. I got Bart coming in two days, and then my buddy Dummy, he's coming up. He's a professional recording guy. He's an audio engineer. Sounds like a genius. Well, we called he got named.
We were on tour like with BDJ, like Big Dumb Josh and Bargain Music guys. When we were on tour and sounded Urchin. We were in a parking lot. He was like eighteen, I think our nineteen he was. He was doing this sound and we were on a parking lot. We're like going into a hotel or something and we're all sitting there just talking and he goes walking off and he walks right in front of a car and gets hit first day of the tour. And so he just got the name dummy.
Yeah he earned it then, Yeah he does. I saw my other body the day he hooked me up. Um, he's a clothing store manager. He had these uh clean those cool pants were like the Kuhl pants, the cool pants that brand. Huh yeah, he got me a sick deal. Dude, Like I got new pants like twenty bucks each. And I was like, I was like, I want to tell the clip that and I'm like and I was like how. I was like, he's gonna love
this guy's name. His names flat Earth, Andy, flat Earth, and well, most of your friends have an adjective or something or some sort of strange nown and then their proper nown. I get him all of those names too, usually although one guy has his name and then the like Jesse legend, so that he kind of flip flopped a that for a little variety. That's nice. Yeah, so yeah, I get now. So he's bringing like a portable recording uh set up, and he's so we're gonna meet him
and Barter are gonna go out and do a little squats. And then we got Larry's memorial on Saturday, and then I got to do a live call in to the Smoking Out in Bigfoot conference. They're doing a Bobo lookalike contest. I hope you win. It's gonna be a fat Bobo and now bobo, so there's gonna be two categories. I don't know. I don't know if people even know about it, if they're how many people only be like one or two people to even show up forks out. I don't think people
really know about it. I don't know. I don't know. I mean I put it out on my I didn't put it out. I didn't put the Bobo lookalike contest on my Facebook. But the people are going to the gig. I have a lot of people, you know, because I'm speaking there. Moneymaker is going to be there, Matt Prue, It's going to be at my table, Selma's book and autograph copies of his book. Rene's I think going to be there as well. Yeah. So this should be
pretty well attended. And I think that people at the end of the day like they'll join the Bobo lookalike contest, whether they look like Bobo or not. Oh, I forgot to mention I did make it to Ape Canyon and back. Oh yeah, I got a message from Mark Marcel saying I missed it, but I can go with them when he goes in September. Yeah. It's not an easy walk, man, I'll tell you. And you
know, I've been down to the cabin site. I was down there in two thousan fifteen Craig Flippy and I when Mark and Brad went down there, and and I didn't get all the way down to the cabin site this time,
because I guess just old age overtok me. I got about two thirds of the way to down and there was this one point where Mark, you know, Mark and Brad have been down there half dozen or eight times apiece, right, um, And there's this one point you got to tie off to this weird tree that's hard to get to and you just like to kind of walk over the edge. And I couldn't see where I was going, and I said, you know what, man, I've been down there, screw this. And what really did it for me is I was on this
this this knob at about thirty thirty degree slope or something like that. It's all gravelly. There's a twenty five foot drop to this other slope down below, and that's where we had to go. And I'm there and I'm looking and there's there's a little gully I guess between these two knobs that we had to drop off into that I couldn't see the bottom of. And you know, fear is always about which you can't what you don't know right, or
if you really know it. Well, if I really knew it, I would have, like like Mark and Brad, I would have gone down basically. But I've only been down there once and it was eight years ago or something. I mean, if it really does something, I mean, if you really know something, might have a real good reason to have fear. Well, that's true. That's true. Yeah, And actually I was as Mark went down, because Mark is fearless, dude, he is feared.
He's insane, man. And then the Brad's up there and Brad's done it eight nine, ten times, and I go, Brad, what the hell are we doing? He goes, I don't know, man, why why? Why don't we do this? Why do we do this? I don't understand it. I don't like this either. Well he's nuts, oh he's yeah, Brad's totally nuts too, but he did it. But I was looking down like the ravine that we had to go down into with ropes and I and we don't have harnesses. We just have a rope. You know.
This isn't like some sort of organized thing. This is a Mark Marcelle production. You know. The guy doesn't even match his socks by color, you know. And I love the guy. And that's not a slam, that's just part of his charm. I'm looking down in this gully and I look across the gully and I kid you, not on the other knob,
like the equal knob where I was, but directly across mountain goats. Mountain goats are there, like on this slanted, rough, nasty, crumbly basalt terrain looking at us, and it's like I can almost see their thought bubbles, like what are you doing here? And so I turned around and had to scramble back up. And so I made it down like seven hundred feet or more. It's a nine hundred foot drop between where we tie off above
and the cabin site. So I got down about well, actually I probably got down him maybe one hundred fifty feet above the cabin site, but it's only a hundred horizontal feet, but it was at least one hundred hundred fifty
foot drop at least from there. So I scrambled back up like gallum or something like that, crawling to the minds of Maria, and without ropes because they tied off the ropes, I thought so they could access them on the way back up, and I didn't want to screw them, so I crawled up without ropes for most of it, which is probably a dumb mistake, but I'm alive. It was exhausting. I was gonna be one heck of a video for the museum members, I'll tell you that. But apparently it's
probably a good thing I didn't go because Mark and Brad. The only thing of interest that they discovered is that, um, well, they discovered a couple of things, but the best thing of interest is that where Mark thought the spring was but couldn't verify it because there's never any water there. There
was water in it this time. Okay, we know that the spring was about seventy five feet from the cabin and there was this this runoff area, and Mark just always assumed that the hydrology had changed with the eruption in nineteen eighty. Oh, so I could see that. Yeah, it's good. It was a very reasonable assumption, right, But this time there was like a I guess a rock bowl that was filled with water, so that that
kind of verifies. Oh, that is the spring that they initially saw the Sasquatch at and then took a shot at the thing and it went up the draw then over a ridge. So Mark has verified that how far is it from the how far from the cabin? Was it seventy five didn't we think it was like a quarter or a half mile before? No, No, no, it's a different spring. That spring I mentioned to you on the
podcast a little while ago. That's where we have to get water like humans nowadays, you know, like not these inhuman monsters that were these miners at the time, because these miners were badasses. There's just no other way to put it. They were just made of different stuff. They were pioneers essentially. The fact that they would go down there and that it's just insane what they were doing and building down there. Oh, I know, building.
