¶ Beverage CEO Talks Small Business
hey , everybody , we're back again in the studio . Today . It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood . Definitely it's a 2025 . Now too , man , I know you believe that I'm ready . Jesus , I was born in 1958 . Good grief , I know . I said to my wife the other day I've got like an average of five more years to live .
Dang , I think you're going to make it . Mark , you think so .
I think you're going to do it . I know the shovel off the ground before you bounce like that . I don't know about that Hanging with the freaking .
I'm still eating a lot of french fries and smoking Lucky Strike , so my odds are not so good .
No , no , you okay hold on it's , it's , it's not it's .
Tell us what you did this morning , what your wife just called you about more my wife called me on the way here to tell me I used her towel this morning and said you're obviously very distracted , don't run into anybody . Quote , unquote , um , because I did have a little accident . You know last year what is your daughter's mini ? Oh , we're on in your car .
I totaled it , um , but other than that , when you said accident last year , I thought you were referring back to like a towel .
No , that you needed a towel . What are we talking about ? I thought you were talking about my 13-year-old Seriously , I'm just kidding which I'm way too old to have a 13-year-old . Let's face it . Oh yeah , because you only got five more years to live .
I mean , god , I'm blessed . You want to be mentioned for your 18th birthday . Oh jeez , I know .
Let's keep an eye on you two . Today , you guys are going to be laughing at me when I'm dead , which is funny , honestly , because I won't care so what ?
what could the podcast look like ? Like , let's say , you died , you know . Like , let's say , it's wednesday and you die , and then we do our podcast big talk on thursday . You would want me to do the podcast ? Oh , of course I would okay . Yeah , what would that episode need to be like , though ? Do you want me to do the podcast ?
Oh , of course I would Okay . What would that episode need to be like , though ? Do you want me to do anything special for you ?
No , there's no need to do anything special . A little cardboard cutout . I'd be self-conscious if you did that . It's an element I would say . I'd be like looking down , according to all those people who talk about dying . That would go into religion . No , religion , no , the near-death experiences are they lift up ? Yeah , see the ring .
Yeah , exactly , you say it's gonna be like big talk . I'll be like looking down here on you , eric . Maybe you'll have our guest today with you . Let's introduce him . Look , yeah , bring me back . We have dr jesse core with us today . Yeah , you know , recently got his ph . Congrats , man .
Man , I appreciate it . Or DBA , dba , I got my DBA . I knew that . I apologize , that's all right . It's no big deal , I appreciate it . It's kind of weird being called that right now Doctor , yeah , doctor , doctor and doctor , doctor .
We're going to come back to that , but before we do , this is another episode of Big Talk About Small .
Business . It's awesome , well one . I'm really excited you guys didn't give me the cue that I was supposed to come in on that . I'll do better next time .
Yeah , we do it at the end of the show too . I got that one .
You can be with us then , jesse . First of all , thanks for having me . I've that one . You can be with us then , jesse , you know . First of all , thanks for having me . I've always wanted to be on this show . It's pretty , pretty cool to be here , so thank you guys , you got it , man .
It is the biggest show about business on planet earth .
I agree , the biggest show about small business . Oh yeah yeah , I guess we're legends in our own minds over here , but no , having Jesse is going to be good , cause he's a fun guy to hang out with , yeah , you know . Um , jesse , tell us a little bit about yourself . You're obviously in the in the beverage business .
I can't just say beer business at this point . Right , what do you consider yourself Beverage ?
100% with uh , you know , with craft beer doing what crap beer is doing these days , which is going down . We transitioned to beverage several years ago , so it was a good move at that point . But , man , I'm keeping very , very busy and , like you , I'm happy as hell that 2024 is over . Good job , 2024 is good . Let's get going in 2025 .
So we got big plans coming up 2025 .
So tell us about yourself now . When did you start Core Brewing , or is it still called Core Brewing it ?
is . I mean , our DBA would be Scarletter Beverage Company , but you know the holding company is Core Brewing . I started that in 2009 .
¶ Crafting a Beer Business Journey
And the way I started I loved brewing craft beer as far back as 1992 . I grew up in Fort Smith , went to Fort Smith , northside , typical freshman at West Ark , I played baseball there and I had a microbiology class at 8 am in the morning and like most freshmen I was drinking beers and chasing girls .
And my professor pulled me aside one day and said Jesse , if you just get your ass to class , I'll teach you how to make beer . And that was in 1992 . And I'm like showing up to class , getting my work done and then just learned to love it . Then I moved from Fort Smith to Miami for a couple years . Denver three years , san Diego seven years .
What were you doing in those places ? Writing software , really .
I did not know that . Yeah , I was a software dude Wow , software , really . I did not know that . Yeah , I was a software dude Wow , you have such a varied background .
It was a cool time . You're a renaissance man . It was a cool time . So I , you know , back in the day we used faxes for resumes , right yeah , and I sent out 90 resumes and I got two offers One was Miami Beach , the other was Cleveland . Oh , that was hard , so yeah , what do you choose ?
I mean the mistake on the lake or Miami Vice right .
What's he going to do ? So I took my country ass down to Miami Beach right out of Fort Smith .
Were you well-received as a country person from Fort Smith down in Miami Beach .
Well , I don't know about all that . You're not so much a country person . Let's get real , that's true . That's not so much a country person , let's get real All right , that's true , that's not so much country .
More Fort's been north side yeah , that's true , not so much country . Hell , it was an eye-opening experience because I was able to get my car down there and I had $300 to my name and I'm like I'm rich . Yeah , you were . And pissing rain there we go with cussing already .
It's just pissing rain in Miami and I pulled in front of my apartment complex and there was just one spot . I couldn't see anything . So I pulled in at this spot . God , this is a godsend . I got my spot go out to my car , turns out , I parked in a handicapped spot as soon as I landed in Miami , cost me $300 .
There you go Back to ground zero .
So you know , I learned to love bologna yeah , bologna's a good , good product , uh , but anyway I scratched and clawed that , moved to denver for a few years in san diego , where I really started to learn about craft beer , and when I came back to arkansas I'm like there's just no good crap beer here .
So you're a program writer , a program engineer , but but then you're in craft beer . So I mean , I guess from your class in college you continue to learn to make craft beer , loved it and then and you kept doing that miami on the side and went to denver , did that on the side and I mean , is that kind of what's exactly ?
so you know , I'm pulling around my little trailer behind me with my honda civic and I left my couch couch in Denver so I could bring my homebrew system .
Absolutely yeah , let's have the priorities straight .
right , I mean my apartment in Denver or San Diego had pretty much like a futon and a homebrew system . That's what we had and I just learned to love it , you know . Then I got back to Arkansas . I was working at Tyson Great company . Tyson's a great company , people like working at Tyson .
It has a very good reputation as a place to work .
It is a good place to work , and I just had that entrepreneurial itch it's the only reason why I ever left . And I was on the city council of Springdale at that time and I got to know Rick Barrows , and Rick Barrows , the owner of Multicraft , a plus human being , yeah , multicraft construction company Right Big company , and Rick's an unbelievable guy .
And so I said , hey , rick , I want to give this thing a shot , this homebrews thing . And so he goes , all right , go squat in one of my little complexes over there , which is where now where the brewery's at Yep . And then you know , that happened 2009 . And then we just started going at that point . And then I got the itch .
When I went to a liquor store , I put my product in the shell and I was stocking it . Somebody came up and bought my beer right in front of me and I'm like that's it , that's it . I , I'm Ed . Yeah , you're doing what you were born to do . That was it , that was it , yeah . And so that's how Core Beer started .
So that's been a hell of a ride . So it's 2009, . So we're almost 15 years into this 16 years no 16 .
Now 16 .
Yeah , that's right Now , 16 . So tell us what happened . How did you do it ? Did you have to raise a bunch of money ? Or yeah , you did it on a shoestring , or what did you do ?
Well , you know one , I started off . Yeah , we raised some money . It was during the Great Recession , right , yeah . So I remember going to a banker and I had this really kick-ass business plan and I slid it across him and he just goes , goes . I can't hit you , you know , and that's what it was like the whole time . I couldn't raise crap , yeah , for money .
I just had to keep going bootstrapping and pull money out of my account , out of my bank , you know so , which my wife was just super excited about . Let's give up the eight hour days . You know the benefits , the 401k , and let's be entrepreneurs .
Yeah , that was an easy sell , no , and uh , so um , and then , you know , then I , then I got , then I started . I went to one of my former employees at tyson and he was the first investor in the business and , uh , started raising a little bit of money and it's really capital intensive . It's so damn expensive , guys .
And I get people come to me all the time with a great idea to start a brewery . Right , mike , come here , buddy , come here , come , sit down by me for a couple of minutes . We're going to have a conversation , you know , and when they really get bent out of shape is when I start talking about personal guarantees , right ?
They don't understand that I don't get it . My students , you know , whenever you start getting into legal forms of organization like , well , an LLC is a limited liability company and I'm like , OK , but what happens when you have to sign a personal guarantee , Forget that . It all goes out the window . That's it .
OK , that's it . Yeah , I mean , there is no . And I tell my students the same thing . I'm like man . If you're in this like a cockpit and you got your one hand on the ejection ring , your business is not going to win , right , yeah , you better be all in , because it was so much more expensive than I thought and you don't even know what you don't know .
So , yeah , no , no . So yeah , I raised a lot of money . We ended up raising about $10 million . Dang .
Wow , good job man . So you went through a radical transformation of this business . You grew along right and you ended up with a whole bunch of pubs . I guess brew pubs Would you call them that .
Oh yeah , I love telling this story . Thank you for breaking it down . How long do I have ? Four hours on this ?
thing . Although Mark's got to get out of here on time to go get his motor home , now I've got to get it , take it in , got to take it in , I'll hustle up .
I'll hustle up . Here we
¶ From Pub Failures to Business Transformation
are . We had our first pub in Springdale . It was doing great . Then we opened it with Rogers , which is the core building , which I loved . It was Dusty Graham's building over there . Of course , I told everybody it was mine . Yeah , right , yes , my pub was there and it's the core building . It looked like the core building . So there you go , you're welcome .
And so we had a pub there and the worst thing happened . Mark , it did great . Mm-hmm , it was doing amazing . It's the worst thing that could have happened to the business . It's sadistic to think it was a good business , oh yeah .
And then the next thing , I'm sitting there with my biggest investor and we're sitting in one of our pubs and the banker from JP Morgan flies up to just tell me how smart I am . Jesse , you're a genius , you need to replicate this bud . And I'm like hell , yeah , I'm so smart , this is a surefire way .
So we opened up yeah , you're so smart , and I'm one of my investors and we're like God , we're smart . And this we go like let's open eight more . Dad near killed us , almost bankrupt us . We got within 29 minutes of bankruptcy .
Oh wow , and we're those eight , all here in northwest Arkansas , all over Arkansas .
Okay , we had Little Rock , north Little Rock , our whole goal , you know . You put it on paper . A cool little business plan looks really smart .
Yeah .
You're spreading your brand recognition Right . You're driving your retail sales . Driving your retail sales Right . You're gaining brand equity , customer loyalty , Backfired in almost every single possible way . One you can't account for the amount of theft .
That's what I tell everybody about that business . Internal theft is the biggest problem . If you're not there all the time in that business , people are robbing you . They are your employees , are giving the product away left and right .
I assume that's the problem . I assume for every dollar beer we delivered we sold 60 cents why that's a lot of internal theft . I mean , I hate to say it- well , it's a pretty simple gig , you know .
I mean you would , you would sell a pie to eric , eric would give you cash , take the cash , cancel the transaction , everything's good , and it was just it's just part of the norm . And I mean there was times when the pub and it was just it's just part of the norm , and I mean there was times when the pub , you know , they just wouldn't open .
And I'd find out they just weren't open that day . So you're pissing off all your customers . And then so I remember in , um , we like driving around all those things all the time , all the time . Yeah , it was terrible .
I was so unhappy , guys , we got away from what I really enjoyed , which is um relationships , of um manufacturing , the business side of it , and it was just really about just babysitting the whole time , sure , and then , um , I was just talking to my wife one day . I'm like I almost dropped an f-bomb there , so close , but almost did . I said I said f this .
You know , this is terrible . I mean I'm so unhappy , you know we should close this business . I'm going back to my day job , you know , and my wife just goes close all the stupid pubs , just close them all . It was so hard .
Yeah , it's a hard decision to make because you're and I remember reading this in the paper . You still have the one , though , at the airport .
We do , and I'll tell you why we're successful there in a minute One . We're successful there because we don't run it that's right by Paradis and Paradis is really good . We're not . And so I went to my wife and you know that saying that JFK said about how every success has 100 fathers but every failure is an orphan . Oh , that was me , bud .
Oh , when the pubs were going up , man , I had a lot of buddies , we were all geniuses . But , man , when that thing started getting out of hand , it's like , jesse , what did you do ? You were so stupid , and so I just went to my board and I said we got to close these things .
And you know , after a while we were able to close them and it was rough , man . But then , six months later , covid hits and we look like geniuses again . Oh , months later , covid hits and we look like geniuses again . Oh , wow , it was so fortuitous , good timing , it was such , you know , I like to say that is so lucky .
I thank my wife for just telling me . You just got to do this , man , you're so unhappy . And as a result , guys , we went from just dying on a vine , unhappy , to retrenching , getting back to where we're good . I think Scratchy called back up to number one again . That's what it took . So what I tell our students , mark , is you know , don't be too cute .
You know you have more time than you think you know and do not get over your skis . Be careful who you take money from . Amen to that . And I look back at it and I and um , well , go ahead .
No , I'm just gonna say a lot of people you mentioned your students . A lot of people don't know that jesse also teaches at the walton college . Oh , I didn't know that . Yeah , and uh is is uh , I mean , I think it's great when we have people like you have real experience out there doing this stuff .
It's cool , you know , it's the students value that so much , no doubt and it's you know I .
When when dr rich came to me and said , hey , man , you want to teach this class ? I'm like I don't know . You know I didn't . It didn't sound that fun to me but man , after I taught the first one , I'm hooked .
I love it it forces you to keep learning and refining your own business philosophy , doesn't it ?
100% and it also gives me restored kind of a renewed perspective , optimism . You know that the world is going in the right direction . It really is . These kids , these young future leaders , are bright . Yeah , they are and I'm really excited and there's so much fun .
Yeah , from my business one , they know I make Scarlet Letter and they're like who knows Scarlet Letter ? Yeah , we do Scarlet Letter Right . But they're so engaged and they give me such great feedback I learn as much from them as they do from me .
Absolutely . I felt the same way , for sure , but you've got an amazing reputation .
Well , amazing reputation . We use this book a lot of times in my class . Well , that's nice , jesse , you don't have to do that . You start using this podcast so I can get a little bit of benefit out of it , out of your celebrity status . I'm over here , I'm trying to make some , I'm sorry .
Yeah , these are passing out the podcast look , no , truthfully , eric's the most successful one of the bunch , no , but , but anyway he's been great to work with , but I'm always trying to get that money . It's a lot of fun , but . But going back , though , to your business , so you close the pubs down . Six months later , covid hits , you're making beer .
Okay , when did you morph this business into what it is today , which is making these other products ?
Yes , so by one . How did that deal with all the theft and stuff in pubs ? We're actually focused on things that actually make money , right , and White Claw was becoming a thing , right . Mm-hmm , that actually make money right . And , uh , white claw
¶ Success in Business Evolution and Passion
was becoming a thing right . And I remember drinking white claw and go , wow , that sucks to , not what to do this . I did not leave a career to make this crap , but my brewers were like try this , is it like zima or something ? See back back in our day . We're drinking zima , right ? Yeah , I mean , I never had white claw . That's z Zima .
I think Zima tastes better than white claw . Truthfully , yeah , remember that song .
I just can't believe you dropped the Zima note , that's like . One time I asked Mark , I was like what kind of music are you listening to ? Well , I like Waterfalls by TLC . I'm like what the hell did you just say Like how the hell ?
I mean it's a Zima , zima and T like how the hell ? I mean , it's a lab thing , yeah , but no , and it was like such a great . It's a case study in itself of a product that just like went insane and then just completely died , like overnight .
Oh , yeah , and so it's . Yeah , it's a white claw where I'm to my brewers like , try this . I'm like sucks , sucks , right . And after eight months we we delivered something . I'm trying . I'm like , whoa , that's pretty good . So I'm like , let's do this , let's give it a real shot .
We put it out in the market , did some tastings , got people to try it , and the response was great . And then , a year later , it's 95 of our business . Wow , all right . So what do you call that ? That's a . That was hard seltzer , a hard seltzer . And so this year we're releasing hard tea and that's going into all this .
I like that and , oh man , I'm going to like that . Oh , you're so . And what's cool , what's fun is , I think , the one thing we're good at . We suck at pubs . Clearly , right , obviously , matt , obviously you're terrible , and so . But we were really good at making stuff .
Yeah , and this hard tea , sam's Club did a blind taste testing with all the national brands and ours won hands down . Wow , that's fantastic , it's really good , that's great . And so we're releasing that next year .
So do we make the John Daly's out of this , or what do we do with it ?
You can manage it with something else . Well , you can put in your beer helmet , mark , and just go with it . Beer helmet on a Janus Guzzle , that stuff , a tennis guzzle and stuff , just go .
In his motorhome . So Scarlet Letter though 95% of the business . What was so fun ?
about this , guys , was you still make beer , though . We do , we do , and this is what's so fun about this . I'm going to definitely write in a book about this whole experience . It's going to be called 29 Minutes . Yeah , and- . Love it so catchy . I minutes . Love it so catchy , it'll be funny . There'll be some funny stuff in it .
I promise you You're a funny guy . My daughter says I'm the funniest guy , andy , and I definitely think we're the funniest people on the planet . My daughter after a time is like God , you're stupid and embarrassing .
I always think that about us there's nothing we can do about that .
It doesn't matter how cool you really are , like we are . Yeah , our daughter is still here . When they get older , though , they'll realize how freaking cool we are .
They'll be like you know what ? You were really cool , Dad , your kids will say that We'll see .
I'll keep you guys posted on that one , we'll see . Now I'm really lucky . My kids are amazing . Where were we ? I forgot my question . This is what happens when I'm getting older .
We're talking about Scarlet Letter . 95% of the business . You still make beer .
Yes . So the beer thing , thank you God . All right . So the beer thing is I went to make craft beer because I loved making beer . Yeah , I didn't want to make the same crap that everything was out . This is the evolution . Eric comes to you with a homebrew and you're like , oh , it's delicious , it's amazing , this is so much better .
You're going to be a bazillionaire . And then , all of a sudden , he invests . He starts with a one barrel system , a tiny system . Everybody's like it's the greatest thing ever . And then this is where it happens . He starts buying equipment and bigger equipment . All of a sudden , this stuff's not quite so sexy . And then what ?
He's okay , I'll just make a light beer , and that's how . And then , and then , next thing , you know he's on a fast track to nothingness . And so , bud , light , miller , light , coors , light , natty light . I have brands that are never going to go away . People just drink it and they're not going to drink the craft stuff .
Sorry , that's just what I've learned , sure ? So it's a part of me making scarlet letter and and going into beverages . I can now make beer that I like , right . I don't have to make the stuff that just sells , that just pays bills , right . And the ironic thing is that it doesn't pay the bills .
Nobody's going to buy your lager when they've been drinking bud for 30 years . Yeah , that's a hard truth . When I'm talking to little johnny over here about his new brewery , sure I'm like . Sure your hop , that you got some experimental hop you picked up new zealand , you know , you know , stolen from a great wife's mouth .
There's something and you know it's great , but you can't buy it . It doesn't scale , you can't replicate it . You can't replicate it , sure , so it makes total sense . Oh , that's , that's where we started getting better . Got to stick green dot .
As we started getting better , we started getting back to what we're good at Relationships and product and driving your cogs down and doing those kinds of things . And that's where we started winning again .
Like if I went to your brewery once and I was watching those cans going through those conveyors and filling up and everything , it's like I would just be hypnotized by that . Do you ever just walk out there on the floor and then just like go into , like some kind of a weird meditative hyper focus of watching all this stuff on being out your product ?
I'm like scrooge mcduck of the canning line .
I'm like I would dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar . My floors are like a pool of cans all day long . This is so boring . I'm like dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar , dollar . That's the rest of us . So I just love it . And my chairman of the board will fly in and do the same thing .
The guy runs a big company . He'll fly down here just to pull cans . I know it feels good . Yeah , it is the american dream baking stuff . It is selling it . His entrepreneurship it is .
It is indeed . That's fantastic . I love being down there
¶ Craft Beer Industry Trends and Challenges
. Now I want to ask you , though , one question that I've always wondered sure , why do all these independent brew pubs sell skunky beer that's served too hot ? What the hell is that about ? Because the old guys like me go in there and we're , like you guys , got Bud Light in the cold , right . Okay , to your point earlier .
I mean 30 years of drinking Bud Light .
It's 50 in my case . Okay , I mean . So why do they all seem to follow this formula ? Okay of that , let's bring your dog , let's sit around . Yeah , our employees are slackers . Maybe they'll give you good service this time . Maybe they'll ignore you for 20 minutes the next time .
And , by the way , we'll serve you any matter of variety of oddly named strange tasting beers with shit in them that should ever be in beer , okay , and we'll serve it warm and maybe not carbonated like it should be . You don't have to answer what ? No , no , this I mean .
I just wonder , why do they keep doing that and then thinking this is gonna be a great ?
success ? It wasn't . The problem is marcus was a success for now . Now you look at the data and everybody's dying on a vine because , guess what , nobody wants to drink a 400 calorie beer . That tastes like shit . Yeah , exactly , you know . I remember a phase where I I went up to colorado and I'm like I've got a 10 ounce pour of this barrel aged stuff .
That's like molasses , I mean . It's like give me diabetes after one glass of it . You know , and I'm thinking to myself and I told my wife I'm like this is the beginning of the end of craft brewing right here . If I have to pay $14 for a 10 ounce glass of this stuff , that's really not even good . You know that .
That's and that's why seltzer started becoming so popular . You could drink eight of them , not get diabetes , and you know it tastes good .
Yeah well , it seems to well . The whole thing is is um it just . It always comes down to differentiation of your product and having something that other people aren't doing , which is what leads to great success . So how do you account , like for your Scarlet Letter , for example ? Where do you see that fitting in the market that you serve ?
What makes it so different ? What makes it successful ?
That's what keeps me up at night every because there's always going to be competition and if you're doing something well , it's a matter of time for somebody to start copying . Sure , so that's what we do . Well . One . I learned also that you don't have to be the first to do it . That's usually really expensive and hard to do .
For example , when I came from California and , by the way , my kids are eighth generation Arkansans , I'm not a Californian , for the record I got so much shit . When I came back , I'm like I'm Arkansan , I just lived in California .
I know I moved here via Boston , but I'm from Missouri , okay . So it's like , yeah , that's the worst , yeah , so anyway , I'm a native Missourian myself . I didn't realize that .
I just thought you were from Boston this whole time . He's from the Lou . No , I swear to you , he's from the Lou .
Yeah , I am . It's not that much different from Fort Smith Outside St Louis , okay .
I had no idea , honestly , all this time , that you were from here .
No , I swear to you Sorry . Anyway , I came here and I bought a canning line for the business . I couldn't sell a drop of beer in cans and that's why some of my students I thought it was a no-brainer being from California , Nobody drank out of bottles anymore .
So to me being the first , not necessarily the greatest idea , the first independent , independent brewer , put your beer in cans .
Yeah , or just being so far out ahead of .
I found that I was too far out ahead of the market . Okay , you know I was too early , I was running down the hill a little too fast , yeah , so I slowed down . And so for me , I feel like where Scarlet Letter does a good job , positioning is we're pretty good on trends and we're able because we're small , we're able to pivot quickly .
We're pretty nimble and we can attack trends pretty quick , so like your flavors being a trend .
is that what you were talking about , or ?
it's like hard tea is has five more years of runway and we're way ahead of any other Arkansas brewery on that . Yeah , Cause we've been developing it for a year .
I love the idea of hard tea . I really do , it's great .
And you know the I don't want to . If there's any competitors out there listening , don't listen to this , right . You know is we have a light hard tea that's going to be released in 2026 . Awesome . And then we have another beverage that we're already planning for 2027 .
Sure , you know . So we want to make sure we're staying right , because hard tea or a seltzer is flatten like well that's . Yeah , that's got a very oaky overtones , with a little bit of nuttiness to the aftertaste , and oak cask , oh yeah , and all that bullshit . Okay , and they were trying to do the same thing with beer . Did you notice that I was ?
awful , I hate . I call them the neck beards . You know , the neck beards , no fish was like right here and they got , you know , their harpooner whaler hat on like they're about to go . You know harpoon moby dick out there in the same uniform and they had , like this pretension to the whole thing , that really turned me off .
Well , it really started pissing me off in my pubs . Is I had like this pretension to the whole thing , that really turned me off .
Well , it really started pissing me off in my pubs is I had to go kiss their asses the whole time . You know , I'm like oh , hey , you know , what do you think about this ? Because I don't want a bad review on and this rating site . Oh , you know , and so you know I give them this , this product I work really hard on .
I have to sit there , pretend like I care what they think , you know , and it's usually when you said oh , it's , it's a good fruity . No , tangerine , yeah , exactly yeah . And I'm like like there's no tangerines , I'll let start career for this crap .
And then what happens is you tell eric , then eric's got his neck beard , he's rocking out there , he's got his beanie on at 97 degree weather .
We should have had Jesse on soon , I think , doug .
That's right , Our kind of spirits bark Beanie on in 97 degree weather . You got the uniform on and as soon as I Eric , listen you're going to start paying for your beer . Now they're gone , they're moving on the next pub and your ratings go down on the side like that , it's just , I'm done with the game .
So I got to a point where I just told them all hey , you know , kiss my ass , If you don't like my stuff , go away . And so I started focusing on bigger , you know , relationships with bigger accounts , more scale and just making really good stuff .
We're in the right place to do that here in northwest Arkansas , right , gosh ? I mean , you couldn't be in a better location to create , have a distribution of your product , right ?
What a you know there's so many reasons why this is one of them . I mean , I've lived in San Diego , miami Beach , boulder , right . This is the best place in the country . It really is .
I mean , I can't say I lived in all those , which are all great places , but I lived in Boston . I lived in Memphis . Everybody's like Memphis sucks . Actually I thought Memphis was great .
Okay , dfw area . I'm a Cowboys fan . We're going to talk and we've got a therapy session coming up . I'm a Cowboys fan .
But I'm with you on it . I mean Northwest Arkansas . I always say we're not the best at any one thing , but the overall package comes together here . It's a really great quality of life , no doubt .
I love raising my family here . Yeah , I love it . And you get enough , you know I mean the cost of living . Still , well , I'm glad I bought my house a long time ago , I can tell you that . But I love it here . I love Northwest Arkansas , yeah .
So you're such an interesting guy . He's done so many different things in your life . You recently went back and got the DBA . What motivated you to do that ?
Tell us about that man , I love pain . I'm kidding about that . It's something that after I started man , I love pain . Yeah , I'm a glutton , I'm kidding about it . It was . It's something that when , after I started teaching , you know , I started learning One . Getting this past my board of directors was hard because they're like what the hell ?
You're the CEO of this company , you don't have time for this . But I saw the value in the academic research out there that PhDs were doing and all this amazing information that were not really accessible or even digestible for people like me , a practitioner , and I thought , man , what an amazing amount of information . And so I wanted to learn .
I want to be the best CEO I can be and I also want to be the best mentor I can be , and I think about myself more as a mentor than professor and I wanted to give this a shot . And so it came down to OSU or University of Missouri , st Louis , and I chose University of Missouri , st Louis because of the academic settings I've been in .
They don't really value . Oh , of course , practitioner , I know it's a little bizarre to me .
I think the Walton College has done a good job . I mean , I feel like they've treated me with respect , but there is still a fundamental difference . When you have things like email groups that are for you know , tenure track versus non-tenure track , that's a big deal . You know , tenure track means you got the terminal degree and you're not necessarily .
I thought you know , for me you know , and I don't want to interrupt you there but tenure track is and one . I felt like that kind of bias happened both ways . I have my board of directors that I have C-suite officers on my board and they're like I don't care what a tenure professor says , those guys just work four hours a day .
Right , you know , that's what they think . And then I have the tenure professors over there thinking , well , how many publications do you have ? Well , you're not in our group either . You got nothing . You got nothing .
You got nothing Right . So what you could have ? Like 300 articles published in the business journal , but that doesn't mean anything because they're not academic journals .
Yeah , not to me .
Okay .
But it could be a C-suite office for a company that's doing $400 million a year and be like how many publications , if not how many publications .
Exactly Go ahead . Well , no . So you decided you were going to go through this .
And because this particular program this is why I'm an advocate for the executive DBA program is because it bridges the gap . They focus on practitioner scholars , people that have run businesses , who have the scars , the blood , and they teach them how to do that academic research , to speak that language .
To me , I felt like it was a one plus one equals five , and it was some of the best money I spent . How long did it take you ?
to do this Three and a half years , well , and so how often did you have to go to St Louis ?
Once a month , Okay , and it was hard . You know you dedicate 20 hours a week to this program . Wow , and it's a lot . It's a lot and I'm already working 100 hours a week Running a business and family and teaching at the Walden College .
It was hard , so what real value do you see that you got from it all One ? I'm a far better leader . Why , though I mean why did that help you become a better ?
the information that you learn in this , the , the , the research , um , my ability to um digest uh , this one . The thing I tell you , eric , is academic research has put a lot of good uh publications out there . How many of them have you read ? Zero , yeah , see , that's a problem .
There's a lot of good research out there , and what it also helped me is be able to um uh to be able to be a better professor for these students as well , and also I wanted to go into the professional field . Before I get on that , I want to talk a little bit about , uh , what my research was . It was really cool .
I worked with Harps Foods and with Harps Foods I was able to stop company yeah , no doubt , and Harps is a great local business and Harps went and met with J Max Van Hooster , ceo , and with Harps I was able to do an experiment with them and measure shelf space and , because of my relationships with J Max and Harps , I was able to get in there and do a
physical experiment that measured the shelf space changes from if you swap out a large brand with a small brand , what would happen . The data was fascinating . It showed that if you swap out a large brand with a small brand , facing sales of the total modular went up .
I couldn't have done that if I were just in academics Interesting yeah , so , but I learned how to conduct that . If I were just in academics Interesting yeah , so , but I learned how to conduct that experiment through this program as well . Wow , yeah , that's very cool . It was good . I'm very happy that I did it . I'm very happy .
I didn't do a great job of explaining it but I am very happy that I did it .
No , you did a great job explaining it , jesse . You know I mean you talk
¶ Academia and Practitioner Collaboration
about . There's useful research out there that those of us on the practitioner side don't have access to or unaware of .
You know , I think part of the problem with academia and I just had breakfast this morning with one of my friends who was a former professor here and now he's moved to a different school and his thrust has always been that we risk our academic existence if we don't do more practical research than what is done .
That's I think that for a lot of people , um , they're very skeptical of anything that they would see in an academic journal , good or bad . And then , you know , when I see even our own college or university promoting some of the research that's been done , I think it really hurts our credibility out there in the marketplace with practitioners .
For example , what happens to the performance of teams when you give them misinformation ? Is that a worthwhile topic ? What do we think is going to happen ? Performance goes to shit , okay . Or another study that was published people who don't go to the office don't get sick as often as those who do . Now can you believe that ?
Yeah , because you've isolated yourself , okay , weird . Or those whose urine is darker in color are less hydrated yeah no than those who have light . These are all studies that I have seen put out by our university . Okay , and there are , for what it's worth .
There is a group of people I know in northwest arkansas non-academics , who run businesses , who jump on every bit of PR about absurd research done and share it amongst themselves and say this is what the hell's wrong with higher education today .
Man , I completely agree with that and that's why I think it is so important again , kind of going back to you know , mark , it's people like us and Eric that we are the ones that need to be more involved in higher education , because I truly believe education is really the solution to a lot of our problems .
But I , for the life of me , don't understand and they've tried to explain it to me , but I think maybe I'm just dumb Is the rigor versus relevance argument For me . I just don't understand why you would do anything that's not relevant . And they explain it , they explain it , explain it . And I still struggle with that .
I don't really want to do anything that lacks relevance . And there's been . I've had to read a lot of that , you know , and through the DVO program there's one class in particular that I read , that I went through and I read a lot of shit . It was completely useless , you know .
But there were some other classes , particularly my corporate strategy , that was unbelievable , that absolutely helped me become a better executive and think at a higher level .
So you know , I mean I'm a . It's funny this conversation , because I do think about it quite a bit . My dad was a professor . Yeah , chair of psychology .
Yeah .
So I grew up in this . It's , you know , academia . I know , yes , I'd rather have it as an academia , but , you know , as a practitioner , like the reality is is , I probably would put a bet on how much I'm constantly self-learning , like continuously . I don't watch a lot of TV , I don't do a lot of other things that are passive .
I'm constantly reading , listening to audio books , listening to YouTube , seeking , seeking , seeking constant industry information . You are , I know that about you . Yeah , I mean I have to right , right , but what dumbfounds me is whenever I'm talking about that information you are , I know that about you . Yeah , I mean I have to right , right , you know , and .
But what dumb founds me is whenever I'm talking about that and I hear somebody from the walton college of business say , oh , have you looked into our research program ? We got a lot of studies , research that we've done for the last , you know , decades that can be helpful for you , and I'm like give me .
And they're like , yeah , I'll connect you with somebody , the journal of academy of management science or whatever right absolute most inconvenient .
Yeah , completely like we could do it like a complete mystery as to how I get my damn hands on any of that research .
We could do a much better job , boiling it down and distributing that through the sort of widespread business media , no doubt , than we do . Well , I , I , there's no doubt . I don't even know where to go Right After .
after a decade of working and being an entrepreneur in this area and I have worked a lot of , I've taken a lot of initiatives on my end to get to know the college and the university yeah , these types of things , no , it's a very good point and I and I and I push out that energy but I get nothing back in return , not like zero , like I get a little bit
, but then it's like no more , it's crickets that's why I felt like the executive db was good for me , because I want to be able to speak that language , because Google Scholar has a lot of good stuff out there .
Sure , there's a lot of crap too , but it's also really hard to read those things as well . I mean , they're hard to digest a lot of those journal articles . So how do I produce research ? How do I do things that are really practical , that you guys can use ?
That's why I chose . So I have a little bit of an answer and it's a little bit of a pitch , but it's genuine . What we're doing right now is exactly what academia is need to do . We need more video talk shows on discussing the research and putting them in areas that I , as a practitioner , can discover and listen to the distribution channel .
Yes , I'm going to do a professor podcast areas that I , as a practitioner , can discover and listen to the distribution channel . Yeah , like , I'm gonna do a professor podcast , you know , like to where . Like that's a great idea . But I mean like , okay , so I've said that , mentioned it , but I can get no activity on this stuff .
It just frustrates me to no end . But I mean we could totally set up this entire network . It's a great idea .
Let's talk about it , because that is I mean . My brother , Andy , recently completed his PhD in psychology , Did he really ? Yeah , and and we both talk about the same things are like it's , it's really , it's it's . You can't digest this information , and so we were actually considering doing some sort of podcast .
Like you know , a , a , a digestible form of information from research that can actually be used .
So we'll like that you know what we need to have you and I know Andy really well , your brother , yeah , have you all guys back on the show . I've been wanting to do this . Mark hates it when I bring up the emotional side of business ownership , he always cuts me off . Won't let me go down into it , but I want like to me it's how I'm .
That's what he did to me last time .
Well , he said it was like we're huggies and things like that , but it's not like the emotional . Anyway , I would love to have you guys on this talk about the the the emotional intelligence part about entrepreneurship and being a business owner , because the reality for me is is book smarts .
But what you had to go through on when you had to shut down your , your stores you talked about earlier hard decision . It wasn't hard because of the math , because of the business model . You knew you're losing your ass . You knew these things were happening reasonably right .
It was the emotional decision that you struggled and warred with within yourself to where your wife finally , you know , pushed you over the edge and that you made an emotional decision that probably was costing you a fortune for months that you should have made months before . That's the hard stuff for entrepreneurs who wants to lose .
I don't , and that's my mindset .
Who wants to give up any revenue ? Yeah , I never want to give up any revenue , or your reputation .
Or your reputation . Reputation was a big thing .
It was like holy cow , is Jesse going down ? Yeah Right , Stay away from Jesse . I remember whistling . That's an article .
Really , no doubt , no doubt . And I remember feeling gravity the couple of days that I got out of bed and just tried to get both feet on the floor . Absolutely , you know , and but I just , you know , I put on . Damn , it feels good to be a gangster by the boys . Yeah , you do , put in my car and just go , you go , you go .
That's what you got to do , though , man .
You got to self-motivate yourself out of these dark holes , because that's all that entrepreneurship really has , because nobody's sitting around with a bunch of money saying good job Jesse , good job Mark , no .
So proud of you .
You keep the economy going . You keep losing your butt and having people steal from you and having your reputation potentially threatened , but you keep doing it for the good sake of mankind in the economy in the United States of America they don't no one's there to do that , so no , that's true , he's going to change the topic .
No , I want to come back to this though . So , jesse , so you've got this DBA now and you're teaching here at the U of A , you're also still running this company that , I assume , is continuing to grow right . What direction are you going to just keep pursuing both of these paths simultaneously ?
Is that the plan , or I want to have options you know , I think you know , for me I'm happy with where I'm at . You know I considered , you know I had some some faculty opportunities non-tenure track . I don't think that's my path because I don't have time to sit there and focus on the research and the thing I really enjoy is I love the student interaction .
So I've received a couple offers for faculty positions to be a teaching professor , but the problem with that in our field is so you get these offers to be a teaching professor and then you have this tenure track over here with this 26-year-old . You get fired .
This 26-year-old who has no work experience at all , oh yeah , okay , but has a PhDd , all right , and they're going to make x dollars . And you're going to make x minus y dollars in spite of your history of being able to actually start and grow a business to a significant enterprise . How do you rationalize that ?
I don't , and that's why I'm not a faculty member . I mean that's such a big problem . It seems to me . It's a massive opportunity for academia to quit , you know , to look at the opportunity to bring Mark on as a research professional . It makes so much sense .
One like my , my my thing with Harps Foods was there's not a lot of tenure track people that can convince the CEO of a major company . I can do that because I'm a practitioner and I have you got credibility with that credibility . If there's some person 26-year-old off the street he's going to be like how'd you get my number ? Yeah , yeah , right .
And so I think that's an opportunity for both of us . But I'll be worm bait before that ever becomes an amazement .
It's so hard to change , isn't it ? The momentum over there , the inertia .
And just the price of education these days is so stupid .
Well , we've got to remember , I mean education , you know , it's like the ad industry , right . It's hundreds of years old , right , it's been developing way before and it's got its own system , its own rules , its own economy , you know .
And so I mean what we're facing is , you know , and before the internets , getting this type of information was extremely difficult , yeah , it's true , like not available .
But now that folks can get their own research , now you've got AI , right , I mean , you've got a lot of things that are happening that are causing these two worlds to try to come together , but there's still that traditional tension that's sitting out there , that that that mavericks like yourself , jesse , have to bust through .
So best of luck to you , sir , on that I , I well , I mean I first of all .
I love what I do , I love being an entrepreneur absolutely and , um , it's tough man , because what I have learned in just dealing with academia and just even through the doctoral program , for all it's good , all the good things it's taught me , there's still a sense of that they don't really want me in their club . Yeah , they don't want me in their club .
I know , I believe it and that's sad to me . It is , and I think it's a hell of an opportunity if we just get past these kind of silly threatened feelings . And I remember , sitting in one class , one of the professors asked me what I thought about stay at home . Um , you know , employees staying at home , what do you think ?
You know it's a trap , guys , they don't know . And when I started talking about , well , hey , you know , as a business owner , I think you know I have seen productivity go down and , man , I got attacked . You know .
well , we don't want to just keep beating on this , on
¶ Entrepreneurship, Learning, and Personal Growth
this horse MBA . I used every single thing I learned in school , whether it was from a practitioner or a research professor or a TA teaching some discipline class . I mean , I guess that's the . That's the other side of it .
Like , I used every single aspect of my education and I think sometimes entrepreneurs maybe don't value some of the at some of the stuff that you get from a formal degree . It's important .
I and I , you know , oh , yeah , for sure , I'm encouraging some of my employees , I'm helping a few of them go back and get their degrees , you know , and business . I think there's a great benefit for formal education , you know , and yeah , as flawed as it is .
I mean I'm not saying it's perfect in in in any way , but I but I do think we still provide people with a lot of good and can really open a lot of eyes . If you think about all the classes somebody takes and all the different disciplines and all the people they interact with no doubt along the way . I mean that's a valuable experience that .
A broad depth of knowledge is very . Yes , being able to speak the language is important , yes , so yeah , I mean .
Not everybody's as motivated as Eric over here . He just is like on this constant quest to learn .
Then you are Well , I mean , I was actually thinking about the other day . I was like I mean , I was actually thinking about the other day .
I was like , you know , because my girls are all graduating , going to college soon , so there's a lot of this thought process , but it's just like it's not about the degree , it's not about a lot of the stuff that it's made out to be , it's about the person . That's like , if you're wanting to learn , that's where .
That's why the colleges exist , that's why the postgraduate programs exist , for the folks that are wanting to be masters and to continue to improve things . And I mean that's .
You know , when I look at that system , it's just like it's amazing that we built that like over the years , right , I mean it's , you know , it's very fortunate that we have folks that are studying yeah , they're constantly studying , absolutely .
So I got one more question for youesse , sure , um ? So eric and I both have had , like , different kinds of businesses along the way . You know , you had the magazine business , the marketing consulting , the software , now the podcast video studios and other things .
You know , you , you've , you've had your , your beer business that you're morphing into a beverage business . You had pubs along the way , which is a different business . Now you got your dba . Okay , how do you think , um , is this a response to staving off the boredom that one would have if they just stayed in the same thing forever ?
What is that that makes you want to do these , these other things that you want to do ?
because you know , let's face it , they do take time away from your primary business , obviously it's a great question and I not to get , you know , super , super huggy with Eric here and all emotional about it but I mean I'm in , I'm in for it , I'm in you ready . Well , hold tight , we'll get that in a second .
But I think in large part , you know you grow up , you know I mean I was broke growing up . You know , and you know I remember my mom would get paid every second Thursday and I knew I mean we got some good groceries that day . It was rough .
So a lot of what I'm trying to learn is because my fear is I always continue to have to improve , because I was always forever afraid that trap door was going to be pulled out . No matter how successful you get , there's that trap door Right .
That paranoia , that fear , that fear that keeps all of us in , doesn't it ? Oh yeah , what fear Like that ?
I mean , it's a motivator , for sure , but I totally understand what you're saying it's you know Java's going to hit the butt and you're down with the rank court . Right , I'm with you . That was a lot of what was leading me up to , but at this point I'm also just kind of learning to relax a little bit more .
I love learning and I wish I could have told myself earlier going hey , man , jesse , chill , it's going to be all right , you're going to be okay . I did not enjoy the journey enough . I can tell you that right now . I did not . I did not .
I'm so results-oriented all the time and I fight myself with that all the time , and that's my , that's one of the things I want to do with the back , the back nine of my lives , you know , I think my both my parents died at 59 , so I got eight more years . So I'll be right behind you , mark dude .
Yeah , you better live right . Just be me on this damn podcast .
No , just be eric , okay harris are both still alive because I'm living till I'm like 80 minutes at least eight times .
Okay , well , well that's a good run . So for me , you know , what keeps me going is , man , I want to fall into my grave . You know , I want to give it everything I have and just be like I'm going to fall into my grave .
I never had a desire to just stop working . And just what do we do ?
Just think about where we're going out to eat that night . I , I don't know at 4 30 . I mean , it was the best quote in the world from sam elliott on roadhouse , the original roadhouse . I'll get enough sleep when I'm dead .
Yeah , there you go yeah , you know , I just yeah I do wish patrick swayze found out what it was like too young no doubt he was . He was here in the original roadhouse .
I know , man , trust me , man , I'm ripping throats out dude , you know , sorry , I just did that to him . So what about ?
you , mark ? I mean , what keeps you going ? I mean , as you say , you've got five more years left . I think you're going to do better Cigarettes , so what keeps me going ?
Yeah , two ex-wives , five kids , um , it's a . It's a hungry machine . I mean , my god , hungry machine . That's a hungry 13 year old in private school , two college tuitions , four of them in invisalign at once . I mean , come on like a lot of ladies , okay , or it's because you don't have a son , do you ?
No , I don't how many daughters I got a grandson , five , a total . Five daughters , yeah , four , four original ones and one stepdaughter . It's like a daughter . I mean , you're just shelling out though , bro . Yeah , I am , but now it's , I don't know , I think it's , I think it's , I do think it's . You know , it gets boring to just do the same thing .
I mean it's sort of like my cars and motorcycle thing and my house thing . You know , I've done more houses in Fayetteville than anybody else and everybody thinks , oh , they associate me with this craftsman style . Okay , I'm out of that , I'm bored with it , I'm not into it , I'm not doing it .
I'm in mid-century modern now , cars , I never got locked into one thing . I like hot rods , I like Porsches , I like old cars , I like new cars , motorcycles , I never got stuck on one brand .
Okay , I just think it's , it's , it's your nature either to , um , just be super hyper focused on one thing , or be like the three of us are , which is we're constantly , you know , going out on these other exploratory missions , yeah , and down these other paths . It's just it .
It's not necessarily the way to make the most money , though , but I think it is the way to be the most um fulfilled and keep your brain alive . No doubt you know , you know , no doubt . I just think everybody faces I don't know what .
Everybody's got different numbers in mind of how much you got to make or have , or whatever , but , you know , not everybody's motivated by the same thing , and I think the people I seem to have the most respect for are the ones who don't just do what they do to just make more and more and more money , but are trying to branch out and do new stuff .
Yeah , yeah , it just seems like a better path for personal fulfillment , doesn't it ? Oh yeah , you know , but it's not necessarily the most lucrative . I mean , you look at the people who make the most amount of money . It's like they started I built hotels , and I'm 22 and I'm 82 and I'm still building hotels
¶ Entrepreneurial Mentoring and Emotional Support
. Okay .
That's the way , you know . Doesn't wake me up in the morning , though , man . It doesn't I , you know , I'm too entrepreneurial for that . I want to keep going and trying new things . Um , that's , that's just my DNA . I get you . I think we're all like that for better , for worse .
Yeah , you know , I would say that now , you know , um , I'm probably starting to slow down a little bit on that and try to smell the roses a little bit more , but , uh , I'm not sticking around on one rose too long , you know , I'm I'm , I'm moving forward .
Yeah , I think your , your success and in your ability to be a good teacher and mentor to others , um is going to be enhanced , yeah , by that approach um to .
I agree with lots of life what I tell my students and reason why I develop . You know , I think you know friendships or mentorships with a lot of them that I keep in touch with . I actually give a damn about them . I mean , I'm not . I'm not Dude , I'm with you . Yeah , it's not . I'm not doing this job because I make good money .
You're doing it for the gratification you get out of helping these other people and seeing them succeed and their relationships . Yeah , I mean it's fantastic . I just showed my wife last night it was funny you say that , but just last night I showed her a picture on LinkedIn of one of my former students with his insurance agency and probably 30 employees .
Insurance agency bears his name . They're all there . I said this is one of my former students , that's cool . Look at this guy yeah , man . Look at how successfully he's got 600 new clients last year .
That's cool , you know , that's a legacy . That's a legacy , man .
You know way to go . That's right . I just saw another one of my former students over here at the coffee shop this morning . That's cool , you know , I just love seeing him be successful . I'm with you on that Same . That's why we're doing this podcast .
Yep , we may not get the feedback from everybody we can influence , but doggone it , we're trying to help people get into it and get through it . There you go , you know , get into business and get through business and be a success in the end as success is .
You define it as the end as success as you define it as the individual , not society necessarily , that's right , mark , that was some beautiful emotional shit , man . Thanks , buddy Is that what I'm talking about , man . You're all about the emotions . That's why I love you . I love you too , man . You say I'm not emotional Dude . I can cry at an AT&T commercial .
Just ask my wife yeah , I love too , man . You see , I'm not emotional dude . I can cry at an AT&T commercial . Just ask my wife yeah , I love Hallmark movies . They make you cry . Yes , they do , dude , I do cry at movies a lot . I watched that one the other night . Just get pitched , don't look at me , man . I watched that one . It ends with us .
That's real controversial right now with blake lifelike . Have you seen that ? My wife tried to make me watch . That was too emotional .
It was good , I thought it was you know what the most I I've watched ? I've watched this scene a million times and I cry every time . What's that ? Have you ever seen ? The patriot ? Oh yeah , you know . When the little girl runs to mel gibson , oh it's horrible , leave , I'm crying right now breaks . It breaks me every time . Oh yeah , it's horrible .
It breaks me Like I can't help it , like I know it's coming . I'm like don't cry . And I start crying .
You're breaking me down here , right here , that's stuff .
That's some good stuff . Well listen , we're getting off the track here . I think it's time we wrap this up , but it Jesse and Misha has , hasn't it ?
Yeah , I've always wanted to be on here . You guys are a lot of fun , you know . And , mark , I value your reputation . Nate , no smoke . I know you don't like compliments , so get over it . Here it comes . It's hug time . It's hug 30 . Yeah , you know is your reputation around the universities is unbelievable .
You know , when I hear my students talk about you it's just great . So I appreciate what you're doing . Thanks , it's kind of you to say . I just hope my rate , my professor ratings , reflect that .
That's still brutal , right oh yeah , I'm telling you , man , how is it some of the professors who I hate this a question . We're going to have nine more minutes , all right . How is it ? Some of the how some of now I gotta go to some of the professors would be how are they not on ?
Rate my professor and , and I know some of those guys are a-holes , so why aren't they on there ? How do you get off ? I can't tell you .
It's a secret thing , man , you're not there yet , bro , I mean you got to know the secret .
Hey , my score's pretty good right now , so your at Mark's is great .
I bet it is . You know , they used to rate you . To rate you , did you know that , with chili peppers as to how hot you worked , did ? Yes , they had a rating system for how hot you were . I never got a single chili pepper , and this goes back 20 years . So , wow , man , that's so . You know , man .
So forget all the ratings of how beautiful you get chili pepper . Now I I never got it . That never really bothered . But my former mother-in-law did and , believe me , she didn't deserve it . But I'll leave it at that . That's not right . No , that ain't right . So no , they dumped that system .
I guess that was considered too sexist or something , come on , inappropriate . That's good grief . So no more chili peppers , but thanks . Thanks , jesse . No , it's great having you here . We'd love to have you back again . Would you come ?
back . I would be honored to .
Bring your brother psychoanalyze us . Yeah , and I think there's really something on to this practitioner , academic side . To take something that is otherwise some really boring , unreadable stuff and convert it into something that's relevant , I think it'd be fun , who knows ?
Well , I think it's great when it comes from somebody like you , who's been through the ups and downs and made it through and has a tremendous business that bears your name and has transformed itself multiple times .
I'm not man , I'm not resting . You know , the thing to wrap me up here would be you know , we all remember when the Seahawks played the Patriots , right . You know , we all remember when Tony Romo dropped the extra point . That's what keeps me up at night , every night .
It's first and goal at this point , and you know it does like that you were a Texas kicker .
I was watching yesterday Poor Auburn .
Bad day for that guy . They ended up winning , but I would say , man , I'm not resting , you know , and I don't take the success for granted because I know I was eating poo-poo four years ago , so you know we're going to get this into the end zone . Yeah , I love it Good .
All right , Well , until next week .
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