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It five star and me listening watching lim always keep its watching.
And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Boobo Fay.
Hello Cliff, Hello, Hello Bobo?
How you doing man? How are you?
There?
Seems to be some sort of lag on your side? Am I guessing that correctly?
Or no, you're lugging? Now you're forward, You're you're jumping time.
Okay, I'm playing ahead of the beat as musicians say, all right, fair enough, good enough, I'm good man. How are you doing everything? Good?
Yeah? I got out out to Bluff and checked it outut there. I was out there with Polly.
We went down and he got We went all the way to the film site this time, so that was cool.
We were the only people that we saw out there good.
Anything new going on out there?
And well, they dumped a ton of money into the roads out there, and like the go roads, like they've been patching it and like just clearing it. And then when you have twelve and twelve to teven thirteen out there, they've made those like they're not paying, but they're just as beautiful.
As they could either. They've widened them, I mean they it's it's really nicely and they've opened gates they never open before, and cleared roads hadn't closed.
They haven't cleared in like twenty years, ten fifteen years.
Really really any important roads that I'd be interested in knowing about.
Okay, keep those on the DL Okay, fair enough, Yet, I'll tell you I'll tell you off.
The tales of woe and destruction were highly exaggerated, like it was not that bad at all, Like what I mean, I actually I was hearing like Moonscape, and when you're down the film site, you can't even see where it came, how close it came.
It's just looks the same.
Uh, it was cleoling up the platform still built that survived the Winner.
I guess maybe it's a new one. But they got the platform there, and they got the like the blue little flags where Roger.
Was filming from like at certain points of the where and then then I got the whatever pink red flags out for where Patty was walking, so you can actually see where Roger was he stopping film locations and where Patty was at those certain times.
Very good. And uh and Laired Meadow is all good as well. That I heard it got pretty close to that side, am I am? I correct?
Or now yeah it did, I mean, but it was, I mean it was.
I mean, we didn't look out through the drone, like, we didn't have a drone, so I don't know what it looked like. You know how they can get your view shot that you could see howard any hundreds of yards up or whatever you can see or maybe some places you can only see that forty feet but where.
Places are just visible from the road. It wasn't that.
There was a few chunks were you know, burnt out, but Laird looked pretty good overall. And uh, yeah, like they opened up some roads up there, and it was just it was I wish we had more time to the other we had to get back.
That kind of blew. But we're going to go back out there in a couple of days.
And we got some will we found some a drawn, we got a truckload of firewood. So that was kind of like it was a farwood mission with some squatching involved.
Sure, And so you went in the go road and went out the fish Lake road, or did you go back out the go road as well.
We just we were in a hurriss who went out that go road?
Well? Very good, very good. Yeah, well, you know, we probably would. I don't want to take too much time hanging out. Nothing personal, but I'm really interested in bluff of course. But we have a fantastic guest today, so maybe we should hop to that. How do you feel about that?
I think that'd be fantastic. Okay, No, I want to talk to this guy.
Well, Bobba, we have a fantastic guest today. I briefly spoke to this gentleman on the phone. I didn't hear a lot of his encounter because I want to hear it for the first time on the air with you. Of Course, I know the basics. I think a lot of us know the basics, of course, because Moneymaker Matt Moneymaker interviewed this this extensively and he was kind enough to give us access to the witness. So thank you, Matt. Really really appreciate that. Good friend. And well, let's just
jump into it. So our guest today is Irving Aguilera. Irving and his son saw a sasquatch. But God, don't don't, let's not listen to me. Let's listen to Irving. Thank you so much for coming on Bigfoot and beyond Irving. We appreciate your time.
Hi, how's it going good?
Good? Thanks for coming so Irving.
You know again I mentioned just a second ago, I don't know a whole lot about your sightings. I know the basics, but let's just do this. You live in Texas. This was on some sort of trip to California. Set it up for us. Tell us what you were doing in the wilds of New Mexico right or it was at Arizona. It was New Mexico.
Right in New Mexico, Yeah, Gila National Forest. So I live in Texas. My zip code seven eight five five two zip code you know, Haringen McCallum, Brownsville area. And this is about one thousand and fifty miles from where my sighting occurred. I was supposed to go to California. I've been going to California for the last three years to Sequoya. Well, been taking my kids and stuff, you know. I mean, it's a beautiful part of the country. So I went a week early because I got a call
we had to pick up a rescue dog. My wife and I had rescued some dogs, you know, a few years ago, and the family couldn't take care of it anymore. So I was like, you know what, I'll take off. It was literally overnight. I was like, I'll take off me and Easton is my son. I was like, well, let's just go tomorrow. So we left on June twenty ninth for the dog. So I was like, well, I'm not coming back next week, so it might as well
go off roading. I have. Me and my son weren't off roading, you know, we here, we go on the beach and stuff. So I have a twenty twenty four f one fifty Raptor with the thirty five inch tires, and this is going to come into play because of the height of my vehicle. That way, you know, anybody can google how high is a f one fifty Raptor. So we left on June twenty ninth in the morning. We made it to Las Cruces, New Mexico, just outside of a passo and we stayed there for the night.
And my son has this app called the on X Road, so I was like, well, find you know, there's mountains here, find some find a trail and we can just go. You know, off roading in the mountains or whatever. So he happened to click on this trail. It's called the Chloride Trail, and it's out of Chloride, New Mexico. It's about maybe forty miles west of a Truth or Consequences in New Mexico. That would be the starting point. So on June thirty, if you know, we did little rounds
around there and we headed for the trail. I got to the beginning of the trail at about fourteen thirty, two thirty PM. I was in the army, so I might say twenty one thirty or something. So we started trail on fourteen thirty. And it's pretty rough trail, maybe averages five to seven miles per hour on the truck because just big rocks and stuff, and we're just cruising by, not taking I'm not from there, so I didn't know it was gonna take us this long to finish the trail.
So we saw two bear, a cinnamon colored and a black, and they were within one hundred yards of each other. I have pictures of that, I think I said them to Matt. So we saw two bears, We saw elk, plenty of elk, gear, squirrels, pretty much. I guess every will animal you can see in New Mexico, we saw it. We saw only one vehicle all day. It was It was a Toyota truck the Tacoma and then had a camping tent on top. And now we saw within three miles of the beginning of the trail, mile seventy of
the trail. About miles seventy is where I saw the Sasquatch. It was about twenty one thirty that they had been drizzling, right, It was about twenty one thirty. It had just got dark. It was still some you know in the background, you can still see something. And my four fog lights were on. My headlights were on. And if you go to the cordence, I gave y'all, if we're coming from the north east and there's a change in elevation where you see a bunch of trees that cover the trail on the satellite,
there's a change of elevation. So I assume after that, compose myself that it hadn't seen as we came through the elevation change, and we moved a couple hundred you know, meters, and there's a tree, a big whatever grows in New Mexico on the Rosa Pine maybe I don't know the actual pine species there, and behind the tree about twenty five feet on the side of the road maybe. Like I told you, if my kid had a mop out the window, he could have slapped it. That's how close
it was. Was this giant figure, you know figure it was. I mean, the proportion of this was perfect. It wasn't like when you see an NBA player that you know, I've been to some Santonio Spurs game. You see the other lanky you know, they're they're not great proportion. You know, this thing was exact proportion. It was. The proportion of this thing was this thing can flip my truck over like that's how massive it was. Back to my truck, my truck is six and a half feet from the
floor to the roof of my truck. And then there was about a fourteen eighteen inch drop on the side of the trail where it was slightly like its legs were slightly bent, and then it was about maybe a foot over my truck, so maybe eight feet. You know, I would assume this thing to be and my son looks at me. We're going maybe three to five miles an hour. So if you get in your vehicle, you know, three to five miles, that's how long you have to see it, which is a long time, you know, maybe
four or five six seconds. You know, it wasn't quick. It wasn't a quick sighting where like, oh, who was that? My son turns around and look at me, and it was just like fear, like he's like did you see that that? And in my mind I'm still trying to comprehend, like, you know, did I like did I really see this? And I was like, yes, I saw that, and you know,
like I saw it like clear, I saw it. Its mouth clear, it's it's it's nose, and it's The biceps on this thing were about a little bit bigger than my thigh, which I'm almost five eleven, two hundred and fifty pounds guy. I mean, just the sheer mass of this thing was intimidating, you know, truly, I'm pretty sure if you want to fit my truck over it could
have that's how huge this thing was. And its hair was it was long haired, about maybe six inches each, you know, the hairline it was tangled, so tangled that kind of like dreadlocks. And then it was dark colored black with gray like I guess, you know, like a grain when your dog starts getting the gray hairs on
the on the bottom of its chin and stuff. The dreadlock looking hair was was already turning gray, like I could see that its face was like because its face really made an impression on me, like there's no way that you could say, you know, this was like a human, but it had human features. Like I always hear people, oh, why don't they just kill one. I was like, I don't think you could shoot it, and I think it looks too human for you to be. You know, I'm
gonna kill this thing just to show people. Except the sheer size, you know, we don't see a human, you know, eight ten foot tall. You know, it looks like a a bench, you know, a thousand pounds. So the face was it wasn't very dark the face. It wasn't black like the like a gorilla. I just compared to a gorilla.
It wasn't black like a gorilla. It was like, well, I'm a Mexican American, so like a Hispanic when we get burnt, like really burnt, you know, over years, we that that color like we're you know, not a black tone, but not a light not a brown tone kind of in between that was the skin. And the skin was like when you see an old woman or an old man that's you know, one hundred years old that has worked out in the like in the field and the
ranching farming, and they have that leathery, tough skin. That's exactly what the what the skin looked like, like leathery texture like wife kids. So I compare stuff to like Disney, like a cocoa the grandmother that that she has that leathery type looking skin. That's what his skin looked like from the Disney movie. And the mouth was wide, it wasn't protruding like a gorilla where or a chimp. You know how the eyes and the nose are kind of flat on the chimp or a gorilla and then the
mouth kind of protrudes out like on a profile picture. Yeah, the mouth was kind of flush, like a flush like a human ish you know, humanoid flush with its face. It wasn't a protruding like if you took a profile, it wouldn't have been protruding. It was just massive and like it didn't have a human Oh it's smiling or it's angry or you know, like human emotional look. It just had like a you know, it's just an animal, a creature.
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My son and I continue, we're like and we talked about it. It was like it was a bush. It had to be a bush, like what you know. Like Cliff didn't hear the story that much, but I told I told him three things. I was like, Cliff, if you had told me I saw gorilla, my mind would have said yes. If you told me that I saw Neanderthal caveman that was just trapped here in time, I
would have said yes. If you told me I saw a Native American shaman with a big buffalo skin and stuff ghost from the past, I would have said yes. That's how screwed up my mind was at the time, like of like my mind just trying to comprehend, you know, and so my you know, we left we went to the Grand Canyon, then went towards Utah and we were just talking about it, my son, and I was like, you know, it could be a treeless stump, because as
you know, there's there. So we did see blacked out stumps, you know, from the forest fires, as you see anywhere else in you know, in the out west. So we went, we picked up the dog, and we came back. That was June thirtieth, the siding. So I came back or I didn't tell anybody but my wife and one of my cousins because it sounds crazy. I mean, I've known about the Sasquatch Bigfoot, you know, I've followed it for years. You know, I even had the little Bigfoot monster truck.
You know, when I was a kid. That was probably how everybody gets you know, my age would get you know, what's the bigfoot? You know, all the monster truck.
You know.
So we talked about my son. I told my wife my wife would leave me, and my son was like, I think that's what I was like, But I'm not saying that's what it is. You know, I was telling my wife. I'm not saying it was. I'm saying I'm just telling you what I saw. I'm not telling you that it was this or that, and we couldn't. I just couldn't sleep for about less than two weeks. I was like, I was like, what if it was a stump?
And I'm just imagining stuff. So on on July nineteenth, my son and I was, let's go, we gotta go. There has to be a stump there. So we went. We we woke up that morning, I was like, let's go. We left, We packed some stuff. I was like, we're leaving. I can't take it anymore, not knowing there's a stump there. Before I tell anybody, you know, I don't want to tell somebody and then they go, there, oh there's a stump.
So we just went out of the blue again. My son I. On July nineteenth, we went and it took us the same about a day to get there. And on July twentieth, we as soon as we were crossing the tree line again, and I'll tell you that had the elevation change. My heart was like I kind of I felt more confused because in my mind there was always that it was a stump. You know, it was a stump, or it was a giant bush and so I had already convinced myself that, you know, I guess
for you don't want to be disappointed. So I was like, you know, it's a stump. Probably, let's let's just go. We'll do some other trails. And as soon as we came over with elevation change and I saw there's only one tree in that metal, There's only one tree, and it was there standing next to the tree, and that confirmed it for me. I was like, there's no way like So we went to the exact spot where we saw it and we walked around and that's where I
found what looks like a print. And I wear a size eleven shoe, so that's a size eleven, hey, dude, on that picture. And I mean to me, it looks like you can see some toe imprints, you know, on there, and it's way bigger than my shoe. And then what are the chances that I pull up to a spot that there would be a footprint, you know, out of everywhere in the United States, I show up to the spot and there's what appears to be a footprint.
But Manna Baggers posted all the photos you sent him and the map tatailing where you were, and all that you can shit it all.
Yeah, And where the print is, there's other prints because it had been drizzling that that day all day, so there's other prints, just there's no bear prints there the bear. We did see the bear maybe like straight air as the crow flies. About five miles away, we saw a giant, you know, two black bears, one black ones and them in the bigger bears. And then there is a game
trail where where the sighting was. There is a game trail that goes the meadows, maybe fifty acres if you can see it on the picture, about fifty acre meadow. And that's when I saw that. I when I made my little it was trying. It was crossing the meadow from west to east, and we came over the elevation changed on the northeast side, and it had nowhere to go, you know, so I think it's just pretending to be a stump. Its arms were bent, I mean, and its
knees were bent. Its arms were at least as long as it's its knees where it's hands worth, and its hands were kind of crawled up so I couldn't see the nails or fingers, and it stood perfectly still like a statue and it kind of looked down cut, and the hair was covered covering its eyes, you know, like a like a one of those shaggy dogs. The hair was covering its eyes, so I could see its nose.
Its nose was like a huge, perfect triangle. But it wasn't like a gorilla where it has the nostrils giant like up like it pretty much when you see a gorilla, to me, it looks like it has a circular nostril pointing at you. It wasn't that type of nose. It was a giant triangle and the nose would be between a human and a like a gorilla, like like if you could do halfway in between. That's what the nose look like. And like I said, it was leathery skinned,
like leathery looking. And its chest, that's the first thing. My son is like, did you see the size of his chest? He said, it looked like two football players put together. And this thing was probably still bigger, you know, and he compares it. He plays basketball football, so he's like, and it was probably you know, almost as tall as our basketball who tar basketball hoop is about nine foot
at home. You know, it's not a ten foot like NBA and that's what he compares it to the size, and I was like, you know what, it makes sense because there is about a fourteen inch drop from the road to where it would have been standing. Plus the height of my truck six and a half feet. You know, that puts it around there maybe eight foot, and it had I mean just what stuck with me was the mouth,
the nose, and the hair. If you get your long haired dog and it gets all mad at first, that's what it looked like, just very coarse and the grayish could have been the grayish could have been mud or something on it, but it definitely had a grayish color on top of most of the black hair. And then I went back I once I confirmed, I went back the next weekend to show my wife. I was like, just so you know that I'm not crazy, like we're going. So we went back July twenty eighth with my wife.
I was like, right here, this is where we saw it. You see there's nothing around. You're my witness, there's no stumps or anything.
After one thousand miles to go see that with you.
Yes, it was profound.
I mean, yeah, that's.
Yes, correct three times. So it went three times. The first time, I after the second time that I confirmed, I told everybody. I was like, I'm gonna tell everybody there's no I was like, you want a fact check me. This is the coordinate. I went there, I stood there that that's the coordinate. You know, go look at it, and you're going to see the game trail. You can see you know, you might find some prints there. There's
a game trail, there's how to get there. You can see the pine forest on both sides of the mountains. The elevation was a little over seven thousand feet. You know, because I know a lot of I thought, like I guess most people probably assume that New Mexico's just desert dry. No, there's streams, there's lakes up there, there's pine forest on both you know, about probably six thousand elevations you get into the pine forest. This was at seven thousand elevation.
The temperature was probably you know, seventy five degrees and one hundred down In last cruises.
Did you check out do you have any of those ranches where you hit the pavement right there where the trail ends on the pavement you did you knock any.
Of those doors those ranchers right there.
Know those that one that you see about maybe a couple of miles a few miles to the what is it southwest that it's just like a horse bark. There's the horses out there with a barn and you can't go in there because they're fenced off.
There's a nice lake there too.
I mean, you can see why that would be in that area because there's that's like the biggest water source for miles and miles and miles around.
Yes, and there is cattle. There's cows out there, you know, the with the grazing, the BLM grazing and stuff. There is cattle. So because I was like, how could something live like this? You know if there weighs fifteen hundred pounds. You know, there's a bull walking byway, you know, weighing eighteen hundred pounds even off the grass up there. So I mean, I'm sure it can. Something can survive that big.
So it was just standing or was it squatting or somewhere in between ten feet from the trail.
It was.
It was just the knees were slightly bent and its arms were curled. His hands were crawled and his arms were curled. So I don't know if it was trying to make itself seem a little bit smaller, but it stood perfectly still, like not a wing, not a its mouth movement, nothing, just completely still, just slightly arched, you know, the legs and the arms and just like if I caught it midstride and it's like, oh snap, you know,
somebody's gonna see me and shirt. I mean, the area looks like I caught it in the middle trying to cross, because the forest on the east side is maybe what thirty meters so it was almost home free, and a lot of things happened for me to be there at that time. I took a wrong turn on the trail and I had to back up, and so if I hadn't taken that wrong turn, you know, the only wrong turn I took all day happened about thirty minutes before. So I backed up. I was like, are you sure, Yeah,
let's go this way. So, I mean, it was just, you know, a super duper coincidence, or you know, it was just fate that I'd seen this thing.
And one of the photographs that you sent it looks like there's a blue bronco in it in the meadow. Is that where the animal was standing.
Yes, on the left side. That's the second time we went back, my son and I to confirm it was standing on the left side of the picture, right on the Literally, like I said, my kid could have had him off and swung it at him out the window and probably would have hit him.
So the sasquatch would have been between the car and where you took the photograph, just maybe six or eight feet off to the side.
Yes, about right, so it's facing in that picture. The vehicle's facing north west, so it would have been about ten fifteen feet or less on the left side of
the vehicle. I sent a little video. You can see I panned from left right and you can see on the east side the forest is really close to the road, maybe like thirty meters to you know from the road, So I assume it was getting across we came over, the elevation changed and it, you know, just try to act like a statue, like a stump, like a burnout stump or something.
Was the mouth closed the entire time?
Yes, the mouth was closed.
What were the lips like, where thin or what were they like?
Were thin? They weren't? They weren't big? Or anything. It was just a thin I tried to draw it because Matt. I didn't really tell the BFRO until a couple of weeks ago, because that was still like, it's crazy, who's going to believe me? You know, like I find like I was telling you, I find myself like babbling on, like trying to you know, this is really happening, because I know it sounds crazy, So I didn't report it.
Then Matt said, we'll try to draw it, you know, and then each dry and you should get a little bit better. So that's why I tried to draw it with the mouth kind of straight, just straight across. No, they didn't have it, like I said, they didn't. It didn't show any human emotions that you can tell when someone scared or upset or you knowing. It didn't. It didn't have any emotions on the face. It was just you know, straight across lips kind of thin and just lathery.
The lips were the same color as the as the face was.
Do you think the mouth was relatively wide compared to a human or was it very human like?
Yes, the mouth was about I mean huge, like the like the width of a regular paper. Okay, you know, what is that eight inches?
Yeah, yeah, like eight and a half inches or something.
It kind of reminded me of where the wild things are of the book though, the mouth on those things where it's kind of wide, you know, they're that's what the mouth reminded me of. And kind of the feet the no really no emotion, just an animal, a creature.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right back after these messages. Now, you said it was drizzling, so where your windows up or down?
My windows were up and I did not have tint on that window. It was it was a here no tint, and it was drizzy. It's like that mist, like a foggy mist. It was. It was that like a that type of drizzle. But like I said, my truck has four fog lights, two you know, the two high beams, and I mean you can go outside hitch dark or you know, and you can see what's standing next to
your vehicle clearly. And I seen, you know, I saw it maybe five seconds like one one thousand two, one thousand three, one thousand, four, one thousand five, one thousand, mam past. I mean, that's plenty of time. That's how long the siding was.
And you didn't see it before that because you came over an embankment.
Yes, where the trees are on the northeast side, there's an elevation change, and I think it must have been crossing and when we got too close to the tree, it just stopped. And I've course seen it for the first thirty feet. You know, my mind doesn't copper. It's just a stump. There's there is burnt out like up there Snow Lake, there was a fire. I think it's called Snow Lake, New Mexico. The pretty much on the
trail there is a fire. There was a fire while we were there, so we had seen you know, burnt out stumps and with regrowth on them, so they do kind of look like some of your mind tries to make something out of them. So I was seeing it. I saw as they got closer, maybe to the you know, ten feet from the front right headlight, I noticed it and I followed it all till it was next to my son. He saw it. He was pale, like he's just seeing a ghost.
That You commented that you were mostly struck by the face. That's where your attention was really focused. But your son saw some more details of the body. Is that correct?
Yes, he's he right away he said it was, you know, bigger than two you know football guys with he he compared it to somebody wearing shoulder pads and wearing like a big outfit on top of it. That's how why the shoulders were very like broad So that's what he tares it to. He says that it looked like a giant linebacker wearing shoulder pads and then just covered in hair.
Did he either say or did you notice if it was uniformly covered in hair or were there thicker or perhaps thinner patches on the body at someplace?
The chest and everything was covered in hair. It wasn't like a chamb or something that you see, you know it has nipples or anything. It was just hair, complete hair except all the way it was even covering most of the eyes. The hair, and it was just so tangled the hair, you know that they kind of started looking like dreadlocks that type of hair or the mop hairs, the hairs on your mop that's the closest thing that
I could compare it to. And about the length of maybe six inches, you know, the hair length and my son noted just the chest and the biceps were enormous. I mean talking just enormous. I don't even know there's a word to describe this. I got scared because I have my kid there, you know, ten feet from this thing, and I was like, in my mind, I was like, this thing can lift up my truck. That's how strong
it appeared to myself. So I was like, oh, we got to get out of here, you know, Like I don't you know, I mean thinking back, even if you had a you know, thirty out six, I don't think that's taking this thing down. Like the people say they're gonna shoot one man. You good luck to you. That thing is not falling with you know, five whatever biggest rounds you can use. It is massive. Could you guess
the way the weight? I have a cow that's about fourteen hundred pounds, so about that maybe one thousand pounds easily, it's about it. It was about as big as my one of my bulls out there. It's just ginormous.
You mentioned how the hair was like dreadlocks, but just to be clear, was that only on the head and shorter areas or was that throughout the body?
Yeah, the like the chest, the chest and the for sure, the from the top of the and the top of the head wasn't like what you think, you know, the like Matt showed me the little garden statute. That's the idea that I had in my mind. I'm not sure a lot of people have in their mind that it has like a gorilla cone shape on top. You know,
it did not have that. It It had a roundish head on top, very wide and just matted with hair that they looked like dreadlocks, long enough to cover most of the eyes and most of the face and then the shoulders and the neck and e was just matted hair.
Well.
I was telling the producer I was in the army, you know, I was a Medican Army back in the early two thousands. And like a like a gilly suit, but not that you can clearly tell. It was not a gilly suit. That's how the hair appeared, just kind of matted, and the legs were not matted. There was shorter you know, it would have been shorter hair for sure. The chest, the neck area and the hair was matted.
The head. Did you see cheeked it all? No, No, the lips were perfectly straight, like no teeth and not even you know how we have kind of like a like the way the Joker exaggerates the up on the mouth curved. It was not like it was just straight like you know, just straight not and not protruding, kind of flat faced what I felt. The only way I
can describe how I felt. I was just I was a Medican Army and I spent two years in Iraq in five and then in eight, right, and so in the army they train you for, you know, for gun fighting. So you know, since you're basic training, they trade you for the gun fight and the gun fight and the gun fight. So you go out there and you're like, I'm ready, I'm ready. The first time I heard like an automatic weapon coming back at me, nothing in this
world could have prepared me for that. And that exact thing is what I had when I saw this thing. The I thought I knew what it would look like. You know, I thought that I was prepared to see something like this, and I was not. Totally. No amount of preparation could have prepared me for this, for this visual.
Yeah, I was really curious when I when I read the report, because you know, I've heard many witnesses describe that feeling, and then we all kind of know how it feels to have to get out of the car in the dark, whether that's the clear an obstruction out of the road or something. And so it sounds like you had to get out of the truck just a little waist down the road right, Yes, for.
The if you see on the if you see on the map, maybe a couple hundred meters there's a gate, and you know, trobling out west, there's gates, but you open them and you have to close them because you know people's cattle will get out. And my son had been getting off all day, you know, open the gate, and he was like, I'm not getting off that, I'll drive. So I got off, and I mean I did have an uneasy feeling, you know, like something was looking, you know,
looking at me. There. I got off. I opened that gate, he drove past it, closed it, and you know, we never looked back at the time. It was that bad. For the whole two weeks after, I was like, I
should have gone back. I should have gone back. But at the thing, I'm just thinking, you know, I have my kid with me, what if this thing is aggressive, you know, because you know I seen I've seen chimpanzee documentaries and they're aggressive, so beyond that that whole like Mike Tyson's famous line, right, everybody has a plan until you get punched in the face, and that's exactly what
happened to me. I was like, yeah, if I ever see one man, I'll just take out my phone and you know the classic why didn't you get a better picture or why didn't you do this? I was like, that's a lot easier said than when you're there face to face.
Was it making a fist? Was it like I was ready to fight? Like it was kind of like you said, it's arms were kind of crawled this.
Yeah, the fingers were prolled up so I couldn't see his fingers just crolled up and you know it was like I said, just shaggy everywhere.
Did you get the sensors kind of like blowing up?
Like I sense like he was trying to like, Oh I messed up, don't you know? Don't stop and look at me. That that's the sense I got kind of a little like I said, maybe you know, the kneed ben maybe a few inches and the arms bend a few kind of like oh, you know, like when your mom catches you in the DJR, like, I hope she just goes away and doesn't ask me. Kind of thing.
That sounds like a lot of people say like that, but I've talked to that that you know, siler you like, drove right up close to real slowly. They're kind of like, crap, you cot you like, you know, they're kind of embarrassed, like they seel like they're also embarrassed themselves for getting caught like that.
Yeah, that's how the like I didn't it didn't seem aggressive at all. Like I saw three other bears. The next time I went, I saw a mom and a cubs, and she she charged that the vehicle. I mean, you know, but she was maybe one hundred meters away. But you can clearly see a bear maybe three three hundred meters, you know, in the army, we we qualified three hundred meters away open side. You can tell that a person standing there, you know, so a big is not a bear.
I could tell it the bear from maybe more than three hundred you know, maybe six hundred meters. I could clear to see, oh there's two bears over there, let's go take pictures of them, you know, and the bear was that the mom bear was you could tell was aggressive. I mean, I had two cubs I send the pictures. Also, this thing did not seem like that type of emotion. It was just more like my mom caught me. I hope she doesn't tell me nothing.
Because the thing was facing the road, pretty much directly facing the road, and you came along the side of it. You saw it on the right hand side of the road. As you approached it. You got to see this thing from profile as from a profile perspective, as well as kind of face on in some ways when it was at the profile perspective, maybe at the time where you were still kind of what was that a stump or a bush? What is that? Right? Was it completely standing
up straight or was it leaning forward at all? As we see a lot of depictions of sasquatch, So it.
Was already kind of I don't want to say crowds because I don't want to make it seem like it was crouched on it. It was the knee that maybe six inches, you know, and its arms bent maybe four inches. Not It wasn't croshed on the floor. It was standing but slightly bent knees.
Uh.
And that's how when I noticed. That's how I can tell you clearly. The mouth was not protruding like you see in a chimp or a gorilla. The mouth was very like it fit the face flat, flatter, you know, like a human, just slightly protrusion like a human, you know, not not from the side. And that's when I tell you. The bicep was, you know, like two of my thighs put together. Might have been its arm. It looked like
a stump. So I don't know if it maybe it learned to, you know, people don't look at those trees. I don't know, you know, evolution, you know, maybe it learned to try and look like or people don't pay attention when it just stops and looks like a stump. But in my mind, I thought, this is trying to make it itself seem like it's just the part of the terrain.
Yeah, that's a very very common reaction with all animals. Hey, Matt Prue, what's the name for that? What's the fancy name for that?
You might be thinking about tonic immobility, But that's usually.
Like that is what I'm thinking of.
Yes, that's the involuntary freezing response to fear. Versus something that is voluntary. You know, there are plenty of predators that will freeze in the face of anything moving around. Predators very often hunt prey animals that detect movement, and so in order for them to get closer to prey or allow prey to come closer to them, if their ambush,
predators will freeze. So I think that's a really interesting insight into sasquatches, that maybe they're very key into movement because perhaps it is the case that they think if something's not moving, it can't be seen. I don't think sounds kind of anthropomorphic, but there might be some sort of like cognitive equation between those two well.
And also something along those lines is that if and we've talked about this a couple of weeks ago, I think if their retinas are largely rods and not cones. You know, rods and cones are the two kinds of cells on your retina. Cones see color, and I always remember that because they both start with the sea and
then rods see basically in black and white. Those are specifically for night vision, and we all kind of hypothesize as sasquatches have really good night vision, So it's entirely possible that the majority or a lot of the extra cells on the back of the eye to cover the
retina would be rods. Those are also motion detectors more so than detail detectors, so to speak, so they are designed to detect movements, so that might be part of their evolutionary makeup, if my guess about the retinal makeup is correct.
So, yeah, it just perfectly still, like you know, like a deer in a headlights will look, but except there wasn't it positioned. It looked like it just positioned its legs closed, you know, perfectly. It wasn't midstride or anything. And it wasn't I didn't catch it half motion or anything. I think it already had seen me, and it just said, you know, I'm gonna stop and you know, pertend on a tree or whatever. You know, however they think And
that's no, it didn't seem aggressive. It didn't seem non aggressive. It just seemed like part of the landscape, like which I assume as what it was trying to do.
Yeah, and it could be an involuntary response.
You know.
What's really interesting, Irving, is that there was a witness that I interviewed in my hometown that I brought Cliff and Bobo to interview as well for the television series. And she saw one crossing a road and caught it as it was crossing sort of a similar thing, but
it was a paved road. But she was coming over a rise and starting to come down the hill as it was like mid crossing, and when her headlights hit it, she freaked out appropriately so and slammed on the brakes, and it froze and stood there like a statue, even though it was fully illuminated by the car's headlights and standing out in the open on the road. It stayed totally frozen until she came to a halt, and then
it turned and looked at her and kept moving. So it could be an involuntary response too.
That's exactly what would I say that I'm just telling. I'm telling y'all right now, that that's what it seemed like like. I think if I would have stayed there and turned, then it would have made a motion like to turn and walk away. That's what it seemed like, like do I go? Do I not go? You know? Is the time? No, I think it was still thinking
what to do. But that's exactly how I describe it like that what you just said, where my headlights hit it and it just you know, stopped, and it was pondering if this thing stops in front of me I'm running or whatever, and it just I didn't stop. I was just going, you know, a little bit more than a walking pace, you know, three to six miles an hour. And it probably breathed the sigh of relief when we didn't stop. You know, it was probably scared, like we
were scared of it. It was probably scared of us.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. Well, when you look at the map, you know, Matt money Maker supply the GPS coordinates on his BFRO report and for anybody listening, the report number is seven seven six one zero. The GPS coordinates are right in there. You can type it into Google Maps. If it was traveling from the northeast to the southwest, it had just crossed a pretty wide area one hundred yards or more of fairly open terrain
heading to the trees. And it also looks like there's some little topography over there with a little maybe a dry creek bed or whatever, you know, that sort of place.
There's a dreak bed in between the meadle. There's a dry creek bed, but at that time it had a little bit of water because it was drizzling. So there's a creek bed. And like I said, it's maybe what fifty acres you can see of open metal.
Well, I think you caught it at the end of its It's probably pretty stressful to cross a big open area like that getting close to the road, heard the car coming and froze up or something. It's just a you know, speculation.
I was Jesse. And also because like I said, I only saw that one vehicle and it was you know, fifty to seventy miles at the beginning of the trail, I didn't see any other human, any other vehicle or dirt bike atv horse, you know, just cattle bears and the local you know, elk deer. I didn't see any and the sun had just gone down. So I mean, if you're an animal, you know what's the best you know, the some went down, Let me cross this dangerous thing and I'll be on the other side.
Yeah, if it had made its way to the trees and then froze. You would have never noticed.
Nope, not at all.
Yeah, it just didn't change its defensive tactics, like, oh, that'll work anywhere.
There's no way that I was stopping in front of it. I don't care if I got the biggest you know, camera and production crew. The this thing was massive. I can't even say that word.
You know.
It was just that it was very proportionate. It wasn't out of proportion where it had a big head or a big chest and you know, the legs. Everything was just a proportionate animal like.
Perfect, perfectly designed for what they do. Excellent.
Yes, and my kid now he bought a night vision camera. He wants to you know, he wants to drone. He's kind of because I told him, I thought you were a big shot, thought you were gonna get your camera out and recorded we saw something, you know. But the same thing is like it was scary. It's like we need a drone to see it from far away, you know, I don't want to be near it again.
That was the perfect spot for a drone. Yeah, that was the first thing I thought when I saw it. I was like that this is where drones or could be really useful in this kind of terrain.
That, of course, the last thing you'd be thinking about in such a unexpected situation is pulling out your iPhone to snap a picture of it.
Yes, if you had one of those you know cameras like you mount up in your windshield like a little recording camera.
If you get what has showed up or was it too dark and off off the side of the road.
It would have shown up perfectly. We bought one already for the second time away and the third time.
That's how it goes. As soon as you see one, then you get it. No, you're prepared. You'll never see one that closer again.
Yeah, And I was telling your producer. I was like, you know, I live down here with brushland in South Texas. It's just brushland. I was like, the only you know, kind of scary legend we have is Zayorna, you know, because I'm I'm of Mexican descent. So I was like, that's how we scare our children and I to go to sleep. You know, Yourna's coming for you. So we don't have that at least here in South South Texas. You know, like there's a you know, a giant ape
out there. Humanoid thing. So it was quite the experience.
So as you drove away from the site, I don't suppose you looked in your rear view mirror.
No, No, it was already dark behind me, and I was just focused on, like, you know, we got to get some distance between us. Yeah, I mean it was not. No, Like I said, no matter what, you're not, you're not You're not prepared to get punched in the face. You know, your whole plan changes.
You're now better equipped. You've put a couple thousand miles under your tires going back to the side at least twice. How else has your life changed? It all now that you've had a up close and person with one of these creators.
Well, now that I now that. When I come from the second time, I told everybody. I told my wife and I I was telling you my wife and I. We own a hospice down here in South Texas, and I told all the employees everybody, and most of them are because they know me. They're like, yeah, I believe you, I believe you. I was like, yes, why would I lie? I was like, I didn't even tell you all the first time I told. I waited till I knew there wasn't anything there, so I tell now, I tell everybody.
And I've always been into you know, hunting and fishing and camping and stuff, you know, everywhere. So now my son bought the night vision binoculars, is getting the drone, so he's prepared more than I am. I was like, let's go, We're going to go back in fall break. We're going to go back and actually try to stay there at the spot to camp. I was like, let's just stay there and put a camera up on the tree and see if anything comes at night to wonder
what we're doing there. I've been reading more than I used to because I've always, you know, been interested in it, and but now I know. I was like, you know, in New Mexico, and when I went out to the BFRO, I didn't see too many sightings in New Mexico. So that's why I was like, could I have even seen it?
There's not that many sightings in New Mexico, you know, but Matt said they had they had some recent sightings close to there, and they're actually going to go there to reserve New Mexico close to the trail to check it out.
Yeah, a lot of stuff happens in New Mexico, and the stuff that's on the public BFRO page, the stuff that you get to see or any of the public it's to see, it's a very very it's a very small percentage of what's actually out there, because maybe Matt just doesn't have a lot of investigators there right now, or maybe they're not interested in publishing and that sort of stuff. So there's a lot of factors that go into it.
He called I think because he said, you know what I'm there's it's great that you posted this because we've had recent sightings here close to there in the forest in New Mexico and we're setting up a thing and then you come in do your you know, and foremost
of this. So now you know, he got more pumped up, like you know, another person's coming out of New Mexico saying that, you know, so I think Matt got really pumped up where you know, I'm kind of corroborating the whoever told him the previous you know sightings there.
Matth a fantastic article on sasquatch faces and how they've changed over time, and you got you gotta really inspired to get that out there that you're citing, yes.
And that's what I told him. And then he had sent me the picture of the McLean statue.
Yeah, the McLaren uh huh Claren.
I googled it. I couldn't. I couldn't find out my Google. But he sent me one and uh, and then he sent me another one. He said, what, like, you know, what would you change? I was like, if you crossed the mass of that McLaren statue with more humanoid features of the.
Yeah, I think the other one was from Lauren Coleman's main museum as well.
Yes, that one. I was like, if you add the mass of the wooden statue to this, you know, and the facial features kind of more of the wooden one. I was like, that's what I saw, like across you know. But then I think, the you see a gorilla, it looks different from the next gorilla, you know, like if I'm saying, you know, if we assume that it's like an eighth actual animal eight you know, even like you know, a lion has masculine features, and the you know alien
as female, you know, feminine. And that's what I told Matt was this thing had very masculine features. Like there's no way this was a female of that species.
Well, I love the fact that you're going to be going back there, and of course you have my number. If anything cool happens out there, I'd love to hear about it when you do it.
Yeah, I'm going to see now. I know you can just buy casting stuff. My wife said from you know, like some some supply store. I was like, if I had a casting I would have casted that.
They might still be out there. Prince lasts in the ground quite a long time, They're probably still some sign of them out there.
Yeah, so this time we're prepared. We're getting you know, hiking put on your hiking boots and water and some casting to cast anything that I see and you know. So yeah, we're going to go back out in October during their fall break. So I'll let you all know. I mean, as long as it doesn't get too close to me, you know, I'll be fine.
Beggars can't be choose reserving. Yeah, all right, Well, unless there's any other last minute questions, I think that's fantastic. Really appreciate your time coming on, But will you have anything else before we split?
No, it's cool, man, I'm glad you're going back and I hope you got a drone chickuse that looks like a great spot for a drone.
Yes, my kid is hooked now. My kid, even though he was very scared, he's like, we have to get a picture huckemn. But he's got a clear picture of it. Like I was like, because they're scared. There, it was not the way you were scared. Is what happens to most people.
He knows why. He's one of the people that didn't exactly.
That's what I told him. I thought you were going to get a picture of anything like No. And he has a camera, a Nikon, expensive camera because he takes pictures of through his telescope of the planets and stuff, so he has a big camera already. I was like, what happened to your big camera? Nothing, you know, So we did have that camera on board that we could have got, you know, a Nikon with extended lens and everything.
But it's just your brain cannot comprehend. I don't know, you know, I mean, you know, if you've seen one, you know your brain doesn't comprehend you know what it is. Because I can see a zebra here downtown, you know, say Houston, and be like, oh, that's a zebra. I know it doesn't belong to Houston, but I know it's a zebra because I've watched you know, Animal Planet and Discovery, you know, but this animal cannot comprehend it no matter where you see it.
Very interesting, Well, that irving man, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your encounter with us. I know our listener is going to love this. And you got such a good, close and fairly extended look at this thing. And most sightings happen over a period of time maybe a second or two, maybe three, but you had five or eight seconds of looking at this thing. You could have practically reached out and kissed it. And you in your floodlights, you know, on top of it all.
So it's just fantastic. So thank you very much for being generous with your time and in your experience.
Yes, which is luck. Maybe we'll have a better picture or something.
You've probably better off just saving all that gas when you investigated a good thermal instead of driving one thousand miles each weather, there's stuff much closer to where you live.
Yes, we got a thermal, we got a thermal camera.
You're hooked. Well, good luck with that man, come back, come back and get us a picture.
Okay, I will. I'll be out there like you all, trying to get a picture and see what happens.
Good luck, all.
Right, Derbie, Well, thank you very much for your time. And yeah, and and your story is fantastic account. If there's nothing else, Bobs, you want to get us out.
Of here, all right? Thanks serving and good luck in the future. We hope to hear back for you that you got some evidence.
Until then, folks, y'all, don's do keep it squatchy.
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