Oh that's another thing too. So when they built the cabin, they felled trees above the cabin up slope from the cabin. Because the cabin isn't even on a flat piece of land. It's on a slope as well. There are no flat pieces of land there. Mark was going to try to sleep there, but he said there was there's not even room for one person on a flat piece of land down there to lay down. That that's how crazy this place is. And these guys are just working down there all the time.
But the trees above the cabin site the cabin's not there, mind you. The cabin is down. I mean who those the eruption perhaps claimed it. But the support beams that were like the foundational support beams were there and they located another one so they so and the support beams were also buried again they were we kind of dug down with our hands and got a good look at him in twenty fifteen, and I know Mark has seen them a couple
other times, but they're buried. This time. They were buried under several inches of dirt. So the mountain is trying to reclaim it. The tree stumps above the cabin that they made the cabin out of. You know, they cut down the tree stumps above the cabin so they fall down into the site and that you don't have to haul them very far. That's just how they built cabins back in the day. They're also buried under rubble and regrowth
of vine maple. So Mark, I mean I talked to Mark when he got out now well because we are a camping together for days, but he would not have been able to discover the cabin site if he went this year because none of the visible markers are there. Yeah, so it's ninety nine years later. We were there from the ninety ninth anniversary of the Ape Canyon attack, and he wouldn't and it just would not have been able to be observed these stumps and whatever else. Yeah, So that was the big find
basically that you can't see anything, and there's this that we end. Mark located the spring, so that was pretty cool. Yeah, that's way cool, and I'm so glad they went in twenty fifteen. Yeah. No, Mark's been going there pretty much every year since twenty thirteen, so he, I mean, he's very familiar with it. He knows the route down, he can all that sort of stuff. And you know, I imagine that if I would go, if I were to go back now that I've been down it, I would go, oh, yeah, okay, I know
how to do this. But God had been eight or nine years or eight years since I've been down there, and I'm thinking, you know, what, what am I doing? As I said in the podcast a couple of weeks ago, I will never forgive my wife for giving me a reason to live me too. Gosh, Darnie, Melissa, I've rid of this guy. Wasn't for you, chick. I would have gone to the Ape Candy A site for no reason. Again, it wasn't for you, but anyway,
yeah it was. It was a great adventure. I'm gonna make a gonna piece together a video for the museum members because we do those videos twice a month. It should be pretty cool. And by the way, I edited together the video with you coming out with me Bob's I saw it. Oh that I give it to you. Good good. It's on paton. Oh that's right, it's on our Patreon, the big Foot Beyond Patreon.
Yeah, and I'm going to edit together another one as well. Um, you know for that when we went to that second spot where we got the hand prints and I showed you that. So that's going to be the new video for July as well. So maybe i'll maybe I'll share that with the B and B patrons as well, just to you know, be generous to
all of our patrons, Museum or big Foot and Beyond. You know, you've gotten better at track, and chiefly because I know when we first started going out, I know I was a better tracker than you were back then. But you've gotten really good. Well. I try to pay attention. It's a it's all about time spent, you know, it is. Yeah, because I don't I don't practice it like I used to. I mean, you got to really work at it. Yeah, I just got to
do it, you know. And I think also being around so many casts all the time has got to help, because um, the footprint casts have really shown me a lot about how feet Sasquatch feed particular interact with the substrate. Reading casts is a skill all to its own. It's separate than tracking, although I think it contributes to tracking ability. But I think just surrounding myself with the data has done a tremendous amount for me over the years. You know, Yeah, I mean just look at you're, Like when I
go to your house, you showing those ones. It's like it's all little drops and knowledge. Yeah. Yeah, and like had double strikes and how the Sasquatch foot interacts with the substrate. Like one of these things that I was just talking to this police officer about. I've got this police officer who's really interested in dramaticlypics, and I'm trying to give them data to analyze.
One of the things that I've noticed in several Sasquatch prints, like probably five or six Sasquatch prints, and I've personally found is that the toes sometimes shove into the substrate in front of the cast, like if there's like a little mound or something, which kind of tells me how their feet come down a little bit, you know, because that's a that's not a direct down or
even a diagonally down sort of thing. For the most part, it really has to have a forward movement to the toes in order for the toes to impress into the substrate in front of the impression, making these little caves for the toes, you know, which kind of complicates casting in a lot of
ways. But also and then of course when they pull out, they seem to have a slight backwards direction and then lift up, which makes sense because if the heels lifting off the ground and the entire forefront is in contact with the ground, you know, from the you know, the metatarsals forward, that makes sense. And then of course that's also where the ridge comes from.
That everybody's familiar with the mid tarsal pressure ridge. That it does push backwards ever so slightly, like a half an inch or an inch at the most, and then lifts up. It's kind of it's it's a very very subtle little thing that I've noticed over the years. You can see some of this in the footprint cast, but you can really see it when you see
an impression in the ground in front of you. Right. Remember, Paul Graves had pretty good pictures of the toes going then diddy, okay, yeah, and then you figure out those when it makes those little tunnels though, like those are way prone to collapse before you ever found it. You know, like if there's any disturbance as a little digs in that that's just going
to collapse and fill in. Usually it seems like, you know, making it harder even harder to identify sasquatch, right, because then it's like just loose dirt on top. She's like, well, this isn't packed down. And I'll tell you Sasquatch prints. I was under the impression, for no pun intended, for a long long time that Sasquatch prints are very very deep and all this other stuff. And it says, yeah, yeah, sometimes if it's wet, yeah, when it when it's wet. And but I
think they purposely avoid walking in such areas. We know that. I think it's a reasonable hypothesis, you know. Um, but they're not all deep, man, like most of the most of the Sasquatch prints that I've seen in the last ten years a very shallow. Um. We have a great cast by one of the one of the one of the greatest unsung heroes in all big Foot Lori Joe Hamilton m she she cast a print, a beautiful just a beautiful Sasquatch print, and we have it on the wall in the
museum right behind the counter there as a learning aid. I mean, I mean, I own the original. She gave me permission to sell and all that stuff. I sell those, but I've only sold one, and like the three and a half four years at the museum's been open, because it doesn't look like anything to the untrained eye. But when I say, well look at this, how can people don't find more prints? Blah blah blah, Well look at this one on the wall. And I said, that's
a beautiful Sasquatch print. And I can see their puzzled look and they don't want to say anything that they don't see what I'm talking about. Best part of the learning process. And then I point out, like look at this, there's the heel, there's the toes. You can see it now, I say, oh my god, I can't see it. Sasquatch prints are
very very subtle. Everything about these animals is subtle. Those early investigators you know, from Bluff Creek and Green into Hindon and all those, but oh, the super deep it must be very very heavy and all the sudden. Yeah, okay, sure they're heavy, But those are exceptions. Those are the obvious prints, and the vast majority of sasquatch prints are not obvious for
a variety of reasons. First and foremost, where they choose to walk, and probably maybe that's not first and foremost, it might be second and the second most. First and foremost the big, soft, squishy nature of their their feet, right, well, you know, we know they don't. We know they're conscious of it because like when people go to the same places, you know, year round with them, they get them and then like
it's it's you know, winner or whatever. It's whenever the time of year you get rained, like monsoons and other places in the summer, like when it's the dry season, everything's bone and dry. They will walk right up an approach on logging roads or dirt roads were in the like when it's they're gonna leave tracts, they won't. They won't walk that way, they won't come in that way. I mean, they definitely are definitely conscious of their
footprints. Yeah, I cast or they just don't give a don't give a crap at all and just go through whatever and things that we don't even think about. Um. And the reason I say that is I cast a footprint in May up outside of Port Angelis and m on the on the property owner that we had on the podcast. Actually I was on that property owner's property because he hadn't been there since December. He's a snowbird now, it lives during the winter months. He's done at San Diego somewhere. And I cast
a footprint on his property in May. And I was walking along the muddy Creek because a couple hundred yards above his house, and I say, can all of this is where if there's mudprints, this is where it's going to be. And I did find footprints, but they weren't in the mud. They weren't in the ferns next to the mud. Yeah, so like it
could have walked in the mud and gave me a beautiful impression. But I walked through the ferns, which was luckily muddy, and I got I got a couple of toes and a really nice impression of a pretty large foot like sixteen inches or more, really neat cast. But it was walking through the ferns either to avoid the mud, so it didn't leave clear footprints, which is very very possible and I think likely, or they just don't care. It's like I'm gonna go. This isn't hard for me. Who cares?
This is the same thing as walking on flat, unobstructive land. Who cares? Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. Well, anyway, should we hop on here? This is a Q and A episode and we've all we've been doing us talking so far? Yea question? All right? Well, yeah, let's go to the first recording, and of course this is a Q and A episode. We do one of these every single month, and all of our listeners
out there, these questions come from you. We are going to do the rest of this episode answering your questions that you submit, and then we'll, of course we'll go to a members episode just from our members as well. But if you have a question for Bobo and I could be about Bigfoot, could be about us and our personal lives, It could be about the Finding Bigfoot show, like you know, did this really happen? Or whatever?
You can ask us. And you can either ask us by writing an email to us or going to our website and then you can leave a voicemail for us so you can hear your own beautiful voice on the air with Cliff and Bobo. So I'm sure those links will be in the show notes. So anyway, let's go to the first question. Let's listen to our first voicemail. Hey, Cliff, Hey Bobo, love the show, Love the podcast. This has been from Indiana. I was wondering when you guys were filming
in Kentucky. I've worked with a guy who said that he found him and his buddies found out where you guys were filming, and I was wondering if he was telling the truth that they went out there and messed up your guys shoot, because he's kind of known to stretch the truth. I was just curious if there was any validity did that, and if something like that has happened before, or if that was the one and only time. I love the podcast. Keep doing what you guys are doing. Really appreciate it.
Thanks. I think your friend's probably lying. Honestly, we have hunters. The hunters didn't know there were hunters shooting all around us. That made us get out of there, but they didn't know they weren't there because of us. Yeah. We shot in Kentucky a couple of times, like though, the one I'm thinking of is when we visited with Tom Shay and met him for the first time. We went to his place, I mean his secret location, um, which was on private land well beat well off the road.
