¶ Small Business and Magazine Publishing
Hey everybody . We're back again with another episode of If you Can Stop Laughing , big talk about small business . I'm here . This is Mark Zweig with my buddy .
Eric .
Howerton what's up , mark , everything's up . Man , did you look really , really good today ? Man Thank you . So do you , Thank you ?
I like that smile on your face .
I know that new truck you just bought really makes you happy yeah .
No , it's nice , it's a beast . It's nothing better than having a new Rahab man yeah especially one that could push anything off the road off the road .
You know they felt like that we're at stop signs I always go first .
You get a cyber truck or something . No , no f . It's an f-450 dually and it weighs about 9 000 pounds probably . It's beautiful , it's a beast it's beautiful .
I mean , actually I've been really impressed , like I just kind of keep admiring the design and the engineers you . It gives you appreciation for people thinking about what they do . I imagine it was didn't get done as fast as what . Maybe you and I would like no , never , but the end result is is quite marvelous .
Well done Ford . I'm a Ford man anyway . I like Ford , my brother's ad agency , wpp group . They used to handle they may still handle all Ford's advertising . Oh yeah , it was a couple billion dollar revenue account if I'm not mistaken . Oh , I'm sure it was Big account . Man had like 30 different companies working for Ford . You always had to drive a Ford .
You couldn't drive on the Ford lot without a Ford . Oh man , you'd be in big trouble .
Bro , you know .
Yeah , not , oh , man , you'd be in big trouble , you know , yeah , not cool , no , yeah . But the other person we have here with us who I guess I should introduce is my buddy , gavin McGee , who was one of my former students .
That's right . Yep , probably 2018, .
I want to say Somewhere right there , 2018 , yeah , time flies for me . Gavin , I can't remember anything . Gavin , I can't remember anything . Honestly , I can barely remember when my kids were born . I don't believe that , but thank God my wife does that for me .
But yeah , gavin has been out now for six years , yep and worked his stint in corporate America , for lack of a better term .
Yeah , I mean startup world for a short segment and short burst .
That's right . Right before doing your own thing , that's right . And now he is the publisher of the Fayetteville city lifestyle magazine , which is really nice . I think you're doing a wonderful job with it . What are we on , like issue three or four now ?
Yeah . So this is issue four , the invest locally theme to the issue . So that's April . It's going to land . You know it's typically lands that final week of the month in anticipation for April . So we're going to tell stories about embodying that theme .
How do we invest locally , are we conscious of where we're spending our time and and are we really investing in that fable community ? So it's been unbelievable journey and I'm excited to unpack it here . But thank you , thank you both , so much for allowing me on here . It's good to be . Yeah , we're glad to have you .
I man , I know we've met at Farmer's Table a number of times , so it's good to be in a podcast studio .
It is . I kind of miss the Gouda grits of Farmer's Table while we sit here and talk . Delightful crispy bacon there , oh yeah , but no other than that . So , Gavin , tell us a little bit about yourself and how you ended up going into the magazine business , a business that most people think is declining Right or has declined , or yeah .
And Eric and I speak from experience . He started a magazine long ago and then he and I , as a part of Zwei Group , we bought six magazines and then , just like rode the revenue decline at an unbelievable pace .
Hey , but we found some ways .
We made it work . There's always a way . There's always a way .
Yeah , I think I could start with . It is digital also .
Yeah , that's gonna be a good yeah , well , that , yeah , that's the future , for sure , yeah , but it's the current , I mean right but I mean , it's nice to hold a magazine in your hand oh no , yeah , I've actually been wanting to touch it this
whole time I got touch it touch it .
I'm touching it it feels great does it feels like I'm staying something real .
Yeah , it's nice .
So what do you think about ?
the cover .
The cover sticks out to people and I think it's classy .
Yeah , man , it's cool .
I like your , your taste in graphics and all .
Yeah , it's nice you got to get composition on here .
That would be , you know our talented photographers and just piece together a patchwork team of young contractors .
That right , we're all very aligned with creating , and so I think that is truly the theme throughout the whole piece is um , while you mentioned , you know , maybe the macro trend of print media and traditional outlets could be in the decline , um , I think , when you give it in your hands and you feel the physicality of it and down to the cover , of having that
smooth you know , smooth feeling , but really just the fact that it's different to have a physical marketing piece in your hands ? Yes , it is , and that isn't just a direct mailer flyer .
So absolutely great . Isn't just a direct mailer flyer . So absolutely great
¶ Local Media and Community Engagement
. I mean , you know , I hope that you know , with all the advent of digital and technology and ai and all that kind of stuff , that people I think that there's going to be a um the counterculture resurgence .
It's just like vinyl albums or something like everything . Once there's none of them , then the fact that you have it . It becomes more novel .
That's right .
The decline of the distraction of all the stuff we used to get . Now we don't get any of it .
Well , it's like the whole statement here on the cover invest locally , right . Why is that important ? Why do people even do it ? Right , Because there's something about being able to go to a local place , local people dealing business , you know , I mean .
You feel like you're helping your community . You're on to that . That's why you're a big Walmart supporter . Right , I love Walmart , it's local man , right , I get it .
Yeah , amazon is not local Right To our area , mark .
I know , eric , I think about you every time . You've given me several lectures on that . Every time I go on Amazon and I buy something , I have a little you think of me .
Yeah , I do , Good man .
A little tinge of guilt that I've gone to Walmartcom first , you should feel shamed , you should feel shamed I do . I go to Walmartcom sometimes too , yeah .
I feel like y'all are divergence factor and I think print media can be highly effective if it is resonating with the direct and consumer .
So when you open your mailbox , I mean I don't know about you guys , but I I'm typically fairly excited to go to the mailbox um throughout the month and then when you have that cadence , mine's usually bills , so I'm not that excited right . Sometimes you get a check , though you don't want the bills that are red but of course quit interrupting our guests .
That's one of our rules . Well , what's funny , though , is the first month this came out it's year old , in April , and when January launched it was called the founders issue . Man , that thing could have flown in the wind . It was only 36 pages , so you got to start somewhere . We started 36 pages , um could have blown away . Many were folded in the mailboxes .
So I think we're smoothing out the delivery and the distribution . Maybe the carrier routes are starting to identify hey , this is a consistent piece going to these homes , um , but when that first one came out , I think there was some wide confusion on what is what is this Fayetteville publication ? Okay , cool it's . It's going to happen once this whole year .
Right .
Yeah , we've now consistently landed , you know , up to April . Sure , and it's just been awesome to see the trend of just the routine of people getting excited about opening it up and shooting me a text saying , hey , read this issue and learn something new , and that's what it's all about , and just the craftiness of changing the stories , artwork and the layout .
That's going to keep us having that consumable content that's very engaging for the locals of Fayetteville .
Well , hopefully too , it's more enduring , like you could have that sit there for two years . Yeah , you know , if it's electronic it comes and it's gone . It's true , and it doesn't seem .
You know , this is the kind of thing you can have on your coffee table and people or they might want to save it for the design ideas or an interview with a friend of theirs . So I think that's great .
One picture after another of these cocktail parties for a public cause which the one magazine locally has like three or four pages of that , and it's the same old , bloated guys like me with the 30 year younger women toasting . You know what I mean ? It's just like you just see so many of those . And this is different .
Your content's got a little different feel to it . Absolutely what are you doing there ?
yeah , yeah , and you have it opened up to velocero . So , mark jackson , he's a local artist and , just um , his studio is absolutely stunning . Um , I like that absolutely beautiful art gallery there .
Most people would look at the cover of this and say , hey , this looks like Benville , this looks like a art gallery that's outside of Fayetteville , arkansas , but it's not . I think when we just look under our own noses , there's Fayetteville isn't a very eclectic , charming place for a reason , and those are the stories we want to source .
I mean , I think all the incumbents in the market have produced a really nice publication I have to respect you know , that there are survived , yeah . There's competitors out there . We're going to do things a little bit differently .
We're going to look for those stories you know in the brush and look , look to surface those lesser known , more rough around the edge stories that we can .
We can send our writers out , can source it , can show people that this person lives in the community alongside you and you may not have even known that that Velsero art gallery is down the street in Fayetteville yeah , so how did you get interested ?
you don't have a journalism background . No , not that I do have it . Tell us a little bit about your story .
Yeah , to circle back to how you started out , and education and all of it . The discovery for Eric too . I mean , yeah , I don't have a journalism degree , I don't have a marketing degree and I'd actually did an interview with Walden and they're asking me questions about what the Walden School of Business meant to my , my career development .
I think it's really picking up those elements along the way , depending on the business you pursue . So I know we've been talking and finished product and a more polished piece with our
¶ Entrepreneurial Journey Through Education and Careers
April product here . But to start , just a little bit about myself and not having any experience in publishing or journalism . To be quite frank , I am the youngest of three boys , was from Kansas City originally , and my family was more in the medical space and my dad was grew up on a farm in Iowa , did some very honest work there .
Love those Iowans man , they got great work ethic .
He's very much corn fed , so grew up on a farm . There was the first of his family really to move out and relocate to pursue a medical career path and he established our whole family in Kansas City , so right in the Midwest , and that's really where we made our hub .
So my oldest brother he pursued the same career path , went into OBGYN and he joined my dad's practice as well . So he took one for my myself and my middle brother that we didn't have to pursue medicine because one of the brothers needed needed to go there Carried the family tradition on .
That's right , and my mom was a speech pathologist too and then full-time job became me and my two brothers , so she had a great career there too , and uh . But just a little bit about how I was introduced to Fayetteville . That was actually through my middle brother , so I've mentioned this wide . Before . He was a landscape architect .
Um , and that was in 2013 when I first stepped down in Fayetteville , arkansas . I'm looking for schools . Um , you know I'd looked at Kate Kansas University . University of Iowa , colorado State , was my radical choice , and then Arkansas .
I mean , there's a healthy pipeline of Kansas City natives that come down to Arkansas and at that time they were doing a full in-state tuition for any bordering states . I don't believe that's still the case today .
It's discounted , but it's not full from my understanding , but I don't take my word for it . Righted , but it's not full from my understanding , but I don't take my word for it right , so there's been some adaptation there .
Maybe it was getting flooded with too many of us people from kansas and they're getting tired of us , but no , texans , we got too many of them , but not , uh yeah , not kansans , no and , and right away when I came down to visit my brother , I mean fayetteville is strikingly different than Kansas City .
I mean Kansas City is , one could say there's there's similarities , there's some congruencies to Fayetteville , but Fayetteville just it has that small town charm , that small southern town charm that you're looking for , and , um , I certainly knew that's that . That quickly rose to the top of my charts for where I want to go to school .
But it also was sort of building in the background of somewhere that I'd love to start a career because there's so much opportunity here . It's an accessible market , just highly motivated , productive individuals that want to curate a great place to live in Northwest Arkansas and more specifically Fayetteville and more specifically Fayetteville .
So I went to school at the University of Arkansas 2016 to 2020 , had Zweig as a teacher , but I pursued finance , really with the understanding that , hey , my dad was pushing poultry science .
Actually we're good at that . At U of A , we're like one of the best , if not the best , in the country .
But I've heard that , and obviously supply chain logistics is strong Number one there too , yeah , so why I chose finance was more the freedom of having a translative skill . You always need to know how the numbers flow in and out of a business . Nothing wrong with finance for sure that's right and I always had this entrepreneurial itch .
There are many sort of burned out businesses that I tried in high school with buddies and got a taste there , but I've always had that entrepreneurial itch and I think my biggest downfall is I've never known how to put myself in the exact business that I want to start , so I never knew what it would look like if it would be a technology product or a physical
product like we're sitting here today with this . But I did pursue finance with the intent of entrepreneurship at some point in my life , so I graduated during COVID no graduation , it's an online ceremony , oh man .
Yeah , that was disappointing , wasn't it ? It ?
sucks . Yeah , talking about the digital age , I mean we took a big leap there with the online graduation , so you know the job market was haywire . I wanted to reinvest into myself in that time and then kick it off in September 2021 .
In Italy , however , the border restrictions northern Italy was just decimated with COVID and the infrastructure that got postponed a full year . So I took a gap year in between there , went back home to Kansas City , met the love of my life .
We're now engaged today , peyton Awesome and she went to the university as well as an engineer at bell engineering and we never met at arkansas . She was a year older than myself , so it was great timing that . You know we had time to develop our relationship . With a pseudo gap year between . I still wanted to pursue that mba . It was just a year post-hack .
I work out at Breckenridge , colorado , being a ski lift operator , experiencing a job there .
Oh , that's fun .
Oh man , yeah , I got a Stetson hat while I was out there Did you , but you're supposed to then , in the summer , be a raft guide .
Hell , did you do that ? That's the career path .
Yeah man Ra career path . Yeah man rap guy and ski instructor . Yeah , exactly , ski instructor . Heck , yeah man , you got it freaking and party in between bro yeah , all I've been doing is working for 20 years trying to get back to that day . I know it's , it's fantastic , like you don't have to do anything .
That we're talking about , right , right , we talk about working relentlessly . If you're an entrepreneur , but if you're not , go be a raft guide and a freaking ski instructor . Man , I'm telling you , buddy dude , just chilling man , the quality of life is high .
I would say I did one of the most honest jobs on the mountain being a lift op where you're shoveling snow all day . It's good for you and one of my bosses was younger than myself so it was difficult , uh complex , there of you know making sure my snow work looks good . But really I do appreciate that honest work and that manual .
Yeah , absolutely , it's good to go through that .
It's good for your freaking soul , man .
It's great for your soul .
Yeah , absolutely . So I didn't do the RAF guide , I came back to Kansas City . I figured , hey , I got to get back in the business mindset . So I work at a local bank the largest community bank in Kansas City as a assistant there , so helping on really their retail banking side and just getting back in the swing of things to prep myself for the MBA .
Then my fiance girlfriend at the time she's like hey , I want to join you on that MBA . So her company gave her the green light and we went over there together for To Italy , yeah , For a full year , my wife's favorite country , yep Loves it . We're getting married there this upcoming September , so five months .
Wow , and it's a consortium institute , so they offer it through the University of Arkansas , but there's about 60 American universities that are plugged into Chimba , and that's what the name of the program is .
We had Italian classmates that also came back to Iowa at the tail end of the program and we got to host them down in Kansas City for a Kenny Chesney concert , which , if you get a bunch of Italians learning country music , there's nothing like that . Yeah right , it's amazing . So following that , though , I'd start interviewing .
Back in Northwest Arkansas we started looking , for she wanted to join her company again . What was ?
her company .
Burns and McDonald in Kansas City . Okay , it's a big EA firm .
Oh okay , engineering architecture yeah , yeah , yeah , yep , used to work with them . It's a wide group in several different ways , but yeah , strong firm there . Yeah , it is .
They're a top company out of Kansas City and I mean she was able to talk through the work in remote situation and then I'll land a job with acre trader . Inc has started up in Fayetteville , arkansas . So that was my referring to the corporate experience .
I mean , I I was one step closer to entrepreneurship but I was going to be a bigger piece to a small puzzle . But , like all startups I mean , there's volatility in the market shifts and we're doing our best to pivot our product offering and our investments that we had on our platform .
Just a difficult time , with sustained interest rates , private capital having different trends of where it wanted to park itself , of where it wanted to park itself , and while I thought I was on more of a potentially insulated team . I was on the more opportunistic investment profiles . So we're underwriting permanent crops in California for the most part .
What are those like ?
almonds and stuff . Yeah , yeah . He used a lot of water , though . That's all I know . So much water and pistachios .
Yeah , love them , though . So vineyards as well . That was love me some almonds , man , I'd love them .
Love me some pistachios . Same when I was a kid , you remember , when they were red , they were always dyed red and your hands yeah , red , I don't think that anymore , thankfully I didn't know about .
Well , they are a little pink , that's right . Well they , they dyed them . Oh , this red dye yeah , some pistachios can have that like purple color . But what's cool is underwriting a . You know working with some of the top farm operators out in california .
That was just fascinating to then go to whole foods and see wonderful pistachios , who we actually know , the operators that were working producing those pistachios that are just at the finished product package . So just incredible experience there at AcreTrader Carter and that whole team there .
Just awesome guys and girls there and individuals that are very motivated and they're continuing to chug . So they're going to figure it out and I'm rooting for them today . And I was actually laid off in May of 2023 . And right away I was looking at the NWA landscape .
I wanted to stay here , but I was at a loss of really what to do next and so you know I mean really getting more involved in my church community did impact my early first steps . So I wanted to figure out what is my identity ? How does , how does God want to create through me on this earth and as an entrepreneur .
So that was an integral part of my first steps was just figuring out my identity today and how can I use that in entrepreneurship .
And did you meet people through the church that were instrumental in sort of helping you develop these options .
Yeah , well , one of my current partners Jeff Martin Custom Home Builders great , great team there . They've got a full page ad in there so they do these coastal style living builds . But he's just been a mentor that I grab coffee with once every week .
Grab coffee with once every week and we just discuss um , you know God's economy and the greater um being that is in the direction that it can . You know , knowing your identity today , how does that look in your business landscape too ? So , um , really , I think that's important because I looked at other investment opportunities .
I had all that momentum with acre trader right . And it felt like I should go be a financial analyst or associate somewhere to continue to firm up those technical skills of underwriting .
But there was a part of myself where I wasn't using my voice and I don't think I was really highlighting that to the best of my ability my strongest skill set of connecting with people . So I then started to look at all sorts of owner operator type businesses .
Could I start a deck standing business or a fence , fence fencing business , really anything under the sun ? Because none of those financial roles were materializing .
And so I was like , hey , maybe this is the time that I'm called to be called to be working on something entrepreneurial in this town that there's so much possibility and I learned about City Lifestyle so that's on the cover there and I see the listing actually very cliche on LinkedIn , so it caught my eye .
I was probably getting fatigue of searching for what I should be applying myself on and I find the listing . In late July and I had an offer really awesome opportunity to join an investment firm in Kansas City .
They actually handcrafted this role to be a something on the portfolio team , but I actually said no to that because I wanted to stay in Northwest Arkansas . We had a great community , um , a great mentors like Jeff , who were investing in us and we're on the right path there and , um , you know it .
It then became important not to tease ourselves with other markets . Let's just try to find something here . And so then I sell city lifestyles , looking when I say that that's the national brand national brand so they're actually based out of Kansas City and they're looking for a local publisher to purchase the franchise rights for the favor market .
And what that entails is , for one , you're going to buy the franchise rights , so that's no success that you're just plugging it in and it's going to operate itself Right . I'm fully funded by it . It's not plug and play , exactly and I'm all .
I'm fully funded Exactly , and I'm fully funded by my business partners , of which we have 35 today , and I'm forever thankful for it because they're allowing us , affording us to , to create and produce this each month .
When you say business partners , you mean advertisers .
Yeah , so that's okay Sorry .
I , I , I just wanted to make sure everybody knows you don't have 35 partners in your business . Exactly , that's a good distinction there , okay .
¶ Building Local Business Connections
Another aspect of that syntax is when we call people to meet with a business , they're like well , you mean just to pay you for advertising . And I think that's been one of the biggest things to get over for me is I don't see myself as a salesman at all . I don't come from the trade of sales .
All I know is that I wanted to create with my hands and create a physical product and I thought city lifestyle and this opportunity to start this in Fayetteville is a good avenue to do that . So I just tell people to get level with the business a small business owner and I say that .
So I just tell people get level with the business a small business owner and I say , hey , I'm not , I don't know ad sales Like , if I only sell this as advertising , I'm going to burn out myself .
This is more about us creating a local product here in the market and I just see that as putting the right team members in place and there's been all sorts of blessings with that your sincerity and your intelligence and lack of of um stereotypical salesman characteristics probably benefits you greatly when they're selling I mean seriously , yeah , don't you think eric
totally 100 yeah because they're gonna that .
You know , you're just uh , you'll disarm people yeah , because you , you know you're not , people support you right because you're a good , genuine person , exactly yeah , and you're working and everybody appreciates that . I mean , right , he's a good looking guy , that's yeah you know , that's really kind I mean no neck tattoos .
I mean , you know you haven't seen this . Nothing says I don't want a job more than a visible neck tattoo . That's what we used to say . Yeah , yeah , but no , I'm kidding , I shouldn't say that , but everybody's got them these days except me .
But no , I can see that you could be effective as a seller , though , because you're not selling , you're just out there trying to form relationships with people mutually beneficial .
Trying to help the community and probably you know you're helping out your advertisers . You're genuinely like hey , yeah , I mean I will work hard to get your brand exposed to my readership and I mean that's what .
That's what all the other ones that are bigger don't do and they have really great salespeople that are trained right with tactical you know , uh , freaking trap , setting questions and all those types of really fancy things and say closing scripts yeah , well , that's where I've had to lean on mark for some advice and you yourself , having experience in publications , I
mean I will never step out of the role of being the ultimate person to meet with a business owner and to say , hey , is this the right thing for you to do ?
I , I don't see myself bringing in just an ad specialist that's closing the deal , because it's not about the volume of deals we're closing , it's about establishing strong partners and the fact that , hey , I'm living in this small community also , so we're going to coincide and we're going to create an awesome product together .
But I am very fortunate for the 35 and and really 35 today .
I started at 25 in January so we've had some strong growth of partners each month who have caught on with this concept and , and I think those first 25 , I mean that was the most difficult part , because I went in backing up to where we were at in the story Really , when I learned about city lifestyle .
I take the call with them and they're like hey , guy , we , we like your energy , but we're interviewing people with ad experience , marketing experience , Right , but you kind of have a motor that we like , we're going to give you the franchise rights . So I actually borrowed an initial investment from my dad .
So in terms of business partners , he is now a business partner of mine , but I just totally appreciated the finance skills that were there . Also , that right Borrow capital , apply it to a small business , scale it and then return that capital .
So in the process there of that with my business partner , but those first 25 partners between August and December that was recruiting people when I didn't have anything with me .
Right Now . You've got examples of what the product looks like and people are becoming aware of it , talking about it , so that makes it far more valuable . Right , it's not just an idea , it's a tangible something in the product .
I mean , there was limited risk really if I faded out and couldn't launch it into . Launch it , I need to cover my production costs . So we could even print 8,000 of these and set them into the Fayetteville community . Um , and you have to hit that threshold before city lifestyle will say , hey , we're going to bring you into . I mean , you're already trained .
At that point , um , which I took the training with a grain of salt Cause I again didn't want to feel like a salesy , seasoned sales guy .
So , um , yeah , there's 25 partners certainly took a risk , in a sense , of saying , hey , we're going to place our chips on you If you get this launch and we'll , we'll commit to you know this length of advertising with your , your publications .
Did the franchisor have of advertising with your publications ? Did the franchisor have ? Did they ?
help you with identifying those prospects . Yeah , so what the franchise offers ? What's really awesome is , I love the curation of the personal touch of being a local franchise owner . So you go into a Eureka Pizza . There's a limited amount of ways that that business owner would really want to show their personality .
If you think about it , um , things stay pretty in the lane . But this whole concept is all about Taylor , taylor to your market . So all the businesses you partner with are tailored to Fayetteville . All the content you're writing with your team is tailored to Fayetteville .
Um , but to answer your question , they have yeah , they support , they have a great home office in downtown Kansas City and they have a full CRM software tool .
They can kind of look and but so they might give you a hit list , but they're not setting meetings for you . Or are they setting meetings ?
for you . They don't do any of that . That's all sweat equity of being the owner locally , locally yeah , I mean coming out with 25 advertisers .
That's what I'm trying that's pretty doggone .
No , that's good at the gate .
I mean let's be honest , let's well done .
I mean that's , and you're selling something intangible , yeah , and you're selling something that's that's . That's not digital software .
All the sexiness and stuff like that . Yeah , it's not immediate . I don't want any advertising . I don't know exactly how it leads to the sale .
That's right . I need deep analytics with great visualizations and interpretation .
Yeah , everything works like that .
No , it doesn't , and I mean so you ?
beat the streets . Yeah , yeah , I mean . So you beat the streets . Yeah , yeah , I mean , the greatest strategy was not . I mean , I tried cold calling and that is not something that I fancy or I'm strong suited at , so I We've only met like one person .
Remember , remember back in the day as I grouped , that one person that was cold called up .
Yes , I mean just cold call frenzy bro oh , I mean all day microphone headset , just click , click , click yeah , we used to be taught when I started out at grad school and I worked in a firm and we had to sell our own work . We were chastised if we set the phone in the cradle .
No , you held the phone , you disconnected and you dialed Because it could waste time .
Why ? Why did you make ?
another call . It's simple you set it in the cradle . What was that for ? You know that's funny .
But yeah , Efficiency . I mean that's probably a high volume type of way to sell . It was , but it didn't work if you get it .
So cold call went for you , but you didn't do that .
I'm in my match with this one cold call . It's funny , like I would see a plumber driving down the street and I see the numbers on the back of the car and I'm dialing and I'm like , hey , I just saw your car down the street . I actually own this publication , but it's not real yet .
I mean , you know cause there's a limit , like I didn't have a product yet , so that was the toughest part .
Yeah , They'd be like what the hell are you talking about ?
When I meet this plumber and he had done ad sales when he was my same age and he was just grilling me . I mean he goes . Oh , give me your full pitch . Can I ask who it was ? I honestly forget the name . Okay , okay .
Don't worry .
It was .
I just wonder if it was anybody I knew .
Man I got grilled and I think he appreciated the grilling . I mean he wanted to teach me a little bit through raking me over the coals . But Boy .
It sounds like a guy I know is a plumber , but anyway , oh yeah , it was so at that point , then I mean , really there is a .
So what did that teach you , though ? When he did that , it taught me to have thick skin . It taught me that people get caught a lot on random things .
So how do I set myself in the lane of showing hey , this is so intentional to Fayetteville , when I work with you , we're going to have events , you're going to be in our print publication , digital , we want a social media highlight , we want to be diversified ?
How do I step out of that lane and not just be that person calling somebody , and how do I break down the barriers of somebody's aggression over the phone immediately to somebody that they think is just trying to take from them , but show that this is us growing together ? I mean , what is the point of advertising ?
It's that it brings you business , and so I think , like Isn't this ?
guy . Great , though . Can you see what I mean ? I
¶ Business Principles and Ethical Entrepreneurship
love it . I can see why you've been successful though A you're not a fast talker . B you don't use tons of cliches . C you seem intelligent . D you're you're you're not high pressure , okay , yeah . E you immediately communicate your honesty for the lack of a tangible product yet or experience as a salesperson . You're gonna break some barriers down with that .
I think it's very clear , and you did 25 right out of the gate . That's awesome .
Yeah , and the goal is to retain these partners , so to treat that well throughout . Now it's more management of how do we manage this asset . That's there . So I need to bring in the right team members as this grows so I'm not spread too thin , trying to do it all myself . So that's where I'm learning that .
And what I'm really most excited about is the next step . This next month I'm bringing in a really talented creative director who had experience with cityscapes , had experience with writing content for Sam's club , so she's very seasoned and she's going to step in as hey , can I help manage the direction of your content calendar ?
How do we , how do we work with ad partners and give them features where it doesn't all pay to play ? You know , sure , because at the end of the day , people need to learn something new about Fayetteville . It doesn't need to be all , um , you know , lost in translation of people think every piece is paid for , right ?
So that's what we're figuring out and you know , really excited for for May . And really , so that's what we're figuring out and you know , really excited for for may . And really , starting in june , we're doing a feature with mark awesome , well , hell that's why he's here right now .
You're freaking hooking him up with some free stuff . We get a big feature more .
We already had this I mean , we had this long yeah , we had this a long time just kidding me . We wanted to get Gavin on here .
I think that was probably a bad joke .
I'm kidding audience , okay , this is a small business-focused podcast , and he is an archetypal example .
I just feel like I should get paid a little bit . You know what I'm saying .
My difficulty was I knew I wanted to cover the Mark Zweig profile , but where do you start with ? Like Mark , because he's had so much success with Zweig Group , and so I think you know , eventually we want to tell that story . Oh , dude you got to .
I mean Mark Zweig's a freaking icon man . Oh , come on , eric , please . I mean you're a gosh dang freaking .
I mean you're the mentor of mentors , bro , you're making me blush , you're making me blush .
But it's a fantastic story .
The greatest thing , though , in my opinion , and why I like teaching at the university , is because of guys like Gab and then seeing how they blossom post-graduation and have a relationship over probably as long as as I live .
You know , you and I'll have some kind of a relationship and I'll see you progress and , and you know , now he's a business owner , now he's creating jobs for people , now he's helping your businesses and it's great and that's just a wonderful feeling , you know . It's a very positive feeling .
Yeah , well , it's like that's just a wonderful feeling , you know it's a very positive feeling .
Yeah Well , it's like you know . No , absolutely Like they say . You know , I mean like a lot of the deep philosophers of the day . Right , talk about , like you know , the only thing that really brings you happiness in life is helping other people . It's true .
I mean , like all the money in the world , like I think that's a good statement for entrepreneurism , right , just like what you're talking about , but also Gavin . What you've been talking about with what you're trying to do is you're trying to help businesses , like if you genuinely , legitimately , are doing that , you're creating a product that's valuable for them .
You're looking at them as partners . You know everything you're talking about . You're helping , so that helps you feel good about what you're doing . You're not trying to make a buck which people can snip that shit True , it's so true .
I mean , joey Book is now a sales manager at Lewis Automotive Group . He didn't know anything about selling cars . Matt Lewis hired this guy , I think . He recruited him . He was selling appliances at Lowe's and he just liked him and Joey never really knew much about cars at all .
But he was out there selling 250 cars a year consistently and I said to him I'm like Joey , how do you sell so many cars ? He goes , I just like to help people there , you go . I don't sell anything , I just they tell me what they want and then I help them get it . It's so simple , that's it .
But think about it , yeah it's , it's the secret to selling . It is you know ? And you , as you said , you then feel good about it , which is motivational for you . If you felt like you were hurting people and just taking their money , a guy like you's not going to do it . You're too principled right .
Yeah , that's the thing I would . Yeah , he just wouldn't even consider it . Well , the burnout would be immense if your only value is a quick transaction . Yeah , I mean , I'm gonna see this each one of my partners at a coffee shop and do . I want that encounter to be a joyous moment . That's warm , it's's . Hey , how are you doing ?
But I don't want to feel like , oh , I just , yeah , I took your money and you're advertising with us now . You're right , you're so right . I think it is an important principle and really it's a small market . I don't know how many brick and mortar stores there are .
But even if I meet with a business and it doesn't end in a partnership , that's not a closed door in my mind it's .
I mean FaceTime , Just not right now . Yeah , not right now , Maybe in six months .
Right , or maybe with another business that you get , or maybe with one of your friends who needs help with their business . Yeah , I totally get it .
Yeah , but I think you're going to be all right bro .
I think he is too With that mentality .
I mean , you know , people complicate things too much , you know , and I mean especially and I kind of applaud you too because you're also especially in today's time Mark and I have talked about it quite a bit like this raise capital , you know , go out on pitches , drive all this capital and do this big software that's going to change the entire freaking planet
earth , you know , and it's this rat race of just intangibles and you know , and everybody's counting on one home run out of 10 in a business to work out , and then everybody that all the other nine are just kind of left to face their own fears and their own failures all by themselves , but they don't ground themselves on business principles .
What I like about what you're doing is you're actually stepping into a business in a traditional sense I mean , I'd call it traditional in today's time because you've gone back and you're like okay , what's the value that I'm delivering here ? I can see it , people can see it , I can feel it , I can freaking smell it .
No , everybody likes the smell of freaking gloss print man eric loves magazines and marketer extra I do , I love it man and I man , and then you're helping the community out , you're bringing businesses together , you're bringing the public to businesses and the businesses to the public , and I applaud you on that effort .
Because here's the other thing I'd say is that you're going against the grain , which back in my day was the grain right , but now it's against the grain as far as the print pub the business that you chose , Like there's some point in your time . I mean , you're going through the process of talking to the franchisor and you're making these decisions .
You're kind of floating around not knowing what to do . But you could have gone a lot of directions , but the one direction that's for certain is that you did something that was outside your comfort zone . You didn't know really anything about . It's not something that all your friends are doing and your colleagues .
It's probably anti the advice that a lot of the people that are around you are giving . I mean that's freaking entrepreneurship man it is .
You're right , you're so right about that . I mean , that's freaking entrepreneurship man . It is .
You're right . You're so right about that . I mean , yeah , that everything . Y'all are saying that that's very kind . Um , I think there's a lot of work to do .
There is a lot of work to do , but , uh , I think it is just putting my , I think the constant always in the back of my head is as soon as I get a little comfortable , it creeps back in my , in my head , where I got to get outside and be around people , cause the more I'm sitting by my computer or working on something , it's like am I connecting with a
partner right now ? Um , and that's just a internal clock that that's always going to be there . Um , so I think it's a high achiever right there , you gotta be self-motivatedated .
So let me ask you this though okay , where do you go from here with this publication ? I mean , in this business , yeah , there's on whatever the potential is . There is a max potential for this . There is a max potential . I don't know what it is and you're not there by any means , but at some point you will hit that , hopefully . So then what ?
Yeah , that's a great . Did you have something to ?
add no , sorry .
Yeah , no , I think it's a great question because I ask myself that probably every day . And as long as I keep watering it and it keeps growing , that's really my day to day . I'm going to take that daily bread and make the most of it and try to keep nurturing this asset .
And for me , I know that life's a long game and this is probably not my final form of what I'm doing . I just don't know what that looks like next . Okay , but I would love to create a like
¶ Planning and Growing a Magazine
. The first three years of it are very important . My longest term partners are a three-year commitment , so , that being , said Wait a minute , whoa , whoa , whoa , back up .
You don't have three-year contracts on these .
So there could be a 36 magazine one and it has an 18-month opt-out free . So if I really start loosening up on my game and the product is not looking as attractive and maybe they want to go market elsewhere , they can opt out free at 18 months . But my greatest contracts are would be 36 magazines dude see .
Sometimes not knowing anything about the industry is a blessing .
Yeah , because I was probably not even going in there and everyone's like there's six magazines You'd be like you , can't sell anybody on that .
A 12-month agreement is fantastic . Yeah , that's your standard you try for that and then you go for like a quarter .
And that's why those founding partners are so gracious . I mean really , because they didn't even know what my favo product would look like , and we want to be stewards , so you signed some 36 issues before he had a product , before you had a product .
Yeah , okay , and it was really amazing leaning up on other examples of other strong markets .
so I'd take the boulder colorado magazine . Okay me , yeah , that publisher's got a very uh , that's like final form . What a benchmark to strive for . He has 120 page publication in boulders , holy cow Deep , vastly different market in terms of architecture and interior design .
I think we could rival that it's probably not as big of a market as ours , is it ?
It runs parallel pretty well . I think they're around 90,000 population . Okay .
Yeah , you're not focusing on NWA . It's important You're focusing on Fayetteville .
And there is one launching in Bentonville and Rogers and I've met with those publishers and we're you know that just further gives credibility to the brand . Right , they're able to have intimate publications in those markets . Yeah .
Sometimes it is annoying that everything's lumped together because they're , these communities , have such vastly different personalities . Right , you know ? Like right here where we are in rogers , it's just like the explosive new you know thing .
Fayetteville's keeping it funky with the university and , and you know um , springdale's got tyson and all the revitalization of their downtown area , and Bentonville , of course , has Walmart and software companies and bicycling . But they're just different and so I like that .
And we don't have to be breaking news . That's the thing . It's like we could key up the docket of stories in Fayetteville that could go for miles , that could go for years of writing stories that aren't breaking news because they're a monthly publication .
Well , if you need any help with that , please talk to me Absolutely , because I've got lots of ideas for you . I really do For like features and stuff . Yeah , Features and people and things that are interesting that are happening in Fayetteville .
Yeah , and that's . The creative director is from Fayetteville who's going to be stepping in , and so I'm excited to get her plugged in on the content calendar .
So she starts next month , may , yep . And is this your first hire ?
No , so you know , not W2 . Everybody's contracted out . But I do have three writers On contract Now , two photographers , kind of a video one-off video contractor . That's been . We're figuring out a good rhythm there and now she's going to be stepping in as creative director and we do a monthly meeting get everybody aligned .
And yeah , it's the blessing of being in a college town also that you have so many talented individuals that want to hang around a town like Fayetteville .
I know there really is a talent pool there to tap in and all these people that you know them from college , like how did you get connected with these freelancers ?
Man it's been . There's been all sorts of serendipitous moments and just being plugged in as a publisher word of mouth .
You meet folks somewhere .
Yeah , I remember meeting the photographer photographer . She just moved here from auburn alabama so she's starting her book of business . So what better way to showcase and profile but really put you in uncomfortable situations because she was a wedding photographer ? Uh , so now she's shooting a lot of product and editorial stories .
Um , so does your , does your franchisor , design this and lay it out and print ?
so that's another aspect of the creative director .
She will choose the they're called recipes but layouts , and she can totally manipulate , uh , the coloring , and then so any of the colors of the editorial stories , and then how many pictures are going to go with your creative director , will choose from a template from the franchise , and then y'all can manipulate that to personalize it and they have a lot .
They sound like they're pretty advanced . Yeah , they have that , yeah .
Yeah , I'm interested in just how their model is too . That's very interesting . That's another entrepreneurial .
It's cool learning about I mean they were founded 15 years ago and incredible growth we are . So there's 190 publications in local markets and we're probably heading over 250 wow , middle of next year . It's something crazy like the growth . But yeah , that's because there is . I mean , it shows that there is opportunity with this and there's a resurgence who owns ?
is it owned by a corporation or it's privately held in Kansas City ?
good for them and it's a great process . I love how they reinvest into the product . So our you know , if you think about each local market , they're able to provide those recipes which there's maybe not hundreds , but there is a plentiful amount of styles of laying out an article that you can choose from . Then you can swap in the colors that fit that brand .
That will really make sense in your publication . That's very cool .
I love this idea yeah it's a great thing and the personalization of your publication yeah , so you actually got some value out of the franchise instead of just creating this on your own , because a certain amount of legwork was done probably helped with , like contracts for advertising stuff like that yeah , you had your ad assertion orders , right yep , yeah , I mean
there's a whole process for that's great onboarding and getting people plugged in .
I really love the interface for a client because if you think about a lot of these small business owners like , aside from the price or the term , a big commitment of it is hey , is this bringing on a job for myself to get you my ad every month ?
We have a right , yeah , like yeah which you can provide your own ad um , but we also have an ad design team , and so that's fully included . So if you are .
It's like an ad agency built into the publication small businesses that don't have agencies , a record right , exactly , and they're , so it's like an ad agency built into the publication For the small businesses that don't have agencies a record Right , exactly , or ? Marketing people .
I think the ad designer at the home office there's a team there and they all have different accounts and local pubs that they work with . But they start to learn a brand and what that business is looking for every month when they submit .
It's like a five-step question of putting somebody down a path of getting that first ad iteration back to them and then that client can say , hey , this is not what I'm looking for at all . I want to go this direction . So you can iterate up to six times and get to that final ad that you like , but you're just submitting your collateral , your logo .
Do you get up to Kansas City to see the corporate office very often .
I've been up there a few times . Yeah , good , so I was up there , so I , oh yeah that's true , but that's good .
You should , you should . I would advise that you continue to build relationships there . Yeah , I think that that's gonna be important that'll be more helpful .
Well , yeah , and you talk about ?
this you brought this max the ceiling well , I mean you . You know , part of your journey is keep connecting , and this is an obvious one to connect with , because your ceiling may be here , but that ceiling is probably right back there .
Absolutely yeah .
So let me ask you will you be able to make a living off this thing , or is this like giving up something for the public good , I mean be honest .
Uh , well , that would depend on on the retention we have with our partners . I think , okay , you know not to not to say that we . You know , obviously , if a partner needs to go market somewhere else or it's not working for them , right , with all due respect , there we're just not going to be partners anymore . I have to appreciate that aspect .
But and I won't retain everybody , I understand that . Um , it's definitely , it's definitely a vehicle that's highly productive right now .
Um , but there were some , there were some bleak months when I was watching my runway of of a severance at a startup company shrink and I'm modeling it out and I'm like , hey , I got this much to live on and I buy an engagement ring to throw a curve ball in there .
So then it things really escalated with debt involved , with taking credit on with the ring . So I mean , all things considered , I I'd like to continue to grow this so it can be more sustainable long-term
¶ Networking and Media Publication Growth
.
I saved the big diamond for wife number three , I will say wife number two . I went to Tiffany's , which is overpriced , but a great gesture . It was a good gesture . The box was greatly appreciated and the quality yeah , but the big diamond was wife number three .
Well , I don't know if you saw the back cover , it's romance diamonds . I know , I know .
The brushes . They're friends of mine . Chris Brosh was a student .
Yeah , I love Chris Fat tire bicycle .
He's awesome , chris is a great guy yeah , they're awesome people . And his dad is a great guy yeah , and Brittany Patrick yeah , patrick's , patrick's daughter Yep , they're good people . So I love Romance Diamond . I bought plenty of stuff from them over the years .
Yeah , Once we had the back cover , that's really a prime real estate spot . That's when momentum was really trending upwards to where I was like all right , we're going to launch this thing here locally . So that was a big swing there .
good for them , good for them , for supporting you too , I know we , you know , speaking of local we watched that movie mind cage last night . That was filmed here locally . I haven't seen it yet . Haven't you seen that john malkovich and martin lawrence and my oldest daughter is a stunt double in that she's ?
The one who rides the horses for the governor character . But anyway , it was interesting that it was all in Fayetteville . There were some shots right in front of romance diamond company .
Oh my gosh , some video footage you might want to capture that . We might need to source some of those actors and , yeah , you should look into that .
Yeah , I mean there's more movies being filmed in Fayetteville . I think it would be an interesting article , absolutely , even if you just covered some of the movies and you got some stills and some of the stars that we've had . Yeah , who makes the decision on your editorial Is that all creative director now , or along with Gavin , I would guess , right .
So it might've been a , and that's the thing too . It's stepping into a media publication . You know that world . How do ? What is the ? What's the norm Like where ? How do you organize ? Your content calendar .
So I get into Excel and I make go feel every month . We do have some themes to go by . No , the themes you just set a schedule and you put it out there , because your advertisers want to know that September's the banking issue or whatever .
Yeah yeah . So it might be rudimentary , but we do have a Excel calendar that it's built out 12 months and we're filing in . That's the way to do it .
That's the way to do it , man . There's no other way . Everybody tries to get cute , ain't no way ? Editorial calendar . Definitely don't put it in Slack , oh my God . Don't put it in Slack , oh my .
God , my God . Yeah , I was on a meeting yesterday .
No , so were you .
And it came up . Okay , well , I'd like to put this in Slack , because I don't want to be emailing . It's like we don't even have freaking Slack . So we've , got to learn and check a whole new application because you don't want to send emails out to everybody . What the hell ? It's easier than Outlook my to send emails out to everybody .
What the hell is easier than outlook . My favorite is when people say well , I'm like why do you use slack ? They're like it's faster than email . I'm like what the hell are you talking about ? How fast is email .
By sending you one , you get it . It's like why is it ?
it's , it's optically more .
They all won't respond anyway . Right , they won't respond in a timely basis .
Dude , I open up Slack and I'm immediately stressed to the highest maximum . I'm with you the notifications . What are you talking ? And I'm sitting there looking at going . There's been 58 conversations and you have DMs and all that and I'm like I'll just shut it down . It's overwhelming as hell .
I just hate the name of it . It just pisses me off . It's a fun outlet .
This episode has been brought to you by Slack Right .
Mark yeah . It's a fun outlet , but stuff can get totally lost there , more than email even .
Hey Gavin , I appreciate what you're doing . I really do .
Thank you .
Yeah , I think that you're , you know , I mean it's interesting on this episode . I hope what the audience and our listeners are getting out of here right is quite a few things you know . I mean , like you're coming to the table you didn't have . You know , you don't have an expertise in a certain field .
I mean , yeah , you're using your learnings but at the same time , you're definitely learning a lot more than what you were learning right In this business . You're , you're , you're stepping out there you talked about getting thick skin and you're growing . I mean , every conversation you're having you're learning something .
You're growing and you're helping people and you're you're trying to uh , you know , I mean you're adding jobs and you're taking it in steps that you know a lot of people are just scared to death about making the moves that you've made in the last year , like 99% of the people out there would not do what you're doing .
¶ Challenges and Rewards of Entrepreneurship
I appreciate that , yeah , yeah , I mean , I think that that's just a . You know , that's what being an entrepreneur is about , right , I mean ? So I was actually talking to Jeremiah up front .
We were talking about entrepreneurism before we did this episode , and one of the things I mentioned and this will resonate with you , gavin is like , because you mentioned you got , you know your dad , right , has put some money in .
You know , a lot of folks might , and I've had this happen to me , actually , where I was like yeah , you know , I've gotten some help from my parents in the past , you know younger , in my businesses and I borrowed some money .
I've got it all paid back now , but they you know folks are like well , that's why I'm like , that's why that's not why I've been able to make it .
Because I'll tell you this they don't know you . If they think that's why , holy cow ?
Well , right , and it kind of softens the credibility and you're like , look , when I borrowed money from my folks , there was nothing that was helpful for me . I mean , it didn't like help me get anywhere . It helped me survive and get through some real shit times is what happened , right .
But now not only do I have my problems in business , but I have I owe money to the people that I'm around , and then you go to Christmas , and then you go to Thanksgiving and that's why I said they're judging . Yeah , and you're shameful , you know it's like you bought a $3,000 used car .
Can you afford that , right , when you owe me $5,000 . The only time I ever borrowed any money from my mom and dad was when I was moving from DFW to Boston and I sold my fourth house in DFW and I got a check for $1,100 . I had to buy a house in Boston .
I borrowed five grand from my mom on 12 months , 12% interest , okay , true story so , and paid her monthly and so I'm one night she calls . It's like what are you doing ? I said , well , we were ordered pizza , or whatever you can afford to order pizza . I swear to you depression era .
Okay , I mean , as far you know , as far as she was concerned , we should go get the chef boyardee yeah , why are the ramen noodles she ? wanted and make it up exactly you got destapay son yes I love it man . Well , it was never late with a payment or anything .
I you know you know what's interesting like like you know there's different ways to do that . When I was talking to jeremiah up front , I was like I donned on me . I was like , wait , man , I never really . I did borrow a couple times to do something for the business , but most of the time that I was ever borrowing it was for me .
It was because I couldn't pay myself . Yeah , I like I needed a couple of g's to get through the next 30 days . Bro , you live .
So cheap too . When you moved out of your big house and got divorced the first time I hope it's okay for me to say that to the audience but you moved into your rental house that you had oh yeah , man , and you always had cheap cars and you just didn't spend anything . When somebody says don't spend , you can just like not spend at all Tighten up yeah .
Yeah , yeah , I remember I had one of my employees come right in that time period when I'm back in that rental house and I had like a get together or something for the team . And he comes one day and he's like you're the CEO of this company .
I'm like man , man , okay , listen I'm like that right with the crazy circular staircase , the dot dot by the .
Remember that yeah , yeah , yeah , they've actually redone all that . It looks good then . Yeah , I'm sure it does , uh , but uh , no , I mean , I mean I think that you know , you know , so I applaud you on that right .
Well , I was just going to add to what you were saying to paint some more color to this situation . It doesn't make it easier , it just . The only thing that it increases the ease into is your drive to get out there . Oh , absolutely , because you're like all right now , my dad's my partner , I can't flop , I can't let this fail .
You're like all right now , my dad's my partner , I can't flop , I can't let this fail . So if there was a why as to how it makes it easier , it's that it gets your motor going more . That's right , but it certainly doesn't change anything about the grind of getting something launched .
No , that's right , it doesn't . You know , and I've seen people that would take that and they don't have that feeling that you do . Right , that's . That's another again . Another testament to you being in the right frame of mind for being an entrepreneur is that it does encourage you to do more , whereas I've seen people that would get that and then they don't .
They actually relax , right . A lot of people , man , they it's not as much about the intensity of the grind , as much about the intensity of the grind , as much as it is the longevity of a grind in building a business . A lot of folks I've seen they just can't hang with that . In my experience it is intense and long . The double whammy man .
I've always told folks to me I always use it like owning a business is like a marathon sprint Because you are going as fast as you can and you have to go a long time . You know as hard as you can , and there's a lot of folks that can't handle that you know .
And so if you relax because you get some capital , actually you're doing the opposite of what you should be doing . And so if you don't have that innate sense of okay , now I owe and I have to pay back and I'm obligated to this , and you can handle that pressure , then you might not be an entrepreneur , right ?
So this is exciting , man , I that , um , I would love to to help you any way I can , and this is a great resource , eric yeah , I'll make sure you're set one too , right ? yeah , yeah , man I'll blood , my every month . Yeah , dude , and I'll read your letter from the publisher .
Yeah , absolutely , that was always my favorite part of the magazine let her express yourself yeah keep it refreshing in there .
Letters to the editor are always my favorite part of the magazine . Letters to the editor are always my favorite parts . It's the domain of the insane .
Those who write them ?
and those who read them . It's been great having you on here , Gavin . I really appreciate you and what you're doing for Fayetteville .
I just want to say thank you all very much . I love what you all are doing with this podcast . I'm going to be tuning in . Yeah , we're changing the world , bro , absolutely .
One business , one listener at a time . Right , that's right .
Speaking of listeners , yes , if you enjoyed this show , please like , subscribe , share , post , repost , send us a question . If you like something in one of our episodes , then make a request , bring somebody back in . Do you have an idea for somebody that we should have on the show ? Let us know .
I can promise you one thing If you do send an email to the email on the website I think it's info at bigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom you will absolutely , 100% positively be in touch with Mr Mark Zweig and myself . We both get it , and man Mark , don't play when it comes to email time . This ain't Slack baby .
We will respond to you .
Mark is one of the fastest responding folks I've ever met in my life . It's intimidating , so shoot that and you will get his response .
Hey , and beyond that , if you just want to send us a bunch of money and be a sponsor of this , where we'll talk you up constantly how throughout the show .
I just brought one publication .
I didn't mark , how is it that he's got 30 plus partners and we don't ?
we don't have good sales people . I mean , what can I say ?
I thought you were , so Did you think I was , so I did .
It's a miscommunication . That's what happened .
I know we should learn from Gavin . We should we're just not that serious . It's the truth of it .
We get some of our partners on here . I have 35 that I could put it out there .
They're all small business owners hey , if you don't mind , if you can go back out to reach out to them , offer them some opportunities , yeah yeah , but we never .
We don't take just anybody . I'm serious , we don't take just anybody . We have rejected some people , many in fact . We've rejected all of them . We're we're looking , looking , we're looking for good . We're looking for people that we think have something to offer our listeners , and obviously the same thing applies to any sponsors .
So I appreciate that .
Yeah , but uh , but anyway , thanks so much , gavin , and uh , we'll see you around and I look forward to our next breakfast . Yeah , farmer's table , We'll be there , and meantime , this has been another episode of .
Big Talk About Small .
Business . Alright , we got Gavin to join in in the end .
I love that . It's good .
Y'all be good . See you next week .
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