¶ Entrepreneurial Wisdom and Tenacity
hey , everybody , we're back in the studio today with my buddy and my partner , eric howerton . What's up , mark nice shades bro . Hey , thanks , man . I kind of felt like stevie wonder this morning . Yeah , I'm having a lot of eye problems , truthfully . Yeah , and I had the eye operation that us old folks get , the cataract eyes .
Yeah , so anyway , instead of , and then they put these lenses in , so my eyes I did have 20 , 20 and 20 , 15 vision a couple weeks after it was done , but now it's deteriorated . That's great .
So yeah , it's wonderful , is it cool getting older ?
Some ways it's great . Like what ?
How about from a business perspective ?
Just curious , like I mean you're more relaxed , you're less likely to blow your top . You're less likely to cause problems .
I remember when I was like 33 and I was eating . I'll never forget I was eating dinner with you and Ed Friedrichs .
Yeah .
You know when I just started with you ?
yeah , and you and Ed were , like , you know , spending some time with me because I was , you know , came in a pretty good leadership position with Zweig White , with your company , yeah , and I remember both of y'all sitting there saying you know , at your age you know , really exciting time and opportunity for you .
But he's like , but you know , the good thing about our age is that you really don't take this shit as seriously as what you do when you're 33 . It's so true . It actually helped me out , though , because I was like why do I take it so seriously ?
I mean , is it really that serious ? Seriously , yeah , you know what , though ?
I think I was talking with my wife about this very topic last night , and the thing , the truth of it , is that some of the qualities that made you successful younger , that you had when you were younger , eventually they can backfire on you and you're all and you change yeah , like what ?
What's a good example .
Well , I mean like just being getting really worked up and being super , super intense .
Yeah .
That can produce certain benefits for you when you're younger .
Yeah .
I would think something like that is just the tenacity . Yeah , because the reality is , you know , and I'll tell this to younger folks it took me a solid decade , from 25 to 35 , to even be taken seriously in discussing business with people . I was just young . You got to grow the beard out , yeah .
You got to look a little bit older , look like you know what you're talking about . Buy the four-door car instead of the whatever you were driving .
But I had tenacity like I . Just you know , I was just like power through it and just kept at it . But I don't think it was that tenacity that really got me deals .
What it was is just the being to being tenacious helped me learn a lot faster and go through a lot more experiences as to where then , when I was 35 , I actually had maybe 2x the experiences of somebody else . That was just chilling bro .
That was my boss . You know what I'm saying , man . He would say like if you just work 80 hours a week , you already get twice as much experience . But then he also liked to talk about people that would say they had 20 years experience . He goes no , no , they have one year experience , 20 times over yeah based on the way they did things .
That's so good , you know , that's so true , I mean . So , whatever reason , this culture , we got this taking on this idea that like , like you know , I saw something on linkedin the other day and I know this isn't linkedin hall of shame . I did see some posts .
It was like how to how to retire with one million dollars and never work another day for the rest of your life ?
It won't be very good .
That's all I know . Well , there's not only that , but it's also who the hell wants to retire when you're 30 ? Gosh , you got so much to do . There is so much to be done . I don't understand it , and like man , I mean . It's inconceivable . The only thing I've seen that happens in my experience of seeing people that retire . It's a downfall .
It's so true they just start . I mean , what purpose do you have from there . I get it . I mean I get spending time with your family . I get that , but I don't know of anybody that's genuinely really successful , that's truly just retired , if for some reason in the workforce there's this idea that to retire early is a goal . It really shouldn't be .
No , I agree .
It really shouldn't be . Being active and doing things is where it's at being creative , helping people , being a contributor a comrade , right , hey . There's one thing , though , before we go any farther what's that ? Comrade Eric ? A comrade , right , hey . There's one thing , though , before we go any farther , there's a comrade eric that could be misconstrued .
Um , we did not open up the show , as we always do that . This is another episode of big talk about small , big Talk About Small Business , all right .
Now we're in the freaking game bro , now we can start .
Let's start .
Okay , we're ready to go , so I have a mini history lesson .
Okay , what's that ?
I told you before .
I wasn't really prepared for this , but I actually thought of something . Okay , what's that my favorite quote of any entrepreneur of all time ? Okay , what's that my favorite quote of any entrepreneur of all time ? John D Rockefeller Okay , Like , he's got a bad stigma for being a monopolist .
I mean his fault , yeah , that he was just incredibly ingenious and tenacious and did what he did . But I mean thankfully he did , because America wouldn't be what it is without him . But he said he had a quote in his life . He goes .
I would go to bed worried to death and losing sleep about the amount of money that I owe to people , but then I'd wake up looking to borrow more . I think that's like the epitome . That is exactly what an entrepreneur is .
That's the spirit . It's so true , it is the spirit , it is .
Man , look Dude . I mean like I've been wanting to do this presentation , I've been working on it and I need to get it completed , but my title is it's about 4 am .
It's the title of my presentation , yep , because it's at 4 am when you wake up in the middle of sleep and then your brain is just freaking , jammed with all these things that you're trying to figure out and then all the problems and barriers you have against you . I usually get up and walk around , get a drink of water , try to chill out and act like that .
I can process it , but most of the times I end up just staying awake and saying , okay , get up and get at it and start fixing this stuff , but then but but you know what it is about . That 4 am time period , like of when that is when you know if you're an entrepreneur or not .
Like if you can get through that , because a lot of people yeah , you don't let that crush you and paralyze you . Yeah , like it just becomes part of your reality and I know you've experienced that a million times right , no question , I mean , I just like this week .
Yesterday I made the decision that I would personally guarantee some debt for a company that I'm part of , which a lot of people wouldn't do , because you'd look at it and go , wow , they're not making any money . Yeah , yeah , why ? You know it's so risky to do that . But no , I'm gonna do it because I believe .
I believe we have all the attributes we need to be successful got a good team , we got the passion . Yeah , we got the know-how and we have the resources to pull it off . Okay , so I don't care , the rest of the markets declining , which it is in this particular industry or any of them . That means nothing to me . It really doesn't .
I didn't even give it any thought at all .
It is funny because , like you know , in , in , in , the , uh , in , I guess you would say the corporate setting . There's all this analysis and all this thing that you got to do , but , honestly , most of the I mean I would say 99% of my decisions .
Yeah .
I don't like talking to anybody about , because I'm going to get all this debate and discussion when I know deep inside this is the right damn thing I need to do . Right , and it's exciting to me . And the things , all the soft things , that you can't do an analysis on me .
And and the things , all the soft things that you can't do an analysis on , like , does your gut tell you that the market is going to continue to grow and so , therefore , you have a greater opportunity ?
yeah , the wings at your back there yeah , exactly right .
And then you can kind of see down the road and I'm already like pre-defining like six , nine , twelve months out , like on how the market's shifting . I'm I don't watch a lot of industry news , but I watch enough to . I just watch the highlights , right , and I'm like , oh well , that's going to impact this .
And with the AI , like AI , it's like okay , well , how do you leverage that ? In my experience , like when e-commerce came up , how did that really impact the workforce ? And then who was behind and who didn't jump on the train fast enough ? And so there's my opportunity right there for at least 24 months . No kidding , you know .
I mean like , if I embrace AI right now , then I get my team to . We're already ahead . Yeah , I mean , you know , I mean so it's just the ability to . But I think that quote encapsulates that perspective right . A lot of people you know will allow that negativity to kind of just demoralize them out of a situation .
But if you refresh out , you come back and you're still excited about something . That's when you know you're probably an entrepreneur .
Yeah , yeah , the risk . You know there's a lot of risk in everything . Everybody talks about that . But I think most entrepreneurs they really don't feel like they're doing anything that risky . Yeah , they have a lot of confidence and their abilities to do what they need to do to make it work out .
Yeah , because you know you can maneuver .
Yeah , just maneuver . Oh no , pivot , pivot , pivot , adapt . But no , you do have to adapt , you do have to keep yourself informed of what's going on out there in the world that could affect you .
Yeah , and it's not that hard . And you can't be really political or bureaucratic when you need to make a change . Like it's just like you come in , you say the change . There's going to be people that ruffle feathers because those are the people who don't want things to change . But you can't accommodate that . You can't satisfy everybody's fear of change .
To make a company move forward , you have to be the person that walks in the room and says this is the way it's going and if you've got a problem with it , you might want to start looking for another place to work is basically my statement , and my team knows that right .
Like I'm intolerant and I admit I'm like hey , I'm crazy , I come up with new ideas and I'll make this , I'll change the decision in a flash , but I'm not going to change . Yeah , you know , it's just not going to happen because I can't .
If I change , I'm done , not everybody can work for people like you and me . No , and it's just too , it's too um uncertain for them . They feel , yeah , you know , but on the other hand , maybe , if we're pretty good pilots of all the hazards that lie ahead , maybe they should rethink their position .
Right , I would hope so , but I don't know that that's ever going to be . I think that's my dream , right ? It's like oh , people are going to believe that I might know what I'm doing , but I don't think that they do , you know .
You just have to keep proving it over and over again . That's it , man . It's a big part of business is proving people wrong , man , just show the doubters how wrong they were . All right , you heard it last week with Tom Gordon yeah , you know , talking about those banks . That's it that he talked to early on in their evolution .
I'll tell you what an experience of mine has been lately on that topic is is that the team may not really believe , but I can tell you who does believe and that really matters to believe are the clientele . I've had clientele engaging with me because they know that I'm a person that will .
If I say I'm going to do it , I'm going to go for it and I'm going to be accommodating and I'm going to listen to what you need , right . And I'm going to create something off of it . Yeah , and let's take a risk , let's go , let's go buddy yeah , go Go .
¶ Strategic Action
I do think a lot of people that have businesses do get too isolated from their clients and customers . That's why you've got to stay in the trenches to a certain extent doing the work of the business , I agree , not getting out of all the work and being a full-time executive , okay , which I never liked .
That title , no , no , because to me that implies isolation from both your people and your customers .
Yep .
And you've got to be out there talking with them because they're going to guide you . If you do listen and do try to meet their demands , you're going to be successful .
That's your market research . Don't make it bigger than that . You don't have to go buy a subscription at Ivis world and freaking right you know it , Nielsen to understand how to start a business Like what is the market meeting .
Exactly , you got to feel a want or a need . That's it , man . They don't always need it . It's like my wife says , like she'll be like here , eat the rest of my , my dessert . It's like I don't need that . I know you don't need it , but do you want it ? Hell yeah , baby .
Feeding off folks' desires , you know .
Yeah , man , it's a big part , it's a fundamental part of business . The business will not exist unless it fills a water in need . That's it , man , that's all you and marketing . That's what it's based on . So , hey , talking about fuel and growth today , right , we're talking about fuel and growth ? Yeah , we are .
But before we get into that , we're supposed to pull something out of the hat .
Remember the topic out of there .
Pull the topic today , buddy , is that okay ? Yes , of course , it is the Sva .
Yeah . Is that because you can't really read it ?
No , Actually these glasses I have on are bifocals . Oh nice , so I can . That's so I can text and drive at the same time In my convertible ?
I never would do that no of course not .
I do not recommend that . No , I would not . Only at stoplights .
All right , what's in the Zweig hat ? Today is the term too much strategy , ah .
What do you think about that ? What does that say ?
to you . What do you think about that ? What does that say to you ? I say that the if you spend too much of like really , what that comes down to is too much time wasted in my or I wouldn't say it's wasted , because I feel like that you could honestly , like I could , see the value if all I did every day yeah , full time is riding out strategy .
It'd be pretty nice , but the reality to it is that nobody can afford that person that's just writing out strategy and plus it's like a never-ending job . I mean the second that you put something down on paper , especially in today's time , the strategy is going to be busted a little bit in some nook and cranny .
But I think that if an entrepreneur bites into like you've got to have a strategic plan , you've got to work on that and all this , then it kind of goes in that whole pitch deck raising capital . I mean , like , what are you writing all this strategy out for , other than trying to borrow money or get money or get capitalization ?
Banks don't really need all that .
Go ahead .
No , go on . Well , I was just going to say like if you , if you got friends and family funding , they're not going to need all this strategy right and so like in the very beginning , you really don't need that much strategy , like the better thing would be is to go freaking sell some shit . You need some action .
Yeah , action , sell a deal about action , like my strategy has always been did somebody buy ? Exactly that's my strategy .
That's the once they do , who else is like them exactly ?
and then I sell it the second time and then I'm gonna come to mark and say hey , dude , check it out . I got this company called podcast videos that are just starting up and I've got three people in here recording . I think it's got a real good thing .
I'm gonna keep diving into it exactly . No , I get that . I totally . I was going to say that . The only thing I would maybe disagree with you a little bit on is you can't do that to me . I don't see the business plan's purpose to just raise money . I do think a lot of people do think that .
But I mean , if you had a good business plan and a good strategy , it really should be used to guide your people . Sure , you know , I mean it's a I'm sure you wouldn't disagree with that Um , but no um to me that I think you were kind of getting there on what you were saying , like go sell something that somebody wants .
I my my interpretation of that statement there is take some freaking action . If all you do is plan , plan , plan , plan , nothing gets done , nothing gets done . I mean , taking action and seeing what happens to me is the best way to plan , absolutely .
Yeah , because your plan , a good plan , is actually based on the reaction of what's happened , right and it's . You can't build a full out strategy , you know , with with just your expectation or your ideas . It's strategies built over time , like my strategy for this company is going to look a lot different in two years or a year , or even six months .
Yeah , based upon what ? All the complaints and the problems that my clients have faced with working with our company ?
Right , exactly , and if you didn't think that way , you'd go out of business . Yes , yeah , you would not evolve Exactly right ? Yeah , you've got to . There's no question . I mean doing and getting the feedback , and implementing and doing again . That's the best way to develop your strategy , you know a lot of folks .
I was talking to a guy a couple weeks ago . He's like man , I don't know if I should start my own business or if I should just go get a job .
I talk to these guys all the time . Why do we attract those people ?
Because they you know what . I think that they're attracted because they think that we might know an answer for them , and we really don't , because my answer is well , I mean shit . If you think it's a good idea , go for it .
Right .
I mean like test , like go sell it and see . I mean that's going to tell you immediately and you can kind of tiptoe into a business .
What if I do that and then I get a job offer or whatever ?
Well then make the decision . Then you know I mean what if ? What , all these , what is like I don't know . I mean what if I you know , you know make a hundred million bucks and I get slammed by a bus the very next day ? I'd be like what was the , what was the point of my life ?
You know that was what I was banking on Right .
But yeah , I just think that too much strategy could really could have put somebody that I've seen it put people in analysis paralysis . Yes , and then they don't ever do .
If you've got something in your being that's telling you that this is a marketed idea and you've got this energy that's developing out of just like , I can solve that and it needs to be solved . That is really the essence of you being an entrepreneur Like there's something that's happening there Analysis are you going to be the person that takes action ?
That's your second step of knowing if you're an entrepreneur . Yeah , like there's something that's happening there and now it's just are you going to be the person that takes action ? That's your second step of knowing if you're an entrepreneur . Yeah , like you just say , screw it , I'm taking it . The wife's like no , you can't .
And then you're like I got to man , I mean like I've got to go for this right . You know You've got to go through that kind of stuff . You're not going to do enough of a strategy to show to your wife or your spouse to get on board with what your vision is .
You're never going to do it and get in trouble . That's my philosophy . You've got to get out there and try it and see what kind of reaction you get and whether or not you can do it . Whether or not you can do it and actually make money on it , that's another thing .
There may be a lot of things you can do it and actually make money on it that's another thing . There may be a lot of things you can do , but they don't there's just the economics don't work out .
I can't wait to watch this podcast and see the sunglasses bro you know I never wore sunglasses before .
It's one of the reasons I wore hats because I didn't like . I don't like seeing the world through a distorted lens . I know that sounds crazy .
No , it's beautiful , though man Full color baby .
Yeah , I just want to see what it actually is . I love it . It was one reason why I got the cataracts done , though , because it's like looking at everything through a sepia filter . Oh really yeah .
Before cataract surgery yeah , Everything turns sepia filter .
Oh really , yeah , before cataract surgery . Yeah , everything turns sepia on you . Yeah , it's kind of yellowy and dingy . We were watching tv the other night in our room where we have , like you know , the 85 inch tv hanging on the wall and everybody says that's terrible for a marriage . You should not have your giant tvs in your bedroom .
I'm like that's the best place . What are you talking about ?
you know , plus .
I mean , the truth is our room is so long that we have like a living area in one end of it and that 85 . You know , you got to have that to be able to see what's going on . It's not like a pivot , yeah .
But anyway , I said to my wife I'm like because because we had some AT&T fiber optic problems and we got this notice the other day , like your internet will be out for the next , you know , four hours or whatever . It'll be restored at this time . And so I'm looking at the TV and I'm like , holy cow , the colors , the resolutions's amazing .
Do you think it's because of the upgrade in our internet that you know AT&T is like finally giving us the 2.5 gigabytes or whatever the hell we're paying for . You know , in this fiber optic cable she goes . No , she goes , it's your eye operation .
Jackass Like oh , your eye operation ?
Jackass Like oh yeah , I forgot about that . It's so beautiful , it's like suddenly you start seeing all this stuff , but anyway . So , yeah , forget the look away from that . Just pretend you're sitting there with Stevie Wonder or something . I like it , man , and maybe I'll break out in a song . Don't have a piano here , though . Um , like stevie , um .
So let's get into our topic fueling your growth . Yeah , for your business . Yeah , what's going to do that ?
well we're supposed to talk about there well , I mean there's , there's like understanding your customer base . Okay ,
¶ Optimizing Customer Journey Process
you what's ? That customer journey .
What do you mean customer journey ? That sounds like a cliche .
Well , your journey ? Yeah , like , what is the entrance ? How do people become exposed to your company ?
Okay , and then how do they ?
engage and then what's the sales process ? And then I think , in that sales process , okay , what's the sales process ? Yeah , and then , and I think you know , and that sales process , what's your quoting process , what's your closing process , what's your payment processes ?
okay , totally get that .
That makes a lot of sense if you can , and then and then one of the biggest ones that that I've been , that I've , that I've been really kind of guilty in a way of not implementing soon enough was , like what's the handoff from sales to the customer team , the accounts team ? Okay , like that , there's got to be an that's your business .
I mean , we're talking a business to business , service business .
Yeah , but even if you're selling a product like how does it get to the to the warehouse to pack ?
it up , you know .
But there's a how does it get to the warehouse to pack it up ?
But there's always this transition of when somebody buys to somebody executing their order .
True , yes , and that process is so easily not thought about and developed . That is so true . But it will bottleneck everything you got . And if you sign somebody up and that handoff isn't fast , let's say that it takes a week for the execution team to start developing that out and start understanding what that original agreement was .
By that week's time the customer's already going like what the hell's going on here ?
Sure , they've got all kinds of cognitive dissonance . Did I hire the right people Exactly , immediately , I know .
I'm with you on that . And then you're always behind and you're playing catch up and then oh , by the way , you get a new order in and then a new one , like that's happened to me , like that is so true .
We talked about that in the construction industry , yes , like the whole sales process is fantastic , but as soon as you sign something crickets for two or three weeks and you're like hey what , what the hell is going on that's why you should .
I always recommend that everybody gets a weekly job status report yeah , and telling them what we did this week , what we're going to do next week , any other special issues or concerns . That's it that you need to be aware of . That's great . But , yeah , so the customer journey . So you got to . You know we're talking about fuel and growth .
So you said you have to understand that . You've got to map that out right . Yeah , you got . Either it's in your mind or it's written .
It's got to be , yeah . And then , with technology like it , you know , and all the softwares that we're using , like , where are those transitions happening ? Do people clearly know that now this job is , is in order and I've got to do these things ? And then I think that another thing is is , like you know , it's like what's the what's the results of it ?
What's the communication ? What feedback are you getting from the customer during that process ? Because you know it was like what's the results of it ? What's the communication ? What feedback are you getting from the customer during
¶ Building Customer Relationships for Growth
that process ? Because you know , if you wait too long to get feedback from the customer , it's not repetitive , in small chunks . They're not going to remember all the problems they had , they just have this fatigue .
They just have a feeling that they're not happy . They can't articulate what it was .
They may not even remember how they first came in contact and learned about your business , which is critical to you to be able to market it .
So you've got to find that stuff out along the way . But all that to me is process , and if you can't develop a process of that , that's going to stunt your growth . And so to fuel your growth , if you're a master at those processes , then you can handle more customers or more clients with the same amount of resources .
Number one , which is going to help fuel your growth , because your expenses don't fall .
exactly . You're spreading your overhead out over a larger number of transactions .
Exactly Always a good strategy Exactly , and then hopefully you can get your jobs done faster . It's a lot like waiting tables , it's about turning tables , it's about checking in , like I mean , a lot of servers might be good at taking your order and getting in the system fast , but they suck at pre-busing and leaving your table dirty as hell .
And then one of the biggest rules of serving tables is that you can come by and get them checked out soon . Yeah , because you could have the best experience in the world . But if your server's out there , lollygagging .
They can't find your server to get your bill , so you can get the hell out of there , I know . So they can do somebody else .
You've got to close that whole loop . Yeah , I tell you I used to . I love I was a waiter back then . I think it's been so critical to my business .
Was that ?
the restaurant at the Holiday Inn yeah yeah In Jonesboro .
The Holiday Inn , the Mallard Club in the Holiday Inn . Then I did like a Lazari pizza Italian oven in Jonesboro and then I moved up here . I worked at Cool Water the bar .
Oh , you worked at Cool Water .
I did man , I was a bartender , I was a cocktail server and then I also worked at Olive Garden in . Fayetteville as a server . In Fayetteville as a server yeah , I knew that Back in the day , but I loved serving tables because it was , like you know , like many little businesses , every client . I loved having really difficult clients .
I can see you being really good at it .
You come in , you got , you know somebody like me . Well , I mean just like wearing a hat and shades and just like all we pompous and arrogant and you know all the I'm just not sure I like that direction , but I mean , like you know , sit down and make sure . Came to your table , greeted you got your bread , let you start eating .
What do you want for apps ? Get your drinks fast , make sure they're good , filled up , dude . If you got man , I love it when you get like almost halfway and I'll be like there , pop a freaking pitcher tea that just Just fill that puppy up .
No wonder you were so good at that , Dude I loved it , man .
The second that you were done eating your freaking lasagna , I was always creeping around the corner . I'm like that's the only guy that's about to eat his last freaking ravioli . As soon as you put it in your mouth I was like bop . Bop grabbed your plates , got it cleaned up . Man , I had it all cleaned . What kind of dessert do you want tonight ?
Yeah , would you like a ?
chocolate lasagna . I'll recommend the chocolates . That's my favorite . I eat like five of them a day . The cannolis are really good . Cannolis are great too . Yeah , it's really great . You know , would you like some coffee ? You need sugar or cream and just keep it clean and have a great experience , and they just I get a better tip Right , and they come back .
Right and ask for me . No , it's so true though . That's just the perfect little sort of micro business transaction , yeah .
That we can all relate to .
That we can all relate to , that a business goes through . It may take two years to go through that in a certain business-to-business or business-to-consumer purchase decision , right , but those things are all happening in one way or shape or form .
And the example about fueling growth was that I could actually turn more tables than my counterparts , right Like I could open up a table sooner because I got them all their stuff super fast .
Because you're scheduling this all . You're not just yeah , yeah .
And then by the end of the shift I might have had four or five more tables . Four or five times five . $10 a pop , that's 50 more bucks . Right , how we made in the shift and you did , bro .
Seven days a week , that'd be 350 . Come on 50 . Yeah , and you do that for a third weeks at a month and you just made like $1,600 more than the other guy did . Sorry , man .
Sorry , sorry , you got beat , yeah , but I mean the big thing about like it's . It's about customer satisfaction . The desire to make people happy with their investment is so critical to fueling your growth .
And and , and I mean nobody . I don't see how anybody could disagree with that . So customer service as a marketing strategy is part of that . It's not all of it because there's the steps before they're actually a customer right . But yeah , undoubtedly customer service is a marketing strategy .
I always poke fun at you know , word of mouth is what , how we market , because usually when most small business owners tell us that that means they don't do anything , right , okay , they just . Well , word of mouth's the best word . First they got to go in there so you can get the word of mouth .
But the customer service that you provide is where that really comes from . That's where the word of mouth triggers Right , and that's and that's a growth . That's a definitely one way to fuel your growth . What else you think is is important to fueling your growth ?
Yeah , so I think that you know , on the , the , the , the whole customer journey to me just has like a hundred different steps , right , because after you satisfy the project . You did a survey , got feedback . Well then , it's about asking referrals . It's about intentionally trying to get referrals .
It's about triggering them to , because a lot of times customers are busy with their own stuff and they will be passively recommending . So if you said , well , there was your experience in podcast videos , well , I had a good one , I'd definitely refer you going .
That's a passive reactive , but what you really would like to have is a more proactive , active referral .
That's why everybody now says well , here's our link to our Google reviews .
Totally .
You know , if you get a minute , put that in right . I'm a huge advocate with that Right . Basically , you're directing them to the site where they can leave a review for you .
And when somebody leaves a review , whether it's positive or negative , I mean the team knows instantaneous response appreciation , gratitude , hey , we're going to take care of this .
I mean , that's where you can demonstrate what's beautiful about that is that it's all the same stuff , but now it's just exposed to the public , I agree , and it gives you a chance to demonstrate how responsive you are to a problem .
I , I totally , and so many companies just ignore those things , ignore , they don't do anything with it . Yeah , like why ? Yeah , I don't understand it . Yeah , is it because they're just the owners aren't that engaged ? They're just , they don't .
Well , yeah , they get they . You know we lose focus of the fundamentals of a business right , which is just good , great customer experience . You know so because word of mouth is the greatest , like I've built many businesses on word of mouth right , I mean , but to get word of mouth . It isn't an advertising program right . And it requires great experiences .
It requires happy customers , you know , but the technology is basically the whole reviews , the social reviews , whatever it might be . It's just an accelerant of that , and so you need to take full advantage of it . So they forget that the core of their business is people saying good things about your business . I know it's so true , isn't it ? It really is .
I mean , like you take stuff for , even like Uber , tiktok , any of the big tech firms , like it's not because they did a great advertising play , it's because they found out a niche that everybody's really wanting . You know basic fundamentals .
They deploy it out there , make it super user-friendly , easy to engage , simple signup all that's customer journey easy to transact , with no thinking , impulse buying .
Then they ask for a review immediately afterward , right .
Yeah and then . But then it's like I heard about Uber not from some sort of like advertisement on Facebook or Google or whatever . I heard it from a friend that I mean you need to try Uber . That is word of mouth .
Exactly Now I hear what you're saying .
You know what I'm saying yes , I totally get that .
And this whole idea of making it easy to do business with the business is one that so many businesses don't seem to understand . Yeah , why is that ?
I don't know .
I mean , do they ever just like try to do business with their own business , to experiment as an experiment and see what happens ?
Well , so I mean I got a perfect point for that . A great example this podcast show is an exact statement of what you're talking about Right .
We're using your business to do our podcast .
We are a customer , and that was the number one thing in my radar when we first started . I'm like I have to be a podcast , a show host , amen to that , in order to understand what the hell this company is actually providing value for . Oh , I know , and if I can't feel it and see it , then I'm out of the game man .
I don't know if I ever told you this , but I do think it's relevant to our discussion . I had these clients who were architects based in Boston years ago and all they did was malls okay , and they did tenant build-outs in malls . So they designed new malls , but they also did the tenant build-outs .
For you know , whatever it is , abercrombie Fitch is going to put a store in there . You know they go in . They got to make it look the way . Abercrombie Fitch is going to put a store in there . You know they go in they got to make it look the way Abercrombie and Fitch wants it .
So what they did which I thought was really interesting they had a whole group of people who only did tenant build-outs . They didn't do the construction , they just planned it All right .
They decided they would open a candy store in one of the malls that they designed and go through the tenant build-out process and then operate the candy store and have all their people take turns working in the candy store to see what it was like to do business in that mall . That's great , don't you think that's great ? I do .
I thought that was so progressive and this is like 30 years ago . It's great , don't you think that's great ? I do . I thought that was so progressive and this is like 30 years ago . It's great . That was their plan .
I just saw something online about Home Depot is now requiring everyone on their corporate team to work in a store once a quarter as a shift in a store .
My only thing with that is I think they should make them work for like two weeks in one store , so they would have a chance to actually get good at you know and be useful . But I think it's a brilliant idea . I love it . Good move , man .
Well , my friend here , he is named Steve Cox , but are not Steve Cox , Anyway , no , Um , um , anyway , um , no , I , um , uh , anyway , he , um , he worked as we , um , as the top , uh accounting person for uh Home Depot , oh yeah , and he would go into the stores and and work on in his it is experience there . Let's start all over again .
Get rid of that . So , as you know , Steve Cox is , he's from Johnsboro .
Yeah , play football right . Yeah , I know , steve , you saw that board of trustees . As you know , steve cox is he's from jonesborough . Yeah , that's not him . Play football right . Yeah , I know , steve , you saw the board of trustees .
But let's kill all that , let's go back .
So , uh , as an illustration though of of what um you're talking about there , with the home depot plan , um , steve gibbs , who is the senior vice president in charge of accounting for Home Depot , when he went to work there from Tyson , where he was the controller , senior VP or whatever he was controller at Tyson , he went out and worked in the stores to
experience it himself . I wonder if they got that idea from Steve in the first place . Could have , but it is great to get that exposure , see what your customers are really going through well , what you're talking about is is as the entrepreneur or the leader is understanding the customer journey .
Working at the home depot or working at that mall , like you're , as the customer , you're experiencing what you're providing service . One of the yeah I think that once somebody that everybody can definitely relate to , that has proven how important the customer journey is for the growth , is Sam Walton himself .
I mean , he would go to stores , store visits , all the time .
That was a big part of what he did . He's got a store-to-store , he'd go into the sock department and talk with the woman that was running that .
But I mean , like the guy's growing the fastest growing company and the biggest organization , but he's still going to the stores because he doesn't want to lose sight of what his customer is experiencing at every
¶ Investing in Marketing for Growth
store . Yes , there's so many other things Like .
The problem is is we get distracted from all these little ancillary things that other people tell us that's really important for our business , and they're usually the people lending or investing money or auditing or thinking about buying us or whatever it is or some kind of parasitic group that's got some process they want you to implement .
Yeah and it's software or a consulting company or advisory you know , or coach , you know something like that , but you , as an entrepreneur , you've got to stay relentlessly focused on that customer experience yeah , I think that's a big part of the fueling , the growth I do think though that there are some other things that are worth talking about .
One of them is just a strategy of spending more money on marketing than your competitors . Yeah , I always say , like , whatever the industry is that you're in let's say you're in the hamburger business or whatever , and the average hamburger restaurant spends 5% of revenue on marketing what if you spend 10% of your revenue on marketing ?
What do you think is going to ?
happen .
Are you going to get more leads ?
Yeah , you're going to sell more burgers . Are you growing at the same rate , then , as the other people ? No , you want to fuel growth . You got to put some gas on the fire . Right , you know it's it , but small business owners don't believe in it . So many , they , they , they , they .
When it comes right down to spending money on marketing , they see it as overhead , and overhead should be minimized . Yeah , you know what ?
What is that about , man ?
I think that there's one reason why I think I've seen business owners not do more marketing and I've consulted on marketing for many years , I know , and I've done a lot of myself but , like I think this , the sticking point is is the is like you , they think in their mind that I've got to get a seven to one return on my investment for my marketing , or you
know what's that ratio ? How am I going to really afford that ?
And and there's no solid answer to that like the only thing the way you get seven to one return on your investment is probably after you've spent about a one to one or a zero to one return on your investment , about probably after you've spent about a one-to-one or a zero-to-one return on your investment about 20 times over .
Until you find the avenue I know and that's so true .
And then the other thing is that seven-to-one maybe that seven-to-one is really a lot better than that , because they become a lifetime customer . That's it . You can't just look at the . So you spend way more than that to get them in the first place and then you spend less than that after you get them . That's right .
You got to understand the lifetime value of the customer .
Yeah , and it's , it's , it's , it's really true . It's that fear of if I spend this five bucks , am I going to get the you know , the $35 in return ?
on that one effort .
It's not the right way . You can't , I know .
But everybody wants that , I know they do you know , in my marketing plan right now for my business , you know is in my teams , like we started on this marketing plan , I was like just start here . Like my thing was just start here's , here's , here's the money , right , let's go do this .
If it doesn't work , then we do something else right , but by the way , doesn't mean we just stop spending money and then don't do anything . That's exactly it Like I was like , and it also doesn't mean I did it one month and then I'm going to cancel that as a bad avenue .
No , no , no , you got to stick with it .
Give yourself 90 days . Do some analysis . Did you communicate ? There's so much . That's why a lot of people hate marketing , because there's not a finite reasoning as to why something did or did not work .
I know , and it doesn't always even if it works for a while , it may not work forever .
No , it won't , but the thing is you've got to invest in it .
Marketing is 100% of an investment Off-balance sheet investment is what I always call it . It shows up as an expense on your P&L .
There's nowhere for it to be on the balance sheet .
So you don't have any asset to it .
But it's real though . It is totally real .
I mean , what's it worth to have a system that allows you to spend more money and get more business instantly ? Yeah ? What's that worth to you ? To not to have to sell hard , to be able to have anybody be able to sell because their demand is so high . From the marketing that you've done , then the selling becomes easy . Then you just write orders , that's it .
It was to me that was like the difference in Toyota versus GM or something you know 20 years ago . I mean , there's like a line waiting to get your Toyotas , yeah , and they can't sell Chevy Cobalts or whatever .
Right , you know . Another thing I would say , on marketing too , is like you got to look at them as campaigns , but then there's this overarching value that you're getting . That doesn't matter . If this campaign worked or didn't work , Say it came back as zero leads and I spent $2,000 on that campaign .
Most people get so discouraged by that and I'm always like hold on team . I can promise you that I got $2,000 worth of brand exposure out of that .
Yes .
There is no damn such thing on this planet as a bad marketing . I know A marketing execution None , you can't have a bad one .
You don't know , someday , five years from now , somebody could get something or have a need and go . I remember I got something from these people that seemed like that was their business . Maybe I should look them up . Yeah , it's so true . Yeah .
And you can't be a small business entrepreneur , which is what our listeners are doing . Yeah , and think like Procter Gamble with Pampers , swathers , doppers , but marketing campaign .
Yeah .
And even if you worked at P&G for 50 years running that freaking category , right To jump in and expect that you can deploy a marketing plan for a new business venture with a seven to one return in 18 ? You know what I'm saying I know you can't expect that . it took png and all these brands years worth of investment in marketing to go .
Oh , I think f you know , freestanding inserts and and Sunday papers is going to work really well , or Dillard's back page out of the newspapers . That works for them , right , but that doesn't mean it's going to work for your business , and it's certainly not something that they did one time , a long time ago , and just worked and that's all they do .
Right , they had to invest and invest .
Experiment , experiment , experiment , constant experimentation . So to fuel growth . You've got to spend money in marketing . You've got to constantly do experimentation . You've got to know your customer journey , every aspect of it and how you can make that easier . Shorten the cycle Scale so you can handle more with more scale .
Process design to allow you to serve more customers without adding more people .
That's it , that's it .
And other overhead . So what else do you think is important to fueling growth ?
Well , I mean , I think that you know , like making the right choices of your team . You know , like the people that you have on your team , which is the makeup of your business , right ? You know , in essence , I mean , like you know , I met with one of my uh , actually my forward business partner , js bull , the other day . I was just having coffee with him .
I was just kind of we're talking about business and you know , and I was talking about hiring some folks , and he like kind of stopped me for a second . He's like man , he goes don't forget really your next investment in your , in your people . Make sure it's something that's tied to some sort of revenue generation . Because I'm glad he stopped
¶ Navigating Business Growth Challenges
me . I I've said that to people before , which , by the way , a side note , yeah , another point is . Point is that I've been doing business a long time for myself . But , man , I am just as I'm actually more now talking with folks like you in my network about getting advice . I'm not talking about sit down presentation .
I'm talking about just little trickles in conversation that I have to have that because it's so muddied up it conversation that I have to have that because it's so muddied up , it's so subjective when you're in your business , you're in the weeds of it , yep , but his statement there caused me to go .
Damn , you're right , dude , I'm glad you said overhead people right Revenue generator .
I know I need to have people at XQ , but I can get away a little bit and put more pressure in that cook . But , I really need somebody that can . Yes , I need somebody that's working to drive more , either leads or calls more deals . You know , I mean , I got to have and that's . He was totally right . Yep , you know . Yep , I agree with him .
So choosing the right bucket or department of people , I think is important . And then who do you choose ?
I think that and I was actually explaining to him just yesterday too , I was like you know something , js , that hit me is you know , with a startup , like you know , it's just different than a growing second stage , like we talked about with Tom too a second stage or third stage growth company to a major conglomerate corporate entity , second stage or third stage
growth company to a major conglomerate corporate entity , the hiring process and who you hire at what time for what reasons , is different in every one of those stages . Oh , absolutely , in the startup , I want to have a , you know , a group of non-tenure people that are just digging into what we do and learning how to do it .
Because now I was telling js is like I didn't really think about the strategy , but I started considering what the hell am I doing with my strategy , of which I'm just doing things right , because I'm taking action instead of strategy planning all the time .
I'm just hiring some folks based on my gut , right , but what I figured out is that I'm getting people on the team that can do these things I'm not ready for , like tenured leaders right now .
Right . You can't have that kind of specialized roles . You need people who are very flexible , that have a good work ethic and a good attitude , that are willing to do whatever needs to be done at the time Exactly .
And then they dig into this and then they figure out what this task needs to be done to be done well , according to our evolving industry , right , and then as we grow , then I can bring in tenured leaders . They don't have to know anything about what we do but they know how to lead people , how to get people focused , how to prioritize .
You know from a business executive type thinking that can coach and guide them and lead them , or you know they get left it up in that process as they grow and mature in business . You know .
The business evolves and the roles become different .
Yeah .
And usually they're narrower , more narrowly defined .
Yeah .
You need more expertise in the area , but you need it in like less areas for the individual , exactly , yeah , I understand what you're saying . So , yeah , getting the right people at the right time is really critical to your growth .
You know , I mean we haven't even talked about things like just you know the right people , so anybody who's real negative and skeptical at that level , because they're just going to be a drag on everybody .
One bad apple spoils a bunch , but if you've got a bag of 50 apples and one bad one , it's going to spoil it . But if you've got a bag of five apples and there's one in there , it's going to spoil it a hell of a lot faster .
Yeah , you know what I'm saying Sometimes you can take a bag of 50 apples with one bad one and somehow they make the bad one good because there's so many good ones . That's true . I've seen that . I don't know if that works with apples , but it does work with people . I've seen it .
But that's more rare it is more rare .
I won't argue with you there , it is rarer .
Anything else that jumps out at you there . Yeah , I think that there is a one last point is just community involvement , especially for a small business .
You know , I'm feeling your growth like I hear a lot of business owners tell us that yeah I mean , the reality is is like it's the chain , like look , if you're small business , you're starting up , you gotta join the chambers . Why do you join the chambers ? Not so that you can get on their website and then all of a sudden get leads .
It's not how anything ever works on planet earth . You join it and then you work it , you participate , you contribute , you invest in the chamber you invest in the community and then it reinvests back into you . It's a natural thing . People do business with people they trust , like , know and they enjoy working with .
Yeah , the community doesn't have to be local . It could be like the trade group of the client type that your business serves . Like a national HR convention , like if that's your audience , yeah , If you're selling to HR people , then you want to get involved with them . Yeah , and be known to them and be helpful to them .
Yes , it doesn't mean like sponsoring the next trade show and you have a booth there and all of a sudden you get all this business . No , it's about getting on a committee , it's about serving .
Right , exactly , render the service first . Oh , I'm telling you . Well , it's the same thing with employees Perform first , show me what you got , then you get the money , then you get paid Instead of get me the money and then I will . That has never worked for me . It's never worked Never ever will ?
Yeah , it won't , it will never work .
So that's some good stuff . Okay , we're running out of time here . We got to get to the , to the what do we call it ?
The ?
LinkedIn .
Hall of Shame .
We may want to rename that at some point , because sometimes I don't know if it's necessarily a hall of shame , but it's a hall of idiotic questions . See , if people say there's no such thing as a stupid question , no , there it is . There really are . Yeah , there's only stupid people . I don't know if you've ever heard that .
Yeah , I always tell my students I want to hear every question they have seriously , Because I always say if you have that question , odds are there's other people in here that have the same question .
Yeah , exactly .
Please ask it . There's no question that's a problem , but in LinkedIn maybe it's a little different . Okay , so listen to this one . I thought this is really kind of funny . Your team member is struggling to give feedback . How can you empower them to lead effectively ?
I mean . My first response to that is I don't know if they are leading , if they're struggling to get feedback , I don't know , my usual favorite answerer to these idiotic questions is this Greg Long here .
Yeah , he's like the most unsympathetic person .
Do you know Greg Long ? No , I don't know him at all . He's just somebody that you've seen commenting on LinkedIn and you love him .
Yes , so like you have no contact with him , he might listen to our show and be like dude , you're talking about me , I did send him a message on LinkedIn saying that we're big fans of some of your comments Okay , cool , which he laughed at .
Anyway , greg Long's response to this is you can't . They either have it or they don't . So true , it's exactly what you were just saying . Yeah , I mean anyway . Yeah , like a good , I mean like a Empower the leader to give , feedback , to give feedback Like no .
a leader is self-empowered to know that they should give feedback , or else the company he or she's not leading anything .
Yeah .
If you're not giving good feedback . Right Like that's sabotage man . I know Right Like that's sabotage man .
I know .
Anyway , it's just the latest in a long series of idiotic questions , I think the point to be bringing up the LinkedIn Hall of Shame or LinkedIn of idiotic questions , is entrepreneurs . Beware , beware , beware of the fallacy of there's this simple way to do business ? There's an easy way to do business .
Yeah , or there's a one right way to do business , or there's a right way Right , and we're here to bust that crap up because there's so many Like the only people that I know that have gotten like rich quick are the ones that are writing books and selling programs about how to get rich quick .
Yeah , no kidding . I think that the reason , though , why what you said is so true about there's not always a simple answer because it's situationally dependent . Simple answer because it's situationally dependent . There's so many different variables that work out there , yeah , that you can't give a stock answer necessarily to a lot of this stuff . No , don't you think ?
Totally is . You don't know everything about the company , the cast of characters , their history , how they got where they are well , I mean all those things .
It's like if I came to you as a market .
I got problems .
My business , my business is not doing well . It's like if I came to you and said , mark , I got problems in my business , my business is not doing well . It's not like you're going to sit down with me for 30 minutes and explain to me how to do my business . Well , right , you're going to have to listen to me for hours .
You'd want to do some investigation , thorough investigation , to figure that out .
Right , and if you're going to participate with it , that's why you know you probably want a slice of the pie when you get paid Right . You know that's how that stuff works right .
Yeah , I'd be like asking all your employees what is it about Eric ? Does he show up ? Is he here ? Is he ?
Don't ask him that .
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As I was coming back from the airport yesterday and I see you out there in your property playing around with your wild equipment that you have . Yeah , I mean , he's the only guy I know with a Mini-X with an air-conditioned cabin on it .
I'm not the only person . I'm the only one you may know .
Yeah , most of the guys I know . They got these old , crappy ones and they break down every time . It's like damn , my hose busted on that thing . I got to take it out to Siloam . There's a guy out there that'll fix it , but it's going to take two days to get the hose . And there's Eric in his air-conditioned Bluetooth stereo latex .
I mean . The reality is there's a decision to make when you're buying a piece of equipment like that . You want it to be enclosed cab . It's going to cost an extra $5,000 . But it's not about the AC or the heat . It's also about being protected from the dust .
Right , you get fatigue , you can work longer , yeah .
I could sit in there for eight hours .
Right , I understand , I'm just kidding you .
No , I know , but it's a good investment ? I think yeah , and plus with Kubota's 0% financing , bro , all right , I mean , come on .
Yeah , kubota's , they rock they do . Have you ever looked at some of these Indian companies like Mahendra ? I haven't have you seen them . They make very affordable equipment .
But anyway , we won't get into that , unless my head drew wants to be a sponsor , or kubota , we just plugged you for zero percent financing . No kidding kubota .
if you're listening , look us up . That's right now at wwwsmallbusinesscom and there's a place you could contact us and we'd be glad to sing the praises of Kubota Equipment . We've got a big fan right here .
That's it , and , yeah , I hope that our listeners bring us more questions .
Yeah .
I mean that's always exciting when we get them in . We address a lot of them on the show .
We'll throw them in the hat . We'll either give you attribution or not .
It's your , your choice yeah as the questioner yeah , but we want to hear from you and you can tell that mark and I aren't mean people . We love to have your questions .
We'll be nice yeah , we will be , yeah , we'll behave all right , um , so I think it's time we wrap this show up . Yes sir , we're running out of time , yep .
Uh , got some good guests coming in soon . Next couple . Yeah , we do have , yes and more coming . I'm excited about that , yep , and I think it's time we bring in some of the . I was thinking the other day like we should like dig back into the archives , bring in some of the folks . Where are archives bringing some ? Of the folks , where are they at now ?
Kind of thing that'd be kind of I like that . Yeah , who's the lady that uh forget her name ? that runs that does uh confident coffee , oh you're talking about amber , d amber , yeah , yeah she was a good right , yeah so I think it'd be cool now because I've seen her she's had more shops open now . Yeah , she's got one in rogers , yeah yeah .
So yeah , I think it'd be . I think we need to listen , though , to what tom said . Yeah , we should only have guests on here who are potential sponsors . That's right .
And that way we make this is our show , and you can only get on if you're kind of almost paying for it .
Yeah , we stroke their egos right . Tell them how great they are .
Tom , you're great Slim Chickens is great .
Lying ad , just loving ad . We do love it , all right . Well , thanks again , everybody , and until next week . This has been another episode of Big Talk About Small Business .
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