¶ Career and Mistakes of Harry Clark
Hey , welcome back everyone to another episode of Big Talk About Small Business . And I'm here with my co-host and friend , Eric Howerton One could say maybe a brother from another mother as well as a very special guest here today , Harry Clark , who is with us . And Harry is another person that I've developed a real kinship for .
He's much classier than I am , but I have a real kinship with him over both business and cars . So we've become friends over the last couple of years and Harry even sold Rolls Royce for me that I lost a small fortune on .
Oh really .
That's a good story . I don't blame him for that , though .
Oh , he wasn't the reason why you lost the self .
I was my own undoing on that one . He just did his best to help me get out of this .
Get out of a sandpit , harry ? How was that ? Was that fun for you to help your buddy Mark here ?
Oh well , you know it took a while , it was easy , it was good it was good .
What did you do ? Go out and buy a brand new Rolls Royce .
Oh no , I wish it was . I would have lost less money on it even , I think . But just no , it was a 99 Rolls Royce and it was British racing green . It was the only one that either Harry or myself had ever seen like that , and whenever I see green , it just does something to me . It does , yeah , I let go , I let go .
All your Green does something to a lot of people , a very certain thing .
Yeah . But I think that you're just more attuned or you're more attracted to the greenness Maybe , I don't know what it is , but anyway we won't get into that story . I think that's enough of that . One Really want to talk about Harry today . Harry has had a very interesting career .
He's had two companies on the Inc 500 list Awesome and he has written a book called Mistakes Millionaires Make . And I'm not a big fan of business books , as you know , but Harry's book is great . It has one story after another of , I guess , spectacular growth , implosion and rebirth , wouldn't you say , harry ?
Yes , yeah , I know exactly right yeah .
Well , tell us a little bit about yourself and what your background is in just some of your life story , if you would .
Sure , sure , yeah , I really grew up or I say I grew up in Huntington Beach , california , which is a great place to grow up . I was barefoot most of the time and had a great time . I was a wrestler all through high school and college and grad school . I didn't know that . Yeah , yeah , yeah , which is you know it's very disciplined and you work very hard .
But yeah , that was kind of exciting . My father was a at the time you wouldn't say a tech executive , but that's what he was in today's nomenclature . So I saw him working six days a week , every single week , and working long hours . So hard work was just something that was embedded into each of us .
So I went through college , grad school , worked for Deloitte , ernst and Young on the Consulting Sonnet , which was a phenomenal experience , because there we all basically the work ethic at the time was how you tried to bill as many hours as you could . So a hundred hour work week is very normal and we had a blast .
It's funny you say that , because that was really when all those consulting groups were getting started in those big aid firms . When I got out of my MBA program they were hiring everybody out of my class and at the time they paid about 18K . You know it was .
Oh yeah , the pay was strike-all .
That's with an MBA , you know , but you could do well and that was a great time to be in that and I'm sure you learned a lot from all the competition .
That's what's amazing , right ? If you , when you're compress your , you know , by working a hundred hours a week on multiple projects , you're compressing your learning experience . And it's phenomenal . I mean in three years I learned what most people would learn in probably six or seven years . So that's normal for that environment .
And then the manager that recruited me out of grad school recruited me into a municipal finance consulting firm you know where we helped municipal governments issue bonds , and after two and a half years they made me a partnership offer . We couldn't agree . So it was my brother and my father that said , well , why don't you just do it on your own ?
You're doing great . Yeah . Well , I did , and I was about 27 years old and my brother invested $25,000 and off we went and and I literally broke even a $26,000 and it was cash flow and very profitable . Great Cash positive and profitable .
So you , you were , you were just consulting . What would all where you were consulting ?
So initially it was a software solution to help administer municipal bonds . And then you know , levy assessments to collect , to pay the debt service on the bonds , and then you'll , you'll , you guys will love this right . As an entrepreneur and , by the way , I never wanted to be an entrepreneur- I just you know , I wanted to be a partner in a firm right .
That's sure .
I wanted to be a colleague .
Not Right .
Sure .
A lot of values , a lot of benefits . Matt .
You know , yeah , so um , that's your next book , Harry the Reluctant Entrepreneur . Yeah Right , I like it . And anyway
¶ A Journey of Entrepreneurial Success
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So my first client that I sold the software to , yeah , after about six months they said , hey , harry , the software is great , but can you just do it for us ? And it's like sure , right . So we retooled the business to be a service provider . Yeah , um and uh , within five years it was the largest in the US .
Wow , it was just phenomenal , I mean , and I and I , you know I , started with the desk and , uh , toshiba laptop and the phone . You know a desk phone ? Sure , yeah , this is 1989 . And , and you know , I , I looked at the phone and realized no one's calling me . So I better get on the phone and start , you know , making sales .
So , anyway , it was a phenomenal experience . And um , uh , anyway , I sold that in 1996 or seven , uh , to a Fortune 100 company , for , you know , a huge . You know we were set for life . I mean , it was you know what ?
what companies did you sell to ? Are you able to release ?
that , yeah . And then I was able to sell the EIA , which was a bond insurance company , again Fortune 100 company , a $14 billion company , wow , great , wow . And and so I was a senior officer with them for two years , which was twice as long as anybody thought I would .
Yeah , yeah .
Um , but then , then , uh , I started a school , uh , fully integrated design , build , school development company where we did everything from land acquisition , you know , municipal financing , uh , architecture , engineering , manufacturing and construction , um , and that we started with five of us , Uh and uh , in the first year , uh , we did seven and a half million .
The second , uh , the , and this is 1999 . Mm hmm , the second year we did 15 million , the third year 25 million , the fourth year 50 million , the fifth year 100 million , with 200 million at that . Wow , I mean , it was , it was , it was a rocket ship .
Harry , do you have anything that I can give you ? $100 and you start . I got a look . I actually got a computer later around .
It's a Toshiba too . Yeah , it's a Toshiba laptop .
Oh well , that was 89 , right 1980 .
Awesome man . Now that's a tremendous success story though . That's cool . It really is . It's fun when things are going like that though , isn't it ?
Oh , it's exciting , yeah , but but scary , sure . I mean , it was , like you know , riding a tiger , yeah that's cool , and who doesn't like riding tigers ?
I know I do . I love it , but you look like you're riding a tiger . I feel like I rode one this morning . But no , seriously though , harry , didn't 2001 impact you at all ? Because I remember our business in 01 , like it started to slow up a little bit over the anthrax scare . That was the first thing .
And then , when 9-11 hit , it was like the phone stopped breaking and I thought , holy cow , what is the world going to end ? It didn't really flatten out no one . I don't think you'll do that , or no , we had 100% growth . That's right . We were doing right then damn it .
But let me back up , because the key to that is that we , those five people I was one of the five- senators . And I was CEO and I funded the thing . We started by going to a conference room at a resort and we had a huge whiteboard . We listed all of the problems associated with school delivery .
So how do you deploy , how do you create new schools and deliver them ? We listed all of the problems and , one by one , we spent the weekend engineering the perfect solution to each and every problem . So we created everything again , even the financing for it . Sure , the name of it was turnkey .
That's what you were .
The complete solution ? Yeah , now , if we were just doing one aspect of it , I could see that it would be more vulnerable , but there was such a pent up demand for our solution that really nothing would have stopped it .
So what happened ? You got up to a hundred million .
Now there , that's the drum roll right Heck at $15 million .
¶ Lessons From a Business Failure
I recruited my first CFO because I had a finance background . I had a CFO . Well , we've recruited a great guy . He had worked for TaylorMainGolf and Solomon Steeves and that kind of stuff and he was Parisian , just French cuffs , everything , just a real gentleman , anyway .
So this is a $50 million and so I hired him in 2004 and I say , hey , let's raise $20 million , because at this point I'm personally guaranteeing everything on this business and I never , even though I had that accident- and . I had both this complex and comprehensive estate planning . I never intended to have this rocket ship and all the risk associated with it .
So we had five proposals for $20 million and the best thing of $20 million for a 20% equity stake in those times and it's like , yes , a hundred million dollar valuation after five years .
Yeah , it's impressive .
Yeah . So one of them said that they could fund it in 30 days . Everybody else was 90 days . And I'm thinking , look , money is a commodity . If somebody can fund it in 30 days and we're growing it 100% from 100 , by this time $100 million to $200 million and when you grow fast , it sucks . No matter how profitable you are , sure Yep .
So I'm thinking let's get the cash faster . So we select the company that offered us bait $30 million and commence due diligence . So we start the due diligence , everything's great . The due diligence was 30 days Friday before funding the $20 million .
On Monday , the manager for the private equity firm goes up to my CFO and says hey , philippe , we're closing on Monday . You have a million and a half in your bank account . Why don't you pay down your payables ? And then on Monday , we'll fund . And this way we get ahead of it .
Philippe does that , and then on Monday I get a phone call from the owner of the private equity firm , who was notorious which isn't a good word notorious billionaire . It made his money doing corporate rates . On Monday he calls me and he says Harry , we love your company , everything checked out fine .
But over the weekend we got a cash report and you don't have any cash , which means you need us or we need you . So instead of 20% equity , we want 80% equity . Oh Lord , wow , I draw a draw . I told him hey , no , thank you . We hung up , called the investment banker and we were in a world of hurt and ultimately , through a series of mistakes .
In hindsight we ended up winding the company down and with that all my personal guarantees . I lost $100 million personal and that was in 2005 .
Wow , that's brutal buddy yeah .
That's a bad day .
Oh man , I'm telling you , Geez . So this was a deliberate ploy , obviously , for this guy to hold you over a barrel , huh .
He had done it before and you know it . Yes , yeah , exactly . It took about two years of this intense litigation when the dust kind of settled a little bit and I got pissed off . It was like , how did that happen ? Sure , because for 20 years I had gone to the top entrepreneurship programs in the world , all around the world .
Sure , mit , london Business School , you know , center for Creative Leadership , blah , blah , anyway , you name it . I went to it . How did I step on that landmine ? It was really you know a landmine , because I mean , how would you know that that's what he was doing , unless you heard somebody talk about it or write a book or whatever ?
Well , you know my theory is and you know I never had that level of bad dealing that I had to deal with . But I will say , just getting into the construction and development business coming out of the AE side , I was really unequipped for the ethics of the industry compared to what I came out of .
And I think maybe you know , if you're so trusting and you've dealt with generally honorable people and then suddenly you confront somebody who's not it's it weren't unequipped for it .
You know , mark , you are so right because I came from municipal finance . Yeah , it's a straight up business , very , very small , small industry . Sure , well , you can't screw anybody , right ? You know , yeah , I mean , if you do , you're out of business . Sure , right , I mean , there are people that were aggressive , but aggressive isn't , you know , screwing yourself ?
Sure , or you know , yeah , unethical right , right , and I think that there's . I mean , I have a story that I got left at the altar At 4 am on the day of signing . We had already signed on our side , uh-huh , 4 am , holy cow , and we'd already borrowed money in good faith against you know . We got pulled into that whole arena .
Mm-hmm , hey , here's an advance . All good , we're doing this , no problem , all through due diligence . 4 am Partner . I wake up to an email the next morning that the investor wrote it at 4 am , saying I just don't feel good , wow , and we're just like what . And so we walk in .
We celebrated the night before because we were about to do this Sure Walk in to a whole different , just a whole different energy , and then we had like a quarter of a million . I mean , it wasn't anything like that , but it was like a quarter of a million of debt .
Now that we're riding that we got to pay back to somebody that just left us , like literally left , but anyway . But I think , like I can share , like your story reminds me of that gut punch man . Yeah To your point .
Like I think that we're all really talking here about , like we're earnest entrepreneurs that are trying to make a living and make a difference and do the right thing and find a fill out gap , and then you run across people that are in that same realm , like it's true Business , the business is business statement . Yeah , is real , yeah .
Well , to some people , all business is personal too , but anyway , yeah , you know , I had a similar story . We and our company sold in 2001 and we were all the way down to the details on the purchase and sale agreement . We were selling 80% of it to a nonprofit for 12.5 million and when 9-11 hit , they fired the development guy and we're just gone .
I'd already ordered a nice new Mustang GT convertible for my 16 year old soon to be 16 year old , you know and it just like all then that's just going and everybody had gotten into that frame of mind that this is what we're doing , yeah . And the next thing and all that , and then that's the biggest damage , is the frame of mind of the team .
Really hard to get that momentum back , yeah , which was fantastic up to that point .
Right , you know , and just like your story here , like you straight up , you guys were like from your story , you're turning and building and things are just optimistic and you're growing and you need capital to continue the great ride that you're on . And then all of a sudden , yep .
Oh , it was so . It was absolutely hard for me , had you , sorry , had you recovered for that .
Yeah , that's what I'll be Sorry .
Sorry , that's all right , no it's great questions , yeah . So it well , it depends on what you mean by recovered , but I can tell you like emotionally .
Yeah , yeah , yeah .
It was literally for seven years . I did on average about 10 hours of yoga a week . Wow , yeah , and you know , just to kind of keep centered and my head on straight .
Yeah .
Hmm , yeah , really , you know I . And I mean , can you imagine the humbling experience ? Yeah , and through that , Yup . And finding out who your friends are and who they're like yeah , yeah , yeah . The but what ? There's one thing in it and you know , I'm not sure if how applicable it this is to your listeners , but it's .
It's something that I had learned , or maybe we should save this for when we talk about the book , but um well , well , do you mind if I ?
jump into it At least yeah , yeah , okay .
So , um , the the book was a result of . You know , it took me about 12 years of litigation to wind that business down , so it was like a ball and chain .
Sure .
And I tapped on my ankle and and what ? What just made no sense to me was what we were taught in business school is look the worst cases . The beautiful thing about the U ? S and the UK and and most of the Western world is the worst case . You file bankruptcy and bam , you see a fresh start .
Yeah , right , that way .
That's what we were taught . Nothing else , right ? You know , full stop period right , fresh start right . And yeah , and that's true for for most people . The problem is that if you , if you have an estate that's that is worth a lot of money , then the lawyers it becomes a feeding frenzy for the lawyers .
Yeah , so a target rich environment ? Oh is it ? Yeah , sure .
They'll literally look at how much money you have and determine how many years they can litigate . It's phenomenal . Nobody had ever known that before . So you know , I have my , my book here , right , and it was really my wife .
My wife encouraged me to write a book after this whole 12 year period and I said , well , I mean , if I write about my experience , people would read it and say , well , he was an idiot . Right , I would never do that . Yeah , because that's how you know to be an entrepreneur , we have to have a lot of ego , right , we have to have Of course . Yeah .
I mean not , not , not , you are no , no man . I'm very humbled Very humbled .
Man , I do love this so funny , he is .
No , it's true he is . He really is . But now I hear what you're saying . You at least have to have enough ego to think I can overcome a lot of the guys there's not , because otherwise the first person gets those .
why aren't you kidding me , yeah ?
Right , yeah , yeah , okay , you off . I'm going to show him . That was exactly what you said , but I had somebody tell me no earlier . All it is maybe like that's exactly what I want to do . Then I will show them . Nothing can stop me , you know .
So so let me ask you one thing I know in your book , you , you , you obviously found other people and their stories and told them of of all that they went through and and you did it in such an easy to read way .
I was going to say that when I started out earlier , like I don't really like business books , but I really do like Harry's book , just the way he wrote it . It's yeah , he's a great writer . It's not got any bullshit in there , there's no acronyms and buzzwords and they're not pivoting and storytelling and all the other crap that people say today .
He didn't herself proclaim he was a visionary , like these people do on LinkedIn . I love these , these , these . I don't understand what the prescriptions ?
What's the problem with the acronyms to you , Mark , or the cliches I , I , just I don't see the big problem with that .
It just bugs me . I mean I don't know what else to say , but anyway , he doesn't do any of that . It's super readable . But , harry , I did . You mentioned your wife and I , and I never talked with you about this . Did you keep the same relationship during this whole endeavor ?
Yeah , Great question .
Yeah , so we because it puts a strain on things .
Yeah , yeah , no , we , we had been my wife with , with , with turnkey , right , yeah , oh well , we were married for 20 years , had three kids together , had what would seem like a charmed life , Sure , and one after one year of being in that purgatory
¶ Navigating Entrepreneurship and Family Dynamics
. Yeah , with all the litigation , she left , she , when , when she , when the attorney said she , she asked because at the beginning of it the attorney says , oh , in a year this will all be over , which you know . I think he was selling the fact that he's charged us $800 and , yeah , $100,000 a month . Wow , okay , yeah .
And and so after a year she said well , when is this going to be over ? She said I have no idea . And literally I felt her spirit , just yeah , I mean scared the shit out of her .
Scared the shit out of her , didn't it ? Just absolutely scared the hell out of her . On that .
Yes , yeah , you know , and and it's totally understandable , sure , you know she , she wanted to know . Yeah , and she said we're going to live in a mobile home in Barstow or we're going to keep our one country estate . There was no answer . Yeah , we're in purgatory . Yeah .
Maybe a split level in Vysalia ? I don't know if you go down to . The mobile home might be a little too much , but no . But so yeah , it's common that these things , I think , put a huge strain on your relationships and not . You know , eric and I both had our spouses on the show in an earlier episode and we're both on .
Well , he's on number two , I'm on number three , but it's they're not all able to deal with this entrepreneurial stuff .
Yes , you know , as a matter of fact , for when I literally my keynote , I talk about how , look , I'm not an entrepreneur , right , we , we are equipped generally to handle the stress , right , sure , that doesn't mean our family , exactly , yeah .
And so , you know , I mean I've really , you know , I've really , you know , I , you know , beat her up , you know , by exposing her to the stress . I'm sure she knows more .
Right .
She , you know she'll feel better , Right ? I mean , I want to know more .
I feel better if I know Sure exactly yes , but in your case probably it was too much and man , you can't , you can't , you don't want navigating that .
Yeah , Like as like , as entrepreneur , like those things , these things are hitting you . You're going these attorneys , you're trying to figure all this stuff out , You're trying to keep your wife involved in this because you think that that's I mean , but you cannot Thing to do .
Yeah , I mean there , it's impossible for any human brain or emotional intelligence to consider so many dynamics from people around you and how that's going to , how this is affecting them . I mean .
You know ? What might be an appropriate analogy is you know , you know how , when you're leading a business and you're having a big challenge , you walk into the business and you have to project like , yeah shit's good , it's all good . You know , everything's great right .
Great Dave . I've been doing yoga for two and a half hours trying to get my head right to walk in . But today's a great day . Yes , yes .
No you're right and you know , probably the approach should have been more like that . Yeah , yeah . Well , we're going through a hard time , but you know what this ? It's going to be awesome on the other side .
You know . But honestly , you know , harry , like I can relate completely , I can relate with everything you're saying . I mean it's just , it's awesome I love in this dialogue . But like the reality is , is , even as an entrepreneur and being as strong and as visionary as you are to get through these things or the you know , the level of risk doesn't affect you .
The same way , like your family support is important to you at that time that you have somewhere to fall on , like emotionally , or just like there's just somebody that gives a shit Cause when you're dealing with that stuff , nobody else . Like your vision , the reality of your world is like everybody's a dog .
After everything you got , and you got those attorneys , like even your attorney who's representing you , is actually just , I mean , they're just freaking . Freaking it in man .
Did you ? Let me ask you this were your mom and dad still alive at that point ? Your mom's still alive now , isn't she ?
No , no she passed away ?
Yes , but at the time they were both . Okay . Were they supporting you emotionally ? Yeah , yeah , you at least had that , and that's important , yeah , so how ? So ? We went through this 12 years of being stuck in sort of a limbo state , I guess , trying to figure out where the dust was all gonna settle .
And your wife , you know you , you've changed your relationship there , so so then what happened ?
So I , you know , through this , this period , I did lots of consulting work and you know life , you know life was , you know was pretty , it was tolerable , Mm-hmm . After , afterward , I , my , my now wife , who I'd been with , we'd been together for 12 years , yup and you know , and she was her idea to write the book .
So I I kind of you know dedicated myself . I told myself for three years I'm gonna give back and I'm gonna write this book . And I interviewed 30 entrepreneurs that made and lost 10 to 200 million recorded , recorded and transcribed . The interviews correlated the risk factors in the stories to help the book .
So that's , you know , the or the , the stories are the book right and describe the risk factors . So I was then basically delivering keynote speeches all around the world 30 countries , 80 cities , which may not sound like a lot , but 30 countries , that's a lot , man To . You know , fly to , to to over , you know , an hour and a half keynote .
Yeah , it's a grind yeah .
Yeah , but it was you know . I mean , you can imagine them . You know what I learned in doing all of that and meeting all those CEOs and business owners . I mean it was really a blessing to me , sure , and then it was . It was my mother who said , you know , harry , because I was trying to figure out , okay , what am I gonna do ? Right ?
And initially it was my mother that said , you know , warren Buffett says if you do what you love for a living , you never work a day in your life . So you , you ought to have a classic car dealership .
Yeah .
It was like no , I could never . I could never . Right , I was a major collector , Sure , my whole life . I mean , when I was 15 , I had my first show car .
Your dad was into it too , wasn't he ?
Yeah , yeah , totally different cars , but he was still a good driver . Sure , yeah , and and literally . When she said that , I was like no way , because I never sold my own cars , I always used a auction company or a program .
And , and you know , I thought about it overnight and it was like you know what , Wow , If I , if I flip the switch as an reflector to being a business person , I could probably do it . And my God , it's been phenomenal .
And so I did it kind of on the side usually , and then it then my , my wife , I don't know five years ago , six years ago , and said , you know , Harry , because the keynotes were , you know , I had done my few years , Sure .
Done the second .
Yeah , um , yeah , right . And then , and then , about five , six years ago , she said well , why don't you just buy a building and , and you know , have a real deal dealership and and lean in Because you know , Mark , I was . I was contemplating okay , should I do ? Should I go one more round , you know , with a ?
You know scaling a business or CEO , you know hired CEO , and she said no , just you know , buy a building and and and have a classic car dealership . And why ? Why , god , I'm the luckiest guy in the world . I mean , I , I'm right now , I'm surrounded by these beautiful classic cars and I have a great team .
I , we show cars all over the world and it's all a business expense .
Yeah , yeah , it's awesome , you get to drive cool stuff . Yeah , get them . Still meet cool people .
Right , and is that what you do ? You started doing that full time . I mean I guess classic , yeah , and like when ? What date did you kind of quit doing your key notes and stuff ?
Oh , I still so , I still , luckily , you know , again , I'm very fortunate . I have a great team here . Okay , so I have a whole , a whole team here , so I can , you know , I can go and , and you know I was in Saudi Arabia , kuwait and Jordan in June and then Frisco , texas , yeah , I did a first wide group .
Yeah , I care , I really talk . Yeah , At the latest , Innovate , Well , health , I see . But , um , yeah , Harry , Harry still does that .
¶ Passion for Classic Car Business
But I mean . So back on your , your classic car business , though . I mean , you've got sort of a unique way you do it . I know you own some of the vehicles yourself , but you do a lot on consignment and you do a fantastic job with your videos .
The videos and the photography and and the sort of you know here's every single thing we can find wrong with this vehicle really reduces , I think , a lot of the risk for the buyer to buy from you Exactly .
So we're selling these cars all over the world , yeah , literally all over the world . Yep , people are sending us cars from all over North America and I'm getting two cars from Malaysia , wow , yeah . They are being sent to me , which makes no sense , you know , except for the fact that that you know through .
You have a distribution . You have a distribution and the description Right .
So , different than what anybody else does . That Right , we've created our community .
Yes .
Worldwide .
Yes .
It's fun . But but , mark , the funny thing is , you know , we do the videos and photos ourselves . Right , I know Right .
And the quality is unbelievable yeah .
I mean , we have Gerald for you , you know , we , we , you know do our own drone videos and and we , just so you know it , what I love about this and and I would encourage anyone to really find out what they're really , what I mean , what gets them excited you know , in the morning , you know as a , as a passion , Yep , and you know for , for me , you know
, I , I love it because I , I have this big art side of me , Sure Well , I get it . The , the photos and videos . Kind of check that . I love doing the research on every single car . You do a lot .
I've learned you do a lot of the the history and you get into , like , who owned it originally and where it came from . It's always very interesting . I read all those that you print . Telling the story , yeah . Telling the story , yes .
Yeah , and God it's so much so that , but that you know that nerdy act , that that you can . That side of me it it kind of ticks that box and and uh , luckily we have just incredible people , you know , and I , we think of it as we're in the happiness .
Yep , I like that .
Whether you're a seller or a buyer , right , nobody needs this stuff . No , all right , it's all a toy , it's their happy place , right ? So , whether they're selling or buying , we're making them happy .
Right , that's great . Well , I think the other thing is too like . I mean , you don't come across as a car salesman , Okay so there's like , like I do , you don't .
I mean , do I want ? I like it , you'll have . Though I like being the car salesman , I go ahead .
But no , I mean , I think you know , and you're also extremely knowledgeable about these things , you know , you're one of the few people I know really knows a lot about it , and so , but yeah , you've created your own little distribution channel here through providing better photos , better videos , better backstories , better conditional information and being trustworthy , and
you can see why the whole thing works . Yeah , yeah , yeah .
And no , it's a blast . Yeah , I'm jealous entirely .
So now you live out in Scottsdale . Now Is that right ?
Yep , there's a little area called Paradise Valley , which is a sandwich between Phoenix and Scottsdale . Yeah , and yeah , we , we . We had the the fun process of 19 months ago moving into our guesthouse , tearing down our house and , and hopefully before Christmas , we moved back in . Well , it's never fun .
Well , it's never fun . Erica's building a , a , a , a castle on a hill . Oh , I like that . It's like a compound I think he's going to have Well , it might be more like a compound Houses for each of his kids there . It's , it's crazy , it's it's . I bought a little , just a little hill , by a , by a hill .
By a crack , yeah , by a crack it's , it's going to be good . I actually just looked at the plans this morning .
Are you going to have a cement pond over there ? How might ? Yeah , I thought I said I can final . We're really coming up here in Arkansas , here . You wouldn't believe it . I mean , we've got a dentist in town now .
It's every once in a while , let's let Harry think that , because the stud that Harry is will come in and take over everything that you are trying to do . Oh yeah , we don't even get outsted immediately . Very new , how awesome it was here . Hey , this is a great . I mean , I love this . I just love this episode .
Actually , I like Harry more than I like you now more . It literally took 45 minutes for me to understand that I would rather be hanging out there than you . How does that make you feel ?
Thanks for the introduction . It will elevate you . I'll say that he's far classier than I am . No way man he is .
But no , I mean , but honestly , like it's , you know the conversation around those dark moments here , like I mean , those are , we don't have enough of that in our world . So I applaud you and thank you for your , for writing your book , for sticking that vision , for going deep within yourself to pull that out and exposing yourself .
Yeah , as you made a really good point earlier about the ego , the pride . Well , my experience has been like there were moments when I had and there was no one you could talk to . I couldn't even talk to Mark .
You should have been talking to me , man , I know man , but you know , at that moment though I mean now , now it's easy for me to think Like , yeah , you're super successful .
We're talking . We're talking .
Hey , you're talking now , but there was a time period yeah , there was a . You know there's both periods when , like you can't , yeah , what can you turn to ? It's here in nobody to talk to , there's no one , and I don't care what anybody says . I mean , you've had it .
I don't know that you have to be a strong person , you have to be a faithful person or a .
So your vision is so just absolutely keen to make it through Some of those things because , like you and your mind , somewhere deep down within inside yourself , maybe it's when you're doing the downward dog you are recognizing that , hey , I'm going to make it through this , and shit happens , and you know what the world like I'm overcoming , because there's things that
I still want to go do . That's at least where I was at .
¶ Challenges of Being an Entrepreneur
Well , the fortunate thing is that , genetically , entrepreneurs are wired to be optimist . Yes . You're wired as optimist . Yes , yes , as such . We're more fun at parties , we're healthier , we live longer .
That's good news .
You know , and we can make it through the dark periods right , you know , the downside is being an optimist . Often it creates these vulnerability .
Oh yeah , for sure .
Right , you know , if we were pessimists like if I were a pessimist , I would have been . Well , what ? Why are they doing that ? Why would they want to be the 1.5 million ? It's good .
It's going to put me at a risk level and , as it may , check off , yeah , don't do right , yeah .
Yeah .
It's everything's too risky . But you were like I mean shit . If you called somebody up , here's the reality . If any one of us calls him up said hey man , go ahead and wire that one and a half million over because it's going to make the books look good . My intention is is that is supposed to be helping you ? Yeah , like there is zero is zero inkling .
And why would you think it was a ploy ? I never have a thought in my brain to do that to anybody on this entire planet , because it's like against all the shit that's inside my being . But it's just not the way it works for everyone .
No , right , there are .
That's right .
There are some people who don't mind hurting other people . That's not any of our styles , no , but they do exist out there .
Not only do they not mind if they intentionally do that , like it's crazy , like it , you know , I mean here you said something earlier too . I mean I was there , my periods . There was moments where I was so absolutely dumbfounded , shocked , that I didn't even know that humanity could do some of the things that were going on .
And it feels like that you in some of your comments you were kind of shocked a little bit too . Like what ? Because you kept saying , like what the hell is going on here ?
Yeah , yeah , you know in I mean , eric , you probably went through this too , maybe , but I , you know , I know for myself it was like , well , it can't get any worse until the next day .
Oh well , he didn't touch it . He actually didn't .
I mean , he was like what yeah , like hell yeah . Because you know , especially in my case , right everything I touched , you know , turned to gold . Right yeah sure .
Until it did , until everything he touched turned to shit . I ain't a boy , I get it .
I get it , you know . I think again , though , it comes back to one of the recurring themes that we've talked about a lot , Eric , on this show , and that is that entrepreneurship is inaccurately portrayed by pop culture or in the pop culture of you know . I got to come up with a new idea . That's never been done before .
Well , you were working in basically mature industries for all practical purposes , right , Definitely . So that blows that out of the water . And then , you know , immediately I got to go raise outside capital . Well , we all know that the longer you wait to do that , the better off you are .
Right , Because you don't want to give it away too early , and that there's , you know . And then bad things can happen . I mean , it's like it's always portrayed as come up with idea , you know , raise all this , Somebody comes along and pays you a whole bunch of money for it and then you're done . You know , it's just not like that .
Well , I have to share this . My wife did an executive program at Harvard you know kind of week long Harvard entrepreneurship programs and one of the professors there was saying , you know , he totally , totally doesn't believe in luck and he talked about how he engineered his business and had a successful sale .
That was kind of his data point and it's like holy smokes man . If you read through my art it's like wow , there's no doubt that luck is it's part of it . Luck is so much . I should have so much to do this Success or failure .
It really does man .
You know to that point . You know in particular , Mark , what you were just saying a second ago the fear that I have in this encouragement of being an entrepreneur , this fad , like it needs to . It literally needs to stop .
It's like the same fad or the same thing is like hey , you know , be a rock star , be a party person , you know , I mean , it's super cool , you know . And then there's good people that end up getting friggin hooked up on dope and they're dead . And they're dead , they're 27 . Same shit can happen in entrepreneurship .
If you are ready for that , or you don't even have to be ready , if you aren't able to go through those and kind of to your point here about the eternal optimist , if you are in that mind frame and there's a reason why you're trying to be an entrepreneur anyway , or that you don't even need to know that you are one , you just have something you want to go
do Like . You can't like to set people up to be in those positions of what you were in or what I was in or something that Mark was in . Not everybody can make it through that .
Yeah , it takes resilience that's the buzzword now Resilience .
Okay , it does , but I mean that's like .
I mean like I think that this part of what we're trying to do here is we're trying to give people that and show that it's possible to survive these things Right it there's that side and there's also , like you like , don't fall in the trap of just being like .
being an entrepreneur is like becoming a freaking college professor or , or you know , an engineer . It's not the same .
It's not the same , it's going to take a lot of work . It takes a lot of total dedication . I mean , you know all the things that we all know . It's not a separation of of work and personal life . It's an integration . Integration , don't you think ?
And totally .
It's so , you know , let's talk work life balance . The implication is works horrible and should be avoided . You know , in that , in that whole equation , isn't it ? Work , life integration ? Yeah , totally great , yeah .
And so you know , it is a lot of work , but it's also not a lot of work because , at the same time , it's definitely like yeah right , like like what you're doing now , I mean that's not working either .
I mean you're living your life Right . Absolutely you bet and even if it's not something like , but even your previous businesses that you're doing , you were still living because you had some . He had a vision . You're taking , you're on this ride , you're trying to solve a problem . You you're in the middle of that . Yeah , absolutely , make an impact .
Yep Totally .
Yeah Well , we're running out of time here , but I'd like to hear what best piece of advice do you have for entrepreneurs and business owners today , Harry ?
So , given you know my subject matter expertise , the number one risk factor for business owners are the personal guarantees . Yeah , and if you have a line of credit or you know leases or credit cards or whatever , my recommendation is , for example , with a line of credit , meet with your banker .
find out what it would take for you to get an aid or carve out personal assets like your house , your car , etc . From the personal guarantee . So because if you don't ask , it'll never happen and you'll always have them If you ask , I know for sure and you'll .
You know , you can find out by reading the book , but you can have the business without any personal guarantees . Yeah , it's really a mindset and I you know right .
I don't . I mean , I got completely out of personal guarantees after being in business long enough and having a strong enough balance sheet in financial performance . Now , on the real estate side , I can't say that , no matter what I do , they always wanted a personal guarantee . I don't think I could get the loans on the real estate without it .
Yeah , have you been able to ?
All the time . No , I'm just kidding , I have it . But I mean yeah , but I mean that gets surprising to me because you have actually a real property that can be right .
Like they still demand it it's because it's an old business , right ?
I mean , it's just tradition .
Well , and they're so regulated . The government wants to see that to maintain their insurance from the FDIC and all . But you're right , I mean you're never going to get there unless you ask . I think that's very good advice .
You need a really good relationship with your banker and you got to keep probing to get them to commit to what it's going to take to let you out of that , because bad things can happen .
Yeah , For example , for my showroom here , I the seller , it's a seller finance . So you have like an eight-year note and no personal guarantee .
Yeah , that's good .
So anyway , the point is , yeah , if just have it be something that is a focus , because that's the number one risk factor .
You're right . That's how you relate to crash and burn and lose it all , All right dude , this is fantastic here .
It's awesome meeting you . Definitely going to be . I'm going to so . Your book obviously available on many bookstores online as well , and then is available in audible form or audio format as well , yes , audible , but no , the electronic version .
And then hard copy Okay , perfect , I'm going to go buy that puppy today and listen to it , man , I mean it's an important book , I mean for entrepreneurs .
it's an important book because nobody else has ever delved into this .
Yeah , that's awesome .
Harry was so nice . The first time I talked to him we were talking about cars . He said , told his assistant to send me the book and I'm like what book ? He sent it , and then I found out he was a lot more than a car guy . Yeah , you know so anyway . Well , harry , thank you so much .
What ? Yes , eric , pleasure meeting you .
Yeah , thank you sir .
Great seeing you again .
Fantastic . We appreciate having you on the show and this has been another episode of Big Talk About Small Business , and check out our website , yeah , big Talk About Small Business dot com for other episodes of the show , and we also want to hear your comments and suggestions and questions and criticisms .
Yeah , and we want you to subscribe too , so you know when the new shows come out . Right , and it's also important for this show , like I mean hey , man , look , we're doing a business here , right , mike ? Right , I mean , we want to make sure I think I called you Mike , it's all right .
You were thinking about my microphone . I had something to do with that .
But we do . I mean , we're building a business here . If we get subscribers , you know we get downloads , views , likes , thumbs up , all that kind of crap . It helps . It helps us get sponsors , and we can keep doing this Exactly Otherwise at some point we'll be like why aren't we doing this Exactly ? There's a lot of stuff .
Right , we got to share it Like we're working . I know we got over out here .
It's got to be so freaking . Subscribe , yeah , so we can get run drive more ad revenue , exactly , I mean , it's simple .
Absolutely . And if you want a really cool car , by the way , or sometimes , occasional motorcycles , classic promenadecom has some really cool stuff . It's constantly changing . That's awesome . There's always something out there I want .
Yeah , that's super cool . I'm going to go check out that content too , because , Harry , what you don't know about me is I'm a big content fanatic . Uh , I mean , I built my career on all that stuff , so we maybe sometime we'll connect on that and go deep about all this stuff after I do an audit of your content .
No , I'm not going to do that , I'm just kidding , but I mean . But the final thing is is on the questions for the viewers , please do soon as questions . I think that what would be cool is send us some questions about this episode and maybe we get with Harry . Have them back on . Let's answer .
Some of these things like that are relative , especially in the book . Right , If , if I , if , if somebody went and read the book , they threw some questions over to us , we can make that . We can come back and answer questions .
We can do that . Yeah , if Harry's willing to do it .
Yeah , are you willing to do something like that , harry ?
All right , thanks , harry . Right , thank you Everybody . That was recorded , right ? Yes , I think that good .
It was Not that I'm trying to entrap you , harry , as as as an attorney would .
All right . Well , thanks everybody , and we'll see you next time . Thank you .