Jackie O, Daddy Issues & Timothee Chalamet

Production.

I'm Hannah. And I'm Zara. And this is Big Small Talk. This is the podcast where we try to cover the entirety of the news cycle, from the serious to the frivolous, all in one place. Because loving pop culture doesn't mean you don't understand politics. Today we're gonna be talking about Kyle and Jackie O, Iran's new supreme leader.

Timothy Charlemagne, the Clinton's deposition on the Epstein Files, and Sophia Franklin's Tell All Book. But before we begin today's episode, we would like to start by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which we're recording today, the Gadigal people, and pay our respect to Elders past and present. Before we get into the actual news, Hannah, you have a very big personal headline this week. Is it where I'm going today?

Yeah, that you're flying. I was actually gonna talk about the lovely high school girls that I met l yesterday that listened to the pod. Cause I thought that was a big headline for me yesterday too. That's so sweet. It was so sweet. I had I gave two talks at a girls' high school in Brisbane yesterday morning. And the first session was year seven to twelve with parents. And then the second session was just

Like all of grades 10 to 12. And I was obviously a bit nervous because sometimes I feel like a very millennial person pretending to be a Gen Z, even though I'm a Gen Z. And so I was wondering if none of them would know me. And actually heaps of the mums knew me, which was awesome. But when I did the second session, I had some of the like

Like 15-year-old girls come up and say, Oh, by the way, I've listened to every single episode of Big Small Talk. Wow. And I was like, and how are you handling Iran right now? And they were like, I just appreciate you both so much. And I was like, We've got them. It's so nice. That is so nice. It was so

Like again, I I made a reel about this on my personal Instagram yesterday, but I was I left feeling like I I wasn't there to empower them. In fact I walked away thinking they'd empowered me, these high school girls. They were like I had Sarah, I kid you not, at the first session, this tiny girl come up to me afterwards and I said she said

Have you always felt this opinionated? Because I do too. And I'm gonna write a letter to the Prime Minister about it. I already have. And I said, How old are you? And she said, I'm 10. And when she hits AT not give her a job, she won't mean the producer's show. It was a K to twelve schools.

And she'd come across from like grade five or six specially to watch the talk because she's I think clearly a quite a mature ten year old. And so they'd they'd gone, come on, you can come over to this session. And so she come and she was just like, I'd like to write a letter to the Prime Minister about it. And she's and she literally said to me, Sarah Do you find that your posts go better when anger is the the the first emotion? And I said, Excuse me?

Fucking yeah. Actually, sorry swearing. I didn't say it took everything not to say that right back to it. I literally had this big chat to her about responsibility. responding and emotion, all these things, and you know, what is at the forefront of the media and what works and what doesn't. And she nodded and went, Okay, can I get Then she left. The best thing ever. And I just wanna say to people listening, young people are fine. They are so good.

Wow. Ca can I actually on that note. So my mum works at an all-boys school. Oh, I love this story, not what you're saying. And she's befriended this like I think it's like a year seven or year eight boy that just like I think he always gets in trouble and so he always needs to come to the office. And mum like works in the office. She's an admin. She was a teacher, now she's an admin there.

And this boy loves podcasts and was chatting to Mum while waiting for something in the office. And Mom was asking him what podcasts uh he listens to, and he said Small dog. But he didn't know. And he had no idea. And my mum goes, You know I'm Sarah's mum. And he goes,

What? And then Mom had to show him photos, this like small boy. And you know what's so funny? Mom was like, What do you think of the show? And he goes, Yes, no, I like the hosts. They keep saying that they're left, but I'd say they're centrist. I was like sorry. But can I just say?

I don't think that speaks to us. I think that speaks to the speed. I think that's a positive about that's some healthy masculinity right there. Because I also think the things that we say aren't radical extreme like we're positioned as being. I think it is very normal to be having in a young generation. Especially in a in a man. I if you are from a boys school, a girls school, a co-ed school, bring us in. We would love. Let me

Let me add it. Let me add it. I would love to speak to these kids. I just thought it was so energizing. That is so freaking cool. Okay, I have another. Yeah, please. Personal headline and then I want you to talk about Oxford because I don't think we should be brushing over that. It's kind of ginormous. So

I was on my way into work. I told Hannah I'd be here in thirty minutes, but then I was s answering stories on the Instagram story and It was fifty five. It was like it took so long and I forget how long it takes to put stories up, but one of those. That sounds really odd. A moment of silence for what Sarah's been through to Sponnie while she uploaded Instagram stories on her walk here. One of the stories I put up was asking about merch'cause people were messaging and asked about merch.

This is something we've been talking about for so long. Oh Sarah's absolute pioneer in the merch space. But like we're in the car, I've never I have ideas. Whenever we're in the car, Sarah's like, just pause for a second. What about a compact mirror? Okay. So I had this thing that if we ever do merch, I would want it to be functional accessories. Like merch but a little bit more unusual. Feels less wasteful too if it's like

Yeah, I think it's a lot of it's like. I use it, it's in my bag, it's on my bag, like it's an accessory that is constant, you know. And originally the first idea was an emotional support water bottle. Yeah. Because I feel like like given the news cycle, we all need that now more than ever. But then I thought a compact mirror that says I'm an intellectual. And then I thought You're actually IP owning all of this as we say it, right? And then I thought book boxes and then I thought bookmarks.

It's an interesting debate there, right? Because you also want to be in a safer price range. And if we did a water bottle, we want it to be a really good This is kind of a secondary investment.

Compact mirror or a key ring, a keychain. A key ring, useful key like charms of it. I think there was a few things. Gibbets. That's kind of I think patented already. Like we can't enter the croc space. Then I'd have the thought that if there's anyone, like there are so many cool small businesses girly pops if you're listening

And you would like to collab on something, I actually think that would be a way cooler way of doing it. This is Sarah openly taking we're openly taking requests and con and contacts right now, please. We're opening the floor. I'm not a spotlight girly. You are. You craft craft woman. I've been crafting a bit recently. I've been doing quite a bit of cross. Producer Helen's sitting out there nodding in such a

profuse way. Ever since that Valentine's Day really set me off on something. I've made artwork for the house. Just to be clear, if you're not sure of the Valentine's Day law, get onto our Instagram at big small talk underscore pod. When we were heading back from Melbourne on Valentine's Day morning.

I just took ten photos of Sarah making her boyfriend Harry, the muffin, you may know him as. She made him a journal and she bought all these different types of fancy paper and she didn't have any scissors or glue. And obviously it's hard to buy those things at an airport. But she made it happen on the flight. Thank God I was seated away from her. Actually, a lot of people were like, What the fuck were you was the journal?

I'll answer that. I'll answer that. It was an ideas book because he You went up with 57 different ideas in a week, but they're also all really good, but he can never keep track of them. And so I thought this is a productive way that when I'm writing in my journal at night, he can write in his ideas book. Did he like the

ideas. Fucking loved it. Oh, that's really good, Sarah. Okay, tell me about Oxford quickly. It's literally the longest personal headlines in a year. Since we came to Lisbon, I'm gonna cut this down. It's like we got into the studio and went, God, what if we turned it a 20-minute segment at the start where we just riffed about everything that's ever happened to us.

Um I'm going to the UK literally straight after this record. Yeah. I didn't bring my bag in, which obviously panicked meatball Tony. He was like, I'm so stressed about you and airports, but I'm ready to go. I've actually got to unpack and pack another bag. I'm upset with the suitcase I've packed. Um some kind of doing a day in the life right now. But I am going to the UK this afternoon to do a debate at Oxford on Thursday night. And don't worry, I'm gonna post about it.

Well yeah. Take a moment. That is so not normal. No, it's not normal. I haven't taken a moment because I haven't prepared what I'm gonna say at all. I'm planning to jump on the plane this afternoon. You freak me out. I am so avoidant in moments like this. I go straight to type B energy. I have not prepared a single word. I bought a book to read that I hope will help inform my perspective. Haven't read a page.

Don't plan to actually. I think I'm just gonna dehal it's only an eight minute talk that I have to give. So anyway. You're flying to the UK for eight minutes. No, it's also gonna be nice. I'm gonna try and do a couple of different media appearances while I'm there. I have sent an email to Piers Morgan's show. I know everyone's got gas.

Right. They emailed me back. They emailed me back and said, Absolutely, come on the show. Just remind us a few days before. So I've sent the reminder. I'm now waiting. I'm not sure. I think it's important to go on those shows and engage and actually offer a different perspective. So I'm hoping to have the opportunity. Um, but I will say, keep this as our secret.

your listeners because I'm not sure if I'm going to get it, but I am willing to share with you that I might get it because I did get an email back saying yes. You're also doing a day in the life because it's a big day for you. So we'll put that on our socials. Thanks.

Kyle and Jackie O are over. Hell hath frozen over. You Shakespearean knew. That was beautiful. This was huge, huge news this week, especially for anyone that's ever worked in radio or in and around radio. So all the people I'm surrounded by, but not me personally. So you're deeply affected. It was one of those things that when the news broke I was like, mm, is this just crazy

to have like a subsect of people that in this industry that this is just like the biggest shakeup ever. But no, I think the story is massive. Yeah. Do I will say at the top here, I I think having worked in radio I do feel for the staffers right now. I feel for the people that work at that company. I think there would be a lot of uncertainty of what's gonna happen to jobs. And I think anyone that works in media knows that that is

genuinely terrifying ninety-nine percent of the time. There are so many good people working in media and not enough jobs. And I think anyone in this industry as well, like that was what was keeping things afloat in lots of ways. So I do go into the story with like acknowledging that that is that's a serious shakeup for lots of people. Um but for for if anyone needs the context, for over the for over two decades now, Kyle and Jackie O were Australia's most dominant and highest paid radio program.

I think they their peak was 1.7 million daily listeners. Wow, that's massive. That is massive. They're based in Sydney and they very famously signed a 200 million Ten year contract from two thousand and twenty-three, which was the largest contract in Australia's radio history. That deal began last year and it was set to run until the end of Two thousand and thirty four. Way after the Brisbane Olympics, just for context. Um thank you. Um that took a long time. Also Are you done?

Enjoying myself today, isn't that lovely? The two have been incredibly successful. Uh, but part of that success I would say is very much built on the fact that they are deeply controversial. Also, we need to talk about the fact that they have been fined countless times by ACMA, but not only that. Regulator, that's the regulator. Yeah, regulator. Not only that though, news dot com has also reported that Kyle gets fines

every sick day he takes once he's reached past ten sick days within a year. And he gets fined$28,000 a day. Which means reportedly last year he got smacked with a$560 thousand dollars worth of sick day fines. That's a lot of sick days. That's yeah. Divr. Yeah. That was the word diva but said with an accent. Diver also, sorry, but that is diabolical considering like that is what, five times more than the average Australian wage?

They have also had a pretty rough year and I think that's for quite a few reasons. One is obviously they tried to make the move to Melbourne and that failed. There's so many discussion and like think pieces about why Kyle and Jackie O didn't work in Melbourne. Um one of my favorites was just that Melbourne is more culturally superior. is I think a more progressive state than New South Wales on the whole. Yeah. Yeah. And they're a lot kind of less

I think in Sydney there are a lot of pockets in different suburbs that have just different cultural and political views on the whole. Like we're very pocketed and kind of clicky in that way too. Yeah. So even if we have a z very zippy energy here. We do. And also I think when

They are culturally part of Sydney, where they've been here for so long, operating for so long that it's kind of very normalized and desensitized to their presence and their superiority on in the market. Do you know who put that really well? Um, someone who's been on most interviews I've seen about this is Craig Bruce. Oh, Craig is like your mentor. Craig is my mentor. Craig is very close. Craig is an a incredible man in radio and podcasting. So

Craig used to be head of content. He's kind of like a big dog in the radio scene. Now in podcasting as well. I've worked closely with Craig since about twenty or 22. But he is really interesting because he's actually the one that gave Kyle and Jackie go their big break.

Scary. He found Kyle and Jackie. He also was instrumental in Hamish Nandi and all sorts of things, but he's been really interesting, his commentary on he has a podcast called Game Changers Radio and it's all about like the Melbourne wars in the industry.

And something that I saw him say, and this was actually in The Guardian, he said, imagine the Kyle and Jackie O show is a party. This party was filled with people who are all in the same wavelength. The shots are happening, the inhibitions are down, the conversation is loose. And then the doors open, new crowd walks in and it's a bunch of sober people. That's what happened in Melbourne. That's a great way to put it because I I

I actually I hadn't read that, so I'm glad to be on the same kind of page there. But it is just like you've got this new influx of people that have fresh eyes about it and aren't culturally attuned to like their rhetoric. No of them know what they're about and are just kind of have a distaste.

Yeah. Right. And I'm like, what the fuck is this? I think it's kind of expected to be like, oh they'll you know, Melbourne will just take to them'cause they're inflammatory and they're big in Sydney. Actually, Melbourne doesn't want to be like Sydney. But there is also just like

You know, it it's laid. It's those three things. Melbourne, more culturally progressive, doesn't want Sydney things, and three, is it normalized, desensitized, you know, to the Jackio effect. There was a lot of desensitization and normalization here in Sydney. The other thing you'd have to talk about is the witches. The witch's campaign. I'm so glad you bring this up. Hell. So

The Mad Fucking Witches um is a group uh that and I'm not calling them that, that's like what they've called themselves. They have been campaigning against Kyle for years and they have a hashtag called VileKyle. And it's pretty insane what they've been able to pull off. They put ARN in what I can only describe as like an impossible spot. So essentially, the witches have a database of all the advertisers currently supporting Kyle and Jackie O's radio program nationally. Mm-hmm.

And they are personally reaching out to those companies and also to their huge audience and calling on them to pull those advertisements or for people to boycott the companies that are choosing to advertise with them. The impact has been massive. I really think it speaks to the fact that we can influence and advocate against anything. All you need to do is follow the money.

Also, when you're just considering the fact that this duo was on a record-breaking 10-year deal that was that big and they're struggling for advertisers, I want to also take a beat because I think we have to sort of remind ourselves of a few of the more controversial moments of Kyla Jackie O. I think a lot of people jump straight to two thousand and nine.

Uh, that was when they were with Today FM still, and their show was taken off air after a mother rang in wanting to work things out with her 14-year-old daughter and ask if she had experimented with sex and drugs. Kyle and Jackie O strapped this teenager to a lie detector test. It ended with the girl eventually breaking down crying, saying that she was raped when she was twelve. And Kyle Sanderland's response. Right. And that's the only experience you've had?

