Big Food and Beyond.
With Cliff and Bubo.
These guys are your favorites, so like to subscribe and read it. I'm star and meon Grates on us today listening watching limb always keep its watching.
And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay. Greetings everyone, This is Matt Pruitt. Just wanted to hop on and give you a quick introduction to the episode that you're about to hear. You know, over the years that we've been doing these Q and A episodes, we've gotten a lot of submissions from people asking for book recommendations, you know, required reading, essential reading, things of that nature.
And so in October of twenty twenty three, Cliff, Bobo and myself recorded in an episode for our members only podcast, Beyond, Bigfoot and Beyond, dedicated to some of our favorite books
about the Sasquatch and other really to topics. When I was compiling the questions for the January twenty twenty five Q and A episode, we had quite a few more requests for book recommendations, so I thought it'd be a good idea to take the members only episode that we recorded back in October twenty three and release that here on the main feed, So you're going to hear a member's only episode being released here on our main podcast
feed for the first time. And we also compiled a list of all the books that are mentioned in this episode. So if you click the link in the show notes to our Patreon to the membership section, you'll see that post available there if you want to see all the books listed in one place, so you don't have to write them down if you're driving or traveling or anything of that nature. So hope you enjoyed this episode that we originally recorded for our members, and hope you find
the recommendations useful. So we're thinking that maybe we could just wrap about some of our favorite Sasquatch related books because we're still getting so many questions about what books would we recommend to people. Yeah, remember we talked about like the Klobo's Book Club, which we will do deep dives in the future on specific books, but maybe for now we just talk about our top three or top five recommendations that you would offer to people those sorts of things.
Okay, cool, Well, what would you recommend We've already started recording.
Oh, okay, there's a wide range people people that have like a extensive bigfoot libraries of their own personal books. And then there's people that just kind of are fans of the show that don't really have any So I guess who we start with.
That well, I'd say, just yeah, just choose one, I think. And because you know, there's been people, there are people who have been into this thing for a while, and maybe they haven't read the book you're mentioning because they a different book got them going.
You know, yeah, I think, you know, I think, well, I mean, if you're a reader, I mean, if you should read one book, i'd say prove it the phenomenal Sasquash if you want to really kind of go through it. And I enjoyed the historical I love the historical parts of it. And I think if you start with Sanderson, you know, back in sixty one, nineteen sixty one, I think that's a great place to start.
It is. But I don't like his writing style. You don't, no, no, I don't like it. It's a little archaic and weird to me.
I kind of like that about it.
I like the book, don't get me wrong. It has a lot of great information in it, but that's not it doesn't flow easily from the page to my brain.
I would agree with that. And a lot of the language is sort of archaic because you know, we were still in like the figurative dark ages of understanding of apes and hominoid evolution, and a lot of the fossils that are relevant hadn't even been found yet, and so there's a lot of things that are a bit outdated in terms of the unfolding discovery of the history of pre human ancestors and human relatives. But yeah, I would that is one of my top five for sure.
But it gives you an idea like what people were like when you read the next books, like this is what they're like, this is the first thing they went off of. You know, it kind of just gives you. It lets you into the mindset of the people of the time and when you factor and how would they do about what you just the things you just mentioned, how little was done in Garston nowadays, Like how the thought process that came to their conclusions and stuff is I think pretty fascinating.
Oh, I would agree with that. I think it's good to visit after maybe, I mean, to me, I would always recommend starting with greens Apes among Us, that would be the first ultimate first book.
See, I don't even know if I would agree with that. Well, you were wrong, Cliff, Well, I could very well be wrong. But here perfect here, But here's my complaint about it. I love the first half or more of it, but by the time you're getting two thirds of the way through, it comes down. Apes among Us turns into the thing on February ninth, nineteen seventy four, so and so and wherever Kentucky and saw one run across the road. Bubba, it was brown. And then the next paragraph is a
different rattling of statistics. You know, it kind of runs. At some point, it seems to me that Apes among Us and I love the book, it's a great book. I'm not bashing it. But if I have a complaint about it, which I kind of do, it turns into a rattling of this happened, this happened, this happen, and it kind of loses the narrative thread that I felt that really held it together for the first part of the book. Yeah yeah, I mean, am I raw? I mean,
like you agree with But what about you, Matt. I know that you're that's a that's your number one go to book. Am I off base on that? Or what are your opinion? What's your opinion on that?
I think he does a really good job. First of all, he's such a reliable narrator, and he has a much more accessible writing style than most because he was an Ivy League educated journalist and so he was a great writer, and he had sort of an editorial mind as a writer, which is probably extremely helpful, you know, for writing a
book as big as that is. I like the way it's broken out, you know, it does become sort of a presentation of various cases, especially because essentially you have those beginning portions where he's like introducing the subject, talking about the historical record, and then his sort of entry through the centennial Sasquatch, Hunt, Bluff Creek, the classics Patterson. But then it does sort of move into these regional
breakouts of reports that have occurred. So there's you know, like the Mississippi water Web, Wolli Booger is, the Canadian scene, Eastern action. But once he gets through that, then it shifts back into like, all right, there's a chapter about footprints, where are the bones, screams in the night, you know, vocals.
