Ep. 204 - Chris Spencer's Sasquatch Studies!

Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys a favorites, so Lightshay subscribe and raid it times and me watching always keep it SQUATCHI And now your hosts Cliff Berkman and James Bobo Fay. Hello, Squatch gatiers. This is Cliff from Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and usually Bobo. But Bobo is not here with us today because well it's Bobo and that's how things go with him sometimes. You know, you know, you've probably seen the you know,

the Charlie Brown cartoon, like the Peanuts cartoon. Right, Well, there's this character in there named Pigpen and um, he's like the dirty kid. He walks around and there's a cloud of filth that follows him around. And Bobo's kind of like that in a lot of ways, but instead of filth because he has good hygiene, et cetera, it's chaos, and chaos follows Bobo around like the filth follows pig Pen. So and this is just

one of those days when Bobo could not outrun the chaos. There's computer issues, there's emails were since things were plugged in, everything was going great, and dude, my computer I don't know what it's dead, dude, I don't know what to do, and you know, there's nothing we can do to talk him through that. But anyway, sorry, it's just me today. But I'll try to make it up to you. I'll talk. I'll talk like this sometimes maybe that'll help. I'm not sure if it will or

not, though, So normally this is the time of the podcast. I would ask Bobo, hey, dude, what's up man, what have you been up to? And he would say, oh, I don't know, And then he'd asked me stuff, and I talked about what I was doing big foot wise. So here we go. Did a little follow up report this week on the whole river. Um I got a well, actually, let me back up a little bit further. Last Tuesday you may have caught it in the news, the Portland Trailblazers introduced a new actually an old mascot.

They reintroduced an old mascot, and that mascot is, of course, Sasquatch. Apparently they already have another mascot, something called Blaze. It looks it's a cougar or some sort of wild cat. I'm not sure what that has to do with the Blazers Portland Trail Lazers, but that's their mascot. But Blaze is still there. Blaze has not gone anywhere. So if you're a diehard Portland Trailblazer fan, everything's cool. Don't worry about it. They

just added someone on. They added I think Doug fur I think his name is or something to that, which is also a club here in town where really great bands play on regular basis. Anyway, Yeah, so there's a new Bigfoot mascot in town here and the North American big Foot Center in Miami. Museum there was invited to come participate in the festivities at a Portland Trailblazer

game. Pretty cool stuff. It was a wonderful opportunity for us to get the word out about the museum because all of us at the NABC are kind of surprised to some degree at least because a lot of people come in the door and say, I didn't even know you guys were here. How long have you been here? Now? About three and a half years, No

kidding, I just live right down the street. Well that's on them, And I can understand how people in Bin may not know about us because we're kind of outside of town, you know, but right down the street like I don't know, we have signs on the highway like I need to just not paying attention. But nonetheless, so this is a wonderful opportunity for the NABC to kind of get the word out. So basically, we had this booth right by a door, so tons of people saw us coming in the

door. We handed out thousands of little flyers saying hey, we exist. We had a bunch of and they exist, sasquatches exist too. And of course we had a bunch of casts out and a bunch of people smiling faces, ready to talk Bigfoot with people. It was a great event. It was a great event. It was a lot of fun for me getting to see so many people, and several of our members came out. Several of our podcast members came out and said that they listened every week. So I'm

looking at you. You know who you are. If you were at the Blazer game, I'm talking about you. Thank you very much for coming by and say hi. A couple other good things came out of it, A couple of sighting reports locally. Another possible archive has come my direction. I'm trying to get in contact with these people and speak to them about it. But some historic big footers, I got a line on them, so I'm

trying to track them down right now. I won't talk about who it is quite yet, but if I do get ahold of the collection, I'll be sure to tell you all about it. And while we're out there doing our Portland Trailblazer gig that night, which was great and everything. Oh, before I go onto this next thing, that we got to show a commercial for the NABC on their jumbo tron, I was told that people watching the game at home got to see some flashes of the museum, which was pretty neat.

There's a comedian named Ian Carmel. I believe he is the chef correspondent on the Late Late Show. He was there, did little bigfoot skits and whatever, took some pictures with him. He was a cool dude. Invited under the museum next time he's in town. So yeah, yeah, good times for the NABC. I hope you guys checked it out at home, And if you are a Trailblazer fan, I hope you were there at the

game and you saw all this stuff. But while I was at the game, I got a text from a friend of mine, A good friend of mine up on the Olympic Peninsula. He's a tribal member. He's a whole tribal member. The reservations just south of the whole river there. And one of his buddies apparently saw a sasquatch on Tuesday, or so he thought, and maybe he did. I know, it was hard to say. I had a hard time getting a hold of him. It took me until Thursday

at three thirty to actually speak to the witness. And once I found out where it was and what he saw said, I decided I had to go up. So I threw them my stuff in the car. I was up on the peninsula. I arrived up in the area, camped on Forest Road twenty one about nine thirty ten thirty at night. Next morning, I went out and checked out the area. I don't know what he saw and what he observed. He was on his lunch break and looking across the river.

He saw what he thought was a fisheries guy, you know, like a fisheries person. It wasn't really tall or anything, but it's very, very bulky, so it's okay, that must be a fishery person. The person walked into the water and then sat down, and he thought that was kind of weird for a fisheries person. And then when he went back to his work on the reservation there the fisheries people were in the office. They say,

what were you doing sitting down the river? He goes, what, we weren't over there, And then he said, well, maybe I saw one of these things, And maybe he did. I don't know. When I went out there, I didn't find any sasquatch prints on the bar or the sandbar, mostly gravel, so that that's excusable, of course, But I did notice there were other people fishing, and so well, maybe there's a chance here he's just misidentified something. But there's also a chance he saw

a sasquatch. Sitting down in the water is an awfully peculiar thing for a fisherman to do, but it's also a kind of a peculiar thing for a sasquatch to do so in the middle of the day. So anyway, long drive, my dog and I had a good time. Melissa's out of town right now, so I was kind of on my own there. Then, I guess the only other good thing about that trip, Well, there's a

lot of great things about that trip. I had a good time, don't get me wrong, but I did run across a couple of Queets tribal members who recognize me from the show, which is great. By the way, So all my friends on the res is out there, thanks so much for loving the show. Like, if I ever want to feel special, I go to a reservation because people say, oh, you're that guy and they tell me about something on the res which is really cool. Really really appreciate

my tribal friends out there. But anyway, one of those guys said, oh, yeah, you're that guy on that show, and blah blah blah. One of my friends found a footprint yesterday or the day before, so I'm still kind of waiting to get that number texted to me. So if you are one of those Queats Fishery dudes who told me about that, you have my number, text me that picture, man, I'd love to see it. And there you go. That's my week in a nutshell. Our

guest is a big footer for many, many years. I know that I've interacted with this gentleman a couple of times before, and I think I've been in the field, but I can't I don't know I've been in the field with so many people. Now I'm gonna have to ask this gentleman here, Chris Spencer, if I've been in the field with him, because I don't even remember. That's how my life is, And honestly, that's more like how my memory is more than my life. My memory is pretty shoddy nowadays,

which is why I try to write everything down. But Chris Spencer has been a big footer for a long time. He actually took a class from Grover Krantz at WSU. I'm want to ask him about that. And he is a very active field guy. He's totally knee deep into or actually necktie probably into field vocalizations and more. One of the key members of the Olympic Project. And I'm just so pleased to be able to talk to them. Thanks so much for quote on big Foot and beyond. Thanks Cliff. I

actually I totally understand the memory thing. I feel like I'm fried all the time. My mind's going all over the place. So we haven't been in the field together, but we've run into each other at conferences and stuff a number of times, and we have mutual friends. So see, I thought I ran into you at one of the Olympic Project gatherings. Although I haven't been on one of those for a couple of years now, I thought that

you were around on one of those. But again, I meet so many people I just have to and I'm not really good at people, you know, in a lot of ways, like trying to keep everybody straight, and names are like water in my hand and they just go straight through. But I always recognize a face and I reckon, I know your face, so I just didn't know where I knew it from. Is all no worries, man, I'm not a people person myself. I'm kind of in my own

zone most of the time. So well, I think that that's one of the characteristics very offen and of a lot of field people feel like, you know, people who like to go out into the woods and put their boots on the ground, and we don't do that because we're we like to hang out with people. Generally, we do that because we like the solitude of the woods. Exactly exactly. I just got back from the woods myself.

So you were saying that on the on the pre show there. Before we get into your current field work and what your projects are, um, can we do a little introductory session for the people listening, because they may or may not know you. You're one of these people that I have great respect for. I hear a lot of good things about you from other people that

I also respect in the field. And one of the characteristics of the people I respect the most is that they're not out there all the time putting you know, like Bobo and I. That's kind of how we make a live and putting our faces out in front of everybody. But you're not one of those people. You're out there kind of working quietly in the woods, behind the scenes, in a lot of places, a lot of a lot of

situations. And I find that very very respectable. Of course, so I imagine most of our audience have not hasn't really heard of you too much either, So tell us a little bit about your background. I know you went to WSU and you met doctor Krantz. Apparently, was that where the interest was born or you interested before that like most people, you know, I'm I grew up in the seventies, so I saw in search of and that

was where the interest probably started. But seriously, thinking about it, didn't didn't occur until I started college and had Grover for Anthropology one oh one. Up to that point, you know, I was interested because I was I was always into dinosaurs, history, the evolution of human beings. That's always fascinated me. And growing up, my parents actually had a cabin in Packwood, Washington, and me and my dad, when I was probably six or

seven, did find some tracks. And I don't remember much about the tracks. I do remember my dad's reaction at the time. I just remember his eyes kind of bulging out of his head and telling me to get in the truck. And that was my first I guess Sasquatch experience. If that was indeed Sasquatch tracks we found, all I know is it freaked my dad out. But yeah, going into the nineties, I started college in ninety one and then I had a Grover for Anthropology one o one the spring of ninety

two. I had no idea he was connected to the big Foot phenomena at all until one day I walked into the lecture hall and on his table was the reconstructed skull of Gigantopithecus and a bunch of tracks, and I to this day I wish I had had a tape recorder. I have the note somewhere in a box in my garage, but he basically covered the whole topic. I guess he would devote one lecture a semester to the topic of sasquatch. And up until that time, you know, I was eighteen, just turned

eighteen. Really sasquatch wasn't on my mind at that age, and my dad had always said that Patterson Gimblin film was just a guy in a suit. So I just kind of followed along with what my dad's thoughts were until that class. I can say when I left that lecture, I absolutely believed that was a real animal, and I had a totally different opinion of the subject up until and I remember thinking at the time, I was like, this is crazy. This is an actual scientist and he believes this is a real

animal. That held a lot of weight for me, and he did. He had he actually had a copy of the Patterson Gimblin film which he showed us over a film projector, and he went over all the reasons why he felt it was a real animal and just kind of opened my eyes to what was actually in the film. Of course, the quality of the film he showed us was better than what I ever saw on TV. So other than you know, I don't remember exact details, but that's that's where kind of

my passion for the subject started. I didn't really dive into actual field research or anything like that after that. But after that class, that's when I pretty much made up my mind in my head is there is something to this and this is a real animal. Well, it's the first time that you decided to do this is a weird way to say it, but do something about that. You know that it's kind of a weird way to frame that

question. But I think you hear the song I'm singing, right, Yeah, yeah, So you know after that, Yeah, i'd gotten a copy of his book Big Footprints or did you get him to sign it, by the way, Yes, I did. Oh that's so cool. Good for you, man. I also bought a copy of I think that he calls it the Dermo's Cast. He talks about it in that book. I have a copy of that I bought from him. I didn't get him to sign that because I didn't think of it, but I have a Yeah, I

have a copy of The Dermo's Cast from him, which is cool. But after that, you know, life went on and It wasn't untill twenty thirteen. You know, I followed this subject as much as anyone would, watching documentaries and TV shows about it. And twenty thirteen, though, me and my son had an experience. My son was thirteen. It was a spring break and I bought him a Walmart two man tent and he really wanted to use it. And it was raining here, I mean western Washington. It

was raining quite a bit. So I told him we'll jump on fourteen. We'll head east, and we came to Scamania County Campground, which is right on the Columbia River, just past the Wind River, and it's only you know, four or five acres maybe, and it's just wooded and you have Highway fourteen on one side of it. You have the river on the other side of it. I think there's a baseball field there. But we pulled

into that campground and this was April fifth. The campground had opened April first, and that year was a really cold year, so I know, the snow levels were still down around two thousand feet and there were elk down at lower levels, and so we went into this campground and we were the only people there. I'm pretty sure we were the first people there, and it was the campground itself around it. Most of the woods was still pretty thick

with just brush and vine maple. I think there's like salmonberry vines growing around. And anyways, we set up camp and we did a little walk around and we actually found I have a picture. I actually have it. I found a twist broken vine maple that had been pushed behind a tree, and underneath it there was a there was like an eighteen by nine inch impression in the pine needles and you could see toes in. It was pretty fresh. Actually have pictures of it somewhere. But we kind of was like, wow,

this is really cool. When about our business, we went fishing. We came back and it started kind of sprinkling, and that cheap little two man tent didn't have a rain fly. So I had tarps in my jeep and I tied two small tarps over the top of it with paracord. We went to bed and I woke up, you know, sometime after midnight hearing

movement in the campground, and my first thought was elk. And just before I fell asleep, something grabbed those tarps and pulled on those tarps and I sat up and I cussed, and it woke my son up, and I just told him it's all right, go back to sleep, and I'd laid back down. I was kind of thinking in my head. I'm like, did I hear what I really heard? And you know, the thought of

that track, we actually found several impressions that day. The thought of those impressions and that limb twist I were in my head and I was like, am I freaking myself out or something? And just as I was hawking myself out of what I heard, it happened again. And that time I hit the panic button on my jeep and it lights flashed, horn honked, and it was I didn't sleep the rest of the night. I heard movement all night around around us, and I want to say it was around four am.

I heard a knock and then everything kind of went quiet. I got up at that Before that I couldn't get out of ten. I was so scared. I got up, built up a fire, waited for my son to get up, and when he got out of the tent, I asked him, what did you hear last night? He goes, I heard you cussing, and I heard the jeep horns and lights go off, and that's it. And then I told him what I heard, and he said, I don't want to stay here again tonight, Dad, And I'm like,

we're not. And we packed up and left. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. We Yeah, that whole area right right at the wind River Mouth area, I'm assuming that's where it was, is very very good. I mean, everywhere from Beacon Rock has just a ton of stuff. At Beacon Rock. I've personally investigated two or three sidings in and around the town of Stevenson, which is right there. Of course, Dog Mountain is over that general direction.

I've got a couple of things off of Dog Mountain as well, And of course I personally investigated footprints and sidings and a whole lot of historical stuff up the wind River Highway as well. Of course, and you know the Scamania County law that was passed in what seventy or seventy one or something, maybe sixty nine. We're right in there. On April fools Day, which is next week. Anniversaries next week, I actually be when we're recording this.

It followed a bunch of stuff that happened up kind of near Panther Creek Campground and Bear Creek actually specifically, which included sheriffs and whatever going up and casting footprints and man that, Yeah, that area is just thick with Bigfoot history. So I'm not very surprised at all, no matter how close you

were to the fourteen that something may happened that night. Yeah. I actually I went back there the next year and they had actually cleaned up the campground, so all that thicker cover that was in the trees around the campground was

cleaned up and you could see forever, so it had changed. I haven't been there in a long time, but I spent most of twenty fourteen just kind of looking at reports on the bf ORO site and running around that area down there because of what had happened, And it just dawned on me that, you know, I need to go somewhere where there's where there's food.

And I saw a report David Ellis had taken in two thousand and nine up by Mount Saint Helens, and I actually ended up going up there and starting to throughout audio recorders, maybe a mile from where that report was taken and sure enough I actually recorded some suspicious stuff and started talking to David a lot about it, and that was an area that I investigated till about twenty nineteen. Since then, I've been mainly working with a little the Olympic Project,

basically with Shane up in the Nest area. Gotcha, gotcha? So how far is it to the general Araban? And I know where the nest is, but nobody else says and people shouldn't know. Um, So it takes you what about from there? Probably about two hours, fore hour, two and a half hours, two and a half hours, about two and a half hours. It's not that bad of a john. Okay, that's good. So that's where that's your main site of research at these days. Yeah,

that's about I'll have time for right now. You know. I get together with other researchers from other groups, both me, Shane and and Todd. We go we go meet up with other people and other areas and do some campouts every year, but mainly at least once a month as much as

we can. We're kind of up in the Nest area. So that's honestly, you know, I it's one of those things is I've been monitoring that area with long term audio for two years now, and I know they're a sasquatch there, so I really don't have any reason to go somewhere else, and I really want to learn more about that area, and it just that's where most of my attention is. Yeah, well, there's only so many hours in the day. And it sounds that you have a family and all

that sort of stuff too. Yeah, you have to make a use what time you have, you know. Yep, very good. So you just said it, But what year did you start getting involved with the Olympic project and the nest site specifically? In twenty seventeen? Me and Shane had been going out camping in other areas and we'd become friends. In twenty seventeen he actually invited me into the Nest area, and I want to say it was twenty actually twenty twenty. Right after him, he and Todd walked in on

a nest being built. He asked me to come out and start putting some of my long long term audio recorders out there, and so I The first audio recorder I put out there was right after that. I want to say it was three weeks they walked in on that nest being built, and then in twenty twenty one, I don't know if you're familiar with wesleyam from squattro

Metrics. He's his thing is statistical analysis. And me and him were talking and he's like, wouldn't it be cool to log all the sounds from dusk till dawn for as many nights as we could get in there, And I was like, let's do it. So I actually invested some money into some SM four recorders, which is put out by Wildlife Bioacoustics. These are recorders that actual scientists use, actual wildlife biologists use to study other animals, and

it allows you to record. I mean they'll hold two one terror byte SD cards in them, so if you have the power, you have the you could actually record for months on end, if that's what you wanted to do. And so I set them up so they were I basically get about fifty nights at them at a time with each one, and we're up there more than that. I don't like letting the recorders go that long because it gets

built up for review. But we set up these long term recorders around the nest are one over by where the new one was found and one in between and one where the original nests were found. And just basically started logging everything from dusk till dawn and I basically review audio and then I punched it all into a spreadsheet send it to West. And we haven't done the full analysis yet. I just finished reviewing twenty twenty two. I actually got every single

night recorded in twenty twenty two. In twenty twenty one, I got fifty eight percent of nights, and he did a light analysis. That light analysis is on the OP website for anyone that wants to look at it. And as soon as I get everything logged, probably this summer, he'll start doing a more in depth analysis for twenty twenty two. So you said fifty eight percent of the knights, so you had some sort of activity that you would identify as sasquatch. No no, no, no, no, no,

no. Fifty eight percent of nights for twenty twenty one were recorded. I'm just talking about how many nights are recorded. The stats for that or in the light version that's West made public on the OP site last year, but we're there. We were finding that there was a lot more suspicious sound activity than we ever expected going into it. Me and Shane. We've always assumed that they were only there at a specific time of year when the thought was

the nest were being built. But what we found is there they're passing through the area pretty regularly. In it I mean the in the wintertime of course, with whether and stuff, And just because you don't record a suspicious sound doesn't mean the absence of the animal. But on a regular basis, it's usually about every three nights, every three to four nights, we get some

kind of suspicious activity. And what and what I do with the spreadsheet, I'm not saying that everything is sasquatch and I'm in the spreadsheet, everything's logged as unknown or an ambiguous. An ambiguous is usually something that is too distant to really make an identification on, and it could be it could be an unknown which we assume would might possibly be a sasquatch because of other things happening.

Usually there's not just vocalizations. There's going to be percussive sounds. And I want to also say they don't make a lot of noise, so it's not like there's a ton of noise going on, and we're getting all these vocalizations and percussive all the time, that's not happening, but on a fairly

regular basis there seems to be a presence in the area. Yeah, I'm looking at the report right now, which of course is on Olympic project dot com that's under the I think the new additions or something like that in recent editions, something to that effect right now, And I love what you guys

have done. I'm looking at the page right now where all the different species that you've been able to identify so far have been tallied, and you have right there unknown and also ambiguous, which I think is a totally fruitful category to be putting a lot of these things in because you may not know. And one question that I know this over here in the right gun shots, here's a question for you. How does one differentiate between gunshots and wood knocks.

Well, just I've been reviewing in Spectrogram since twenty fifteen and I've done a lot of knocking experiments with my recorders. But I also talking with David Ellis, and I've gotten a lot of help from David Ellis and Nagahela on all my audio. I've learned a lot from both of them. Yeah,

they're both I go to guys for audio stuff, absolutely absolutely. But if you look at gunshots in spectrogram, there's actually you'll see they'll be running usually down the full range of frequencies, and there's usually a little pop before the actual explosion of the gunshot. And the signature itself looks once you've seen it enough, it looks totally different from let's say a rock on rock or wood on wood. It's hard for me to articulate, but when I see it,

I just I know it. I've when I first started, I actually went out. I took one of my recorders and I measured out ninety foot increments, so thirty five yard increments, and I would hit a tree with wood on wood, do rock on wood, and do rock on rock out to about one hundred and twenty yards, just to see what those sounds looked like on my recorder in spectrogram, and also kind of to get an idea

of how close these things were occurring to my recorder. That's a good answer, because what you told me in a nutshell is that they looked at front on a spectrograph, and you've done experiments as a calibration marker. I guess to see what knocks sound like various kinds of knocks too, wood on wood

and rock on rock, and a bunch of other stuff like that. And certainly I guess you know, you can always do more experimentation if you choose, but that's a really good foundation on which you can build and do some differentiation here. Yeah, absolutely, because I don't shut the door on any sound. It's sound unless you actually see the sound being created, you can't really say exactly what it is, but you can make some pretty good educated

guesses. Are there sounds on the Olympic Project website that people can listen to? That's in the works. Shane's trying to get those put up there. I do have a YouTube channel. It was my personal YouTube channel, but I have stuff from the Nest area on it. Now. I have some

vocalizations. We call it singing vocalizations. We have some whistles. Most of my YouTube though, I have known animal because I'm constantly I want people to really look at the sounds when instead of everything's a sasquatch when they record it,

to actually do some investigation. So because I get sent audio a lot, and so the main contributors to that audio, I try to put up examples of it, such as barred owl and kyote, and giving different examples of those animals because individual an individual animals within those species will create their own noise and they will sound they have a wide range, and they will sound screwing. So there's a lot of different vocalizations done by known animals that are

constantly, constantly being mistaken for sasquatch. So that's what my YouTube's a lot of that is about. I put up non animals sounds. I have like crow talking, crow knocking because crows will actually make a percussive sound with their mouths. And my YouTube channel does have unknown sounds that I attribute to sasquatch that were recorded in the nest area. One in particular we called chimp fit

because it literally sounds like chimpanzees. Yeah, I saw that there was a spectrograph in the in the paper you guys have published on this particular vocalization. Is that right? Yes, that one. It's not the best recording because it was actually recorded with one of my homemade long term audio units, but it's profound because in spectrogram there's no way you can mistake this for an owl

or coyote signature. It's its own signature, and I actually pulled some chimpanzee vocalizations off the McCauley Librarius sound to do comparison, and it resembles chimpanzee vocalizations. Is specifically chimpanzees that we're getting excited when they were seeing their zookeepers come to them, knowing that the zookeepers would have food, and the whole structure of what happened in the nest area of that those vocalizations were not exactly the

same as chimpanzee, but really profoundly close. Basically, what you had was in the nest area an individual doing some high pitched whooping that built up into a scream, actually two screams. There was another individual distant making some noise, and then and a third individual doing very low pant hoots after the screamer

screamed, and I found two in the McCauley library. So I found several chimpanzee situations where you had a female chimpanzee getting excited in a male chimpanzee doing very low pant hoots, and both of them would build up into a scream, and it was I do a whole YouTube breakdown of it on my channel, and to me, it was like it's profound just because you can't miss it. This is primate. Whatever I recorded in the Nest area's primate and

it sounds a lot like chimpanzee. And for those people listening out there, his YouTube page is Chris Spencer Tootle River Valley Skukum. I typed and Chris Spencer came up right away. But for those who are a little bit more technically challenged, in case Bobo's listening and he wants to try to go find this YouTube page, you could just click the link in the show notes.

Okay, so some of the other findings of your focus on the nest site, what time of year or let me ask you this, is there a time of year that they seem to be more vocal in the area, just for me reviewing, not going by any statistical analysis that Wes has done yet.

And what's funny is when I give over the spreadsheets, West finds things that I don't see and I'm reviewing the stuff, but you know, basically, fall is a big, big time that period between August in October where this year at least was seemed to be quite a bit and springtime it doesn't. It's actually doesn't surprise me because as far as vocalizations go, that's kind of what I found in the area I was investigating near Saint Helen's. And I would mind you, when I was doing that, I was only maybe

recording three or four nights a week. I wasn't recording every night, but it seemed to be more vocalizations in the spring and in the fall, but in the necessary one thing, like I said, there's there's been activity pretty much year round. I wouldn't. They're they're actively walking through that particular Uh those there's several ravines there. As you know you've been there. They're actively walking through there on a really regular basis. They're not like disappearing for months

on end. They're they're still there. They're utilizing that area. And actually, right now, that's kind of our focus right now is we've got this audio, we've got an idea of where a lot of the sounds we recorded are coming from, and we're actively looking for physical evidence of their travels. And you know, we actually we found some physical evidence tuesday. I'm actually

really excited right now. It's an exciting time because it's one thing to capture this audio, but then to have some kind of confirming evidence that yes, indeed you're recording something. There should be physical evidence. If a sasquatch is making these noises and you know you've been in the next area, there's going to be physical evidence. They've got to be causing some kind of damage to

the environment that we can find. And that's kind of our focus right now is I'm slowing down on the audio and now we're focused on really getting in there and exploring around and looking for that physical evidence. And can you tell us what sort of physical evidence you came across on Tuesday? So we look

for huckleberry breaks, and I'll go back a little bit. In twenty twenty one, Shane had gone into the area by himself and he noticed some fresh huckleberry breaks from the logging road that went off towards one of these ravines. Well, myself, Rebecca and Todd came in with him a week or so later, and we did some hiking and we found that there's these these trails of broken huckleberries ranging from four feet high up to the highest, you know,

seven feet up. The branches broken off and discarded on the ground, and all the bushes had berries on them, but the branches that were broken off and discarded on the ground were lacking berries. None of the branches had tooth marks or claw marks or cut marks, and some of them were quite large. Some of them were an inch and a half in diameter. Twist

broke off and like I said, stripped of berries. And on top of this, Todd Hill actually located where they had crossed one of the logging roads from They were traveling from one ravine to the other ravine and they had crossed one of these logging roads. And we found several sets of impressions. One was about a seventeen inch in length. I can't remember the width, but Todd took a he has both of us now have the Scandy pro app on our phones, and he took a scan of it. It's one of those

deals we kick ourselves. Now. We should have cast it. We did not. I don't think we had any casting material with us. But it was a really good impression where you can see that you would know better that mid push up, that breaking point where the flexibility of the foot where they kind of has a push up ridge in the middle of it, and you can see toe detail in it. But but yeah, so we we've got these these huckleberry breaks, and and this was a lot of damage. It

wasn't just like a few here and there. This was like a clear trail of multiple animals going through the huckleberry for you know, over one hundred yards from one ravine to the other end. It was just so obviously they were

stripping the berries off and just discarding the branches. Now fast forward to this last Tuesday, this one particular ravine, over the ravine that the new nest was found on further I would say further to the west of that, we decided to explore anary that no one has explored before, and that's where a lot of the sound we believe was coming from. We fought our way into it, and it was a fight. It was. It was brutal.

I know, both Shane and I have mentioned many times in the past how brutal it is in there, but this was worse than ever in thickness of huckleberry. And we got to this one area where stuff started clearing out and we started finding these breaks, and once again it was the same scenario. You had huckleberry ranging from four feet up to all the way up to seven feet broken off, twist broke, pulled broke, and it was older and

me and Shane kind of figured this happened last fall. This was they were in here feeding last fall and you could see trails that had been mashed down were something large and been walking through the area. Shane actually he's got we got a lot of video of it. But Shane took a really cool video. He found one branch that it was an inch and a half piece of huckleberry made two feet long, hanging out of a cedar tree like it had

been just tossed over someone's shoulder. At least that's what I envisioned my head. But it was exciting because it was the same thing we found in twenty twenty one, and we figured it happened probably about the same time in twenty twenty two looking at the age of the breaks that it was probably about six months ago and it was obvious feeding feeding behavior in our opinion, Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after

these messages. And the next site is like a sponge that you continue to squeeze and get a little bit more water every single time. Out of it's kind of a neat a neat situation. Any news on them logging it or when shutting you guys out on that, That's last I heard was they didn't have any permits to log it. But that's one of our concerns, and that's why we're trying to do as much as we can exploring this year. We're actively looking at areas connected to the nest area to move into in search.

But this area particular, we want to, like you said, going there because it I mean, there could be stuff five feet away from you you wouldn't see unless you walked right up on top of it. But as far as them logging it, we don't know. But I do know this. There's some new surveyor tape on one of the ravines that wasn't there the year before, so I know the timber surveyors are starting to survey, which is an indication that there's going to be some logging in the future, hopefully

not soon, but I don't know yet. Yeah, it was kind of a big area too, though. Imagine they can log one area and just push them somewhere else for a little while and you can just change your focus

in there. But you know, I would have to agree that, like my work and why field areas are indicating one of the things that you mentioned that is kind of goes against the grain I guess of what a lot of people have assumed for a long time and bigfoot research, and that is that I strongly believe now that they stay in the same area pretty much all the time. And mind you, that area might be very large, and I

know the nest site area in the surrounding areas it's very large area. But my area is ten miles by ten miles probably, And oh that sounds it's not a really big area. But I mean, you know, in the words of Stephen right, it's a small world. But I wouldn't want to paint it right. Yeah, it's a tremendously large area when you're walking through the brush and trying to find minuscule trace evidence of something with big, soft,

padded feet moving by. But so far, one of my areas has yielded footprints and casts five eight times now, actually longer than that because other people have been working at two But it's all from the same area and it doesn't matter what time of year. The only thing that we're noticing is that it happens about once every three months. That's when we stumble across something. That doesn't mean they're not there otherwise, but that's just when I happen to

get we happen to get lucky. And so far the pattern is once every three months we're walking away with something like a footprint cast or two. But obviously they're there more often than that. So again, I think that this idea that they migrate or they've all moved to the coast or or you know all that stuff. I just think it's if they don't have to move,

they won't. Why would they hundred percent agree with you, and I've heard you talk about what you're doing in I'm always like, yeah, And if you look at the nest area, there's food wise, there's absolutely no reason for them to travel. There's none. I mean, there's so many different opportunities there. Why would you travel if he didn't have to? And the thick cover they have the cover to conceal themselves and operate without being noticed by

humans. And they also have that benefit of private land. It's logging land, but it's private land. And that's that's the case in one of my areas as well. The National forests that we go on borders logging land essentially, and we have a permit for that logging land, so now we can go on there, and we've started doing so. But nonetheless all all of our best stuff is coming either right at the border, like on the Forest Service land, or just across the border into the Warehouser land in this case.

Yeah, so I don't think they're moving very far. And one of the other things I've noticed from the squatrometrics paper that you have published is something else that was pointed out to me, you know, twenty years ago by Kathy Strain, is that there's something going on with coyotes. There's just something going on. Can you talk about what you've been learning from your studies of listening to vocalizations about the connection, the possible probable in my opinion, connection

between sasquatches and coyotes. Absolutely, it's one of my favorite things. So kyote they live in family groups and the alpha it's basically the alpha male and

alpha female and their children. That's basically a kyote pack. And when a larger predator comes in the air, usually the alpha male will do what I call a warning location call, where he kind of does that kill deer thing where he brings attention to himself while warning his family that there's something bigger in the area, is such as a cougar, because cougars actively hunt coyotes.

And one thing I noticed that the call is basically it can be a scream how a scream yodel or like scream barking, and the kyote will do this, you know, for seconds up to I've recorded it for hours where the kyle is running around doing this call all night long. And we noticed on nights that we were getting suspect activity. The kyote in that area was making the kyote warning call the same time and within if not the same night,

but within a twenty four hour period of picking up suspect sounds. There's kyote warning location calls going off. I think the night that chimp fit was recorded, there were sixteen other suspicious vocalizations, but there were seventeen kyote warning calls, and in some cases that kyot went on for an hour straight scream barking

and scream howling. There's absolutely a connection to kyots in my opinion. Do you have any speculations as to what that might be, Well, I would suggest that sasquatch would be a bigger predator than kyote, and the kyotes probably not wanting to interact with that sasquatch and wants his family to know there's a sasquatch in the area. Okay, So you think that it's just kind of coincidence that the sasquatches and kyotes are in the same area and the and the

kyoties are just giving a heads up that they're around. Yeah, I think because because I get kyote vocalizations regular, just howling or the pack in the pups, especially in the spring, will You'll get the pups going off and just you're you know, when you have multiple kyouts going off, howling, yipping and yodeling, that's that's common. And then when it's the warning call, is always a single kyote making that house scream. And you know,

actually I get the house scream gets sent to me. People think that's bigfoot all the time, and I'm like, no, that's kyot And like I said earlier, different animals, individual animals within a species can make different sounding calls. And I've got kyouts that have really deep voices and kyouts that have really high voices, and they'll they all do that scream howl, and some people mistake that alpha sasquatch quite a bit. Actually, it's kind of a

running joke. Todd's always like, what do you think it is, Chris, And it is like kyote when I get sent audio, But that I think what's happening is the kyouts are there, they're running doing whatever they're doing as kyots, and when our target subjects are coming into the area, that alpha male is letting the rest of the pack know that the target subjects in the area. You know, I could be wrong, It could be because

there's a cougar in the area. But when you look at it from a statistical standpoint, as West has, every time I've logged a suspicious vocalization and suspicious percussives is within twenty four hours twelve hours each side of those occurring,

if not right after those occur, I'm getting kyot warning calls. Well it makes sense, I think, you know, because no matter how good a recorder you have, it only picks up so far, and those kyo would have to be in the same general area as in the suspicious possible sasquatch noises as well, which actually brings something brings a question up as far as maybe calibration or just um for your own purposes, have you figured have you recorded

vocalizations? Because you said you have more than one recorder out in the area, have you recorded a vocalization on both recorders at the same time? Yes, I have you have? Okay, okay, does that help you place where they might be coming from? Absolutely? How do you? How do

you do that? Well? You can in spectrogram. You can see the strength of the signature, how hard it it's hitting on it, and when it's let's say that my long term recorder in Nestary three, that's one of our designated areas I've picked up, we get a lot of scream roars. That's one of the vocals we get. I've picked up scream more are closer to it while also picking it up over by the old nest area further away. And also when I place my recorders, all my recorders are running on

stereo mics. I can see each channel for each recorder and spectrogram which Mike is picking up that signal strongest. So I can kind of figure out, Okay, I know when I place my recorders, I place the mics are either pointed north south or east west. I try to orient them so I know what direction each mic has pointed, so I can start putting a picture

together where those vocals are coming from. So I got this vocals. It's in nest Ary three closer, and it's hitting on the right mic, which is pointed north, so that means it's actually in between nest Ary three and another recording area we call fresh Camp, where I have another recorder. So it gives up me a rough idea where the vocals are coming from. By doing this, have you noticed that the vocalizations continue to come from the same

general areas. Yes, there's I've actually moved recorders into areas because of that to try to capture closer vocalizations. It sounds messed up, but they find my recorders. They know my recorders are there. And there's one place where I had actually stuck it deep in the ravine where I knew most of the vocalizations were coming from, and they shut up. But they started power knocking next to that recorder. They would go by that recorder and do a slam

grand home run next to that recorder versus making any kind of vocalization. Yeah, it's kind of a sounds like maybe it's a heads up or something like

that. Yeah, one of the things I've noticed over the years, And I'd like to know your thoughts on this is a lot of times, and I'm not the only person who's notices, don't I don't think when you first show up, or when somebody leaves an area and leave somebody behind, that's when they tend to knock, right absolutely, okay, Yeah, so which gives me some sort of comfort in speculating that that would be a hey something's changed, or hey, something's unusual. There are something's going on here,

pay attention, which which might go well with this. When you move your recorder into an area, they do a couple of power knocks just let you know, let other people know. It's just like kyotes do. And they're not not not knocks, but you know, they're calls like something's up called. I always say when people contact me, you want to start doing this

type of stuff, the long term recording. I pretty much everywhere that I've ever done this, at some point in time, whether the sasquatch are seeing me going back and forth to the recorder, over time, they figure out there's something there and there's going to be a power knock. If not on the tree next to it, Um, there's going to be some kind of acknowledgment of it, and I just take it as stupid human thing right here.

Yeah, so to those ends, I know there's not a lot of stupid human things out in the next site area, but there are a couple. There are some human things out there. There's some structures, for example, and gates, and probably a handful of other things I haven't even run across yet, power line pools or something. I don't know. There's bound to be a couple of things. Have you thought about hanging technology on or around those? Not? At this point would basically have been focusing on the

ravines where the nests were originally found in. But actually, you know, it's funny. Yesterday we try to go to the one structure you're talking about. I think you've visited it with Shane at one point, and we got some wild dogs chased us off. Basically, yeah, man, who knows who's living in that thing? Man? Because somebody is. Sometimes it was

a little bit scary. Oh yeah, No, I've and I've gotten you know, I've I've recorded some percussive not a lot but I've recorded a few percussives that we're on seemed to be on metal, and whether they're on the gate or not, that there seems to be some hitting of metal at some points in time. Whether that's our target subjects or not, I don't know. But oh that that brings up another question I'd like to ask people like yourself who are kind of like the sound nerds, you know, have you

recorded other sounds that are completely out of place? The one I always bring up, or card door slamming, because I've heard it myself, I've been with people who have heard it. Bobo's heard it. ANYWAC guys have heard it down an area X. It seems to be something having to do a

sasquatches, probably some sort of imitation that they make. I'm guessing at this point, have you recorded any unusual sounds that you have a sneaking suspicion might be sasquatches, even though it doesn't sound like that beside and of course you just mentioned one, but anything else as far as like if you're percussive wise, I've never gotten anything like a card door I've heard of that one before,

but I've never gotten anything like that. I've gotten some odd vocal that kind of made me pause, but nothing that I would I would think they were mimicking anything. Okay, now you mentioned singing though, like that suspicious singing and that scores on your website. Oh it's even called suspicious singing. Now that I look at it, What a coincidence? Do you think that might be a sasquatch? Oh? Absolutely, I call it. See I've

always called those vocalizations high low vocals. You'll usually have a vocalizer hitting really low on the Hurts range and then a responding vocalizer. It's arguable whether it's the same vocalizer or not. I think it's two different individuals hitting really high notes. And that's been recorded not only in the Necessaria, that's been recorded in other areas. I've talked with Nauga Halo about it. David has gotten

the same kind of vocalizations from other areas. Kirk Brandenburg recorded something similar in an area of interest. And I've always called them high low, but Managa Hala and David call them singing vocalizations. So that's why I've been referring to them as singing vocalizations. Now, I mean some of them, I don't know human that would do that kind of vocalization. I don't. I'm not saying that it couldn't be done. That's one thing I always tell people.

The biggest worry when I'm recording is the human contamination, because no matter what anyone says, human beings can make most the sounds that sasquatch make, and vice versa. So I'm always really worried about human beings in the area making vocalizations when I'm recording. But that that sing song high high low or low high vocals, there's a there's a brassy tone to them. There's a deep almost echoing with it. I can't articulate it as well as David Elstaes,

but it's it's just they're odd. Well, you know it says it's on your website, it's at the YouTube channel here. Why don't we play it for our listeners. They can put their ears on it and hear what we're talking about here. It's interesting sounding, the very almost whistling in a way, but not quite. What software do you use for your work here?

I use Audacity. I use a spectrogram in Audacity. I originally start out with Sonic Visualizer, and then you know, most of the stuff I was finding in Sonic Visualizer, I would clip anyways in Audacity, so I switched over to Dacity. Also, I started talking with Montagua Hala a lot, and he uses Audacity, and I just got used to using that spectrogram.

One other thing I noticed in Sonic Visualizer when I was reviewing and i'd see something, I would play it in it within the program of Sonic Visualizer, and then when i'd moved that file to Dacity to clip, when I played in Audacity, it didn't sound the same. So Sonic Visualizer, as far as audible noises in it kind of distorts what you're you're listening to. Where's Audacity, You're listening to what your recorder actually recorded. So that's why I

went with that. Oh okay, I wasn't aware that Audacity, I see, I don't use those. I have a I subscribe to the Adobe Creative Suite for the museum because I use you know, Illustrator and um, you know Premiere for our member videos and Photoshop, and so I just have whatever that they have. It was used to be called a sound booth. I think it's called audition or something that I'm not sure what it is. But

that's when I use just but I have a subscription for it. Most people do, in fact to use aud audacity, and that wasn't a word that they had a spectrograph built into the program. Yeah, it took me. If you go to Monaga Hala's YouTube, I think he has some video in there how he sets it up. I actually made a YouTube video myself. It's on my channel on how I set it up and I set my spectagram

in a dassy up exactly like Monaga Hala does. Yeah. Well, I mean he's one of the best, so you definitely want to follow any advice that he gives. I think that everybody should listen very closely too. Yep. And under your kind of summary areas of focus page on your presentation from Squatro Metrics that you can download or look at right now at the Olympic Project dot com. It's it notes the time of day that most vocalizations are recording

for, which brings up two questions or two thoughts. I guess number one, do you record twenty four to seven or do you set it for sunrise Sunday? What's your timing? Because I have a bunch of long duration recorders out. I think I have two or three deployed at this very moment. I generally set them from about this time of year, probably about seven to seven or something like that. What do you do. I'm pretty much doing the same thing. I look at when the recording dusk still done. I'm

not recording all day long. It's not that ye not that sasquatch couldn't be making some kind of vocal during the day. I just don't think they do it during the day. Is often, and most noise is going to happen at night when I think they're more comfortable. But basically about an hour before before dusk and about an hour after dawn. That's what I set the recorders for. During the wintertime, I'll have them record fourteen hours. By summertime,

I'm only recording nine hours. Yeah. And also it's a it's a thing that sound actually travels better at night. It has to do a temperature or water content in the air or something like that, but you'd probably be better off. Yeah. So that was one of the things I wanted to see, how what you're doing, because you know, I don't know a lot about anything, really, and I only know as much as I do because I surround myself with people who are really into what they do and people

who are smarter than me. And all that's to stuff, you know. It's what any you know, person who runs a business, for example, like I do, or you know he's on a team member or any sort does you know you surround yourself with people who are smarter than you and so you can contribute as well. I want to make sure that I was doing something right. God knows. Man, if I'm not making a mistake, I'm probably asleep, is my thought on it. But that's science, man.

Science is a series of mistakes. That's how we learn. I mean, I I make mistakes all the time. I'm I'm self taught on all this as just have a passion for it, and I just want to I'm just want to learn as much as I can about about our special animals. So right, right, yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, it's nice to be able to make us mistakes and be okay with it. I might might tend to be rather high profile mistakes that people throw throw stones at me for, I guess, um, but whatever, screw it, I'm okay

with it. Um. And my other question about the time of day stuff is It says here that most of the most of the most of the unknown vocalizations. According to this, almost eighty five percent of them happened before one am. Now that's something that very informally, just you know, my own work in the field. They're out in the woods. It seems that the sweet spot for me hearing vocalizations is generally between eleven and two somewhere around there.

And that's just been my gut feeling. I don't have any numbers to back it up or anything. But also, to be fair, I tend to fall asleep sometime around three, so I didn't know if so. I'm kind of happy in a way that I see that perhaps I'm not missing as much as I thought I was. But of course I'm know I'm missing something. But what are your thoughts on when they seem to be vocalizing? And

do you have any idea why? As far as in the nestary and I always kind of throw it out there that what these individuals are doing might be different than individuals in another area are doing. But like Wes found when he was running the numbers, he's like there's a huge shift from vocalizations to percussive sounds after one am, and they I still have vocals after one am. I still. I mean, I got some pretty interesting vocals, you know,

right there at dawn at five am. But generally speaking, vocalizations are happening from dusk till one am. And then you see a shift too, if there is anything suspicious going on, some percussive sounds. And I actually they use a lot of percussive sounds in my opinion. But as far as why that is, I honestly at this point, I haven't deviled in my brain that far. I'm just I'm kind of in that mode of log everything and get it punched in the spreadsheet and send it to West and start really

hypothesizing later. Oh I get it, Yeah, do the work. Let the nerds figure it out, right, I get it now. But I'm nerd two. That's why I say that so happily. By the way, do you notice because they're vocalizing at the front part of the night, you know, the first part of the night. Is there a pickup at the end of the night before daylight? I haven't In reviewing, I haven't seen

that. I've seen, Like I said, mostly percussives like this one area, And what I find interesting is there'll be a shift in times that they're passing by the recorder. At least that's my interpretation of it. In one area in September, I was getting a lot of percussive sounds between four and

five. It's like they're coming by the recorder every other morning between four and five on their way to do whatever they're doing, and slam in a tree and I've got a couple of vocals with that, some whoops but not nothing like a lot of vocalization. And then somewhere it shifted around October they kind of went quiet, and then all of a sudden, I started getting the same kind of percussives between ten and eleven, and it's like, Okay,

something changed in their schedule. Now they're moving through that area at a different time. So the little things like that that has actually intrigued me is like, why is this happening there? There? There's obviously a change in whatever routine they got going. It'll be interesting to see if that pattern holds up year to year as well. Absolutely, Yeah, I'm you know, I see things as I review, but I forget things a lot because I'm I'm

constantly reviewing and reviewing three different recorders from the same area. That's one thing. It gets a little monotonous when I review one recorder and then I got to review the recorder that's a quarter mile away from it the same time period, and then stuff gets jumbled in my head. But I have tons of notebooks, so well, yeah, are at least you're doing that, you know, leaving something behind because once the animals are recognized by academia and everybody

else, Um, this is history. We're making history, and if you're doing it right, your history will be remembered. You know. That's something that's kind of cool. It's not the reason to do it. It's not like an ego thing, but at the same time, it's it's kind of neat to know that you're contributing to something that will outlast all of us, you know. Yeah, And that's calm. I hope. I don't look

at I'm like I'm doing anything profound or shocking. I'm just I'm doing what I enjoy doing for one, and then you know, and then two, I think it's important and there's somebody else a lot smarter than me down the road might be able to use some of this for whatever purpose. You know. I don't look at it as like I don't know. I just look at it as something that needs to be done, and you know, ten years down the road, someone else might be able to do something with it

that I can't think of. Right. Look at all the all the information we're still getting out of, say the Patterson Gimlin film, you know, O, we're fifty years ago now, or even new stuff was discovered about the Jerry Crew cast, you know, as recently as the late two thousands, you know, two thousands, what is it, fifth fourteen? I think new stuff was discovered about the Jerry Crew cast. Yeah, so you just never know, collect at all and let the future nerds, you know,

sort it out. It's kind of my thought, but I think you hit upon something that I think is the most important thing about sasquatch stuff. You enjoy it, I sincerely think, I mean, do the I think all of us should be out there doing the best job we possibly can with

gathering stuff. But there's so many different ways to pursue this subject, and there's so many cool avenues of inquiry and things that have never been thought of, and and and just to do what you like to do in this field is its own reward in my thought, you know, in my opinion. So Chris, I think you're doing great work. You're doing it for the right reasons. You've got the primo spot. Man, it is fantastic.

Where where can people follow what you're doing. I mean you have the YouTube channel, which of course is the links in the show notes here, but if you're driving and you just want to write things down or something, it's Chris Spencer toutele River Valleys, scuokum, anything else going on you want to

talk about. No, that's that's pretty much it. We're trying to get the OP website updated more and more often and try and we're hopefully going to get links to my YouTube channel onto the OP website and as far as whenever we get done, when Wes gets done with any kind of statistical analysis, we'll be putting that up on the OP website as well. Well. Fantastic. I want to thank you for your time and your research and all that stuff, and if you have time, I'd love to talk to you in

our member section. We have a little membership and of course for people who are listening and want to become a member. Basically, what you get. I mean, somebody was complaining I guess this past week on social media. We save all the good stuff for our members, and I want to point out that that is inaccurate. By the way, what members get is extra

stuff. We don't save all the good stuff. We do occasionally post photographs or something on our members because there's no other place for us to do that. But you know, just so you know, don't feel like you're being cheated if you don't. If you can't, you know, you don't want to pay the five dollars a month or something like that. Relax, everything's cool. You're our friend, We love you. You know. We're all

bf's here Bigfoot friends. Everything's cool. Don't worry about it. But you get extra stuff, not the best stuff, Like we don't save the very very best stuff for people who give us five bucks a month. We just give them more stuff. So don't think about it like that. We're all friends here again BFS, Bigfoot Friends. That's us. Cliff and Bobo are your best friends. Best Bigfoot friends anyway. So if you want to become a member, go to the website Bigfoot to be on podcast dot com click

the links through the membership stuff goes to a Patreon deal. I hear it's very popular. I hear that people are really enjoying the extra stuff. And now we're going to disappear and have Chris on for our membership section and we'll talk about more stuff. So thank you very much Chris for coming on, and everybody else out there, all right, keep it squatchy. Thanks for

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