¶ Building Relationships in Business and Design
okay , everybody . Um , we're back with another episode of big talk about small business . Uh , we've got a guest here in the studio with us today , and that is becky charton . And uh , hey , becky , welcome to .
Hi , thank you for having me .
Well , I'm sitting here with my partner Eric as well , eric .
Howerton . Hello Mark , thank you , I'm doing great . Appreciate you , man . I appreciate you . I'm excited about this one .
Me too , hey , no , I am too Becky's a character , okay , oh .
She , she's a character . No , she is In a great way , in a great way .
I can't wait to hear about it .
So Becky , though , is an interior designer , and she's got a very successful business , and I know it's got an unusual name Table Setters Inc . Yeah .
Tell us about that . Yeah , like it's a name that's like sentimental . I'm a huge like fan of sentiment . So I've had two careers in my life and will probably have another maybe more than one , if I live to 105 or something .
Nothing wrong with that . The life's too short to do the same thing forever .
That's right .
Eric and I have changed a lot .
I know I like that . I like that . It's inspiration . So my first career , when I was retiring from that career , my mentor said that we were like table setters we prepared the feast so everyone else could dine and enjoy the feast , but we set the tables .
I see .
And so at the time I was also doing a lot of wedding coordinating , Loved that industry . Honestly , I would have stayed in it if it wasn't a weekend gig .
Yeah right .
But started doing both and was like you know what I can hang on to design it's during the week , but that's where it came from table setters and I've had a hard time letting go of it . Although it doesn't speak to all that we do , I do love the name , so we go by TSI a lot . Okay , yeah we just shortened it a bit , I see .
Well , I thought like it came from setting tables professionally or something .
Yeah , we came from setting tables professionally or something . Yeah , we do that , you know .
So would you say that it's kind of the meaning behind it with interior design is like you're really like your home , or the environment is like if you set that table it's like you're hosting .
Yeah .
You're hosting life Absolutely .
Yeah , yeah , like we like to say that we really love spatial design . Right , and because we really are , I told the client one time and he was real reluctant to hire me . He was recently divorced and wasn't sure that he should be doing his house , designing his house . Didn't know he had his own style .
Yeah .
And I said this will work if you let me know you . And he's like I don't know what you mean and I was like we're relationship based , like if you don't let me know you , I can't create this home that works for you , this environment that works for you .
And it's the part that , like it is a core value sorry , an EOS thing , but it is a core value , that it relationships first .
And so , like I tell people , like honestly , I really don't care about your lamp , don't care about your sofa , like . I love relationships and it's really what drives me in my business . So how does that work ? How ?
do you get to know them ? To start like , yeah , it's a dance at the beginning and , um cause , we've taken it like even farther than just like getting to know our little clients , like it's also about our relationship with our vendors , our subs . Like if we build these relationships and some of them we don't align with .
You know you might still have to work with them over a three year project , but some of those people then go on with you in your , in your career , because you built this relationship and you're aligned , so you just get it .
You get each other , you want to do more work together and so at the beginning , when we first get a client , it takes a lot of time and it's a lot of conversation .
It's going to , you know , coffee , it's like sitting down in their home , like having someone sit down to meet with you , it's bringing them into your space and I just , I think there's just this , yeah .
You've got to have that in order to be able to influence them to do what they need to do , right .
And it's such an intimate career . I mean like we're in people's closets , you know , and I want people right , and I want people right , and I want people to trust us and I feel like we've built that over 26 years .
I'm so proud Congratulations , thank you . You know , I think that , like on this , this relationship discussion , right it is a lot easier said than done . I don't . I think that you know it's one of those things that can business that , where people kind of have heartily say that and they know it's important , right , yeah , build relationships .
But it seems like that you really take that down to the right level and you're investing your time and , yeah , and , by the way , if you're running a business like , you need to know how much time you need to invest to establish that relationship , because that's all kind of part of what you need to be charging .
Yeah , that's true . It's all part of your cost . It is yeah To do what you do .
We call it our discovery phase . You know , and there's parts of that that just aren't , are non-billable . I took this course over COVID about marketing , because I didn't think I marketed , because I have a marketing plan , and then I took this course and I was like oh , we actually do market .
We just didn't call it that , but it is that discovery phase where some people take a lot more time I've spent a lot more time with them and then some people just get it right away . But when I look , I mean what's interesting about our business ?
When I look at our clientele list from these 26 years , it's shockingly small and I'm like how have we done this for 26 years ? And it's because we call them lifers , so we just have people that keep coming back around and like hiring us for all the things . Like our three-year vision with eos sorry is um is uh .
Our three-year vision when is the magic bullet for everything . No , I'm kidding I know I just had that , I'm just gonna .
You just said to throw that in , did you like ? Oh ?
she's been bulking you , I've been drinking the kool-aid and it's yummy .
God um but , five years you'll never hear about EOS . I know It'd be like TQM . Remember when we all went through that .
No see , I don't , I've already forgot .
Okay , well , I'm older than you , that's why you don't remember . But go on . I'm sorry , we shouldn't have interrupted you .
No , it's fun .
I don't even know what we were talking about now , so there we go , but . But we were talking about relationships and marketing .
And yeah , you're talking about you didn't realize you're marketing , yes , yes , when , when you're spending that time with those clients and we , so we call them lifers . And so these clients , as we really look at our clientele , they keep coming back . I mean , I had one lady um and she they'd never hired a designer .
They hired us , about maybe five years ago , a referral from my um av company , like of all things , but they bought a house we had done um , they call , never had hired a designer . And now she's like becky , you do know that you will be with me the rest of my life , you know , and we're wedding .
Yeah , wow , like , and we're diverse of our three-year plan is to start working generational , because my very first client , her son , just hired us to do his office building in Little Rock .
That's great .
Yeah , yeah . So that's a cool like milestone , I think , in business to say now we're working on a second generation of clientele .
Yeah , that's really cool a second generation of clientele .
Yeah , that's really cool . Well , it seems like I mean , I'm sure you've experienced this in the residential area in particular and I know that's not all you do , obviously but it seems like people get this idea .
It's like I saw this room on Pinterest and I want that thing like that or that room , but it doesn't go with anything else and they have no plan for their house . They look at each area in isolation , with no sort of grand scheme and context for the whole thing yeah Do you discover that a lot .
A lot , and I think even early on , when , like HGTV and do it yourself like movement , like just really it . It hurt us , but it also catapulted our industry both , if you ask me because all people feel like it's attainable . Now it's not just this level of people that can hire a designer . So I love that part because I love those small projects .
We don't do as many anymore , but I love them , um , because they're super grateful . They happen really quick . They they like trust you a little bit more , um , versus like these big budgets with you know lots of exposure and that kind of thing .
But I think the key for us when we get that like that whole , like I want to I'm going to take it a bit farther . When someone's like I want this exact thing , like kelly worstler made this , you know vanity and we want to build it exactly like this .
Like for us , like we don't , we don't play , you know keeping up with the joneses , like you know , I mean . Like we want to create something that's yours . What's your style ? Let's develop your style , um , and and go from there and it is . It's a challenge and they're not our right client .
We don't like copycats . That's like trying to be a famous musician and singing other people's music and never writing your own . You're only going to go so far with that .
Yeah , at some point you've got to be . Even though there's nothing new under the sun , like our inspiration comes from somewhere , like you still have . Even though there's nothing new under the sun , like our inspiration comes from somewhere Sure Like you still have to be original .
Right , it's the way you kind of put it all together and the combination of elements that creates the environment that you're .
Definitely Not traditional . If somebody went down that road , like the Pinterest road and everything , I mean . My experience because I've done something like that right is that when you get done with it , you're out of place of what you just created or tried to create . Right , because it is not you .
Yeah , yeah , you know and I like it .
I like what you're talking about . Like that because it's not about knowing all the new trends and what's the new styles . It's right . If you don't end up with something that you walk into .
Yeah .
That you feel comfortable in , because you feel your identity there . You're not going to be happy with it .
No , it doesn't matter what you buy . It's like you have to build your own story . You know you talk about like I've been learning about marketing and how people like stories to attach to what you're trying to sell Storytelling .
That's the big thing . Storytelling that's another buzzword , storytelling and what about experiences ? It's true , let's have an experience into that , okay , I want to lean into that one . And then , by the way , pivot . Okay , yeah , pivot , pivot yeah , yeah , yeah yeah and no , but you're right though it is .
It is the stories , it is the , the building of the , the yeah yeah if you can yeah , you can help someone like that's the thing , like it .
There's not a style we do . There is a method in which we do design , like people say what's your style ? My style is like order it's very placement yeah scale but , it's not tuscan , it's not modern .
It's not modern .
It's not these things , it's how we do it , but because your home needs to be you , you need to go in . In fact , I have a good story . Can I tell a story ? Please , can I tell a story ?
Mark , of course .
Can she story tell , Mark ?
Let's pivot to your story Go .
I'm going to pivot to a story . Go Hit it , becky . I'm going to pivot to a story that I learned through EOS .
No , when I first started and I was like I mean , I'm not educated in this field , like did not finish college , like worked hard , had multiple jobs , all I wanted to do was work because I loved my work and so I learned by doing so , like I really have like a lot of life lessons to get to where I am .
But one of the first houses I did , I finished doing this dining room and it looked just beautiful and I was so proud of it . And I walk out and the client's walking out with me and the neighbor comes over and I'm getting in my car and I've said my goodbye and I hear my client say come in and see this amazing dining room .
I just did , and I thought she just did , like she just did the dining room . Wait a minute , I did the dining room . So I'm driving away like processing this conversation , thinking how , why , what's your , what's wrong ? What's the deal ?
And I realized like for me to be successful , every time I walk away , they should be bringing their mother-in-law , their neighbor , the plumber , to see what they have done , if they say they did it , then that was a successful job no , you , you're right , but I understand it's kind of a blow to your ego in a way .
you know it's like , well , you're taking credit for yeah , that isn't right , but that's the goal though , right .
It's their home .
Yeah yeah , it's not your design , it's their home . It's their home .
Right , it's . That's the success .
That's a good slogan for you oh , what is it ? It's , uh , it's , it's not it's your home , not my design yeah , I like that yeah , a lot of architects need to learn that one .
Yeah , they do . They want to impose their will on on you , whether you like it or not , because if I saw that , I'd be like I don't like that because it is my freaking home .
Dang it .
It's my money and you're yeah , that's right , and you hired becky yeah okay . So yeah , I need somebody to help me not to owe me yeah well the thing is with with this design stuff , though it seems like people get wedded to these overly thematic .
¶ Evolution of Design Styles
You know , like 15 years ago , everything was craftsman . And then I found myself , like I did this one house where it was super craftsman-y , it had all the elements exposed rafter tails and big overhanging eaves and tapered columns and all of it . And then inside I started doing the same thing and we made all the furniture and the cabinets .
It got so craftsman-y and so hard-edged that I went . Honestly , I hated it . It was like anything you put in here that doesn't look like it came out of the 1920s bungalow book , right right , looks like crap , didn't work , and now today it's like even my mom , who passed away at 103 in November last year . That's a fact , congratulations .
Within the last couple months . She says to me one day on the phone . She goes what is it with every new house ? It's white with black windows . It's a freaking farmhouse thing . I go , I don't know what it is but they're all doing it , but people get on these kicks and it seems you've got to break them out of that , don't you think ?
Because it gives you so much more flexibility , it does Like where you go from there later .
I feel like there's like . I tell people all the time there's like two different kinds of designers and I relate it to fashion , which I personally love , fashion just in its Sure .
I'm hanging on to it .
You're just in design and everything as my hobby , you know , because it's my way of creating personally . But , um , there's two different kinds of designers and it's like fashion . So there are designers that , like you see their space and you're like I know who did that . Like it's obvious , like that's why I wanted to meet you .
I love the houses you were doing . They all look the same . But I was like , oh my gosh , like he does such a good job , I want to meet this guy . Um , and so they that similar to like carrying a bag that has a logo on it right , or a belt buckle with a logo , and there's nothing wrong with that . It gets boring after a while .
There's people that like that .
Sure .
Whether it's status , whether it's they finally arrive , like whatever it is for them .
No , you're right .
And then there is design that is unrecognizable . Right , it's just good .
Yes .
And it's good and it's appropriate and it's tells the story , it's individual , it's owned and um , that's what we do . So if you want to sign up for like the time and the effort and building a lifelong relationship and become a lifer , you know that's our lane , like this , this is our lane .
You're like .
You're like a tailor , yeah you're the tailor , yeah it's easier to get repeat business when that's the way you're doing it , because otherwise , like I did that , I don't want that . Now I want something else yeah . But yeah , I totally get that . So let's step back for a minute , though . You started to tell us early on how you got into this business .
What did you do before ? Yeah ?
Okay , so I worked . Let's see I started . Should we go back to fourth grade when I taught ? Do whatever you want . I was just taught like . I was raised in a very like small minded I'm going to say environment . It was a religious environment , it was very sheltered and it has done me great .
And then there's been a lot I've had to learn coming out of that . But so I worked like three jobs in college . Didn't know why I was going to college except my parents were making me and I would rather be at work Like I loved work and I realize now it's because , like that's how I learn . I learn by doing Sure .
And so , like , book learning was really difficult for me , and so I was working at a church and then they hired someone to be my boss and my boss asked me to marry him . About four weeks in I thought my life is ruined . I either have to marry someone I don't know know , or I have to leave a job I love .
So I kept the job and married the guy and so I say we dated our first 10 years of marriage , but anyway , so we ran this great youth program . We had youth camps , summer youth camps , and it was loads of fun . It was project-based , which I realize now I thrive on . I like a beginning and an end . Yeah , um , it was loads of fun .
It was project based , which I realized now I like , thrive on . Um , I like , I like an end , a beginning and an end .
Yeah , it is .
I get that totally yeah , and then when you see them in the rear view mirror you're like okay , that's done .
Now we move on to the next one . It's like that endorphin to get with a check mark , cause it's like oh , I did something . I accomplished it . We understand that totally . Yeah , both yeah , love it Love it , love it , love it .
And so towards the end of that , like we knew that wasn't our life forever , and so we retired , and then we were just like wandering , you know , like what's next , and I had decorated a cute little house and decorated everybody who got married that I knew in my church and all the people I was doing weddings for , and so just for fun , and someone said you
should go work at this furniture store and it was a new concept , they were called Norwalk and they had like frames , but then the designers at the store would help you like pick the fabric and customize it .
Sure .
And so I spent about three years there and learned a lot . Now I also will tell you there was pain because I didn't know how to be in public . Like it was such a big learning curve , like the pressure of sales and it was wow . Some of the stories like are amazing from that time period .
But I got to see the front end and the back end hated sales felt like I was lying so they moved me into like the back end where I set up vendors and learned how to um like manage the warehouse and Q you know , just check all everything that was coming and going and place all the orders . So I learned the back end of design basically the whole process .
That's probably was helpful .
It was and I got , I got that part and so , um so I was still pretty miserable cause I wasn't being creative , like it was . Just it wasn't the right fit , wasn't the right people , but great education and um so , uh , a friend said hey , I'm dating this guy , his mom , my first client .
Now I'm working for the guy she was dating , but my mom , she needs like someone to do her whole house . Can you do more than furniture ? I was like sure I can .
Yeah sure .
So I was like , yeah , I'll sign up . And so my husband's like , listen , he had a business degree . He's like we'll set you up a business If you can make $12,000 the first year we can make it .
I said okay , $12,000 .
Okay , okay , I can do this . So we got a DVA . I went to town , started that first project . That was 26 years ago and I made $12,500 .
Nice , dang it , you did it yeah .
Awesome , you crossed the threshold . Good job the . Yeah , you crossed the threshold .
The next year I doubled , went 25,000 .
But anyway , so that's how I got started and I just it was that honestly I call it the table setters family tree , like when you look at my client base and like how they it's referral based , because I don't market Well , I do , but just so the people we're working to for and you look at it , it is so like connected , like it's it's not this grand , huge
tree because , like you can see , hey , this is Arkansas Becky .
Everybody's only two degrees separated from everybody else .
That's right . So it's such a great place to do that .
You know what you're talking about . You're right
¶ Building a Successful Business Journey
. So is Kevin . Was he the guy that you met ? Then ? He was the guy . Oh my God . What is still on the first husband . Holy cow , that's unusual , wow .
You know what that's ?
four weeks , that was a quick decision Four weeks and .
I was like , wow , this has ruined my life . Is how it started . It took me three days before I said yes , let's call Kevin in here .
Kevin .
Tell us how you ruined Becky's life . Tell you , that's funny .
Yeah , yeah , so we're .
He's at the window .
He's so cute . Yeah , so we're at 30 . What year is this ? Yeah , we're 34 years .
Wow .
Yeah , thank you .
Can I mention something Because I think it's important the audience to ? There's a lot of folks that get into wanting to start their own business or even people that start out , they're young in their career . Feel this pressure that they have to figure everything out and they're young in their career .
Feel like , feel this pressure that they have to figure everything out and exactly what they want .
Exactly .
But that was not my experience .
It wasn't yours .
It's not yours , Like there's a lot of time , Like I look back and I'm like what , how did I get here ? Like I studied photojournalism . But yeah there is a thread so like I've been realizing my old age .
Now , like what is it ? You're getting very introspective I am .
Yes , I am , I'm looking back starting here a second .
I have a lot . This is you're just starting .
It's great , I kind of like it because I'm like , I'm like what I like . What I like is content . I like communications . Sure , and people need content to communicate , but I mean it all threads back , but I mean goodness sakes the software business is related to that you provide a content to customers , and this is yeah , this is for sure .
I mean it's all related .
But I mean , the point is , there is no plan and as you go in business what you did , yeah , yeah you had this opportunity , you took it . Oh , I like that . Oh , this builds another one and this refers here . Yeah , you don't have to have a freaking 20 freaking sheets spreadsheet that it calculates every freaking pen .
I swear I had this discussion with the with in class last week you don't with with my guest speaker is a 37 year old woman and she owns a 3pl . Okay , it's very successful . She was one of my students and her husband 3pl yeah .
Third party logistics provider thank you for the acronym clarification .
You know what this part of our mission is not to use acronyms mark she's got 90,000 square feet of space and she's got a business that's going to do six million bucks this year and revenue she's . But anyway her husband is and it's gotten into real estate .
They've got maybe 15 properties and she said he wants to have this strategic plan that you follow , exactly like this . And she goes it's not like that . You've got to be responsive to opportunities in the market and if you're too rigid then this doesn't work . You know , boy , you have gone so far to come to that realization Totally .
But I want to go back to Becky's business for a minute Now . Tell us so . That was 26 years ago . You started it . You've got two locations now , right , fayetteville and Little Rock . Tell us about the character of the business today and what you're doing , because it's really . The scope is increased dramatically .
Yeah , so you know from I say you know I started in my guest room and then I went to a garage apartment between my two neighbors I call them neighbor neighbors and you know and now I have two offices and I have , you know , just a team of seven . So it's not crazy crazy big . It's very manageable .
Um , I would love to be about 10 , but I think that's my , my threshold probably . Um , and yeah , we've been able with the talent we have , and I really contribute that to being in Northwest Arkansas , like so grateful I had a job up here in 2013 .
A client project .
In Fayetteville , yeah yeah , and it was someone from , you know , central Arkansas and they were doing a project here and they brought me up to do the project and then I was like , oh , and then I had another big project .
It was a referral from the cabinet people and then I got another referral and did that job and it was interesting because it's I kept thinking I was just doing projects in Fayetteville and you know , Kevin's like you've spent 186 nights in Fayetteville , Wow , Like you know , like maybe we should buy a place there .
And then one of my lifers said we're going to build a forever home , and so I was like , okay , I'm going to , I'm going to take Ruth . You know , this is like I'm going to be here for a while .
And so now I would say , because of being here , I think there's so much opportunity here Like it is insane , the opportunity in Northwest Arkansas and there's so much missing in my industry here , like the support for my industry , that there's just so much room for growth still .
I agree . I mean it's unbelievable , it is .
It really is , and so I feel like I have been able to build like a rock star team because of the location .
Yeah , sure .
You know , like so one of our , one of our our designers , like you know , moved here . His husband got transferred here for a really great opportunity and he came with him and he was a shop owner there . He had been a designer like does beautiful work and he didn't want to set up shop again .
You know , I got him and then we just hired a new gal who is amazing , and she came from Seattle , owned her own business 23 years . You know , they're moving back , and so I feel like the location and I feel like that's been something I've already done it's like I will just go wherever you need me to go .
I mean , I've done jobs in Smackover and Paragould . You know like flown to Paragould every Wednesday for a year and a half . You know like just whatever needed to happen to like serve those opportunities as clients and so so I think that's why we have like this great team now .
Give us a sense of the quantity and size of the jobs that you guys are doing . Yeah , ok , yeah , okay , or have done .
Yeah , it's not . I don't want anyone to think like we're like you know it's . I mean , I think we have 16 projects right now . We might work on eight over a course of a week and some of them are ending , some of them are starting .
¶ Raising Rates for Small Businesses
Our sweet spot is to have like a full build , like we love beginning to end , like we love helping you decide what property to buy .
We love helping you build a design team .
All the way to , like picking the perfect trash can for the powder bath , like the whole thing . You know , because that's the relationship , yeah Right , like you spend that much time with someone , like you go fly to meet an architect in Austin , you go on shopping trips with clients you , you know , are there to celebrate birthdays , like that .
That's how you build those relationships and you become like a part of their circle you know so most interior designers .
they either sell their time or they sell furniture . I mean or some combination of both Do you do both , do you ?
Okay , yeah , yeah , the industry . Like I have a business coach , which is a whole other great story out of Denver , colorado .
Is this the one I read about who told you to double your rates and you did it ?
Yes , oh , that's a good story too . Yeah , that's a good one .
I'd like to hear that , because I think that is a problem for so many small businesses . They think being cheap and being busy is the way to get ahead , whereas it's not . It's better to be expensive and do a good job when you work .
I don't want to remember that Good word . It just is , it's a better strategy for a small business , yeah .
Better service , better quality , but a higher price ? Yeah , because you can't compete just as the cheapest . It's a race to the bottom .
Yeah , yeah , so true , so true . That's a good reminder , good reminder .
So this business coach of yours , she's the one that said you need to raise your rates because you're busy but you're not making enough .
She did yeah , yeah , you want me to tell that story yeah , yeah Tell us . So I was it started with . I would say that it was probably one of the biggest pivotal points in my business and it was nine years ago and my husband's entrepreneurial as well .
So , like we said , we both left one career and we both found our way , and he started a business about the same time I did , and so about 10 years into his business , the rug got pulled out from under him . He lost his dealership , and so what was he selling ? He sells microscopes .
Okay , yeah , wow , that's pretty cool Pretty cool industry .
Yeah .
And so that's pretty cool , pretty cool industry , yeah , and so it's a small industry . Micro . Yes , it's . Yes , sorry , they make . Yes , he has . I'll let him tell you his tagline on that . But so I realized that like I needed help , like I had done all I knew to do in my business and I felt like there was opportunity .
But I didn't know how to get there . And I've been going to High Point Market and always sourcing , you know , because we are so limited here . And so I was like I need to like go to these free classes when they offer them , I should like go get some education .
Yeah , the education program , right , and it's free , right . Yeah , like , go get some education .
You're on here , right , and it's free so I went to this panel . They had a panel of designers on the stage and there was like 250 people and they are talking and other people are talking .
Sorry , this thing just talks randomly , I know .
They thought I asked a question or something , which is fine . They just want to be a part , so anyway . So I went to this talk and they had this panel and I've never heard anyone talk like out loud about our industry and the struggles being a business owner in the industry .
Like people talk all the time about like you know , you ordered the wrong sofa feller , whatever but like these people were talking about like do we enough ? People aren't paying us in time . Like and I'm like they're saying this out loud I mean , who's running this show ? Like I need to meet this person and um so gail doby . She's um a business coach .
She'd been in the design field , has a finance degree and um , she understands your industry , she gets sure . And she has this goal to make like I don't even know what her number is so many designers in this amount of time . Basically , you know , over $2 million businesses . Like her goal is to make us CEOs .
She said you know , this is an industry where so many of us don't know how to run our business . We don't and we don't have the tools , and so that is her goal and so that's really . I was at a .
I heard her and I was like I'm just going to sign up for this person blindly and went to her summit in Denver , colorado , and really that is where she has a VIP program where she does this really intensive work on your finances . I took my accountant with me . I went back like three months later and took Kevin and I remember he went to the bathroom .
She's like is it okay , we're working on his business instead of yours ? I'm like , yeah , they're both our businesses . Yeah , yeah , it's okay . And so , um , that was like the pivotal point for me , because she really like has this whole program and systems for specifically our industry and she is the one that said raise your rates .
I'm very skeptical of business coaches .
Yeah .
But I think if you've got somebody that knows your industry , that's a different matter , because every business is different . It can't just be in my mind , at least I . You know Zwei Group . That's all we do is work with architects and engineers .
So we did that on a big scale , yeah , and so I totally understand that and I always felt like we understand your business . If we didn't know if we didn't understand your business . If you were a liquor store or a car dealership or something , I wouldn't know what the heck to look at yeah you know , yeah that wasn't our bag Right .
You've got to be specialized , so obviously this woman really did help .
She did .
And she convinced you that you could charge more and you wouldn't lose all your clients , right .
I'm telling you you will make . First of all , her program was like hiring an employee and I was like I can't do this . But I signed up and she said you're going to make this money back . And she said you need to raise your rates by double and I was like okay .
Most people would be afraid to do this .
There wasn't , like you know , this formula . It was just the information . You know and then a deadline and I was like okay , so like , as I was like how do I do this ?
Went back to relationships .
I was like , okay , I can do this . People that have never hired me , that's easy , this is what we charge . They're either going to hire me or not hire me . But then I've got these people that are lifers . They're like what do I do with them ? And I was like , okay , if this was happening to me , I would want some time .
So I'm not going to say till the end of your project , because they don't end . So I was like that doesn't work , so I'm going to give them six months .
Okay , I like that .
Okay so . I went and I met with and they were three men that all had their own businesses and I'm like I can do this . And I'm like I can do this . And so I went to one and he was like , okay , you're going to raise by double .
And I was like , yeah , he's like okay , you know , we really need to be raising our rates too , so like , don't you start charging on that and I'm like why , Like you do . And then you know , I go to the next guy and he's an attorney and I'm having to tell this attorney .
He's already charging 600 bucks . You're cheap .
What you charge . And then the next guy was an entrepreneur himself and owned all these clinics and said the same thing Like okay , who have you told ? Like how are they taking this ? I mean it was like it gave everyone permission , you know .
Well , they wanted to see you be successful too , because you have a relationship they value your work that you're doing . It's just , yeah , it's , it's such a pivotal part of this whole thing .
It's like you know , I think a lot of people like again , you know I teach entrepreneurship to undergrads and a lot of them think again , you know I teach entrepreneurship to undergrads okay , and a lot of them think well , the way you buy stuff in a business is you buy the cheapest , you can get , you beat everybody down .
And you know , walmart has sort of perpetuated that in a way in northwest arkansas , that sort of thought process yeah , yeah , but it's certainly not applicable to all businesses it's not at all .
It's the , the discount shop , you know store .
It's its business mission to sell you money . You want better . That's right . That works for DIY people .
That's right , totally
¶ Building Client Relationships in Business
works . But in business , most of us , we don't buy anything based on what's the cheapest . You buy from the people you like . You buy from the people that are easy to deal with . You buy from the people who always deliver . You buy from the people that are easy to deal with . You buy from the people who always deliver .
You buy from the people who help you when you're in a bind and jump in .
Yeah , you know the price is one factor , but it's like way down on the list .
Yeah .
And I think a lot of people just don't understand that If you're a quality provider , the price is not usually the sole determinant .
It's like are you saving them time ? Are you saving them pain ?
Yes .
Are you delivering what they want ? Do you have an expertise and a knowledge base ? It's the value .
It's like we're dealing .
We always dealt with our subcontractors like that and I know these are all the people that you're dealing with . Yeah , and it's like do you want to call , you know , the cheapest electrician right now ? You want the guy that yeah , you know you need to put two outlets there in a hurry and that light's got to be replaced by tomorrow .
That they're going to come over and do that and it's going to be done nicely . They clean up all their work when they're done right , they actually turn the fuse box back on , that flip the breaker so it works when you plug something into it and they put the light switch in a place that makes sense so it's not this wall that's turned on that light .
Yeah , you don't turn it down , turn it on , turn it up right , it's not crooked .
The face plates aren't crooked , but I'm just saying so .
It's like all those other things get so much more important . And when you have that relationship , you don't even ask them what it costs . You go , just get in there , do it , and they know they can trust you and they like doing business with you better because they don't have to estimate everything .
Yeah .
And quote prices all the time , and then it's a symbiotic .
Yeah , and don't you think it's true , though , like when I look back ? You know , ok , we have 26 years , so that's some , you know history right . Like when you're starting , like my clientele , their expectations were much different than the clientele I have now .
And so when I say , like we've grown up with some of our clientele , like before , they just wanted me to use what they had . That was the resource .
Sure .
They didn't care if I go to market and like buy into some line and like now can sell them something that will last them 20 years . Like the goal was to use what they had and make it look different , make it look good right , they didn't have the budget right and now they're more successful , and so as you grow right .
So like as these younger people are growing in in these businesses , trying these businesses , there are these levels too .
Sure .
You know . So like I love seeing that , because that also has given me permission to take the kind of jobs we take , the level of jobs we take , work with the vendors , like I now feel comfortable saying this job isn't for us , but when you're starting you're hungry Like you're afraid to say that , right ? I mean , I'm still afraid to say it sometimes .
Oh yeah , sure .
I love saying yes , man , I know it's so great .
I sure don't like with people that start with no , you don't want to give up any revenue dollar ever .
No , dude , I can't .
It's so hard .
That , okay , it's so true . But , um , yeah , so like give us a sense . What's the mix of your projects for single family residential . Then you do some bigger stuff . I know you've worked for institutional type clients and , and , um , also a commercial . Yeah , what's the breakdown ?
Our commercial is pretty small , like our commercial tends to be . Like someone is starting a restaurant , you know that's not franchised and we we help them with the aesthetics of the dining space .
That's a big deal . It's fun .
Those fun those have been fun . Um , and a lot of more corporate type offices , you know , because it's a relationship . Again it goes back to like hey , you've done our house , you know us , we could do this project , um , so I love those . I love doing like people's offices and their suites , like I love that part um .
And then really our sweet spot are those full builds , so like if we can have one of those that are a three-year project , a five-year project , then they overlap .
So what are these ? Like $3 million houses , $5 million projects , like what kind of range are we talking ?
about yeah , yeah , we're talking about anywhere from like I mean typical so our small projects . We would say like maybe they are building like million dollar homes , you know , maybe they're doing a million dollar remodel , maybe two , um , and then our big houses , that last you know , over the course of time is like four to 10 . Okay , so like bigger projects .
That's a lot . In Arkansas it's a lot . This is not Southern California . Okay , so you're going beyond .
I wouldn't say we go way beyond . We have a house right now in Florida . That's a really neat project and , again , a lifer . We just finished a house up at Table Rock Lake . That was amazing , a legacy home .
Grew up in Missouri , everybody had a place on Table Rock .
Yes , it's so good . I love leaving Arkansas now I'm like , oh , this is a fun little spot and I found these great restaurants . I love going and exploring a new place and meeting new people .
So there's people that have $10 million homes ? Yeah , there are , yeah , wow meeting new people .
So there's people that have $10 million homes . Yeah , there are . Yeah , wow , believe me , when you get done with that thing , you're building over there in Cape Spring you'll have $10 million in the site work , I think , oh yeah , Eric's got this property that he's building in the compound . I love it when people say we're building this house .
And then they're like how do we build a compound ? I was like , you didn't build a house , you developed property .
Yeah , yeah , this is a development project , for sure , if you put on a pond , a stone wall , a water feature .
that's the level we're talking about .
Yeah , he's talking about having three houses plus a house plus a commercial building .
Well , pretty little tiny home thing for the daughters Then you can just break it down Say you know , I built an X amount dollar home and then I built , like you know , a $100,000 home and a $50,000 home . Yeah , that's how you can break it out .
So we have a few minutes left , Mark . Okay , just wanted to make sure that like you know like a question , like about you know on that relationship thing , so can you give , do you mind to give ? Like how you go about , like , is there a like ? I know you probably don't have it . You know , completely strategized and timetabled out .
But like how would you tell somebody or coach somebody to build a relationship with a client to where they become , become a lifer , like I mean ?
yeah is this like , so you have a lifer not questioning price all the time , exactly , yeah , so say mark gives you calls .
hey , becky , I heard I got a referral from somebody that said you're a great designer . I got this project going on . Yeah , you're like okay , let's . And then you're starting that relationship , that moment .
Yeah , what do you ?
do yeah . What's the first thing you do ? Good question .
So I'm thinking of these people that haven't been referrals , that knew other people well , you know . So like they're a fresh referral , like they're not coming from a lifer and they've been around with me and now I know them as well I drew some history . So , like the newbies , the cold the cold , cold , yeah , yeah .
So I'm gonna use the couple that we just did table rock for and because they're relatively new , they're like the last five years clients . So when they called again like from the audio visual guy , like okay so that's kind of a distant link
¶ Building Trust Through Personal Connections
. They bought a house that we had remodeled for Coach Bielema . So they bought the Bielema's house and they loved what we had done . I mean , when they walked in they were like who painted that brick wall blue ? Because , like we want to know that person .
And so .
I was like , okay , yeah , that's me . And so I remember she told me this recently and embarrassed me . But she said when I called you , I was so nervous because I was like , oh my gosh , I've never called a signer . I'm calling a signer and she , like knows all this stuff I don't know . And she's like , will you work with me ? And I said you know what ?
Let's , let's meet . I said I'd love to just sit down and get to know you , because you are going to want to want to work with me and I'm going to want to work with you , right ? And she said later she goes . I was so worried when I have the phone . What if she doesn't want to work with me ? What if she doesn't like me ?
I love it . That's a great way to go . Baby , you got this one . That's where you want them Create the mystique .
Maybe I'll work for you , but maybe yeah . So that process , there's not a formula , you know that's what's hard , but like that process but I think well , the formula is that is like spending that time , like like saying sure we're not having a meeting for me to show you our program right right this meeting is like tell me about your life .
Yes , like being engaged , that's it . I want to know where you're not trying to sell them anything . Who are your people ?
yes , you're asking them questions . That's what I was hoping it's sam .
Yeah , because like , I've had this like and there's a community aspect around here too , right that ?
you're like .
I mean it's and it might be a little slow , but people can't you can't fast track that stuff like you can't go in and sell . No , you know , even if they're wanting something from you like you , have to start understanding who that person is and remember it helped me , that sales made me sweat , you know .
so like , yeah , I don't , that's not my nature . I am selling all the time , but I'm coming at it a different way and I don't even know it's sales , but it is that and it took me like their first sign up was just the living room .
Okay , that's a good point . That was a $75,000 job .
Right when I say , hey , a living room this size is going to be 75,000 . And they said yes , and then , in the whole course of that , she keeps saying I'm never going to let you in my bedroom , it's a private space . I'm never going to let you in the bedroom . I was like absolutely , I get it Well .
As soon as we got five rooms done , she's like you have got to do it Well you demonstrated , you demonstrated , and now she's got the confidence to go ahead and so , yeah , that's a big part of it and then they're looking , literally .
they're looking for projects we can help them with , because they miss us .
I'm telling you , that's it . Like . I mean folks , like the general person , all of us , even in this room and everybody that's listening , we get burned . We hear bad stories . We have fear .
Yeah .
Fear is sitting there and it's keeping me . I got these walls all around me , yeah , and , and I'm not going to let you just bust them all down , yeah , but what you did with that living room , that is , you came in , you developed a trust . Yeah , like I like that , okay , and they're like , hey , what about this ?
And then they eventually let you in the bedroom . It's like the most .
Yeah , that's intimate .
That's intimate , yeah , but over time you broke down those walls .
Yeah , and what you said is so good , like it is the opposite of fear is love . And so , like , if you just like , love people where they are and you recognize that , I had a lady that said my husband's going to love you , but I'm scared to death that we're hiring you , and I was like he's great , he loves design , he's in .
I need to win her Like I need to win her trust . She needs to know that I care about value because that mattered to her . So like I've been over backwards for the things that matter to her . So it is about like listening , when are they , where are we together , you know ?
you know , if you , it's been proved that if you just ask people a lot of questions about themselves when you meet them , then you may talk very little , but when they leave you they will say , oh that Becky's wonderful , I really liked her . Yeah , because you ask a lot .
If you get together with somebody and all they do is talk about themselves and they never ask you anything about yourself , yeah , you think . Yeah , they're an asshole .
I mean I'm sorry . No , that's true , Because I feel like every time we do this podcast , I feel like Mark talks the entire time .
Come on , eric , I'm just kidding .
Poor Mark , I'm just kidding . I'm kidding . We always ask a question at the end who did you like more as a host here today ? Oh good , because we're trying to determine should we split off and do separate shows ?
Eric is more likable .
I know that no way , man , I accept that there's a great balance going on here .
You need a round table though .
Can I just suggest a round table ?
We've got other sets . I have my back to the camera .
He's like . You know , we need a round table . I need to bring it in .
We have multiple sets here . Okay , we've got the Johnny Carson set . We've got the what is it ? The Charlie Rose interview set here .
What's the Charlie Rose ? You're talking about the little triad . Yeah , the chairs , the chairs , yeah , oh yeah yeah , we've got a variety of sets here .
Yeah , I like it . This is podcast videos .
This is a real company . This is good guys .
Yeah , well , hey , it's really been fun talking .
we could talk all day , I'm sure .
I know we so good , so I'm so glad you came thank you .
Thank you for having me too , like I mean , that meant a lot . I love meeting new people yeah , that's fantastic we love meeting you .
How do people get a hold of you if they want ? Yeah , that's hard like hey maybe you will get a hold of me if you will decide to talk to me right , don't know , no , I he's like I might .
This is a whole other podcast like how have ? I been in business without social media because I have no social media . I'm so sorry , sorry , but I do have a website .
OK , hit us with that place .
It's wwwtablesettersinccom and you can just reach out there .
Awesome .
And maybe , maybe , becky , maybe she could help you . Maybe she'll talk to you ?
We don't know .
I'll always talk .
Well , we'll get to know each other first , we'll decide whether this is going to work or not , because we're really busy over here and we're not cheap . I'm just going to tell you right now .
Thank you , I'm going to start . Mark said we are not cheap .
Put that on a quote on the top of the website Before you call recognize . Mark Zweig said we're not cheap .
We don't want to be cheap . We don't want to be cheap . No , Becky , it's great and we're glad you're here in Northwest Arkansas and I know you've worked on so many amazing projects . Obviously you've really got yourself in the right network . Thank , you . To network . Thank you To get the quality of stuff that you're doing . Yeah , it's awesome .
So thanks so much , and until then next week . That is . This has been another episode of Big Talk About Small Business . If you'd like to be on the show or , better yet , if you want to give us some money to be a sponsor of the show , please reach out to us at wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom and we'd love to talk with you . We know that .
Let's think about it . Okay , we'll think about it . Okay , we'll think about talking with you .
We'll watch the sponsorships pour in now more you know what I'm saying .
All right , Well , thanks everybody . Thanks Eric , and thanks so much , Becky .
Thank you .
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