Oh yeah, they weren't there. There's no way, no, there's no way that they were there. And that was that was cops that had that property that they were. The cops were like keeping you know, keeping an eye out on things like they were they were monitoring the road and we were miles in. I mean they were There's no way that we got messed with there. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what I don't remember specifically.
I remember the people shooting that the varmint hunters out there that we had trouble with, they were shooting stuff and yeah, they didn't know we were there. Um, so we were actually in danger of getting shot accidentally. Unfortunately. UM. I don't remember where else we did a night investigation, but I can say this, well, Manteo's cousin's property. Well, there was one. I know. We did Tennessee, then we did Kentucky. We also went out way east Kentucky. I mean, we got messed with
in Louisiana. They found out where we were and they came out. We're knocking on, knocking on trees and stuff. Money many, that's what money Maker wanted. He took maker, grabbed his knuckers. I'm gonna teach them a lesson. There was like twenty rednecks drunk down there with baseball bats, pounding on trees. Oh yeah, like the moneymaker is going to take him on with his bat. There's gonna there's gonna be a bat fight. Dude.
He had no idea what he's getting into. I was like, but they're not gonna be afraid of you if you come in and threatened him. And I was like, okay, then Hamil's gonna have to jump in. Then I got to jump in. You'd all be killed. Yeah, And so that that we had to shut down and move that night. And then there was one other night that was in Louisiana. Right that we said Louisiana, there was one other time where there was something in Minnesota that made us
move. The first our first trip to Minnesota, there was people people that lived by there like that, weren't they just lived there and they started howling back and stuff like that. I forget what that was, and we just we just let's get out of here. We drove like forty minutes away and got out and shot until like daylight almost We had had to do a company move and it took quite a while, Like we were out there all night.
That next we had to move. Yeah, but I'll say this, ben Um, this is a blanket statement for our production, especially after first second season. Second season was a bigger First season was a big learning thing for a lot of reasons. Learning how to make real bigfoot stuff on television was a big part of it. But as we went on, we kind of whittled away all the nerd wells and stuff on our on our on our production team, and it turns out that a lot of our producers eventually became
very good big footers. Chad hammell Um, Natalie was a great big footers. You learned a lot of Yeah, a lot of our production people had Mantooth learned a lot about big footing and what we need to make a real bigfoot show essentially, and also balancing the TV needs, you know, things like light. You can't have television without lights. Because what do you look at basically a TV show without light as a podcast because you can't see You can't see Bob and Eye right now either. Um, but uh, thank
god we were we big footers. And I think you know that big footers are wildly paranoid people because you're always is looking for the hoaxers. I know,
I'm super paranoid about stuff. Bobo's moneymakers off the charts as far as paranoia goes, as far as hoaxing goes, and he and he caught people hoaxing before he you know, but our producers got very good at making sure that we were comfortable with where we could go big footing, because very often we got to choose where we go big footing, and so they would permit, they would actually pay for permits in numerous places and numerous parts of the
national forest, knowing that that we don't know where Cliff and Bobo and Matt and Renee are going to choose to go, so we have to cover our butts and do this legally. And they would buy permits for numerous national forests in some cases because they didn't know where we're going to choose. Because most shows are planned out meticulously months in advance, three months or more before anybody
puts boots on the grounds on the ground. Now, they tried that first season with our show didn't work out well because Bigfooters are not only wildly paranoid, but we're also uncooperative. We're gonna we need to go where Bigfoots are. Bigfoots don't care where they've got a permit. So our producers caught onto that pretty quick that we weren't going to cooperate as cast members, and of course that the cast members aren't aren't doing it, then you have no show.
So the production company would pay for these permits in multiple places, and oftentimes we didn't know where we were going to go until that very day because something changed, or there's a spot that Matt found it, like, I know they're going to be there, and he's very often right. So I find it very, very difficult to believe that your friend found out where we are going to go and headed us off at the pass and planet evidence or
made sounds or anything like that. I think that your friends a Liar's basically what it comes down to, because I just don't see that being possible with knowing how the production rolled. We didn't know where we were going to go very often until maybe the day before or sometimes even that very day, based on incoming bigfoot information. So how would your friend find that out? And
then how would your friends sneak into what was mostly private land? Or if we were on national forest because on private land we don't need a permit, which so we'd always want to go to the biggest track of private land we can get. But even if we were in national forests, you know, very often there would be like one road in and we would we would put production people guarding that road, Like how would they sneak in? I just don't buy it. I don't think it's possible, knowing with what I know
about our production and how we made the TV show. Yeah it could, I mean it could have happened. Nonebenowuns to us. But it's usually people are hoaxing you. They're gonna keep it up, like they're not going to like just do a couple knocks and then bail. Like if someone's trying to invest with you, they're knocking, they're gonna keep knocking and knocking you, like in Louisiana they kept That's how we figured it out. The way they
were knocking. Well, also, if you're close enough to us that we can hear a knock, because knocks don't travel that far, and even howels don't. I think very often we said, oh, you could hear that for two miles. I say, I don't really think that's true. I think it's probably a half mile or three quarters of a mile. In a lot of cases, if you're close enough to us that we hear you, we're gonna be able to see you. Because you're people just are not that
good in the woods compared to sasquatches and other wild animals like that. I just don't see I just don't see that as being possible. Highly unlikely, not impossible, Yeah, highly highly unlikely, highly unlikely. It boggles my mind to think that that would be true, mostly because we didn't know where we were going to go, you know, and we're driving sometimes two three hours to get to a location. Like, how would they find out?
And if they know that we're going to go down a certain road, well, these roads are miles and miles and miles long, with all these offshoot roads that we decide on the spur of the moment where we're gonna walk and if we like, if it was a plate, like a lot of times it was a gate we had to pull up to and then pull it in. It's like a small rural area, like where everyone knows everybody and what's going on. We would stagger to the car so we didn't all pile up
at the gate and then they see like a big caravan. You know, we'd scout it. We'd you know, spread out a little bit, so we weren't like such a scene. I mean, we took precautions. We have yeah, yeah, and again we had guards. We had people looking at the roads and behind locked gates most of the time because even on National forest land, we would get access to places where people couldn't go because of locked road or locked gates. So, I don't know, I find it
very very dubious. It sounds like your friends just just you know, trying to be a know it all kind of guy, you know. So I don't know, but you've said yourself that he's known for lyon. I think this is another one. Well there you go. But it's good to have friends, and it's good to have friends that are honest. So anyway, let's go to the second. Let's go to the next question, Good morning, well, good morning, Cliff. It's Greig Brush from southeast Idaho.
UM. I just got done finishing John Green's book The Apes among Us for the second time. My question is, is towards the end of the book he mentions sasquatch in the water submerged. My question is any more reports on something like that? Well, you guys, have a great day. Keep it squatchy. I haven't heard too much. I mean I heard one about Jesus been at least fifteen years now in the clam with where a drift boat. The things swim underneath them doing like that frog kick kind of swim and
it and it held express so long. He said, it had to go two hundred yards. It was. It wasn't flowing hard. It was like summertime, which summer or something, so it was not that strong of a flow. But it had to go two hundred yards up and around the bend out of setting for it before its surface. Because it never popped up in front of him. It didn't come back down. So it swam a long wind and water, So I know that. I mean, you look how
big though they got. They got to have big listen to their calls and vocalizations. We know they got big lungs, so it's not that surprising. But for yeah, I mean, and that name the Aquatic eight being proposed back then by those uh some of the scientific community. Was it Grover Cranch, I think and so, but I don't really hear that much anymore about them swimming, especially like submerging and then swimming. Yeah, the reports that
come to my mind off the top of my head are pretty old. When I said, ten or fifteen years old or more maybe twenty years old. I know one guy in the Lewis River saw one swim not too far from his boat, completely submerged. He never saw it come up, so I think he saw it come up pretty far, like one hundred yards upstream or
something like that. Or yeah, it was up downstream downstream. And then there's another report I think Brenda Harris told me this actually the San Juan River down there in the four Corners area, that one was observed submerging then coming up. I guess I would have been upstream a pretty good distance. So yeah, I've got a couple of reports of them swimming underwater a good distance, but nothing recently that I can think of. Oh, I know what
I heard. I believe there totally was this woman down I think Texas was filming. It was fishing. I think there were catfish, catfishing or something, and it was nighttime and she hooked something and she was pulling on it, and I think it's just her sister, and they're they're you know, like, uh, they're not in their forties or fifties something like that. When it happened, and she hooked it and started reeling it in and she
thought her line stags. She started yanking on, yanking on it, and the thing just rises up out of the water in front of him and just it's like pulling, getting the hook out of it and trying to unwrap the line off it and just glaring at him. And uh So that that was the most recent thing I've heard where they were definitely swimming. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. My favorite Bigfoot song of all time Jim Henry by Paul Grays.
Check out check out that song. It's on YouTube. Paul Graves has a few big Foot songs, but he talks about Jim Henry seeing two big foots hurting h like hurting a herd of elk in a lake up in the Cascades. Yeah, that's a good two And I like that tune. Yeah, and the things that were swimming after the herd of elk if I remember, i'd because I'd liked the song as well. I had I did hear. I mean, there a lot of reports of them by the water's edge,
you know, washing things off or whatever. I just got a report from Colorado, like in the shop last week. The report was a little old. I think it was back in the eighties or nineties or whatever. But this woman saw something a Trout Lake and Colorado and it was washing something, you know, by the by the lake's edge, I guess, but she had never found out what it was washing, but not not inside the water, and that you mentioned. It's been a little while since I've heard any
good reports from them swimming or anything like that. But I don't know. I think they might do that sort of thing, kind of staying people. How would even people notice, you know? I know Rob Valley's book, his excellent book, Raincoast Sasquatch, has a number of reports in it of sasquatches swimming in between the islands and whatnot in southeast Alaska. Rob was actually in the shop just yesterday. He came in. I wasn't here, I was I actually had a day at home, which is nice. It's kind
of rare in my life. But Rob came into the shop and we had him sign ch of is a Raincoast Sasquatches, So we have those autographed at the museum right now. So if you are looking for something, if you're looking for more stories than the swimming Craig, check out Rob's book. We have autograph copies in the museum right now. But I don't know when this is going to air, so we may not have him by the time this is aired. But um, get Rob's book Raincoast Sasquatch and you can read
a lot more about that sort of stuff. Definitely in my top ten, if not top ten, if not top five. Yeah, Rob, Rob is a great author. He's a good researcher. So um yeah, check out that book and you can probably read a little bit more about that sort of stuff. Again, Raincoast Sasquatch, Doctor Rob Allley. So I guess that's it for that one. Huh yeah, I think so. Yeah, why don't we go to the next one. And by the way, thank you Craig for the question. Do appreciate it. Hey Daryl calling him from
Cape guard Mass Chusetts. I was listening to your current Q and A and you mentioned that squatching justs doesn't get the credit and deserves. I doesn't want if you get elaborated on that a bit. Love you show. I always love to find a big Foot and the squatch Chusetts. Yes, run by John wilt Um. I just actually heard from Dave McCullough two days ago, another member of the group. Great guy. He's a guest on our show actually back probably three years ago. He just got some He got a video.
