Big food and be on with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so like to subscribe and read it time, stage, day, listening, watching, always keep it squatching and now your hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bobo Fay. Thanks to next Evo for supporting our show. Try next Evo Naturals, capsules, gummies, mints and topical creams. Upgrade your CBD. Go to next evo dot com, slash Bigfoot and get twenty pers off your first order or forty dollars or more. Hello, Hello Bobo, how are
you doing? Excellent? Excellent? What's what makes today so fantastic for you? Anything? Or just like a good mood? Bob's just a good day went down. I met my buddy. He's a school principal and he had a little nine year old guy who lost his dad and he's in a big Foot big time. So we took him down. He's into like tracking and stuff. He went down to the beach and we're like doing a little practicing tracking through the sand stuff like that. Hung out for a couple of hours.
Was it was cool? He was all stuck. Yeah, I guess he's been pretty he's been pretty bummed out, So I thought him like real happy. I think that's understandable if he lost his dad. Yeah, yeah, for sure, doing something good for somebody else, that's fantastic. Boops. Yeah, that's always the best saying totally totally. Yeah. If you feel crappy about something anything, then yeah, do something good for somebody else, and he usually pulls you out of it exactly. That had some cool
stuff happened this past week or so, I guess. The first thing is I was checking cameras on my property, you know, and we have another resident mountain lion hanging out. We got him about three or four times over a period of a week and a half two weeks. And then literally the day I went and checked my cameras and got the mountain lion, I put one of these on the my Facebook, I guess too. So I think I did. I could be wrong about that, or Melissa did Melissa Melissa
did? There you go? I can't remember. I get I get she, I get her and me mixed up all the time. You know, we are a unit of as one. But um, it's funny. The day I went and checked the cameras and then getting got the footage and all that stuff. Uh. Nico, the manager here at the North American big Foot Center, he texted me like a ten or ten thirty at night because he was coming down the road out of Sandy, this this road called a ten ike. Um. He was coming down the road and a mountain lion
ran out in front of his car and uh. And being a big footer or being a legit big footer like Nico is, he had a dash cam, so he got it on. He got it on dash cam, which is pretty cool. And you know that that's about, you know, three miles or so from where I lived, three or four miles probably at the most. Um, so it's probably the same cat. So we've got a big cat in the neighborhood roaming around doing stuff, which is kind of cool.
Yeah. Yeah, Well, you know we're watching her pretty close, and you know when when she goes out, you know, to take care of business or whatever. I'm I'm always there. I'm like a helicopter dad down right, Yeah, a helicopter dad. And if I if I had my way, I'd give Soci a trophy for participation like all the other helicopter moms. And Dad's out there. Um, yay. But you know what, there's something else too. I finally got to the woods again this week
because the weather's been snotty. Man, the weather's been kind of nasty. It's snowed this week. It's snowed. It's April. It's April, you know. But yeah, I got out in the woods with Keith. We went to a new area called the Secret Swamp because you know we nickname everything and that this this area produced a footprint last um May. Yeah, so we okay, let's go check out that area. You know, are a lot of most are other spot the bogs, you know, all snowed in
and stuff. There's nowhere else to go. So we went down way down the Clackamus, you know, pretty far down there, almost as far as you can go at this point because it's still not open between Sakada and Detroit, and um, there's this one little you would never even know it's there. It's like off the beaten path. There's this like side swamp on the side of the road and there's no indication that it's there. I told we
found it on accident at one point, um. And so we went there, um and sure enough we found a trackway we found a track way another track way. It's pretty cool. At first, We're thinking, God, it is that? Is that a boot? Like? Who's walking? Like why why would somebody stop here? Of course we stop there, but like why would somebody stop here? Um? But I don't, but you know, you know how you can tell like exactly freaks like me or something. Um. But like the right foot, you know, like like a boot
or whatever, it has a nice rounded front to it. This had a slanty front, you know, and it slanted like a right foot and a left foot with the big toe off one side. The hellos um and the princes were about thirteen inches long or something and real loose forest stuff, but some of them were real deep and real big. We found about two one, two, three, four or five, six or eight of them or something like that. And it was going down towards the swamp from the side
of the road, you know. Um. And then so we oh, let's go down to swamp and this swamp. Um, there's a pool of water there. And really it's a big muddy area this time of year because the skunk cabbage and the other plants have not really come up yet, because snow is there. Pretty recently and we found probably another dozen footprints down there. None of them were super distinct or anything, you know, but like nice big rounded heels, rounded it like on the back, but also underneath.
So that's another way that we're pretty sure. Maybe I could be wrong, you know, I'm pretty sure though that that was not a boot, because boots tend to have flat bottoms, and these had rounded bottoms on the heels, and and there were some visible toes and a couple of these or least indications or suggestions of them. So that was a pretty exciting thing,
you know. So we we said, well, god, do we even try to cast these because they're pretty sloppy and they're in pretty loose forest stuff like the ones that we found up on top, the ones down in the swamp and the mud and stuff like they were you know, a thick layer of leaves, you know, old alder leaves rotting from underneath the snow from all season. You know. So none of those were really fit to be cast. You know, you could you could see where things walked. And
oh, we also measured the step. They're about thirty nine forty forty two inches between like the left heel and the right heel, so pretty long, pretty long for a person, I would say, And again, maybe maybe it was a person. None of them were so distinct that we could be absolutely sure of that, but I strongly leaned towards that. We found another trackway. Is there a handprint? Yeah, yeah, I haven't even got
to that. But then we decided to cast a couple of these, just because you know, we're there and the so were they the footprints in the ground, and we chose the two most promising ones to cast um, and so we poured plaster in those, and while they were drawing, we figured, okay, well this thing had to come from somewhere, so let's go
look on the other side of the roads. We get back up on the road and you know, it's a logging road out where we were, and we start scanning and walking up and down and um, ahead of our ahead of the rig there a little bit was as culvert and I noticed a couple of peculiar impressions in the covert, and as I looked closer, um, the one on the left had what appeared to be holes going down, and I was looking at it, trying to make sense of it, and then
it hit me, I think it was a handprint, and then the other one to the right was about I forget thirty four thirty eight inches I think, to the right of it, and there was another print that had these indications of holes in it, and I said, well, these might be handprints. And you know what's interesting is in between these two possible handprints, the ground has kind of been rubbed away to some degree, almost like as
I mean, we're hypothesizing here. This is a stretch, of course, but it kind of looks like maybe hands were like left and right hands were there in this colvert on this hill right a hill about forty five degrees or something like that, and maybe if it was a person or a sasquatch, the chest might have rubbed against the ground in this area. We didn't see any or anything like that, but it had been disturbed. So we did
our best to cast those. And again it was real loose forest stuff, etc. But the fingerprints were there and we cast it and we just cleaned them off today. Keith came into the shop today. We cleaned them off to hosed them down pretty good. And you know, we're not looking at like, you know, Tom Shay's handprints or something like that, like that
like real strong indications of fingers, but the fingers are there. And when we layered when we laid the Tom shayhandprints over at the smaller of the ones, not not Goliath, but the smaller ones from twenty sixteen, when I laid those over the top, the fingers pretty much matched up exactly where they should be left and right. Um so, I think we got some handprints. And it's again, these are that aren't the sort of casts that would
impress anybody. They're not something you would take home and you know, you know, show introduce some mom and dad or anything like that. They're kind of a mess, but I think they're legit. I think I think we got some handprints. Um So, yeah, if you're if you do, indeed come up in the next couple of weeks. But I gotta show you these. I think they're pretty interesting, pretty interesting. I'll be up there next week. Fantastic. Well, I can't wait to show you. It's
gonna be good, it's gonna be interesting. So yeah, So anyway, more more data collection and stuff, which is I guess probably the theme of our show right here, data collections for scientific analysis that we just run into our guests tonight we got the legendary producer from Monster Quest and the original Bigfoot series, also Mysterious Encounters. He also hosts He's got his own podcast, Untold Radio AM. So he's got a good His podcast is great too.
So it's a good friend of ours and one of the top researchers in the world. Doug high Check, Welcome Doug, Welcome back, Doug. Hey, how are you doing, Bobo? And how you doing? Cliff good? Doing all right and doing it right. I've had a good week as you as you heard, so yeah, it's good to be back here. And I got some questions for you. Yeah, I've got some questions for you too, follow up things I've heard another podcasts and but but how is
your podcast going now? And you have a podcast network if I understand things correctly, right, Yeah, we've got ten podcasts total. And um we have the Flakeship Show, Untold Radio AM, Bobo Mention and see there's a number of shows that are just Bigfoot, the Bigfoot influencers, the Sasquatch out Post Wide Open Research does Bigfoot about as much as we do, you know, which is you know, it's quite often we kind of lean we lean
towards Bigfoot only because Bigfoot rocks. It's still the best in the most fueled mystery out there. Yeah, it's certainly the best supported of the cryptids. I think. Well, the thing is, it's just fueled constantly. There's just so much material and so many things that just keep coming up, and there's so many witnesses, and so I always tell people, man, you can scientists especially. I was talking to one um yesterday and I said, yeah, well, you can ignore this subject, but it's not going away.
And of course it's not going away because the animals are real. Yeah exactly, I said, you know, you don't you don't hear us reporting unicorns. No one's reporting unicorns, but they're reporting big boots like every day. You know. It's just it goes on and on and so um. You know, I tend to lean towards doing that. It's where my interest is. Um. In fact, you know, I would probably put me
in you know, and I'm obsessed over the topic. Yeah, preaching at the choir here, you know, the one the choir at the One Tree Church. Yeah exactly, amen. Amen is right, amen. But you know, it's it's been such a good thing in my life. Um, I mean I can't think of anything that's influenced in more positive ways than this topic. Yeah, gets you out there, you'd be cool industry people go coolishing places and you learn cool unishing things. Well, look what it's done
for you know, your your life, Bobo and your life. Oh yeah, I met my wife, I met my dog, I met my bobo. You have a museum, the museum, right, there's that too. I forgot about that, you know. I put my wife, my dog, and my Bobo above that. But yeah, well that's good. But it's still and it's not it's not over yet. Now they're not dead yet. In other words, right, no, no, it's going to continue
to you know, influence your life. And I've always you know, always tell people people that are interested in Bigfoot, I think are some of the most intelligent people on the planet. Despite what skeptics might think, it's the absolute opposite. These are curious people. These are people that are open minded, wanting to learn. You know, they're reading everything they can read, going to lectures, conferences, taking their time to learn, learn and learn
and learn about things they're interested in. Doesn't get I mean, life doesn't get any better when you can just sit there and you know, and try to tap into other topics that tie in. You know, I wouldn't know anything about DNA if it wasn't for Bigfoot, for instance, why would I be interested in it. Everyone thinks that about DNA because they watch cop show
than that because they have this perception of DNA from that. Then you're trying to tell them like, that's because they have a known type special they can match, and I tell it's totally totally different from Bigfoot. Exactly, yeah, exactly. We had this virologist I think the term is in the museum today, and I was talking to him as some PhD guy or whatever. Really nice guy, real smart, real nice. He's anybody's speaking way above
my head. Unfortunately, you know, way about my pay grade. M But he was talking about the various things that could be done besides DNA, say if we get a blood sample or something like that, and testing the viruses and antibodies the thing has, and how that might be comparable to other species in the environment and whatnot, and and and so I had a nice conversation with him, not only about that, but also the fact that to go to kind of go along with what you were just saying, Doug is
that kind of no matter what you're interested in, you can apply it somehow to bigfoot Like it is really truly a multidisciplinary topic. You know, a geologist can apply what they know to bigfoots of you know this are this virologists, you know, trackers, outdoors people, the collegists, oh, pure citology. Uh yeah, yeah, you know herpetology. You know, the whole bio um, the sphere of the entire forest um really affects what we do. And I mean you were just tracking um camera technology. I mean
the list is just endless, literally endless. No, That's why I always tell people you big footers are the smartest people there are. I haven't seen that for years. Yeah, and and yet I love how we get made fun of by sometimes the mains to impress, you know, they'll just kind of you know, like they're a bunch of dummies wasting their time, but your cks and it's the absolute opposite. Yeah, But then you read the articles say, right, you go like who's the dummy now? Like whoever
wrote this garbage is? Who the moron is? No? And it's just, um, I think about all the things I I've learned because of this topic and it's endless. You know, my interest in whileife research just it doesn't change. It just slides right into bigfoot And even though in the big fold world, I've still failed at everything I've tried. That's big footing. But I also feel I've come close and many you know, because it was how was those clues that you were that close to that perfect storm where you
almost got what you wanted? You know, that thumb that you saw in that trail camera was so close. But you know, these are very smart creatures we're dealing with. Well, great people aren't great because they succeed. They're great because they keep pushing through their failures. You know that at the end of the day. Yeah, no, that's um, that's that's exactly true. And um, I haven't given up. Never gonna give up until
I'm not breathing. People give who give up, they end up being either scoffticks, as we see far too often, you know, on social media and stuff, and or go straight paranormal. I think I've noticed a lot of people who've been doing this a long time they say, well I would have solved this by now. They must be paranormal in some sort of way, which I think is a cop out, a total cop out. Yeah, well, you know, I mean one of the one of the biggest
arguments that the paranormal is use. And you know, I'm not going to say the wrong because I don't know they could be right. But they say, well, you know, the trackway ended, and I'm like, why do you know it didn't get on its hands and knees or roll away you know, you don't know, or leap to a tree, or leap really
far into a new area, land on a rock. I was so, I was just thinking about this exact same thing because I heard somebody mentioned that in the museum when I was in the back working on some of the project here, and it occurred to me, I have never seen any evidence of
that, like I've I've heard of that. People tell me that's true, But but I'm at the point in my cynical career here that I'm not really believing much of what people tell me anymore unless there's something to support it, because people are such poor observers and they have a kind of lousy language skills and all that sort of stuff, you know, the things I'm always on my soapbox ranting about here on the Big Foot of Beyond podcast. But I've
never seen any evidence of good footprints just completely disappearing in the ground. I haven't either. It might be one of these sort of mythological things. Because we start talking about people hear about it, so it must be true. Everybody talks about it. But I've never once seen those clear snowprints disappear. I've never once seen good footprints in mud just completely disappear in the middle of a field. I mean, maybe this might be just untrue. I don't
know. Yeah, well, I have a feeling if I was brought to one of those sites where the footprints disappear, I would be able to figure it out. You know. Bob Strain told me he saw one and upon close inspection, the thing turned around and walked out in his own footprints. Sure, that's that's always another possibility that they can just do that. But you know, I also believe these things go down in all fours it.
At times I believe that they couldn't. You know, if you're dealing with a human like intelligence, there's nothing stopping over from laydown and rolling away to throw you off their drill. Deer do that, you know, deer belly crawl, so you don't even need a human like intelligence. You know, doing your research before you buy me is making better informed choices, especially when it comes to stress or sleep products like CBD. I mean, I dig
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this is the information. I'm really planning on diving very deep into covering all of these topics and legamide signs number two. Yeah, yeah, well that and of course that's why we invited you back on. You have a Kickstarter at this point, I believe trying to get some funding going to get this actually start in production. Is that right? Yeah. Obviously we've had a
lot of delays. COVID was one of the big ones. Then I've been kind of tickled by some network activity and production company activity, and in the end I'm still left on my own. And so now it's like Steward die, we got to get this figured out, you know, even if if I have to finance it myself in my partner, I guess we'll do that. But the forensics are going to suffer because you know, we maybe we
only get to test a few things. And so this this is not an entertainment film I want to do. There's so much science that you know, it's it's really people are funding forensic tests directly. They're not just funding you know, entertainment. Yes, it will be entertaining, it will be a great film to share with people. I think it'll be the best film ever done on the topic because it's going to be very deep. But in the end, you're financing forensic tests, you know, And that's what I'd love
to get across today to people. Now, can you tease us with any of the kinds of tests that will be done with this kind of funding? Oh, I could do more than that. I could bore you to death. Please do. That's why we're here. We bore our our listeners to death every week. That's what we do. That's why they keep coming back
from more. Okay, so let's just take Let's just take sounds, you know, the unknown sounds, and they are unknown, but there's eight thousand, five hundred of them documented and recorded, right but many of them, the ones that have been proved authentic, there's a math. There's a math issue in the sound, in the form and structure, and this math is consistent and most people don't know that. Well, that's just one category.
We're going to get to the people. We're going to do it on a level and where everybody's going to leave as an expert on the difference between So you'll be able to debunk if you just download the free software and you can debunk things on your own. For instance, me in Blaine debunked some sounds that he thought were authentic. I didn't, and we went and did it,
and sure enough, the math showed they were fake. Because the real unknown sounds have something very uncommon and it's all can be figured out with math, you know, missing numbers as an example. I don't want to get into too many details in each one of these things. Is this math that going to be accessible to everybody or is it something that like you're gonna need to hire a degree in mathematics. No, no, no, sixth grade