Evil. The show has breached broadcasting codes twelve times in the last year alone. It's described the content as vulgar, sexually explicit, and deeply offensive. I think a recent b example of this was a a urination game where they Played audio of female staff members. Urinating um and then played it as a guessing game. on air, uh accompanied with very graphic commentary on anatomy and their anatomy.

They also referred to the 2021 Paralympics as the Special Olympics, calling it horrific and mocking a vision impaired high jumper for landing on his back. Kyle was suspended after suggesting actress Magda Sabansky should go to a concentration camp to lose weight. Kyle labelled a journalist a fat slag in twenty eleven after she wrote a critical article about his show's ratings. Uh, they promised a woman they would bring her niece to Australia.

only to turn it into a game whereas if she failed to choose the right door, her niece would instead be sent home. They gamified a segment where a woman was needing money for disability renovations. Like it goes on and on and on and put this over twenty seven years. Also, there are so many. Like I've I reckon in the last year we've seen multiple iterations of like

horrendous sex comments made from Sandalans, just like the average day. It's really interesting. I was watching uh a clip from the Cur a Current Affair. This was an older current affair clip, interviewing Jackie O, right? When asked about what about compromising your morals on this show? She kind of spoke to the fact that she was like, there was a machine around us and the audience wanted more. And so we gave more and more and more and we sort of lost our way because it was so normalized to us.

Which I think is a really interesting conversation because it reminded me of Tyra Branks. It was very much that like, well, the audience wanted it, so we gave it. But I found it really interesting that she was able to say, it got away from us, but then also say We went out and did more horrific stuff for the next couple of years.

Yeah. Yeah, it is it is very much that. I I find one of the most interesting discussions and we're gonna get more into what's happened in the last couple of weeks, but the interesting kind of debate here is about

Jackie O as victim or perpetrator. Yeah. Yeah. And that is like the theme inherently feminist female discussion, like to go back and forth right now, which is really interesting to watch play out. I'll get into what actually the straw that broke the camel's back, what's actually happened. So it all was over a pretty explosive on air moment that was on February twentieth.

When Kyle lashed out at Jackie, uh, causing her to not return to the show afterwards and then taking more than a week off following the incident. It was kind of about her t doing a segment about horoscopes. I'm gonna play the grab. I don't mean to be rude, but As I said, it's fascinating. But I don't think it should be at the detriment of everything else on the show, uh this relentless research into the Well I only just did it then.

I was literally just doing it then. Well, it's affecting other things. Like y your fixation on this has made you just dig it almost unworkable. No, it's not that bad guys. But y you you you might have done that in five minutes, but you're off with the fairies with Tell me where you no no no. Tell me where I've been off with the fairies during the show. I don't have to I'm not have to prove anything. You'll hear yourself.

No, just give me one example. Because that's the reality of what we're dealing with here. Oh that is It's so unfair. I have been in here doing the segment totally fine. You've been you've had your head on that looking into the stars. Well I did because I just told you I was gonna do it. I heard all that. But it's it's too much it's affecting everything else. You you're too fixated on it. What tell me what it affected during the show?

Every segment, every time you've spoken, you're off with the f you don't even know what's going on. I would never say things like that about you. You have too bad. Because I'm not doing that. Yeah, but Cole, you make out like you sit there like you're perfect. No, I'm not sure what I'm saying.

video goes on. And the thing that most people are not capturing, I think, in the discussion of what's happened here is that he ends up saying something to the effect of like, everyone on the office is talking about it, right? And this is one of the core pieces here, right? Where I want to talk about my feelings towards Jackie O separately to what's actually happened in this particular conversation because my initial read was. When I saw this segment, I was

He's having a go at something personally that matters to her. If she's into astrology, like I'm not, I don't care if someone is, that's nice. They want to bring something from their personality into the workspace. Go for it. I know a lot of people care about this stuff. Him having a crack at her publicly is just kind of demeaning a woman, right? Who cares about this because it's a very like fairies thing, superficial thing. It's a very kind of like influencer claim sort of vibe.

But then when she actually goes back to him quite strongly and says, like, give me a tangible example. I would never speak to you like this. And you are not perfect. So let's have a level playing field here where you're blaming me and demeaning me, but that's not from a fair position. Let's talk through a tangible example of this. Great response.

He has no capacity to actually provide evidence. And maybe he has it. It shouldn't have been done in that way. But you can see him unravel so fast and resort to genuine workplace bullying and humiliation tactics. by saying, you're off with the fairies, it's unworkable and everyone's talking about it.

And that is classic behavior of trying to humiliate, embarrass, degrade someone to make them small and feel like they don't even understand what's being said about them in order to kind of remove any fight they could have. I think what's really interesting about this as well is like when this first happened.

Isn't it sad that I my my knee jerk reaction was, I think that's a PR stomp. Same. But everyone did that. The response was just because of their Melbourne failure, they're trying to drive ratings and relevance with this, which they've done before. Like that's nothing new. Yeah. I think it was it was then on Tuesday, so this is March third. Things then escalated again and there was an announcement by ARN Media, which is the company behind Kiss FM, that revealed that Jackie had given notice.

and that she could no longer work with Kyle. and the network said she would cease presenting the show and the programme itself would be taken off air effective immediately. Also that Jackie's deal was to be terminated and that Kyle's contract potentially was in breach and at risk of being torn up as well.

But then Jackie potentially was offered an alternative show with the network, apparently. There's a few different things floating around. But then March sixth, on Friday, Jackie issued a statement completely denying the the way this narrative has been told. claiming that she wanted to make it very clear that she did not quit and she did not resign and that she couldn't say much more right now because the situation was being handled through legal channels.

Do I feel for Jackie O? Um no. Neither. I don't. And can I? also add one of the things that has frustrated me most is there are a lot of women coming out and saying Finally Jackie O had enough. No, also if astrology's where you're personally drawing the line on Kyle Sandlands having a personal go at you, fuck off. What I struggle with with this is it's like it's almost like she said, Well, I'm fine with the misogyny.

homophobia and just blatant disrespect, but I'm gonna draw the line at being mean to me. No, it it is that. It's like and again, she has every right to feel personally harmed by that and to leave the studio and to take time off.

But if that is the only if that's a line in the sand morally, I can't quite get around that. I think part of the reason Jackie O and Kyle find so much success as a duo that I don't think it would work with anyone else, right? They wouldn't work by themselves very well, I think. is because they hold a mirror up to like a lot of familiar patterns in society.

of misogynistic, harmful, bigoted man and woman who kind of conforms around him and goes, Oh, Kyle, but never actually takes a stand. Yeah. And I think that we're all familiar with those dynamics. But we all are familiar with this and that's why I think a lot of Australians buy into it because there's

a leisure and an enjoyment, like it normalizes it for them. It it softens it. And I I that's why I have a really particular problem with it as well. Yeah. I also think it's interesting, like given the news that Jackie didn't quit. to like talk about it in a business sense as well. I think the bottom line could be that ARN took an opportunity to find it out with them. Like they had a$30 million drop in revenue in the last month.

in a way this show was becoming a liability. I don't think it's gonna be easy for them. They're gonna have to find new stars immediately. That is a very complicated, that is massive shoes to fill. But I wonder given it's a ten year deal. Was this an out? But then, like I was reading in the Daily Telegraph this morning that sources have said that they they wanna they're talking again and they wanna do radio again.

I'm really interested to see what happens here. I'm interested to see and if they do jump ship and go somewhere else, if the mad fucking witches will just follow. Absolutely.

A new supreme leader, the women's soccer team, and Lebanon becomes the second front of the US-Israeli war. Here's the latest in Iran. Okay, so the US and Israeli war is now into its second week and more than one thousand two hundred Iranian civilians have been killed in the first nine days. I think that was up to about Sunday. This includes at least a hundred and ninety-four children. I also have seen s extensive reports of attacks specifically targeting health infrastructure.

And you likely saw images, footage of the strikes on oil depots in Tehran, which filled the sky with this toxic acid rain and forced so many civilians to take cover. Like it was just horrendous imagery. Uh I also want to report and I think a lot of people would have seen um Carolyn Levitt. Going off again at CNN reporter Caitlin Collins, who questioned the president, the administration's response and kind of suppression of that.

respect to military service members in the US who have been killed in Iran so far. So I know I think it's a seventh US military member has has been killed. We know now. It was interesting, Carolyn Levitt lashed out at Caitlin Collins from CNN again. suggesting that the paper was again like misinformation, terrible source, blah blah blah blah.

Because Caitlin Collins was pointing to the fact like do you not want people to report on these service people being killed because it looks badly on your administration essentially? Can I also just say while we're talking, Christy Noam being fired? The memes on that went wild. Unbelievable for people who don't know who Christy Gnome is. She's the director of Homeland Security. Yeah. Um and she's been really She was the one sort of behind ICE, but also the camps. Yes.

So she's been removed and she's got a replacement. Um it it's you know, it was absolutely fodder for the internet over the weekend, but I think it just speaks to anyone that goes against Donald Trump in any way. I mean, Chris Gnome is terrible. Um, but she didn't kind of do everything he wanted to do or make him look good. So essentially she was out. Now, oil prices have also risen to above 100 bucks a barrel for the first time since 2022. And I also want to start by saying that.

Israel has intensified attacks on Lebanon. Lebanon's health ministry has reported 394 deaths, and that was as of Sunday just gone. And the fighting between Hezbollah and Israel has displaced more than half a million people. So this is kind of this second frontier that. You know, it this is kind of this second frontier that we need to be speaking about as well. It's not just happening in Iran. This is broadly in the region, what things are looking right now as it intensifies. Yeah.

So fifty-six year old Moshtaba Khamenei has been confirmed as Iran's new supreme leader, succeeding his late father, Ayatollah. It's fascinating for the people that toppled the monarchy to have Thank you for saying that. Because it is this immediate discussion at that point of good job, Western intervention. And I think we're going to talk about some of his experience and policies and kind of mindset around how this way affect the retaliation towards the US.

But first I want to say that Moshtaba was selected by Iran's Assembly of Experts. Now under the constitution, this is a body made up of eighty eight members, senior clerics who choose elect the Supreme Leader. Now in the conversation, there was this really incredible overview piece written by a professor of Islamic studies at Charles Sturt University, Mehmet Azal.

And he wrote that the n you know, the successor Kamani is a cleric who has spent most of his career outside of public office but close to power. And he was often seen as a gatekeeper and power broker rather than having like a formal political portfolio. And a couple of key things that I read in this article. Again, I just wanna say

The conversation is producing some of the best work that you can be reading on Iran at the moment. I l so much of the research is coming from there. So I just wanna really shout them out. If you're not across subscribed reading from them, absolutely do. And basically this article speaks to two key features of the new supreme leader's reputation. The first one is his close relationship with Iran's security establishment. They see him as a very much a securist kind of politician.

Which means that the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is kind of going to be a more prominent feature of his under his rule, essentially. And the second is he is a str he exists in strong opposition to Western engagement. So this is an interesting kind of interplay to consider in the state of this war that

You know, in many ways, I've read a lot of expert pieces that suggest he is just as hardline, if not more hardline, than his father. And this is really just like have we replaced an eighty-something year old with a fifty-six year old son, essentially.

And he has been linked to process, he has been linked to suppression, he has wielded large influence. Like, this is not a regime change. Is everything I'm reading, this is not a regime change. This is the direct upholding, this is the succession of that exact regime.

And this is the concern that, you know, Donald Trump has come out this morning. I was watching his press conference and Given quite a few quotes, he said that most of the people they had in mind to take over from the Supreme Leader were dead. So that kind of speaks to the strategy of the US in their intervention. Um, but I also read in the Guardians live blog just from the last couple of hours that Trump said verbatim.

The US is achieving major strides towards completing our military objective, obviously referring to Iran, and he said some people could say they're pretty well complete. And I think this is because of the economic uncertainty that we're seeing. You know, petrol prices are severely increasing. There's lots of worry about what the future could look like economically for around the world. And you could see that really what Trump

is vulnerable to is he does want to take action based on who the economic powers around him, what they're saying, how they're pressuring him, because that is his greatest concern always. Yeah. Not the loss of civilian life. This is a person driven by money and power. He also claimed, you know, falsely, that the US engaged in strikes in Tehran because the US would be attacked in within a week is what he claimed. Again, I just want to assert here.

There has been no evidence to support the claim that Iran was going to imminently strike Israel or the US. He described the war as a short-term excursion. But then he also said that the US would not relent until the enemy is totally and decisively defeated. So that's all just from the Guardians live blog this morning that they were publishing as he was speaking, which is just terrifying because He has changed his position so frequently as to why they're engaging in war, why they're striking.

And that narrative is consistently changing, providing no evidence and consistently kind of just evading any genuine question or accountability. Again, we're not surprised, but we should continue to point it out.

It also just infuriates me when we talk about how obviously you want to give space for the fact that who was the supreme leader who died was a terrible person and Iranians have every right to be relieved by that. But exactly what we've said was a possibility, which is now he just his son is in charge and nothing's actually changed.

The fact that Australia went in swinging about how great this was is like, is there gonna be any backtracking now? No. And this is the concern. So I also wanna say obviously one of the um major things happening throughout the world right now is these travel kind of curves because of the airspace and the danger that's posed.

You know, we know that each year, like I think there's been a lot of reporting that indicates like about half a million Australians m you know, visit Europe during the summer months. And there's obviously all this cautioning happening about when should people should travel, if people should book, like what the next few months looks like. As of Friday.

airspace over Iran, Iraq, Syria, Israel, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain is closed. Again, I'm traveling, you know, to the UK this afternoon and I feel very fortunate and privileged that I booked a flight that was via Singapore with Qantas, you know, but again, that is just It's it's a really anxious time to be moving throughout the world right now. I just want to note that as well. I also want to reflect, take a moment to reflect on last week the comments from the Spanish Prime Minister.

Because I think if you need some positivity in this horrendous environment, I think Pedro Sanchez, who is a Spanish pract PM. He slammed Trump, and I think it's just worth taking a moment to read. So essentially what happened was on Tuesday last week, Trump threatened to end all trade with Spain. Because the Spanish Prime Minister refused to allow the US to o to use two joint bases in the south of Spain to target Iran.

Trump said in response that Spain has been terrible, they're gonna cut off all trade with Spain. We don't want anything to do with Spain, we're direct quote. And then the next day. Prime Minister Sanchez responded with the following He said the country would not be complicit in something that is bad for the world and that is also contrary to our values and interests.

Simply out of fear of reprisals from someone. He also said you can't respond to one illegality with another because that's how humanity's great disasters begin. You can't play Russian roulette with the destiny of millions. Yeah. And it's just he's the only EU leader to come out like overtly against this and to deny the US use of a joint base.

And I briefly want to link this back to two kind of more local stories and how this is affecting Australia too. The first is that the Prime Minister confirmed after defense refused to disclose and there was a lot of kind of back and forth denial and evasion. that Australian Navy personnel were on a US submarine that sank an Iranian warship. Wow. Yeah, it is massive, right? It's massive. It was massive. And so basically

There was a torpedo that hit the ship. You know, there were there was a lot of people that died. And it was off the coast, about forty nautical miles off the coast of Sri Lanka that this happened. I just think it's quite interesting because when our Prime Minister was speaking about this, Anthony Albanese said that the Australian personnel like sat out.

the attack, the offensive. What they sat in the corner of the submarine. This is so strange, right? He said they did not participate in offensive action against Iran. They're on the submarine. You don't go our boys can take the what's out, you know that's also just not

how history remembers it. So my dad was in the navy, he's probably listening to this and he's probably gonna give me feedback on this as well. I saw him on Sunday night and he talked to me extensively about this and about like torpedoes and how they operate and what would be happening on the submarine and like I got all this information.

But it's kind of interesting'cause I also read again, Shout Out the Conversation. They had a piece on naval warfare because one of the things I wanted to know about this specific story is Was that attack lawful, right? Obviously morally completely against the torpedoing of an Iranian warship off the coast of Sri Lanka. Like, but how does this actually work in t terms of like international waters and the legalities around this?

And what she explained in this piece Naval law sits as like under this umbrella of the law of armed conflict. But it's kind of outside of the legalities of the actual war in Iran itself. It doesn't really matter if it's determined that the US's war in Iran is unlawful. Naval warfare sits outside of that altogether. And essentially she has this paragraph that says that yes, it is legal under that law.

Again, I think in terms of the ethics of this, I'm completely against it. But technically lawful. Technically lawful, which is interesting because it also sits outside of and above the UN's law of the sea. So naval warfare kind of operates in its own bubble that isn't affected by whether on the ground this is lawful or not for the US to be doing this. Can we also talk about

the soccer team. Oh, thank you. There's so many components to this story. And I just also No, you've done seven stories in one. I just want to say to people, like, I have so much more to say about what's happening on the ground in Iran, in Lebanon. Like this is a really terrifying time.

But I'm trying to access all these different components that we want to hear about too. And so I want to finish this story with talking about the Iranian women's football team. They didn't sing their national anthem at their opening match against South Korea in the Asia Cup.

That's being played in Australia right now. So if you aren't watching, highly recommend watching all the women's team who are playing. It's incredible. Essentially what happened is that when they refused to sing their national anthem, there were immediate calls. For Australia to protect their safety. Because obviously the main concern is that they will return to Iran and be punished. And again, potentially.

by death um for refusing because Iranian state media also had hosts that came out and said they were wartime wartime traitors for not singing the anthem. They subsequently did sing the the anthem and perform like a salute during their other games. But during that one game that was enough, essentially, to warrant such a huge risk to their protection if they were to return. It's also really laid because part of um Iran's history was when this new government came in.

they changed everything. They changed the flag. They changed the anthem. And so for a lot of Iranians, they don't identify with that anthem as theirs. Yeah. History Channel always comes in. Literally thank you, Sarah. That's like I d I all like I completely that is exactly it. Now, as I was reading this morning, five members of the team have been granted humanitarian visas. by immigration minister Tony Burke. Um, and the police have moved the women to a safe location.

Also, the other team members have been told they are welcome to remain in Australia. So that is a positive end to that act of protest by the team. Um and I'm really glad that that has happened and that they have been guaranteed that. Um but it's just obviously terrifying times.

Timothy Chalamet has picked a fight with the wrong people, and his odds of winning an Oscar are suffering as a consequence. I don't know what's happened. You don't know this? No. Wait, what? This has been like I think every outlet ever is talking about this. I'm pretty sure SNL will definitely do something on this. Like, clearly cheap media's not talking about it'cause I have no idea. Miss the headline of the week, to the point that even I'm surprised how much coverage this is getting.

So two weeks ago, Timothy was obviously a front runner for the Oscars, uh, which is March sixteenth, next Monday. Now It's not looking so good. The reason is people are up in arms because of a Rolling Stone interview that was Timothy and Matthew McConaughey. in in conversation with each other. It was in Austin, Texas at the town hall. It was produced by Variety and CNN. And it was a conversation talking about their craft.

Here is the clip that is going viral. People when I've done it myself to go on a talk show and go, hey, we gotta keep movie theaters alive. You know, we gotta keep this genre alive. And another part of me feels like If people want to see it like Barbie, like Oppenheimer, they're gonna go see it and go out of their way to be loud and proud about it.

And I don't want to be working in ballet or opera or, you know, things where it's like, hey, keep this thing alive even though it's like no one cares about this anymore. All respect to the ballet and opera people out there. Uh I just lost 14 cents in viewership. But um damn, I just took shots for no reason. That's not a shot, I hear what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So I get your live reaction now. Oh obviously the opera and ballet. Like like this is the thing, right? When someone does something like that, he meant it candidly to get a laugh from the audience.

You know what this reminds me of? When I was talking about Anthony Albanese last week with the difficult comments, right? It's sometimes like when you're playing to the immediate audience's laugh in front of you, you forget the context in which this is going to be taken out of. Yeah. And it might be that in the moment, in the present, yeah, it's still offensive.

But you're about to get a ha a billion views on this where people are going to come out of the woodwork to say, like, why was that necessary? Which I completely agree with. People did. London's Royal Ballet and Opera said every night at the Royal Opera House, thousands of people gather for ballet and opera. For the music, for the storytelling, for the sheer magic of live performance. If you'd like to reconsider, Timothy, our doors are open.

The New York ballet dancer Megan Fairchild said, Timmy, I didn't realize you were a world-class dancer and opera singer, or simply chose not to pursue it because acting is more popular. Ballet and opera are not niche hobbies.

People opt out of for fame. Good luck in the Oscar race. Artists supporting artists matter. None of these paths are easy. And there's no need to put ballet or opera down along the way. Can I just add? Because I was thinking more about the context of this being in Austin, Texas, which I think speaks to the crowd and the nature of it, right?

But I think it also kind of feels sour given a lot of his recent coverages, like the seriousness of the method acting and how it's like they take themselves a bit too seriously, but then demean other art forms that are also really serious. There's so much in it. Okay, hold on. Before I get into that though, I also want to play something I saw this morning, Doja Cat.

Oh she responded? Of course. We have a formal statement from Doja Cat. Hey, by the way, um opera is four hundred years old. Ballet is Five hundred years old. Somebody named Tim Timite Chalamit had the nerve big guy, by the way, had the nerve to say on camera that nobody cares about. I'm sure you can walk into an opera theater right now. Seats will be filled out.

And nobody's saying a word as the performance is going because everybody has that much respect for it. There is an etiquette around opera. There's etiquette around ballet and people go there every day to the dance studio. Dancers show up 8 a.m., 6 a.m. whatever the fuck. They show up and they break and they bleed. Every single day. Just because they have respect for it. They love it. They love what they do.

It doesn't matter if the industry is having a tough time at any time, which a lot of industries have a tough time. Your industry has a tough time. My industry has a tough time. Doesn't mean people don't care about it. I will say When I was saying at the top, part of me was somewhat surprised by how much coverage this is getting. I think it's because when I first listened to it, I did think I could somewhere.

see what he was trying to get at in the clunkiest way possible. And I think that is because in history, when we look at history, Ballyon Opera was once our main source. of entertainment. Like they were some of the leading sources of entertainment. And they were s popular to the masses and they were accessible to the masses.

They now don't have that same accessibility. Like an everyday Joe is not gonna go to the ballet and opera and and be across it in the way that we like know the most famous ballerina in the world right now. And I think what he was saying is is comparing that the art of movie making in cinema could slip away from the mainstream. Like cinema could become this like slightly more niche and comparative to where it once used to be. And it's like a a talking about the dying of cinema.

The way he said that, if that and that is if that was what he was trying to say, was really bad. I wanna pause there because I think what you've done a really good job there is actually provide a really fair response. To what he has said, you've kind of expensively looked at him and been like, this is the point he intended, and this is why it's kind of fucked up, right? Yeah. I think that's so fair.

I also think after just hearing it and going, I can immediately pinpoint what the problem is and the context he said it in, which is like again, I think it's so important to come back to. He said it to a crowd live with McConaughey in Texas. But you know what but I the only thing I wanna say, right,'cause what you're when we're talking about the ki the kind of elitism of the opera and the ballet, right? Expensive, blah blah blah.

It's almost like he was trying to play in to a hierarchical kind of middle class joke. Yeah. By saying like, they're a real like they're so expensive and they're not for us sort of thing, and that's it's niche. And it he was kind of trying to other himself from it in a class joke way it feels.

But I actually think there's also an untouched element there where he's playing to a masculine audience because opera and ballet feel like more feminine things. Oh, it feels I think that's why this is getting so much conversation because it does feel layered and and and what I find interesting. is that this is not the first time he said it. I think it's just getting more attention now because it's in the

a really tight Oscar race and he's at in the moment talking extensively about how seriously he wants to be taken. But actually, listen to this. I love movies, I love acting.

I loved going to movies. I was kinda getting scared when I was younger that maybe it was becoming like opera or something, like an outdated art form or something. Uh I was like No woe is me thing but you start working on movies, you start acting and pursuing your thing and like I started to get the sense maybe it was like opera or ballet or something. Like this is s they're from two examples. That's the Graham Norton show and that's uh

a press conference QA before his movie The King when that came out. Thank you to that TikToker who put together that compilation. Thank you so much for the investigative journalists. Thank you. But I also think a big part of this conversation, he is very much across the ballet and what's involved in the ballet because

The women in his family are all ballerinas. His grandmother, his mum, and his sister were all in the New York City ballet. Which is huge. That is so hard. Like they are professional ballet. So I do think there is something Kind of fucking crazy about all the uh like examples you've chosen to give, you've chosen to shit on your own mom and sister and grandma's profession. Why?

really interesting. There's something a little bit like I juff maybe he feels like he knows it so well that he's able to speak to it because of his family, but it does feel weird to go after their profession. Also

I do have to think of the context. And this went really under the radar because it happened sort of as we were coming back from the break and everything was so Hectic in the news cycle, but there was an interview with Timothy Chalamet where he spoke extensively um about his concern about child-free women.

I don't did you see this? No. Yes, so pretty much he he he spoke about how he didn't understand uh why women wouldn't all want to give birth because it's the most miraculous thing and it's like devastating to him. Women all need to have children, ASAP.

fascinating. Also, I do, and I know people have pointed this out, but there is obviously an irony about him going on an Oscar campaign about wanting to be one of the great Shitting on ballet and opera b for being dying art forms while promoting his movie about ping pong. I just sorry. You know what you know what I think this feels like to me? Maybe it's the wrong read. But I think that I've seen him as the good guy.

For a long time. Like he's like and to me he's like that tiny, sweet, innocent boy that I watched and like he was in Interstellar, he was in all these movies that I watched like ten years ago and I've been like Timmy, you know. I miss when he was French. And I think I think

That's very funny. He's still friends. I like his like relationship with Kylie. Like I think he seems like such a good boy. Like you wanna squish him, right? This is the Jenna the Kardashian cut. But can I also say why are women always responsible for a man's behaviour? Like what the fuck is that comment, actually? The assumption and the direct thread that a man's downfall and horrible statements and behavior are

must be tied to his current female partner is so fucked up. But it's also just the the switch up, everyone loved them two seconds ago. Yes, but what what I'm saying is like I think the thing for Timothy Chalamet right now is

I actually really admired his speech about wanting to be one of the greats because I thought it was such a beautiful thing to be openly aspirational and vulnerable by saying something like that. And in the aftermath of that, there's just been this series of comments that almost says, you've tried to adopt.

This kind of masculine ideal that you think you need to be. And that's actually one of the reasons that will prevent you. But also he created a fan base and was skyrocketed into being an A-less actor because of films like Ladybird and Little Women and the fact that he was the ultimate softboy, like loved by women set like that's why I think some of these uh some of this marketing recently in comments

Seems weird in this context because we're like, Timothy, where's your extra E? Like that's really f that's nobody loves that, but it's not. No, I know that's funny though though. It is. It's like, wait, what?

Bill and Hillary Clinton have publicly testified in closed-door separate Epstein depositions. Okay. Love seeing some of the clips from this will say. Sometimes I forget and then I'm very quickly reminded when I see something, I go, Hillary was a lawyer. Yeah. Oh yeah. She's good. Yeah, she's um she's a top performer under questioning. Yeah. So these sessions were from late February, as we said on the pod a few weeks ago that they were coming up to towards the end of the month.

And they were filmed but only released to the public in the days after. So I think March second and third was kind of when we saw them. Now CBS News reported that Bill Clinton's testimony runs through about four hours and thirty-three minutes, Hillary's four hours and thirty-five. They were pretty bang on with the same length. The recordings show both Hillary and Bill.

being kind of probed by members of Congress from both major parties. And during the depositions, they really looked at specific questions of their past connection to Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell. I just want to give a shout out at the top here. Before we get into the details of these depositions, I want to remind people that they can listen to our big talk on Monica Lewinsky.

Because I think that also lays the foundations for Bill Clinton's presidency and the spectrum of accusations he faced. from women saying he sexually harassed them to sexually assaulted them, and that that happened throughout the span of his career, and that Hillary stood by him throughout the Monica Lewinsky kind of saga. I'm gonna call it a saga, it's much more than that. Um, but I think what we're seeing in these depositions is very reflective of their marriage, in terms of a woman who

has been compliant and tolerated a man's alleged poor behavior, but also has been held responsible, arguably more so than him. Where I don't have any defense for Hillary Clinton, but I also find it ironic to see her face.

the questioning on her of her husband's behaviour to that extent as well. Yeah. Bill Clinton was subpoenaed to testify after appearing in the first release of Epstein documents last year. We've all seen the photos. There are images of the former president in a hot tub with women whose faces are redacted. Again, I want to say when I say women, I should just say person, because I don't know if they're a child or an adult. We just do not have that knowledge.

And so we know that he has appeared throughout the the files that he has been pictured many times with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghlaine Maxwell. Also, Ghlaine Maxwell attended Bill and Hillary Clinton's daughter Chelsea's wedding. Hillary Clinton's deposition day went first and Bill Clinton testified the following day before the House committee.

And because Republicans hold the majority, they led the first round of questioning. Democrats then followed, with members from both parties alternating until the depositions concluded. When we look at some of the key moments from Bill Clinton's testimony, he said that the first time that he had learned of Epstein's crimes was 2008, when Epstein was prosecuted. When did you first learn of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes? I think in two thousand eight when he was

Prosecutor. I didn't there's nothing that I saw when I was around him. Realize he was trafficking women. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein sexually abuse or assault young women or girls? No. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein receive massages from young women or girls? Not that I recall. Did Mr. Epstein ever discuss sexual acts of any kind with you? No. Did you ever have any sexual contact with young women or girls in the presence of Epstein or Maxwell?

No. Did you ever have sexual contact with any young woman or girl introduced to you by Epstein or Maxwell? No. Mr. President, with the benefit of hindsight, were there things you witnessed that could have suggested that Epstein was trafficking and sexually abusing young women and girls? I do not believe so. I I I just wanna really clarify here that You know, Bill Clinton was also

um an attorney general, I believe, of Arkansas and the governor. He went to law school just like Hillary. He is also someone who and again, he has faced depositions like this before. He has faced hearings like this. He has lied under oath before. And I think one of the things to really focusing on here is his movements from things like no to not that I recall. And he also says things like, I never saw anything that I knew was a leak.

Like using the language of like it's not blatantly no, it's I can't be held for that because I was not aware. It's so tough to listen to things like that because A Parts of that you're thinking, you're asking us to deny what we're seeing with our own eyes. in photos and evidence that is coming out on mass.

But also the way you were shutting things down and not taking even like it's like I and I don't know, maybe if he gave it gave an inch they'd run with a mile, whatever it is, and maybe he is just protecting himself to the absolute nth degree.

But for anyone that is a victim listening to that, what a slap in the face. Yeah, it is. And you know what was interesting is that um a couple of weeks ago before these depositions were set to take place, I know that we sit on the podcast. I th I think we sit on the podcast and I saw so much material online that said like I hope. Like there was some sliver of hope for me. Bill Clinton is very old. Say it all.

I would almost have more for someone who just went, Yes, this is everything I saw. It was all wrong. Because I believe Bill Clinton knows so much. Like I personally believe that, right? And I think that it's so frustrating to watch someone deny to protect themselves, both of them, because I think that they have so much knowledge.

You know, take the opportunity and actually hold people like Donald Trump liable here if you know anything. Um, and it's it's just, you know, even he was questioned about that photo of him ha receiving what appeared to be a massage from a person in the hot tub. And you know, he responded by saying, My neck had spasmed and they offered to help me and I let them. It's just

Such a tough watch. Now I want to talk about Hillary. Hillary, former Secretary of State,

Former presidential candidate for the Democratic Party was the first lady for two terms in the White House during her husband Bill Clinton's presidency. She said to CBS, sorry, sorry, if we're just reading from CBS's reporting, Hillary Clinton told the committee She did not recall ever meeting Epstein, but noted that in preparation for the testimony she was made aware that he had attended an event at the White House.

She said she knew nothing about him, and she responded to questioning about Bill Clinton traveling on Epstein's plane as unfortunate. Again, I expect her to be asked if she attended flights. I do think she shouldn't be asked about what she thinks. And I know it's just this committee trying to probe her for information about her husband's activity. It is, and it's also then I suppose that if

Bill was then to say something contrary to that. They can be like, Well, you're absolutely so I completely get it. Again, Hillary Clinton is a n she was a very successful attorney. She's a very successful lawyer. So she did very you know, it was interesting though.

She was very reserved and very good at withdrawing from giving any information about Glenn Maxwell, about Jeffrey Epstein, and again, like when she was asked about Maxwell being depicted at her daughter Chelsea's wedding, she said Maxwell was simply invited as a guest plus one. So there's like a lot of, you know, evasion of any sort of reference or knowledge or friendship there.

And I just wanna play this grab from Hillary Clinton kind of ending her deposition after she discovers that a politician, I believe it's Representative Lauren Boebert, has leaked a photo of Hillary in the deposition room. I haven't got photos that are being released. Of the Secretary as she is testifying from inside this room. Can you please advise me as to whether or not that's permissible and consistent with the rules?

Particularly given that we have asked for a public hearing. If there are photos that are being released of the secretary as she is testifying, can you please explain how that I'm done with this. If you guys are doing that, I am done. You can hold me in contempt from now until the cows come home. This is just typical behavior. We will go off directly. Oh for heaven. So I would like to understand how that permissible before the hearing was. It doesn't matter. We all are abiding by the same rule.

Yeah well I would like to take a break at this moment. I'd like to have a dodge for now. Go off the record.

I mean, I think it's interesting given that they did want a public hearing, right? Obviously the videos have been publicized, but I think it's interesting because it's also Hillary knowing she could leave at that point, I would suggest, because there's been a breach. So that's kind of the current state of play, but we will keep you updated on this because Obviously there is just so much concern about what's happening to these files and if further action is being taken.

Sophia Franklin, half of the original Call Her Daddy podcast, has announced she'll be releasing a tell-all book called Daddy Issues. We'll say 10 out of 10 for the title of that book. That's hilarious. That's genius. Now I want to talk about this because A, I think working in podcasting and asking I guess we've never really spoken about this much, but we had to go through our own battles to get IP back. And it's so funny whenever we've shared glimpses of just like,

We have a podcast and we had to get the IP back and we're a duo and blah blah blah. Everyone's like, wow, that's so cool. And I'm like, it's no it's not. It's really not. Really not. When you look at it though, there's So insane. I think it's a point of fascination for people because A, anyone who's interested in like working relationships, was a fan of the show or Even just the psychology of a friendship breakdown like this?

For those who don't know, Alex Cooper and Sophia Franklin, the duo hosts of Call Her Daddy, they were best mates, they were college roommates. The show was then quickly acquired by Barstall Sports. where it became an overnight success. As we know, they were worth a fortune. The show was accounting for

m so many salaries at the Bathstool office. When it came to renegotiating their contract, really fought for their worth. And they publicly had it out with Bathstool Sports and its founder, Dave Portnoy. They refused to record more episodes until they could improve their contracts. And it was a complete standoff. Alex then eventually came to the table to negotiate, and Sophia did not.

And so Alex continued the podcast as the sole host, which of course, as we know, she then left for Spotify on a sixty million dollar deal, and then after that left for another a hundred and twenty five million dollar deal with Sirius XM in two thousand and twenty four. But from Sophia's perspective, she'd been under the impression that her and Alex were on the same page about not wanting to waver on certain elements of their new contract.

Essentially, Bastel said that they could have their IP back if they stayed one more year, and that's what Alex wanted. But Sophia had other issues that she was pissed about and standing strong on, like the fact that each co-host. Initially only received like two point five percent of merchandise sales. Which is insanely low. Which is insanely low.

Considering that like one hoodie of theirs earned over one million dollars in total sales. Sophia then went off and eventually made her own podcast called Sophia with an F. Uh where she talks like I think it's like pop culture. Life advice, but she's remained very selective about what she's discussed from that 2020 split.

And I remember and I remember always thinking whenever I've seen Call Her Daddy, get another huge guest or do something incredible or whatever it is, like watch a woman in a show go really strength strength and credit there. Every time I would see it, I would think, God, it would suck to be so fair. Like I know that's awful to say, but you were just like, wow, that would be a really, really tough watch. And I think a lot of people are like, didn't you have another co-host?

Y do you think though that she might have been paid out to be silent on certain elements and that's why she doesn't speak about it? I assumed there was an NDA in place, but now A tell all. Yeah. So she's told the Hollywood reporter, my story has been one told for me. And if you asked me to write this book five years ago, you would have gotten a different story. Fearful, vengeful, insecure, wounded with something to prove.

I couldn't live truthfully until I told it in my own words, on my own terms, in the most radically honest way I know how.

I have to say, I'm fascinated by this. Same. I'm so interested. I think the reason I also wanted to talk about this story though is because I can see there are two sides that are gonna be like this whole debate is going to come back up again when this book comes out. And I think there's two things here. One is Alex, you gotta give her credit as the businesswoman she is and what she's built with Call Her Daddy and the fact that she was the one doing the hard yards behind the show.

But a lot of people are pointing out that the phrases and the storytelling and a lot of the um I guess iconic moments what made the show as big as it was was Sophia's humor, her creativity. Yeah. I do find it's a sticking point that Unwell was Sophia's phrase. Interesting. I didn't know this. And to sort of out someone from the company, but then continue to use the phrase that was hers and build

a network named after it, there's something to be said for like, Alex hasn't got over it. Like that's a weird thing to do. It's that that has always sat weird with me. And I do think like, I don't know, maybe this is like the producer conversation for me. Sometimes people are just really good talent.

Sophia was really good talent. Think producers and I think edit like I think there's so much more value that should be given to that. But I do think good talent's good talent. I also think people are gearing up to turn on Alex Cooper because

It feels eerily inevitable that people will do that. Yeah, I was gonna say people love to build, build, build, build, build tall poppy syndrome. And I don't think it's just Australia. And then when there is an opportunity to destroy someone and say, like I always knew X, Y, and Z, It's a floodgates argument. People suddenly go, like, okay, like now I can destroy Alex because she rose too far. Basically, she was too shiny and we had to do something about it.

I really do think that's what's gonna happen. I would not be surprised if that happens in the next few months. It's like people are really waiting for a gotcha moment. Because we also like, I'm interested to see what this book says that hasn't been said before. But also we already know. So I when I when I speak to this like floodgates, like,

destroying Alex. It's kind of like but everyone already knew this had happened and continued on saying, like, Yeah, she's a great businesswoman. Rise, rise, rise, rise, rise. So I'm not sure what could be revealed here that would fundamentally change what we already know has happened. Yeah. There's a lot of people that are gonna start coming for Alex's interview style. I think we're already seeing that. Yeah, we are. I think people fundamentally misunderstand the point of call her daddy now.

Especially'cause it's come from the original show and this is something a com completely different. She would not get those guests. If it wasn't for that particular interview style she's doing. No, I this is a great argument that you constantly make. Not every interview, and this obviously speaks to a bit of a wound about how we were spoken about our interview with Albanese last year. Oh yeah. But I kind of go like

There's this unfair application of like, well, it wasn't a Sarah Ferguson on 730 style interview. And I go, There's only her that does interviews like that. Like the point I love that you Sarah Ferguson, like the combo of our names. Oh, that's hilarious. But it is that thing of like

There's this always this referential point about what the perfect or ideal interview style is. But the point of an interview is it's the person that's able to extract different information in different contexts. Yeah. I also think that we're just gonna constantly see again and again and again. I think we see this across

every woman in media the um accusation of being a mean girl. I saw that way more with Alex Cooper when she clearly had the falling out with Alex Earle. Yes. And there was a lot of people s like pitting them against each other. Um, I'm desperately like I would love to be the fly on the wall to know what happened there. Like desperately. Can I speak completely up front? Of course, if you're listening to this ep this segment and thinking like

This all sounds very like it it feels personal because we are podcasters. We exist in this industry. Mm. And so when we speak about it, there are going to be places where we're coming from our own experience and awareness of like what it feels like as well to be on the receiving end of these kind of attacks. Because we have experienced that, you know, in different contexts.

When you feel like you've done a segment in a certain way that you agree with, sometimes it opens a floodgates argument for people to say, Well, I never liked X, Y, and Z about big small talk. And you go, It's not really the debate we're having. This just feels like an opportune moment for people to suddenly expose every thought they've ever had because suddenly they feel welcome to do. So there's an invitation to step into the ring almost.

And what I think is interesting is like the things that will continually come up is this like open-ended feedback on everything about us personally or everything about any woman in the industry personally. There's always going to be these different feedback loops. And it is really hard to sit and assess like what is good feedback and what is, you know, unfair criticism. I think Alex Cooper as the biggest female podcaster in the world. is going to

Almost be the most fascinating case study on exactly that. Yeah. I mean, we're talking about like two comments. She's talking about millions every day. I can't even imagine what that's like. Yeah, I can't. But of course there's like a personal context here where we speak to it with a different lens from that experience too.

Okay, we are now at the QA for this week. If you wanted to send us a message, you can do over on big small talk underscore pod. But we've had actually a bunch of questions this week coming through our inbox about Dome Fest. So we thought we would just speak to that. Again,'cause there's so many different questions coming in about

what the day looks like, what it's gonna involve, like what kind of show we're gonna be doing. Yeah, there there's a a few really valid questions in that. Um and it's crazy because this is the first time anything like this has been done. A little insight on the day, I think it opens at like

Ten AM, ten thirty A.M. The first show's at like eleven A. M. or something like that. Don't hold us to that. I think I think they're coming out with a really show. But we know it's a morning Sunday day event primarily. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a daytime activity, which is Quite lovely. I also know they've just added an entire second lineup for like a side stage, secondary stage with like five or six other podcasts, which is gonna be huge.

But essentially one of the f exciting parts that we wanted to talk about of the show that we're going to have at Donefest, again, it's not a live podcast recording. It's not going to be in our feed. It's a completely different format.

But one of the elements we are really excited about is we're going to have someone from the audience come up as our third chair for part of the the segment. It'll be on a conversation you'll know about. We'll invite an audience member to kind of pitch themselves to come up with us.

But we're really excited if there are people coming by themselves or coming with friends. If you've always wanted to sit with us and weigh in on our debates, you could be that person. We absolutely can. Also, And you haven't agreed to this yet, but I think we end it with like a TED T.

TED Talk style moment from you. Oh, okay. Thank you for that. That's lovely. I would love to do that. No, I love Ferguson. I love my little TED Talk moments. You know I love to do that in a show. It's my favorite thing to do. I I just wanna see you In a blazer and with a clicker I'm not bringing the blazer, I'm gonna look hot.

You can put it lasers can be really just five minutes at the end. Yeah, but almost and like a fedora. Like just something ridiculous. Like I don't know why it'd be a fedora I've never worn one before. I don't know why I said that. Keep it out. Okay, so we're gonna bring A special pair of glasses, a fedora, and a blazer for me to add to my very sexy chic outfit. I might make you a podium. I might make Meatball Tony do meet and greets for no reason. Let's just like throw things around home first.

Thank you so much again for listening this week. Sarah actually just asked me if we have an outro. That's how gully pop we're being today. If you could tap the bell, follow us on whatever podcast platform you listen on, follow us on Instagram at big small talk underscore pod, leave a review. It all helps get a ticket to Dome Fest on the 29th of March in Sydney. See you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday.