¶ Arkansas Compound and Native Plants
hey , everybody you turned on your freaking show . Your show personality like that baby I .
We got to get started here that's right eric and I are talking about business . Yeah , before we even start the before , we talk about business , but anyway , um , that's what we do . Um , but we're here on another beautiful day in northwest arkansas . It's gonna be in the 50s , it's gonna be guys yeah , I need a little warmth .
Man , I'll be real a little chilly this morning .
I ain't gonna lie yeah , I don't doubt it , bud , I slipped on my ass . This is your posture . Another night I walked out of this house that it's that we bought it's next door to next door and I walked down there just to check to see that the front door was locked and I stepped off this walk .
Okay , I thought it was one step and it was two and I went down .
Dude , I'm almost 67 years old . You know it's funny , but it's not funny .
I know . But you know , I'm at the point where , like you , fall down and yeah , die , no , no , no . That's why it's not funny to me . Jill would not died . I think he was like 68 hit his head on the eye , yeah , but uh , isn't it crazy ? It is . But yeah , you need to be careful , bro . Ah , anyway , I fell .
You know , the first thing I do is I call my wife . I fell , honey , do you need me to come down there to get you ? No , I think I'll be okay , but I fell . So anyway , that night I woke up in the middle of the night and my wrist hurts so bad . Oh shit , I was like good God , it's my right wrist . I'm going to be paralyzed .
I won't be able to do anything tomorrow . It's just so painful . I got up . When I woke up the next day , I was completely fine . I'm like I cannot believe it . I was in so much pain I thought I'd be crippled . What am I going to have ? To ? Get ? A cast , go through PT or whatever ? She woke up and you're good , okay , I was fine .
You know it's because you're a freaking machine man , dude , I don't know about that . But yeah , this , this ice , I'm ready , I'm with you , I'm , I'm ready to be warm . Yeah , man . So today's gonna be a beautiful day . We're in northwest arkansas . We were just talking about Eric's new house project , this building , which is exciting .
It's more than a house , it's a compound . It's going to be the Howerton family compound and he's up on this hill . It'll be amazing . Every time I go to the airport , I'm going to drive past your house and I'll think of you .
I'm looking forward to what it's going to look like in a couple years Because we're going to do a lot of trees , tree roll right there . That kind of blocks the road a little bit , knock down the noise , but it's going to be so nice Lots more trees going up , man , and native , native trees .
I know you don't get into this much , but I'm a big environmentalist . Weeds .
I love weeds , giant weeds .
Hey , listen , here's the deal Native species of trees and grasses and plants that are designed for our soil , our temperature . They're hardier , get better erosion control . Great for the insects great for the animals . Great for the water quality . Great for the air .
Great for the animals , great for the water quality , great for the air , great for everything . So you're going to have this massive compound in freaking Arkansas with weeds all around it ? Is that what you're telling me ?
There will be some weeds , like there's weeds everywhere , but if you do native , it actually cuts down on the weeds because you know why . Here's the thing . Here's what I realized , okay , after working on this compound . So you say a lot of earth work , a lot of scrubbing and all that type of stuff .
What I've noticed is is that if you grub the soil and you go out and you put the fescue or bermuda , the non-native grasses right , the weeds win . Yeah , they come in , baby . No , they do and they dominate because they're native , they're freaking , unless you got some invasive weeds .
But if you're the native , invasive weeds or native weeds come in and dominate the cute little grass seeds that we have if you weren't so cheap and you actually bought bermuda sod . One of the great things about it is nothing gets through that stuff well , so I , I have used the bermuda sod in my , in my portions , but no , I have to establish .
I understand you're right , though I get it , but the thing is , if you go with native grasses and you see , I mean you can start beating the weeds . The whole . The whole challenge is fighting weeds man . It is , but weeds win because they're , because they're freaking like dude . I love this nasty clay dirt that nothing can grow it .
Everything seems to grow here in arkansas . I mean , our variety of plant species is mind-boggling . Yeah , it is . You know . Like you go , go to Texas , 200 miles away , and they have about a third of what we have here in terms of variety . Oh , it's fantastic . It's really different and I love the native trees .
I mean , all that stuff is just going to flourish . You're going to drive by and it's going to be Arkansas again . Yeah , I don't want to get out of Arkansas . Dude , listen , I'm different than you . I don't like hearing my wife gets on to me . She's like why don't you do anything around our house that we live at now ? I'm like because it's too effing small .
It's too cute , it's too small , it's too perfect . Let somebody else come in and weedy , cutely pick up the little fake bark that we have around the shrubs and clip the shrubs and , you know , mow it down to the perfect little inch and a half . I'm out . I love that . I don't do any of that . I love all that . I'm out of that .
But you give me a field and a brush , hog tractor dozer .
I'm not a dozer , I'm not qualified to be a dozer . I don't know how you drive all the stuff you've got . You bought all that equipment . I love it , dude . Okay , I'm sure you have more fun with that .
Oh , dude , I was out there yesterday . All right , dude , it's so escaping . I , dude , it's so escaping , I go out there . You know hard day yesterday lots of meetings , a lot of yip yap and then freaking . I'm exhausted my brain's right .
You're in just just driving crazy , even getting pissed off more and more throughout the day , because what we're talking about earlier is nobody can understand what we were saying . Yeah , you know , for over and over again . Anyway , we'll get on that in a second .
But so I go out and I'm like I I'm going to take this mound of base rock that I have down here at the bottom , I'm going to take it up to the top of the hill to add a little bit more so I can drive all the way to the edge of the hill in my truck and overlook the beauty of Arkansas . Yeah , you've got a beautiful site , it's a beautiful view .
You're on top of it . I needed like 20 more feet that I had to be able to drive on Sure . So all be able to drive on sure . So all I did yesterday for about an hour and a half pick up gravel , haul it up , go up , go back down . I did , I did like I don't know 10 or 12 loads like that .
This dude is so great , oh , he is so wonderful . You know , you don't really . I , I don't think you're gonna have much road noise as high off the road as you are , not when you're up top . Okay , you're not gonna have that much noise , except for the air brakes .
Or the rednecks that come by the Jake brakes . Either the Jake brakes or the Billy old Billy Badass comes by .
He's got the giant diesel dually with the aftermarket exhaust on it .
Yeah , it's the exhaust , it's not the dually and they just on it . Yeah , it's the exhaust , it's not the dually , and they just rev it . He had a dude . The pop-back man came by you love this Came by , picked up one of the contractors at my place that were working . His car or something broke down so he had to get a ride .
This dude that comes and drops them off right to get them back . His car or something broke down and so he had to get a ride . This dude that comes and drops them off right to get them back to his car it was like it had to have been , I think it was like 5 o'clock in the evening , it was in the summer Drops them off , no big deal .
This dude that dropped them off continues to do just starts peeling out right there on on this on the highway , does like four donuts . It is a souped up hot rod like you know 1990 freaking transam or whatever . I mean just .
I mean just just tear it up , just wrap , just for no reason , and then then almost runs off the freaking embankment throwing gravel right in my driveway . Man , totally Complete , completely unnecessary . But at the same time there's a part of me that goes that's awesome .
You know , my last house in Boston . I lived in Dover , mass . I was right on the Charles River . My next door neighbor was Pierre DuPont V and the guy across the street from me owned a shopping mall in Bangkok , just to give you the idea of the neighborhood , anyway . So I used to always hang out at this one bike shop , you know , motorcycle shop .
I'd go there at lunch and work on my bikes and stuff . They did a lot of stuff it was great with . It would take me back , I could just escape for an hour , yeah , and I had my own stand over there and all it was just awesome . So they had this one guy , chuck chuck was like 28 , you know , total screw up , yeah , good motorcycle mechanic , yeah .
And so one night it's like 11 , 30 quarter to 12 , and I hear this in the evening , yeah , yeah in the evening , and I hear this out in front of my house there's some guy out there doing burnouts on his motorcycle , you know . And then like 15 minutes later I get chuck chuck's texting me , you know , did you hear that ? Yeah , I did .
Dude , hey , you're not cool , really class in the neighborhood back to old , but kind of cool .
Well , anyway , we got to talk about something serious today yeah , our big , our big topic today is , uh , entrepreneurship and family , basically , I mean , I forget what we call it exactly , but yeah , that's what it's all about . It's , uh , the official your family and your business . Yes , okay . So that's a yes , that's a big topic .
I got a little history quote here that I think goes along with this , but it's not going to make sense right off the gate , but I think that as our discussion goes on , it'll make some sense .
¶ Late Night Productivity and Multitasking
One of my favorite quotes by any entrepreneur of all time was by none other than John D Rockefeller . Right , I know you love him . Yeah , I mean he's a champion . Yeah , Period Right .
But he said you're the John D Rockefeller of today .
Come on , baby . You're just egging me on , dude . He said I have trouble sleeping . I have trouble going to sleep every night with the amount of debt that I owe . Are you listening this morning ? Okay , because I know you can't multitask I am listening .
He's got trouble sleeping because of his debt . Yeah , I've been there okay .
He says I have trouble going to sleep every night because of the amount of money that I owe other people . Right , I think you gave us this quote before I probably did , but then I wake up looking to borrow more . Yeah , isn't that beautiful .
I love it , it's true , so but for does does midnight heebie-jeebies that you get , oh 2 am , oh dude it's always during the night time . The other night I woke up I swear , just like you're talking about . It was like 2 am . Oh , dude , it's always during the night time . The other night I woke up I swear , just like you're talking about .
It was like 2 am , yeah , and I just started making lists of all the things that I have to do and all the decisions that need to be made . That's a smart move .
So did you . Let's just like so . You're sleeping . Of course you're beautiful when you're sleeping .
Oh , yeah , when you sleep , I know , no , yeah , you know . I mean you're beautiful like , you're an angel , like all 67 year old guys . I got my flannel jammies . Oh , you're looking good . Yeah , right , obviously . Yeah , the tops at least match the bottoms , but yeah perfect man .
So you're looking good , sleeping beautifully . You wake up at 2 am , start thinking about all the stuff you did , like literally what did you do ? Did you ? Did you get up and out of bed and then go work on your task list ? Did you lay there , get on your phone and start adding ?
tasks . Well , first off , I got up because , you know , being an old guy with a prostate condition , you mean every time you wake up you got to go take a leak , okay , thankfully I've got a urinal in my master bath and I can just kind of lean against the wall . Okay , I don't have to be too precise . Um , so I'm sorry .
I'm sorry listeners , one of the questions .
Then I went back to bed and sat there that way and did my work and you but on , but on your phone , yeah , yeah , so you just started writing down the tasks of shit . Yeah , get done .
Yes , for the next day . Yes , decisions that need to be made and tasks that need to be done . Just a just in a bullet point list .
Yep , just on your notes on your phone . Yep , yep . No sophisticated AI system . No , just write the shit down .
And then last night I just went back through and re-edited my list of everything I got done yesterday .
Did you check the things off ? Yes , I did , of course . So when you check them off , does it auto go down and that goes down to a completed task thing ? Yeah , of course . So you just have one note that's just constantly being added to and checked off . That's right . I just always find this so amazing .
Like to me , like the hardest thing about business is how do you , how are you organized , how do you do all the things that you get done , plan to get them all done , but you're kind of like this you have this interesting way of doing things , like where you just knock it off , like it's I didn't move fast .
I do . I mean I can make a decision and I move fast . I still can be there at 7 30 watching , you know , um the diplomat or the epi , if you haven't seen the Billy Bob Thornton show Landman , oh the Landman , yeah , I've been watching it . Oh , I figured you must love Billy Bob Thornton . Okay , I mean it .
But you know , yeah , no , I still have plenty of time to do all the other stuff that I want to do .
So but you watch shows and you do your list . Yeah , you just kind of keep knocking shit off , absolutely Dude . I remember one time , a long time ago , when I worked with you this is why I'm white , yeah , and you were . I mean , you'd always come in . It's sitting in your office , right , and I'd already be there . Of course I'd beat you in the morning .
Yeah , we were good . I never should have let you go , but anyway should have chained you to your desk but should have chained you to your desk .
That's right . But you come in and you would have your computer , your big desktop here and your laptop and stuff . But then you you'd lean back in your chair like this and you just get on your blackberry and you just sit there and just start cranking off emails .
And I remember you'd always like there'd be multiple times this one time in particular you're like oh my God , I have 350 effing emails . What the hell is going on ? And you're just killing them off . You're sitting there and you would tell me I don't know how I'm going to get through with this and you're just trying to talk to me as you're doing it .
And then I pulled out my phone and I started seeing an email . I was like , does it bother you when you get so many emails ? And you get it and you go . You reply back , yes , and I'm like , and you hate it when people respond to you and keep you on reply ? You know , reply to reply to all , reply to all . I'll reply back and ask you that .
You know like , is this bothering you ? I mean more times while we're sitting here , while we're , I have to ask . I mean , you got so freaking , you just got so irate about that . It was hilarious . To me , though , it's funny to watch you react .
You know you can get a lot done and I mean we're going to talk today a little bit about balancing family and work and all , but I mean , just like this morning , you know I get a texting with Grant . Yeah , jim is first thing every day . Okay , he's grand . He's the first person I talked to , usually the last person I talked to . Yeah , he's like .
We got this resume , check this out . You know , when we're looking for somebody in the business and , um , we ran an ad yesterday and we had a bunch of resumes . They weren't very good , because this one looks really good . I looked at it and like you're right , contact her . He goes . Yeah , if you want to .
So , boom , I immediately sent an email out to the woman like I'd love to talk with you today . And you know she responded and I've got that set up . But I mean that was like in between the time I threw my jammies down into the dirty clothes laundry chute that we have at our house just the greatest feature there ever was .
It just drops your laundry right into the laundry room down below . And you know , and I had , and I turned my shower on and waiting for it to warm up , like and you're on your phone tech yeah , I'm not , I was not just on my phone .
I mean , I got the resume , I looked at the resume , I asked grant if he wanted me to contact and I sent the email out before I ever even got in the shower . That all took place in about 75 seconds . It's beautiful , okay . I mean people can do more than they do .
Yeah , okay , yeah , this , this whole idea of you know , well , I do this one job and I can't do anything else . I just had this conversation with one of my former students last night who owns a business . Yeah , okay , and he's's it .
So he's had the business for , let's say , two years and he's already trying to get out of it and hire manager and all these other people . It's like , well , I just want to , I just want to be the owner of it while I work on this other thing . I'm like you can't too early . Okay , I'm going to give you some old man advice right now .
You can , can't do that . That's a recipe for disaster . Stepping out that early . I said you need to do both of your jobs . It's just the reality to it .
You can do both of them and do them both well , hey , I hate the fact of that , and you've been there . You know how many times I've tried to kind of not do as much . You know how many times I've tried to not be engaged , not participate in decisions and I still , I mean that's like a , that's kind of a , I don't know .
It's an interesting thing , seriously , like the thought process that we have . I guess it's baked into our brain through all the systematic education .
All the big societal type of the culture , yeah , old type of the culture , the culture , yeah , and you you're beating your head , you know , and your advertisements that you see all the time are people chilling , relaxing , enjoying life , taking the easy path , all is well . You're . Take a pill for that , you take a pill for this . You know everything's good .
It's just not the truth . It's not , it is . We are 100 in man From the day you're born to the day you die . Damn it . And whenever I get in that mindset I'm like , oh well , cool , that's how I'm supposed to do it , and so I've learned to go that all the other shit is a lie .
But , eric , here's the thing . You don't need to do that you could decide right now . I'm never going to work again . I'm going to live whatever was within my means , and I'm sure yours would be pretty good . Okay , as could I , all right , although I'm not as well off as you are . But we still choose . We still choose to work like that . It's yesterday .
I was all day at this house . We bought down the street , unscrewing stuff on walls and cutting into drywall , looking for wires and stuff , and I'm like why am I doing this ? I don't need to do this . Why , and we put all this money into it ? Should we really put all our money into that ? It's a lot of money .
Why do we ?
keep spending money on that , you know .
Every time you spend more money on something , it has more work for you to do , but the reality to it is it's the way we're wired , is it ?
It is , we're going to keep working like that . Look , here's the truth for our listeners , and you know this is true . And there's if you want to be successful , you must be a obsessed with what you're doing . Obsessed , super critical , not just like I do it .
If I , you know , I do it because I have to , or I do it because that's what I think I'm supposed to do . You got to be obsessed , yeah . And secondly , you need to put the time in , yeah , okay , yeah , it does take time . And see , there will be trade-offs . I mean , I don't know anything else , any other way to do it .
I'm going to be obsessed , I'm going to work my ass off and there's going to be trade-offs . Here's the thing , mark .
Okay , the reality is you're going to do that till the day you die , because guess what ? That's who you effing are . That is who you are , that's what your mark is on the earth , that is your re-gift and your responsibility to your bloodline . I mean , like there's a like . What's the point , honestly ?
What is the point of living on this earth and not doing everything that you possibly can to contribute , to make things better .
Yeah , to make things Like , do you ?
really think that you're designed and born here on this earth so that you can just chill out bro . Consume consume resources , just suck up air , just chilling man , just chilling , you know , trying to always work hard to find the easiest way and make People aren't happy . No , they're miserable . They're not happy Because , guess what ? You're working for something .
That's a freaking lie and , by the way , you were designed to struggle just like every other effing freaking insect , animal , weed , sunrise , raindrop on the entire freaking planet . And the truth , that's the truth everything struggle . That's why I love nature . You know what I love about working on the land . You can go out there and you clean this .
Now , I'm not talking about freaking shady valley , okay , and I can say shady valley , which , because I live there I call it shallow valley or shallow or no , but it's I see , right , yeah , it's a beautiful gated , you know , whatever nice lawns like , I'm not talking about that , but even then it's still some truth .
But you can go out in the woods , clear clean , take off . You know , get limit trees , limit trees , take care . I mean , you look at it's like damn , that looks nice . Yeah , I swear to you . And then you come , you come back two months later and it's just like . It's like all the weeds and the tears of branches are on the ground , they're freaking .
I mean just so true , it's a constant state that you're in Constant chaos , constant cleanup , constant championship .
Yes , he who works harder wins , and there's pride in that , there's honor in that , there's legacy in that , there's satisfaction . There's satisfaction in that Gratification . I get it . It's hard man , like dude , like
¶ Navigating Work and Family Balances
literally . When we talk about work-life balance here , or integration , this is literally how I kind of think of it . Well , this is just the reality that happens to me . I work as hard as I possibly can until I can't , right , and then I take a break , right , and then I come back and continue to work hard .
It's like , exactly , it's kind of like training for a freaking race . You know , do you go out there ? Can you really run a good race and win ? If you kind of you just walk the mile , or do you have to jog it ?
And if you can't jog the whole thing that one time , you still have to do as hard as you have to push and push and push and push , yes , in order to win yeah , so you just work until you're freaking tired , right like I've been . I've tricked myself , I've tried to balance things and I've tried to take time off .
Only thing that I've found by taking time off is that I become worthlessly lazy and I start falling into this pattern of society that where I start seeing myself I'm like who the hell am I like that ? Am I gonna wither and die here ? I'm just getting fatter , you get depressed .
I get depressed . Just when we had all that storm and everything , I was just laying around the house and one day I like slept later because , of course , I was up in the middle of the night . But I'm like , I'm just like what , why am I ? You know what's wrong with me ? This is terrible , terrible .
Okay , they got my butt back in gear and started getting stuff done . But yeah , yeah , you have to do it , man , it's , it's so true . So , yeah , I mean you know the the . It's funny you say that because last night in the middle of the night , again , I was up and I was responding .
Company I'm involved with , yeah , on the board , one of the owners minor , minor of , but anyway , the CEO is texting me about our banking relationship that we have and you know I'm immediately was sending out emails to respond to him . The CFO and then a guy that's helping us find a new bank out there and uh , and so he's like what ?
He's just God bless , what ? What are you doing ? She goes you're always on your phone these days . You know , I'm like this is important , we're down to survival here . Okay , that's when you kick in baby , it's like I'm not gonna wait .
What am I gonna wait till I get up and take my shower and then go do my drive to deliver the kid to school , then go to my podcast and then meet my contractors . Then maybe , if I remember , I'll do it . No , this is going to be dealt with now , okay . Boom . It's not going to take me forever , though .
No , no , it's not a big deal , okay so , on the balancing with the family , yeah , here you are , crazy train doing work in the middle of the night and your wife like there is something like you have to navigate that I'm getting better at navigating , sure .
We're both on wife number three . Well , okay , you're two . I'm sorry . Yeah , that's right . Yeah , I mean I get a little bit more . Okay , yeah , you're two . I'm sorry . Yeah , that's right . Yeah , I mean I get a little bit more . Okay , yeah , well , at least you made a better decision on number two , but anyway , I'll leave that alone .
But you know , there is something about , like there is this tension between an entrepreneur who is living the life that we're talking about here , of winning , you know , of work for all the things that we talked about . Not because we're trying to make things easier , we're actually complicating things .
Exactly On a daily basis .
Yeah , you're right . I mean , I can only imagine like I frustrate my wife and like literally all the time . Honestly , if I'm going to be honest with myself and everybody on the planet , if my wife is in this I'm sorry , babe , I know I frustrate you . I cannot help it , though . Sure , I cannot help it because we're always there's sin .
Every time I talk to her about any decision I'm making in business like I actually had a conversation with her a couple days ago about some important decisions she's like and her comment was I don't like that idea , because what you're telling , what I , what I , what's going to happen is you're going to do that and that's just going to open up opportunities for
more ideas that you have and you're going to start something else . And I'm like no , no , no , babe , that's not . You know that's not going to happen this time . You know that's not what I'm trying to do . But she's right , because that's what always happens .
Sure , like anytime that there's a little space , you're going to fill it , and then some , I know , I swear I did , I get it a hundred percent . But you know , I think we talked about this before on the show , though , and we also did with our spouses . You know , your situation with your spouse , and mine is totally different .
My wife did own her own business . Yeah , she came out of a family that had multiple businesses , yes , and she , she really understands , like she does not complain . Yeah , you know , and she can also make a financial decision very quickly without a lot of delay , which I love .
Yeah , like yesterday , I had to ask her about something that it's no big deal , but it was helping somebody out and co-signing for a $200,000 loan , and immediately she said , yes , there was just no hesitation at all . Yes , we need to do that .
She has to make sure that there's some language in there that the bank will release us from that guarantee that co-signing when certain events occur . But I'm just saying it helps to be with somebody who had that orientation . Oh for sure I can't say I had prior to yeah , yeah , well , certainly my last one , my first wife .
She grew up with me from the time we were 18 , so she certainly understood that stuff more .
I think that Tara's highly supportive . She's my number one champion supporter .
You have been , she is because you proved that you were right . Well , true , that does help you give credibility with her .
I do think that there's this difference of personalities . I think that we all kind of go through that . Right , an entrepreneur does have a really different personality . Like I'd have a hard time finding people that I can really relate to in life in a lot yeah , especially in the business sense like , yes , you know , I , like you know , I I'm .
I'm not a polished business person , I'm not a financially astute , you know all these different things and so . But that's also the same thing in personal things too . Yeah , you know . So when it comes to family and business , you know you have to be .
You know , I feel like that I have to navigate quite a bit and and kind of bring myself down to not down , bring myself over to a a realistic type of family environment . I have to see that and that's my responsibility . Yeah , no , I understand what you're saying .
If I don't , I'm like I'm way , way , like dude , I just don't , I don't think about it , yeah , ever . That's terrible .
I love my girl . No , listen , dude , absolutely , dude , I know you do . I love my girl . No , listen , dude , absolutely I know you do . I love everyone . Listen , and I've thought about that too . Sometimes that's terrible . Am I failing as a father ? Yeah , am I not understanding enough ? Do I not spend enough time with my children ? Yeah , yeah , yeah .
All the things that I think we all are probably going to think at some point . Yeah , but then I also realized this I had a conversation with my 18-year-old daughter recently . I don't know if I mentioned this on the show , but it was in the last couple weeks and it was all about taking risk and getting ahead . And you know , she was just contrasting .
Like , you know , her mom's a teacher and her mom's husband is a teacher . Yeah , and you know they're . They know what they're going to make every month , right , they know when they're off and they're responsible . Okay , I mean , they're responsible people . It's not like they don't pay their bills or anything like that .
But you know , at the same time , I'm sure there's some level of envy or thought , and not that it's even been expressed to me . Yeah , but like , why do they have so much ? Well for you ? Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , and you know well , you know they've got whatever . All right , and this sort of comes across to the kids All right .
And so , you know , I I had this conversation with my daughter . I guess the point I'm trying to make is I told her that the only way you're going to get ahead is if you take risks and you work really hard . Okay , yeah , I'm not .
You know , I don't have the job where I stop at four o'clock on Friday and then I'm just off until Monday and I don't even engage at all . Okay , you understand what I'm talking about . I said that means you know you gotta stay engaged . You're , you're working .
There's things that come up that you have to do , right , yeah , and there's chances that you have to take . You don't take any stupid chances . Yeah , you always think about what happens if this goes wrong . Can I afford to lose that ? Or what's my plan B bailout position ?
You know you're constantly making that decision , but at the same time , you're investing in things . You're planting these seeds . Everything's investing , it's all about the investment and when you have enough of those , something's going to work out . Something works . Something works . It's inevitable . The odds are in your favor . This is what people don't understand .
They think we take a lot of risks , but really we don't .
Actually we're making a lot of risks , but really we don't . Actually we're making a lot of investments .
We're minimizing risks by not being dependent on this one thing .
I love that statement . That is such a good topic because that's where a lot of the misunderstanding comes in . You know , I mean like you know , I think from and here we are listeners . We're talking about entrepreneurs , right , we're not talking anything about anybody else . Negative pros , cons doesn't matter .
No , exactly Trying to really understand ourselves in the way we think , because I'm with you a hundred percent , every single decision that I make , every day , all day , I'm thinking of investing , right , my time , any resources . Yeah , you know , like people would call me lunatic because of my equipment that I bought , guess what ?
There are assets , right , you don't say I know , I already know that I'm not gonna get a hundred percent . I'm that's not an F , it's not a a . You know a graduating asset or whatever I'm trying to say , an appreciating asset . I know that , I know that skid steer is not going to return me back more money , but what it will do is it will hold value .
I get to use it . I save the money on the time of labor , of stupid shit that I can do myself , like smoothing out , freaking gravel how complicated is that it's not . But it also helps me relax , it reduces my stress , all these things , but I still have active . Yeah , yes , it's productive , it gets things done , and then I have something .
At the end there's an asset still there and , by the way , it's freaking 0% financing ?
Yeah , I know . Why shouldn't you take advantage of ?
that , but that's a good example . But everything that I think about everywhere I go , I'm thinking about that investment that's being made to minimize risk in case shit hits the fan , in case that bank goes out , in case this business sucks and fails , or that decision or some .
You know , there's always somebody , there's always someone or something coming after you to take what you got .
I'm telling you , you it's so true and and you know , and , and it's funny you say that because I was talking to my students about that is the first week of classes and I said don't get confused when it comes to debt . That is for things that make money , as opposed to debt is for things that are just pure consumption . Yeah , there's a big difference .
Okay , I've had a ton of debt at one point in my life , but it was all stuff that was making me money . I mean I don't finance my cars , okay . I mean I'm just saying I'm not that . I haven't ever . Yeah , yeah , as I have in the past . Yeah , I don't , you know , because the cars don't make any money , right .
I mean , you know , it's a , it's just a cost to appreciate . Yeah , I mean like if you got the cash , use the cash but if you can lease a vehicle for business , that's fine too , because you're just paying for it , whatever .
But my point is like stuff that makes you money , yeah is worth going in the hole for , yeah , or could make you money , and there's a big distinction there .
Well , that's a good point , Because debt like even to the quote I gave in the very beginning right that debt , that conversation you have one person Rockefeller , the husband who is continuously thinking about new ways to borrow more money and then he has problems sleeping . There is a wife in that story that he didn't talk about .
Nobody talks , but there's a wife there that is not understanding what the hell and why he's doing what he's doing .
Yes , but he's borrowing more in and you might have to borrow that debt to continue , like I did use credit cards , whatever the hell it took , because it's not because I'm taking more risk in , in , in , in living in debt , it's because I'm investing in my business .
You got across the goal line , didn't you ? That's exactly , it got you across the goal line , but that right there is for the payday .
It is so it can be . That's where the stress comes in between family and running your business , because it really is . How do you you as an entrepreneur navigate that like ? It's not an easy thing . Like you , you know you're sitting there , I'm . You know my case .
I was investing , investing , investing in business and borrowing , borrowing more money , going more deeper in debt , ridiculous interest rates .
But I've got to be able to eat , I've got to be able to do these things that I need to take care of the family myself and survive , and no one can understand that this business that I'm over here just drowning in this blah blah , blah , whatever it might be , and I'm always busy , like what we've been talking about . You're on your phone constantly .
You never are off , but you're driving . You know that is not a normal scenario
¶ Teaching Entrepreneurship and Family Values
. Yeah , for what we've been taught , how the bankers have educated us on how you run your finances .
Yeah , to what the scholastic you mean you don't always have six months worth of operating expenses in the bank account , right ?
I mean , I love those things For all those Ks and IRAs I love those .
It's like how naive is that ? Yeah , insurance , who runs their business is a true entrepreneur that's operating with six months worth of cash in the bank .
It just doesn't . If I had six months worth of cash , I'd be like what the hell am I going to spend that on ? To grow this thing Exactly ?
You're going to reinvest that Because your return on invested capital has got to be high . You don't want to let sit there and do nothing for you .
Let's worthless money , unless I'm getting paid some ridiculous interest rate . But now I'm in the banking business , right , I'm in the lending business .
Hey , even the high interest rates , nothing compared to what you'll make on your own business , oh dude , your return on invested capital People don't know it could be . Massive Return on equity , oh capital , people don't have to be . Massive return on equity , oh my god . Return on invested capital is really what matters .
But yeah , just looking at return on equity , yeah , I mean , I , the first 13 years of swag white , we averaged over 50 . Okay , for 13 years in a row , there's no interest rate that's going to pay you 50 .
no , that's , that's absolutely no , no , and I don't want to see . If you look at the best investments that have ever been made , it's always been business , sure , you know ?
I mean like it's always , and it's always the people that are making that , that , taking that sacrifice and driving that as the entrepreneur but again , knowing , you know , just for our listeners they don't know you as well as I do you always live cheap .
oh , yeah , not have . You did not have like needs , yeah , for ego gratification or luxury , or you know it's status symbols no , you just didn't spend your money like that . No , I mean , you were extremely thrifty all along . Well , I was just putting it back in the business , yeah , and that's what it takes .
Again , we're back to what it doesn't take to be successful balancing stuff with your family , and this is another thing . Talking about family , you know , there's one way to be a good parent , right , is you're always there . You take your kid to every soccer game . You never miss whatever . I think I actually did a pretty good job on that .
Yeah , thanks to having my own business . That's one of the benefits Flexibility , man , flexibility , right . However , I'm sure I could have done a better job we all could have . But what we also do as parents is provide an example . What's the value of that to our children ? It's the greatest . The example of you can take on difficult things and succeed .
Yeah , okay , it takes hard work to get ahead . Yeah , okay , that's an example that I think our children need , and maybe they don't get that from all their other parents , or our siblings , or the culture you know , or their friends . We provide that . So we're not all bad , I guess , is what I'm saying ? No , not at all . We're , you know . We're just different .
Yeah , we're different . It's not about the money , it's not . The money is a byproductproduct . Yep , it's absolutely a byproduct . It's nice , but it's a byproduct . But we provide an example to our children and we teach them , um , that they can overcome obstacles and they can achieve whatever they set their mind to .
And you don't have to know everything to jump into something . No , you don't you know , just do it , you do it . That's how you learn .
Best way to learn Do it Just do it , man , and I mean that's such a good point because you know , I think that when I look at me as a father , you know , and how my contribution is . I mean spending time talking and giving them the real education of life is like my biggest contribution .
I mean it's not going to be any money , it's not going to be any assets or whatever it is . Yeah , and I try to articulate this to the girls I'm like If I would have been told some of these things when I was in my teenage years .
My dad was not good with this stuff .
I don't think really any parents really are , but my lesson learned is girls , look shit's hard . The hardest worker wins . Work faster , longer , smarter or better . I don't know which one , but one of those four . You should be able to think about it any time . Maybe two or three of those four .
You'll really be able to do that .
Exactly . Be a hugely exclusive , be a freaking champion . Quit complaining . You're the one that has to face that no one's going to be here to save you is another great one . No one told me those things .
Well , that's I know , unfortunately , I think I don't know about your case , but you know my kids , particularly the younger ones , have had too much . Yeah , yeah , okay , it's too easy , too easy , that's a big problem . The oldest one , you know , she was there during a lot of the struggle and it's absolutely part of her personality . She totally reflects that .
Why are we , as human beings , trying to make it so easy for somebody else ? There's some deserving reward for that and there's not . We want love . We want love , we want it easy , we want it convenient , we want to be safe All these things we're trying to act like the fear doesn't really exist .
But what the result of a human being with all that coddling is the most is the worst type of person . It's true , there's no honor in them .
You know all those types of things , but I mean from a family perspective , though I think , like what you know , what I would , what my experience has shown me is that you have to know , like and I messed up on this for for the first 15 , 20 years , I'm still messing up , but what I've learned is is that I am , I do and I am a different thinking type
person , which can drive conflict if I'm unaware of who I am . Yeah , and it's not about me trying to change who I am or be different or act different or come down from wherever my thinking is Like . Actually , that's why I'm loved is because I'm thinking this goofy shit or whatever .
Right , it is real crazy a lot of times , right , you know , I mean I don't understand it a lot of times myself , but it's about being aware of that , that that is like it's okay for me to participate and I need to be more conscious because it's for , you know , it's for my partnership , like my partner is , and my family's supporting me and tolerating me a
lot of things , right . I need to be able to return that in some way , right , and I think that , um , well , you know , I think that that's like , if you're unaware as an entrepreneur , you're going to find yourself in a lot of we need to be understanding of them absolutely they need to be understanding of us . Yeah , I I'm tolerant of this really is what .
Yeah , it comes down to yeah , there were a couple other things they wanted us to talk about here , evolving family members in your business
¶ Navigating Family Dynamics in Business
. I'm just going to speak about that for a minute because I know I always had a no nepotism policy . The first time I owned my company , yes . The second time around , you hired my oldest daughter as a part-time writer .
Yes , okay , yes , she was getting her English degree . Super talented , freaking , hard worker .
She got that and then she ended up she had a real estate license and her horse farm and then she went and got her MBA and then she ended up working for the company full-time in an MBA job , all right , and she did that for 10 years . A couple of years ago she left and went full time into her own horse business .
But my point of all that is , you know , she felt bad when she wanted to leave , that she was like letting me down . Yeah , like , what are you talking about ? Yeah , like what are you talking about ?
Yeah , I think for years , truthfully , I was so conscious of the fact she was my daughter and I never wanted anybody to claim that she got something she didn't deserve . I probably did not treat her or reward her as highly as I should have . Oh sure , I went the opposite way . Some parents do the opposite .
They take their kid their kid's an idiot , not a hard worker . They promote them . They make them the boss of everybody . Everybody hates that person . Okay , they're a huge morale drain on the company . Maybe even they ruin the business . I didn't want to do that .
I really didn't . You were constantly conscious of that . Oh gosh , when it ends up . Probably like she did not probably did her a disservice .
Yeah , it's true and truth , and I had no , when she wanted to leave and do her own thing . I'm like absolute . She thought I'd be up . I'm like , I'm not upset with you at all . No , this is your life . You have to do what you want to do . You're not letting me down ?
Yeah , in any way , shape or form , but I do think parents need to think really hard before they bring their kids into their business .
Yeah , yeah yeah , I've had , um , a couple of my girls you know work for , yeah , for podcast videos , part-time sure you know , and but but there is like like what I've done in that situation is like I'm you need to go interview with so-and-so , they'll hire you , they work with them 100% . Don't talk to me , I'll see you when I come walking in .
You know what I'm saying ? Right , a lot of space between you and them .
Yeah , I think that's good , for sure . Yeah , but your girls , they're not going to come in here and start like berating and somebody else or act like , well , this is my dad's company and I'm superior . No , they wouldn't do that . Yeah , some people do that . Yeah , that's bad and that's really bad . You can't let your kids do stuff like that .
It's just very harmful to morale . I think a lot of companies you know the majority of businesses in this country are family businesses . They employ more than one family member in the business . It's like 90% . It'd blow your mind if you realize how high that percentage of businesses are family businesses in the United States .
But you know , I do think you need to be thinking hard about what those roles are . Are you putting people in management positions that are unequipped ? What's the effect it has on your other employees ? At the same time , you know you want to give your kid the chance to learn something from you and be involved with the business .
But it's got to be an appropriate role , yeah , and they've got to act appropriate . Or it's got to be an appropriate role , yeah , and they've got to act appropriate , yep , or it's going to be a problem .
The other issue is husbands and wives that work together in the business , and I've experienced that too , although really not not until recently , you know , but that can be very challenging .
Oh sure , and I think you know what I've learned there about the people who've done that successfully it always means that you have very distinct roles with no overlap you have to , in the inflate of each other , own those roles and trust .
Yes , just like having a business partner . Yes , you can't have a business partner and not be trusting and agreeable and accommodating and listening and what all that type of stuff .
Yeah , yeah , it really is . And the worst thing again , I think , is where somebody owns a business and then the spouse comes in and they're not involved with it , but then they start acting as if they're the boss oh yeah , Like they're making the decisions .
Yeah , that's very toxic . Yeah , that would be toxic . It is Toxic , toxic . The other one was the emotional impact of entrepreneurship on family . Yeah , like , I mean .
The ups and downs , the ups and downs . I think it's the instability that we create . Sure Is the problem .
Yeah , sure is , is , is is the problem , yeah , and I think that that really just . I mean , like you know , today it's much better than what it was . You know , you know , I don't know , man , part of me is like , I mean , let me , can I be honest ?
Yeah , please , of course , I think what you know , I think , like in my experience , like in all honesty as an entrepreneur , I would recommend and this is what I have done and I still do . I don't talk about everything .
You know what I'm saying ? Yes , I understand , because it puts a burden on people . They don't have the same makeup you have . I don't walk in the house , I've been guilty of that ?
No , I have too . I've been guilty of that . Yeah , no , I have too . I figured out that that wasn't , but I don't walk in the house carrying my business shit . Yeah , there is , and I mean , maybe that's a unique thing , because I don't think that everybody does that . Right , I've gotten better over the older I got .
I definitely did that like when I'm around them , my family yeah , I really don't . I don't , I don't talk about it , I don't share things that are going on . Yeah , if I'm asked about , I'm also pretty cautious about how far I go into it . Yeah , you're smart .
Well , because because I , like you , can there's a lot of things that can trigger , first of all , business . The reason why we are so busy and overwhelmed and constantly work is because there's always more shit that needs to be done . There's not enough time to do what we do .
And so if you have a little problem seemingly a little problem in business , there's not an easy , one bullet point answer to it . You just need to do A and B will happen . It's never that simple .
And so if you're talking about your business or your family and you bring up anything like well , we had to borrow $20,000 more to cover payroll , to you as an entrepreneur , you're okay because you know what you're doing , you're investing all the time .
Everything's going to be all right because you're going for it , right , right , but to your partner , they're like holy shit . I know you just borrowed more money for that . When is that going to ?
I mean like they don't have the same frame of reference . No , they can't have the same frame of reference . No , they can't have the same personality . I've I've been guilty of that before . I mean I think it's a fine line , though at the same time , yeah , you also need to try to educate them , of course .
Yeah , if you totally insulate them and they have absolutely no sense of any of this , then maybe they'll go waste resources , or maybe they won't . They , maybe they won't understand this when they get older . Yeah , okay , yeah , I mean I , I , so it is , there's a fine line .
I definitely was too far toward dumping everything out when I was younger and and I'd be much less inclined to do that today . Yeah , yeah , you got to navigate that but , but it is kind of funny , you know , like there was something one of my kids said and I'm like no , we we're just , we can't afford that , we're not going to spend our money like that .
And then so we were at the dinner I think it was Christmas Eve or whatever and I had the , my extended family and brother and sister-in-law and I can't remember who all was there , and I'm like you know , give me the bill for it , because I always get the one that gets the bill .
I mean , you know that is probably as your kids get older you'll find that's the case . Oh , I get . No , it doesn't matter how many of them there are . No , I get the bills , you're gonna get the bill . And and especially if you feel like you know employees , you know they're struggling to get by or whatever yeah , you know what I mean .
So , yeah , you know , and one of my kids , like dad , are you sure we can afford that ? You know what I'm like . Yeah , yeah , I go . You don't want to say that here . First and secondly , yes , we can . This is true . This 400 dinner , whatever five , it's not gonna break us , don't ?
worry about it was the other thing . For the reason that you're wanting to get it right right , there's no investment to what you're wanting . There is no return . At least you know what I mean . At least , if I buy the family's dinner , there's investment into the family . Right that ? That's what I think . I always think an investment .
It is , but I'm just saying that's the illustrates kind of what you're saying . It's like you say anything to them .
They don't have the full frame of reference and they don't really they could cause them undue stress , absolutely that that you know that the same time , I do want my kids to be conscious of not just wasting and thinking , oh my God , it's just like because again , I mean I go back and I'm not trying to .
You know , I don't want to say anything bad about any prior spouse I had . Yeah , I think , sure , with somebody who has zero entrepreneurial background and zero entrepreneurial history or education provided to them by their parents , is that they don't understand . They think , you know , at least my experience was they think you're either rich or you're poor .
If you're rich , you buy anything you want , anytime , and if you can't afford that , what are we what ? No , there's this huge swath in the middle , you know what I mean .
You might be poor today , you may be rich tomorrow . You may be rich today and poor tomorrow , but if the entrepreneur understands that and just basically , you basically adapt and navigate that time period . That's all you do . Yeah , like dude , I love it whenever like it's like it's time for you know , it's like survival time to tighten up .
I love the time . I mean , you do better with a deadline , don't you ? Oh God , dude , yeah , yeah .
I'm the worst . I mean , I understand that , you know it has I have to know that meeting time and then I work right before . But I do really good work . You know it's like holy work . Under pressure , dude , I do man , I'm like holy shit . I got a lot of shit done . You know . Otherwise , I'm just kind of . You know I can flounder , I understand totally .
I had our editor this white letter say to me last week . It's like you know . I said I'm sorry , this is late . I got it through at like one in the afternoon instead of like eight in the morning , nine which I typically would . She goes , you know , if you ever have a problem , you can't get this done .
You know you can tell me and I'll pull out an old , we'll dust off an old article or whatever , and I said it's not going to happen , I will get it done . I will always get it done , unless I'm like dead or sick .
Even if I'm sick , I'll probably get it done . Dude , I've seen you so sick . I was thinking about the other day we went up to I can't remember where we were Chicago . We went to Chicago for that acquisition thing a long time ago and when we fly from there to there , from Northwest Arkansas , you're like man , I don't feel too good .
You know , by that evening when we get you were so freaking sick . I don't even remember this , I know you don't , but we were at the hotel and like , I mean , like dude , you were down at like eight o'clock that night and I mean , and then the next morning we had to be there at like you know 6am or whatever .
It's's early in the morning and I mean , dude , you were so incredibly sick , like you had full-blown , freaking head flu but you powered through , dude , it was so impressive . Like you were up . I hope I didn't get everybody else
¶ Spousal Input and Business Decisions
sick and you probably did . Oh my God , like you know , that was pre-COVID . That was before we were all aware of how people can get sick from each other . No , kidding .
I'm sorry if I did that . No , no , I mean I thought it was beautiful , but anyway , yeah , it's a tricky path we have to navigate with our families . It is .
It's just sensitive , right , and I think that you , as the the entrepreneur , being the person you are , if you're a business owner , you're starting , but if you never started one , you're about to start one you need to know , recognize the sensitivity of that and and cooperate and work through that like you can't be ignorant of it . That's the big thing .
I was ignorant as shit about it , yeah , how I was behaving and how I think in comparison , and I , and I do think if you're going to have a good relationship with your spouse , you do need to let them know when you're taking risks or making commitments that could impact them . I mean , I think it's only fair . Oh no , no , no , no , no , totally .
You know , yeah , without . Without is what it ? You know , yeah , what ?
obviously it just says yeah , hopefully you know , like I'm always afraid during the show that I'll say some shit that people you know won't completely understand , yeah , misinterpret , yeah for sure . Like I mean , I absolutely talked to my spouse . I've learned to even become and I'm still getting better but become even more transparent up front about things .
That , and mainly because I've recognized like she is a really excellent , she has great perspective 100 , and there's been so many times I should have listened and there's , you know I'm trying to I feel the same way about I mean , there's it's just , it's wonderful , such good instincts about yes told , oh dude .
Character judgment , yeah , it beyond always better than mine , 100% More skeptical , and again , I hate to generalize about women . People will be upset with me when I say this .
They are more skeptical , I think , because they have been hit on for lack of a better way to describe it and they're constantly making that descript , that judgment , that discrimination when they're young . They have to be discerning . Exactly they have to be discerning . I was never hit on . I know me neither .
I mean it was like if I was , I would have never known it . You know , no , but it's . But that's a good , that's a good point .
They get approached yes , they get approached and they've got to be discerning . I think that's a good point . They get approached . Yes , they get approached , and they've got to be discerning . I think that's a very good word and that generally makes them better judges of character than men . 100% .
Okay , 100% yeah , because there's been times where my wife's been like I don't like him .
Oh , I know my wife's . The same way I do not like him . I'm not going to say there was somebody , same way I do not . I'm not gonna . There was somebody , that's cool . There was somebody we both know , whose name I won't mention here . But my wife said oh my god , don't ever leave me in a room with that person alone .
Terrible okay , and I'm totally blind evil , evil yeah , I'm like what he said .
He thought he was okay . He's cool as hell man , he's okay . We're talking about going into business together my ex-wife too . I remember one guy came to visit me he was the chairman of this company and he is pretty much a degenerate , I will admit and my wife said to me afterwards she said , don't ever bring that guy back in our house again .
Wow , okay , very successful guy , yeah , and you want him back in the house . I don't know if I wanted him back in the house , but it's like don't ever bring that guy in the house again .
Well , I mean not after she said that , yeah , but you wanted it . I mean , like you know , because you're trying to do business .
Yeah , I was trying to help him out . Now , oh it's but . But uh , yeah , I mean it .
You know , sometimes our spouses are are good judges of character and we do need to listen to them absolutely and they're intelligent and they see things differently than we do , and that's value some insight I love it and it helps bolster my confidence too in a lot of ways .
Man , I mean that's , you're right . I mean like , especially , like you know , if I have an idea and I tell it to her and she's , she's got some skepticism or or some combat , combative dialogue against it . Yeah , not , you know . But or I guess what would you say ? Some , you know , just some response , just challenging , challenging .
Yeah , you know , I'll get pissed off at first , because my idea is always fantastic . No , but there's value in that right . Then I realize after the car I'm like , yeah , damn , that is really great .
And then now I'm balanced , I make great decisions , and then I have confidence when I walk up there and I go , this is the decision I'm 100% decisive about , there's like I feel very good . And if it doesn't , work out .
You can always well , you told , well , you told me . Yeah , exactly .
This is not my fault , this comes into our pure narcissism , you know ?
No , it's true , it's true . Well , hey , good show . It is a good show . We got to wrap it up . I feel better about myself and my family . Wait , good , I'm glad you do . We need to wrap it up . I I've got such a busy day today . I guess you don't want to spend any more time with me . I'd love to spend time with you , but I can't .
I've got a 1045 AM Zoom call . I've got to get on . I've got to get back home . It's been great being with you today . This has been another fun episode of Big Talk about Small-ass .
Business . Thank you , people .
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