Big Food and be on with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so like Shay, subscribe and read it, Timesta and me day and listening watching always keep it squatching And now your hosts Cliff Berkman and James Bobo Fay. Good morning Cliff, Good morning to you, Bobo. How are you doing today? All right? How are you doing all right? Yesterday? I spent the afternoon with Dennis Hereford. Was the third thing. I
think it's gonna be probably it depends what you think. You know, you got a pretty crazy imagination, so it's hard to say, um, but yeah, it was great. Um. He's super, super nice, very informative, has a pretty good memory about all these events and stuff. Um. I solved a couple of mysteries. And in the cast collections, I think you know, because there's all these grays Harbor casts from nineteen eighty two, there's there's a lead. I mean, the record says eight, but
they're actually more than that. I think I personally have see one to the two that's from bones Clones. So anybody listening and they want to buy a grays Harbor cast. Doctor Grover Krantz has licensed his molds to bones Clones Um and you can go buy a couple of those casts, and they also he also licensed his molds to the Cripple footprints, the Boss Bird prints. It's
funny how people can can authorize sale of things when they're deceased. Well, yeah, I think he did it before past because because the same company also sells his Gigantopithecus blackie Um skull reproduction, and I also his Meganthropist as well.
I believe, Oh the bones Clones has been around that long. Yeah, yeah, well they I think they used to be called Skeletons Unlimited or something like that, and now I think that company still exists and they still either are the same company or a parent company or I don't know, there's some overlap in there. Nico, my paleontological nerd friend knows all the ins and outs. But if anybody's interested, you could get those casts there.
But yeah, there's two casts available from Grace Harber County on there, although it doesn't tell you where they're from, so you got to come to some nerd like me to find that out. Then there's the Cliff Crook one and then there's another Cliff Crook one that was cast and sand that I have. There's a Hereford cast, a very famous one. There's another one from Krantz that I have. Then there's two half casts, so there's eight of them
right there. And I've seen another picture of a cast that I don't have. That'd be nine. So anyway, there's a lot of casts here. And apparently a couple other citizens have these two how many? How many never came back? He doesn't know, he doesn't know. He's given and he said his brother has one, and I'd be very interested to find out what his brother has. And I know that a few other citizens had them,
like citizens like non police officers are actually retired police officers too. So I bet you between all that stuff, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find that there's at least a dozen foot print casts in the world. So I don't know. I don't know, but a couple of mysteries were solved. Like one of the bones clones casts has a very prominent shape to the outside, to the lateral side of the foot I asked him, do you know where that one came from? Me goes, oh, yeah, that came
from the Elma Creek or Elma boat launch. Yeah, so he there were four or five events during those two months in April in May nineteen eighty two, and I just basically went through each one, like, okay, Abbot Hill started off, tell me about that, and then he told me all about that, and then it's okay, that very same day you got a report of another one, but down either the Satsop or the Chayless River.
So he went down there afterwards, and I was at the same animal and he goes, I'm not sure, and he showed me some pictures that he had. Sure enough, it's the same animals. And so one of the prints I got from from Porter Creek or this pastor reported some stuff to him. So anyway, Yeah, I was able to identify the locations where these
casts were obtained. And that's half the mystery right there, because they're all kind of all these casts are grouped together as nineteen eighty two Grays Harbor County, which is accurate, but I like a little bit more accuracy than that.
So I got some good stories out of him. How about he was called in when he was working for the DNR, the Department of Natural Resources because a kid and I think his sister saw a sasquatch after school in nineteen seventy seven, and so he got called in for that and interviewed them. And yeah, so he was a wealth of information and a really really kind and generous man, you know, who's had some bad experiences with other big
footers. So I was very very lucky to have an inn with him, and it was it was just a pleasure to talk to and I recorded the whole thing. He allowed me to audiotape him, So I'll be kind of piecing that up and sharing it with the museum members to some degree, you know, and try trying to group him by it, because we had a
wide ranging and meandering conversation for two or three hours. So I'm going to try to group these things together and edit them together into concise things like here's what he had to say about the Abbot Hill cast, There's what he had to say about the Porter Creek casts, you know, that kind of thing. So eventually that I'll make that available for the museum members and all that jazz and archive those appropriately in the NABC. So how many how many track
firing locations should he have? Oh? Man, he cast a lot of prints in his life. Because these things, these nineteen eighty two spring nineteen eighty two things, weren't the only big Foot things he did. There's apparently quite a few others. And without being specific with him, like hey, tell me about this event from this this month and this year, it was hard to get information like that out of him because he kind of needed prompting. I'm about like, hey, this, tell me about this event.
He goes, oh, that was great, and then you tell me about it. But I said when I kind of gave him open ended questions like how many casts did you do you think you made over your career there? And he goes, oh, quite a few, quite a few, and then that's that's kind of where he would go with it. And I didn't have anything to prompt him with, so um. But but but that's okay,
that's okay because Number One, I learned a lot. I recorded some stuff that I thought I still think needed to be recorded, you know, and documented properly. I found out some interesting tidbits and minutia about some of these events. I may have a track, I may have a line on a couple other tracks. I was allowed to photograph three and then close to examine three of the original tracks, the very very famous Hareford cast, which everybody has. And by the way, the original is better than the copy
that Krantz made. Krantz made an excellent, excellent mold. It was. It is by far the best mold, most true to the actual cast, because there's another one out there. I think Rick Nole made it and it is distorted. I don't know the cast he used to make the molds. I know Rick is an excellent mold maker and he specializes in mold making and that sort of stuff, but I'm not sure the source of his cast, but it doesn't doesn't look a lot like the original cast does, but Krantzis
does. Krantzis looks a lot like the original cast. It's by far the most true to the original. But again, the originals are original. They are They're really really cool and that the you know how, like one of the neat things about the Hereford cast is the depth, well the exclusion that came up between the toes, so you can really see the definition of the sidewall of the toes really well. Krantz's mold kind of lost some of that. The toes when even more deeply into the mud than I had ever thought,
Um, it is a very interesting cast. And I also got to see a Porter Creek cast, which I have a first generation copy of from a Krantz mold that someone is generous enough to donate to the NABC. And
I also got to look at the half cast that is very interesting. And at the time, they didn't realize the importance of the half cast in nineteen eighty two because at that time no one had really well nobody fully understood the flexibility in the Sasquatch foot that we do now because doctor Jeff Meldrum published his research paper i think in nineteen ninety nine detailing the mid tars flexibility of the foot and which is directly related to the half casts that we have on record.
So this half cast at the time, they oh, it was running, and they were absolutely all right, it was running. That Dennis told me that the steps were about nine feet apart or so, so it was definitely running, just on the front part of the foot, So there's there. I got to see the original half cast, which is really awesome for me, and then I got to share with him the other half cast that I had the privilege of rediscovering years ago, and This is detailed in my
Big Foot road Trip DVD, if anybody out there has it. I'm not going to make any more or anything, so but that this this story is detailed on that DVD about a rediscovery of another nineteen eighty two grays Harbor cast that was taken up on Abbot Hill that day, and it's another half cast of the other Foot, So I think it's an interesting contribution to the data
set there. So I got to bring that up to him then show him, and he loved that, of course, and then I showed him the original cast I've obtained from Cliff Crook who was on the scene with Rady to Hindon, another man from Seattle. They were doing investigations back then together and Cliff cast one from the ground. I got to show him that cast and he reminisced about that a little bit. And Yeah, it was a wonderful, wonderful visit. And I couldn't be more thankful to Dennis and his wife
are having me to their home. So I've been did Dennis talking about like the personal like stuffy with him they called Bob, and his wife suffered because I know he caught a lot of grief to here is that one of the reasons he left the sheriff's department. I don't think that was it at all. Actually, he didn't like leave the sheriff's department, and in any particular time. He stayed on as a beat cop for quite some time, it sounds like, and he basically he got kind of scooped up by um,
you know, other departments and in the state. You know, he worked a lot with DNR, setting up various organizations and protocols and whatnots he worked. He spoke very highly of some of his his his supervisors about what they were doing, what they were trying to do, and he did. He didn't bemoan anything, by the way, there was nothing negative about the guy.
But he did talk about some of the challenges of working within a bureaucracy and trying to get stuff done with very little manpower behind him, and how he worked with the supervisors to rectify that and get more people helping him to do various things. Yeah, he and he eventually got some a kind of a higher level state job, and he retired from that. He did retire. He's only sixty nine years old at this point, and he's been retired for a number of years, so he's he's been having a good time I
think with it for the most part. And he looks back upon you know, he obviously, when you retire, I think very few people say, gosh, I sure wish I was working again, especially if you're a cop. I mean, my dad was a cop. I know how hard that is physically and emotionally and psychologically. It just that's a tough, tough job.
And I feel for cops in general, because you know, I saw firsthand what that could do to you, you know, And I know he looks back fondly upon the people he knew and his time served, of course, but I think he's really enjoying his retirement at this point. That yeah, yeah, it was Yeah, well I guess it kind of was good point, Okay, to get back to that, he didn't get a lot of grief because he kind of kept it under wraps for the most part.
Yeah, he got a little bit of attention and that brought more stuff in. But I asked him like, hey, were you ever on the stand testifying, And some scumbag lawyer brings up like, hey, well, I understand you believe in Bigfoot. Why should we believe in you says oh no, never once, never, once, And it's probably has something to do with where he was working. I think you know, Gray's Herbert County, that area, you know, if you don't, if you haven't seen a
sasquatch yourself, you probably know someone who has. You know, if you go to the woods at all, you know, And so it's probably has something to do with the culture of that particular area as well. Yeah, that's cool though, because that's I mean, it's it's I think it's well, maybe not everyone, but it's it's certainly ninety five or some people. I know they're unless they cast one themselves. It's our favorite everyone, I know, that's our favorite cast. Oh yeah, yeah, it is a
The Hereford cast is is one of the cleanest. In fact, it's so clean. Some people say it's fake because of that. I say, no, no, no, no, just oh the evidence isn't good enough. The evidence isn't good enough. And when you give you give him that one thing that is good enough, they say, oh, that's too good. It can't be true. Dude, come to my garage. You know, you were in my garage that last week. Man, I showed you some of these these casts. And I was bemoaning that to U Dennis yesterday.
I say, people don't understand how hard it is to get a cast like this because Dennis is as a tracker. In fact, he's a trackers tracker. M he is so good that professional trackers not like tip their hat to him. They say, no, Dennis is a solid, solid tracker. I love tracking with that guy. We've got going about out in the field. Oh, I would love too. I would absolutely love to. You know, he's not far away from a couple of really good big foot spots.
And yeah, and I think he would like to as well, so, but I don't know he and he liked me, I mean he and he said, you know, Cliff, you can come up anytime you'd like, if you want to have more conversations about this or check out the cast again. Um, he would he invite. He said, I can come up anytime i'd like and hang out with them. And he has he has photographs and most of his photographs were put in the police file that is lost
that is currently being hunted down by the best in the business. So we'll just leave it at that right now. Cool. Well, yeah, I see you have a busy day. We did have a busy day. Oh gotten the traffic on the way back. Insane, insane. But I won't beat I won't grumble and bitch about that to everybody here. But because we have something else to do, we have a Q and A session right now, I'm ready, baby, Okay. Well, the first of course, you know, if you are listening to this and you maybe you're new.
Maybe we have a lot of new subscribers. You know, um, we once about about once a month. We're kind of loose on everything that we do, but about once a month we do a Q and A episode where you the listeners, submit questions to us, you know, Cliff and Bows. And you can do it in two ways. You can either write us an email or you can leave it, leave us a voicemail. And we love the voicemails. We like hearing your your melodious voices. Um, not,
by the ways, melodious, not malodorous voices. Oh you know that's funny. There's a big vief here this morning because I'm not allowed to eat garlic because it's the smell she hates the most. Oh no, that's terrible. I had pizza with my friendship. You know, there was there was a there was garlic on it, and like she like has been like gagging. We had like froze last night, like windows and doors open and stuff. And she left like right for the podcast start because I'm like, because
they were running the lawnmower a couple of houses down. I'm like, you know, I got to close these doors and windows from the podcast. So she's like, it's like, well, I was supposed to be working on my resume and doing some of other stuff in the you know, at the desk, and I said, well, I got to close the stuff up. So she stormed out. Man, I it would be tough if Melissa didn't tolerate or like the smell of garlic, because I sure love garlic,
I know. But Melissa's right there with me. She'll e the a couple couple yeah, when she gets ill or it's not not feeling very well, she'll throw back a couple of rock clothes. And that's exactly what I would do. Is it's medicine. It kept me healthy for a long time. I see garlic like chrip. Well, whenever I was getting sick before, I to take two whole heads of garlic. Like about the clothes with two whole heads, chop up, mix them in noodles and little a little butter
and salt and pepper and grind that down. And it kicked whatever I had. It would kill it, right, it instantly. Oh yeah, I imagine two whole heads. Yeah, you're an extreme person in some ways. Well then it gave me. But then I found out later it gave me an ulcers because it was it was I didn't chop them up fine enough and there's so much in its burning holes in my stomach. Lining. Oh yeah, I can only imagine. So I have super bad hartburn from it.
But it took a while to get to that point. I bet. Okay, So back to the questions. Oh yeah, yeah, I forgot that's what we're doing here. Yeah, so let's so anyway, if you have a question, you can email us um and of course I imagine links will be in the show notes, as they often are. But if you want to go to our website, Bigfoot of Me on podcast dot com, you just hit the contact button and send us an email with your question. And also on the website there is the link to leave us a voicemail. We
really enjoyed the voicemails. Not that we don't like the written ones, because we were pretty good readers, but at the same time we do like listening to your voices. So if you have a question for us, feel free to submitutes. And of course, after we're done recording here, we're going to do a members section Q and A with just the members. So if you are a member of Bigfoot and Beyond, we really appreciate you. You can submit a question just for the membership Q and A. If you're interested
in becoming a member again. Links are in the show notes, as they always are, or you can go to the podcast website and hit membership or whatever the link there is that's obvious, and it'll take you and give you all the information you need. So there you go. There's all the plugs, there's all the stuff, there's all the preamble. Let's hop into the
first question. Okay, Pruitt, hit it, Hey, Cliff and Bobo, it's blue from Squatch to choose It's I noticed that you guys have made countless Star Wars references, both on finding Bigfoot and on the podcast, so I have to ask, if you could go squatching with any Star Wars character, who would you choose? And why, And you can't pick Chewbacca or any Wookie because they're pretty much just the space equivalent of a sasquatch. Look
forward to hearing your answer, and has always loved the podcast. Yoda. Yeah, I gotta go with Yoda too. Yoda's kind of my go to for a lot of that stuff. It's obvious, there's no there's no one else. Base Window seems a little little moody in some ways for me to go out to the woods for so long. But I sure like him as well because he walks, walks the edge, you know, between the light and the dark side in some ways because of his lightsaber style. But that's
probably going too deep in all this sort of stuff. But yeah, I think Yoda because you know, hem he good relations with the Wookies he has. Yeah, so I don't know that that's mean. That's mean, But let's see, well, who else would it be besides uh Yoda? Both since we both came to the same conclusion, do you have any other? Just Obi one? Because the force is strong with them? Okay, fair enough, the forces from But the force is wrong with all the Jedis,
aren't they? I guess Luke passes doesn't he, I guess by the end, Yeah, I think so. I think so he had a hire mediclarian count um And might I might air towards Quigan Gin actually just because I like
his general chaotic nature, Like he doesn't follow the rules. He doesn't have to do exactly with the bureaucrat, the bureaucratic Jedi Order says, you know, because really the Jedi Order imploded because of their own arrogance and unswerving discipline to the order, you know, whereas Quigan would like kind of sit well, he's more in touch with the living forest blah blah blah and all that sort of stuff. So anyway, I would go with him. But Yoda
is definitely my number one. Yeah, for sure. Has that blue? Is that nerdy enough for you all your nerds out there? And squatch a choosets? Oh you know, speaking of squatch A choosets, did you know about this post? I was talking to um Um, I was talking to John Wilk yesterday. I might drive home because of all the traffic. He called me and I called him back when he didn't pick up. He must
have been talking to you, oh man, he had you know. Um. So he has a season tickets to them to the baseball team out there in Boston, Red Sox. I actually knew that, by the way, Um, because I'm a sports guy. I know that baseball exists, and the Red Sox as a baseball team. That qualifies me as a sports guy. Um. But anyway, he has season tickets out there, and I guess he was sitting in these sitting in these seats that are you know,
pretty coveted, you know, they're they're they're outer. I think he usually is behind home plate, I thought, But he was telling me about being out there like where the home run balls are hit. You know, it's like way past the outfield and on top of this the big green wall. There's a big green wall out there. Monster. Oh yeah, that's it.
He actually mentioned that, the green Monster. So he's sitting out there one time and somebody I don't know who or when or where, it doesn't matter to me, but the sports guys, I'll know this M hit a home run and the ball went sailing out there and landed in his section, and everybody's looking around for it and he and um, nobody could find the ball. Um, you know, because everybody wants to get a home run
ball, right, but nobody could find the actual ball. So John took a baseball that he had with him, like he brought a baseball in his backpack or something. He says, he brings one in case he runs into like an older player, he can get his autograph or you know, that's where like a kid shows up, he can just give him a baseball, that kind of thing. But so he got a baseball out of his bag
and then held it up like he caught it. And then uh, and it got on camera and everybody was cheering for him and stuff and everybody's eye and they're all stoked because it looked like that guy got a got a home run ball. And then one of the other guys sitting out in the same section found the actual home run ball and picked it up and then held it up, and then they were both on camera the balls that you know, and like looking at each other. That's the best man, John Rules.
Love that guy, so Blue. Congratulations on being in Squashed Chusets Man. It's great group. John's a super great guy, and Massachusetts does not get the attention it deserves when it comes to Bigfoot. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right back after these messages. All right, you want to help up the next question here, I'm ready hit it. Hit it, hey, Cliff and Bobo. This is MB over in West by Squatch, Virginia. Hey, I've got a question for you
guys. I've been following this phenomenon for quite some time, and I've read and heard several accounts of these creatures rating people's like backyard vegetable gardens or even fruit trees and people's yards, but I don't think I've ever heard of them raiding like large commercial orchards or even large fields of crops. It seems to me like these would be all you can eat buffets for these guys, and that they could do a lot of damage and farmers could lose a lot of
money. Have you guys heard of any such accounts? Thanks for answering my question, and we're keeping its squatchy here in West Virginia. John Dever didn't say anything about it, but I think that's why it's almost heaven commercial are culture? Yeah, you know, I think definitely they do, but not as much. I don't think as much as some people to expect because they
seem to not like pesticides. They like organic like the like. I know that people have organics and like nearby there's big commercial fields and they'll they'll hit the organics over the spraye stuff any day. Well, you know, And there's there's two things i'd i'd like to bring up. The first thing that came to my mind is down on the Navajo Reservation where that that cool photograph
of one carrying that big log came from. Um, you know, down on the Navajo Reservation outside Fruitland and Farmington and all that sort of stuff. Um, you know, it's rather deserty, but there are sasquatches there in the river. It's the San Juan River, Is that right, Bobo, Yeah, yeah, the San Juan River. And m. Brenda Harris is a kind of my main contact down in that general are a great big footer and wonderful person in general. Um then she uh, well down and there
you know it's it's it's a reservation. So there's unfortunate there's a lot of poverty in the area. So on what they do the tribe, the Navahoo tribe, they irrigate and farm a lot of the flat lands on top of the I guess the maces or something, you know, because the River valley is down below and that's where the farmington is and that sort of thing. But up above there's a flat desert lands. So the Navajo Nation irrigates that
and grows crops for the tribal members, you know. But because there is some poverty in the area, they have to actually hire security guards to keep an eye on it um so the people don't come and steal from from the farms. But because of these big irrigated you know, the vegetable gardens, essentially the Sasquatches have cluded in on it and they come and steal things.
And that's why that that the security guard got that photograph of that one walking on the on the slope side there with a with a big log, and I spoke. I didn't speak to the person. I understand you did, Bob, but I've not spoken to the actual witness who took that photograph. But I did speak to his or her colleagues about five or six maybe seven security guards that came down to talk to us one day while we were filming in the area, and they straight out told me it's oh, yeah,
I've seen one or i've seen one I've I've heard one. I know they're there, and one of the people says, Cliff, we were hired to keep the people out. We don't know what to do about the big foots. So they absolutely do raid these large commercial farms. But here's my second point. One of the peculiar things about sasquatches raiding farms or even like you know, people's gardens in their backyard or that's or even when people leave things
out for them, they generally only take enough. They don't just raid everything and keep eating and eating and eating. Now, of course, in some cases, yeah, entire trees or striped bear overnight and that sort of thing. And I don't know that they has been very, very hungry or something. But generally speaking, if you leave, say five things out, they'll take two or three and leave the rest for you, or seemingly leave the
rest for you. I don't want to presume to know what's inside a sasquatch his mind, but they seem to only take enough, only what they need. Maybe perhaps it's a human thing that maybe greed is a human thing, or a little bit more of a human thing in that way amongst primates, or at least hominins that we take more than we need because we have an insatial appetite, but Sasquatches seem to just take what they only need to persist
and then move on. Maybe that's just because they don't have that greed gene or something that we have. Maybe it's they just don't want. Maybe they're savvy enough to know that if they take more, they're going to draw attention to themselves and they don't want to do that. But whatever the reason, they don't seem to take so much that they're even noticed, you know, And I'll go back again, which is maybe why they put the lids back
on the trash cans when they're done rummaging through them. They've been seen doing it on more than one occasion. Yeah, they try to make it look like a lot of times trying to put it back. They'll put the backpacke. They go to do it back, they might put it back right where it was or not every time, but they'll like trying to make it not so obvious they were there. Yeah, I think that has something to do
with it. So I would think these large agricultural grows and whatever are in fact being rated, but to such a small degree that you know, the bigfoots can move around. So like over here in part of Parkdale, on the east side of Mountain Hood, the whole place is this fruit basket. I mean, there's this hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of acres of these orchards, and there's the Dallas Watershed on one side. You've got reservoir over there
where the numerous sasquatch report has been. They're big foots there for sure. But you know, if they move and they hit one orchard twice in a week and then another one a couple of days later, no one will ever notice. No one will ever notice. And I think that's the way they roll. And if it's if they're not doing it intentionally, that's a it's a behavior that they've picked up that works well for them. Man. I
mean, who knows. Maybe the ones that take more than they then perhaps deserve, or take take more than they can more than they need from one side. Maybe those are the ones that get shot at and chase out of the area. Then they learn a lesson about humans and take them too much. Yeah, I agree, I agree with that. Yeah, So maybe I don't know, and maybe that's it. Thanks for keeping West Virginia squatchy. They don't have to do anything to keep West squat the Squatches keep it
squatchy. That's a good point. That place is squatchy. Yeah, I love West Virginia. It's great. Oh that's awesome. Good train, good, big Foot's good people, everything's great up there. All right, let's go to the next question. Then. Hey, Cliff and Bobo, this is Nolan from El Segundo, California. Hope you both are doing well as
always, love the show, love the podcast as well. I will be going on an expedition with the bfr OH to Washington this year, and my question to you guys is if you guys ever also part taking expeditions and if you have any plans to go on one this year. Again, thanks for all you guys do and keep it squatchy. I'm not doing any group expeditions or something like that. I mean, I'm gonna go out with my friends and stuff and solo. Yeah, I mean, Bobo and I have both
been on numerous BFRRO expeditions in the past. Oh, they're great for start Yeah you're starting out there, They're really good. Yeah, they're fantastic and you know three hundred bucks or whatever they charge isn't bad at all for a weekend, especially, it's what you get out of it. And again I used to run them. I ran two or three of these things from Matt. I found it to be kind of a hassle and a drawn my time,
so I ended up not doing it. Like organizing these things. But a lot of the organizers really enjoy doing this sort of stuff, and it's right in their back yards and they want to share their knowledge and stuff. So these are great opportunities for people who are just getting into the subject to kind of learn some of the ropes a couple interesting techniques out there. And also then, by far, in my opinion, and Bobs, I like
your thought on this as well. By far, the most important thing about these expeditions is that you get to network with other people who share an interest with you, and maybe you want to go make a friend for a weekend, and then maybe you want to go to the woods with that person again in the future. I don't recommend just going to the woods with people that you meet online, you know, unless you've had long lasting relationship with them,
because it could be dangerous. Frankly, it could be dangerous. People are oftentimes much stranger and eccentric in person than they are online, which seems exactly opposite to a lot of people's experience, but that could also be true. So yeah, but meeting to somebody in person and kind of getting the field forum and you know, that last sort of stuff is in these BFRO expeditions, or any expeditions really, but the BFRO runs them all the time
and all over the place. They are wonderful opportunities for doing that sort of thing. I don't go on these anymore, mostly because I just don't like being around big groups of people. Honestly, you know, it's fine here because I'm sitting alone in my office right now talking to Bobo and Matt privit's listening so to my best friends are on the other line, and I forget that I have an audience. You know. It's generally how I do these things well, because, as you've heard me say a lot of times,
I'm an introvert. I'm a professional extrovert, but I am an introvert. So when I go to the woods, I don't go to the woods to be with a bunch of people. I go to the woods to more or less be alone or being a very very very small group and look around. I just find that it more satisfying to my soul in a lot of ways. And in a chariss doctor own in a charis that you know, she's
just a world renown primatologists, like look at her staffs. If you go out by yourself, like in looking for a primate, you're then you go out with the second person you're adds drop. I think it's seventy percent or something every every person you add, like from two people to four people, like it's an exponential rate of less activity. And that's for like known primates exactly, and I think sasquatches would be very similar in a lot of ways.
And you're just louder, but you know, to be fair though, the BFRO does utilize these large groups very intelligently. I've heard Matt call it, and Matt call this idea casting a net with ears essentially, you know, because spreading out, you're gonna hear more. Somebody will hear something at some point if something is going on, and unfortunately a lot of times when
nothing's going on. So which is the bad part about going out with a bunch of people, because you don't know how good observe some of these people are, etc. But for the most part, spreading out, you know, like when we did on finding big Foot, for example, we had basically two groups at night and we would spread out as far as we could reasonably do so, and keep in radio contact, make some noise, and then sometimes you'll notice by watching the show one of the two groups heard something
but the other one did not. And therein lies the advantage to these larger groups. So if you can send if you can send small all groups out and cover a lot of land, it's an effective way of narrowing down your search. And I did the same thing when I was running expeditions a number
of years ago up here in mountain Hood National Forest. I would I would limit my trips to about ten or twelve people and we would send them out to various areas on the first night or two, and whoever got hits, whoever got possible activity that we would eventually converge all of our groups in this one particular area to see if we can get more. So that's the use of so many people on these trips is you get to spread out over a
large area and then focus your efforts on the last night or two. Yeah, I mean there's there's definitely pros and cons to both styles for sure. Yeah, But for me lately, it's just not my thing to go out with a lot of people. I mean, I don't even go out with Bart and when he goes up you know, he comes to Washington every year and it goes with a lot of his friends and that sort of thing.
I don't even go out with Bart and Bart's one of my best friends because it's just there's so many people and I'm just uncomble around people in general, you know. And even when and I think this is probably true for youtubebs, because you come across as a you know, it's a wonderful extrovert that
everybody wants to have a beer with. But at the end of the day, you're good at that, but you're also pretty quiet and introverted, and at a certain point, you you've had enough, you know, the older I get for sure, exactly exactly, because even when I go out like I did, drop by Bart's thing, um maybe last year year before stuthing like that and just hung out for a couple hours, and it's like, well this is this is I mean, the people were kind. It's nothing
to do with the people there. I want to emphasize that nothing to do with the good people that go out. People are can be great. It has everything to do with me. Even when I go out on these these trips where there's a lot of people, I end up going off alone somewhere because that's just what I'm most comfortable doing. It's what I enjoy, It's it's you know, So I don't do trips like this anymore for that reason,
basically because I end up being alone anyway. This way I like it, Yeah, I mean just from being on TV and stuff too, like Lips a big one like the last PFRO and I wasn't even part of it.
I just they were out by me and I dropped in. And then it's kind of like so like because we're on TV, if one of the guys from one of someone from one of the shows, like a TV show shows up and like a lot of people want to be with you, and you're kind of like the focus of a lot of stuff, and you're just like You're just like now I'm just out here to kick back and have a few laughs with some buddies or you know, like you know, like just have a good time, you know, you don't want to be like the
focus of things. Yeah, and it's the people are great. The people are so kind and so supportive, you know, but it's it's just uncomfortable if they were just something like if it was it would be the same people but just smaller groups, and it would be you know, if it was just like when we go on years, like there was like ten to twelve people, like to me, that was about max that you could and there was two of us, so I mean, and then Joe and Sharon were
there also, so I mean, it wasn't like you had to like trying to juggle like forty or eighty people, like you know, give someone, give everyone a certain amount of time, or you know, make sure you talk to everybody like it's a yeah, because then the focus gets more on the people. Yeah. It kind of goes back to what I very often say, like the focus in big Footing should not be on the people. It should be on the animals. That's that's what I was just trying to
say. I guess, yeah, but I get it. I Mean when I when I got around John Green and those guys, I was just like, I want to ask a ten million questions. I mean there's still times. I mean, if I get around people, I want to ask them just questions, non stuff, you know, Like so I get it, Like I'm I'm I'm worse than most people at that, Like oh yeah, we all Fanboy at some point or another, you know. I mean Denis Hereford yesterday, case in point, like he didn't understand it, man,
but I was just over the moon with it. Yeah, they don't. They don't get it when we're like we're like super just like oh my god. That I try to think. When we were on Finding Big Well, we went to Australia like a meeting Rex Scale, where I was like super like whoa, Like this is awesome, you know, like just you know fan boy. Yeah, yeah, it happens to all us. But you know, it's uncomfortable being the center of attention for me. Yeah, I
hate that part. Yeah, and most I think most fans understand that. And you know, I get in the museum a lot and take a lot of pictures in the museum with people and stuff, and it's very very kind and I wouldn't be in the position I am today without them. But at the same time, you know, big footing stuff like that to me is work. I mean, for most other people it's a great weekend vacation,
but for me, it's it's work. You know, A good vacation for me is Melissa and the dog and I out for a couple of days outside of cell phone reception. All right, Nolan, So there's your answer for you. It's kind of a long winded one, kind of meandering one. But I think you're gonna have a great time on the expedition the BFRO as some great expedition leaders up in that particular area. I think you're gonna get
a lot out of it and meet some really, really good people. Just try to stay in contact with them and see if you can perhaps go to the field with a couple of the people that you enjoy spending time with, because that's really what it's about at the end of the day, go to the field with people who are like minded or people that you and joy spending
time with. You don't have to be like minded thinking about it, because I go to the Wizzard Tom Powell, and he and I couldn't disagree more about bigfoots, but I don't care what he thinks, and he doesn't care what I think. We're just good friends. So find some people that you like that you enjoy spending time with, and try to get out in the woods as much as possible because it is good for the soul. And sometimes every once in a while Bigfoot show up. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and
Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. That was our last voice that we're onto the written submissions, all right. The first one is from Noah Johnston. I love the podcast and I'm a big fan of Finding Bigfoot. What's the biggest discovery or piece of evidence in the Bigfoot world to come out in the last ten years in your opinion, that's a good question. The first thing that jumps in my mind are the nests.
I think that the Loving Project nests are are significant, especially when taken not as an individual piece of evidence, but as a as a body of
evidence, because you have to include Lorie's footprint casts. Another researcher, Lorie Um, had been casting footprints in the vicinity of the nests, within five miles at the nests for years before the nests were discovered, so Um Laurie's footprints combined with the Olympic Project nests, I think are probably um some of the best evidence um and spore four sasquatches that has been discovered in the last ten years. Off the top of my head, what about you, Bobo,
I go, I'm rocking my head. I'd say that that's definitely I don't know, it's the top one I'm trying would be what would what would beat it? Like? Um? I guess yeah, directly related the big Foot first, I guess said after the nest for sure, and then maybe just these new hominid species they've discovered around the world since then in the last ten years. Yeah, okay, that's an interesting take on it. I didn't. I didn't. I wasn't thinking outside of the big Foot world.
But yeah, paleoanthropology, more species are being discovered all the time. Yeah, I think that helps validate to like people are going, okay, there's more going on than we knew about. Yeah, yeah, that is very, very significant. I wasn't thinking about along those lines because back in the seventies, sixties, seventies, and even in the nineteen eighties, anthropologists said
that sasquatches were not real because they couldn't be real. There was no place for them in the anthropological model of evolution, you know, because they thought that evolution is really a linear thing, like the trunk of a tree, you know, where one species gave rise to another gave rise to another in a linear fashion. And since really the late eighties early nineteen nineties in paleoanthropology, there has been a revolution, a huge paradigm shift, where now we
realize that human evolution is not a linear thing. It is a much more bushy thing where all these different branches go out in all sorts of different directions and many most of them die off. But the whole idea that there might be a relict hominoids running around like sasquatches and almasties and arens and whatever else ebu goo goos and you just name it. Man, all these unknown bipedal apes out there. Back in the day, it couldn't be real. Therefore
it wasn't. But now with the persistence of all these different branches of human relatives, who's to say they all went extinct? And clearly, in my opinion, they have not all gone extinct. There's at least a couple running around still in these far flung corners of the world, including the forests of
North America. So I think that is a huge thing. And just the last ten years, you know, obviously it was that the paradigm shift was in the nineteen nineties, but in the last ten years even more species have been discovered. I think Homo alidi came during that time. Then of course,
the Homo nalidi keeps giving and giving and giving. Like there's this They were in the news this past week about how they might have scratched things into the wall for burials or something, and how they had a relatively small brain but still pretty intelligent and it had a symbolic thought and very interesting stuff coming out. Maybe we can attack that one of our topical podcasts here. But there's also two species of human relatives that were described, I think just last
year in twenty twenty two, in July. One of them homology was his name? What it was? Its name? That one got most of the press because it had a much sexier name than the other one did I forget. I even forget what the other one was. But two species of Neanderthal relatives close to the indertal relatives were discovered. One of them was in Israel and the other one, I forget where it was, but the other one had a sexier name. Dragon Man is what they called it, So we
got all the press. Yeah. So those sort of discoveries keep trickling in, and believe it or not, the more human relatives and near relatives that are discovered in the fossil record, the stronger that bolsters the argument for sasquatches in the amongst anthropologists. So that's a good point, Bob. I didn't
I wasn't even think in that direction, but that's a good one. Yeah, because I was thinking when I look at that aspect, I kind of figure what people say the best out of I think, what's going to convince scientists or the general you know population that has an interest in science. You know. So that's why I found out relevant. No, No, you're you're absolutely correct. That's a very strong candidate for answering this question here. So yeah, from Noah, great question, Noah, super good question.
Yeah, because there haven't really been any interesting photographs that have been made public. UM vocalizations or vocalizations they're cool, but you know, without seeing the vocalizer, it's kind of weak. UM in a lot of ways. Footprints, Yeah, they keep coming in. Footprints and cast keep coming in, and the more of those, um for study, the better we're going to be. I think as a speed as a as a as researchers kind of putting forth this idea of sasquatches. But yeah, yeah, there's there has
been a whole lot else going on, no great films or anything. This comes from Kelly Stanley. Uh. First of all, I absolutely love you guys. Both of you are the reason why I got into big Foot. In episode two of Finding big Foot before fell down those steps, did anybody else get a thermal of what was moving around in the woods? Also, any updates on the Bridge's property. Um, I had to bring up that fall down the stairs. But people love that fall, man, they just
love it. I know you don't. There's a lot of things that you don't like that people enjoy, like the South Park episode, And yeah, I was gonna say for this one, Um, those were the that was one of those first three. They the editors were faking stuff. There was no there was nothing else to me, not the editors. The I thought that was production on site on that one. Oh it was bull It was product on site and the editors too. The editors kind of like, this
is what the story was. But the first three they were faking stuff, Like they showed that horse, so I filmed that horse. They act like it was a big Foot that was that episode. Um No, there was nothing else. There was nothing caught on thermal that was real, Like that was a sasquatch related or skunkpe related that. You know, it was all just the editing. There was nothing there wasn't There was nothing else for someone else to film. Yeah. Yeah, if it's on television, take it
with a big grain of salt. In fact, maybe even a salt lick. I think it is a good rule of thumb, you know. And first season of Finding big Foot, there were some pretty nebulous, shady things in the final edit that none of us have really approved of. But we fixed all that for second season and we kept moving on and eventually made a pretty good show. I thought it was only the first three episodes. Well
that's what I'm saying. We we kind of fixed all that by having some meetings with the network, and the second season on, you can pretty much take it to the bank, you know. Yeah, I say it all the time. We don't have to take a helicopter to get anywhere. That's TV man, that's story hook stuff. That was great fun coming along on
the ride with you know, the gang here. But first season, take, especially first season take, take everything with a big grain of salt, you know, which, which is why I don't watch Bigfoot TV, you know, or any TV, any paranormal TV. I guess, if you want to call it paranormal TV. I don't watch any of that stuff because editors and producers and stuff, their job is to make a good story.
They've got no dog in the fight. And you know, if there's real researchers on the team, they have very little, very little to say about it, about the final edits and stuff. We were special in some ways because our contract was with Animal Plane and Discovery and not the production company. So we got the we got them on our side, and everything kind of went smooth. Well it was bumpy, of course too, but it went
relatively smoothly after that. You've heard Chad Hamill say it on this very podcast on a previous episode, Ours is the most real reality show he ever worked on, and there's something to be proud about. Well everyone said that, yeah exactly. So yeah, if if we got something. We never filmed a big foot. On Finding big Foot, we never filmed a big foot. So it's as simple as that. And as far as updates on the bridge's property, I haven't been hearing too much. I know Stacy Brown Junior
was in contact. We sold them stuff out there. Oh did they saw it? I didn't know that that. Yeah, they moved and the action really slowed down. Yeah, I kind of lost contact with them. They're lovely people, but I kind of lost contact with them after a while. So all right, So there you go, Kelly. I'm afraid we don't have a lot of good updates for you on that one, and and you know, but we do appreciate you loving us. Okay, last question,
last question for the day. Um, this comes from Michael Wolf, Hey, Cliff and Bobo. Do you know of any sighting reports from railroad workers, whether it's locomotive engineers or track inspectors. Yes, yes, yes,
yes, I absolutely do. In fact, we had a guest on in the early days of the podcast talking about stuff, didn't we Yeah, I was amor and he he never actually saw one but or filmed one from the train, but he said he's spoken to people that have and that picture that are one buddy had from the still from that still, that picture we thought was one of the best big foot fotos we've ever seen. Yeah, what
about that one? A guy we know got two stills off of a video he saw and his sister had seen it also, and it's just it's it's
the to me, it's the best big footfloto I've ever seen. I mean it's And when they describe what happened, it was taken by a railroad worker on the Pacific and the Pacific Northwest, it was actually I'll just say it because the guys hasn't turned up since it's outside of the Portland area, and the train was stopped and the saying approach the training in broad daylight and walked back and forth and it was like literally like seventy eighty feet from the guy
in broad daylight with a good iPhone. Oh. The story I got is that he was driving and is on the side of the road and the guy was going to go back and do recreations on the side of the road. That was that was his fake story to cover the guy that he didn't want to like. I never said publicly that it was a railroad worker chill just now. I mean I've known that because I looked for the guy for we
looked up there. It was it two years ago. I went up there for like a week and a half and we were looking for the guy and we never were able to find him. Okay. I was told this that the guy who got the pictures went to his work. Despite the fact that the guy, the witness, didn't want to be outed, he didn't want anything to do with the picture. That this guy went to his work and tried to talk to him just totally inappropriate. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly
it. But the guy but he did show, he did show, um, he did show people. That's how his sister saw it was he overheard these people talking about big foot stuff and they were making fun of his sisters because she said she heard them and that her brother had seen one before and these and one of the one of the people there was in English. I think that the book. They were both English people. She was with two englishmen from work and they were just laughing and busting balls on the whole bigfoot
thing. And then the guy that worked on the train came by and said, oh, they're real, and he showed him pulled out his phone, pulled out the video and showed him a video and they were like, oh my god. And she saw it was like, oh my god, that's crazy. And he let her take two pictures of the of his He wouldn't let her take it, but he let her take two stills off his phone screen. And it's just like, there's no answer person in the costume.
There's no way even if it's human size is the closest they could get for the size was five and a half foot was it was about five It was around five and a half feet tall. Was a small one. But the arm ratios, I mean, it really reminded me it was the Minnesota Iceman. Well, I just remember being so thin like in the arms and stuff. I mean it was it was lanky and weird looking and the arms were too long. And but I sure hope that guy has has not not the
investigator. It wouldn't be good for the subject if you put it out, but the witness himself. I really hope that guy eventually puts it out. It would be very very interesting. But again, I think when these animals are proven to be real, academically accepted animals, um there's gonna be a flood of pictures and videos. Just it's gonna be insane um of all these
things that people are sitting on right now. M But you know, we have a I have a group of guys train conductors, um four guys, and I think they I think there's four of them who work on the railroad. They go to Chester's Pub next door to the museum, and I saw him at at another pub when I was having a meeting down there, having a lunch meeting with somebody. They recognize you from the show and came up, and that's where I first initially met them. But now they come into
the shop whenever they're in town. They work on the radio on the railroad that parallels Highway eighty four along the Columbia River. And two or three of those guys have seen Sasquatches on duty from their trained and mostly in the Eagle Creek area, and I have the places plotted on a map exactly where they were, because when somebody brings us a report in the store in the museum, we write, we take notes, and we also find out exactly where
it is. And so there's two or three reports just from the Eagle Creek area up there, which is where the Big Burn happened a number of years ago, but Eagle Creek within a couple of miles of that particular spot. Sasquatches are have been seen by railroad workers several times. When you look on Google Earth, what is it? What's what would be the draw there? I mean, can you tell is there a good cover coming right down to the highway that's when they crossed the Yeah, well south of there, you
it is a big wilderness area, like there's nobody up there. It's very dangerous as all cliffs and all that sort of stuff, just you know, looks and crannies for these scenes to be. And also they might they're probably swimming across the Columbia in those areas. A lot of that. The Columbia is very very as a huge rivers like over a mile wide, but for much of it, for much of these areas, three fourths of it,
it's like five or six feet deep. And then that last a couple hundred yards you got to swim, and which isn't nothing for a big foot, you know, that's nothing. So maybe they're crossing in this area. Maybe they're coming down out of the wilderness areas to the south. But but remember before the eighty four was put in there, before Highway eighty four was there, almost all of that was swamp and much of those swamps still exist. Driving on eighty four, you can see elk on the side of the road.
You can see mountain goats and that sort of thing on the cliff faces. It is thick with wildlife and a lot of that and a lot of those stretches in there. It's very very cool. And in the Eagle Creek area, in particular around Bondovo, in all that area, there's hatcheries. The salmon are coming up, flopping around on the side of the river, you know, when they're dying and spawning and stuff. There is a ton of food all throughout there. With very treacherous train that's very hard to navigate,
it's perfect for sasquatches. Yeah, cool, cool stuff, good questions. Everybody really enjoyed this one. Yeah. I love the voicemails and the written questions were great, fantastic stuff. And again, if you would like to ask us a question, do it do it? We love to answer this sort this. These are actually my favorite episodes because it's just hanging out shooting the poop with Bobs Man. So yeah, if you have a question, go to Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com and hit the contact button.
Give us a question, we'll answer it on the air, give us a voicemail, we'll play it on the air, and of course there will be links in the show notes as well. So do that and in fulfill your life dream of asking us a question. Yeah all right, So why don't we go and do a member section only, because again, if you're a member of Bigfoot and Beyond, you can ask us a question that'll be answered in the members of course, you could also ask us in the regular episode
whatever you'd like to do with it. You guys remembers, do whatever you want. So another than that's see, I'm gonna be in Gatlinburg, like in the twenty second or something to July whatever the weekend that is, So mark your calendars, you know, phone the neighbors, wake the kids, tell them about that. Come on out and see me in Gatlinburg. And that'll be in a couple of weeks here. But it's time to plan ahead. I always announced my dates a little bit too late so nobody can go.
But this time I'm trying to get ahead of that one, So I guess that's it. Sounds like it you want to take us out of here, all right, folks, thanks for tuning in listening again. We really appreciate when you hit like and you hit share and recomon us, so people that might be interested in this topic, and especially the Patreon supporters, thank you very much. And until next week, y'all, keep it squatchy.
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