Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so light say subscribe and raid.
It five stock and me.
Greatest con yesh today listening a watching, always keep its watching.
And now you're hosts Cliff Berkman and James Bubo Fay.
Hello Cliff, Hello Bobo. How are you doing today, sir?
Pretty good? Pretty good?
What's happening?
Just uh, I don't know, work and stuff and you know, I just got back in town from Kentucky. I was at a cryptid con. Oh yeah, great event. I really enjoyed myself. A lot of good people out there. I saw Tom Shay. Tom Shay is of course a national treasure in every single way international pretty much pretty much.
Yeah.
He passed on a couple of casts for the NABC. One is a gift to the NABC, which is a fantastic cast from Trimble County in twenty eighteen. The cast is from an individual named Goliath that we've been tracking over the last few years. There's some dramaticallypics on it that maybe came from the Sasquatch, maybe came from introduction or being tainted somehow, you know, like maybe Tom touched
the foot print before his cast. Not really sure. I actually I'm working with a forensic expert who is an expert in dramaticlyphics and ballistics of all things, and he has some questions about the cast. So I was talking to Tom about that, and of course Tom has nothing to hide. He wants everybody to look at these things with a really close eye and just get to the bottom of everything, get to the truth of all this. So I was talking to Tom about this cast and
about the concerns this one gentleman had. He's a police officer in Georgia. And Tom says, well, I'll tell you what, I'll just give you the cast for the NABC. I'll just donate the cast to you and then you can make a higher quality mold than what you have and then send it off to him. Which is really a fantastic thing and so generous and really speaks volumes to Tom Shay's character that he he just wants qualified people to closely examine the evidence and get to the truth.
So I got that one back at home, and also while while he was bringing a cast, I specifically asked him, you know, now, there are two fantastic handprints that Tom cast in twenty sixteen, not that real big one that you got to hold in person. But there's these two other ones, right, and it's the same hand that the fingers are curled in one and protruding to the ground, and the other well, apparently there were there was a footprint associated with it. Tom sent me a photograph of
the two hand casts and a footprint. I go, Tom, there's a footprint. He goes, yeah, I never told you that. I said, no, he never told me that. So well, hey, and so like a year goes by or eight months go by, and I figured out, I'm going to see Tom at Cryptidcon and I'm revamping my presentations for this coming season. I think I'm going to do something on handprints. I did something at handprints a number of years ago, but so many more have been uncovered since then, and
so much new information has come out. I want to revisit that topic for this coming season, and you know of conferences. So anyway, I said, Tom, would you mind lending me that that footprint because I want to use it and see if there's any correlation hand size and foot size and all this other stuff. He goes, oh, yeah, no problem. So I see Tom, and he goes, hey, I got that cast for you, And I unwrapped the bubble wrap and there's a half cast there. I go, Tom,
this isn't the one you show me. He goes, oh, no, I couldn't find that one that I showed you. But this was also in the trackway. Huh, said Tom? There were two? There were two? What else are you hiding from me? You know, not that he's hiding anything, of course, but you know what I mean, it's like, oh my god. So that a really interesting half cast. And then there's still that other footprint that he's not quite sure where it is because he's got tubs of these things, right,
He's been collecting these prints since the eighties. So you know, I can't hold it against them. I'm rather disorganized as well, you know.
Yeah.
Anyway, so the Crypto Con was great in that sort of way, and I don't know that that's pretty much it, really, although I did come home to a very very sick dog. Fortunately, Yeah, so she's not I mean, she's doing better now, but you know, I mean she understandably has separation anxiety issues and has a lot of baggage from you know, being tied to a tree in the woods alone as a puppy, and then you know, we stumbled upon her and saved
her life basically. You know, so she's got some baggage, but then she's used to like Melissa being home when I'm gone, But this time Melissa came with me because she later drove out to Pittsburgh after the event to surprise her mother for her seventieth birthday party. So happy birthday to mom of course out there. Yeah. So, so she kind of freaked out while we're gone, got in the trash ate some stuff and then stopped eating anything. Then she wasn't pooping and all that other you know,
dog issues and stuff. She's slowly rebounding and the stress is going away. I'm literally looking at her right now. So but yeah, things are getting better for her. But they don't like having a sick dog. You know how that is, Bubbs.
Oh god, yeah, it's because you're like, talk to me, Talk to me, you know what's going on?
Just tell me what's wrong. Yeah, but that's me, man. What's up with you?
Getting ready for Bart to come up tomorrow.
Night, tomorrow night, Thanksgiving Eve.
Well, he's gonna he's gonna take off and then he'll probably won't get here until Friday morning, and then uh, we're gonna do our annual squatching and gambling football watching it.
We'll be out.
We're not gonna go too far out like, well, we'll have to keep it close where we can come in and watch games and be in internet range.
So get his bets in. Well, very good. I wish you good luck on both counts, big footing and gambling.
Yeah.
Nice. Nice. He's just gonna go to the local spots basically, Yeah.
Then we're gonna go.
Polly Pizza has gotta he's got. He lives out out behind like like between Fieldbrook and Mckinneyville, come out in Mount's on those those coastal hills like just south of Trinidad, and I get a lot of reports out of there, and I've and I should spend more time there because it's so close, but I kind of it's just, uh,
there's there's house. I mean, there's you know, there's a couple of thousand people live in that valley, and so I try to stay away from like anywhere likely it could be like overlap, like because there's so you can get so far out there around here, you know, like where.
There's no houses at all.
I try to go to those places, but there's reports coming consistently through there. So we're gonna check that out and see what we can find.
Oh that's cool, you know. That reminded me of something that's super big. Aggrig aggravation. By the way, I was at the museum today. It's it's Wednesday tomorrow, Thanksgiving for the people listening, that's when we record these things. So I was at the museum today for a few hours or whatever. I only took a I only worked for a little over a half day because of my dog. Of course, I want to come and make sure she wasn't gonna crap all over the bottom floor of the
house like she did when I was gone. And then uh, but so before I left, I like, well, oh, there's a message on the machine. I'm just gonna double check this or erase it if it's old. And it was a woman's voice. I'm not going to say the name or anything says yeah, my name is so and so, and uh, I don't know if this is the number I'm supposed to call. But I saw something and I don't mean it might have been a bigfoot and I
got it on the video on my phone. A couple of us did, A couple of my friends, and is this the number for that? My name is so and so, and you can call me back my numbers five oh three click, and then it hung up. It hung up, and then of course, you know, I what and I fumbled back through the incoming calls. You know, on the store phone. This is the store's phone, and the number that came in at the time she called this was yesterday.
By the way, the number she came at the time she called was a number form like six oh one area code or something like that. So I called back, and then I called Nico the manager, and said, oh yeah, that came that yesterday. I called her back to and anyway, that was yesterday. So somebody here in the Portland area, at least someone who has a Portland phone number. She and her friends apparently possibly saw a sasquatch. Release think they did, to the point where they called the Bigfoot
Museum to tell them about it, and has video. So so that's making me pull my eyeballs out. Yeah, it might have been yesterday, might have been the day before. Oh man, as I rained that hard since I got home. There's probably prints in the ground because it's all soft and muddy and video. But man, such as the life of a big Footer. It's like, oh, Cliff, there's no Murphy's Laws, just a blah blah blah up here. There clearly is Murphy's Law guaranteed guaranteed. Yeah, anybody who says
that hasn't been big footing very long. I think we got some good stuff caught up today. Fantastic. Yeah, of course are our guests today. And I may get the
name wrong, Like, it's just so funny. I've known of these people and what seems like forever forever actually, and I've kind of known them emailed here and there and stuff, and then lo and behold once a year so they start wandering into the museum and I'm greeting them and they and I remember last year it was like, hey, Cliff, I'm so and so, oh my god, I know you are. And then this year the other half came in. I said, what,
why haven't you been on our podcast yet? So yeah, I believe the name of the thing and correct me if I'm wrong. Of course. I think it's the Michigan Recording Project and the two folks that headed are so deeply involved they might as well head it are here with This is Jim and Stacy Flowers for our old for like old folks like you and I Bobs. That's a name out of the past, all right, So Jim and Stacy Flowers, welcome to Bigfoot and Beyond with me and that guy. Thank you nic here, Yeah, thank you
so much for setting aside a little time. We made this arrangement a couple of weeks ago. I mean, Stacy was in the museum I think like last month or two months ago, I don't know, and Jim was in last year if I remember correctly, although I do have
a pretty lastic sense of time. But how fortuitous to run across y'all, and now to have you on the podcast and your perfect guests, because I think that you're best known for the vocalizations that have been recorded off one particular property, although again I'm wrong about a lot of stuff, so maybe I'm wrong about that too.
That's right, we've been on that property for since two thousand and five.
Since two thousand and five, that seems like forever ago. But how long before that were you big footing?
Oh? Well, me only a couple of years. Jim, he was actually eight when he had his probable sighting and started chasing reports and newspaper articles and that kind of thing.
Eight years old, So, Jim, I wasn't even where you had a sighting. Why don't you tell us about that? To get us going here.
Basically, my grandma lived on the edge of an apple orchard at Athens, Michigan. One day I was out playing in the yard, saw a huge thing walk through just the inside corner of the field and the orchard there.
It just disappeared. Scared the hell out of me.
I ran back inside and didn't go back out the rest of the day, probably about wasn't A week later, there was an article in the newspaper about another bigfoot sighting had a track find in the area, and I just kind of like, you know, my I was in mind put two and two together, and I just started reading everything I could and finding every newspaper article I could, and everything just kind of snowball from there.
So how did you get back in? This is back in the day. I'm assuming that you know what you're like. I imagine you're about my age, and I turned fifty three next week, so I'm assuming that you're about my age, Coose.
Yeah, I'm just a little bit older than you.
Then.
Yeah, yeah, so this is back back, pre internet and whatnot. So your only real sources of information were books, which I still advocate as being the primary source of information for all of our listeners, even beyond podcasts and television and stuff, and also newspaper articles. What did you do? Did you collect them and put them in a scrap book or something, or did you just read them and take notes or did you just read? What did you do it? Back then?
At the time they had a scrap book?
I cut them out and stuck them with tape on an old photograph book that my grandma had and just kept going from there. Unfortunately, she also thought that with the interest in Bigfoot, that I wanted everything from the National inquirer. So I had a scrap book full of everything from whoever had the Bigfoot's baby to the latest flavor of the week from the local newspaper, some of the national ones when they picked up the story.
Well that's sweet, though, that's, however misguided that might be. That's very very sweet of her, you got to admit, So, do you still have this Footo album.
I don't think I do.
My mom may have it somewhere, But my grandma passed away several years ago when I was stationed in the maybe and a lot of her stuff that was there just kind of disappeared. The house she lived in and got sold. So even the apple orchard is now a small subdivision.
Sure, sure they had they put up a parking lot, so to speak. Yeah, well, gosh, So so you started around eight Were you doing field investigations? Man like, did you ride your bike over like, you know, like a stranger thing sort of thing and I doing a field or it was just collecting information at that point at.
That point, collecting information.
I think I actually as well as I could investigated the first report, I was probably about thirteen.
I don't remember the details of it.
It was a local kid who thought he saw something in the words too, so we just kind of like compared notes and went from there.
I don't even remember his name. It was so long ago.
That's cool. That's really neat now, Stacy, Yeah, how did you get involved in this whole subject here?
Well, my interest goes back to when I was eleven or twelve, way back to the mid seventies when it was all kind of first blew up. In the first place, there was a movie coming out in the theaters and I can't remember the name of it, may have been Sasquatched something or other, but there was a commercial would come on the television back in the day when you had to get up and change the antenna and the channel on your big console TV. And in the commercial
it played this vocalization as long howl. And the first time I heard that, it freaked me out so bad. And I don't know why. I almost had like a physical visceral reaction to it, you know. So here's this kid getting scared of this commercial, and every time it would come on and have to get up and change a channel real quick before that sound would happen. And from then on, as a kid and growing up, Bigfoot was like my boogeyman. That was the thing I was
afraid of in the dark. It was a thing that freaked me out when the family would go camping, you know, and I always just felt like something was out there, but I never really I kind of I didn't really lose interest, but there was nothing to keep my interest for a long long time, many years and when I first got online one day, I was thinking around just kind of learning how to use the internet and the computer and all of that, and I said, Hi, what
if people are still talking about pickfoot? And I did a search, and god, you know, when all was out there, tons of stuff. This is. This is in the day when there were only like discussion forums and individual websites and things. And I was shocked by how many people were still talking about this and making claims. And the more I read the it sounded like there's maybe really something to this. And before I knew it, I was
just hoping the subject. And so I spent a brief time in the BFRO back in two thousand and three, I believe, and then the group that we camp with got together in two thousand and four, the large group that got together that had met quote unquote met on the Bigfoot forums way back in its early days, and we had a weekend camping trip, and you know, people have similar mindsets kind of split off into different groups and things, and that led to us getting together and
doing our thing, and then we started on this property in two thousand and five.
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How did you find the property?
Well, there was a BFO investigator named Casey Carnes who Paul Willison and I were you had you talked to him? Okay? So just Paul and I had talked to him each separately online a couple of times, and he was supposed to join us in our original spot one evening, and he was going to bring out a guy. He that got a guy I'm going to bring out. He's got some stories, He's got some things happening on his property. I'm going to bring him out with me and you guys can meet him and talk to him and stuff.
So Casey Launda not coming because his mother was sick, but this guy with her, I should say, convoluted instructions and way back on dirt two tracks managed to find us after dark and the landowner he came out by himself, spent the night and we talked and talked and talked, and he liked us. We liked Tim, so he invited us out to the property and we went later that summer for the first time.
So it was a BFR report basically, what now? What was in more? You know, have to tell me everything, of course, or we'dn't use your discretion because there are a couple of people listen to this. What was in that report? Was it just a siding, was a track fight or was it ongoing stuff? I mean, what how aware of the situation were you going into this?
And I can answer that one because I've seen a newspaper article for it.
Well, there was a newspaper article.
There were actually two one days back to the seventies where basically his grandmother had a incident where it came through with ut giant footprints and was picking pea pods, and I guess the local paper came out and kind of investigated to the best of their ability, but didn't find anything. The other one was in the uh there was an incident where several boys I used to run a hant how he used to run a hot house,
and several boys basically saw a bigfoot. So the local you know, kids, one tells the other, the next one tells the next one. Next week, all the newspapers out there with reporters or a reporter from the local paper doing interviews and checking out on the incident. And that showed up in the local paper. And I think that's basically what the BFR report was actually entailing when that came out too.
But it turns out that Casey and this guy had known each other years before. Neither one was familiar with the other's interest in or background until this article came out in the newspaper with a reporter had promised he wouldn't use his family's name, and he did anyway, Casey happened to see the paper and called that guy and said, hey, guess what, So that you know the property being worked in investigated kind of came out.
Of that two basically what they call Class C reports. It wasn't even a direct observation or anything. It was just like, hey, this is happening in this general area the property owner. Was he aware of this previous activity?
Oh yeah, he's lived on or near the property. It's family property. But his awareness of these things goes back to the seventies.
Also, And was that because of sightings or footprints or weird things or all of it, all of it. Okay, okay, how big of an area are we talking about, do you think? I mean, not just the property, I mean the property could be two acres and still have a ton of stuff going on. But how big it is this green belt or like pocket of woods that these things are frequenting.
Well, well, some of us been sold off because we actually bought some of it. Six hundred acres at one point, maybe just a little bit more. But it's also basically right on the edge of the Manistee National Forest, within my easy walking distance.
Now, what sort of things do you think, before we get into the vocalizations and your individual experiences, what sort of things does this particular property and the locality of where people are and where you're finding these things go on. What sort of things are here that you think might be drawing the Sasquatches in repeatedly.
Well, it's right on a river, a very windy river that feeds into the most major river system I think in the state.
Pretty much.
Yeah, we're we're very close to the Muskegon River. That would probably be the big thing. There is a lot of farmland, but to the north and to the east of where we are specifically, there's just miles and miles and miles and miles.
Of woods, Okay, and that farmland. What do they grow on it? Do you know? The most common crop? Is it corn? Or is it alfalfa?
Or is it corn alfalfa? Oh varies because sty beams. It varies because of the when they do it, they rotate the cross for the nitrogen content.
So it's not the same crop every year.
Apparently I'm not a farmer, but I grew up in farm country and apparently that also nitrogen content and the soil or something.
I was thinking because you said corn and then alfalfa of course, and so all of those things are deer magnets, which is what I was kind of thinking about, Like what's drawing in the prey species here? And maybe those farms have something to do with it.
There's a lot of fruit trees natural like wild apple trees, a lot of berry bushes.
Blackberries, raspberries, red raspberries, blueberries, mushrooms. Pretty much that in the river is a designated trout stream, So there's a huge bunch of food there, plus crayfish if you're if they're really wanted something that small or hard to eat.
So when you first started investigating the property and its vicinity, what were some of the clues that you might have gotten, either things you heard or found or saw that kind of indicated you were on the right track and you found a good area.
Honestly, the first time that I, well, Paul and I went first, and it was just a day trip and driving in, you know, you're looking at that north south road and there's there's houses and there's cabins and farmmen, and I'm thinking, okay, there is no way, but at least it's a nice day for a drive and a walk in the woods. So I wasn't expecting anything, and we really once we got back to the woods and I saw, you know, the actual layout of the land later land, it was like, Okay, we've got we've got
nice water here, we've got tons of woods. I guess it's possible. And it was I think our first big overnight trip there that we got our one and only vocalization of that year, which wasn't convincing. You know, I think we were still leaning towards Okay, that's somebody messing around with us, and we kind of were for the first couple of years, not necessar necessarily thinking we were being hoaxed, but always keeping that thought in the forefront, just in case.
How for a part of the homesteads spread in this area, is that everybody had like five acres or something or is it just ridiculous large because you mentioned six hundred acres a little while ago, Is that the standard?
No, I don't think so. It just depends. There are some people who you know, have a house just sound like four or five acres. There's some farms that are hundreds of acres. There's dairy farms too, you know, cattle, and some of those are big.
Yeah.
There's also a lot of seasonal cabins that aren't occupied year round. So for you know, five months out a year, nobody is there.
Okay, so you start going onto this property a little bit. You hear a vocalization, but nothing you can take to the bank. It sounds like, but you've devoted so much of your time to this one location and it can't just be convenience. What really turned your head around is say, wow, we need to focus all of our efforts here. What was that.
The first few years, the first couple of years we were there. You know, we didn't hear anything for the rest of that year. That was two thousand and five. In two thousand and six, we started hearing them much more. Six and seven, it was we could almost time it to within five minutes or so of about eleven thirty at night, we'd start hearing these screams from across the river. If they came a little bit earlier, they were coming from the south. If they came later, they were coming
from the north. So good antos, you know, pattering this travel you know this north south travel route. They were taking the turning point for us where we were like, okay, this is the real deal. Was that our landowner had gotten a video clip and we went up one day just expecting to see a vague image of you know, a dark thing moving through the woods. We expect blurry and you know, completely inconclusive, and it blew our socks off. The video did the video did? He'd been our guy,
and we've seen his boxes of videotapes. He his whole life has had video cameras and has gone out and just videotape wildlife, miscellaneous, frogs, deer, you know, everything, And he'd been out there sitting to the east of Directly to the east of where our camp site is is a field, and he was sitting at what we call the north Woods. He was sitting on the north wood line and a couple of cement blocks he had sitting out there, and he heard a couple of what he
thought some pig storms. He thought it was a bear, and he turned the camera over that way, and in this video you could see a couple of pine trees and he's kind of panning back and forth, and you see what we thought were trunks. You see a couple of those trunks start moving and as you watch, this figure comes out from behind those trees and was walking north, drops down into like a little gully there. You can
you're only seeing it maybe from what knees up. Maybe yeah, you could see the butt, but I don't think we could. I don't think we would really see the knees at that point anyway. And it was just like you know in the era, yeah, the Patterson film, where you can see like the muscle contraction, like in the Deltards, it's a shoulder swinging back, you know, you can see the muscle movement in the back. You could see that clearly, clearly, and it keeps going. It drops it down into this
gully where you can't see it at all. So he takes off running further into the north woods, thinking if it's going to follow that gully. It sort of loops around to the right and comes out, excuse me, near a hunting blinds. It's been up there for years. That was up there for years. I don't think it's up there now. And yeah, and you see from a really long distance, not really long distance, but you just kind
of very vaguely see some movement between the trees. And then it comes up back out of the gully near that hunting blind and takes off and continues moving right along the edge of that gully off to like the east northeast. And yeah, it was really like, even just thinking about it now, we were just we were just speechless, just speechless. I didn't realize we were watching. Jim had taken a knee on the floor. We'd gone, and he'd gone in the house. He had a big screen like
projector TV in there. Had taken a knee on the floor, and I had a hand on his shoulder and I didn't realize I was squeezing his shoulder so hard just watching this. I yeah, it was. The video has since degraded to the point where you just can't see anything on it, which is sad.
Yeah, I was. I always advocate for the digitization of all magnetic tapes and v vhs is and all that stuff. And because that's exactly what happens, you play it and it just over time that wears a way.
Showed him exactly how to do it, gave him the equipment to do it. But he is not what I would call the most technologically adept.
He's even worse than I am.
So the difference, I guess I don't tend to procrastinate as much as he does.
But well, I often wonder how many good pieces of footage are out there that are going to start cascading upon us after discovery.
There's got to be more. There have to be more.
Oh, certainly, I would, I would think. So I've heard about some, I've just never seen it. So so you saw this, and you holy smoke star here. I've heard them a couple of times here. I don't know if you ever found any footprints or anything, but there there was enough indication at this location to start devoting some resources and time. Oh yeah, yeah, very good. And what was what what was the perhaps the procedure, what what became standard operating procedure for trying to work this property?
What would you really focus on and how would it get done?
Atually it has changed and now we're just in it to experience what we can experience. But initially when we're trying to get data, trying to get video, trying to you know, we've run the recorders from day one basically, but you know, some one of the guys or some of the guys would go out in the early evening and sit up in a tree, stand quietly and wait for things to happen.
Going across the field where you guys are making noise and camp and sitting there by myself.
Yeah, yeah, there's that there.
What else walking during the day, trying to find footprints and any piece of viable soil there is?
We found some, but.
It's we've had a lot.
Touch uncastable because of the sand and.
Everything else, or they've been in water.
Or they've been in water. Found the one in the river bank. Tried to cast that that did not go well.
Good God. Check for hair samples.
There's a lot of barbed wire all over the place, so it's a constant to just walking down the fence line looking for where anything may have come through.
I think we found deer, raccoons, squirrel.
Bear, nothing that anybody thought to actually was worth collecting.
Pet Gil, who used to be part of our group, did send one sample someplace one time and it turned out to be I think deer, wasn't it cow? Cattle? I think it was cow too. Yeah, So we didn't really have a routine necessarily at the time, pluse.
Back then, I was pretty much working seven days a week.
I do have a lot of it.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. Did either of you ever put eyes on one of these things while on the property?
Yes, yes, yeah, Jim and I had gone up. There was another another brief video that one of his kids had taped his bottom his rabbit touch over but of one walking along the woodline east to west into the late afternoon sun. And I thought at first that's a mask because it looked so distorted and ridiculous and white and shiny, and then you see a blink. But after and we figured that distorted look was because of the
sun reflecting off that oily skin. But after that, we spent some time going up and just sitting there's a large oak tree at the top of a hill the edge of the field, and just scanning, scanning that north
woodline for hours. And there was one night that had vocals from across the river and from two different locations across the river, and we were hearing a bunch a bunch of sounds in the river, loud splashing, like little plunging noises, and then we got a couple of grunts and one came from the north, the other one came from the west down what we call lot And as
Jim is looking. By this point, we've moved off the hill and towards the fire, which was down to just embers at that point, and Jim's looking down the slot with the night vision. He says, take a look at this and tell me if you see what I see. And I didn't do it because I was freaked out. This was a new thing. I would do it now, and I kicked myself from not looking now, but at that time this was a new thing and I was kind of scared. I didn't look but he well you can just write what you saw.
Basically, it was.
I guess like a imagine Shaquille O'Neil walking down a trail towards you, but he's actually bigger than he actually has with wider shoulders, and then as you see him, he just turns and basically walks quietly down a forty foot embankment and you're just sitting there, going.
Somebody else, please look at this and make sure.
I'm not crazy steep embankment.
And at that point it was just like a recovered ran up to a look to see if I could still see it, and it was just gone. Whether there's a trail that runs kind of like north northeast to west southwesternly right along the river bank, so I'm assuming it went one direction or the other along the trail.
Do you find prints, Well, yeah, yeah, we found lots and lots of tracks trackways. Again, they're in sand. Basically, you get a little detail here and there. The big giveaway that is the step length and the stride lengths. You know, you're getting fifty to fifty two inch steps.
The thing is to a lot of that, you're not getting tracks on at the ground, so hard most of the time that even like a you know, four thousand pounds tractor doesn't even leave tread marks.
Yeah, it's either it's either compacted down so hard like that, or it's just sand and it fills back in. But uh, back to the visuals. The first well, my son and I had a night where we saw something at the edge of the field and he said to me, walk over this way with me to the cars. I got a pee, so I said, okay, I want to walk with you. And so he's around the corner. We trade places.
I get around the corner and he said, Mom, look up there, so I think it is And it looked like a person standing there was, you know, sideways to us with a hoodie up and we used to have to go up to the top of the hill to get cell phone signal. And I said, no, that's just our landowner with the hoodie up. He's like, Mom, I don't think so that's way too big. I'm at this point, he's like nineteen years old in the size of a sasquatch.
But my you know, mama bear thing is kicking in and I'm like, nope, keep calm, that's just our landowner making a phone call, there's no light or anything. So we go back to the fire, grab the night vision and walk back over there and our landowner, everybody's accounted for, and he comes walking from the opposite direction from the north Woods with Paul. Yeah, and whatever had been standing there was gone. But it was only Silawett that we saw.
There was no detail whatsoever. The following year though, Fourth of July, that's one of our guys had literally in the headlights full on, no question about it, sighting. And it was fourth of July weekend, which is historically been a very very active weekend for us, and there were just vocal after vocal after focal after vocal, and we
could hear the sound travels so well out there. We could hear a mile away at one of the cabins, somebody was having a party, and so Mike took his car out just to see where the party was so
we would know. And on the way back in he turned a corner, came up over this little rise and crossing the east west road there, going from north to south, there was one right in the road, and when his headlights hit it, he had just enough time to register what it was and watch it finish crossing the road, and that was our first no question about it.
Citing now you mentioned the sound quality of the area, like the I'm not even sure what to call it, but how how well sound travels in this particular area. But the vocalizations I've heard from you seem to be very very close, and not all of them, of course, not all of them, but some of them seem to
be fairly close. Would you say the vast majority of vocalizations before we start listening to these are from a good distance or where you focus on the really close stuff, because you had a strategy that managed to make it work out.
They most of the vocalizations come from right across the room. We're the campus at the top of a high river bank, and then most of the vocalizations come from across the river. We've gotten them from the north Woods and a lot of them from the south Woods too, but most of what we record is within I don't know quarter of.
My own about that sounds why we're.
Yeah, I mean, I mean they come in close.
Do you think they're reacting to your presence which is why they're vocalizing, or like, do they see you? You think across the river hear you perhaps, or do you think they're doing this activity anyway?
I think we're in the way from where they want to go.
It's a little perturbed with you guys.
And that's always been my impression, at least because that trail there was before we started camping there. Basically that would be a trail the easy, you know, most direct route from coming across the river at wand of Shallows Points to get to the north Woods. And now we're there on occasion, so we're in the way.
Yeah, I see, that's interesting. That's very interesting. Of course it's an assumption, and I realized that, but I mean, what else do we have at this point?
Yeah, you don't.
Yeah, said though, we haven't gotten really distant vocals in a long time, but we used to those early years. You know, we would hear them for what sounded like a mile away, you know, here and there so and in that case it wasn't because of us.
No, I don't know if they're locator calls or what they are, but I saw them.
Figured it out.
It's been twenty years almost of the same location. I'm still trying to figure it out.
So well, let's take a listen to a couple of these things I'm looking at. We have kind of limited time, and you have so many recordings. Our producer Matt Prutt, who's of course on the line with us, he's taken the opportunity to go and kind of weed them down to four four representative clips that great to share. And of course we're even running out of time here, so whatever we don't get to now, we'll bump that over to our members section and our members can hear the
rest of the vocalizations. Okay, so why don't we start out with this lie two thousand and seven combo vocals. What you want to tell us what was going on when this happened here before we listen to it? Or should we just jump right into it?
I go ahead and jump right into it.
Okay, So we have a two different vocalizers or you think it's the same vocalizer.
There, two different, two different And when I labeled at combo vocals, it was because it was the first time that we'd heard two different types at the same time.
Yeah, I would say that the first one might be described as a whoop of some sort and the second one, what would you describe that as almost like a crow call or something I'm not sure.
We've always called that the AE scream the awe scream.
I gain that makes sense. That totally makes sense. And were there knocks in there as well? I couldn't. Is that trying something else?
I don't remember. I think there may have been. But yeah, we'd put up a tree stand, put probably twenty five feet in a tree on our side of the river early in the year, like in April, to let it just kind of become part of the landscape there. And earlier in the year, Paul, who was in the tree stand that night, watched as Jim and I came back
from the other side of the river. We'd gone over to sit in a ground blind and just see if anything happened by Nothing did, but Paul watched us through night vision come back through that section across the river. The night before this, Jim had been up there and five minutes after he got back down we got a whoop a turf from across the river. So this night this happened, that whoop the os scream, that's all we
heard from camp. Paul came back and let us know that from where he was sitting right there, he could hear these kind of grunts and huffs and low, low sounds, and he could also hear something else doing a little bit further north on the river. But he also watched something he just described as dark and massive just kind of rise up and move off behind the trees right there, And it was right where Jim and I had walked. He had walked, watched us walk from that area and
across the river. He said, it was just compared to us, just massive.
Those are some cool vocalizations. And you think these are just a few hundred yards away or something.
Yeah, yeah, just just across the river. The woops came yards Yeah, probably the oscreen. The roops were down closer to the river, so a little closer.
I'm uh. There was such a high quality recording it. First of all, congratulations on that great job. But having done my fair share of sasquatch recordings over the years, I think Bubba would have to this with how good a quality recording you just played for us. It must have been phenomenal in person, because recordings pale in comparison to what you actually hear with your own ears.
They do volume wise, yeah, they also pick up a lot of stuff that we don't hear with our own ears too.
Ah, A good point. So how did that, like any did this activity that particular night in the two thousand and seven did it continue all night long? And because I know this is a small snippet of what you actually recorded, it was extraordinarily active night all night long? Or do they come and go and like it went dead after a while?
It went dead after and typically most of the time that's what happens. It's kind of like, you know, they show their beds and then they take off and that's it.
Yeah, four hours work for fifteen minutes of fun.
Right, twenty years of work for like three hours.
And a couple of sightings, right, time well spent.
For me.
The brightside is a kind of made me think that maybe they are real because I'd always.
Wondered when I was a kid, I did I really see what I saw? It's like doing really existive.
I've been wasting a lot of time, But when I saw the one now it's like, oh, hey, okay, it wasn't a waste of time. Just took thirty years for that to happen, but okay.
Yeah thirty years. You have a few more thirty years left in you good stay tuned. For more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages. Well, why don't we go chronologically? Okay, and we can jump over to the next recording, which is labeled July two thousand and eight. Display Mister Matt Prue, why don't you queue that up for us?
Oh?
That was interesting. Clearly started out with a human like sound, but you know what sasquatches sound like big dudes in the woods, So I mean, that's not a concern for me necessarily. And then of course the coyotes jumped in, so our listeners, you know, clearly coyotes were present. And then at the end I caught some sort of like,
oh like that kind of thing. Was that Do you feel that that was in response to the coyotes or was it a separate individual or what did you hear with your own years there?
I no clue. I don't know what it was a response. That was the first time we ever heard that kind of sam what they kind of call now samurai chatter, And that was the first time you ever heard any of that.
So what was the prequel, like, what was the set up the context of this particular vocalization what led to that.
Let me see, I've gotten my notes. I've gotten my notes right here.
You know what, By the way, there's nothing to be embarrassed about with that. You sound like I think that was a nervous laugh. But the best investigators take notes. In fact, everybody on the audience please take note of this, they are consulting their notes, which is the power of notes. You think you're never going to forget such a thing because it was such an earth moving sort of situation. When you encounter a sasquatch nonsense, you will forget. Everyone
should take notes. So thank you very much for demonstrating that, even though it sounds like you're a little about it.
So I'm just along for the ride.
That's cool, nothing wrong with that.
I keep up camp basically these days nice, excellent.
So it was Fast of July weekend. Typically that's our big has been our biggest attendance weekend. Our two smaller kids we were always with us for the summer, so they were there every year. It's a holiday weekend. So our people who come from we had Pat and Joe who came from the Toronto area. We had Jeff and Diane Simon who drove up all the way from Indianapolis and for them it's like a seven hour drive and they were bringing their kids or kid at the time, so it was it was a It was a big
group in camp. And earlier that night we had at twelve ten, we had had like some of those O screams across the river. I thought it was done and over with. Everybody went to bed about twelve forty five, but everybody was still awake when this started happening. And that's about Yeah, that's about the context of the whole thing.
You know, did you guys ever do calls yourselves like to elicit or do you just record?
We've tried a couple of times. It's it's been several years since we've even tried that and never really got a response to it. We found that every time we have responded ourselves, it cuts everything off short. We've tried a couple of times to have like me having the female voice answer, to see if we could start kind of training them to okay, to think, if I yell, somebody's going to talk back, so maybe they'll, you know, if we talk first, maybe we can get them to
yell back at us. But you know, a couple of times we've done that and say, hey, you know talking softly soft female voice, hello, you know we hear you that. It just stops, it dead, just.
Tracks, So you don't in general, if they're going off, you just stay quiet and enjoy it. There's no response on your part that does anything except for drives them away. Right. Yep, you said this was on July fourth. It wouldn't happen to be the same July fourth that sighting that you mentioned occurred on, would it?
Let me see the citing Mike's from the car? Yes, yeah, which two thousand and nine, so it was the following.
Year, following year. Okay, And do you you said that July fourth is a really good day, like that's the best time? Proud Like does it peak at that time of year? And if so, is it? Are they do? They seem to be present at all times a year.
We're all that we don't know. Our activity has always followed like a bell curve. It starts in the spring, sometimes early spring, It ramps up in the middle of the summer, and then it starts dying back down again. We have heard them into November, I believe.
Yeah, I right about the start of hunting season because we don't really go up there during hunting season.
No, there's too many rednecks, too many gone right.
As soon as soon as especially like gun season starts, it it just stops, It just stops. There was one person who lived across there's a road, that Northwest road or that North South road. One person who lived across the road claims to have watched one and I don't know what time of the year it was, but it was snowy walk up his sideyard and across the road going like towards the river. But we've never seen or
heard anything. We're not up there as much either, But even the landowner doesn't really see or hear much of anything.
Is it a topic of conversation amongst the residents that area, Like did they see each other at the market?
Goes? You hear that last night? That kind of stuff that I don't know.
But there's a couple of people, the residents are aware. Some of them will talk about it. Some of them, you know, we've never talked to.
So there's the one kid that actually lives across said he saw the wine because he found the frinch in the snow.
That's all I was just talking about.
Oh that's the same person.
Okay, well, you know what I wanted to know, the year round activity, because you've been working this spot, what twenty years or more and more or right around twenty years, and that quantity of data is of value. I know that out where I am. And it also it seems in Kentucky and in the in Washington at a location, and even in California at another location. The data that's coming
in strongly indicates that they don't move very far. And I'm curious if that's in all areas of the country or if it's just the areas that I happen to be involved with slightly, because the data seems squarely in the corner of these things. More or less they put in a particular area. Now people say, oh, well, then you put cameras up in that area. The areas like
ten miles by ten miles or more, you know. I mean, it's huge at the end of the day, but not really that big for a large terrestrial animal to be moving around in a fairly localized sort of place. And of course, this is based on very little data because of all the quote unquote researchers out there, there's not a lot of data coming in. Honestly, there's a lot of stories and I heard knocks and Grandma's holler, that kind of stuff, but there's not a lot of actual
data and information and documentation coming in. So we don't really know yet. But it sounds like you've been collecting good notes for quite a long time. It might be really interesting to check into that. I mean, obviously, sightings and activity in general will peak at certain times a year, but you also have to include the human factor. You said so yourself, we don't really go out there that time here there's a big human factor involved. But I'd
be very interesting. I would be very interested to learn about some of the seasonal behavior in that sort of way, or if there's any evidence like footprints that might be attributable to a certain individual in the area in the snow or something like that. What's your gut feeling or what is the data in your area point to Do these things move very far?
I don't think so. I don't think so, And we theorize, of course, we don't know for sure about Our best guess is that there are a lot of seater swamps the area, and we think they've probably moved deep into those cedar swamps.
Literally, that was my next question is like wintertime, how many cedar swamps are in the vicinity? Literally? Yeah, because cedar swamps I think are the key to this thing.
There's also the what the heck's name of it by Houghton Lake, Oh, dead Streams Street swamp.
There that's basically right in the middle of the state over there as your head towards like gray Lean Air Base and stuff. And except for an occasional military patrol, there's really not much it goes on out there, especially in the winter. It's I mean, I figured for a Sasquatch it's only like less than fifty miles away, so they could probably make.
That in a day.
But if there's some in your neck of the wood, they wouldn't have to go anywhere.
Yeah, they wouldn't.
I don't just some of the walks I've taken around the area, and there's there's a great area to the south of us that's I mean, there aren't any even really any houses there. They could hide there easily. But even getting back there, we went for a walk, me and other friend of ours went for a walk.
Was it last yeah, last year or maybe even earlier. This year. My memory is so bad. If I didn't remember things, I forget things.
We trailbaves here there for probably about three miles, but it took us like six hours to do it. So anything that got back in there, you're not going to find it if it doesn't want to be found.
And of course, the winners of Michigan or legendary you know, I mean there's they're ridiculous. I can't imagine why anyone lives there. Nothing personal, of course, I mean you're much hardier folk than me.
It's a snowlishing.
I mean five ten feet of snow. Imagine on occasions. You know, Moneymaker once told me that he found the spot that he felt that the sasquatch had dug through the snow down to the ground level and was using that to just increase the temperature a few degrees for its own use. Of course, I think I might have mentioned to you, maybe in the museum or maybe blabbing about it on the podcast. I think Cedar swamps for
a big key to their survival during the wintertime. Do you have any idea what these local Sasquatches in your area are doing to accommodate themselves during.
The winter I think they're using vacated bear dams or sometimes even maybe coyote dems if they want to dig down a little bit farther, because I've actually stuck my head into a couple of bear dems and some of them are have maybe ten feet back and.
Eight feet high.
Wow, that one that's on the river bank that you're not supposed to know that we.
Stuck our heads in.
Yeah, I mean you could easily stand up in there, if you squat down. I mean you could actually sleep in there. I mean there's nothing in there, not even the bear, which is probably a good thing.
But that's really interesting because everybody's heard, of course about the Olympic Project nest site, and most people are aware that there was a second nest site found just a ridge or over from the initial nest site. And I was privy to that location just probably a week or two after it was found. And what we determined by our onside investigation is that that particular sasquatch, and we're confident it was a sasquatch, by the way, was repurposing
a bear den that was underneath the log. All the all the nesting material was piled out in front of this little hole, and I say little, it was probably about two and a half maybe three feet wide or something like that. And inside whatever it was brought the nesting material inside there as well and was digging out the hole to make it larger. We retrieved a couple
bare hair, I believe, from from the nesting material. Well inside the inside the den area, there were scrapes on the wall inside this this little den was underneath a log, a fairly large log, so it kind of dug it. A bear apparently had dug out this small den, but a sasquatch came along later and was repurposing it. And of course some people out there, if we have I
hope we have skeptical listeners. I always welcome skeptics as long as they're they're polite and kind of ask good questions and not just jerks, but our skeptics out there might be saying, well, how do you know this this wasn't a bear thing like bears brought in all this nesting material. Well, there's a couple of reasons. Number one is outside the hole that was the initial bear den. I interpreted the area as having been dug out because
there was a pile of dirt outside. It's a few feet outside like tailings basically, so something was going scooping up dirt and piling it out in front of the hole to make it larger. And in that pile of dirt and the tailings or whatever you want to call it was a hand print, not a paw print, but a hand print. And then we've also in the area. Todd Hale was there, Shane Corson was there. After a period of time had gone by and we were confident that the sasquatch was not going to be returning to
the location. We didn't want to disturb any behaviors or for it and whils. We didn't want to lose any opportunities of knowing where one was going, of course, But after we were confident that the thing wasn't going to come back anymore, we started collecting some of the nesting material and that trip yielded three footprint casts that I personally took and one I think two actually two of
those casts. The footprints were underneath the nesting material, which of course gives us a time period, a timeline here. Those footprints were laid down before the nesting material was put down there. So with those clues I'm confident enough to say that that was a Sasquatch situation, and it seems to me it was actually repurposing a bare den. So you bringing that up is really really interesting to me.
So much has been going on, and apparently it's going on to this present day as well, or pretty close to this prison day I guess, I mean, or here with us now. You don't know what's going on there. But having said that, we're kind of running out of time on the initial podcast, I thought we're going to jump in the vocalizations and mostly talk about that, but
there was so much more information to share. So would you mind sticking around for our members section and we can listen to the last few vocalization recordings that we can and learn a little bit more about the situation and bring it up to the present day.
Yes, sure, that.
Would be fantastic. I would really really appreciate that. So, yeah, people listening out there, there's gonna be more over our member section. I think it's released every Thursday, if remember right, five bucks a month if you want to join us, it's great, I mean that's what I hear at least, So Bob, do you have anything else to add? Before we split and do the member stuff. No, all right, very good, then why don't you dig us out of here? Then?
Jivin Stacy, thanks a lot for coming on the show with us today and I appreciate you're going to stick around for the members section and tell all you out there listening, thank you for joining us, and until next time, y'all, keep it squatchy.
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