Big Food and Beyond.
With Cliff and Bubo.
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Righteous on yesterday and listening, oh watching Lin always keep it squatching and now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.
This guy's a big figure. We respect him a lot. He's been involved for fifty sixty years. Whatever it's been, well the information, he's still got stuff going on. He just sent me some audio through the other day. That's something out just in the last two weeks. Great guy, great researcher and a friend of the Squatch and this show. John Andrews from Washington.
John, thank you very much for coming on Big Putting Beyond and welcome. We're so pleased and honored to have you.
Yeah.
Well, John Andrews, And as I say, I've been at this long and I'd like to admit since believe it or not, the late nineteen fifties and into the sixties in Colorado. So I started there and expanded my research into several of the Western States and British Columbia as well, and even at one point was already to go on an expedition to Mongolia to look for the almas for the almasty. So you know, in all these years, well,
I've had quite a bit here. I've always wanted to go to other areas more of a worldwide view of what's going on. And we can discuss that later.
Well, John, so you said you got into it in the late nineteen fifties early nineteen sixties. Was it the Jerry Crewe incident that got you in it, or perhaps John Green or what got you going?
Yeah? Hey, what a guy questioned, Because I've been reviewing my notes here and I just put down the word Jerry Crew and so you might have remembered in the well Boy Scout article back at that time, was talking about Jerry Crew, and I talked about the Go Road, which you all know about, and I visited and spent about a week back in there here several years ago, starting off with rather a strained incident even before we
went in to that area. So all the things had happened there, you know, the earth moving wheel being picked up and rolled, and then culverts, and I've worked with culverts, you know, twenty foot long culverts being literally picked up and carriaging them. The thrown into a little ravine or something. When I read that, it only took me two seconds to realize something real is going on. It didn't take me long to figure out Bigfoot Israel.
Now, did you ever have a chance to meet Jerry Crew back in the day or did there never made the connection.
No, it was some time before we even got into northern California and going up the Go Road, hearing about the history of it and knowing that it was the one of the local bands I won't call him, tried Indian bands that actually stopped the Go Road from going
into their sacred area. And it was like a movie, driving up this nice uh it looked like freshly black asphalted road and seeing the four slowly en roach upon that road, and then parking and then hiking in from there into a big burn area where we spent four or five or six days. So I never met him, but I've certainly had become familiar with that country here more recently, I see.
And you were living out in Colorado at that time.
You said, yeah, I was in Colorado, and then we moved to Montana after that, and I carried on my research there.
Now you've been back then everybody was in contact with snail mail and phone calls pretty much, because that was only those are the only games in town. Do you remember being in contact with some of those early researchers back of the day, and what were those interactions like?
Well, you know, obviously I'd probably forgotten more than I remember, but Bob Tipmas, who really was a big figure. I think they might have faded a bit now because he's died, and as you know, he spent a lot of his life as the next paid up in Harrison. Hodgeprings close to John Green, and I visited him on several occasions on my own and spent hours with him, and he told me some fabulous stories that I'm sure he didn't
tell anybody else. And he also gave me a cast of his bigfoot that he had in northern California, and so I've got that to this day.
You gotta tell us some of those stories.
Yeah, yeah, So can you tell us something that Bob told me? Because unfortunately, Bob, to me is this figure that almost nobody knows about because the new generation of bigfooters came in with TV and YouTube and whatnot, and Bob, mister Tipmos is just this figure that we're standing on his shoulders, whether we realize it or not. You know, I mean, I'm lucky, Boba and I are lucky enough to realize it. But so many people have no idea who he is. And part of that is because mister
Tipmos never really wrote much down. He recorded things on the back of footprint casts in his beautiful, flowing cursive script, but he never wrote a book. He didn't do very many interviews. He didn't really seek attention at all. So Bob is this kind of elusive, mysterious figure in the history of Bigfoot which we all need to tip our hats to. So anything you can share with us and our audience about Bob Timmas would be very much appreciated.
No, I think I sure can't give you some insight into him. I really admired that guy, o end. He was small and wiry, tougher than hell. Again, an next American who ended up working for the Canadian government, I think, on a wildlife officer capacity. And he spent a lot of times plying the inner the inner passage from here
to Alaska in a sailboat and in other things. And he got hurt when he was dragging his boat sailboat onto a beach with an Indian friend, and trying to get that boat off of the beach, he badly sprained or injured his back. And from then on until he died, he was in constant pain. And he tried to be civil when he was there to overcome him. But he
did his best, and he traveled. He's had some amazing things happened to him in northern California, and then we took him on his last trip to British Columbia.
Tell us about that a little bit.
Well, you know, he spent a lot of time in northern California, and I'll start with that one. And his story there where he got the footcast was he was by himself with a dog, and we met him there on one occasion, and that he had by himself traveled up what was then a dry river bed, and evening caught up with him, and rather than go back, he laid down in the river bed and covered himself with branches and sticks and things like that to keep a
little warm. And upstream from there, up dry river. From there, he heard these heavy footsteps and they came toward him, back back and forth away from him, and toward him on one side of the river, and he could hear that going on all night long. And anyway, he got up the next morning and he came out. But that's the kind of guy that he is. He nothing scared
the guy. He was absolutely amazing. And he spent a lot of time with John Green, since John Green only lived about a five or ten minute drive away from him, and so they became good companions over the years. So that's how I met him. He told me a lot of stories again that he hasn't told anybody else, I think. And then we took him on his last trip. A friend and I a guy who had a little, uh like a little fishing boat, and we drove up there and met him when we were towing the boat behind us,
and we took him up to Bella Coola. Now you have to go to Williams Lake from where he lives, which is maybe a four hour drive, and then from there about two hundred and seventy five miles of road into Bella Coola. And so we let him drive for a while. But I was never so happy in my life to get him up from the driver's seat. He was a white knuckle driver.
Well, he said, white knuckle driver. He had white knuckles that you guys did hanging.
On well, I mean he drove like a maniac. He was a fast driver to corners fast and we were very concerned about getting there alive. He seemed to have a real man. He was a real man, a mission guy, and so we drove in and then we took this boat. We spent quite close to a week. He took us back to for the white bear, their commody. You've heard about up there on Prince of I'm going to say Prince of Wales Island, where he actually saw the white bear.
He put up a trap for a big hunter in order to catch the bear, and he never caught it. But while we were up there, on two occasions, I saw the white bear, their commody, up on the interior of the island, and we were just fortunate at the time we were there to have them walking along one of the beaches, and so I saw the Kramodi there's so many people had been looking for had never seen. And we saw them a day later in another area right up along right up at this island up there
as well. So there's not much known about them, but they're called their Kramodi, and they're primarily we think of why white phase of the Black Bear.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages. Hey, Boba, whatever happened to your gone squatch and hat used to wear and finding Bigfoot?
Now?
I don't have that hat anymore. I gave it to Lauren Coleman for his museum, but I might be asking for it back because I'm getting a little nervous in summertime, getting too much so on the scalp up there now, and I'm getting bip up a mosquitoes. There's not a big lush crop to fend them off. It's as hell, Bobs.
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I don't know if you knew Bob Tipmas for long enough. I don't know when these two first cross paths. But do you have any idea the scope of the evidence that he lost in the boat fire.
No, I don't know of that, other than his stories about being on a boat up in northern Alaska, coming around a bend and literally seeing a Bigfoot on the shore, and I think that was the first time he'd seen one, and from then on, you know, he was hooked. So I don't know how much he lost from the fire.
I just know from talking to him the knowledge he has and some of the places he went in his search for the Bigfoot, including northern California and the Blue Mountains as you know, down in the south east Washington.
Yeah.
I have a number of photographs from Paul Freeman's photo album that that were shared with me from both Michael Freeman and the Freeman family, and also doctor Jeff Meldrim who was given a photo album by mister Freeman, and there's lots of pictures in there of Bob Titmas, which is really great.
Well, you know, and a little a side note is that his son just called me recently and I don't know if you knew i'd made a wax cast of a little bust of a bigfoot.
Yes, I'm very aware of that. I was talking to Michael about it. Actually, great work. By the way, I want to.
Hear some stories, like a secret, like something no one's heard that's a cool. Bob Tennis.
Well, one of the fascinating ones is you know, being a geographer, I collected a lot of maps of coastal British Columbia that they're equivalent of the Department of the Interior put out, and it was very much like our USGS maps, And I got tons of those impatient together and made marks on things that had happened up there. And one of them dealt with two things dealt with Bob talking to an Indian band and then going into
the interior not far from where they were. And it was a hot summer day and he'd hiked up to this He and his dog had gone up on this river and there was a big bluff and it was hot, and so we hitting his dog with behind this bluff, resting in the shade. Have you heard this one?
No?
Just coincidentally, he looks up and there were three bigfoot a good two cents away from him, and they were climbing this sheer cliff wall. His description was that the hair was kind of honey light and sort of golden and waving in the wind. And he watched them for fifteen or twenty minutes climb this sheer cliff wall. And his description is being so much larger than us and having a reach probably twice that of ours. They were able to negotiate an area that normally humanly we would
have had trouble doing or couldn't do it all. And how they would reach up with their hand and find some small proturbance, a rock or a piece of vegetation, grab onto it, lift their foot up, and then with were not not only even all the toes, but they would find another little ledge, and generally it was a three toes. If we could tell there'd be some extra toes, they would support their entire weight on those three toes and then continue to climb that way, little by little
until they reached the top of the cliff. And that was three of them that did that. And he and his dog witnessed that. And I've I've got that mort on my map.
I want to see that on map.
And the only other story I can think that we're down in northern California where he found with a bigfoot, you know, had thrown rocks out of the way, you know, looking for ground squirrels, and we know, you know, you all know about that sort of thing going on, and then putting out of stories of knocks, sometimes very intricate,
sometimes long, and having them answer him exactly. And you've heard of that too, how they're able to instantly play back what you've done, recorded what you said, or a rock cadence that they were able to pick up and repeat exactly just as you have. So evidently for quite some time he in their bigfoot carried on this little cross communication with rocks and gosh, there's there's other choice too. I'll have to think about him, but those are the ones that stand out that Bob. Bob told me well.
That that is one of the things that he should be credited with, is he's the first person to ever write about Sasquatches doing knocks of any sort. And it might maybe there's an earlier script somewhere, but the first inkling that any of us had was written up in the Bay Area Group newsletter where Bob Timmos wrote in and said, yeah, but for all the world, I'm tracking this thing in Bluff Creek and it sounds like it's hitting a log against another log. And he's the first
person ever record that in writing. Whether other people knew it, and certainly indigenous people probably knew about that sort of stuff, but he was the first person to ever write that down and record it for people, so he gets that credit that he kind of is the guy that should be credited with the individual at least, I should be credited with discovering about wood dogs.
And as you know, he worked, from what I know, most exclusively by himself, he and his dog, and so there wasn't anybody else there to witness what went on when Bob was out in the field. And as you know, he spent winter twice down in the Blue Mountains and you know d Duck Spring, and I've spent time up there and camped a couple of nights at d Duck
and other areas in the Blue Mountains. And as I mentioned to you, Jeff Meldrim, John mynsin Skate, Derek Randall and I spent several days and nights up in the Blue Mountains here several years ago. I was fortunate to be with them and we found a bed what had been a winter bed, probably built on top of the snow, and then they're sunk down of course because of weight. And I think I've got movies of that as well.
So I was fortunate at being able to go in with him and spend some time in the Blue Mountains.
