The Oscars, Louis Theroux & Iran Soccer Team

Hi, I'm not Hannah. And I'm Sarah. And this is Big Small Talk. This is the podcast where we try and cover the entirety of the news cycle, from the serious to the frivolous, all in one place. Because loving pop culture doesn't mean you don't understand politics. And today we're going to be talking about the Oscars, why we can't access Pornhub, Louis Thoreau's Inside the Manosphere documentary.

the latest on Iran and Britney Spears' DUI. But before we begin today's episode, we would like to start by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which we're recording on, the Gadigal people, and pay our respects to elders past and present. Guys, you have no idea what we've been through today. You may notice this is genuinely not how I heel. Oh yeah. Not kidding about that. This is our producer Helen.

who's done some bad producing today. Oh no, Sarah. Kidding. Um so one of my greatest fears in life has been recording an entire episode and then realizing It hasn't recorded. Yeah. And the fear was realized today. It was no longer that fear does not exist for you, Sarah, because we have it We've just recorded for an hour and a half. And then we walk out. And Helen goes.

Hmm, says my mic's not plugged in. It said some rare, rare error, DPS, blah blah blah. And everyone said, I've never seen that before. And I said Oh. We go, Well maybe it doesn't mean anything and then it came through and It means everything. So what you're getting is a rehearsed take of this episode.

On top of the fact this is the first time I've never recorded without Hannah, it's Helen's first time on Big Small Talk in the chat. You might have heard her through. She will speak on the mic outside, but um full episode, which is exciting. And uh well Helen's no stranger to uh to hosting. She hosts the briefing all the time and

helps a lot with research and notes, so it shouldn't feel that different. No. It should feel chaotic. God, it feels chaotic, but hey, it better be bloody good. We've had a practice. No. Is it gonna be good or we're gonna spend the whole time being like And if you didn't like that, you should have heard us say it the first time. It was

I thought we would also hear from Hannah still. Yes. Because as we know, she's not here. And the reason Helen is here is because Hannah has been debating in Oxford and she won. She did. She won. Very cool. I'm loving her update. And this is what she sent us. Hello, Queens. It is me. I could not miss a week.

It is nine thirty-nine A.M. Sydney time that I'm recording this on Tuesday, but it's eleven thirty-nine PM on Monday night that I'm recording this. And Sarah and producer slash host Queen Helen

have been like, can you provide a personal headline? And right now I am full of cheese fondue, which is super exciting. I was spending a couple of days in France with two of my best friends from university, Hailey and Roxanne, who are married and living over here, and we're just having some nice time together.

More on that next week. Um but the big headline is that yes, my team did win the debate at Oxford last week, a hundred and forty four votes to thirty two. So I'd call it a thrashing, proudly. And I was absolutely stoked with how it went. The YouTube video will take a few weeks to come out, I believe. Um I'm very excited about it. I'm very happy with how it all went. I had the best time. I've got a lot more to unpack on the pod next week. But love you all so much.

The news cycle remains completely and utterly fucked. And I miss you guys, so I'll see you next week. See you next Tuesday, legit see you next Tuesday. We're laughing, but I've already heard it. Old news, Hannah, old news. Yeah, I'm s it's so cool. I'm so I'm so proud of her. I should also add to the chaotic energy that I literally was at home. with my throat on fire and a fever yesterday. But I've come and I've rallied

I actually think my voice sounds better now that it's warmed up. When I s when I did the last episode, it was sounding a bit low ener low energy. Now it's pretty good. I would dare say there was moments we may have sounded a little nervous in the past episode, but now. We're ready. Let's get into it.

The 2026 Oscars happened yesterday in LA and here are all the biggest moments again. So some of the big winners included one battle after another. They took home six Oscars including Best adapted screenplay, best supporting actor, best film editing, best casting, and best directing for Paul Thomas Anderson.

And the film also took home the biggest award of the night, Best Picture, with Nicole Kidden was actually the one who presented it to them, to Sarah Murphy and Paul Thomas Anderson. And this was a really big one for Paul because He's finally won his Oscar after two decades and fourteen nominations. So very happy for him. Also Did you know he was my well you did because I told you this is a fun fact before, but now you already know. But he is my Rudolph.

husband. Which I didn't know until you told me, but that is a fun fact, and also kind of love him even more now. I know. Also Big winner was Sinners. They took home four Oscars, including Best Score, Best Original Screenplay by Ryan Kugler. Best cinematography for Autumn Durald Akapow. And she also made history as the first woman to ever win best cinematography in the ninety eight years of the Academy Awards. So ever. Yeah, which is

Absolutely insane that it's taken this long because like how? How I don't understand. No, genuinely. I'm so honored to be here and I really want all the women in the room to stand up. 'Cause I feel like I don't get here without you guys. Last the film also saw Michael B. Jordan taking home one of the biggest categories, best actor, officially beating out Leonardo DiCaprio, but of course

Timothy Chalamet. I mean great for Michael B. Jordan. I am a huge fan of him. I love him. Um but tough night, tough watch. This whole week has been a tough watch. for Timothy Chalabet. I think a lot of people are talking about like, did he actually lose the Oscar because of his comments about the opera and ballet. I actually don't think that's possible. That news kind of broke on the final day of voting, I believe. So I think it was

All but sealed, really. Yeah. Um, so I don't think it impacted that, but I do think it is Crazy how much attention this has got. And they did not shy away from it at the Oscars at all. I mean, I think it was about ten seconds before Conan O'Brien made this joke. Security is extremely tight tonight. I just gotta mention that. Yeah. I'm told there's concerns about attacks from both the opera and ballet communities. They're just mad you left out jazz. Uh I have to say

Part of me is a little surprised, mainly because I didn't ever expect a man to be cancelled like this, like for something like this. Yes. Which is Kind of. Refreshing in a way, but kind of feminist. Yeah. No. But but no. But like Marty Supreme was also empty-handed. Which I was shocked by that. I was really shocked by that. I know, because it was a really good film. It was a good film and I I really enjoyed it. I loved the filmmaking and the craft behind it all because I actually listened to

um a director's cut interview with Josh Stafty, the director of it. And The intensity that he made this film, like even down to the casting. Um you you mentioned before the new the new Oscar for casting that we had this year. I was like, surely that would go to Marty Supreme because they spoke about how they casted every single extra and character a lot of them were real life people as well. As opposed to Not AI. Not AI. Um

Yes, I look I do think it was really cool, but I did think Sinners and One Battle After Another was so deserving. Yes. And I also think I like that they won because they are both

Films with really clear messages and takeaways. I'm not really sure what the takeaway from Marty Supreme was, except that like a guy's a delusional thing. Yeah, like he will not let anyone in stand in his way. I also think that's part of the irony, the fact that this is What's dominating the headlines now for Timothy Chalamet when so much of his genius marketing was based on this like

alternate personality. Yes. Actually we're not even sure if it is alternate but this could be him. Now and actually something we were talking about in the first take was um tell me uh Diet Prada, which is a really good account if people wanted to follow. uh it's like a fashion account and they were kind of chronicling the different looks that Timothy Chalamet has worn over the years from red carpets and I had forgotten

how experimental and flamboyant he was before. Like he was wearing backless sequin numbers, suspenders that were bedazzled. Yeah. All sorts of things. And I know it's because he's reflecting Marty Supreme, most likely. But God, he's just not French anymore, is he? Yeah, he's kind of I also saw that post and I scrolled through it. And I was like, wow, he used to be so fun and so I think you mentioned the Harry Styles esque of it all in the previous take.

He really did have this kind of feminine energy that was creative and fun, but he was still Timothy. Like but now he's a bit bit more bland. I know. I also thought it was you know, it was hard not to take it as a slam dunk that they at like near the beginning of the show as well, they had this performance, um

the song I Lied to You from Sinners. Mm-hmm. And out of retirement comes baller famous ballerina Misty Copeland with Timothy in the front low and it Misty's also interesting'cause she has spoke to the drama about Yeah.

Timothy's comments. Yeah, but I also think yeah, she mentioned those comments, she touched on that, but Timothy and Marty Supreme, I'm gonna say. Marty Supreme used her in the promotion, in the marketing of Marty Supreme, like you the bomber jackets that everyone was sporting, all those celebrities.

She was in one of those. She was all over the campaign. Timothy even posted a story of her on his personal Instagram account, like praising her art. And there was this beautiful photo of her doing ballet. So she was used. in being one of the greats, being this mighty supreme. What do you mean? And this is what makes me so confused about all of this because his mum and his sisters and his auntie like

He are all ballerinas. He's clearly grown up with a respect for the arts in an artistic household. Like I find it genuinely hard to believe that that is his true thoughts. Yes. Yeah. I it all of its own. Why so we why would he say it? Why? Also Frankenstein took home three, including best makeup and hairstyling, which makes sense for how long Jacob will already spend in that chair. It was like something excruciating.

Best production design and best costume design. K-pop Demon Hunters took home two awards for best original song with golden and best animated feature film. And then of course best actress went to Jessie Buckley, who took the win for Hamnet. She's had a clean sweep this award season. Uh she beat Australian Roseburne, which is sad, but she did also make history as the first Irish actress to win in this category. and was very much a favourite to win.

This is really something. My family, my Irish family, they're all here. Ireland bought them flights. Where are you? Ma where I can you just I uh Mom, Dad, thank you for teaching us to dream and to never be defined by expectation, but to carve from your own passion. And then we had a Tide Award for Best Live Action Short Award, and that Was really confusing'cause it felt like a mistake. Like I was so confused watching it.

Only the seventh time ever in the ninety-eight years of the Oscars that there's been a tie. Yeah. And it reminded me of that moonlight moment when they had the mistake and they literally announced the wrong best picture winner. Like, what the heck? Well, I just don't think people knew it was an option. Everyone was deeply confused. Like, I don't even have a tie. Good to know it can.

Okay, some other quick thoughts I had while watching. Um one is that I know it's live, but God I wish they threw in some more fake laughs and claps. Like it felt so awkward at times, especially Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans. Their bit seemed so awkward for for no good reason. And again, like they would pause for a laugh and nothing would happen. I was like, I wouldn't put that in post surely something can be done. Um Anna Wintor and Anne Hathaway came out, obviously

In excitement for Devil Wears Prada to Anna Wintour I think is quite funny. She played the role of Miranda Priestley on stage, which is herself, for those who don't know. Um, but I'll play the bit. A character's costume is key to telling a story. One could argue that one's wardrobe in real life is also key. Does it make one appear elegant and attractive on, say, the most important night in Hollywood when say the most important people in fashion will be judging how one looks. Anna?

Um, just curious, um, w what what do you think of my address tonight? And the nominees are also the Bridesmaids reunion on on stage. So the cast of Bridesmaids, because it's been fifteen years, came out and did a bit together, which was one of the funnier moments of the night, I would say. Girls are funny. Women are funny guys. And I also just can't believe it's been fifteen years. Like they are perfect cinema that is still I don't even think a movie Mm.

that kind of rom com space has beat it. No. We haven't seen anything like that. It was so good. There was the in memoriam section, um, for Rob Reiner, Diane Keaton, Robert Radford and Katherine O'Hara, which was so sad. Robert Reiner, they had all the cast members of his film come out on stage.

uh for Diane Keaton, Rachel McAdams spoke and as someone who I think I've spoken about this on the podcast before, but like loves um the family stone, that was heartbreaking to watch and Barbara Streisand came out for Robert Redford. I did think it was a little confusing that there was nothing for James Vanderbeek or Eric Dane. Yeah. Uh considering they very recently just passed. But I'm

guessing it's because even though they've both done film, they're more known for T V. I I think that would be why it would maybe be more of an Emmy's thing. We had to not even be in the in the cycle, yeah. Like eve yeah. I did also think Golden, the K-pop, that was performed by the cast of K-pop demon hunters and I did think it came a little late in the piece. Like I think it would have been like ten PM in the States when it came on. I was like, Jesus.