level, Cliff, totally sixth grade level. And we'll use the animation and everything so we can get people's light bulbs to go off, including scientists that will be able to challenge them to go. Oh, they'll go, this is simple. I'm gonna go check this out myself, right, and they'll be blown away because you can you can hire um any kind of voice impressionists that you want. He will not be able to duplicate anything with his voice that has the same math. No matter what he does, he won't be
able to do it. He won't all to hire anybody to do it. Now, when you say math, are you talking about like wavelengths or is there something more too? I'm talking about simple numbers, simple numbers, And once again I do I don't want to get into every detail of each category. But we're going to be going deep into communication, into what we think we know to in for communication, possible language. But what we're really going to dive into. Is one thing that people talk about constantly, I mean
everybody does, is the infrasound. You know, that's kind of become legendary. You know, I felt fear suddenly I had to leave the area. People call it getting zapped on and on. We're gonna go really deep. And here's why. Because we have a human and we have primates that can create infrasounds. So we're going to be not only testing because we have this human that can get down below infrasound, way below infrasound. We're gonna be
testing how far it can travel. We're gonna be testing actually putting camera systems up through his sinus cavity and into his vocal area so we can film how he's making the infrasound. We're going to be testing the effects on people. Um. We're going to be you know, going into the mimicking. You know, the mimicking people talk about, um, and just on and on and on. You know. So there's just some sounds. You know,
we have like nine chapters. The sounds is one entire chapter. Well it's one chapter, but it'll have subtitles and evidence and so yeah, yeah, sure, sure, but you have nine different topics to cover, and sounds is just one of sounds. Yeah, and just sounds. So we have eighteen there'll be eighteen main chapters in Legimide Science Wow. And you know, we don't even know how long the film will be. I'm estimating two and a half to three hours, but if it goes to four, I'll be
fine with that because I added pretty tight. I know it won't be boring if I get it to four. You know, if it's four hours and I chop it down, I still know it's gonna move, you know, because it's my added style. It's not gonna be boring. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna let sound bites run on and on and on and borried to death. Here's the human that did the infrasoundware. Oh, it's gonna be
Tim Storms. Jim Storms has the documented lowest voice in the world. He's the only human that I know of that I've certainly i've access to that can get his voice down to three hurts, well below infertsound, which is at twenty hurts. Is he like a famous singer or something like? Yes, Yeah, he's actually performed even in Branson, Missouri. He's had light fixtures come out of the ceiling when he's performing because of the inversound. He's had
a lot of weird things happen. And I did an untold radio We did interview Tim if anybody wants to find that and they can actually hear him sing and get down into the invertsound range, even though of course the mics won't pick that up. Yeah, you can't hear it, but you can hear see infort sounds really interesting because part of it can be above twenty hurts and you can hear that, so it can have a range. Yeah, So that's what's interesting about infortsound. So the viewer will be able to hear the
above twenty hurts part. They'll be able to see though with equipment we'll have on the invisible part of his infratsound, like you know, we'll literally we'll just keep will be moving out, you know, at a quarter mile, a mile and on and on and on until we can't pick up his infortsound anymore. Is he physically a big guy, Yeah, he's a big guy. Yep. You know, it's the most interesting part of the whole thing. I said to the guy go to Tim, why are you willing to
have an e n T run a camera up? You're in your up, your nostril, in your through your sinus cavities. It's very uncomfortable. I let him do it to me. It's extremely uncomfortable. I mean it's pretty painful actually, and then down into your windpipe and he goes because I had a big foot sighting. Oh and I'm like, oh my god, are you he? Niver told me that before. Is he going to get into
that jure? Of course, yeah, of course. But he's highly mighty and not only had a big food side, he had a really good one from a train trestle where him and his friend were watching it catch fish down will directly below them, so they had a bird's eye view of the sightings where it was it Oklahoma, Oklahoma. Well, how they observe it? Like a long time? Um, fifteen to twenty minutes. When I remember his story, that's a long time. Yeah, especially when it's out in
the open it's unobstructed. You know. I love train sidings. We got a group of engineers that comes in the museum every once in a while. He does the road. They run the tracks over by the eighty four, and um, they're a handful of them. Did I run across the handle because they get a beer at the pizza place across the way, or they come in and say hid at the museum. And I think of the three
or four, like two of them have seen sasquatches from the train. And it's always in the Eagle Creek area over there, you know, which is where the fires started on the eighty four, where the Columbia River gorge. But generally within two or three miles they've seen a sasquatch between all of them, like two or three times. And it's one zone there. So you guys are listening, there's a shout out for you train conductors, you know who you are. Yeah, And animals take the path of leaves to resistance.
Why wouldn't they use a railway because they're usually forested, you know, there's forest on both sides because they bought up so much land. But it's such a great, you know, a great low calorie walk. They can get a long ways and don't have to walk through the brush. Well, and also it's strategic and moneymaker pointed this out to me that those long straightaways they can just sit on the side, and I hunker down and hides urn and watch and if they see a herd of deer crossing half a mile away,
they can start following it. It's an edge, yep, absolute edge. And also those are one of the few places, just like roadsides and meadows, one of the few places in the forest that the sunlight reaches the forest floor, which causes highly nutrition plants to come up, you know, much more nutritious and under the forest canopy. So yeah, that's absolutely true.
Plants that get the right amount of sun are going to be hind protein content, which brings us to you know, one of our categories, and that is you know, for years, I've suspected black bears can see an UV vision because they'll be feeding and whether they're feeding on catkins or grass or whatever. Why do they always turn their nose up at this plant but they devour this one next to it. Well, it's because they can see the
protein content they don't want to through their probably UV vision. Well, it's pretty well been proven how black bears can see an UV, which is really just a filter that's removed. You know, we could see an e Actually they can do it. I think they've done a number of humans where they can remove this filter and then human can see an UV. They can make
any camera see in UV by just removing a certain filter. Um. So it's not really some great thing they have, it's something they don't have, you know, Caribou they've proven, They've now proven numerous other mammals can see an UV vision. I suspect that blakefoots can because they would allow them to see yurine, you know, urine of like mice for instance, or tones, all sorts of small game. It would allow them an even big game.
But um, you'll be happy to know I've started a podcast with Barnaby Jones called Monsters on the Edge, which is literally about what Matt had mentioned about. You know, these these edges. I really think they utilize them. Oh sure, you know that that topic of the UV light being seen kind of dovetails nicely into that hair peculiarity that you shared with us last time. Um. And and animals that are known now to actually glow under UV light. It's like platypus and some other new things. Oh yeah, but
they found all that flying squirrels in North America glow. Yeah, which I was really that really dovetailed perfect into a theory I had, which is just one of these diarrhea theories, you know, it's kind of inferred. But one night I probably told this story before, But one night I was out filming with a new technology called an IR camera, right for I was going to use it for a show I did in the nineties called The Man that Walks with Bears. Discovery had never seen IR ever, and so they flew
an executive out to see this. I our camera and what it could do and you know, the footage to allow me to put it in this Animal Planet documentary. Well, I was out testing it to get footage for them to look at, and I was just I was out there with my buddy and I'm just talking to them real nice and soft, and all of a sudden, I had a flying squirrel land on me, and then another one
and another one, and it just kept landing. I was covered with them and they were scurrying all over my body, and I'm like, this is weird. What is the reason for this. You must have nerves of steel. By the way, No, a couple of rodents land on me, I'm gonna be shrieking. Oh yeah, what is pitch black. Yeah, that's true. I was pitch black and I mean pitchers. Oh yeah,
that's right, that's right. I was a school teacher though, so I'm covered with these damned things and I'm thinking, oh, this is really interesting. It just bothered me for years and years and years. I would start talking and they wouldn't leave. So as I started to be quiet, and they would leave. So as I started talking mumbling didn't matter. They would just start landing on me again. But when I was quiet, they would leave out of fear. Um. I just thought it was weird. Bothered
me forever. And then I started, you know, working on this UV vision finding out, oh, flying squirrels seeing a UV. Then it when it really connected some dots maybe, and that is why I find out their favorite food is wood ticks. The flying squirrels. Yes, now, how would a bigfoot rid himself with wood ticks? You know how bad they are in the spring in Minnesota As an example, I mean, you're you get
hundreds of them on you within minutes. What it create symbiotic relationship And we're going to explore explore, you know, I use the word loosely, explore these symbiotic relationships with you know, possible bigfoots and ravens, coyotes and wolves, and you know what would they do. Um. I'm really into the symbiotics stuff because there's a lot more of that goes on, you know,
in the forest than we never think about. But I just thought, Oh, I wonder if flying squirrels the land on bigfoots crawl all over them and just look for woodticks. What a great thing, right, it's harmless to the bigfoot. The flying quarrel leaves with a full belly and they clean all the things. I mean, I just can't picture them. A big male that's maybe solitary. What how was he going to get all these woodticks off them? They're going to bury in the fur walliflying squirrel does a probably would
do a really fine job getting all those woodticks off. Yeah, kind of like the cleaner shrimp, you know, yeah, the cleaner shrimp exactly. And so I want to get information that also is very gray that does fit in dovetail two people because it gives them things to um think about trying it. Maybe one of these things that leads to a discovery, you know. So we'll have some gray a few gray area of things that we're going to
explore because they're very interesting. At the very least, they're going to very They're going to um get kids interested in the topic, and they may end up being true someday. We may not find out for fifty more years. But you know, um, when something makes so much sense to me, and I've experienced it myself, I can't ignore that because these things were probably looking for woodticks on me. That's why they were there. They were being
other There would be no other reason. Cliff, Yeah, that's an odd one. I can't imagine what else they would be doing. Landing because it really putting themselves in danger to some degree. Landing on some larger animal. That's not a wise thing to do. Yeah, exactly. Maybe they land on coyotes, Maybe they land on wolves in the dark. We don't know, but there's not been one biologist I haven't talked to them, didn't go,
wow, you might be right on this, you know. And it's it's when things really feel really good to me, I'm very willing to then try them publicly or put that information all like I did with the giant squid. Well that's how we got the footage that was just a dovetail bunch of you know, theories that just made so much sense to me because I experienced other animals getting out of their niche and suspecting, you know, there was
giant squid down deep that never traveled up the water column. Well, why don't I send down some smaller ones that dukes travel up and down the water column to see if its would be attacked? You know that they would stay as cannibals and they would just not breed and just get huge. Were the ones that travel up and down the water callum die at a very young age. You know. They breathe and they're very social, you know, and sometimes when I get these things, I have to go with them. But
that'll be one of the symbiotic things. And I'm sure you guys are both suspected that ravens have some type of relationship or burdens because even if even if they don't agree to this relationship, if Bigfoot see a bunch of vultured circling, or of ravens being noisy, automatically they're going to go check it out, right because there's maybe carrying or injured deer there. So these things happen naturally, you know, I'm not seeing the bigfoots having and do with the
flying squirrels, but I just think that there's something to it. And the fact they glow was kind of that kind of pushed me over the edge, you know, and I went, oh, this is really interesting, you know, yeah, super weird, super interesting, like why would anything glow? And you know, nature doesn't do much on accident, you know, there's usually I'm almost always a reason for it that has to do with their behavior or physiology or something. Yep. And then we're you know, we're
gonna have field efforts. Besides all these forensic tests we'll talk about, there's a lot of field efforts that have never been tried. Just one is a Sony A seven a camera is you know, it's got the is ISO of five hundred forty thousand, and you can see in total darkness in color and
you can put a real nice zoom lens. A couple that with a four hundred millimeters zoonland you've now got a weapon weapon because it's you know, thermal cameras great and it does get evidence, but is it evidence that a scientist is going to get nuts on? Maybe not, you know, but you present close up footage like surveillance footage from you know, eighth of a mile away that's now a color of a big foot walk in the beach and you
can zoom in on it. That might do something So that we're gonna have a you know, a section on mirrorless cameras and seen it in the dark, microcams, robot cams. We're gonna put a coyote. We're gonna put a camera on a coyote that I'll have a drop off caller made out of cardboard. I told Stacy Brown about this and he put one on a hog. And it's a great thing that can be done by research scientists. If
nothing else, we might learn something about coyotes. Maybe we'll see full squirrels land on them eating what dicks you know, We don't know, but we'll learn something. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages now. I think one of the standout items I guess in the legendet Science one was the footage you had the Patterson Gimblin footage. Of course you had the Freeman footage, had the Memorial Day
stuff in there. Do you have access to any footage you're gonna be featuring in the second one. Yes, we are going to put footage in the second one, and it's only going to be stuff that I There's there's one piece of footage that's very, very amazing. I really can't talk about it because of legal reason yet, but I'm taking a very well known piece of footage and I will be debunking it because I've already debunked it, already got ahold of the factual film, blew it up. Change the contrast on it.
Is this the pant leg one with the shoe? No? Yeah, they you know. One of the things that Moneymakers said that's always struck stuck with me, and it seems like I'm a very pro Moneymaker episode here because something else that Matt said that resonates true. He's a mad genius, but he's a genius. One of the things he said that resonated very well with me is that in order to be an expert in real big foot footage, you have to be an expert in fake big foot footage. And of course
that applies to footprint tracks and everything else. So I've really taken that to heart and started studying fake well for me, it was fake footprints. But I started way too late. I should have started long before I did, and I had my reasons or whatever. But that's a different story. But so I think it does dovetail if you if you debunk footage, it teaches you what to look for for real footage. Yeah. Absolutely, And there's
still so much you can learn from real footage. You're gonna learn anything from big footage, except you're gonna debunk it very quickly. The deeper you go into it, the more you're going to realize absolutely it's fake, just like the story I just told you off you know, off Mike. But it's also going to be able to allow us to apply some new technology to the Patterson footage. There's some really cool categories we're going to get into that have
not really been done on the Patterson. The Patterson footage is still far more to tell us. It really does. There's a lot more that can be studied. Yeah, it's a little bit more complex. Like the walk, it's not what you see on the surface. It's more like a Peruvian horse as an example, And we're going to prove that the Patterson footage walks like a gaited horse. Yeah, the first documentary, we had very little bit of it, but we didn't get deep into it because I did that for
a Discovery channel. Yet I only had fifty minutes. Yea, So now I don't have those confines. Although I'm not going to make it boring, but it allows me to put go much deeper onto a topic. You know, if they don't like it, they can speed it up. Right, while streaming services have a fast forward button. If you're not interested in that, go ahead and get the fast forward button. But we're going to go deep into that. I really feel I can prove. And how it's walking
like a Peruvian horse, Well, how do a Peruvian horses walk? I don't. I don't know anything about that. Well, if you go online and you look at a Peruvian horse, their legs flop outwards and inwards and they have a kind of a swimming action. Well, this allows them to one walk very smooth. And remember I said these are naturally gaited horses. These horses are born with this gate. It allows them to climb mountains, right what a big foots do the climb hills. It allows them to be
very smooth. And what is one thing that is reported very often, you know, and consistent through through all the years. They seem to have a very smooth gait. The head does not bob much, you know, And that's one thing that we're going to go deep why what is the reason is? Why why are they adapted this way? And we're going to do it so then finally they can really see it in a smooth way. Yes, we did do some animation, but it was very crude animation, be just
due to you know, the technology back down. I mean that was twenty three years ago, right, yeah, it's another as another world back then. So now we're going to be able to do a much better job, and we're going to be able to line it up better, and we're going to really hopefully get everybody's light ball to go off. This is not a guy in a suit not to mention the i AM index. And there's just so many things. The other thing that's interesting, um, why was the
Patterson footage out in the open? Why was it cotton? The opow I didn't just bolt into the forest, you know, or these trees eiden it. Why did the Patterson footage or the Freeman footage, why was that one captured out in the open? Why was the more oil day out in the open? Why didn't it just stick to the forest it was trying to hide? Well, there could be this is the film will explore those, you know, and of course you know we I tend to think it's because of
an infant. You know, they're literally trying to possibly direct one away. And we'll offer some evidence to that. These are the gray areas the legimide science. And there'll be many things that will be black and white, solid conclusions, many many solid conclusions. But I do want to explore some of the gray areas, that the inferred areas that we can offer evidence, but it won't be definitive, you know, just be things to get people to
think. Things that are interesting, um, things that may end of turning out to be true in the future, but things that are inferred enough through footage and evidence that may be true that maybe the only time they're seen now completely in the open, because obviously they're making that choice. You know, they have a brain. Maybe they're doing the pull and the kill deer, you know, the misdirect right, And I don't know how you guys feel
about that. Usually people have some strong opinions. Yeah, there's no babies shown in the Patterson footage. But the fact and led those guys away in an open area versus just hidden into the forest has bugged me forever. I don't know if predators do that, they're like, oh, dear, even do it? Yeah, I know, I know they do it. But I guess jackals will do that. But it seems like a big foot that
they're so now I think I think they're more like bears. They would just stand they if they couldn't get away at the offspring quickly or safely, I think they'd stand the ground. I mean, that's just my impression. Who knows, but um, you know, we don't know. That's that's what's interesting. There's plenty of evidence that says the otherwise. Well, I mean, I mean, if there's a young these are just a few females, and maybe it happens to be where is the young one? I've been actually
left with bear cubs. Buy a wild bear, the baby sit their cubs, right. But if that bear would have been approached by um, let's say a couple of hundreds that busting that bear out of the woods, would that bear of led those hunters away from its cubs, or would it have ran to the cubs. We don't know that. You know, there's a lot we don't even know about black bears. I know in that case, when when the cubs started whining a little bit, that bear came back at
me and just likes everything. Okay here, you know, I thought I was going to get killed. But you know, we don't really know. Animals behave a lot of different ways. Then we're going to at least throw some of these inferred theories out there. People can do with them what they want, But the foundation of legimide science really will be things like you know, um, you know, forensic DNA from skin samples, m skin cells.
I mean, the breakdown of what's in the skin sebum, which we really don't even know whether it came from a big foot because we didn't see the big foot leave the skin sebum. You know, I still have those samples in my freezer. Now you know we're going to get those. Yeah, But we do have the face print. We can forensically reanimate the face print bringing into a three D. We have other evidence in that skin print which has been preserved that can be examined. We have DNA that can be
probably gotten out of the sebum. You know, it'll be sloughed off skin cells that we can get nuclear DNA out of. And then another and very important factor is the chemical compounds that are in that skin oil. Because chimps, orangutangs, bnobos, gorillas all have a different chemical compound, different amounts of trigulucerides, so have cholesterols, some don't, but they all have their own examples, like DNA fingerprint on what's in their skin oil for instance.
You know, humans are very different than gorillas, chimps too, our orangutans, yet we're all kind of in that same family of you know, we're all primates. So I'm hoping that we can actually present the actual fingerprint of a big foot skin oil because I've gotten many samples and we can compare them. The other primates have already been done, so it may not match.
If we can do three different samples and they don't match any of the other primates, We're really going to have a bell ringing ceremony because it's not going to prove anything, but it's going to allow once again people that now try to collect this in the future, and it's definitely going to raise the boat. How hard is it for them to, like Kennethy, break that down analyze That shouldn't be that difficult, right, It shouldn't be because they've done
it with the other primates. Right, So they've already analyzed humans oraon tangs chimps. That's already done. So most of the work's already been done. If that hadn't been done, I really have my hands wull. But all we have to do is just do the one you know, the one type of samples, and all we have to do is compare it to the data that's already done. So no, no, the answer is no, it won't be hard. Will it be costly, Yeah, it's gonna cost.
It's gonna cost more than we've already raised just for that one test probably. Well, like most of these tests range about five thousand dollars per sample, so they're not cheap. Do you have really three good solid samples? Oh god, yes, Oh yeah, I've got enough to easily spend twenty grand on just just skin oil. Also, I haven't really interested in seeing that,
yeah, and I think most people are. But it's going to take money, you know, And that's why we're trying to raise the eighty thousand dollars, which will you know, it'll allow us to do things like breakdowns of GIS data. You know, based on got almost ten thousand sightings that we've got, these things being analyzed in England. We've got like Scott Thompson of the Bigfoot Mapping project. These are all things that we're going to be
able to do things within the stock. We've got things like inferred things we're going to explore, like superabilities. You know, like Cliff, you always talk about their great strength. That's just super that's a superability. Absolutely that needs to be looked at. Their size is a superability. Maybe their social makeup is a superability because it maybe I don'tlike anything we've we've come across leaping, um going. You know, maybe they can go quick from you know,
being a quadruped to a biped really quick. Rock throwing is a superability. I don't know if any other hunters that can do that. You know, wolves don't throw rocks, Bears don't. But we once again have enough inferred evidence that we know it's a you know, if I was a betting guy, I would probably bet they throw rocks. Right. I may be wrong, but I'm probably going to hedge, My bets Well, Derek Randall seen them do it. I've talked to other people have seen him do it.
Yeah, right, there have been some people that have seen it. Um. There may even be a couple of pieces of footage, you know that. I'm on the fence on where they throw rocks. Um, their speed, their gait, um can all be superabilities. Their their vision maybe a superability possible, belie. Even the stuff they eat could be a superability. Their diet might be more varied than any other omnivore. You know,
we just we don't know these things. I think they're hearing as a very fertile field to plow there, because what I know about the other great apes is that they largely depend on hearing. They keep track of one another as the troop moves through the jungle because they can't see each other. I think I think a large portion of what they do is based on their hearing.
I think that's how they observe you in camp. Because you know, I've been out with big footers like they're watching us right now, and it's like, I don't think so the un if they're in neighborhood, I don't think they're necessarily looking at us. I think that they keep track of us by listening to what we're doing, you know, and interpreting that. And I
think that's how they think. Because one of the other commonalities of places that I'm confident had sasquatches, either because they're footprints there or sounds or whatever somebody saw one as. One of these commonalities that I find again and again is that the places are are very very quiet, you know, like extraordinarily quiet. Um. And then I think that that they're drawn to places like that because it gives them an advantage, which is, you know, um,
an area that we're gonna go very deep in that whole sound. You know, they're the wood knocking. I mean, my sound son recorded some amazing interactions of what had to be more than one big food communicating with you know, lightwood knocks, um or mouthpops whatever they're doing. But we'll also be exploring that what does the makeup of their mouth? Well, how can we explain this? You know, we'll be showing animation, um, how can
they make this sound? I'll be seeking out people who can do it, can make a wood knock sound a perfect wood knock, not that I already haven't found them, but we're gonna we're gonna show this stuff. We're gonna really try to wake people up on many topics. I saw some documentary of dealing with some jungle people. If can't remembers Asia, South America, but they were doing the loudest Yeah, it was just pop. Like I was
like, damn that was that was loud. Well, yeah, if you have nothing else to do but practice that, and you have a resonator box,
you know, which is basically what their head and mouth is. The size of theirs, imagine the sounds you can make with that little or of course, my fan favorite sort of a theory is them clapping, since there's that's well documented in the other ape species that like you've seen how big their hands are based on the handcass and most of it is palm because of the webbing, and their fingers goes up further than ours, so it makes their
fingers look stubbier than ours. It was probably similar length, you know, but that the webbing of the cellf you know, no, no, don't picture like frog webbing. That's not what I mean. But like the skin goes up further in between their fingers, giving their fingers a shorter appearance,
which means that it extends their palm. Well, god, I used to hang out with these Brazilian dudes, Brazilian people actually, the men and women, because my ex wife Monica was in the Capuetta, this Brazilian martial art, and so the Brazilian cultural in general, from my take, seems to
be very musically oriented. You know, if there's a there's a song on the radio, they're singing or dancing or clapping along with it or buying large you know, there's a very musically expressive people from my experience, and also Kapuistas it's a very musical art as well. So that's probably you know, my data is probably slanted that way. But these people, these people like
show me how they clap, like the Brazilians. They can clap so so loud, and they have human hands because they're humans, right, But a sasquatch who had some time in practice um clapping with a palm that's seven to twelve inches across with their strength would just be an astonishingly loud sound. And it's documented and that there was that study in Rwanda with those gorillas that were clapping and whatnot. I think that's a slam dunk that at least some of
the time they're clapping. Well, where this doc will go? Is um a sound bite from you clap because you're gonna be in the film, Babbo, you're gonna be in the film. Yes, and you know, take from that sound bite. Suddenly, now we're filming them in South America and showing this exact thing. Yeah, and all of them are topics worthy of exploration because even if they don't turn up, even if they don't turn up to be something, they're probably going to lead somewhere else that is of interest.
Very few intelligent questions that are asked are dead ends. They always lead somewhere else, or at least they tell you, Okay, this was actually a brick wall here, and but you know, there's this other place you can go based on this. And I think that's so interesting that when you start asking intelligent questions, the path opens up in front of you where you should be looking. Yeah, no, no, exactly. You know.
One of the things that caught my eye about your Kickstarter project is that you are going to be pairing it up with the sequel to Doctor Meldrum's book Sasquatch Legimide Science. So Jeff's committed to be on board with this and get a second book published. Yes, so be Legimide Science. It's two book, which will also incorporate um Um Immersive Book Technology IBT. So it's gonna have videos and soundclips, animations in the book. So this book's going to blow
away the last book that blew away everything before it. Yeah, because we had Michael Freeman on he published his book and he was he went through all that like how cool that is? All the things you've come up with. Yeah, I mean, like THEO, the Michael Freeman book about his father, it's full of like you know, it's Paul's whole diaries, audio diaries
in there in different chapters, and you know there's video in there. There's the footage his dad captured, enhanced footage what we think is the baby lift in the in the book. But Legimide Science two book will have all of the science that was in one, but it's going to go to a new level and it's going to explore new theories. And Jeff's very ex it about it. And what I love about Jeff is his enthusiasm for this is immense plus he said, Doug, this is perfect timing for me right now.
I know he's been working on a second book for years, literally years, you know, because he's a very busy guy, and you know, you just can't devote an entire year to writing a book like with his schedule like it is. So it's so nice that everything is just coming together, you know, like a plan on the A team. You know, it's it's just when a plan comes together. So everything seems to be lining up as
a perfect storm here for a release. Well, it's really cool. Is I get to I didn't publish his last book, but my neighbor worked with him on getting the book published and found a you know, a big book publisher. But I get to publish the book because I don't Hanger one publishing. So it's gonna be I'm gonna put so much work into this book too, as I have a personal stake into it because it's based on the dock. Um it's going to parallel on the dock or deeper, even deeper than
the dock in and so it's going to be an amazing partnership. But I'm really really super excited about it. So the kickstarter is live, right now. I mean, you can donate right now, and in fact, I am going to donate as soon as I'm done with this phone call here And it looks like there's a bunch of different levels from a ten dollar donation just and it says right here, back it because you believe in it. And
I think that says everything. I think anybody who's going to back this and even give ten dollars is because you believe in this project and it didn't feed. I don't know. I mean, you're my friend, Doug. I don't want to suck up to you too much. But like if if you don't, if you don't know what Doug's capable of, go back and look
at Legend Meat Science one and realize what year was that done? Two thousand and six or something, or when was that we started in two thousand, two thousands, So yeah, go look, go look with what Sasquatch Legend Meat Science one was about and realize that's twenty years ago. And think about the advancements in technology and breakthroughs in science in other ways, send Sin and realize he's gonna be building upon that science. Sasquatch Science one is still probably
the number one selling DVD in my store. Um, and certainly Jeff's book is the number one selling book in my store as well in the North American big Foot Center here, and nobody has a complaint about it, even though they're both fairly dated at this point, being twenty years old. In some cases the best they're still the best. They're still the best which you offered then, Yeah, and no one's really done it better since then, and
no one, certainly no one has. You know, the extra features you had and um, and the thought processes that you use to get to the bottom of some of these things, like the Memorial Day stuff. People are still talking to me about that. Like last week somebody came in. They were describing something they saw once they were so impressed with, and I was listening, like trying to figure out what it was, and shure up it was legend beat science one Memorial Day analysis. It was fantastic and they blew
them away. So yeah, so ten dollars level back at j because you believe in it, support the project for no reward, just because it speaks to you. I think all of our listeners can do something like that. But there's higher levels as well, And of course you get, you know, like kickstarters, are you give a little bit more, you get a little bit more. Um. Do you want to go over some of those
rewards, um, Doug? Or do you want me to tell you I'm looking at the page now you can, you can kind of briefly go through them. But they But the thing is, when you go to another level, you get all the all of the products from the first level in the second level, and you just keep getting more and more and more. Yeah, just glancing down here, it looks like there's there's possibilities to get your name in the credits. At some various levels. You get copies of the
Legimie Science one in case you don't have it already. Otherwise, it's hard for me to imagine that very many of our listeners don't have this documentary already, by the way, because it is so popular, it made such a splash in the big Foot community. And of course you're gonna be giving digital copies of Legimie Science two parts one and two. Although you told us today that it might be up to four hours in length. Maybe there might be
a part three in there, yep, And and they'll get that. Yes, it looks like At higher levels ninety bucks, you're gonna be getting copies of various books from Doug's publishing company and your one productions, Sasquatch Central, Bigfoot, Alien Stuff, Bigfoot Influencers by Tim Halleran who's been on this program right here Adam's County Bigfoot Friend or Beast. I don't know if somewhere in between, maybe there's one hundred sixty dollar level you get even more stuff,
more books. It looks like you just keep piling on the books and piling on the information for our well read readers on it and here this is fantastic. Yeah, And so the Kickstarter just opened up I think this past week if I remember right. And of course I don't know when this is gonna air. We're recording it, you know, at the end of April here. We don't know when this is going to air. Hopefully soon though, because we want to get some money in Doug's pockets to get this testing done.
And again, the money is probably not going to be going into my pocket, even though I'm going to be in the documentary, Like, I'm not going to get paid for this. I'm doing it because I believe in the project. I believe in the project, and I believe in Doug. I know that this is the right place to put your money. Basically, I sound like I sound like what these telephoned people on late night TV or something. But I believe in this and I'm not. I don't b s
people, and I don't lie. You know, this is it. I think that this is a solid project that you can invest in and feel good about, and I'm going to do it. When you look at the Kickstarter, like in a couple of days, you will see North American Bigfoot Center is in there as a as a, as A, as a donor. That big consumation you see that, says anonymous. That was me. Yeah,
that's right. That that's from the big people beyond podcasts. For everybody who is like I all fired up now, which I'm assuming is most of our listeners, check out the show notes. The link will be in the show notes that will go directly to the Legend Meet Science two's kickstarter and the Kickstarter. I don't see this right off the top of my I don't see it in front of me, Dougs. So when does this end? Or does it end until the money comes in ends? I believe it's got twenty
six days. Twenty six more days left, and by the time this comes out probably much fewer than that. So yeah, this is the time, and you know I'm doing this because I believe in it. Oh, twenty four days to go is what it says here. What is the last day? By May seventeenth. I found that all or nothing, this project will only be funded if it reaches its goal by Wednesday, May seventeenth, So
the time is running out. And again, I don't want to sound like a Jerry Lewis telethon here, but like, this is it, man, This is a good project, and I strongly encourage people to donate. If the project doesn't get funded, everybody will get their money back or they won't cost him a penny. So all right, So yeah, check out the show notes right now, go give something, give it up. Give a dollar if that's all you have, that's cool. I mean, you're not
gonna turn your nose a bit a dollar, right, Doug. Nope, No, If we had every one of your listeners donate one dollar, we would then be over over budget, over budget exactly. Well, Doug, we're gonna sign off now, but can you stick around for our members episode for another half hour and we can talk about some other things chuck in. All right, Bubba, why don't you take us out of here and we'll
hop over to the member section. All right, folks, big thank you to Doug high Check and don't forget to contribute to the kickstarter that's gonna be awesome. And for you that our Patreon members join us. Right doctor storer to have an extra session with Doug until next week. We'll see the rest of y'all. I'll keep it squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's episode
of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot Beyond That's an end in the Middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond.