Big Food and be on with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so like Shay, subscribe and read it five stad us today and listening watching always keep it Sclatchy and now your hosts Cliff Berkman and James Bobo Fey. Thanks to next Evo for supporting our show. Try next Evo Naturals, capsules, gummies, mints and topical creams. Upgrade your CBD go to next evo dot com slash Bigfoot to get twenty percent off your first order of forty
dollars or more. Good evening, Good day, Bobo, How are you good? Dan? Good? How's it going with you? All right? Man? Just settling in after a pretty long day at work. I'm a little tired by my brain's a little fuzzier at this point after work and everything. Um, it's as fuzzy on the insides as my head is on the outside. But I'm sure we'll meander off into various topics, topics and stuff
because this is the topical episode. We do it semi occasionally, probably once every couple of months, whenever we feel like it, and where we kind of go through newspaper articles or you know, news articles, of some sort,
because newspapers are rare things, probably rare than sasquatches are nowadays. But we have a number of articles that we thought were interesting in one way or another, and we all been emailing them around, and we're just going to go through them and talk about them and how they pertain to the Sasquatch, if they do at all, and if they don't, then we're gonna just talk about why we think they're interesting. So we'll try to give sources,
and we'll try to expand on them a little bit. Hopefully we'll we'll all we all will have learned something by by the time we're done, although I can't count on that one. First one, it comes from Science. It is actually a journal article published in Science in February of twenty twenty three, and it talks about I like this one a lot. This is one of the ones that I gave to us. It basically talks about the expanded geographic
distribution and dietary strategies of the earliest Old One hominins and paranthropists. That's a lot of a lot of syllables in there for our listeners in here, So let me tell you what's actually going on. Basically, here's the deal, and you can see pretty quickly how this will tie into sasquatches. I think, because as most people who listen to this note, I am of the opinion, and its course, it's just opinion. There's no data to support
this. At this point, I speculate that Sasquatches are relict paranthropists. At this point. Everybody else seems to like to go the gigant Epithecus route, and maybe they're right, but there's not a whole lot of evidence for that. For that either, I am firmly in the paranthropist camp. Paranthropist is a hominin. Hominin is a fancy pant's words, a word for anything on
our family tree, no matter how far away that branch is. Ever since humans split from our last common ancestru with chimpanzees about six million years ago, give or take a little bit, so anything on our family tree, which includes things like Neanderthals or Denisovans, or things like Homorectus or Homo habilists, and even the Australopithesines. The Australopithesnes were an early Homo nin there's that word again. They were so different from us they don't even qualify for the Homo
genus. The first one of us that had the Homo genus was Homo habilists, and the transition from Australopitheesnes into Homo habilists, of course, is a consequence of smaller dentation, smaller jaws because before Homo habilists, you know, they have pretty robust jaws and for chewing and whatnot, but also a larger brain size because Australopitheesnes were basically upright chimpanzees, you know, plus a little bit but not much, but plus a little bit based on the volume of
their brain case. And when Homo habilists kicked in, well, they had some special features there. They domesticated fire, basically they could control and create fire. They also had a wide array of tool use and whatnot, which is what we're getting to here with this article, because basically tool use is attributed to Homo habilists, and I kind of the earliest tools are called old Dowan tools, named after a place in Eastern Africa where they were I believe
initially discovered. It's the olda Vi gorge in Tanzania is what old tools are named after. Um and they're basically imagine taking a rock of some sort, hitting it with another rock, A pretty crude like a chip would come off, and that chip is sharper than the round rock that you made it out of. So that's basically the gist of what old Wan tools are about.
The earliest ones that we knew about until just recently was about we're about two point six million years ago, and these are the earliest tools, the earliest tool technology that we're aware of, you know, out of except for sticks and stuff like that. But the deal is is that they uncovered new fossilized Well, the Older One tools aren't gonna be fosilized because they're already rocks,
but they uncovered Oldowan tools that dated about three million years ago. And the thing about it that makes us special is the we don't know exactly what made these Older one tools, but paranthropists paranthropists fossils were discovered in the same strata as the tools, suggesting perhaps that they were the ones responsible for making the
Older One tools. Well, that's interesting because it's intertaining them me at least, because I'm always looking for evidence that might support my hypothesis that sasquatches are just a relic form of paranthropists. There's some problems with that, but I've talked about this in the podcast before. I don't think I need to go
into it too far. But you know, sasquatches haven't really been observed using tools so much beyond the basics, you know, beyond using rocks to smash open clams, which is what sea otters do, so that's not that special. You know, they've been seeing carrying sticks around, but never using them
for anything. To my knowledge, I don't know what they're using them for, but it seems reasonable since they certainly share a common ancestor with chimpanzees and the other ape species, and they use various tools like pieces of grass and sticks and whatnot for going into termite mounds and you know, doing this and that. Or gorillas have been observed using sticks to test how deep water is before they cross that sort of thing. So certainly sasquatches use sticks for something.
Maybe they use them for banging on trees, we don't know. There have been a couple observations of them doing that. Paranthropists using tools, that'd be a big deal. That'd be a really big deal. And as far and what I wouldn't say it would shatter or totally ruin my hypothesis as sasquatches or parantherpists, because I chose paranthropist because you know, if it seems to me that fire and tool use fashioning tools and using them, those adaptations would
be just too useful to get rid of once they've been acquired. So I wanted to look before Homo habilists, the first homanent that we knew until just recently, we're doing this sort of thing, this behavior. I thought that that made reasonable sense, and I think it still does make reasonable sense. But if paranthropists are universally using tools, well then there's an issue. We got to look somewhere else for a common ancestor or an ancestor of sasquatches.
And it's also entirely possible that various cultures of paranthropists used tools, but not all of them. Say, for example, that parantherpist Robustis somehow figured out how to use these tools, but parantherpist boise I never did. Because there are three or so species of paranthropians out there. Yeah, so we don't know, we don't know. But sasquatches, I would say, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Bobo. That's part of the reason you're
here is to correct me when I'm wrong about things. Not a lot of reports of them using tools be on the basics. Do you have anything in your vast rolodex of citing in your brain of hoasquatch is using tools for anything? Much beyond what I mentioned. I've heard. I've heard a couple of people claiming they've seen him opening up a elk or you know, some kind of angle with a sharp, sharp edged rock and just slicing up in the belly. But one guy was Patchy or novelho or somewhere down around in four
corners, he claimed. I talked to him. I never forgot it was like contact information. It was just like in front of a store or gas station or something. He said, Yeah, you know, he took the rock and he slit it just right right up the belly, and he said it was a sharp looked like a you know, like an old hand tool style. Well, you know, that's exactly what these were used for. That's exactly what these old one tools were used for. They're pretty crude,
I mean, they're there. They represent some of the earliest technology that was fashioned by our hands and they're basically choppers, scrapers and cutting tools. Um, so that might actually lies square in this wheelhouse here, so to speak. Um that if if that observation is valid, um, that kind of that that's this, you know, that's what we're talking about here. If if the sasquatch made the tool right, he just could have found a rock and that that was you know whatever, it was an avalanche, it got
chipped up, coming down, landed like that or whatever. I mean, So it doesn't mean he made it, but he rectus. I mean he still had the capacity to process it's potentially used and to apply it right. Yeah, now you know, Um, I've heard of other kills like deer kills and whatnot being discovered in various places where the skin seemed to have been
sliced in various ways. And I have it in my head. I don't know if it was because somebody told me they observed this, or or if it was it was as if the sasquatch did this, But um, I have it in my head that it was sliced, cut with a nail, like a thumbnail or something like. Yeah, I heard I've heard that. I've heard of the thumbnail. One you've heard that. I'm not making that up good, so that because yeah, all right, my my refriend. You know, it's hard for me to retrieve stuff from the depths of my
memory sometimes. So you've heard that then before? Oh yeah, for sure. Can you remember anything else about what you heard? One of it was a domestic animal. It might have been a horse. Hmm okay that the sasquash broke its neck like you know, jumped on it and snapped his head around and broke its neck and then just made a fist and stuck its stumb out and like lift it up the back leg and just went right down the belly. Pretty sharp nails, man, Yeah, that's what nails are for.
Yeah. Yeah. And then even something blunt, you know, can with enough strength, can puncture something like that. There's a couple of hands handcasts in the set now that that show nails. So if these things are protruding like a quarter inch past the end of their thumb or so, that's probably all you need. Well high high could be pretty thick, like horse
hide or you know, especially like a moose or something or bear. Yeah, yeah, but a little bit of sharp It's not like they has to be raised or sharp, just has to be nail sharp, combined with this crazy strength that they have pushing through. Yeah, we couldn't cut through it with something like that, like if we had the equivalent. No, no, despite my own immense strength, No, you know, I have the
strength of ten men, ten very very very weak men. I got the strength of ten men, two dogs, and a small child, all at once or separately, at any even time, separately, separately, it depends on the time. Yeah, you know, I hear all these miracle health things or whatever, and it's always good to look into it for yourself and do a little bit of research. Doing a research before you buy means making better informed choices, especially when it comes to stress or sleep products like CBD.
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Upgrade your CBD Go to next evo dot com slash Bigfoot to get twenty percent off of your first order of forty dollars or more. That's twenty percent off forty dollars or more at n e x t e vo dot com slash bigfoot, sasquatches and tool use. What else do we have? I mean we have it. We have them breaking freshwater clams or probably saltwater clams with rocks for the ternise. Now do we have a report of that or is that
just an assumed behavior? Yeah? Yeah, when I talked to that, Yeah, I talked to three different people on the Apache Reservation that side. I've seen reports. People have written, um, you know all the ones I've seen it in southwest Arizona, New Mexico, that area. Okay, interesting, what else we have anything? So the fingernails and the splitting the hide open, that's something say that. One guy said that he saw one
with a possible rock tool. But you know, if they're making these things, wouldn't we be finding a lot more of these things, because you know, archaeologists are out there looking for these as evidence of you know, indigenous occupation of the land from you know, past feelings. Wouldn't we be finding a lot more of these things of Sasquatches are around doing them, you'd imagine, Um, I don't think they did that, but but Pauli's dug up
some. He's really into the Sasquatches uses fire, but they're just very very careful about it. Really. Yeah, he found some and I thought too, like writings about where they when they did the first when the first interviews, when the when the first half apologists came out to the West coast,
they're interviewing the tribal members. They were saying that the hills used to have smoke popping up all over from the Sasquatch fires when they had their they had their cats, but that when the wet man came with their guns, they quit using fire because the white man could find him too easy. Is this in one of his two big Foot books? Or is this like just a personal conversation you've had with them, or I think he's written it somewhere.
He's talked about it on his YouTube channel. I'm sure, but I talked to him about it. I know I've seen it somewhere with him, but I've talked to him about it in person. And I said, yeah, I saw the same citation, and I said but yeah, I don't. I don't know, Like it's not to say about that because and then he writes about in his first book, I think it was about finding a fire where there was on a sand bar near by there was huge tracks with like
a six foot stride. It's pretty flimsy, I mean, it's not. I mean, I guess if that was your personal experience, and you'd say, and that was on the climate the river actually with his dad back in like the late sixties or something, he was a little boy. His dad was like a hard ass outdoorsman, like badass dude, and his dad really studied the tracks, looked real concerned and then grabbed him by the hand, which he never did, and walked him back to their boat and they took
off and there they're on some remote sandbars. Sound like it was somewhere done on the Peque area. I guess, Yeah, it's certainly the right zone. But yeah, I don't know. I might I might need more than a secondhand story for that one. Yeah, It's just one are those things that it seems that if that they were doing it, we would that That's one of those things that I think would pop up more often. That's exactly know, because yeah, because they definitely get we does they get cold because
they go sleep in barns and all kinds of stuff. I mean, they definitely can get cold. So it's hard to People always say I found evidence that they're having a fire in a cave, but that that fire could have that cave could have been used, you know, thirty thousand or whatever, twenty thousand years ago and it still looks like it. You can tell how long ago the fire happened. No now, because no wind, A lot of wind or water erosion in a lot of caves. So yeah, so
it's hard to I mean, it's not hard to say. I mean it's it's hard to say that they do it. I guess it's you know, what do you what do your what are your thoughts on sasquatches? Uh? Using caves on a regular basis instead of just popping in every once in a while. I think they use them when they when the weather's you know, severe hot or cold. I don't like people go I see people talking all the time, we're writing about you know, chats and stuff like, you
know, they use the case. They've got these transportation systems. It's like, why would they stumble around these dark, dangerous holes that are totally inefficient to travel, like, you know, compared to when they can just fly above not fly fly, but I mean move quickly above ground and not you know, just like, why would they be crawling. I mean, watch speed linkers they're crawling for you know, wedge and somebody these gas where people
go. There's no way an adult, big fuck could fit through those gaps, you know, And it just doesn't make sense to me that they'd go deep into the case. I mean, I don't see him. I don't see him going in deeper than like I haven't even heard of a big foot
and sping more than like fifty yards in at the most. No, the people who've I've asked that same question, you know, and they say, oh, well they have night vision, so yeah, but you need some light, no matter no matter how good your night vision is, you need some light. You can't there's no such things complete darkness in that sort of way, you know, they just wouldn't be able to function. And there's
no no food down there. I mean. The Sun is basically the source of all energy on the planet, right, all energy and the planet comes from the Sun. In one way, or another. Um. You know, your food is a product of the sun, you know, chlorophyll and all that sort of stuff, and you know, um photosynthesis and all that jazz um, whether it passes through meat or not later you know, because cows eat these and there's just none none of that is down there, so
there's nothing for them there. It just doesn't make sense to me. I think it. I think all this cave stuff because when people say, oh, well, you know there's this I think there's a big foot in this area or whatever. I heard vocalizations. Yeah, there's a lot of caves in the area too. That generally comes in with with with unspoken assumption that that would be indicative of possible sasquatches in the area. It's like, well, I don't know, maybe, but um, it just doesn't make sense
to me that. But I think it all comes from this idea of cave men. You know, that that's sort of the archetype of a caveman, that these are primitive people of some sort or whatever, if you want to call it that, and and therefore they probably use caves because cavemen. It's like, well, I don't know, I don't see the connection. I just don't buy it. No, they don't. They don't live with you
know what I mean? They could. Certainly when it's one hundred and fifteen degrees they're gonna if there's a cave, they're gonna dip in there for rest and you know, spend the day there before they come out at night when it cools off. That makes total sense. Or if it's twenty below and blowing cold, you know, go back in a ways and you know it's thirty five degrees whatever. Yeah, and that that stuff makes sense. It's
just one of these human inventions. I think that it gets a juxtaposed upon the sasquatch model, just like another real common question I get here in the shop is well where do they live? So well, they live anywhere they look. They don't live anywhere in particular. They're not like us in that sort of way. They have a territory instead of a location they return to every day. I think, yeah, well, you know, the next news topic that we ran across that we thought was of interest and possibly pertin
into the Sasquatch thing, it was all over. Of course, this is a study, so it gets reported in more than one news source, but this one the one I read the article. I read what Happened to be published in The Guardian on February seventeenth, twenty twenty three, and the title is this humans may need more sleep in winter. Study finds yes, and people are going, yeah, okay, well the so what you know? So people get lazy during the summer or during the wintertime and they need more
sleep. So well that I think it has something that has them bearing on the sasquatch thing, because what we expect out of our own body, like our own physiological situation, if we need more sleep during winter, it's entirely likely that sasquatches and all the other greade apes probably do the same thing. Now, of course, most of the other great apes, the vast majority, if not actually all of the other extant apes that most scientists accept as
real, they're all tropical. They're all tropical, and that's something that we forget a lot. I think we being people, we forget a lot about that because since the other apes are tropical, and since the other apes are largely vegetarian, people assume that sasquatches should be tropical and are probably vegetarian.
And that's not the case at all. Because what people don't realize is there were hundreds and hundreds of species of apes back in the day, you know, thousands of years ago, and we're looking now at the last remnants of all of the apes. So you know, Benobo's, chimpanzees, orangutans, guerrillas, gibbons. I think that's it, man. I think five species
of apes besides humans. Five species is all we have left. And only the human has a worldwide distribution here because of technology and tool use and are arguably superior intellect a speci who's that well, yeah, yeah, well I
was talking about accepted species. How's that? Yeah, But because these other species, the very very few that are left are relict species, relic species, which is what a sasquatch is. A relic relic, of course, is a biological term that means still persisting in small numbers, even though they were probably once more widespread. And that's exactly what we're looking at. That's what gorillas are, that's what chimpanzees and bona bows are. That's what these
animals are. They are relic species. There are tongues more apes back in the day, and many of them lived in temperate climates, probably most of them are many of them lived in cold climates. Apes were all over the place. I think a quote from doctor Meldrin's book is something more or less like it was literally a planet of the apes in what the Miocene period or
something like that. Remember, right, So we shouldn't expect sasquatches to hold on to the to to follow suit in these you know, five species that we have left that are still persisting. There's no reason to expect that, but we would expect them to have to have whatever whatever we have in common with these other species, we probably have in common with a lot of the other species that were extinct or and also by what when we look at ourselves
we can look for those other things in the other ape species. That makes a lot of people uncomfortable, of course, because there's this thing like we're not apes. Cliff always says we're apes and blah blah blah. It's our family, man. You know. It's like saying like you are not your your mom or your dad, but you're related to them. It's your family. It's okay, it's okay, it's cool. We would rather be related
to apes than say, canids or feelines. I would, at least so I don't know, but the fact that we seem to need more sleep in winter that made me start thinking, well, we know that sasquatch sighting reports drop pretty dramatically in January and February, and certainly part of the reason for that would be human activity. You know, there are fewer humans out in
their habitat at that time of year. It's just unpleasant. There's snow everywhere, and you know, some people like snow, but you know a lot of people don't, and it's hard to get in there, you can't use
the roads, and blah blah blah. So there's a million reasons why people wouldn't be in these areas during the depth of winter, and certainly that does affect that does affect the number of siding reports that come out, because remember, every siding report that has ever been told to anybody that you've ever read, is a magical series of events, as a perfect storm, if you
will. A sasquatch has to be in a place where a human is, and that human has to see the sasquatch and then later tell somebody about it who is going to publish it so you can read about it. That is a very unlikely set of circumstances, but yet we have siding reports, so that's kind of cool. So could part of this, could part of this be, could part of the drop just a little bit, maybe a slight influence on these numbers. Could it be that sasquatches just are not active anymore
during that time of year, aren't nearly as active. There are sightings in January and February. People do see them. I found foot I found in cass Foot Princess past February, we know, but also I wasn't in snow. It was at the snow line. But I could it be that these things are just less active because a lot of times in the shop here people ask do they hibernate? It's a good question. Do they hibernate? Well, I don't think so, because there are sightings in January in February.
Well, they can hibernate partially like bears get up and walk around sometimes in the middle of winter. Yes, that's true, that's true. But really I think that I've always kind of favored the idea of torpor. Torpor is the idea that they're they're just much much less active. I know that I am less active during the wintertime because I'm not out walking around and doing all the lousy weather and getting all wet and cold and all that sort of stuff.
I do think the sasquatches do limit their activity and certainly change their diet during winter time. But could it be that there's a sleep more too, That's that wouldn't be hibernation. Could we do that? We also need more sleep. Apparently the total sleep time and winter for humans that the humans in this study at least was about an hour or more, an hour and more
every single night, more or less. And by the way, I want to point out that this sort of thing is tied to the circadian rhythm, right, which is a different thing because because if you're living in town or actually nowadays pretty much everybody, we're domesticated. We've domesticated ourselves. Our sleep cycle is no longer timed necessarily to the sun, you know, which is what the circadian clock is all about. You know, it gets dark,
we go to sleep, it gets light, we wake up. That's kind of what that whole trip is. Even for people who live in rural areas who are a little bit more close to the circadian clock, like the natural rhythm of things, everybody kind of tends towards another hour of sleep. But what really matters is that on average people were we're getting about thirty extra minutes of rim sleep, which is a good sleep. That's what we want. That's when you're dreaming and there's a lot of brain that we might dream.
There's a lot of brain activity at the time, and that's what's really refreshing to the brain. That's one of the reasons we go to sleep. It's a refresh everything. So people are receiving more rim sleep during winter, and I kind of wondered, like, Okay, what does that have to do as sasquatch as if anything, And it might it might affect the number of Sasquatches who are out walking around in some sort of way. I've always thought.
I've always thought there was you know, getting into that tour Port state to some degree, because I mean, you can't really compare you're sitting, you're finding prints around, you're in the winter. That's a whole different ballume than Northern Manitoba. Oh yeah, sure is. I mean where it's just below freezing for like five months or whatever, and like you know, below below zero for many days, you know, for what maybe below zero for sixty days a year at least up there. I mean, they don't want
to be out in that stuff. They don't have to. Yeah, And of course if they are less active, like sleeping for example, or even if they just hang out, you know, maybe they make a den somewhere. Because remember the second nest site at the Olympic Project site, the second nest site that was discovered, I feel pretty strongly that it was repurposing a bear den at the time. So if it's looking for a little hidey hole to hang out in and stay, warming up and kind of cuddle up in
and then kind of come out everyone. And by the way, no snow, well, snow does happen there, but not a lot. It's pretty much right where you'd expect that the snow line to be. I think that that that's a real possibility that these things are just kind of hungering down. It was in a little hidey hole. You said, Well, the second nest site, there were a lot of nesting material down by this log, and underneath the log there was a hole and under and the sasquatch was apparently
digging out the hole and inside the hole it was a bear den. We've got bare hair out of there. There were some scratch marks behind and stuff. It was a bear den as far as I'm concern. That was my interpretation of what we were. But the thing is, it wasn't a bear that d Of course skeptics would go, oh, well, the whole thing was a bear situation. No, No, it wasn't. Because there was
a pile of dirt outside of the hole. You know, imagine like laying on the ground and digging and reaching your arm into this hole and then pulling dirt out and making a pile of dirt outside the hole. I think that term is tailings if I remember right. There was a handprint, a big ass handprint right in the middle of the tailings when we got there. So it is pretty and and sasquatch footprints at the site also underneath the bedding material when you cast a handprint, Sure I did. Yeah, I knew that.
I mean I forgot. You were just testing me. No, I'm trying to think you said, you said it was really big. I thought the handprint wasn't that you wasn't that that big. There were two sets of handprints. There was a left and or rights that found about fifty yards away from the nest site on a hill, and there was one actually at the
nest site itself. When you when you're saying log, I was picturing like a big old growth seedar or something like that was laying almost on the ground, and then they dug out underneath like I see in the Redwoods bears have done there. No, No, it's a kind of a small one. Yeah, it's a smaller log, and it's it's what four or five feet off the ground at least, not even not even that much, not even that much, probably about two about three two and a half feet off the
ground probably. Oh, so it's a really small log, it is, So they weren't getting they weren't really getting any protection from the weather from that well inside there, inside there, like if he stuck your head in there, which I did, of course, it goes back about three feet, and if you look to the left and right, it goes another two or three feet in directions about five five and a half feet left to right.
But yeah, but I think these sound squatches are kind of like getting little hidy holes and hanging out, not in caves that we just went over that, but little hidy holes and bared ends and little cracks and crevices like all the other animals do, because the smaller in area that they are in, the faster it will heat up. Yeah, you know, and I think they just kind of lay low, because I know I do that during the
wintertime. You know, I'd lay low and hang out in the house and you know, um, and I limit my activity, which, of course for sasquatches would be very important because they wouldn't be using all the calories that they get. And they probably also changed their diet quite dramatically. They'd have to because there's no berries and all that other stuff, and all the apple trees aren't producing, so they would have to vary their diet and go after
things that are either low low nutritional value or meat. I think that they tend towards meat during the wintertime, but they also might be sleeping more, you know what. That's something that bothers me about the whole like them in the winter is like, we don't find these speak food cashes like you think you would, you know, like especially way north. I mean maybe they haven't hidden really really well, you know, like and so bears can't get
raccoons can't get them. Whatever they put them in holes or you know, cave openings that block with a giant rocket and other animal can move, I mean, like including humans without tools. I mean, how often even heard of some sin they found a food cat's like a real like a like a
larger set up for winter, like zero pretty much. I mean the closest thing I can think of are those weird snow mounds from the Sierras that Barcatino and Robert Meierman we're talking about for them for a minute, but that those are the only tape the only times those were ever found. Well, then Matt found a gentle pile like ten twelve deer all frozen together in Ohio.
They had like winds ripped off and stuff. Yeah, I can't say that I've heard about any cashes besides that, you know, Yeah, that's that's what That's the one thing that really Squirrels, birds, they you know, they a lot of animals, beavers, you know, they would ever build up food cashes to get up through tough times. And you think the squatch would, especially if they were like going to just be hanging out in a cave or some other you know, sort of protected area, you think they'd
have some kind of food food cash available. Yeah, but if they did, that would just invite scavengers and they would have to compete for that's problematic. But then again also might be a bait as well. You know. But it's like, you know, if if they can bring in you know, weasels and rats and a bear or something like that, why wouldn't they
just eat those? Yeah, because it reminds me of those rock piles that were found out in New Mexico where the native people are saying no, no. They make these rock piles to collect rodents for the winter season, and then they just rip apart the rock piles and eat the hibernating rodents, kind of like at the Glenn Thomas site. I don't know if you'd come out of food cash though, I mean, that's just I don't know. I mean, it's the same idea, and it's it's brilliant's genius, you know.
As soon as I said, I rang in my head like that's true. When the first time I heard that, it does make sense. And if they have that's kind of foresight, that's pretty cool to be doing that sort of thing. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. This is the next one. The next one, to me was the most interesting. One of the articles was the study finding the ancient gene to discovered the girl who had a parent there
are two different species. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of a big deal. Oh it's a huge deal. I mean, I mean it says right in the article. I mean, but I remember I was listening to it or reading it. I mean, when I was reading it, I was thinking, like if they if they found out just a two dozen specimens, they found it like that like the holy Grail, so speak for that for that field of study. I mean that that means it had to be happening a lot. Yeah, yeah, but that you know, let's let's talk
about the article first and catch people up in case they don't know. They haven't they haven't read this basically, Um, you probably heard about this a few weeks ago. If you're paying attention to anything in paleoanthropology, which I strongly recommend you do, if you're interested in bigfoot, you really should be studying a little bit of paleoanthropology. Um, you just you just should, because you learned so much about possibilities for Sasquatch and what our ancestors were doing,
and then a little bit about us. And it's just a field that in fact, you know, if I had to, if I had to do my schooling, my college over again, and I would probably go into something about paleo anthropology. That's how important I think this is to the subject that I choose to study, which is the Bigfoot thing. Basically, there was a cave in Siberia and they found some bone fragments from hominins. There's
that word again. I'd defined it earlier in the same broadcast. It is everything on our family tree since we since our last common ancestor with the chimpanzees about six thousand years or six six million years ago. So that's what a hominin is. It is. So in a cave in Siberia, they found some bone fragments of some hominins, and then one scientist took some of the bones. She got DNA out of it. She pulverized a little bit of this bone fragment. It was just a little bone fragment. Wasn't a femur
or a skull or anything. It's just a little bone fragment pulverized a little piece of this bone fragment and basically found out that this was the rarest of the rare. This is the holy grail of a lot of the topics in paleo anthropology. We've all heard that Homo sapiens, that's us. Homo sapiens are humans species, that's what humans are. Human. A lot of humans on the planet have Neandertal DNA in them because our ancestors interbred with neanderthals um.
I have Neandertal's DNA, and I know that because I did the DNA stuff from my parents, and I know they're a little that's not exactly a scientific thing. The twenty three in medial my dad had one point seven percent neandertal. My mom had one point five. That's pretty strong indicator that I have it right. But we all do. If you're of European descent,
you are you almost certainly have Neandertal mixed in you somewhere. But there's this other critter, there's this other relative of ours called the denisovan Um, and and they're they're fascinating because we know almost nothing about them. We know more about sasquatches and we know about dennisovans at this point, although we do have unlike sasquatches, we do have completely um like thoroughly studied DNA. We have
the entire genome, I believe, all before us. And the discovery of the Denisovans is super interesting to me as well, because a fingerbone was discovered in a cave also in Siberia, by the way, a fingerbone was discovered in a cave, and they just thought it was neandertal, you know, they just thought it was the indertal thing. And somebody had the bright idea to check out the DNA on this thing, and it was something they had
never seen before. It clearly was not neandertal. So they named the species Denisovans because I think the cave was named denisov or something like that. Yeah, And for a while all we had of homodenisovan, this brand new relative, brand new human species that were really closely related to and also we inner bread with as well. I know the people will, I'll get back to them, but the only the only thing we had from this new species was
this partial fingerbone. Fingerbone then Moore has been discovered since through DNA testing. In fact, they even did they did e DNA on caves and found neandertal and homodenisovan DNA in the dirt on the bottom of caves, no bone fragments or anything in the dirt itself. Then somebody was digging around and they found a jawbone, a mandible that it was in a museum or some collection drawers somewhere. It was discovered in nineteen eighty five, and it turns out,
oh, that's homodenis ovan. They misidentified it, and I and that's I think that's a little foreshatting. So I bet that. I bet you a dollar bones, and I think I probably wouldn't bet against you. I think you're on my team on this one. I bet you that's going to happen at the Sasquatch as well. When we get bones and DNA and went out of Sasquatches, they're going to look at some of these other weird bones they have in collection, retest them and say, oh, my gosh, we've
had a Sasquatch bones since nineteen forty eight or something like that. I think there's any quite a few of those. Yeah, I think it's going to be an interesting thing. But okay, so anyway, that's Homodenis Oven, this other human species that we know almost nothing about. We have almost almost no bones, and but what we do have is some DNA. We know we know a little bit about them through DNA. So this this the scientists does a DNA test in this bone fragment that they got in a cave in
Siberia and lo and behold. It is really really special because it shows that its mother was Anandertal and its father was a Denisovan. Okay, so it makes sense that if humans were, you know, getting jiggy with various other species of hominins, like our close relatives at the time, it seems that it makes sense that these two would have an occasional fling as well, neander
tools and dennis Ovans. But the thing is, this is a very rare fine because the DNA indicates that literally its mother was a was Anandertal and its father was a denis Oven. It's not like this happened six or seven generations before. This is the direct offspring of these two species, and they name hers. Apparently it's an adolescent female, probably died around thirteen years of age
Denisova eleven. And I don't know this for a fact. But looking at the number, the number Denisova eleven, that tells me that this might be the eleventh sample of dennis ovn. Yeah. Yeah, twenty three to twenty three total. Oh kid, Well, there you go. We have practically nothing of dennis Ovans twenty three fragments of bones and various fossils. Not bad. And the fact that that that we got lucky enough basically to find an
example where the mother was one species and the father was another. Maybe that does indicate, as you suggested earlier, but that maybe it happened kind of all the time you think, I mean, what's the odds, what's the odds of finding a direct descendant? I mean, that's just I mean, they test, it's how many bone fragments are there? Not that many, you know, And it's just it's just incredible to think the odds to find that direct first generation to sendate. It's just it's it's hard to fathom.
And it almost seems like I know they, I know they you know, they proved it, but it's just still hard to even believe. Yeah, but you know that that makes me reflect back upon um I was discussing human neandertal interbreeding with doctor Meldrum. This is a few years ago, and he brought up something and says, well, everybody's making such a big deal of
it, and of course it is important. He's not trying to take away from the importance of the discovery and what that could mean, etc. But he also said, to me, what make what is really fascinating to me, Cliff, is that why it didn't happen more often? Maybe it did? Yeah, maybe this because of the chances. The chances are so low. Maybe it did happen a lot more often. I don't find it hard
to believe at all. And lust is lust. Yeah, Like remember these weren't even the same species, but you know that they would look like us. You know. It's funny is when they showed an excavation site and you know it's over in Russia. They got all this stuff in there, all the scientists, and the computer monitor they have is like a nineteen ninety one small screen, like where the it's deeper, like the depth from the screen of the back is longer than it is wide. Oh yeah, yeah,
it's not one of these flat screens. Yeah. You know, I don't know if I saw the same picture as you remember a photograph in the same excavation or not, but they were. It seemed to there there seemed to be about a half dozen scientists in a trough, like a three foot wide, four foot deep trough, digging around doing stuff. Um And when I looked at that as thinking, gosh, I wonder what fantastic, amazing discoveries lie just two or three feet to their left, that was drive archaeologists just
crazy goingway we got all this. I'm just right here and look there and there, and they're like everywhere. I mean, there's so little there's I mean, it's such a tiniest fraction that the Earth Service has been inspected by archaeologists. I mean, it's it's you can't I mean, it's it's like a grain of sand on a beach that you know, it's probably more than that even. I mean, it's just unbelievably that we got this much information for how little we've done. I mean, the answers are all there.
We just probably bulldozed them or you know, pave over it or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, maybe some day will have Nico Um, the manager here at the shot back on because he's a fossil nerd even as a business called the Fossil team, UM a great business where he does education about you know. UM. I think the slogan is like information from the past informing our present or something like that. So he's a fossil guy, like through and
through dinosaurs and places scene mammals in the whole nine. He has all sorts of crazy stories about, you know, the fossil races of the of the eighteenth or the nineteenth century and uh and destroying sites and all these fossils that were lost to time and whatnot. It's such a shame, such a shame. But but you know, getting back to the topic of the hand here. Um. When I was I read the article, I looked up another one. There was that one you could listen to, but I didn't like
that one at int the time because I was at work. So I was reading when in between customers today and I read something pretty interesting. Um that this this girl that this Denisova eleven, This the little the girl, the thirteen year old or so girl that they got this DNA from whose mother was in the endertal and her father was a Sovan. Upon closer look at her DNA, what they discovered is that she was actually more closely related to a
Neanderthal whose DNA had been sequenced from Western Europe. And mind you, she was in Siberia. She was in Siberia. She was more closely related to a neandertal uncovered in Western Europe than other neandertals found from the same cave she was found in, but from an earlier time. Yeah, I mean, that's just not I mean, that's that's nuts. That's the most nuts part
about the whole thing. And what does that mean? Of course, it means that neandertals apparently were at least some neandertals were moving around a lot more rights, Yeah, than they thought than they thought. Well, now, mind you, mind you that the movement of hominins. Yeah, hominins could
could move quite a bit. They can move great distances, but they wouldn't need to they could they could literally move five miles in a life time, and then twenty generations later you're one hundred miles away, you know, And you know, when you're talking about the geologic time, which is what we're kind of doing here, even fifty thousand years, you know, five miles of fifty thousand years, it's kind of a long distance. It's certainly a
lot further than the Siberia to the Western Europe. But still that's interesting because most of the data so far and uncovered about neander tools indicates that most of their movement was kind of local, like everything they needed was kind of nearby,
so they didn't go very far why would they? And there was evidence there are cannibals and stuff like you wouldn't want to go walk in forever, you know, if you're just up in your chances running into a cannibalistic groove right scary times man like that it would be cool to be a cave man. It's like, oh would it? No? It seems like a very very violent time. Yeah. And also for our listeners out there, we're
going to put all the links to these articles in our show notes. Okay, so if you're interested in any of these, maybe we just piqued your curiosity, you want to go do some deep dive in on this sort of stuff. Just look a couple of these links and fall them around and do some searching. You'll find all sorts of cool stuff. And if you have anything to add to our conversation or questions about what we're talking about, or questions like why are you talking about this? You can always email us at
Big Pin and Beyond podcast at gmail dot com. Yeah. I was gonna say, Cliff, was you know, talk about like seeing like how the genetics spread. I can't wait until we've got sasquatched DNA and they actually start looking at other things that they wrote off as well. It's got human traits, so we're gonna just throw it out as it can't anything about a human When we see, like knowing what with Gareth Patterson down in South Africa having the O tangs and then you know the Yeddy and the it's gonna be so
great when we can genetically map their storyline of how they spread. Yeah, because once the DNA technology became doable, essentially Paylo wentthropology change, you know, because before it was all based on remains found in certain strata and what fossils were associated with it. But now they can actually kind of map where
certain populations moved over time through the DNA itself. And it's really upended a lot of the assumptions and findings and pale anthropology, and it's rewritten a lot of things, and certainly sasquatches are really going to do a number on that on that book, that that whole book's gonna have to be rewritten human ancestry and all that sort of jazz, and I cannot wait as well. That's one of the things I can't wait for in general, because you know,
I'm after bigfoots are proven to be real, which is inevitable. After they are proven to be real, I'm not going to stop doing this. I may, like, you know, stop how on in the woods are making on trees because that will probably be illegal essentially at the time, you know, bothering while all that jazz, But I'm not going to stop looking for footprints and trying to gather data and learning about them at all. That's just
going to make me all more fired up to do so. But I cannot wait for that first you know, documentary that talks about the social structures of Sasquatches with all this footage and all this other evidence and all that sort of jazz. It's gonna be so cool. I mean, that's gonna be but it'll be just as interesting to see like the start of how they spread and like what time periods and who was where, and that's going to be the all of that's just going to be, so get out science. I'm not
gonna live forever. But but you know, that's a great segue to one of our our next story here, which is from Oregon Public Broadcasting OPEBE. It was broadcast on three March twenty third, twenty twenty three, a wolverine was seen right outside of Portland, right outside of Portland. And that's the first time that a wolverine has been documented in the Cascades and this part of the Cascades by Portland, Portland, Oregon here since the nineteen sixties. Yeah.
The last wolverine sighting in the state was twelve years ago in the Wolawa Mountains of the Blue Mountains, basically back east where all those other bigfoot rapports all the Blue Mountains. And one was seen on the Columbia River. I think boaters took a picture of it or something to that. Yeah, And that was just a couple of weeks ago now, and the trip out on this the next or that was on a Monday on Wednesday, they saw another one that they think is the same one, and a very well could be
because they are rare, et cetera. But still they saw it. They saw another one on Wednesday in Damascus, Oregon. Damascus is I don't know, five eight miles from where I'm sitting at this very moment. If I go down Highway to twelve, I go, I go. You know, the NABC here is in Boring, Oregon, But actually we're not in Boring. A lot of people look for us in downtown Boring, but we're not
actually there. We're in an outlying, unincorporated part of Boring, Oregon, right on Highway twenty six and two twelve, right where the intersection is. But if you go down Highway to twelve about two miles, you run into Boring, Oregon, and it is a little town. And it's a little tiny town. There's a there's there's a bar, there's a little restaurant, there's there's not much going on. There's a nurse. Well, you know, nothing against the feed store, but the NABC is probably the most exciting
thing. And Boring, and I love Boring, don't get me wrong. The people are wonderful. And Boring, by the way, was named after some sort of early pioneer whose last name was Boring. I believe the Boring family still is here, by the way. They're around, so they still exist. But anyway, Damascus is the next town. Like you go past Boring on Highway twenty two or two twelve, and I don't know, a few miles after that you run through Damascus, and that's where the wolverine was
seen. Which blows my mind because the wolf, if it is the same wolverine, which is I guess likely, I don't know if it is the same wolverine that was seen on the Columbia River just a little bit east of Portland. Probably the best way to get there would be going straight through Gresham. But I mean that Gresham's a city. Gresham is like suburbia with a town. You know, it had to go around it, probably down the Sandy River, and it's like and it wasn't seen any in those places.
But wolverines are very very rare and very elusive, and they're saying that this thing was probably moving from one habitat to another because during the winter time, I remember we were talking about food cashes just a little while ago. During the wintertime, wolverines are pretty amazing. They can smell dead animals underneath snow like six ten probably more feet of snow, and they burrow down and then they just dig into the animal and bite and eat it up, eat the
bones and everything. They eat bones. They're totally gnarly. They're badasses too. I mean I've seen video of these things sparring with grizzly bears. Yeah. Now, wolverines are big, but they're not that big. I mean they're like a really really big weasel, a tiny, tiny little bear, like a really really big weasel, but they're taking on grizzly bears. Man, these things are gnarly. There's video and fighting off like three five wolves at a time, Like because they got such the part of us is they
got such loose skin. They can like it's like things can bite them and they never get the meat really or the organs. They just get like a big mouthful of skin and fur. Yeah. Like there's a famous video two and the Snow. It's on a snowy open hillside where it jumps on a big I think in a big caribou or a big buck. But anyways, it jumps in lasts. It's probably one eighth the weight of this thing or
so. It just chumps something grabs it by the head and wraps its claws around its head in the top of its neck and it starts chewing on its head and you know it ends up killing this thing. It's like Jesus. I mean because like the males are only like eds, like fifty to sixty pounds, and the females are you know, like twenty five, thirty five, forty. You know, they're they're not that they're they're small. I
mean they're smaller than Socy. Yeah, Soci's sixty five. Yeah, man, i'd feel so I would not want to run into one of those when you're walking your dog. No, No, it'd be cool to see one from a distance. Yeah. Well, you know, Bobs, we have a couple other news articles to go over. Why don't we go over to the Beyond big Foot and Beyond, which is of course our member section um and and and we'll give about forty minutes of that and then we can talk
about news articles over there. Because it's that one hound really pissed me off. I'm going to vent and rage about Oh man, oh, I'm so sorry you're upset, Bob. So I can't wait to hear it. I'm excited about that. All right. Well, I guess that's it. Yeah, if you would like to be a member of big Foot and Beyond.
Just go to Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com and you can hit the membership button, and or you can go to the show notes underneath here and follow the links and it's five bucks a month and you get an extra forty forty five minutes or more of content. Every single week, people are out there saying, oh, they saved the best stuff behind trying to paywall. Well, no, it's not the best stuff. Everything would give you the best stuff, it's just more. If you want more, Cliff and Bobo love,
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