Uh but I did think all the celebrities with their little light torches was adorable. That was fun. I really enjoyed that because it was like Leonardo DiCaprio and everyone, like all these people you're like, I've never seen you smile. And then they're holding a glow up Stick. But how do we see the political side of it all play out? Well, I think it was

There was a lot less pins than we saw for the Golden Globes or for the Grammys. Um, but I do think, you know, the fact that one battle after another and Sinners were the front-running films. Both those films are innately political. Um I also wanna bive a big shout out to Tavia Bardem.

who uh was presenting the award for best international feature film and he was pretty unapologetic in his directness, saying, no to war, free Palestine. He also wore a brooch uh against war and when the carpet, he was asked about it. He said he was against what was happening in Iran and uh he said it was the same brooch he wore to the Oscars decades ago when he was protesting Iraq.

I also want to shout out one of the more powerful speeches of the evening for me was from the team behind the Netflix Doco short film All the Empty Rooms, uh, which Spotlights all the empty bedrooms of children killed in school shootings. and the a mother of one of of of a child that has died in a school shooting was on stage.

And she said, Gun violence is now the number one cause of death in kids and teens. We believe that if the world could see their empty bedrooms, it would be a different America. Also worth shouting out David Borenstein's film. So his film was Mr. Nobody Against Putin and it took home best documentary feature film. And for those who don't know about that, it is a documentary that explores Putin's administration.

and the effect that it's had on Russian people. And I'm actually just gonna play his speech because I I thought it was one of the most impressive. Mr. Nobody Against Putin is about how you lose your country. And what we saw when working with this footage, it's that you lose it through countless small little acts of complicity.

When we act complicit, when a government murders people on the streets of our major cities, when we don't say anything, when oligarchs take over the media and control how we could produce it and consume it. We all face a moral choice, but luckily even a nobody is more powerful than you think.

Another layer to the Oscars was recognizing who decided not to come, who were the no-shows. Um and one that I think a lot of people have seen online and has been spoken about was the male lead actor from The Voice of Hind Rajab. And he took to Instagram posting that he was unable to attend the awards even though the film was up for an Oscar, obviously. And he said it was because he was not able to enter the US because of his Palestinian citizenship.

And that the US administration has a ban on Palestinians entering the US that was signed by Trump in December. Yeah. And in his post he said, You can block a passport, but you cannot block a voice. I also think what's uh interesting when we're looking at this in particular. is and I know Matt Matt X I V. Yeah. Go follow him if you don't. He's incredible as a creator. He pointed out that it's it is bizarre that the Academy hasn't said anything about that at all.

And it is sort of reminiscent to last year when um one of the films that won was about uh settlers in the West Bank. And when he the pal yeah, he was a Palestinian creator. when he went and then returned home, he was kidnapped and the Academy took weeks to say something like that. And I find it interesting that they're able to support these um messages and the importance of these films by nominating them, but they don't

support them then in the wider like it just feels weird. It feels like acknowledging them, giving an Oscar but then it's like, okay, but then what and then sign Yeah, it's really I also, um, when we're speaking of people that weren't there Sean Penn wasn't there and he won an Oscar?

And there was a lot of conversation about where he could have possibly been. And this morning, uh, it came out, uh, that he's with Zelensky in Ukraine. Yeah. Wow. And he has been a day one supporter of Ukraine as well.

Another thing I want to talk about this year are the red carpet looks. Again, I do find Grammy's fashion a lot more entertaining. Even Golden Globes, like o I know Oscars is meant to be the most formal. Um, but across the board at all of these award shows so far, everyone's in black and white. Yeah the the best dress for me was probably Barbie Ferreira. Um she didn't even get a lot of coverage, uh but she was the only one in color. Like it was very recession indicator. Um but I did also

Love Jessie Buckley. I think she was in a a big colourful dress. Anne Hathaway, I thought looked incredible. Yeah, she did. Rose Byrne wore something quite similar. But I think Something that I noticed and I know I'm not the only one to have noticed it is Everyone looked very, very thin. Mm-hmm. And I know it feels super, super icky to point that out or to say anything. Um, and to just talk talk about women's bodies in general, but like, can we? Because it is an elephant in the room right now.

And the way everyone looked rail, rail thin. For me, actually distracted from the fashion this year. We do need to speak about it sometimes because Because if you don't, what are the implications of that? I think the problem is is that it's it does obviously have this trickle down effect into informing our culture and our beauty standards. And I wouldn't say like

It it it was pretty extreme though. Like I'm looking at people's skeletons on the carpet. It was, and it also kind of takes us back a step or back in time to when, you know, two thousands we had You know, the quote unquote heroin sheep. Yeah, yeah. No, I think we're back there. I think we're completely back there. I agree. Um but yeah, that was a wrap on the twenty twenty six Oscars.

The porn sites are down. Platforms are blocking Australian users in a bid to protest against new age verification rules. Have you seen this one around? Have you tried have you tested it out? No, it hasn't impacted me personally yet. I uh I mean I think this is interesting'cause I think this conversation sort of fits into the broader conversation around under sixteens of social media. Um, I'm just to see how this actually plays out. But

Yeah. Yeah. On that with the under 16 social media, this comes in now only three months after we saw the social media ban come in. But essentially what this is, is this past week we've seen Pornhub, red tube, you pawn and tune eight. They have all been unavailable to Australians here and this is in protest to our government's new age verification rules that require Aussies to prove that they're over eighteen before accessing adult content online.

So an example is if you try and access Pornhub right now, you're asked to log in to see porn. If you've got an account, great, you can log in. If you don't have an account though, it pops up with a little pop-up telling users that the site isn't accepting new account registrations in their region. So if you're in Australia, you literally cannot create an account on Pornhub to access the porn. Now the blocks came in.

just days before the official start of these new safety codes from our eSafety Commissioner. They were set to come in force on March 9th and they would require the platforms, so the organizations and platforms like Pornhub. to verify the ages of the users. But what's interesting about this as well is it doesn't actually just apply to pornography. It also covers R-rated video games and sexually explicit AI chatbots. So what we've been seeing with the rise of Grok and open AI chat.

providing or making porn. Under the new rules though, it's the platforms that will be responsible for this. And if they do not follow the codes, they could actually risk fines of up to seventy seven million Australian dollars. So if they don't take these steps in introducing the age verification systems, it's pretty much on them. I think in

theory, that sounds great. I think I mean God, we're gonna talk about later in the episode the Manosphere and Louis Thoreau's documentary. I think we're seeing how damaging these sites especially with AI now. We've spoken about it so many times on the podcast, but there has to be something done. I think what's interesting is putting the onus on these websites.

to enforce it. But I think obviously they won't. No, and it's so yeah, essentially it's putting the ball in their court and In response, Pornhub, Red Tube, UPorn, and Tune 8, they're actually all owned by the same parent company, so ALO. And they said in a statement that Australia is following a similar approach to the UK, which all our evidence shows does not effectively protect minors and instead creates harms relating to data privacy and exposure to illegal content on non compliant platforms.

So this is the question of, okay, so where are people getting their porn? How are they accessing it, well, they're using VPNs. And we know that VPNs, you know, they're these virtual private networks that make it look like you're in another country. So it makes it look like you're not in Australia. But we know how dangerous they can be and they can actually put people using them at greater risk of being targeted by hackers or cyber attacks.

and their personal information being accessed. And the other thing about VPNs is that You don't have to be over eighteen to use a VPN. Anyone can use a VPN. And we've seen in the last week a massive rise of Aussies using VPNs to access porn. So it could be anyone. Yeah. I mean I think It was similar to the debate we had when it was a social media thing, but I do think people just get creative for the most part. And we spoke about VPNs a lot back then.

I personally would have no idea how to get a VPN. But I think what's scary is when you limit access. It doesn't necessarily mean that people then, you know, just stop. It just means that potentially they look to unregulated websites that are going to have even darker material, you know, non consensual, I think it could potentially normalize that then. And I don't know how you begin regulating that. Yeah. And

Australians w like, they want porn. They're accessing porn because interestingly, we are usually in the top ten P countries of consumers of porn. But also like, what is it? Ninety five to ninety eight percent of the internet is Sexual content? Yeah, like it's really high. And when we look at why the e safety commissioner is doing this, the reasons behind it is all about protecting children. But they say that they are cracking down on content that is lawful but awful.

So they're targeting platforms and content featuring pornography, violence and self-harm, suicide and disordered eating. And those sites have to take the meaningful action to prevent under eighteens from accessing it. Because according to the eSafety research, one in three Aussie children between the ages of ten and seventeen have seen sexual images or videos online, and more than seventy percent have seen violent content. So that's when I'm talking about the suicidal disordered eating content.

But I just wanna point to just a few notes from Dr. Giselle Woodley. She's a researcher from the Edith Cowan University and she wrote this great piece in The Conversation that actually talks to teenagers and kids. So the ones that are being Or they're the ones that are trying to be protected by these new rules. She said that when she spoke to some young people about it that they were actually using porn as a useful source of

explicit information, so they would go to it to learn about representations of sex and bodies. But they would also feel that it did represent um unrealistic expectations of sex. I think back to Like being a teenager, whatever it is. And there were so many people that I know that were looking up, um, out of curiosity, sexual content. Yeah. I think a lot of that at the time, especially like early high school, was because we didn't have the like sex education around that.

So I understand that. I also understand that and there's a broader conversation here around um, you know, queer people that were able to see queer content when that's not otherwise uh displayed at all. Um, I do think our sex education has come a long way, um, especially now and thanks to people like Chanel Contos. The problem was it's also deeply, deeply unrealistic. I can't even imagine the impact things like

body standards for for boys and girls as well. Oh yeah. What's normalized in porn, I think we've already seen that as well in the rise and and conversations now around things like choking. Yeah, and and there have been so many valid and well documented concerns around um the harmful influences of pornography.

But another major issue of this is that this crackdown, it's resulted in not just children or under eighteen users not being able to access porn. It's everyone. So But that's because they've retaliated. Yeah. These websites. Yes. Because they've retaliated they've retaliated because The onus is up to them.

the government really hasn't given them a way out or another way unless they've got to abide by their rules or face these fines. Yeah. Well, I think there was one really good quote that was actually in a Guardian article of a a user whose name has been redacted but The porn uh Australian porn user said that the choices are link your perversions to your government ID or submit your face into the AI slot machine. So it's how are these age verifications going to actually work?

I don't think people are not gonna people do not want to do that. They don't want to put their ID or put their name towards something that they might feel quite private about. Yeah, no, I get that. Um, I get that. I think it'll be really this will be really interesting to watch how this plays out and how this stalemate plays out. Um I just think we're gonna continue to see a rise in VPNs. Yes.

Journalist Louis Thoreau has a new Netflix documentary Inside the Manosphere, which showcases the individuals driving this dangerous culture. As Louis Thoreau's number one fan. Really excited to be tackling this story. I think I've seen everything Louis Thoreau has ever made. Everyone jokes about me being a little miss history channel. It started with him. Yeah. It fully started with him.

So this documentary follows a group of online influencers, streamers, self appointed masculinity coaches who've built their following talking about Hustling, women, dating. And masculinity. Yeah. I'm gonna play a little grab here. This was uh something that was burnt in my brain after watching.

Are you married? No. I'm gonna get a lot of smoke for this. I always do. Everybody gets mad at me when they ask me about my relationship. Are you saying you're not in a monogamous relationship? One-sided monogamy, yeah. Women don't wanna sleep with other men when they love a man. One-sided monogamy means what? Means like, see, here we go. Here we go. Set me up. The mother of my children, the woman that I'm with, she doesn't talk to other. So stings, huh?

You seem upset by it. You seem upset by it. People get so upset with me about this. That's interesting that you thought that I was upset. I wish you thought it was a resonant motive. I I notice that people get very angry with me about this subject. Do I seem angry? No, but you do seem to be digging.

So we gotta get into some real stuff though, right? We should. Yeah. Let me tell you another thing. I don't promote it. I don't believe that every man should go out and have a bunch of women or have his wife have threesomes with his girl. Now. Is that something you do as well? Yeah, of course. I'm hiding nothing. I refuse to. I refuse to.

I refuse to. That for me, the whole concept of one-sided monogamy, you also have to see his face. And I think that was such a big part of this documentary. The way Louis does all of his documentaries, but particularly in this one, is he has a very show-don't tell approach. You know, he's not really going to

scold them necessarily. He kind of just lets them back themselves into a corner. Yes. And he'll just sort of make faces to the camera. Like, and there are definitely times that he pushes and he's good at it, but A lot of the time silence is a bit of a weapon with him. And he just lets them speak'cause he's not there to convince them. He's just there to showcase them. Yeah. And kind of understand, okay, give us an insight into their world, understand how it operates and

what they do. It was so funny, like one of the influencers was so worried, like, oh Louis Thoreau's gonna roast you like he does all the others. And it's like, he is, but that's just by putting the camera on you. Yes. Like Like it's just the access to you that he needs. Totally. And a lot of the time, as you just kind of said that Louis is not the one roasting them. It's then in turn the public or the audience. because he is literally just showcasing and showing us inside of a world.

And it's the public and it's the backlash that's a good thing. And look, some of the content was so deeply unsettling that he managed to capture like I'm surprised that they all agreed to do it. Actually, I'm not that surprised, but I'll get into that later. You know, there was another moment was one of one of the influences saying

That he he describes himself as a dictator um in his relationship because he dictates when he can put his dick in her. Um he called another girl a a dishwasher. Like it just goes on and on and on and on. It was quite terrifying. What I found interesting is they all claim that they're not misogynists. They're like, No, we love women. We just know what's better for them. They're like, Oh, we love women. We just understand them more. Yeah. I just and and

I think what was interesting about this docker was well that I I wasn't sure what to expect it to be. I think when talking about the manosphere, you don't really know where it can begin and end because it's such a big topic and there's so many different angles and so many different people affected by it now. But This focused almost entirely on the way it runs in an economic sense for those at the top of it, for those with the biggest voices in it.

And I think I had mixed feelings about that at first because, you know, I think we all know that this documentary came at such a pivotal time in the conversation, uh, especially after the success of something like Adolescence. Yeah. And so I think we all wanted it to really dig into the problem here that it's so deeply terrifying and there's such real life consequences for those on the other side of these influences, the ones that are being influenced.

And it didn't really touch on them. It focused on the influences. I know there's been backlash on that. I actually the more I think about it, the more I think that was quite purposeful. Yeah. I think that's because we all associate the manosphere with bad. We all are living consequences in a way. So many of us now know people that have. been indoctrinated into incel or like red pill culture or it's seeping through in our pop culture, it's seeping through in our politics, like

We are aware of that. What I didn't know was how it was actually operating because it doesn't show up in my algorithm. Hundred percent. And I think that's what really worked about this Doco is because it showed you How it works and how people easily get sucked into it. Yeah, but at the same time, like it's like you can see how they get sucked into it, but also

We associate it with something so terrifying and so bad and it is. Yeah. But what Louis showed is it's also dumb. Yeah. Oh. And we kind of knew that as well, but you're watching it and I just These influences are the masters of irony. Or either they're the masters of it or they genuinely can't grasp it. I'm not even gonna say their handles and their names because I think I feel a bit conflicted about giving them airtime at all.

But the irony was in their pyramid schemes and the fact that like these guys that are being influenced can put money into it, most likely lose it all. But You know, the influencer that created it will get a cut anyway. It's only really benefiting those at the top. But not even that. Like the fact that one of them owns.

an agency for OnlyFans girls. Yeah. Even though all of his content is about shitting on OnlyFans girls and women who are at all sexual or comfortable in their sexuality. Like and then there was the other one about a guy who was like My mum hates racism and homophobia and sexism, so I don't really say this stuff around her or I'll get a slap. But you're scared of your mum. Like th th

They don't even believe it. They don't even buy it. Yeah, and I think the OnlyFans one really, really made me like angry because He was openly saying, If my daughter was like this, I would disown her. I would never let my daughter do this. And then the same guy said, If I had a gay son, I would disown him. And then But I'll pay for their school fees using it, you know? Yes. And and when Louie like questioned him about it

Well, it's all just money to me. I'm a businessman at the end of the day. I'm a businessman. Like I'm gonna be hustle. I'm gonna succeed. Yeah. But I don't agree with I'm doing, but I'm gonna profit off all of these women. Again. Yeah. I a but I will say what I also think the DOCO did a good job of is um

Showing how this movement is powerful. because it plays on insecurities and insecurities that we all feel right now. That's insecurities about how to survive in this economy, of cost of living. There is so much research and articles and think pieces and we're also just seeing it play out of how stressful it is, especially for young men at the moment to make money, own a home. They are clearly playing into that

And drilling in this belief that having a regular nine to five job is that like you are you've submitted yourself to the m what they call the matrix. Yeah. And like a system that wants you to fail. Yes. Whereas if you were to break through, break out Go back to traditional values.

Join a pyramids, like whatever it is, then you will have financial freedom and you'll be the man. The young men are seeing them millions and they're making millions of dollars from these pyramids. All of this like so much of this is just vulnerable, vulnerable. Yes. Vulnerable people. All even the ones at the top.

It's also in the way they package this message that if you you know, it's it's your fault if you're still in a nine to five or if um you have a singular girlfriend. Like w if whatever it is, it's like You didn't work hard enough, you didn't grind hard enough, you're not an alpha, you know, your wife isn't gonna have her own place, like whatever it is. And it's like framing this as not an ideology or a worldview, but as a business.

It also throughout parts of me very much felt like a cult or religion. Like it was like it was appealing to people that needed it in a time in a place of need when it felt like their other options were exhausted. I also want to shout out while we're talking about this to Michelle Battersby. Uh I was watching her stories the other day. Love Michelle's content. And she was talking about how so much of what they're doing here as well is, yes, appealing to these vulnerable younger men.

But doing it through rage bait. Um and you know this is something Louis said as well, is like being a dickhead on the internet is extremely lucrative. Oh yeah. We have created that. And like, yes, these people are making bank. they don't care about the people that they're speaking to. Obviously that's apparent throughout the documentary. But the people buying into it don't have the media literacy.

or like the critical thinking to be able to see that for what it is. And that's what's really, really, really scary here. And I think it holds a mirror up to all of us as well about this wider culture.

And these algorithms that are being called and I'm not saying we're responsible for the algorithms, we're not. I think we do need to fix our feeds. Yeah. Shout out to Chanel Gondos. Hashtag fix our feeds. But R the way we are so um enthralled by rage bait culture says a lot as well because what it proved is that this constant need for everyone's hot takes and to have a hook at the beginning of every video has created Essentially the manosphere is like a final boss.

um form of the digital age and an economy. They openly say that in the documentary throughout it, these creators say, Oh, well, I don't believe that or Well that's not what I meant, but I'm just doing it for clout. I'm doing it for clout. Everything was for clout. Yeah. I also want to shout out the Man Cave, they're Australia's leading preventative mental health charity for boys and young men.

And they sort of called out the doco a bit. They said, you know, by focusing on the influences, they have platformed the rage bait content, which further makes society more hostile and continues to widen the divide between boys in the manosphere and the world around them. So potentially making the situation worse. And I do agree, but I also think there was something valuable in showing how much this is hiding in plain sight.

Something else that really stood out to me was that girl on the show that was called a dishwasher, right? So she's commented afterwards about some of the backlash obviously the show has created and she said, but we're on Netflix and you're not. And I think this is a really big part of the debate as well is like has this documentary inadvertently or advertently given airtime and validated this movement into the mainstream.

Again, as I've saying throughout this, I don't want to give this more airtime than it needs, but at the same time It is in the mainstream. It really is. And like a lot of these people have some of them have over a million followers and they're making Millions of dollars. We have to discuss it. We have to put a spotlight on it. And knowledge is power. Before I could only really see the effects of it, and I don't think I fully

Obviously because it doesn't show up and the the stuff that I'm considering how it works. And now I do. Yeah. To an extent. Again, I think they could have done fifteen other documentaries on it, and I hope he does.

Iran's women's football team has largely departed Australia. What danger does that put the women in? This is such a frightening story. And one we're about to get into, but I think we should also just give a quick update on Iran in general because it has been just over two weeks now since the US. launched their military campaign. Yeah, so there's been a lot going on, obviously. It's very fast moving, but I'm just gonna give some top lines from the past couple of days.

So Israel says its military is still focused on thousands of potential targets inside Iran and has plans for at least three more weeks of war. Flights were briefly suspended at Dubai Airport after a drone related incident sparked a fire near a fuel tank. Now authorities say that some flights have now resumed.

Donald Trump has warned NATO could face a very bad future if allies don't keep the Strait of Humuz open, saying he has asked several countries to send warships as oil prices surge during the Iran war. Japan, Australia, Germany and Italy and Greece declined military roles. The World Health Organization says it's released$2 million in emergency funding to support health responses in Lebanon, Iraq, and Syria as the Middle East crisis escalates. Oh, it's just awesome that the US is um

Threatening NATO once again. Like I don't think like the gravity of that is hard to comprehend if NATO was to fall apart over this. I do want to focus on the Iranian women's football team as well today, though, because That is happening right now here in Australia. And we spoke about this last week. So to recap, it was the Iranian women's football team. They didn't sing their national anthem and that was in their opening Asia Cup game here in Queensland.

So when you guys last spoke about this, it wasn't clear how many players might seek asylum. At the time, Australia had granted asylum to seven members of the traveling group, including one support staff. Now, since then, five members have decided to return home and the latest was the captain of the team.

They've left Australia and she has withdrawn her asylum claim. So she was the fifth member of the squad to change her mind after initially accepting an offer to stay in the country. It's been spoken about a lot in the media. Essentially, it's understood that a lot of those players received threats if they were to stay. And we spoke about this uh when we first. A few weeks ago when we first spoke about Iran, Iran has capital punishment. And they also you know, they

threaten close family members and friends and people that are related to you if they are coming after you. And um It's uh the whole situation in Iran right now is essentially, you know, they have removed uh the old supreme leader. who was elderly and had cancer. and replaced him with his son who was even more devout and even more extreme and that regime has only intensified. Now it leaves just two of the original seventeen members who are sought asylum in Australia.

But I wanted to play out what um an Iranian Australian advocate told Triple J Hack this week because it points to those exact points that you were just speaking about. Some of the players have been shown videos of their parents. Under the stress. What do you think's gonna happen to these players when they get back to Iran? They could face the death penalty. They could go back and they could face

horrible prosecutions, if not them, their family members. The other option is that the regime turns this into a opportunity for propaganda. I I worry that we will all forget about these girls like so many other girls in Iran. We show a lot of hypocrisy towards migration within our government. And I say this because there are so many Iranians who are stuck in Turkey, who are are trying to get away from this dictatorship that's been condemned by the Australian government so much.

And yet time and time again we are closing our borders towards them. You know, using photo opportunities with these girls to Paint a different picture.

of what we are doing on a daily basis to thousands of people. What I find really interesting in that is that they're talking about how it could be used as propaganda. And I think we're already starting to see that in Iranian state media, right? Yes. So on the return and the language that we've seen Iran welcoming back the players. It's really shifted. So they've framed the captain's return as a patriotic act and they've said that she was returning to the embrace of the homeland. I mean it's it's

It's pretty impossible to believe that that is the case. Um, but it's a pretty interesting change of tact. Yeah, and Australia's immigration minister Tony Burke sh did say that the players were given opportunities to discuss their options after deciding to withdraw their asylum claims. Um, but interestingly, one member of the team told protesters in Malaysia, these were where the players were before they were returning home Iranian officials had promised them rewards on their return.

And in a video translated by members of the Iranian diaspora, the players say that the women were told they would receive benefits and be welcomed back in her own words like princesses or queens. It's really tough'cause like we wanna be able to say, We can follow this story but one And we can for the women here, but once they return home it's gonna be pretty impossible to do that. It will be really hard to follow that. Can we also talk about the White House releasing videos that turned war?

actual war into like a Call of Duty video game. Yeah. So last Wednesday the White House posted a video showing a real US military strikes on Iranian targets, but The video that they posted, it was edited in a way that didn't look like a government briefing or a government official kind of uh peat of piece of content. It looked more like a call of duty highlight reel, like the video game. I mean like we have seen things like this from the White House.

in the past. I think a good example is when um they released footage of Ice Agents to the Pokemon Go theme song. I do think creating it as a um like Call of Duty style game is really I'm not gonna say clever, but I can see in a way why they've done it because those games are so popular. I remember my mum used to hate it because of this idea that it desensitized you to violence. And it does. And I think it also

Makes you feel like it's okay, those games, because you can compartmentalize it, it's not real life. But I think that's what they're doing. They're trying to blur the lines so that. we are not seeing it for what it is, which is real life. But being able to compartmentalize and desensitize so that we can all stomach this. A hundred percent. And this example was viewed by millions of people online. So it's not just a few people seeing this.

Hutt it's people all around the world and the way that it was cut That it even included some visual cues that you'd expect from video games, like a kill streak. So it's showing. a kill streak that are designed to signal achievement and reward. So it is doing exactly that. It's changing the way that governments communicate about war.

It's changing the languaging of military messaging that's it's borrowing from video games and even the language that we're hearing now about war more in general, we had Epic Fury the other week. Oh yeah, Operation Epic Fury. Yeah, it's gamifying it entirely. Yeah, it's gamifying it. But I wanna end on this uh section that that Daniel Baldino wrote. Um he's from the University of Notre Dame. He wrote this in a piece in the conversation.

War is not experienced as a highlight reel. It is experienced as loss, uncertainty, grief, and irreversible destruction. Restoring that understanding is not a media literacy problem, it's a moral one. Yeah. I mean I'm not sure we're gonna see much um chain from the White House given no in their current state, but agreed.

Brittany Spears' DUI arrest has sparked concerns over her well being. So this was just over a week ago, but Britney Spears was back in the headlines after being arrested at around three AM for driving under the influence in California. Her team has since made a statement. She's also deleted Instagram now. Crazy, but I read that like at the sheriff's office when they were writing her up, listed her occupation as just celebrity. Yeah. I was like

It's a bit of an understatement to be honest. And look, I don't know about you, but I for a while now have been seeing posts about Brittany. We all have, like obviously, people laugh about the dancing videos and the outfits. And the very, very long captions. Actually there was one time when people were making fun of her her dancing videos and she just posted, Kiss my ass, eat shit and step on Legos.

Step on Legos is harsh harsh. That's where I draw the line. That's crazy. But there are also posts especially recently that have been way more overtly worrying. I think it was in January this year, she made a post saying that she can't perform in the US ever again uh for quote, extremely sensitive reasons. And I think when looking into the recent years of Britney and also with this DUI.

I I think for me it's prompted a slightly uncomfortable question around how has the Free Brittany movement aged? And I know that's insane to ask because I'm so incredibly supportive of the movement. I still am. I think it's unbelievable that millions of fans rallied behind her with the belief that she deserved, of course, freedom over her finances, her career.

aspects of her life that were you know, she didn't have control of for over a decade. People organized protests outside of courthouses. The the obviously the documentary was huge that exposed the system that was built around her. She spoke herself about how trapped she felt. It was heartbreaking.

And I think whenever we talk about Britney, we have to acknowledge the life that she's lived because it's impossible for us to comprehend more than I think any other celebrity that I can think of. Like I think Britney Spears. I think I feel passionate about this because I think she is my Roman Empire. I think of her often. Yeah. Um and she became arguably the most famous person in the world at like sixteen years old. So I remember in the early 2000s reading that.

She was the most searched phrase on Google. Not the most searched celebrity, the mo most searched phrase overall. And I think this obsession with her really endures.

And I think it would be really scary to be that level of known. I mean, it was only a few weeks ago that she was granted a restraining order over a fifty one year old guy who's been harassing her since twenty and thirteen. Yeah, wow. And I think When we document and we look back on the timeline of her public struggles, and I think everyone knows that about Britney, like the image that comes to mind is her in two thousand and seven, shaving her head, uh, in the salon as Paparazzi surrounded her.

And she actually spoke about that in her memoir, The Woman and Me, and she said, I'd been looked up and down, had people telling me what they thought about my body since I was a teenager. My long hair was a big part of what people liked. I knew that. I knew that a lot of guys thought my long hair was hot. Shaving my head was a way of saying, fuck you, you want me to be pretty for you, fuck you.

I think now, thanks to things like the Free Brittany movement, we also know that that was because she was at a breaking point From being hounded by paparazzi, treated terribly by her family, being treated terribly by the media, dealing with the grief of losing her aunt in the midst of a messy divorce, in the midst of a custody d battle, like that would be anyone's breaking point.

And being famous at the same time. Yeah, exactly. The media just involvement and already being what so many years into that, after that she was hospitalized, she was placed under conservatorship that was led by her dad, as we know, that lasted thirteen years until the Free Brittany movement. What I wanna talk about is since that and since the amount of media attention that got, the next few years haven't exactly unfolded in the way that many people I guess imagined.

Though she still had some pretty major life moments and public struggles. I know she got married in two thousand twenty two that ended in just under a year. She had a devastating miscarriage after announcing a pregnancy in that same year. And she frequently on Instagram would indicate about how that permanently altered her. Uh she hasn't released a full album since 2016. She hasn't performed since 2018.

Most of the updates we have about her life come through Instagram posts that are, you know, heartfelt but also chaotic. And I I mean it's not even like she needs to be pumping out content at all. I I know again, major news. We didn't even get to speak about this on the podcast, but it was just last month that she announced that she's also sold her entire music catalogue for two hundred million to primary wave. Um

And and now this latest incident with the DUI and and I know that just hours before that happened, she posted a another dancing video. She's in lingerie, she has emojis over her nipples, but she captioned it. Song representing fragility. Be careful, my friends, when dealing with the Queen of Hearts. So what have we heard from her team?

So her team in a statement said this was an unfortunate incident that is completely inexcusable. Brittany is going to be taking the right steps and comply with the law and it's hopefully and hopefully this could be the first step in a long overdue change that needs to occur in Britney's life.

Hopefully she can get the help and support that she needs during this difficult time. Her boys are gonna be spending time with her. Her loved ones are gonna come up with an overdue needed plan to set her up for success for well being. I think One of the more notable details in that for me was the mention of her sons, Preston and Jaden. And I think she's spoken so much about them and how difficult the custody battle was for her.

Yeah. They're also now like nineteen and twenty years old. So they're older than she was when she became famous. Which is well. Which is so wild to think about. Yeah. And I know that in that same post where she was talking about how she can't perform in the US anymore, she then spoke about how her dream is to perform in the UK or in Australia with her son, Jaden, sitting on a stool, a red rose in her hair.

singing together and I just I really it's such a peaceful image and I really, I really want that for her. But yeah, I think the reason I bring this up is because I think since that movement there have been signs of, you know, Brittany still needing more help and support. Yeah. And I think maybe to an extent we turn a bit of a blind eye to it because

Maybe I don't know, maybe it's like this like level of guilt that we maybe feel. It's not even that. I think it's just more we have to have this understanding. A that it is and it is a bit of a discomfort to know but like freedom doesn't automatically all mean peace straight away. And it doesn't mean that everything's better now. No It really doesn't. Like it's still all of that trauma experience. Yeah.

To be able to navigate that needs so much support. And I think it's sad to see that she maybe hasn't been able to get that. Yeah. Which was would have always been needed.

Okay, we are now at the QA for this week. Thank you so much to everyone who has sent a message on big small talk underscore pod. I have a message here from Lola that says, so are Kyle and Jackie O coming back on air? I think there's been so much talk about this. in the last week or so. One of the biggest responses to a segment last week about this too. They are still off air. Kyle remains suspended. I think what's interesting though in development that we saw was If they were to come back.

KISS of M have effectively now been banned from airing strong sexual content. For at least five years on that show. Which is massive for the show if it does come back because a lot of their content. was based on kind of the Rage Bay I don't know how intent. It would impact their show massively. No. And and so essentially the media watchdog, Akma

crackdown on ARN as a h like as a whole for the offensive honor segments. And pretty much said if the show was to remedy, would have to have these much, much stricter boundaries. I I think what's also Interesting to me. is if they don't come back, I still don't think that'll be the end of Kyle and Jackie O. Um, Craig Reese, who we spoke about.

last week, um, had a frightening post that I saw where he pretty much did the maths. He crunched some numbers on what would happen if they were to create a podcast instead and move to a subscription model and say, you know, a hundred thousand followers, whatever it is.

twelve dollars something a month from their listeners, which th their loyal listeners would pay. Yes. Absolutely. Um they would be making like a million dollars a month and that's not including all the added other elements of maybe they could potentially add. I honest I honest I think it would be crazy for ARN to take them back. I don't know what other radio networks would take that on. I yeah, I almost bet it's gonna be a podcast route. Mm frightening. Yeah. Yep.

Thank you so much for listening again this week. If you wanted to tap the bell, follow, follow us on Instagram big small talk underscore pod by a ticket to dome fest. All of that would really We'll see you next Tuesday.