Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. The Trump administration has a goal of arresting and detaining three thousand immigrants a day, and that has led to a crackdown by Immigration and Customs enforcement nationwide. ICE has been conducting raids in cities across the United States, including Los Angeles, but in recent days those raids intensified.
This was different.
Alicia Caldwell covers Immigration for Bloomberg from LA.
This was an armored truck that rolled down the streets through downtown Los Angeles with officers hanging on to the side, several on each side, with riot shields, helmets, cars in front and behind, guys on foot. This was much more expansive in a really busy area in a really busy time.
Alicia says ICE targeted immigrant neighborhoods, restaurants, and home depot parking lots, and that sparked protests. The situation escalated over the weekend as President Trump authorized the deployment of two thousand National Guard troops, hundreds of whom have arrived in Los Angeles already. It's something that hasn't happened since the nineteen sixties. A US president sending National Guard troops to
a state where the governor hasn't requested them. California Governor Gavin Newsom says he's suing the Trump administration to stop it.
Things have changed, and what we're looking for watching to see is does that violence increase? Are there increasing clashes between National Guard troops and protesters and or police.
I'm David Gerra, and this is the big take from Bloomberg News on today's episode. Anger over detentions in Los Angeles is triggering a bigger clash between California and the federal government. How that fight could play out in other cities and in the courts. What made what happened in Los Angeles different from what we've seen in other cities across the United States.
It was bigger than we'd seen before. We hadn't really seen the home depot arrests. We've seen sweeps at some businesses, some employment raids, if you will, and increasingly we've been seeing heavily armed ice agents. And I think what you saw was members of the community said, we're angry. You have rich pockets of migrant communities all over the region, and everybody is touched by all these things that are happening.
Everybody sort of knows somebody who's maybe their status is if maybe they don't have status, maybe they're a TPS holder temporary protected status.
So it's really broad.
Has President Trump been engaged with this from the beginning was the appoint which she began to comment on it, engage with it more?
It seemed rather abrupt.
The governor was in an interview last night and cid he had spoken to the President in the last couple of days and according to Governor Newsom, this was not a topic of conversation per se. And then on Saturday, the President called in the National Guard. He didn't consult with the City of California, which has become a contentious issue. He's authorized two thousand troops to come into La California State National Guard, but federalized and so under the command
and control of the Department of Defense. Right now, there's just a few hundred from a unit that's actually deployed to Afghanistan in the past and most recently was deployed for fire response to the La fires that started in January.
Can you draw contrast for us between what these protests were like before the National Guard was called in and after, and as you said, it's early hours yet, we don't have two thousand guardsmen and women in Los Angeles yet. But did things change markedly when those troops got to Los Angeles.
They definitely appeared to change from my vantage point, you know, we saw images of one protester shouting expletives and such with his dog in his hand, so it appeared very spontaneous and very very localized. Same in downtown Los Angeles. This was a response from people who were around the area who were witnessing this and somewhat rapidly, and it's hard to judge the response from Border Patrol and ICE at the home depot in Paramount on Saturday, but tear
gas and flash band grenades were used. We'd seen that before once in San Diego. It was repeated again on Friday in downtown as they're trying to disperse crowds and move vehicles out and in some cases move vehicles with
arrestees in them. But things definitely got bigger and it seemed to get much more aggressive starting Sunday, And according to the police chief, some of the most violent, most aggressive agitators are not necessarily part of or sort of part of the organized anti ICE protests or anti deportation protests, but sort of maybe taking advantage, sort of anarchist in his view.
I know you've been covering immigration for a long time, and you certainly covered it during the first Trump term, and there was this debate then about bringing the National Guard then to quell protests, and there was, as I understand it, a robust debate within the administration about that.
Well, last time know, the largest civil unrest under the Trump administration one point zero was during the George Floyd protests in the spring and summer of twenty twenty and state national guards were used. The state of California rolled out the National Guard on Hollywood Boulevard. There were trucks
lining the street. It looked like a militarized zone until you look a little bit closer, and those guys were sort of just standing by just in case, and they were under the command and control of the state.
And the same was.
The case across the country at significant protests in Minneapolis, in Kenosha, in Portland obviously that was one of the largest mass gatherings in Seattle and so on. This is different in the sense that the National Guard was called in almost immediately and not by the state. I started covering immigration in two thousand and five. And what is unusual and what is rapidly expanding, of course, is the nature of this event and the spiraling violence that's accompanying it.
What you're saying is in the past, the National Guard has come in if a governor has called Ford and requested it. That's not the case this time.
Correct, right.
So, the last time, as I understand it, that the National Guard was federalized by the president was during the Lyndon Johnson administration, and he sent in the National.
Guard to call protests over civil rights.
Demands, and those National Guard troops were there to protect the protesters.
This is dramatically different.
This is you understandably, the federal government has an interest in protecting federal facilities. I don't think there's any debate about that. The real question here is was this necessary when it happened, or at all from a national perspective. The governor has said, we didn't ask. The mayor has said we definitely didn't ask. The police chief has said we would not be there yet. Things are definitely out
of control. He's acknowledged that yesterday, Chief Jim McDonnell, but he was very careful to thread this line of their first call would be to the local sheriff's office in the LA County. Sheriff's office would then coordinate with all its accompanying partner agencies, and then perhaps you get to the National Guard, but certainly not quite in this fashion.
After the break, what happens next in Los Angeles and in court as state and local officials push back on the federal government's crackdown, and what this moment signals to mayors and governors elsewhere. The protests in Los Angeles over immigration enforcement have escalated a bigger political fight between California Governor Gavin Newsom and President Trump. Trump has said he'd support the arrest of Newsom if he interferes with immigration enforcement.
Something the president's borders are, Tom Homan says is on the table. Trump also suggested cutting off federal aid to the state, which led Newsom to point out California sends more funding to the federal government than it receives. So I asked Blomberg's Alicia called, well, how much leverage the president actually has over California.
I think that's unclear.
Obviously, he made decisions and deployed troops so he's got some leverage in that sense, but the state has pledged to litigate this. There was a formal request to the Department of Defense to withdraw these troops and return them to the command and control of the governor's office.
We've not heard a response to that.
There's been some back and forth on social media platforms with various leaders and sort of name calling and finger pointing, and so it's going to end up.
In the courts.
In terms of dollars tax dollars, that's a secondary question. In the sense of legality, it will undoubtedly be challenged in courts. California is i believe the fifth largest economy in the world, perhaps the fourth now, and certainly the largest in payer, if you will, to the federal government.
So there's a lot at stake for both parties. There's sort of I think glib suggestion, well maybe California shouldn't pay in and you know, of course, the federal government is saying, well, we're going to stop all funding, you know, for your sanctuary policies. These are laws that have been on the books for a number of years and they basically do prohibit local authorities. And the police chief was very clear about this from participating in civil immigration action,
which by and large immigration is civil. Increasingly they are seeking you know, immigration authorities are seeking criminal warrants for various and sundry acts, people who have outstanding warrants and so on. But by and large, there is no offense criminal offense strictly related to unlawful presence in the United States.
You've described the tension between protesters in law enforcement over the weekend. Could you describe the tension between California state officials, Los Angeles officials, and the federal government in Washington. How tense is that situation?
Very tense.
I mean, you know, this is a war of words for now and litigation, but yeah, it's a very tense, complicated situation. ICE has said, according to Chief McDonald, they're not necessarily going to or they've not come to an agreement to share information of like, hey, we're going to go do this on this day.
So it's a delicate balance.
But what we're seeing is increasing pressure on ICE one to up its arrest It's been made abundantly clear to ICE officials three thousand arrests minimum a day.
Steven Miller has talked about this.
A Chief aid to the President, who's one of the chief architects of the immigration policy. He wants more, and he wants, you know, a million plus apprehensions a year and deportations, and he wants this mass deportation carried out at any cost. He has said in social media posts, federal law is supreme. You don't get a vote and buy and large, speaking to Mark Karen Bass in that context. So it's tense, and it's getting tenser. You know, where does it end? Court is undoubtedly where it ends.
How do you think that mayors of other cities, governors of other states are watching what's unfolding here? Do you see this as a test case something that they might have to prepare themselves for in other places?
I think certainly.
You know, the President made it clear yesterday when he said, and this is a paraphrase, but troops everywhere.
Now, it was unclear from his order.
You know, the order did not make specific notation of California. There's been discussion prior to this of mobilizing twenty thousand National Guard troops to aid with the mass deportation.
The question has always.
Lingered, is that aiding in civilian law enforcement, which of course runs up against possi coomatatis and the long standing legal principle that the military does not have a role in civilian law enforcement, in fact, is strictly.
Prohibited from that.
Does this now test that does he invoke the Insurrection Act? There's been a lot of discussion of that right. The Tray of Defense, Pete hag Seth has said, hey, I've got marines on standby at Camp Pendleton. Well, marines are built for one thing, right, and that's war fighting.
By late Monday afternoon, the federal government had mobilized five hundred marines to respond to the LA protests.
You know, is this Pandora's box?
I suspect is the question are we in for another summer of broad civil unrest, not just here in Los Angeles but in other communities. We've seen community responses in Massachusetts, in other communities where large raids have taken place and you know, arrests outside immigration courthouses.
We've seen responses.
Generally they have been peaceful, perhaps loud, but we've not seen what we're seeing here in Los Angeles. And I think other mayors, if you are Chicago, if you are Boston, if you are in New York, and there's been a lot of imaginations in.
New York, of course, over you know, will they help? Will they not?
You have to be looking at this and saying, I wonder what's next?
Is this about to happen here?
If you're a mayor of a large city, you have to be thinking to yourself, maybe I should chat with my governor, Maybe I should chat with my police and have some preparations.
I cannot fathom a.
World in which a well positioned mayor doesn't say to themselves, we might have something.
This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gerra. To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast offer. If you like this episode, make sure to follow and review The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.