Yeah, the statistical analysis that stuff is cool. But in the middle there, I think it gets trapped in this quagmire. You know it does.
But I think for a lot of people who are new ish to the subject, it's really enlightening for them to see the number of people across North America that were reporting these things even in the mid twentieth century and all the things that we think of now, because
it's really easy to get stuck in modern times. And I did this with Sanderson's book too, where things would sort of emerge out of reports that seemed new to me, and then I would revisit Sanderson and go, oh, he picked up on that same pattern in sixty one, where you see, oh Green picked up on this same pattern
in the late sixties or early seventies. And so that's sort of a reinforcing thing to think that the some of the things that feel like newer discoveries, like twenty first century discoveries, were actually present even back then, which strengthens the case for the reality of the subject right right now.
If I had to modify this at all, see, I wouldn't go to apes among us first, I would go to the best of Sasquatch Bigfoot, which of course is a compilation of John's three other books that those smaller pamphlet books. I find those to be more readable and digestible.
And the fact that they were all put together into one book by Hancock House Press, The Best of Sasquatch Bigfoot, I think that would be my go to John Green book for the Newbiet because that covers a lot of the historic stuff, the foundational things in Bluff Creek and British Columbia, the stuff the early things that John everybody else looked into. But and of course Apes among Us
is the next step after that. See, I would have gone to Best of Sasquatch Bigfoot first for that reason, because at that point Apes among Us build upon best of you know these other books. You know, you're the Sasquatch, and then the other ones that are escaping me right now you know what they are.
No, that's a great point.
See.
I started. The first book I read was Crets's book, and so it was very because I hadn't studied any like evolutionary biology or anthropology at that point, and so it was very difficult because I just that was like first contact with a lot of those terms, and I still love that book, and I revisited a lot, and so Green's was more like, I'm following a reliable narrator who's walking me through this whole world that is the
Sasquatch subject. And so yeah, I do think that's a great point though, that the best of Bigfoot Sasquatch would be a great one. Another great one is Chris Murphy's Either Meet the Sasquatch or the second edition Know the Sasquatch, because there's just so much. There's a lot of information there, but you will never find a better collection of images.
Yeah, it's the perfect coffee table book on sasquatch. Honestly beautiful, glossy book. The pictures are all in color, or at least the ones that were taken in color originally are all in color, because there's certainly black and white photographs in there. And it's big, it's glossy, it's very very visual. There's a lot of but despite the fact that it's very visual pact full of pictures, there's a lot of
really great informational texts in there as well. Yeah, And they have the text and the information combined with the photographs. It's a really powerful thing. It's just fantastic and and a lot of people may not remember, but there it was originally published I think with the like a leather bound cover or something like that. Really yeah, and it was also in a hardback I don't know if you
guys have the hardback version or not. I have an autographed hard cover by and you know John Green and Steinberg and Murphy, they all autographed that one that was the original one. But I couldn't have. I believe that there was a leather bound edition as well.
Oh I did have that. I think I still have it.
You should, I hope. So it's probably worth quite a bit.
I think I paid one hundred and fifty for it.
You know, you have a hell of a book collection, Boves, you really do. Steven Stroyford, who the owner of the establishment that was once so it's called big Foot Books, said you were his best customer there for a long time.
Yeah. I spent four grand in there in one year.
Geez geez, Well what was some of the walkaways you got?
Man?
What would would you walk away with?
Just like first edition stuff like rare stuff.
Yeah, and this all goes in You're safe, right, Yeah?
I had more, but I gave him I gave him away his presence.
Yeah, you're kind of like that. You're generous to a fault if I don't say so myself. Yeah, but you mentioned Krantz's book. That Krantz's book was really influential upon me. It wasn't the first big Foot book I ran across. I think one of John Green's, one of the paperback ones. I don't remember which one on the Track of the Sasquatch or You're the Track Sasquatch or something like that.
Those may have been amongst the first, because I remember looking through the college library that I often mentioned is what kind of got me into this, And I think I ran across thows and oh this is kind of interesting and kind of started leafing through it, you know, or the Sasquatch file. That's the last one I finally came to me. It was kind of like looking at those and oh, this is interesting, and then I ran across it was either Mysterious Monsters on Trial or no, no,
is that right? Mysterious Monsters on Trial? That's right, like monster man like okay, the other yeah, another m word man like Monsters on Trial? Or was it there was one called Sasquatch and that's always called at a yellow cover. I think A Mrcotic was his name. He was one of the It was a compilation of journal articles written by scientists. Yeah, and Krantz was a co editor on one of those, I think.
Yeah, he submitted some of those papers. So yeah, there's the big compendiums. Yeah, or the scientists look at the sasquatch one and two man like monsters on trial and then the sasquatch and other hominidsmids.
Yeah, that was my baptism into the science of bigfoot. I think I might have like perused through some of the sighting reports in the John Green book, But when I started reading those cover to cover multiple times, that really struck me. That really really struck me, as like, holy crap, these things are real. You're kidding me.
Yeah.
I revisit those a lot, and you know, I reference those in writing the book too. And I'm the Krantz book too. I love It just wasn't the best first contact for a kid from North Georgia, you know what I mean.
I suppose you really read down there.
Well, it was sort of like a calling to Okay, well I need to learn these things. And I rose to the challenge of trying to be more equip more well equipped to make sense of everything. So those sorts of like, that's why I really enjoyed challenging reads or technical reads, because it's an opportunity to learn. But in terms of yeah, I think I came to it expecting a different thing that I eventually found in apes among us I had.
I still have my weather beaten copy of the Krantz Book. I would take that to Bluff Creek every time I went, starting in nineteen ninety three or four whenever that I think was four, and when I started going, Yeah, it was nineteen ninety four when I started going to Bluff Creek. Yeah, and I just beat the crap.
Out of that book.
It's like missing a cover, I think maybe the title, page two. Just that poor book has been all over the place with me. I used to take it and read it on the trips, read it at night, read it. And I probably have read that book, The Krantz Book, probably no less than thirty times, wow, and probably much closer to fifty because I would just plow through that thing once or twice a year. You know, I've been
doing this for twenty nine years now. So like assuming that in the early days, if I'd read that book three or four times in a year, or in certain chapters more than others, by the way, maybe I wouldn't do it cover to cover. I've been through that an awful lot, an awful lot. It's very very influential upon me. It has as flaws, of course, but it was very very influential upon me realizing that, like, oh, yeah, you can do stuff. Because I've always been interested in amateur science.
I'm an amateur astronomer. I've got a pretty good telescope, for example, and I love that. I'm certainly an amateur marine biologist, which is hence my love of fishing in general. And I saw that there was a niche, there was a place for amateurs here to contribute, because frankly, the academics aren't carrying their weight. They aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing, which is following their curiosity to the extent they find answers. Therefore it's up to us.
And when I started reading about the science that was being done, it's, oh, my gosh, what an opportunity here, What an opportunity to possibly contribute just a little tiny bit for the good of a subject that is larger than me.
Oh.
Absolutely, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. But were you starting to notice a thinning hair? Who me, maybe a little a little hair left or a little thinning hair both, Well, I've got good news for you. Bobo Hymn's offer access to prescription treatments for regrowing hair and as little as three to six months, so you can see a fuller head of hair like Bobo in the old days by fall.
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Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral monoxidyl and finasteride. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions and important safety information. And you know, I love both of Bennernaugle's books. The first one's almost impossible to find now, you know. I got a copy many years ago and always try to find a second one. But it's tricky because when they do pop up, they go
for so much money. But his second book, The Discovery of the Sasquatch, is probably my personal favorite book ever written on the subject.
It's almost like a survey of the philosophy of science itself.
In a lot of ways, it's very conceptual, very philosophical, but he does present a lot of factual information to be derived from reports and from the physical evidence, and so it's sort of the blending of both of those sort of worlds of the hard evidence, let's say, combined with the anecdotal evidence and ey witness testimony, but various philosophies of science. And he makes just such a great case about how could these things be real and yet unrecognized?
And I think that book's an incredible contribution. I wish they would put it in a kindle format so more people could access it. Leela Hodgschik's Ford is an excellent essay too. I mean that Ford alone is awesome, you know. I wish that would get digitized and put on the internet as a standalone document for people to read. But his first book's amazing too, which is The Sasquatch North
America's Grade eight. But it's very, very difficult to find, but readers could get the Discovery of the Sasquatch from Amazon still, but hopefully they'll put those in digital format. The problem with a lot of the Sasquatch ClassX. Now, those two Bender Nooggles books were published through a company called Beachcomber, so I don't know what their process is.
Like, I think that was the Bendernaggles thing. I think they kind of self published it.
Yeah, I said him and his wife.
Because Hancock House, what they've done for most of their titles is to scan and upload the books as PDF images. So usually if you're in an ebook format, it's a text file so you can search within it, which is amazing, or you can highlight notes and export those or just
go to your highlighted sections. But literally, if you get Apes among Us or Krantz's book on Kindle or ebook format, there are image files of the pages, so they're very you can't highlight notes, you can't they're not searchable, which is a little frustrating because that's part of the benefit of reading the e book versions. So maybe they'll do
something about that at some point in the future. But I would definitely if I had to pick one for me that was a personal favorite, it would without it out be the just Iver read the Sasquatch.
Well, you know, if we're talking about Bender Nogul and Krantz, we have to talk about Meldrum's book.
Absolutely.
Yeah, Meldrum's book is just fantastic. It's the number one book I recommend to people. I mean, I'm clearly a Krantz site, you know, like if you're if you're I always I think I might may have said this before, but if you're looking at the four horsemen, I think most people kind of fall in line behind one of them. And I definitely find fall in line behind Krantz, and Meldrum is the next in line in that same line.
Indeed, I'm a Greenian.
Yeah.
In fact, the second edition, the second edition of Krantz's book acknowledges doctor Beldrium because in the first edition, Jeff wasn't on the scene yet. He wrote that in probably
ninety one or ninety two. I think he published in ninety one or ninety two, so he's writing it in the late eighties, early nineties, and the second edition he there's a little addendum there and he mentions Jeff is on the scene now and a trained an antimist looking at these things, and he acknowledges that doctor Meldrum's recognition of the mid tarsal break. And of course, if you
he read Krantz's book. If you go back and read those early chapters on footprints in Krantz's book, he does acknowledge it as well, but he doesn't come to the name of it. He doesn't do the mid tarsl joints, he doesn't talk about pressure ridges and all that stuff. He does talk about. I think the words are something like, Again, I don't have the book in front of me, but the word is something like considerable flexibility in the mid part of the foot I believe is what he said,
something to that effect. So he does recognize it, and he does give Krantz gave himself on a little pat on his back in that little chapter where he talks about chef in his work. But yeah, Meldrum's book built upon what Krantz had done and expanded upon it. And for what it's worth, rumor is Jeff's writing another book that will be released around the same time as Doug Hizek's Legend meets Science documentary happened. Yeah, well, if it's
out there, good. I mean, I knew it was happening, but I didn't know if it was officially mentioned or not yet. Yes, yeah, so I'm looking on that looking forward to that, because doctor Meldrim will certainly build upon his own work, because his book is I mean, it's not dated to the point of being useless, but it was a published in two thousand and six or two thousand and eight.
Six.
Yeah, that's you know, it's twenty twenty three right now. That's kind of a long time ago, and so much has happened, and there have been so many advances in science and various disciplines that come to bear on this topic. So I'm very much looking forward to doctor Meldrim's next book.
Yeah, those would be my five required reading to me. If you read these five books, you would have a very thorough education. The ones we talked about Sanderson Green's Apes, among us, Krantz, Meldrim and Bitner novels, Discovery of the Sasquatch. And then there's other books I love, you know, those sort of narrative journeys that aren't necessarily a deep dive into the subject, but are sort of again, sort of following a narrator who's seeing the subject in a broad
view through their own particular lens. We already talked about. I absolutely loved John Zada's book In the Valleys, of the Noble Beyond. And I know we all loved Robert Piles where Bigfoot Walks. That's another great one in that category.
Did you see the movie?
I still haven't watched the movie because we did that interview with him and hearing about you know, he wasn't lamenting, but hearing the differences between the way he was represented in the film and the way they toured with the time timeline of his life sort of turned me off a little bit.
Dude, he ruined Bob Pile in that movie. He'd been able to look the biggest kop.
See, that's what I'm worried. Didn't make him look like a like totally inapt in the outdoor.
Yeah, total, totally totally clueless. It's just a door.
Yeah.
So yeah, and Bob is anything but man, he did that solo trip across Skippard Pinshow you don't do a solo trip if you're some loser in the woods.
Yeah.
Yeah, So listeners, if you haven't listened to the Bob Pile episode that we did around the time. We also did an interview with the director of that film. But you know, I do enjoy those books too, because they're just very well written so it's not necessarily going to give you an education on the Sasquatch, but they're very enjoyable reads, especially John's Ages book. Like, I just really thought that was a beautiful book, you.
Know, I think a valuable mention. I don't think it's one of in my top five or anything, but definite worthy of mention, especially for people our age, you know,
you know, but was my age. And of course you two met, you're a little younger than us, but still legend of Boggie Creek has affected all of us in various ways, right, I mean, that was some of my earliest memories of the bigfoot thing, and it's been just a profound effect upon my life in so many ways, to the point where when I met Keith Crabtree, the guy in the suit, like like like I teared up, like I was so moved by meeting the dude in the suit.
You know, for that got thrown through the door.
We oh yeah, that guy. I also teered up. Then I got his autograph, like I got both all these they're up in the museum. They mean so much to me. So Lyle Blackburn's Abista Bogie Creek has to be.
Oh yeah, yeah, that's a great one.
It's because it resonated so strongly with my youth, you know, in this that sort of way.
And you know, a little book I love is The Yaoi.
That is one of my favorite mystery eight books of all time, the two thousand and six Yawoi. I'm still reading the Yaoi File.
You know.
It is just sort of a not to denigrate it, but it is just a compendium of reports, whereas the original book that they wrote, The Yaoi in two thousand and six. It's just that is absolutely one of my favorite books on the subject of mystery as historically speaking.
One of the most amazing collections of information that I've seen that suffers from and I don't know if this person listens, but if you listen, I'm sorry, but suffers from I think one of the worst titles was there was a book that was released a few years ago called Far Out Shaggy Funky Monsters.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that guy Daniel Green, Green, Yeah yeah, Daniel Green.
There you go, man. There's so much incredible information and it's a compendium of personal correspondence, is print media, article happenings, newsletters, bulletins, all just a tremendous amount of information from the end of nineteen sixty nine until the very beginning of nineteen eighty, so it really covers the nineteen seventies, and so the title is sort of a nod to terminology of pop culture in the seventies. But I think a lot of people have missed that book because the title is so goofy.
Sorry Daniel if you're listening.
Because no great book. Great book.
Absolutely, I learned so many things that I wasn't previously aware of.
Yeah, because the seventies, the sixties and seventies are like kind of the heyday of the Bigfoot thing, when it first became public knowledge that these things may be out there. It's when, certainly when I was growing up throughout the nineteen seventies, I saw the various schlockumentaries and loved them all. And that book encapsulates the feel, which is what I
think he was trying to do with the title. Of course, you know, but to see the primary sources in a way of the newspaper articles reporting the things that we would later read about another book. I think that is a really, really great book and certainly one that I love thumbing through. It's not a cover to cover short of book. It's one that you just pick up and like, oh, I remember that. That was cool.
And there's a lot of great regional books too. I mean, I have to mention my dear friend Mike May's book Valley of the Apes, which is about the nawac's work in Area X. It's a great book. I loved reading that. You know, I know a lot of those people and I've been there many times, but Mike put it into a great narrative. And I also really love I know you do too, Raincoast Sasquatch. That's a great book.
Yeah, that's one of the better ones. I think it really opened my eyes to the ability of these things to swim. For example, that's why I first heard of Reeker reports of these things swimming. I think there's been a few things here and there. Of course, you know, even the Bossburg creature went in and out of Lake Roosevelt, which is of course the Columbia River, but this just dammed up at that point.
Yeah, I love that. That book is one of my that's top ten for me to.
You know, a book that I read that I just love and I do go back to occasionally because if we're talking about the history of the subject and whatnot, you know, the whole bigfoot thing. Yeah, of course, sasquatching. That term was coined in the nineteen twenties, and Bigfoot kind of came on the scene in nineteen fifty eight and stuff. But before that, the world was in this like this, this tizzy about the ambomitable snowman, the yetti
in general. So when I when I plowed through Tom Slick in The Search for the YETI by Lauren Coleman, good book. Yeah, great book. I think it has some of the best YETI written YETI knowledge in written anywhere anywhere on that particular part, because Lauren is a fantastic what was the word I'm looking for, not just author, but like his his his perspective of history is fantastic, and the fact that he was actually doing stuff back
in that time too. He was a young man. I think at that point he's been looking at this thing for seventy years. I think he told me, and there's nobody like that in available nowadays.
Yeah.
So Tom Slick on The Search for the Yeti is a fantastic book because it's it's part biography of Tom Slick and then part informational about the investigations into the Yetti at that time, which dovetailed into the sasquatch thing that we're all enjoying today.
Yeah, I read that book probably three times. I thought it was great and you don't link to that though. It's a good one, except for the endings of bum out is a was it Heinrich Messner.
The Reinhold Messner Rhinhold.
Messner, Yes, Yetti book, And he kind of caught so much crap. I mean, it's a great book, and then he tries to write it off at the end as a whistling, upright running bear that he saw, Like, so he quit catching crap from all the people about saying he saw YETI.
Yeah, that was a super big disappointment because at the beginning he was saying, oh, yeah, I was upright. He was describing or YETI or a sasquatch. He was describing something that could not possibly be a bear in anyway, and at the end he goes, yeah, it was a bear. So so what are you a bad observer?
Is that?
It like you're just shooting yourself in the foot by saying it's like I wrote all this stuff earlier and I'm either an incompetent observer or a coward for changing my mind at the end. Very very disappointing to me, very disappointing. He's going, oh, Cliff just called that guy a coward.
I did, I did, I said all kinds of stuff. But I was like, yeah, I was so bung like, I was a hero. And then all of a sudden, I was like, dude, you're being a b och like just because you can't stand up by like he saw it. He saw it and stick to your guns. But it was still a great book because he's such a badass, he's been so through that area. Just his his writing about that area was was, you know, pretty pretty compelling.
It was. It was a good photo to make you really want to go there and check it out myself.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages.
Yeah, I was going to see if you guys had favorite books that were not about the Sasquatch but directly related to it, you know, the analogous Hmmm.
I don't read much nonfiction, I mean fiction. I don't read much fiction.
No, no, these are not fictional, I mean they're just they're about other animals like I would recommend all our listeners read David Peterson's Ghost Grizzlies about the potential survival of grizzlies in the South San Juans of southern Colorado. Any of the Jim Corbett books, especially Man Eaters of Command, some of the most riveting nature writing. David Kwalman's Monster of God is a fantastic book about belief systems associated with certain animals. You know, I referenced some of that
stuff in my book. And then there's a great writer named sim Montgomery who wrote an awesome book called Spell of the Tiger. She wrote a book called The Search for the Golden Moonbear, which has this sort of like cryptozoological angle. I guess because it's the search for this as yet sort of undiscovered species of bear, or I guess at the time it was somewhat undiscovered or thought to have been lost, maybe like a Lazarus species. I don't know a lot about it yet, but I'm about
to dive into it. But the Spell of the Tiger was amazing. She went to the Sundarbans, which is like the tiger death capital of Asia. There's more people eaten thereby tigers than anywhere else, and so her writing is fantastic.
So I'm looking forward to digging into that. But I just think there's so many consistencies between a lot of these studies and lessons to be learned about how people find these other sort of hidden animals are very rare animals that are just directly applicable, and it's great fun to read those things.
I don't have any books like that that have really grabbed me or I can think of off the top of my head, but what did come to mind are a couple of books by Ian Tattersall. Ian Tattersall, I think he's head of the Human Origins department at the Museum in New York, the Natural History Museum in New York, or maybe it's American Natural History Museum in New York.
I'm not sure what the title I forget is, but he wrote a book, the first one I read of him is called Masters of the Planet, and basically his premise there is that humans are special, not because of
our tool use or fire or anything like that. It's mostly for symbolic thought, being able to put larger ideas into symbols, whether those symbols are visual like photographs or pictures or hand signals, or if they're auditory, which comes down the language, because if I say, if I say the word I don't know tree, those sounds I just made to e like that's not a tree, but the idea that that those sounds symbolize are translated into our brain as a tree, and he was arguing that that
perhaps is the origin of our humanity. I guess, in some sort of way, maybe the kernel of our humanity for lack of a better term. So I really enjoyed that book because it as well as my other favorite book by him, which is called The Case of the Rickety Cossack. What both of these books kind of eventually fall into the Case of the Rickety Cossack is also
in a book by Ian Tattersall. What both of these books eventually fall into is almost like a brief history of paleoanthropology, which I think is a fantastic topic and one that most bigfooters, if not all bigfooters, should probably dip their toes into a little bit, because not only does a shed light upon ourselves as Homo sapiens, but
also sasquatches for whatever they are. But finding out the history of paleoanthropology through these books, and what we think we may have learned about our ancestors and near relatives directly relates to sasquatches in many many ways. It was I think it was Masters of the Planet, if I remember correctly, that book is what kind of sheds some light on this idea of mind that the sasquatches are probably power scavenging on coyote, you know, prey essentially power scavenging.
I've mentioned before, is this strategy of animals and hyenas do it for humans?
Did it?
We still probably do in some places in the world. Alstralla pithesenes did it where they basically let some other animal kill kill the prey, and then we'd move in and throw box and sticks and try to make off with the biggest part we can and then let the predator have the rest of the kill. And I think sasquatches are doing that. I think that is the connection
between coyotes and bigfoots for the most part. And it was this book Mashes of the Planet where I picked up on that idea and started developing it and reformulating it for as a sasquatch, molding it into what might be applicable to our big friends in the woods here. And of course the Case of the Rickety Cossack. That is definitely a kind of a history of paleo anthropology written in a narrative sort of way, which is really neat.
It's a really great book, and it shows you not only how much we've learned, but also how little we have to learn from. I hear people say, oh, evolution, it's just a theory. Well that's because we're missing so many pieces of it. I mean, evolution is a fact period, it's just like the details that we're still shaping. There's really no denying it if you went face with the evidence like that, and I open on that step in
anybody's toes, but sorry, it's true. And the Case of the Rickney Cossacks shows you the development of our ideas about ourselves and our origins over time, and also some of the relatives that we have in common, and all that stuff is just so fascinating to me. And the way he packaged it and presents it is very palatable. It's just it's not exactly it is an easy read.
It's certainly not a difficult read. It's nothing that you know it's not an archaic language, and it's not like his sentence structure is weird and you have to get in your head. It's a great reading. Both of these are fantastic books.
Absolutely. Have you read David Begans The Real Planet of the Apes?
Oh? I have actually, Yeah, I actually have read that is my library at home.
Yeah, that's one of my favorite books about ape evolution. He makes a really strong argument for the evolution of apes predominantly occurring in Eurasia. But it's a fantastic book about the Asian apes and the Eurasian apes, apes that evolved in parts of Europe as well. But that's one of my favorite paleoanthropological books for sure.
There is another book I read and I really enjoyed it. I think some of his theses that might not bear out, but the information I picked up from was really nice. And I forget who wrote it. I can look it up real fast. But it's called The Red Ape. Yeah,
I forget. It's basically about orangutans. And this is when I was I wanted to find out more stuff about gigantipithes scenes and I knew that they were closely related to a rangatans so I wanted to read about those and see what was up with that sort of stuff. The Red Ape. Jeffrey Schwartz is the author of that one, and after reading that book, I was just enamored by orangutans and I could see that, you know, okay, maybe they are somehow related to the Sasquatches in some sort
of way. Maybe you know, the Sasquatch Giganto connection is of the real deal because of the behaviors and the intelligence level and whatnot of orangutans, because they seem to be, depending on how one measures it, the smartest of the apes, and just so fascinating in so many ways, and the small details of their anatomy that they go into. It's
a really great read. Now, I happen to mention that one time the doctor Meldrum because we've been camping together a few times, and around the campfire we start this is the direction of conversation very often human evolution and apes and all that sort of stuff, because I've got so many questions and he loves to talk about it, and you know, it's a rousing campfire discussion and he goes Oh. I wrote a review of that one time,
an unfavorable review, and I said, oh my god. So but nonetheless, and again I think it was probably because there was some argument or least suggestion in the book that perhaps humans are more closely related to orangutans than we might suspect, or then the current evidence points to because of some sort of anatomical detail in the cranium or the skull or actually the roof of the mouth somehow, where the sinuses going at this particular place, and no
other ape species but humans and orangutans have this. I don't know. The anatomy of it was a little bit above my head. And I'm pretty sure that's probably what you've had some disagreement with.
So I need to read that book. I have not read that one. It sounds like a very interesting book, for sure.
Yeah it is.
Well, I've got a copy of it. You know, if you when you're out for squatch Fest, I can lend your mind if you want.
Well, if it's on Kindle, I'll But I really love reading on Kindle because I can read anytime anywhere, Like I've probably got two hundred and fifty books on my Kindle app And the other thing is I do a lot of reading at night because like when we go to bed, I'm usually not very sleepy, so I'll get like an hour hour and a half of reading in before I actually fall asleep. And I don't need a light because it's on the phone, you know. So that's kind of nice.
But I don't like reading on my phone or my tablet. I'd like to have something in my hands.
I love the Kindle, like I said, because you can highlight portions you know that you find particularly useful or meaningful, and then it saves all your highlights, and then when you're done with the book, you can export it.
Oh I didn't know that.
Yeah, so you can just email it to yourself and like, oh, here's all the highlights with references, so I can go, oh, here's all the portions of that book I found particularly meaningful. And then if I ever opened up the book again, I can just go straight to my highlights and go back to those portions of the book when I reread it or something like that. But it's just super convenient that way.
Yeah, I can see the convenient part of it. But there's something about the smell of a book I can't get. I can't let losive.
Yeah, if something comes out new, I'll buy it on Kendles so I can have it like the second it comes out. But physical books, I love used bookstores because you know, like if I'm on Amazon, it's because I'm looking for something specific, like oh I heard so and so just release such and such today, I'll go buy
it at the bookstore. I'm like, I'm going to look at every title in you know, the natural Sciences, and if something jumps out at me that I've never seen or never heard of or that sounds relevant, That's how I discover things is through the used bookstore. So most of the stuff, like I'll order new books if it's not available in kindel format, but like I've got tons of books, but most of them I get it used bookstore.
It drives my wife crazy because I have to go into every use bookstore that we encounter on the road because I'm like, you never know what you're going to find. And you know, I found assigned Krantz book in Juno, Alaska. Oh, I found as signed first edition of Jane Goodall's in
the Shadow of Man for a dollar. I guess they didn't they didn't know it was And so I went to my favorite bookstore in Nashville the other day and I found a signed copy of Ghost Grizzlies, which already had, but it was only three bucks, and I was like, I'll get a second copy of Ghost Grizzlies because it's signed to like Bob and Irma, whoever they are. Yeah, if you ever at a bookstore used bookstore and you see a book, you already have check the inside cover
before you go, oh, I don't need that. I already have a copy because it's happened to me multiple times now, So.
You don't find those old big Foot books like that anymore. Everyone goes on eBay and looks at the price. Now they go, oh, I can check up the price of this.
Yeah. All the cool used big Foot books I got were in weird places. I mean I found Dehindon's book in North Georgia, which I thought was kind of an odd place. I found several cool green John Green books in Montana and Wyoming. And then when I moved to Washington, I worked next door to a used bookstore and I introduced myself to the guy and I was like, oh, hey, you know, here's what I do. And he's like, oh,
if we get these in all the time. If anything comes in, I will just put it aside, because I said, look, if I don't have it, I'll buy it. And he never got one in in the three years that I lived there. I used to go to Pike's Place. You know, there's a cool used book store there. Never saw Bigfoot books, So people don't let those things go very easily.
Minty Scott Minton a good friend of mine. He's the guy with the record store in Sandy And actually he got customers from her podcast. Somebody came in and came to the museum and they were going to go to the Scott's record store next because they heard us talking about on the podcast. How cool is that?
That's cool?
Yeah, Mean, he goes to the Sandy Library because we live in Sandy's and so does he. He goes to the Sandy Library all the time because they often sell use books. And he found an old copy of a Bonnable Snowman legend Comes to Life back there with a new cover on it by lovingly put on by the librarian there, and with a laminated cover and all this sort of stuff, and got it for like a dollar or something like that, and he was he picked it and he goes, oh my gosh, what is this, and
the library says, I knew somebody would love that one. Yeah, I picked up Weevlman's I think was Weevelman's That that his book on sea serpents. I got one of those out of the library sale one time too. Another fantastic resource for use books. Yeah, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages, you know, you.
Know we're we're forgetting. Is I still love the Locals by Tom Powell? Yeah?
Yeah, Tom, Tom, yeahs as paranormal as Tom has eventually ended up, that book was was groundbreaking in its time. I think it may have been the first book to mention this idea of habituation.
I think so.
I think it was the first that wasn't really out there until Tom started writing about the Jay Hales project, which was a BFRO project back in around two thousand, a very successful project that frankly did get the its credit because Tom, through the benefactor Richard Richard Hucklebridge, who's still out there kicking somewhere southern California somewhere, they bought all this fancy ir night vision camera stuff that is
our chick by today's standards. They set that stuff up and lo and behold, they actually got really really poor quality photographs of a Sasquatch. I think it's the first time that has ever happened with night vision and stuff. And we have a whole display devoted to that those photographs. There's two photographs that they got. We have a whole display in the NABC devoted to that, including the original equipment they used to get it.
Oh, another book, I have to mention, I can't believe I've forgot it. That's just my other favorite mystery a worldwide book is Gregory Forth's Images of the Wild Man in Southeast.
So that's what I was gonna say.
That book is so and it's unfortunate that that was published through the University Press because you know, he's got his new sort of popular nonfiction book between ap and he Human, But his prior book in two thousand and nine, Images of the Wild Man in Southeast Asia is amazing. But even brand new, it's at University Press prices, so it's like sixty dollars and even the kindle version is around the same price, which is fairly ridiculous. But that's
what you see all university press books set out. But it is absolutely worth reading. It's extremely well written. That's one of my favorites.
Yeah, you know, it's a great great resources chat, our men's historical Bigfoot all the He's got like eighteen hundred Newstriper articles pre nineteen seventy I think or something like that. And there you don't.
Talk about it's like, yeah, yeah, that's a great book.
It's like, was it like twelve hundred pages or something. I mean, it's thick.
It's pretty great. We have we have some displays in the museum, but I don't go the like full bor on those because well, people have done it better, you know, Like why would I put out like a handful of a newspaper articles for people to see when there's entire books devote it to that.
Yeah.
Did you guys ever read Jean Paul devonats The Asian wild Man?
Yeah?
Yeah, I can remember the author's name.
We have it on we have it on the shelves here in the museum.
Actually, oh, very cool. Yeah, I just have the kindle version. I've never found a physical copy, but maybe when I'm out there for Squatch Fast, I'll pick up one since you have it on the shelf, because I love that book. That was a really well written book.
Yeah, we can spend a lifetime talking about this, but you know it is coming to the end of our hour here.
I forget. I'm forgetting. I know, I'm forgetting, like probably two books that I really like on spacing.
Well, you know, maybe that's a good topic for a future one. Then it's just what when don't we hop on and that we can focus on a couple of different books.
Hit the big ones.
I think we did. I think we hit most of the big ones. I'm sure there's some that we're forgetting, you know, Like I like Roger met Patty. I think that's a must read for example. Yeah, Ken Gerhardt's book on Sasquatch or Bigfoot there is one of the best ones written recently. That's a fantastic overview of the subject.
In general. There's all then, as far as the regional stuff goes, the British Columbia stuff that features Bob Timmins in the cover that was put together by Chris Murphy, or Steinberg's books, there's just so many that we can mention and go deeply into.
Yeah, the doc in West Virginia, Rush Jones, he's like his, like I enjoy his.
Yeah, there's just too many books to go into. But I don't know. Maybe a future episode, if our listeners would like to hear us go on about this sort of stuff, we can go maybe do a deep dive into a handful of these you know, that might be a lot of fun.
Yeah, this is a great first meeting of Clobo's book Club.
Yeah.
Yeah, I wanted to call it Monster Piece Theater, except that the Sesame Street already grab that one.
Yeah, we can guess what you guys want to hear. You can just let us know.
Yeah, because that's any thing about being members, you have direct access to us. Essentially, you can write on Patreon. Matt Prute reads every single thing and he pokes us about. It's like, hey, this is an idea, or that this person said this. This person said that. We get emails that were sent by you guys to the thing. When Matt says, oh, the guys would love that he sends it to us. We get the information that you give us. So I want to encourage all of our members to
give us more information. This is your podcast, you know, we are here specifically for you, and so what can we do for you? How can we best serve you? We are always looking for ideas because we're four years in man, it's hard to scramble for new stuff every single week, but we're doing it, and I think we're doing it pretty well. But we could always use some help, and we might as well get help from the people who care about the podcast more than anyone except for
perhaps us three, and that's you, guys, our members. We thank you for everything that they've been doing, and we can certainly use a little bit more help. By what's your idea? What would you like to have us talk about? What topic do you think we should do, what guests should we have on? Anything like that. We may not do your ideas, but we will listen and consider every single one.
Well, I guess that's it then, I for us this week.
Thank you so much, members, We really do appreciate it.
Mutuscasses. All right, folks, Well that's another episode of Beyond, Bigfoot and Beyond, and so we all until next week. Keep it beyond, Squatchy.
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