Can You Keep A Secret (& Should You)? With Annabelle Lee

Production. How often would that come up in conversation? Like the idea of like secret half siblings? And they're just like panicking in a call. What I'm realizing from today is that maybe I'm pro-KP secrets. Just keep it a secret. line but it is what the girls are talking about and I am here With Annabelle Lee, the senior producer at Shameless. You've definitely heard her voice, if not her giggle. Yeah, the giggle needs to stop. The host of Everybody Has the Secret.

Well done. Are you exhausted? I actually feel quite, quite pepped because this is so off topic, but in the office before coming here, Guy Sebastian knows no sorry. No, but like no and yes. Because I am such a guy Sebastian fan.

From way back when Australian Idol, I was always rooting for him and he was being interviewed by Miss Ruby Hall, who is the host of Inherit Inherited. I love Ruby. I be like I I love having parasocial friendships. She loves you guys so much. She was so excited that I was coming here today. So yeah, I I feel good, I'm not exhausted. Guy Sebastian is the energy. Elevator love. Yeah. The elevator love is right in here. Wait. I think I would be I think I've seen him at things before.

And you do like immediately get the like nostalgic same with like Jessica Mowboy for me. Yes, absolutely. I'm like oh my god. It takes you way back to being a kid. I sound and like I love S like all the musicians, all the pop stars, but they don't do it like Guy Sebastian does. I've actually never heard anyone do this. Is this a really hot take?

Because he sang. He sang in our studio to shoot a little social clip for the show, for a trailer. Oh, did you go to live show? It was in a soundproof room.

And we could hear him like from our desks and it was immaculate. He does have a voice of an angel, I will say. Anyway, talking about guy spashing is not what I'm supposed to be doing today. But what are we supposed to be doing today? Just I mean We don't know exactly the order of the episodes'cause we've done this big recording couple of days in Melbourne. But it has been so funny, I've noticed that

Like we had Tony Lodge and then we had like Josh and the Imperfects and you and I'm like, wait, I have such a thing for producers that of course I'm like I have like a real Lodge Because that's you. That was your trajectory. And that's your trajectory. Yeah, oh my god, I love both of those people. Right. Tony Lodge.

She's been on eHass, everybody has a secret before. Oh, she could eat that up. Right? She went fucking viral on that show. Like, she's part of the reason why I'm here today. So I'm not. So I think we owe everything. We owe everything to Tony Lutch. That show has gone Just huge. I remember I went and saw your live show. Yes, you with Louie Shushi. You were in the crowd in Sydney. It was so I remember I could see you in the audience.

Could you? You kept me going too. You energized me. You gave me that elevator love. And it was That's so crazy. I didn't even know we were making like eye contact. We were just like in the bright light. Just you and I. It's just you and I, baby. But also like I think the last time I saw you

properly was when I was in Melbourne like years ago producing on a pod. And you jumped and you jumped in and I'm like, even thinking back from then to now, it feels like the shameless universe in general has just blown up even more if that's even possible. I mean, even for you, I I know this isn't what we're doing today, but it's not just this compliment. But genuinely, like look at where we are today. That's pretty fucking epic. It's

Pretty fun. And I wanted to use the Everybody Has a Secret because I I genuinely I love it. And I love Gossip and I feel like Secrets is just like a repackaged of gossip. It's part of the reason why I love the show. It's just me and the girls, me, Charlotte White, and Ruby Hall just.

Chatting away with respect to the secret ke secret keepers, of course. But sometimes they're like diabolical. Diabolical. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. I mean, we should explain I'm sure people would have heard of it, but if if they haven't, go listen'cause it is So entertaining. But people send in how do they even send it in? Do they just like we have a website, everybodyhasa secret.com.au if you would like to share a secret for us. Yes. And people just like spill paragraphs of their story.

And then our producers, Ruby Hall and Lucy Hunt, go in. Find them and Bring them to the show and then anonymize all the details to make sure no one gets exposed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, do you change names and stuff? Change all names, any details like. Like, I don't know, if kids are involved, even like occupation, all that sort of stuff is changed just in case. Yeah, smart. I mean, that's kind of but I was like, okay, I wanna do something on secrets, but I wanna put a bit of a big small hook.

spin on it, but not make it too serious, but just like, you know, look because what I find interesting about it is like the ethics. of secrets and like when to keep them, when to share them, like when it crosses over a little bit into like, oh, territory. Yeah. For real while that's why I think so many people like love submitting their secrets to us because it's fully anonymous.

But they also have that huge pull to share it with someone. It's kind of like innately in all of us both keeping secrets the the want to and also to spill them. I think so. I mean I don't think anyone Doesn't have a secret. Like I think that's like Yeah. We all ha literally everybody that has one secret. It does what it says on the tin. But like you spend so much time now holding other people's big juicy secrets. Like, what has that done?

to you? How do you like see that now? Well, I do think I tend to um like empathize a lot with the people who write in. But then on the flip side, I also think it's kind of like numbed me to scandal. Like I'll hear things in real life and because I'm just I've heard words. It's so normalized for me every week I hear like because now we do a few secrets in an episode. Yeah. It's just so like normal to me, I guess.

So yeah, I don't know what that says about me, but does it make because so many of the secrets would be like in the relationships realm and stuff like that? Like, does it make you a bit like, A bit pessimistic. Well yeah, when I was single, I think I really had that cap on of like Oh by the way, congrats on the boyfriend. Oh my god, do you mean love and I've I've been watching, I've been following that joke on the

Yeah, he um Stevie. I guess I'll do it here too. Stevie. But no, he's like the goodest egg ever, so Not so much anymore, but I definitely think when I was single I had this like mentality because I'd heard so many horror stories on the show. No, I'm right. Like you like there's no one out there. Or it can go very wrong. It can go very wrong. Like at any point, the the long-term relationship

break ups and cheating, like they really get me because Right? Cheating. I mean in general I I can't like I really struggle to hear a cheating story. Like obviously it's like I actually had this the had this the other day. I had a friend like tell me this cheating story and I was almost being too practical with it. I was like, okay, but like

What does their partner think? They were like, Can you just come with her? But they're just listening. Yeah. No, but like, right, I have this visceral reaction when it comes to cheating, but I know that I have to like temper that with Nuance and like when it comes to people, and like I don't know the stats uh when it comes to cheating.

A lot of people do it. So it's very freaking shocking. And so it's I guess you ca y you can't villaini you can't villainize people who cheat. No. Um, but yeah, that's been something that has evolved, my opinion, I mean over the years. Because I think when you hear so many stories as I said, you do tend to feel for the people who write in who might be harbouring these like deep ugly sides of their life. So yeah, that's changed over the years, which has been really nice. Yeah. It's like

It's the most like raw, messy of human experience to hear all of that. But I also like, were you somebody who people would open up to like before you did Everybody Has a Secret? You know how like some people just have like, faces that you just kinda want to tell tell them everything.

So or like at a party and like were you the type that like finds themselves in a corner and it's like someone's now telling you their life story? Yeah. Like genuinely, yeah. And I don't think I've thought about that until right now. Because for years I was like pre this show, actually before I like turned twenty, those years of my like teenage years, et cetera, I was a very secretive person. Mysterious. Mysterious. Like I just no, yeah, I was a lady of mystery. Um and I think I had this really

Interesting skill of constantly deflecting and asking other people about their lives because they didn't want to talk about mine. Oh, so you weren't a chronic oversharer. Like I said. I am the way I'm looking at you at a party. And that's why we are kindred. No, it was so fast because I like

didn't want to talk about my family, I didn't want to talk about whatever was going on inside. And then one day I like it all just poured out of me and whatever. And ever since then I've been a chronic oversharer. But even still I think it's kind of had to balance back out again. I think I went from not sharing to sharing everything and now I'm like trying to find a good in between. Yeah, that is kind of the secret to life is finding that in between. Growing up, yeah.

'Cause like a lot of secrets involve other pe well, most of them, nothing that you really experience is just More like rarely is just you experience something on your own. No, I think that's it's actually it's been this like running theme in a past few episodes randomly about how like so much of sharing your life or like Being vulnerable or whatever it is is like trying to that bid for connection with people. Yeah. But then at the same time you're like

Oh my god, wait, was that was that like oversharing? Or was I meant to be relatable? Well that's what's interesting. I wonder what you think about this as well, because I like obviously you've been following Big Small Talk and you personally for a long time. And Like how you share online is how Similar to how I share online, I think, on my personal page. Um, but you have this like, you know.

You put your content head on or whatever. And you know that like vulnerability is inherently likable and it does help with growth, like to be transparent. So how do you navigate that? I really Struggle with it on socials. Yeah. But I'm seem I'm getting a lot better on podcast mic. I feel like

For socials, I struggle sometimes because a lot of those people I've followed since before doing a podcast or whatever it is. And like it's weird to conceptualize that there's people that I've never met following me that like are following because they might be interested in my life with a pod. But um

Whereas at least on the podcast, I'm kind of more comfortable sharing stuff because it's like, oh, they've come to me, so they definitely want to hear it. But on the socials, I'm like, what if it's just unsolicited? Yeah. No, that's so fair. Oh, I think I'm more like on socials. People on the internet really scare me. I think I'm in jacket centers you though what I'm happy to share on podcasts.

Um, although I do get demons, but that's a fish. That's by and by. But it feels like when you're speaking it's packaged with, you know your tone and all that jazz. Whereas on socials I feel like I worry that I'll get taken out of context or something. I worry about that too. Also, I just genuinely am terrified of comment sections. Do you read? Do you look? Uh you know what? I was

I I do what I don't. I remember when I very first when we like when we went to Melbourne and we went for coffee with Michelle and Zara. This is when we were like really fresh on the pod. And um They were like, Do you guys read reviews? But we were obviously so new at that point. We were like, We love reviews. And they were like,

Yeah, you're not gonna read that time. That time will turn. That time will turn. And I do think that happens where it's like it's a sign of growth, but you're also like, ah yeah, for sure. No, they have long been telling everyone who ever, you know, starts to be on podcasts or whatever, don't look because it really does affect your ability to do your job. Yeah. And I remember the first time I read something horri horrible about me years ago.

And I could I could sense the shift in my like ability to host. You would just I would just like stumble over every word, even though I'm kind of doing this today and be second guessing everything that was about to come out of my mouth. And it just freezes you up in the worst way.

So I try not to look now. I do think it's like such an honor when people open up to you and share things with you. Um and I think even when When it is like the cheating scan, I feel like so much of it comes back to that. My my like number one question is, and I don't know if you found this in your stories, but like, how are they getting away with it? Like I have A ring camera, I have find my friends. I'm like eagle-eyed on an Instagram story.

How is this all still happening? I know. I think I don't know. People are just so sneaky. And also I guess when you're in a relationship, you are trusting of your other. person and you want to believe that everything is, you know, above board. So I guess if you're not looking because like for me, I've never really looked, I'm just speaking based off what I've heard. I've never really looked through someone's phone, for example, or like

looked through someone's f oh it's a lie. I have looked through someone's follower list. Are you an angel? Yeah, I'm just perfect. No, I've done that. Um, but usually it's a sign of they're already being like distrust brewing. Yeah. Whereas people who are trusting and that's what that's what that's what you're supposed to do when you're in love, you know? So it's yeah, it's hard. I agree. I do I I have a lot of um

Empathy and space for people that would check a phone. Because I'm like, nobody gets there unless you don't have like female intuition pulling you there. It's unfortunate. Sure. But we don't love it for them. We don't love it for them. I can see how we got there. It's a gut feeling. It is. The gut is powerful. Do you have like From over the years a favourite kind of secret? Oh, that's a good one.

Genuinely it probably is the cheating ones, even though I I say they have like scarred me and whatever. But aside from that, the one that I is jumping to my brain at the moment is we had a secret about an actor. who had an actor best friend and this okay, we'll go actor A, actor B. Okay. Actor A's gone, oh, I was I auditioned for a role. I got it. But she suspected that her actor best friend who she also lived with

like snaked her. So received a call from this like production or whatever and was like, I'm gonna take this from actor A. And then like actor B, who snaked, ended up being on this like big T V show apparently. And we don't know the T V show, but people have speculated. Oh my god. This was from ages ago and I was like, I still don't know who it is. Like I I was gonna say uh can you

Do you ever like feel the urge to to like research a little bit afterwards? It feels wrong. Even though yeah, I really should go back and check. So I'm like this per like it was apparently an Australian TV show that we all watch on our screens. Like heartbreak high? Well I don't know. Genuinely I've got a few. I'm getting a defamation. Yes. Don't come for us. I don't know. How do you know though which secrets are real? Are real and aren't like

I like the Mayo added a little bit or GST. Yeah, we don't know. We don't. I I don't it's actually ideal. If the that makes for a much better story. Said Mayo and don't tell us that you are. No, we I've never really there maybe have been we've been doing this show since twenty twenty two. I was gonna say, yeah. So a lot of secrets have been sent in and there are probably like two or three secrets that I've been like

Oh, I don't know if this actually happened. Um, but that's not really good for anyone. I said, it's not really good for Not doesn't make for good content to be second guessing that all the time. So you do kind of tell yourself to lean in. Yeah. And genuinely I just find that people who are willing to write in.

are probably telling the truth because they're so like pent up about whatever's happening and they just want to hear another perspective on it'cause they can't or they don't want to talk to anyone else about it at this point in time. So with that lens, I'm always kinda like, Yeah, that sounds real. Yeah. Are there sometimes stories that you're like This doesn't feel right to run, like we're gonna

We're gonna do this person a favor and not run this story. Oh yeah, there are certain topics we stick clear of, like super, super, super dark ones. Yeah. But to be honest, in the um Because every episode, if you haven't listened, is made up of like one or these days a few chunky secrets. And those ones, my co-host Charlotte and I are generally kept in the dark.

About the reac the full reaction. Yeah. Yeah. So we're not really involved in the like picking of the secrets and planning of the episode. So fun for you though. Yeah, right. And it's just I've also had to like learn how to be okay with not coming prep to an episode. I was gonna say because as a producer, that's like a lot of control to hand over. Exactly.

So I don't think I've ever actually said this before. And like it doesn't really matter. People don't really care probably, but the first season of e has. That was back when we would did um yeah, ten episodes a season and it was a rotating roster of co-hosts. So we had like Flex Mommy, Louis Hansen was one of them.

Um, I did prep those episodes or I I helped prep those episodes and it was no good for me. It meant I was like dot pointing everything and it was just like I couldn't get be in the moment. I was going to say, because like especially when they are ethical conversations as every time. You'd almost want to explore every single avenue to make sure you've given the most well rounded answer. Then you're s you're not

reacting. No, and and I also was so aware that someone had actually written this in and they were probably if you write into a s a podcast about one of your deeca deepest, darkest secrets, You're probably gonna listen in and see what they have to say. I just knew I was like that was front of mind and I really wanted to be delicate. um, on all fronts. And then I would also edit the episodes. And I r I would just go back into the studio all the time and just like slot lines in because I was so

Scared that someone was gonna be upset with me. It's just like producer chat. It's actually just producer chat. Anyway, back to secrets. Um

I wanna go back to something you said a little bit earlier as well about how people are sending in secrets to a essentially a stranger, a podcast producer, and not telling the people in their lives. Like, does that still surprise you? Not really. Maybe at the very beginning of this show, I what surprised me was uh how many people felt shame just in their own ways based on their own experiences. And that's probably like very insular of me, but

Growing up, I felt a lot of shame for various reasons. And I thought everyone kind of thinks they're alone in their own, like dark feelings. And then when this show came round, I was like, oh man, so many people have this in their own way in different variations and Yeah, it it's really something that kind of ties us together in a strange way. I yeah. Yeah. Do you think there is a difference between secrets and lies? Yes. Secrets to me.

they're things that you conceal, whereas lies, you're fudging the details, like you're actually making something up. Yeah. Whereas secrets is kind of just like an omission of the truth. Because maybe you did something wrong or maybe you're embarrassed and you're actually you're not like the reason why you should be feeling these feelings or whatever. Sometimes people do something wrong. And they keep it a secret.

And like a lot of the time the reality is they have to fess up to face the repercussions of whatever might have happened. other times if they're just really sad. Like w I remember not really sad, sorry,'cause this example isn't really sad. It's very relatable. But we got a listener write in about how, um I guess embarrassed. I hope I'm not taking her words out of context. She was that she was still single at her age. And that stuff is like.

just s something that again brings us all together and it's like nobody's fault, but this time that we're living in and unfortunately it is really hard and it's not a reflection at all on that person. So yes, and lies are just kind of like making shit up. I agree. I also think it's funny because there are white lies that are I would say more ethical to keep. Yeah. And um

You know, if it is to protect someone's it's a fine line, but then there is protecting feelings too. That's true. That's definitely true. And I definitely sometimes fall into this trap of

Just kinda telling people, be honest, like set it free and like you know, the truth will find you. But that's not the reality for a lot of people. Like sometimes it is healthier to keep things from other people, obviously not huge things like I cheated on you, but small things that aren't that aren't like that that necessary, I guess, to bring up, um, in whatever context. My other thing with when we're talking about secrets though is it does it's the old wives tale that like

Time will reveal all. Yeah. Do you ever think that that's the case for a lot of these secrets? Yeah, like I do think that. I recall times where I've said Something along the lines of um let nature play its course or whatever. Then there are times like recently we um heard from a person who had had a 10-year affair with her ex.

And over the course of those ten years they had each so the person she was cheating with and her had created like started families and they were both married. And she was kinda like, Okay, I think I'm done. And we were like, Are you though? And if you do let time play its course in that scenario, it feels like you're in a really unhealthy Habit at the moment. So sometimes no, sometimes I feel like something huge needs to happen to shake you out of it. Yeah. Those kind of stories.

It's it's interesting as well if you like say you are someone that someone opened up to. They you're her friend and you knew her kids and h and her husband and De ex en de hele familie. That's so much weight to put on someone. And it does get into that debate. And it's really interesting when you talk about this with friends about like if you knew someone's business. Would you keep the secret un under the principle of it's not my story to tell? Yeah. Or like I don't want to insert. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, we usually say, not my circus, not my monkeys. Because then you're also like selfishly if you're a third party. By inserting yourself, you're inserting yourself into the mess and then you get ti like dragged into all of it. There are things you can do, as in you can talk to your friend and try and convince them to act in certain ways. But then as well, sometimes it's annoying when you talk to a friend and you're trying to tell like speak.

something and like you're trying to make them see what's happening and they just don't listen. That's frustrating too. But I'm generally of the opinion that you should stay out of it. What do you think? I you know what? It's slow case by case. Cause I am of that opinion. But I also if I, for example, had I had like a boyfriend that was cheating on me and I knew that like

his best friend and roommate that hung out with me all the time knew and didn't tell me, I'd be like, fuck you and fuck you too. No, totally. And I would never speak to them again. Right? But then Oh. It's hard to know. I've like personally never been cheated on. So I don't actually know what kind of emotions actually flow through you when something that horrible happens. Yeah. Because I can like, one part of me is kind of like, I can imagine myself.

Going crazy like just like yelling at everyone. But then but then I'd like to think now as someone who hasn't gone through that, that I'd be like, No, I understand why you kept like why it would have been hard for you to t be the one to break the news.

Regard what do what are your opinions of like if you get told a secret? from a friend and they go don't tell anyone, would you genuinely not tell a single soul? Or are there people that you would tell? Um generally I wouldn't tell a soul. If someone made it very clear to me that that was a secret, I'd would take it to the grave. If I can, I'd probably like I'd probably tell my boyfriend. Like literally, he's gonna forget. Yeah, exactly. That's the thing. He's gonna forget.

He doesn't even know who I'm really talking about. Like but he's so happy to be there in the gossip. But like that's maybe harmless to me. I think it but yeah, but then it's also it's funny, like I have friends that I would love and adore. And we would all be like, She's so much fun. Never tell her anything if you want it to be a Cause It y I guess you know who to tell and who not to tell things. Yeah. The people who share everything with everyone.

They make themselves known. It's like yeah. Well, it gets you in trouble. And that it really comes back to biting. I'm the exact same. I reckon if they The person who's told you has said you cannot tell anyone, including your partner, including your best friend, sister, then I won't. We were explicitly explicitly told don't tell your boyfriend. Let's talk semantics here. But I will tell. people well like for ex an example would be

My sister just gave birth to or in December she gave birth to her second child. And when she was early days pregnant, she was like, So I'm pregnant. But like it's pretty early. Don't tell anyone and don't tell like don't even tell Stevie. And I didn't. So I'm pretty trustworthy. No, but then he actually guessed. Like God What am I supposed to do here? Do you know what else? You know who else I love to tell things to if it hasn't been explicitly told not to.

Like an overseas best friend. Yeah. Or like someone who's removed even when Hannah and I first became friends, it was kind of so much fun because I knew none of her friends. She knew none of mine. We were from such like Like we met at work, so we just came from these different, I don't know, social circles and she'd just moved to Sydney at that time. And

I it was fun, I could rattle off names and she was like, I literally have no idea who I guess having hot tea. She's like, Wow, I am so inv and she'll check in on my friends. Like I imagine how are you? What up with them? I imagine now she probably knows some of them.

Yeah, but now can you not I guess she's sort of like your partner in another way, right? Like surely she's off limits. Work friends are a funny one because I think there's a similar vibe of you just become friends in your own bubble and then you're like It's safe here and there's these four walls of this. Oh my god, if there were a fly on the shameless media office wall, so much gossip. The office looks so much fun. It is very fun. Also a lot of like

You would know this, like working in we work a similar job. A lot of like plugged in time. I think that's what people don't see. Obviously they don't see it because we're all just filming the fun bits. But like a lot of the time we're all just like, I've got my noise-cancelling headphones on. I'm like, don't talk to me. That is the etiquette. If you have headphones on. You can't speak to them. Right. But then but then I worry because I've like

always got my headphones on. And so I'm like, oh I guess like you can talk to me'cause most of the time I do have these on, so it's kind of unfair of me. And I I work at like a podcasting company, so I guess chat'cause you're expected to talk actually. But I'm randomly like I'm randomly pretty um introverted. Although, how do you feel about introvert-extrovert chat? Do you believe in it? I Oh, I don't know how I feel about it. I think

you can lean towards one side. But I think it's like a love language. I think they're flexible. They're flexi. I'm a flexy introvert. Yeah, it's all like um attachment styles. It's like you don't have to stay in any land. So true. I think they are movable. I would describe myself as an extrovert, but if I don't get forty eight hours downtime for myself after like a busy week, I'll like I need I need alone time still.

I think I'm the same but leaning intro. Yeah. Because I live alone at the moment, although I'm about to move in with J B. Um which will be fun. But I'm very that's like a whole other uh like episode in itself is like the move in. We just did one. Oh did you? Yeah. Oh we just did we'd like polled our listeners on things like they think. people who are about to move in with their partners need to know. Oh, that is so like prep vibes. Because it is this age where like

suddenly everyone's like, Well, I'm guess I'm not gonna go to another share house. Well, my situation will be living with a boyfriend and then two other friends of mine. I think that's a good stepping stone. Yeah. No, I'm really excited. I feel kind of bad because like

I just have everyone I love in the house, like my best friends, my boyfriend. But everyone's happy about the situation, so no complaints. You are like a that's like you are the glue. Yeah, well, you said it. Um Yeah, I guess also like housemates is another if I was to you know, if anyone's gonna know a secret, it's like definitely the people that live with me. Even if it's my own secret to keep, I'd pr think I'd probably struggle if something had happened in my life to not tell

the girl living two seconds across the the corridor from me. Yeah. If something's just happened to you in your life and you're crying or whatever it might be, your house gonna be. It's hard to hide that. Exactly.

I actually put on our stories because I was like I wanna Test this like, do you keep, do you tell, what what is the like ethical thing to do in that situation? And I like some of the responses, I can't wait to share. Okay, all anon, of course. But like

Everyone has such like movies happening in their own lives. Like it's such a reminder of like people have some shit going like shit going down. Right. And it's like, no wonder you're writing into a questions box or like a landing page. Cause it's like Man, you have to get this out. Yeah. And then others and y w so sweet in this inbox is some of the um

Sweetest, lightest touch secrets had the most like, oh okay, I'm willing to admit. Really like what? Okay, this one I'm gonna start with one of like the best one to ease in. I feel really bad. I hate the cake that my best friend makes me for my birthday every year. And now I'm in too deep. Oh, I actually really feel for this person because like

You are interested. Keep it. Yeah. That's an ethical white line. And like I think you'll be able to stomach a slice of this gross cake once a year. Yeah, yeah. Shut up. Okay. I slept with my roommate's ex, but then they later reconciled. No, you have to move out and you have to I don't know. Then they eventually got married. That one shook me because I was like, wait, so you were just like living as the third in that house? Yeah. Not telling her?

Wait, so so she slept so so so So she had a roommate. Roommate had a boyfriend. They break up. She goes and sleeps with him. Yes. I wonder if he's But came back into the home. He must have. Must have. That's crazy from him. Real dog from him. And I guess this person, but And and it's like this is what I mean. Sometimes we hear stories that are sent at a point where

It would have been better if you said something way earlier. Yeah. And now we're in the enough time has passed. Yeah. So now it's like. Well, obviously honesty a lot of the time is the best policy. But like now is a really tough time to speak your truth.

If you were ever going to be ethical about it, the ethical window sounds closed. Exactly. You kind of suck anyway now. Because you probably would have been in like the moral gray area slash green zone, if as soon as your roommate got back together with the guy. You kind of were like, oh

This is really awkward, but sleeping with everyone's ex. It's bad. Naughty, naughty. Naughty, naughty, it's bad. And I guess you couldn't have predicted that they would have ended up getting married. No. If if I'm getting married to someone and I know That he had and I didn't know that he'd cheated, I'd be like, Oh my god. That's And then finding out next afterwards. Like

Okay, this one here. I'm talking to my ex on the regular. If my friends find out, they will kill me. Like just chat? On the regular? On the regular, yeah, that's giving pen pal. That's just confusing. That's confusing and that's not healthy. And you know that. Let's be real, you know that. You're not you don't keep secrets from your friends.

I also think with like bad relationships or like bad ex boyfriends or whatever it is, if you're keeping it a secret from your friend, it's'cause you already know your aunt. Yeah, exactly. Okay. I learned when I was twelve that my friend at the time that her sister was only her half sister. Awww They have different dads. When my mom found out that I knew, she made me swear to never tell them. I'm 37 now, still friends with them, and they still don't know.

I know this because their mom is my mom's best friend. My mom explained that sometimes we learn things that are not our story to tell. That's tea. She ate with that. She ate with that. She ate with that. Cause like that would be but imagine knowing having to like be taught the entire essence and complexity of a secret at 12. Yeah. And like to be

Able to like understand that enough to not let that slip it asleep or to file it away. To file it away. At that young. That's tricky as. I imagine like that would be obviously hard to keep from your best friend. But also

Like how often would that come up in conversation? Like the idea of like secret half siblings And they're just like panicking at a call. What I'm realizing from today is that maybe I'm pro keeping secrets because I I keep thinking like, oh yeah, it's too far gone. Just keep it a secret. That's some heavy shit though. Yeah. Well here's one. My grandpa found out his sister was his biological mother.

But it was kept a secret from him until he was in his seventies. Oh, this happens, I hear, from movies. This is like a movie plot that I Hollywood has covered this. Yeah. It'd been done before. That's one that you'd almost Oh, that's in your seven you'd always just wish that never found out, right? Yeah. Also does it get to a point where like everyone's

I could be speaking out of turn because there are obviously com would be complex like family dynamics. These are getting the bite size one sentence to what is clearly a lot of date. That's another thing I've had to get used to. stopping myself from saying like, Oh, but we don't know these details and it's like, Okay, let's just take it from what we've got, the info we've got. I imagine like growing up. You would grow up.

Being close and still having like a family bond, I assume. So does it get to a point when you like hit a certain age and you're kind of like, Oh shit, obviously that would be huge news to learn about. Yeah. Well do you have a sibling? Like do you have a older sibling? I have an older sister, yeah. And if someone was when you were seventy was like, by the way, that that would that is your mom. Yeah. But I think I'm just really guessing.

But don't you think like it would really mess with your brain? Oh, that would that's a lot. But you wouldn't like sever ties or, you know, break off. you know, your sister or whatever it might be. Like, I think you I imagine you would come to a point where you'd be like, Oh well I s I do love her and I can imagine maybe she was young and she you know Yeah really you could definitely empathize with it. Yeah for sure. Also that would just be confusing to explain to a kid. Yeah.

And then by the time they're a teenager, you'd be like, Well now this is maybe a bit weird to explain. Like you can see how that got away from it. Exactly. And then now we're at seventy. God, time is crazy. My best friend sells her underwear and socks online. Presumably to OnlyFans. Mm-hmm. Doesn't tell her husband.

If it were just socks. I don't know. I'm trying to be like, yeah, this is probably something you should tell your husband. Yeah, I think so. I think if you I think if that's something like power to you, if he's going to hate it though.

Like, are you not telling him because you imagine he won't let me tell you? That's what I mean. And I'm like, then that's that's something that's some communication that needs to happen between you two. Exactly. And I just think If you're ca it's kind of what you said before, like if you're keeping it. It pr probably means you know he's not gonna like it.

And yeah, uh if it were me wanting to sell my undies and socks, which is not something I wanna do at this present moment, I would like introduce that idea to my husband and be like, What do you think of this? Like that's probably the way things should have gone, but I agree. This one is like My best friend's little brother is gay and closeted. He's been sleeping with a very footie bro lad who is also his stepbrother for years. And I'm the only one who knows.

He has a new girlfriend every month. It's also sad because everyone would accept him. He just hasn't been able to see that yet. Oh. That obviously keep it so laid. So laid. Obviously, you keep it. You can't out anyone. That's terrible. Exactly. But my God. And to be like, I don't know. As an outsider, or not an outsider you are involved in this story, but as a third-party person to be like, everyone would accept him, but he can't see it yet.

you just have to wait for him to come to that vision on his own in his own time. Man, that is, I'm sure, common. Crazy for the best like your sister's best friend to know. Sister's best friend. My brain. My brain's best friend trying to figure out. Like having to like do family trees in your head. Yes, and there are always like different pseudonyms for different like characters and I'm like, who are so many names? I'm not good with names.

No, it's like a lot to follow. Um had a situationship with my housemate for three months and the others never knew. That's saucy. That's saucy. And like did it end after that? Was it just a short fizzle out? fizzle out of a situationship and then live with them. Yeah, go back to just being housemates as per like as you were. I'm so impressed with people that can A be friends with exes and B

see them regularly like that. Situationships are notoriously like you come out of them sort of like it mess it messes you up, right? But to come out of it and then be like, all right. Running call. Yeah. Have s he moves on. You know he's moved on. Someone's over. I would not be able to, but power to this person. Wait, okay, I'm gonna end. I'll end on a funny one. Thank you. I really don't like my best friend's dog. I have to think that I do. And I have to pretend that my dog loves me.

I was about to say before that last one, is this me? Because I am really uncomfortable around dogs. You're not a dog person. I want to be. Spiritually, yes. Yeah, yeah, right. I I just find them like really they just jump on you. They do. They really do. And I didn't grow up with them, but I would love to like in the future, if I were to have kids, have a dog in my family my family home. Cause wouldn't that be nice? Yeah. I

I think if you haven't grown up with them, that's a pretty big part of it. I know. But so I want my kids to like have that synergy with dogs, you know? Loved that last one. A brilliant end. Brilliant end. Oh my god. Thank you so much for coming on this. This has been so much fun. And yeah, go listen to Everybody Hells a Secret if you haven't.

And check out your Instagram. We'll link everything in it. But yeah, this has been thank you so much for coming in. I've had so much fun. Thank you, Sarah. And I love being small talks. This is just a huge preference. Privilege. Privilege. Pick up privilege.