I was just in the Blue Mountains last weekend. Actually, so yeah. The aggravating thing is that I got home and I went back to work because I, you know, I have that Bigfoot museum. And I took a siding report yesterday over the phone, and an elderly gentleman up in Washington somewhere wanted to share his stuff with it. Before you know, he left with it, basically, and I opened my our siding report book and there's a blank sighting report page with a phone number and a name
and whatever else. And I say, call this guy, and it was from the July thirty first, and it's so aggravating to me. So July thirty first, right, which is a few days before I left for the Blue Mountains. I think I was up there on the fourteenth or something like that. And I remember and so and I said, what's this about. He goes, Oh, this guy saw a Sasquatch over by Tollgate somewhere from like fifteen feet away. I oh, by Tollgate on the Highway twenty sixties. No, No,
somewhere in eastern Oregon. I thinking, dude, I was there like three days. I was there like a week ago, Like, why did you and no one followed up with the sky. No one did anything. Oh so it's like because we spend days driving around just looking for water where wildlife would be, but we of course didn't find any. And had I known where a sighting had occurred, like two weeks before, I would have focused my efforts there, but unfortunately I didn't come to my ears.
Well, as you know as well, there's hardly any water in that high country. As you know very well, up there springs isolated areas like that, And of course d Duck was unique because you know, it's been amplified, made into a little pond, and it makes sense that bigfoot like any other animal would come and visit that site and leave handprints and things like that. So d Duck Spring is a pretty a pretty neat area. And do
you know how it got the name d Duck? No Wes Summerlin, who I spent some time with, and he took us out in the field, and that's when the Forest Service alerted me to West and all the things
he had done and his little wife Peeweek. I spent several nights with him, but the US Forest Service, but have forest crew was up there of course, and they would do the work and then at the end of the week or a month, whenever it was a pay period, they would all meet at De Duck Spring and at that point they had to deduct a certain amount from their paycheck, and Atsfer got the term De Duck Spring. So there's a little history that I was fortunate to find out about.
That's great.
So it's also about I mean West Summerlin often gets overshadowed by Paul Freeman, when actually they were just partners in a lot of ways. There was no competition or anything between them. They're just partners and they both deserve so much credit for everything that went on in the Blue Mountains for that time period and even before eighty two when Paul saw one and started his Bigfoot journey. And tell us a little bit about West Summerlin if you would.
Well, West is a hard baked little half Indian guy, you know, spend some time in the rodeo and doing a lot of guiding in the Blue Mountains. And when we were up there, we found quite a few camps that are now abandoned, you know, among others. I'm not sure if he stayed in some of those, so I know he spent a lot of time guiding. He also had a pretty significant UFO experience, and maybe I don't know if everybody knows about that, but West would go up and take a string of horses with him, and
he had names for the bigfoot up there. And I'm trying to remember a lot of this detail, but he described him physically watching him and seeing them the size of the by steps on this particular individual. They but he got to know them as individuals up there. And on one occasion, his horses were up there and they were tied up for the night, and something came up and broke the halters. I mean they just pulled them apart, pulled the rope apart. So he told me that story.
He also told me, and those sounds pretty far fetched. During the hunting season, he heard some gunshots going on and a few moments later a bigfoot came running down this hill and had been shot in the chest and it was blood from the chest. It ran down to a stream and he could hear it down there, and evidently it was slapping water and mud on its chest to I guess, you know, overcome the pain in the chest and get some cold water on it. So That
was an amazing story that you ever heard. The Yeah that West told me he had some hair samples he found if you'd been in Wes's house. We spent the night there. What a character. He didn't have any walls in the room. He and pe we spent the night in a bed and it was just opened everybody. He must have had too many guests there. He said he felt fenced in because he loved the outdoors, and so he felt better when he was in a big open space.
And so you look into his room and here you see, you see the refrigerator, you see the stove, you see his living room, and then you see the bedroom and that's where and then you had a big foot there. And on that big foot that he had made a poster. He had various things in there, and one of them was a hair sample which he gave to me. He found that up on the Tiger Mountain road. You knew that road, Yeah, yeah, it's a windy road. I've spent time up there. Of course, you can reach the Duck
Spring by going up Tiger Mountain. And there's a spot up there, as you're maybe more than halfway for there's a little pass in there and of course it would be on the left hand side, and you can walk into this little pass, climb this little ten foot precipice and walk into this pass. At the time, I think Cramps had gone up there and they'd gone in there.
And I found it where they had made casts bigfoot tracks along this little stream area, and it went on for a good half a mile, and I could see tree breaks eight or nine feet up off the office trail, and then the remnants of the cast.
What did West teach you about the tree breaks and tree structures.
Well, other than the fact they thought they were territorial markers, the fact the thing to look for, of course, would be where they twisted. It doesn't mean bigfootoul always twist them. But one of the characteristics, as you know over the years, is despite the size, would be the height off the ground. You know, they can reach up to ten feet or more.
And so if this is at the nine foot level and you find them consistently, and they're supposed to point in the direction of travel often and that they'll be twisted around and around several times. That was what West told me. And that's where he found these hair samples, was up in the crotch of one of these twists, and he gave it to me and I had it analyzed by the Skeptical Inquirer. They didn't pay me, but they have a little article on me, you know, happy
showing a footprint, you know, the typical thing. And they sent it back to me with a lab analysis and it came back one as unknown, but also came back as being very human and believe it or not, as being subject to quite a bit of weathering.
Well, that's interesting. This must have been in like the late nineteen eighties, if I had to guess, is that correct?
Ah, yeah, that sounds right, of course. The telling thing there was the idea of in being weathered.
When you were working in the Blues and you were, you know, hanging out with Wes and those people and the Blue Mountain Gang. Did you ever spend any time with Bill Lowry? Because I find him to be like another Bob Tipmas figure that doesn't really get the credit he deserves because he was so flying under the radar at the time. So did you ever have a chance to meet with mister Lowry?
Well? I did, and as a back to West or second, yeah, he did. Fill eclipsed by Paul. I mean we talked about this that you know, West Reserved for some time was kind of known locally, you know as a Bigfoot go to person. Paul comes in and then they started having a public get togethers in the mall. Maybe you knew about that. I did.
Yeah. I know dar Addington very well and she's told me a lot about those stories.
Yeah.
Yeah, I felt badly for Wes because I think it was kind of sidelined, you know, even kind of a different charactery. It was very colorful, but I think he felt a bit outclassed by, you know, by Paul, and I think he didn't have as much of a chance to interact with the public as he would have liked to if Paul hadn't been there.
Yeah.
Again, of course Paul got those two pieces of footage of Sasquatches as well, and you know, visual components go so far with the public nowadays, it seems.
So Yeah, they're basically basic entertainment. Of course, Paul did very well with that. As far as Lowry goes, I never met him. I just and I respected him because, as I remember, he was a warden or a law enforcement officer as well.
He's like some biologists. I guess he's either a warden or some official in the Wildlife department in Washington there.
And so the things he's mentioned to me was I talked to him on the phone, was something about actually seeing one, and he was flabbergacid at the sheer size of him. He just said, you would not believe how big these are, he said, I never would have imagined that they would have been a huge when I saw them. He was blown away by their sheer size.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages. So we've spoken a lot about a lot of a lot of the historical thing or some of them, not even a lot actually just barely the tip of the iceberg. About the historical figures and things that you've been involved in, but
you are continuing your research to this day. Tell us about some of the more interesting things that you've been able to encounter or hear or see, like have you ever seen a sasquat, for example, like in the last thirty years or so, Because my first exposure to you was at that Bellingham conference back in what was that two thousand and four or five or something like that, and I know that you just had gotten those amazing vocalizations that I still think stand is some of the
best vocalizations out there at the time, and that's what you spoke about there. But certainly you've seen so much, So tell us about some of the highlights of the last few decades if you good.
Yeah, sure, well, all A said, I've never seen one, and I don't know if that's what I call the icing on the cake. It'd be nice to say I did. That doesn't improve a lot to me any bike. Can you know, you may see even maybe you don't see one stop and at night, people have fleeting glimpses of what they think they see, and then as you know,
they'll fantasize about it. Sometimes they won't talk about it for months or years because it's out of the comfort zone, and so by that time maybe they don't remember as much. There's no doubt there's been tons of sidings. We know that. But all the stuff I've seen from Bigfoot, Poopy the tracks, as you know, I mentioned to its twisted vegetation, to rock structures and stick structures, all the calls the one coming up to the tent here a couple of weeks ago.
