A Brain Implant To Use An iPhone With Your Thoughts

bciyes as they're called, have taken a leap. Rapid advances in both medical technology and just plain tech have opened up new possibilities for using small, implanted devices to improve the lives of people with any number of limitations. They plan to look at epilepsy, stroke, dementia, traumatic brain. They want to put chips in or near your brain to treat depression. So there are lots of doctors and scientists thinking very creatively about how to use all of these.

That's Bloomberg reporter Sarah McBride. She covers this corner of the tech world, and a little later in the show, I'll talk to her about the growing number of startups looking to bring these devices to market. First, though, let's

get a look at one of them ourselves. Doctor Tom Oxley is a neuro interventionist and CEO of Synchron that's a startup that's working on a device to allow paralyzed people to control their iPhones or search the web, or just call up a movie on Netflix with their thoughts. He agreed to give us a tour of his lab in Brooklyn, New York. Synchron's office is typical tech startup, big open room, desks and computers, caches in the corner for collaboration, and free snacks in the kitchen. Across the

hall is the lab. It's a large raw warehouse space that's divided in two. On one side, in true startup fashion, we have a pickleball corn which is very popular. The other side is filled with workbenches that are strewn with electronic equipment, and one of them is the device we're here to see. Are we able to see one of the devices? Yeah? Yeah, take you back over right, So this is the device. I'm from a colonial state of Britain, so I use the metric system, So I'm holding about

a fifty centimeta lead. The lead on one end has a self expanding stint, which is similar in look to the type of stint that you might have if you have a hot attack. I'm going to try to describe this thing. The stent is an open weave of this whisper thin silver wire about the length of a medium paper clip. There's an array of tiny dots. There's answers. Actually likens them to microphones, and they sit where the

wires cross over each other. The device collapses down small enough that it can be inserted through a vein in the neck, and then it expands once it's in place, and the stint is attached to a long coated cable of bundled wire about as big around as a piece of angel hair pasta there's one wire for each dot, and as I understand it, over time it embeds itself within the vessel, which which makes the signal stronger exactly.

So think of that like a tattoo. If the cells grow over the system, the ability to record local brain activity is better. Once it's encapsulated in tissue and it stays there and it generates no ongoing well where we're

going to prove that it generates no ongoing inflammation. But we feel good about that because there's a long history of decades of the use of stents in the heart and brain, and we're using the exact same materials that have always been used for these systems, so they can live in there like a tattoo for a lifetime safely. And then they on the other end, you'll see a plug and the plug goes into a it's kind of like a AirPod container for the Apple AirPods, but it's

thinner than that. Yeah, that's a little bit elongated, and it sits under the skin, so you could feel a little bump in the chest if you had one in your chest. And then the wire runs beneath the skin. Yeah, this is all implanted in the body. And then there is a Bluetooth protocol that sends the information out of the body. So then we get to the external components.

And if you imagine there's an external component about the size of an iPhone, I would think of this like a Bluetooth mouse and is able to connect to any device and give control over a system. It does the battery run for years, similar to a pacemaker. Does it require a charging It runs for years. Once the stent is implanted and hooked up, those tiny sensor darts attached to those wires can start listening to the brain signals.

So the brain has about eighty billion neurons and each of those neurons has electrons running down a bit of cell tissue, which is called an action potential, and the action potential generates a firing of the neuron. If you were to listen to them, it would sound like a whole bunch of fireworks across the whole domain of the brain. And depending on how close you are to each individual neuron,

you can hear activity that relates to certain functions. So the brain is broken into functions, and if you're in any of those domains and you see the brain firing, you can presume that there's some processing of information as it relates to that domain. For us, we can't get down to the individual neurons, but we can hear the firing of populations of neurons, and that looks like changes

in voltage. So we literally are recording changes in electron flow that represent activation of brain tissue in real time that's nearby their senses. To record those changes in the flow of electrons, the device needs to be as close to the brain as passable. Synchrome does that by going in through the jugular vein in the neck. Yeah, So one thing that might be worth pointing out is that we are building technology that goes into the veins, not

the arteries. So the arteries carry blood into the brain, and if they get blocked, then you're stopping auction getting to the brain. The veins are the drain pipes of the blood out of the brain, and so we're coming up the backside up the drain pipes. So the jugular vein is in the neck, and we move backward to the flow of blood up the jugular vein and we

take a turn into what's called the transverse sinus. We take another turn into the superior sagittal sinus, and that is a big pipe that carries up over to the top vertex of the of the brain, and that is where the motor cortex exists. So we actually stop there. And the reason we've done that is because it's it's it's a safe domain to be in. It's a large blood vessel, it's it's got access to the motor cortex.

It's quite robust. There are other blood vessels that we're starting to work towards that are going to give increasing access to more motor cortex, but we're staying within that domain to get into the jugular vein. If you just touch your collar bone into your neck just above the collar bone. You're probably touching your jugular vein. So we'd put a little needle in there and then put a wire and then a catheter and then push that up heading upwards and the catheter goes up through the base

of the skull into the brain. Actually says it actually isn't that big a deal to get the device in place. The procedure is not performed in the operating room. It's performed in a cath lab. The patients lie down on the table. We don't cut open the skull, use a catheter to slip your way up blood vessels into the brain, and we can deliver all sorts of things. And what we have figured out is how to deliver electronics into the brain. So what does that look like in real life?

A patient has the device implanted, and then what are they able to do? What would be an example of something that a person going to do with that ability to metaphorically click the mouse. So on the Apple iPhone, there is a way in which you can start to control the iPhone without having to touch the screen if you have an ability to send command clicks into the iPhone. So we have our patients sending their command functions and we've integrated into the iPhone where they're able to navigate

their way and use the iPhone. It's not as fast as what you and I can do with our fingers, but Apple have created mechanisms of accessibility control that allow these types of inputs to work. So that's a really big deal. We're giving our patients back control over the iPhone. We're also working on a Windows platform with a different approach, but the thing that we're realizing is for people who are severely paralyzed, what they primarily want is a stable, robust,

easy to use, rapidly responsive system that doesn't fail. And so we have to be careful if we go for two complicated training programs or calibrations, or it very quickly becomes frustrating to use. So we've really got a approach around simplicity and robustness from what we're hearing our patients want. So this enables people to say sounded tax message or to search the web. Well, I mean, once you've got control of your iPhone, you can do whatever your iPhone

can do. But the things that are relevant, we think from a patient perspective, things basic elements of what you might call digital activities of daily living, Sending text messages, checking your email, responding to an email, checking your bank account and making a payment, doing some shopping, arranging your medication, joining a call with your physician. All those things can mean that you don't need someone else around you all the time helping you with these things. That's the goal

is improving independence. How close is Tom Akley to reaching that goal. We'll talk about that after the break. Now that we have a good idea of how sync RAN's device works, I asked Ham, I actually how close he is to bringing it to market? We have an early version that's in trial with a low number of human subjects. The FDA has approved six subjects in the US, we've done four in Australia, and those are subjects have been

improved to receive the device. Yeah. These are people who have severe paralysis, who can't use their hands to control digital devices that you and I have become probably addicted to, so replacing lost hand function due to diseases such as spinal cord injury, stroke als, multiple sclerosis. And how long

will the trial last? The formal assessments of safety and efficacy, which is how well the device works, will be assessed over a twelve month period, but the patients keep using the device after that point, and we're learning from the people who are going through lives with paralysis. We're still

learning what the needs are. We're in a position now where are looking to be the first company that's going to go through this process in the discussion with the FDA, and it's going to set the scene for the industry. And when does it begin, Well, we are hoping to

launch our pivotal study within two years. A pivotal is a phase three study, which generally means that you have to set a outcome which you agree upon is clinically meaningful, is like, it means something that is useful for the patient is going to improve their lives, and you achieve that in the study in a pre specified, controlled manner.

The feasibility stage, which is what we're in now, is more about preparing to test certain methods of assessment to know that you've you're on the right track to demonstrating a very clear cut level of impact for the patient. I asked actually where his company fits into this growing universe of tech startups that are all exploring ways to use brain computer interfaces. So firstly, we are within the

implantable brain computer interface domain. Within the implantable brain computer interface domain, we are the company that are confined to the blood vessels. So the word intervention is interventional New radiology is the method with which our technology is implanted into the brain. The other companies in the implantable space are removing at least some amount of skull to deliver hardware into the brain. There are pros and cons with being in the blood vessel. The procedure is less invasive

in that there's no disruption to the skull. However, we can't get as close to individual neurons in the brain because we stay within the blood vessel. That's bad because we don't get as much information, but it's good because there's decades of evidence to show that existing in the blood vessels over lifetime can be safe and stable. Difference.

The challenge for us is with you know, lower data rates coming out of the brain, but with a system that we anticipate to be stable, what does that mean in terms of what the patients are able to perform? You know, if I was to look forward with more and more access to more regions of brain, more information flow can happen, and the more information flow can happen, the more the user is able to engage with systems.

You know, our brains computing powers goes far beyond that of our ability to communicate our current state of our brain, and this technology will use that as a mechanism of overcoming problems that we otherwise can't solve because the limitations of the human body. I mean, ask you some of the disc choke questions that I'm guessing some of our listeners might be wondering. I know, I am can this thing be hacked? It uses Bluetooth, which is not always

the most secure thing. So privacy and security are a big focus for the FDA, and there've been a discussion point between US and the FDA, and I mean, you know, hacking, I don't quite know what that would look like. I guess kind of in the same it would be like saying, can a bluetooth mouse get hacked? That's controlling my computer. So if the computer gets hacked, things can be done. But it's not like your brain can get hacked, because

it's really like you're controlling and joystick. The US government's been investing in this space for decades and it's now starting to mature into an industry and we're seeing commercial offerings on the horizon. It's very exciting and I think for patients that just to give you an example of

you know what patients need this technology. The patients that we're dealing with right now, they go to bed and a family member told me a couple of weeks ago that they can't fall asleep themselves because they don't know that their father, their brother, whoever it is it's in the other room, has a way to call out if there's a problem. So if you are not able to move the muscles in your body, or talk properly, or use a device, how do you call for help? How

do you reach out? And there are some systems out there, but I think what BCI has the potential to solve that issue of always being connected when you want to be connected and reaching out using digital systems to engage in your world. And you and I take that for granted. You know, we all sleep with the phone within arm's length away from us, and we wake up in the morning,

we grab it straight away. This technology enables people who don't have that use of their hands to engage in a way that you and I take for granted, and that's that's what this is about. I'm actually thanks so much for speaking with me today. Thank you very much. When we come back, we'll hear about other companies that are also working on these brain computer interfaces. As we've heard, Synchron is just one of several tech companies working on

these brain computer interfaces. Sarah McBride covers venture capital and startups for Bloomberg, and she's here to tell us what others are working on. Can you tell us a bit about why brain science has taken off so quickly? Well, I think there's something about it that just captures the imagination. It just sounds so futuristic and crazy. But then I think people can imagine the possibilities. Then I think people see that some of this is real. They read about trials.

For example, at Synchron, people have synchron devices in their brains, so it seems to be actually happening, and you can imagine a time in the future when there'll be a few thousand people walking around with these things in their heads. How long has this technology been around. The truth is it's been around for years, twenty thirty years, depending on

what event you choose. To date it back to there's a company called black Rock Neurotech that's been doing this for decades, but nobody really paid attention to it until Elon Musk came around. And when Elon Musk, who was a track record of getting things done, said that he was going to work on this, everybody started paying attention. But there have been some versions of this used for a long time. When I first heard about it, I thought there's no way anyone would get chips of any

sort put in their brain. And then I learned that there are a lot of people who have epileptic seizures who have chips in their brains that try to stop epileptic seizure. There are people with Parkinson's same thing, so I realized, yes, there are certain people who would definitely

do this. A lot of the different startups that are working in this area seem to be trying to address medical conditions like Alzheimer's or other diseases, or physical limitations that allow limbs to operate, or other things like that. But are there other people working on things that don't have to do with trying to fix something, but just trying to extend our capabilities as humans? You know, les.

I think there probably are people working on that type of thing, but they're keeping very quiet about it because it just sounds so freaky. So I've heard people say before, why don't we just download languages into our brains. I've actually talked with somebody about is that possible, And it sounds like we can't do it now, but theoretically it would be possible. How However, your brain is a little

bit like a hard drive. If you downloaded an entire language like Japanese, then there might be limits as to what else you could put in there. Every time Elon Musk talks about this, he mentions crazy things that I think, Oh, that's surely not possible. He has said, oh, I'd like to download music directly into my brain, listen to music play directly into my brain. Or I'd like to cure

addiction with neuralink. And every time I heard something like that, I thought, oh, he must be really stretching it now, that can't be true. And then I would go find some very smart people who tell me, well, that's not possible now, but that's not actually impossible. Theoretically we could do that with a device like this. So every time I thought something sounded outlandish when I looked into it, there were actually smart people who told me it wasn't

as outlandish as it sounded. Can you tell us some of the companies that are doing this and what they're coming up with? Sure, So there are a handful of players that are pretty advanced, and by advanced, I mean they are either close to getting approval for clinical trials or they have clinical trials in process. One of the companies that already has an early trial in place is Sincron, which you just visited. Brain Gate and black Rock, And

this isn't Blackrock the investment bank. It's Blackrock, the company that makes brain Gate. They published the first results of their device in humans in two thousand and six, so that was somebody who could control a click on a computer screen, very simple robotic devices, and then they went on to do robotic arms after that, but that was

chips in brains. When Elon Musk started talking about Neuralink, he said he wanted to help people with severe brain injuries, and he specifically mentioned stroke and cancer, lesions and other types of challenges that patients have. Then they seem to have kind of homed in on paralysis and they've also talked about blindness and have they had success in helping alleviate these problems not in people. They're trying to sign

up patients right now. They've tweeted about if you ever have any interest in being in a neuralink trial, please register here. That doesn't mean that they're in humans yet, Like that's just kind of building up a database so that once the FDA gives them permission, they could start implanting their devices and paralyzed people or whoever it is. What's another company that you've looked into. The former president of Neuralink, Max Hodak, started a company called Science, and

he has a few ex Neuralink people working there. One of the problems they're working on is blindness. And just as synchron wants to use blood vessel as a backdoor into the brain, Maxhodak at Science wants to use the optical nerve as a backdoor into the brain. Precision Neuroscience, founded by another co founder of Neuralink, Ben Rappaport, has said that they plan to look at epilepsy, stroke, dementia,

traumatic brain injuries. There's another category of company that might not be considered brain computer interfaces, but they want to put chips in or near your brain to treat depression. There are companies that are already using chips to treat things like epilepsy. So there are lots of doctors and scientists thinking very creatively about how to use all of these So who's funding these companies? Where does the money

come from. I've had a number of founders tell me that there's no way traditional venture capitalists would normally fund this type of company and probably wouldn't have backed any of them except once Elon Musk got involved. And now some pretty mainstream venture capitalists are getting involved and funding some of these companies. Also, neuroscientists and doctors who might have gotten into some other type of medicine are now

considering working in the field. There are a lot of bright people attracted to it now because of the Elon must kalo, but also mainstream health venture capitalists like Arch for example, is one that's back to a couple of these companies, and it's something where you can also get government grants. And there are a lot of research universities where people are doing a lot of the preliminary work and then starting companies based on what came out of

their university lab. When you look down the road, given how fast this technology is changing, what do you see five years from now? What are some of the things that you think will actually be in use by then? You know, honestly, five years from now, I think there'll be a lot more trials. I think there'll be bigger trials, the type known as pivotal trials. I don't think you'll be able to go to your doctor and get a prescription for this the way you could for lasik now.

I think maybe in ten years, But five years is I think still too tight a timetable. But in ten years, I think it'll be more like the early days of lasik. And then in twenty years, I think it won't seem that out of the ordinary for people to have some kind of brain implant. Right now. I've talked to patients who are in some of these trials. I had one young woman who was trialing chips for her epilepsy who told me I'm the bionic woman now because she had chips in her brain and she felt very kind of

special and unusual. I'm not sure that it will still seem special in twenty years, but five years, yes, and it's still going to be pretty unusual. Sarah McBride, thanks so much for being here. Thank you so much. Wes, thanks for listening to us here at the Big Take. It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more shows from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen. And we'd love to hear from you.

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