You can't really see what it is, but the woman can't tell it's a bear or what. And it's it tears down a tree and you see some black fur like you know, it moving through the trees and it tears down trees and there's big knots bang bang going on. And I think he's gonna release that pretty soon. Then I'm gonna actually I just put it on my Facebook page that James Bobo Fay finding Bigfoot. An audio clip from the Guy got at Nighttime out the back door of this crazy, demonic sounding screen
that came out of the swamp behind behind the house there. As far as Squatch and Chuse is not getting the credit they deserved, I think really Massachusetts in general doesn't get the love it deserves. West just had a great guest on his show, The Sasquatch chronicles a guy from Massachusetts College that went out
there and he saw a young one as a really interesting encounter. He saw a young male about his size that he surprised and said that the look on its face it was, you know, he describes how it would it would kind of it look straight ahead but kept a side glancing him, side eyeing him. Then the mother came out, a big female came out and you know, just kind of looked at him like you better get out of here, like not threatening. And he took off and went and was hiking fast
back down. It was his vehicle to get out of there. And when he got down near the parking lot, he heard a like that, you know, hey, kind of grunt. Hey. He turned around there was a huge male standing out kind of leaning out from behind this bowl there, just glaring at him, like I think he said, thirty yards just you know, like just staring at him like like not making any aggressive news, but looking at him like don't ever come back. Here was the message he
was getting loud and clear. But that, yeah, that was another Massachusetts Massachusetts one. Yeah, a lot of stuff happens there, you know. And and honestly, when we were filming the Connecticut episode of Finding Bigfoot, it was tasked upon me to go camping. That was a camping segment for
me. I did my best. I think I've spent one or one night out there, but the rest of the time I secretly went up to Massachusetts and just never said anything because Massachusetts has a little bit more public land of camp on and I also had better contacts there. Yeah, I hook up up there was in Massachusetts was Ronnie LeBlanc Ronnie LeBlanc or whatever how you pronounced
it from he's now on extusition Bigot. Back then, he was more of a UFO guy with this guy Canyon with a he knew with a footprint cast and he had that trackway and that's what brought us up to Massachusetts. Were actually in Massachusetts for the Connecticut episode because there was nothing going on in Connecticut
too much I've heard that in Ronnie's book. A lot of those reports that I guess Ronnie put out a book, don't know, I haven't read it, but I guess I've been hearing a lot of those reports are actually squatch a chusets reports, because I guess he has associated with squatches Uses at some point or another. So a lot of that stuff is John Wilkin, Dave
and those guys, you know. But of course John will has seen these twice, I believe no more than that Savoy National Forest Community is a ranger and another time down in Savoy there's indications of the area, like there's Windigo Road. I think that's pretty telling in that general area. I'm five for five there. I mean that's I mean, I've had I've heard him, and I'm pretty dang sure. I saw those two that night, like nearby on thermal that it was a non recording thermal of course, but yeah,
we've we've heard him there. I got little stick markers put on his back porch when Mark Dworth and I were there. I've heard knox and vocalizations crazy, the craziest whistling I've ever heard, just nuts. Yeah, I mean at that place, that that definitely produces and plays. My mom's from Massachusetts originally and outside of Worcester, Webster Webster Lake. It's right on the border with Connecticut and Connecticut Rhode Islander right there, and that's kind of a pretty
happening spot. And I remember being in there in the woods as a kid, going, like the last time I went there probably was about twelve at that point, thinking like God, these woods, you know, like there could be stuff hiding in here. I've never even heard of anything like that back there. At that point. I had no idea they were there. We didn't, I didn't have anything happened. It could have been possibly won, but I think they didn't come back in there too much until because it
got so deforested. I mean that was you know, obviously the you know, one of the first colonies was their Plymouth, so they got deforced and so hard. But I mean by eighteen fifty that most of that state was deforested, and by nineteen hundred almost all the woods was gone. But it is reforested so much. I mean all that marginal land where all those if
you walk through the woods, now there's there's rock walls everywhere. It's because that's sort of the farmers were trying to make plowed fields and just stack on the rocks to get them out of the way of the plows. So all that land that was just crap farm land is now woods. So they've they've come back. They weren't they're probably a hundred years ago. They're there now. Yeah, they're all the route I think the northeast as the land goes
back to uh you know, this natural state. The Sasquatches have just come along with it. But there's historical reports too. There's something out by Gramby, I think the Gramby Monster, the Gramby Thing or Blob or something some local name like that. But yeah, that's still going on. It's still going on. And just like in other parts of the country, just like in other parts of the country, like the what is it the Quabbin, I think is a big reservoir that feeds the city of Boston. It's water.
It's all off limits. He just got permission to go in there. I got permission to go there when I was doing the Connecticut camping segment actually, so I was inside there and some official permission to get inside there. But yeah, it's an off limits watershed and big Foots don't seem to care. So yeah, yeah, Massachusetts is great. And Squatchachusetts, I think
has really done a lot to put Massachusetts on the big Foot map. And most of that credit goes to John wilk and his local like his local dudes who and gals that help him out. You know, he's got a great thriving community over there on Facebook and he's done a lot, a lot for the subject in the Northeast. Yeah, and Tim and Ark Fogel, they've
they got me to agree. I mean, they put me on the spot where I had the where I think I saw too and heard him whistling from like forty yards away, I mean heard him how heard tons of power knocks there. I mean, so's he's got some good guys helping him out there too. Yeah, it's a good group and a great community. I'm sharing a lot of information. More stuff has come, in my opinion, out of the Northeast and specifically Massachusetts through the Squatchachusetts porthole than any other. Yeah,
there's some guys up in New Hampshire, Vermont and Maine. I guess I guess that wasn't too specific. There are some more, but you're right, there are some guys up in New York and Maine and Vermont and there are I know, he's still he keeps in touch with, like Dax from Bigfoot Bounty and a couple of those guys up there, like the Oh god, I forget the names right now, they're spacing on him. But there's guys that get out there quite a bit up there, you know, speaking
of Bigfoot Bounty. I forgot to tell you. Maybe I did tell you. I just had an eventful through that we were working on. I was supposed to have a conversation quote unquote debate with Natalia Reagan, doctor Natalia Reagan from that Bigfoot Bounty show, primatologist. She doesn't think sasquatches are real, but and she reached out and said, hey, would you be willing to have a conversation on stage about this? And I, oh, yeah, totally, I'd be happy to teach you a thing or two. Give her
prue. It's put to read first, well again, the people, and then the scientists. The scientists who don't think sasquatchers are real, it's probably just because they have been exposed to the evidence. You know, I totally forgive them. Why would they look in it's the same reason I don't look into sasquatches going through portals. So why I don't I have no information on it. Why why would I believe it? I don't think it's true. Why would I chase that? You know? And the same thing goes.
I feel for the PhDs and whatnot who don't think sasquatches are real because they probably just don't know the evidence, you know. So a little disappointed that that gig fell through, But I'm sure she'll be up at some point. That's pretty exciting about that major university. It's gonna with some government funding a look at big Foot evidence. Oh yeah from North Carolina. Yeah, Derby or cuts in charge of that. He's going to be at this this event
that in Tennessee. So I have a chance to speak to him and maybe got on the podcast. Yeah what's the university again, I don't know. It's not in North Carolina. Okay, So yeah, he's supposed to come on the show. Yeah, we'll get him on eventually, I think. So I'll broach that subject when I see him this weekend. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after these
messages. Well, let's go to the next question if we have him on the on voicemail here, Hey, Cliff and Bobo, this is Jeff Debbs from Cherry Hill in New Jersey, wondering if you're aware of any news or any reports from the Olympic Project that upon once finding the nests, if they know that the bigfoots are still coming back to the nests or I know a lot of times if you disrupt the bird's nest, for example, or some other animal nest, the animals a little hesitant to back. Was your scent
is all over the nest. So I just wanted to find out what your opinions were about that there's anything known about that or whether where the people UH interrupt the big foot nests and big foots come back. Thanks very much, enjoy the show. You guys are great. Yeah, in general, there's never been a known case and a big foot returning to a nest or dan or whatever once it's been discovered. There's not one case where they've come back
to that particularly nesting spot. But maybe Cliff, you know more about that, about the follow up on the more nests and what's going on. I don't I don't think that the nests themselves were used repeatedly. Um. And the first there's two nest sites now, but they're both in the same general area. The first nest site was discovered after their use. The boughs and went on the ground were still green, um, And they put some cameras.
They started frequenting the area since. But there's no evidence that the nests themselves were used more than more I mean ever, really, but more than once, you know, I mean, we assume that the nests were laid upon and all that sort of stuff, because some hair samples were gotten out of out of them that were interesting and all that sort of stuff. The second nest site, UM was discovered as it was being made, you know. Uh, Todd Hale and Shane Courson. They disturbed the animal at the
site. They didn't see it, but but there was a sasquatch there because it barreled downhill and came up above them in a frighteningly short period of time. Scared the hell out of those guys and they bailed. Basically, well, I was they went back to the area. They called me. I got to go there within a couple of days, I guess, or so of them discovering the second nest site, and there were there were handprints there and there were footprints there, so, um, we know that a sasquatch
was there because we have handprints and footprints from the site. But after that they kind of left the area alone and as far as they know, the thing had not come back to specifically the nest itself. But um, the area is a pretty big area. It's a you know, geographically it's small or whatever, but but you know, to quote Stephen Wright, it's a small world. But I wouldn't want to paint it. Yeah, it's a big area. I certainly want to paint. Wouldn't want to paint this area.
And there have been sidings and footprint finds and sound events ongoing in this particular area. Other people have reported sighting reports that I've personally investigated of sasquatches coming out of the area because we all know it's on private land. It's on private land, so it's not accessible. But people, just local citizens so to speak, have reported road crossings in the area. Coming out of the area. Derek Randalls and his wife Pretoria saw a big, light colored
furry creature dash across the landscape. Whatever it was was about seven and a half feet tall, and it was shaking a tree at them quite violently before it dashed off, So I think one can be reason to believe certain that was a sasquatch. They found other footprints in there, And also I think the most readily available evidence is the stuff that Chris Spencer and Shane Courson and those guys are doing in the nest site area itself. They have long duration
recorders out there. They've done a great job compiling the data and sorting it into this animal, that animal, and unknown animals, and so that that work is ongoing. So I think that's probably the strongest evidence that they are still in the area. And of course there's other researchers who, unbeknownst to them, are actually working in that same general area and pulling footprints. That is also ongoing. So yeah, there's every indication that the sasquatches have not
moved away. Now that doesn't mean they're using the nests. Maybe they're making other nests, maybe they don't use them at all. I don't even know why they make these nests. It doesn't make any sense to me. But they're there and they should be noted they're doing it for some reason. I guess, probably for the same reason other ape species, you know, are building their nest and panzees is stuff up in trees, mountain grills on the ground, and human beings. Of course, we make our beds, so
we all make our nests sort of way. Well, yeah, I don't really make my bed either, it seems like a waste of time, but I definitely get under the covers every night, so that's kind of making your bed, right too. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, that the sasquatches are still in the area, we know that pretty much for sure, I think at this point. But they don't seem to be going back to the
nests themselves. But then again, I'm not up there very often. I haven't been up there for probably eight months or more so, but these guys, they go up there I think pretty fairly often. I think Chris Spencer has been really working it hard with this because he's really into the audio thing. We had him on the podcast just a few weeks ago or a few
months ago. He's really working the audio angle pretty hard. So, and there's every indication that these things are still in the area and doing their thing. And I think that's you know, for the most part, I think sasquatches stick to an area. I don't think they move around all that much. Yeah, it seems that the one sasquatches have found an area that they're comfortable with, they're gonna keep hitting. They're gonna be there until something drives
them out. And this area is many, many, many square miles. Yeah, because I mean they exhaust the foods especially. The other thing about like places like that in the Cascades, like Saint Helens, the verticality, Like going a few miles looking straight down on the map, you're dropping down
several thousand feet. You're getting in a whole different environment, like food sources changing, whereas maybe in a flattery that they can exhaust the food sources quicker, like they have to move around, like over a larger geographic area. Yeah. And of course the nest site does have a salmon bearing stream, actually several salmon bearing streams going through it. And also it's a hunting location.
I mean, Derek and those guys were hunting in this general area long before the new Sasquatches were building nests in the area, So there's plenty of reason to be there for the sasquatches, and plus it's private land, hard to get into, hard to get out of, hard to move around within, and um, yeah, that's it's logging land. But they haven't logged it in quite a while. I imagine once they start clearing some of the area, then the sasquatches will move around in that area. That's actually happened
recently in one of our locations. I think they were doing forty year cut cycles there and the guy was the timber cruiser was going to there because they were getting ready to do a cut after it had been it had been like thirty eight years at that point since the last cut. Yeah, I don't remember the specifics about it. I know that they were given the Little Big Project five or six years to do what they need to do in there, and they've gone in there and started flagging trees now, so they may be
cutting it fairly soon. As far as I know, it hasn't happened yet, But I don't know. Maybe it's time to have one of the Olympic Project guys or you know, we've never had Derek Randall's on there. Derek's one of my best friends and we still haven't had them on and I can't believe when we started the show, we're like, god, you know, after we get like fifty seventy shows, like who are we going to have on? It's like we still after two hundred and something, we didn't even
add on guys. We thought we're gonna be another our first ten or twenty. And Derek doesn't do a lot of podcasts, but I did talk to him maybe a month or two ago, and he said he'd be willing to come on. But I kind of feel bad about asking Derek or you know,
I know, want to bother anybody by coming on our podcast. You know, it's like it's like that full that whole uh you sealous of memes about oh god, like someone asking you to do on their podcast, Like and they just so like the guy whoever the persons they're asking to do in their podcast just cringing, you know, like there's a new thought bubbling on their head, like shoot me now lord, you know, or whatever, take me now lord. Kind of feel bad about asking my friends to come
on, but our listeners like it. Yeah, that's what matters. We're here for them, all right, Bob. So you know what, we didn't take any written questions this time. I guess we'll have to get to those next time, but there's always next month. We do these Q and A episodes every single month. I enjoy them a lot because I never know the questions until I'm sitting here in front of the microphone, and just it's just a fun way to interact with our listeners, especially. I think the
voicemail thing is really cool too. So listeners, if you have questions and you would like to ask us anything at all, whatever, even weird off color stuff, because you know, maybe those questions won't get to us, but you never know, man, you never know what prue it's gonna let slide through to us. Ask us. You can either click those links in the show notes below, or you can go to our website big fan to be on podcast dot com and go to the contact and send us or your
written questions or even leave us a voicemail whatever you want to know. Oh and also, by the way, something else you might want to know about is that we've been getting some really really fun fan art. And I realize I love fan art because we have some of the most obviously most intelligent, exquisite listeners in the world. I think and a lot of you guys and gals are fantastic artists out there. If you have any fan art you'd like the like the make for us, maybe we can feature it or something.
Send it to us. I would love to see what sort of stuff you come up with, even and by the way, you don't have to be an artist. That's that's some of my favorite fan art is like the like the crayon drawings we get from four year olds. That wasn't great. Every one of you can do something like that. Send us something then we'd love to see it, and we'd love the featured we'd love to share it with
the rest of you listeners and members and all that stuff. If you do want to become a member, you get an extra forty five minutes or an hour of podcasting from Bob's and I every single week and again. Go to the website click the links, or go to those show notes below and click that link. It's a Patreon thing. I think you're gonna dig it. We've got no complaints so far other than that, Bobo take us out of here. Okay, folks, what wraps another episode of doing listener questions.
Thanks a lot for contributing We look forward to more questions and that sort of thing for you folks, So until next week, you'll know what to do. Keep it squatchy as hell. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts,
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