There's absolutely no doubt about their bigfoot existing. And you know, I hope they never catch it. So if I see one, I'll be happy. If I don't, I'll probably be just as happy. I've come within twenty feet of seeing one,
just because I'm at bumping. Paul and I are were going one direction and a guy came out from Texas Camp and it was at a place for bigfoot crosses and maybe you know of that spot bumping up along the main road just a couple hundred feet what would that be south of Texas Camp, California camp up there, and there's actually a little place in the woods you can look down and see a tunnel and evidently that's
where the bigfoot crosses. And that particular evening, as we were palling beyond it, this fellow came around the corner out of the camp and later told us, well, a bigfoot just crossed behind you, and as you know, what they'll do, they'll wait until people go beyond them, and he caught him by surprise when he walked out and he saw the bigfoot. So yeah, I've been close to it. I've never seen him, but the tracks i've found some of the poop that I think was unusual I've found.
Did you read that, Scott almlas Little Well wait, wait.
Wait before you do what Scott, I don't know anything about this. What are you what are you talking about?
Well, I've found several over the over the years, you know, up and remoteras where I found one pile. It was eighteen inches in diameter and probably at least a foot high up in the middle of nowhere. Bears, you know, I can have that pattern of eating somewhere, coming back and pooping and as you know it pickting orchards. I'll go over and guzzle down stuff, hardly eating it. They'll come back and all of a sudden they got to take a crap and it's off and with her pattern,
they'll go back to the same area. I've got one where there's eight piles of poops around this tree and it was clearly a bear that did it. Some of them are huge, but this one is in the middle of forest, there's nobody around, and it clearly looked like a single deposit, not multiple deposits, and it was literally the size of a huge dinner plate and eighteen inches that I'm guessing and probably a foot high. So we found that back in the middle of nowhere.
How much did you pack out if you've had, like, what'd you put it in?
I'll be honest, at that point, I didn't pack any of it out, But the second time I've got it in my freezer. I'm sure by now it's long from freezer Burn, but there's very remote lake off of the Pacific Crest Trail. For Paul and I go, it's about a seven and a half mile hike in and the last of east hour and a half was completely off the trail. One hundred came running out of their years ago.
We said he couldn't take it anymore. And we have been back in there three times, and I've got two recording sessions where where they come into camp at least twelve times in one night. And it just showed up on my tape recorder and you can hear them coming in, you can hear them slap my tent, and you can hear them leave. That goes on for twelve times at least in one night. I'm sure they're juveniles, probably not grown ups, for probably are watching them out of the forest.
Probably juveniles just having fun. I didn't listen to that tape for two years, thinking nothing happened. So there's a lesson to be learned there. When I listened to it, I was just blown away. Within twenty minutes, I was
hitting the snack. As you know, as soon as they hear deep sleeping, they'll come in, not before that time often, And so you could spend a week up there and think it was more of a wrong time in the world, not knowing you had been entertained up there maybe several nights in a row, and kind of unsatisfying, but very revealing about bigfoot behavior. Oh about the poopy well up at this lake. I was up higher coming back to
the lake, and I found this pile of scat. Now it wasn't huge, but it was probably maybe a foot long. It was gray, kind of a gelatinous quite gray material, looked tery like vegetation. I have no idea what it was composed of. I didn't find any animal matter in it. It looked like tutsie rolls. They had been broken, and they were in a perfect line, like it was stacked towardward. They all were a straight line, none of them overlapped each other. They were stacked like putty rolls, and they
all were stacked evenly. I've never seen that. I brought it home, talked to several bear experts. We talked about wolf, we talked about bear. Oh, we knew it wasn't elk. They they had no answer for what I'd found. So I don't know what it is. I found the same thing up at this particular lake I mentioned Eastern Monroe. I found these. I get the same kind of a bunch of poope on the road in two places. So I got it here by this time. I don't know who could analyze it, but so I still got that.
Well, you know about the DNA study with Darby or cut through the North Carolina University, Right, it's free. All you have to do is fill out a thing online and send it to them and they will get back to you guaranteed. This is the first university sponsored one ever and they guarantee you will get the results back. And with whatever it is. They're not looking for bigfoot stuff, even though they kind of are. We had Darby on
as I yest a few weeks ago. They're looking at unknown samples in an effort to identify what they are, you.
Know, and that's even better, that's the perfect setup. You don't want someone who's got a Bigfoot bias, as you well know. And some of the most fascinating books I've read had nothing to do with their interest in Bigfoot, but just by the way things that happened to them. So I would trust those people more than somebody with a preconceived notion of what they're getting. And I'll talk to Paul because we've got quite a few hair samples.
I've got the scat sample, and I would love to send it to them.
It's free.
It's absolutely free and university sponsored. And I encourage anybody, especially you, because who have a backlog of samples, who has a backloag to send stuff to them because they're rare to go and they're waiting for samples to work on.
Well you you just send me the information. I'll be happy to We will do that now. The other sideline I have one thing lead to another. But speaking of museums in general, that includes museums in India, museums here in other places, who are sent remains of primates. In some cases up in India, as you know, they sent the remains of what clearly had been a yetty to a museum there and they never heard anything again. Now I'm telling people this, you can go up and beat
the woods forever. Go look in the dusty halls of the museum, go to the basement of they' lechi in. I think we're going to find a wealth of evidence on what we're looking for. In these museums. They get things that they are unclassified. They do know what they are, they may know what they are, and they simply leave them down there because they don't have a rational explanation for them. And if they'll let you in, I think you could get a wealth of information that would help us a lot.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages. So, John, you've brought a number of audio recordings to the podcast here to share with our listeners.
Yeah, I've been in contact with your partner Paul. Paul Grace has been a guest on our show before, and he was telling me he was so excited about these recordings you got that you just got like a couple of weeks ago from Wanacchi National Forest. Can you tell us about that? We'll play that.
Well, we went to this spot that had a long history of stuff going on. We camped out within twenty feet of a road that goes through there. We were there for a day and a half and only two cars drove by an entire time, showing you how remote it is or how unused it is. We got cozy in our sleeping bags, and the next thing we know, we hear this big, huge ruckus just outside of our tent. Paul and I wake up and sleepily say to each other, Oh, man, did you hear that? Oh yeah, what do you suppose
it was? Oh blah blah blah blah blah. We went back to bed. We woke up knowing nothing else but that. I took my tape recorder home and gee whiz I started playing it and within about half an hour before all that took place, you can hear this boom boom boom boom boom boom boom, boom, boom boom right up to our tent. Right up to our tent. We have a lot of rocks and pine cones or something being thrown at our tent during the time we were there.
You can hear them clunk plunk hitting our tent. During and after the big stomping goes on, and then you can hear a big moving noise outside of the tent, and that's when we woke up, and so that would be the one when they're coming into camp. So that
was the first thing that happened. And then sometime during the night and now Paul tells me he has two more of those long calls or they call in a distance that David Ellis brought up and amplified and it's been looped three times, and so I guess that's the next one you'll have.
Okay, so these are these will be three the same call loop three different times by Dave Ellis, like he's the guy who analyzed it and made it loop. But this was recorded the same night as the previous recording we just heard.
Yeah, yeah, right.
Okay, very good. Let's take a listen. Yeah, no question about that one.
Then. Yeah, now I think it's very good and we might have some more to add to that. David Als told me it's one of the more interesting recordings he has because he said there's so much going on. He thinks there's a language it's being spoken in there. We
have the growls. He thinks at one point it's imitating my snoring sounds that I heard, and they were much deeper and lower, So they're imitating me while I'm snoring, and then when I'm turning back and forth having a rough night of it, that they're taking advantage of that and making a lot of noise in the background. So he's got a ton of things going on during that particular evening when and Paul and I are concerned, by the way about going back up there because a lady disappeared.
I guess we talked about that. No, Yeah, this is a scary part about. There was a lady from the University of Washington, an older lady. Gosh, she probably my age makes her ancient, right, So she's up there, and this has been several years ago when she parked right across from where we spent the night, and she was up I think in the fall picking mushrooms, and she knew there. If she'd been up there, she wasn't a
stranger to the outdoors. She disappeared without a trace and they never found her, and Paul was involved in the manhunt for her. The dogs traced her to a certain area a short distance away and they lost it and nothing was found there. Was no indications of a struggle, no blood, no claw marks, nothing. She just simply vanished. And so when we hear those aggressive sounds come up to our car, up to our tent, we're just kind of wondering kind of what we're doing there, you know.
Yeah, Paul told me. He he says he's there twenty years by himself, like no words, he said, now he will not go there alone anymore.
Yeah, No, we both agreed that we're and I fact, i'd recommend everybody, of course, never go by yourself. I used to go a lot by myself when I was ignorant. Getting older now and I've had a good life. If it ends, and you know, I had a lot happen, but I don't want it to end that way. And we know there's been things are going on in the peninsula. I've got stories about another one, as you know, about up at the border of Canada, a horrible thing that happened.
Up there with the Sasquatch.
Yeah outliers.
Well yeah, yeah, why don't we save that for the members section because I'd like to hear about those stories. Because I'm advocate. I'm an advocate, and I try to say this as much as possible, that these are not your forest friends. These are not you know, necessarily benign beings that are you know, looking out for the good of humanity from you know, the overseer in the sky, you know, as they're often painted by various people in the Bigfoot community. These are wild animals and perhaps and
I don't think they're out to get us. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that they are they're evil monsters and devils trying to get it. They are potentially very dangerous. They are wild animals that are very human like in a lot of ways, which might make them even more dangerous in some ways. I don't think they're out to get us, And as evidence, I always say, look around. If they were out to get us, there'd
be very few of us left. But I do think there are probably some bad apples out there and they should be treated with the respect that you would give something like say a brown bear, something like that.
And I would certainly agree. And the stories I have, which are brief, you know me, I don't elaborate a lot, but the two I know about repeating the public is hard for me because I don't want people to think every time they go out, they're going to disappear. And yet when you hear these stories, if I know the area, which I do know, I wouldn't go there. Period.
You always bring a shark cage.
Yeah right, you're in it.
Not them.
You know exactly exactly.
Who you protected? You well, number one, I guess. Well. The other thing is we have to recognize we know nothing about the calls we put out, at least mostly what are we saying to them. Number two is we may be very close to their heartland. They're going to be stressed out if we get too close to them. We know none of these things, and we can put ourselves right in harms way migration routes and things like
that and not even know it. And so there's so much we don't know we could put ourselves in harm's way.
Well, you know, well, let's let's perhaps maybe end this session and go on to the member session and we can hear about those stories and kind of compare notes with some of the other things that we've heard about sasquatches being less than friendly. All right, well, John, thank you so much for coming on and spending the last hour with us. We're going to continue this conversation in our members section in just a few minutes, and everybody
can listen to that on Thursday. If you're a member, if you want to become a member, he can go to Big, Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com and hit the membership button and I'll tell you all about it. But in the meantime, thank you very much John for being on the podcast with us. We really do appreciate you sharing some of your experiences with us.
Thank you very much, Bobo, Cliff and Matt.
It was a long time getting on here, but it was worth it. I mean, it's been a couple of years I've been trying to get you going, so yeah, thanks for showing up.
John, I know, no, no, thank you so much for having me, Bobo. This has been nice training for me.
All right. Well, cool, folks. That's John Andrews from Washington State. He's got some ongoing stuff. Now we're gonna hear more from him and Paul. They got some stuff they're working on. We'll be bringing them back on probably the next couple of months. But until then, you guys know what to do out there. Y'all. Keep it squatchy.
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and be Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond.