Big Talk: The History Of The Pill - PART TWO

Production. Before we start today's episode, we would like to begin by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which we're recording today, the Gadigal people, and pay our respects to elders past and present.

Hi, I'm Hannah. And I'm Sarah. Welcome to Big Talk. Big talk deep dives into the big news stories that you've heard of but you don't know all the serious and salacious details about. We revisit the most shocking headlines of the past that have shaped the world we know today. And in this episode we're looking at the pill part two. First, let's do a recap from part one.

Love it if you're listening all the way through, all in one go. Yeah. I mean split it up. Welcome back. Welcome back. I mean the first thing we did was go on our personal journey of the build. So if you needed to recap the history, it starts with Yaz Estelle. Okay, let's do the actual recap. So we learnt about the birth of contraception and how humans have tried to prevent pregnancy for thousands of years in many unsuccessful ways. We were introduced to the pioneer of the pill, Margaret Sanger.

A nurse and an activist who became a central figure of the birth control movement, opening the first birth control clinic in the US in nineteen sixteen and helping create what we know as Planned Parenthood. We touched on how hard it was to educate women about contraception and the pill because of the Comstock Act

Act in 1873, which made distributing contraception information illegal. Then we covered how the pill was developed, including the science behind the pill, how it stopped ovulation and thickened cervical mucus, which blocked sperm. The controversial clinical trials that took place in Puerto Rico, where the pill was tested on hundreds of women, but they weren't told they were participating in an experimental drug trial and weren't informed of the potential risk.

And how the pill was a cornerstone for informed consent. So we spoke about those pamphlets you get in any medication that tells you about the risks and any side effects of the drug. We took you through the approval of the pill where we learnt in nineteen fifty-seven it was first approved in the US for menstrual disorders. And it wasn't until nineteen sixty that it was approved as a contraceptive. And then in nineteen sixty one it was introduced in Australia, New Zealand and the UK.

And once it was in Australia, we broke down the twenty-seven and a half percent luxury tax it was first hit with and how then Prime Minister Golf Whitlam abolished it in his first ten days in office. We looked at the modern day pill and how it remains the most common contraception in Australia with over thirty different pill formulations available.

Then we touched on the hormones and gender myths surrounding the pill and unpacked psychologist Sarah E. Hill's argument over the historical claims that women are too emotional or irrational because of their sex hormones, which is not supported by science.

Okay, so to kick off this part two, we're gonna start by looking at the backlash. So While you know, at the end of the last episode it was all Starting to sound welcomed and positive for women in society. It definitely did not come without backlash. When the pill was released, it faced strong opposition, particularly from the Catholic Church.

Chalk. Chok uh who renewed its stance against contraception in nineteen sixty eight, calling artificial birth control intrinsically wrong and therefore sinful. And the pill even saw backlash from some feminists who were worried about the broader implications for women's health and societal expectations.

And this newfound freedom did come at a cost for some women. The side effects as we've spoken about were super common. And for some the complications were serious, strokes, heart attacks, blood clots, depression. Now we mentioned Barbara Seaman earlier when talking about informed consent, but her book in nineteen sixty-nine, The Doctor's Case Against the Pill.

Also exposed health risks associated with early high-dose versions of the pill and criticized the medical establishment for downplaying them. Then, in nineteen seventy, a mandate was introduced requiring that all oral contraceptive pills include patient safety information. So that's the informed consent that we spoke about earlier.

And then in nineteen eighty eight, high dose pills were finally removed from sale altogether and they were placed with lower dose formulations, versions that had significantly better safety profile and far fewer side effects. So the pill forced important conversations about medical ethics, informed consent, and the right to fully understand the risks tied to our healthcare. And this is still an ongoing conversation that we're having today.

Like we're over sixty years on from the introduction of the pill and it's still such a big part of the conversation. So I guess the question is, what do Australians actually think about it today? Well, the data in Australia is a little patchy, classic. We don't have one neat comprehensive snapshot. But when Family Planning Australia pulled together Medicare figures and national survey data, they found that as of twenty eighteen, the pill and condoms were still the go-to methods of contraception.

Now long acting irreversible contraceptives or LARC Like implants and IEDs have slowly been gaining ground. The report described the increase over the decade to twenty fifteen as small but consistent, so they're gradually growing in popularity. But interestingly, the pharmaceutical benefit scheme data, you'll also hear it referred to as the PBS. shows prescriptions for the pill have dropped, but there's a cat.

A lot of the newer oral contraceptive pills aren't actually listed on the PBS, so they don't show up in those same numbers. In other words, the decline doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. And when we talk about younger Australians, even among teens, the pill is still a major player. A 2021 study of thousands of high school students in Australia found that 40% of female respondents used the pill during their last sexual encounter.

Condoms were slightly ahead at 47%, but the pill was well ahead of implants at eleven percent and IEDs at just 3.7%. There was also a small study done in 2019 that went into a like a little bit more of the reasoning, the deeper context as to why people make different contraceptive choices. This focused on women aged 18 to 24. Through twenty interviews, researchers found a mix of influences.

Some women said they felt steered away from long acting methods by doctors, others were uneasy about the idea of having something inserted into their bodies. So I've had the implanon inserted into my arm, which as it look, I don't want to fear monger. I had a really bad experience with it and it brought on a lot of acne and I only had it for about two years before it was taken out of me because

I remember this. Yeah. I remember when this happened, but also you were on the pill at the same time. Yeah. And the reason I was on the pill at the same time, this is when I tried all these different pills, was I essentially just had bleeding the whole time I was on the impladon. And this is an something there's lots of different reactions to the implanton bar, which is just a slow release bar that sits in the top of kind of your arm.

And it la it's supposed to last for three years, I think. And it's actually supposed to be the most effective contraceptive method. So I had it in and I got this terrible acne and I also bled for like 90 days straight. Like I couldn't work out how to stop it. And what they did my doctor did repeatedly, I found a new doctor, was put me on the pill for three month stints, quote unquote, to shock my body into remembering that I had the implant on bar.

And it was almost like a double contraceptive method. But what that meant was then I just had all these hormones going on that meant I was really struggling to work and have a normal lifestyle. We don't talk about that enough. That was horrific. That was horrific. You knew me then and you're like, Oh my hair fell out, my My skin went back. Like it was a really like and that's just the physical kind of the like the appearance based. It was a really complicated time.

But again, for a lot of people, best thing they ever did. So an IUD is another method which is an incredibly effective contraceptive that all my friends highly recommend actually. And that's why I'm like planning to get the next couple of months because it seems like it's great for most people. So when we think about this idea of like uneasiness in the body and like all these different methods, I also understand that when people have heard bad stories about sort of insertion devices.

It seems like it's a more permanent thing, even though it's not as well. And when it comes to misinformation, there's actually a lot, particularly around IUD. So the study noted that confusion and misconceptions about certain contraceptive methods were quite common. I think I think this fits the bill with what I've heard a lot of the time as well.

But when it comes to getting the pill, a big conversation has been around scripts as well. Like right now in most developed countries, women still need a current prescription from a doctor to access the pill. That's starting to shift though. Places like New Zealand and the Netherlands have made moves to make the pill available over the counter. And in the US, states like Oregon and California have done the same.

Here in Australia though, the conversation has been a little bit more divided. Not even a little bit, more divided. The idea of reclassifying the pill has sparked mixed reactions, with strong views on both sides of the debate. There was a study published in two thousand nineteen in the Journal of Pharmacoeconomics called is reclassification of the oral contraceptive pill from

Prescription to pharmacist only cost effective. Which is just such an enticing title. That was the longest title I've ever had to read. Um producer Helen's like, we're putting the full name of the journal title, we're like fucking fighting for our lives, right? It found that if the pill was available over the counter at pharmacies in Australia, it could save the nation. Australian dollars, ninety-six million a year in healthcare costs and save twenty-two lives over thirty five years.

So this is really interesting because I also remember when this debate was happening and I was posting about it on Cheek at the time. And I had a lot of pharmacists who were friends of mine or followers reach out and say, like, as a pharmacist, like Yeah, I understand the value in, you know, making it easier for people, but these are also risky medications which you need to trust someone to take you aside and explain.

And actually have an ongoing relationship where if you're having issues on the pill, you wanna have a doctor's record of those issues documented so that you're not just kind of repeating The same issue too. So there's like I do get that. And I do get that for a lot of incredible like doctors and pharmacists. I think that's a tough. Debate at the moment, though, of like people taking your period side effects seriously. When they don't know that. And also that.

One of the issues is that a lot of doctors don't bulk bill and you can be spending upwards of a hundred bucks just to go to the GP to get a script and sometimes you just want to read. But I'm saying there especially at times in my life where I've been making

you know, I'm working for passion, not money. Um I haven't been able to afford it. Yeah. No completely. I'm waiting to be adult enough to just go to the doctor. I'm I'm with you. I'm absolutely with you. And it's also the kind of thing where um, you know,

I want that access, but I also don't want me as a teenager, maybe like as an eighteen year old, freshly going and actually just like getting it over the counter. I want someone to sit with me and explain what's going on. Not that pharmacists don't do that, but I think there's a pressurization there. And It really we need an overhaul of the entire system, but I understand the accessibility issues go far beyond this one example too.

Also suggested that if the pill were available over the counter without needing doctor's prescription, we could see about an 8.3% drop in pregnancies. And that wouldn't just mean fewer births. It would m likely mean fewer miscarriages, fewer abortions, fewer ectopic pregnancies and fewer stillbirths as well. This is so interesting. It is just a debate where like you can be absolutely ethical in your approach on both sides. Yeah. And have really good points. It's just a tough one. Yeah.

There are some potential downsides to consider though. Uh each year in Australia, the modelling suggests that we might see around 122 additional cases of sexually transmitted infections. On top of that, about ninety-seven more cases of depression, five extra strokes, and four additional heart attacks annually. Can I just say, hearing you read that, that's a hectic specific number.

Like nine. We've done the numbers and we're gonna see 122. We've got to touch the numbers on exactly five. Like, obviously, that's horrific, but like We predicted that if you know how that women in Sten you claim to be women in Stenu, like how did they get there? But like not like a like the other ones like eight point three percent decline in, you know, birth but

97 more cases of depression, five extra strokes. Like that's crazy levels of data. It's crazy. But to be considered. Yeah. At the moment in Australia, the rules around getting the oral contraceptive pill have changed.

quite a bit over the past couple of years, but it's not as simple as just walking into a pharmacy and buying it off the shelf. So technically the pill is still a schedule four. So prescription only medicine. that means you normally need a doctor's or nurse practitioner's prescription for it.

Fuck, it's annoying. Like, sorry. It's so annoying. And I have to call the doctor and I then have to go in for an appointment and I just want a script like I just want my script refilled. Can I do a little plug actually of a service I used to use? There's multiple now, but the one I used at the time was Kin Fertility.

And you can meet with a doctor once and it's telehealth and they give you advice based on the symptoms that you've put in, you know, you a answer all the questions and then they have like a telehealth appointment with you. And then you just have a prescription that's mailed to your door every three months. Yeah. So there are different ways that don't like so again, I guess I am on board with the pharmacy

you know, change because I also made sure I was using a system that made it easy for me to remember and have it delivered to me i in a cheaper way. Yeah. Um, but there's so many methods. I mean I mean I don't mind usually my doctor will like bulk it and give me like six months worth. But I would typically try and skip my period. So it's not I'm losing. I love weeks. This feels like such a girls girl conversation and I want it I I bet off the back of this big talk.

We're gonna get an influx of messages of people being like, This is what happened to me. Yeah. And we should open up a QA for it because I think everyone has something to say about this. I hope so. Also, everyone has everyone's bodies are so different, everyone reacts so differently. Like I I remember I was talking to Dr. Jen Gunter about this, and she was saying, like, the reason we even have the sugar pills in it, the reason we have this like

quote fake period is because psychologically we wanted it. Like there was actually no medical reason to have it, but they put it in because it was kind of freaking us out not to have it. But I will say if I skip the sugar pills more than like two months in a row, I will have diabolical cramps and be so Awful when I do have my period. I'd never skip it. I literally I had the same thing. I have to have it. Yeah.

And like weirdly, I sound like that literally sounded like you'd seen something at Gucci or some shit. I must have it. I know that sounds like it's it's a crazy. when you know your cycle and how you feel throughout it and all sorts of things. Yeah. I feel quite in tune to that now. So that if I if I skip it, it's like I don't have the

I It's like I'm missing a It sounds wounded, but I'm so with you. It's like your body is like demanding. Yeah, you will have it. What is that fault in our styles quote? Pain demands to be felt. We're That's getting cut. No, it's not. However, um Most states and territories though do have as you were saying like a pharmacy programme that let Trained pharmacists resupply the pill without having to see a GP first, as long as certain conditions are met. But the biggest difference is

Is between starting the pill, which is like getting a new prescription, which still requires a GP, and resupplying it. So getting more of the same pill that you're already on. And while most standard combined oral contraceptive pills and progesterone only pills are included in these services, pharmacists won't. switch you to a different pill, they can only resupply the same formulation. You've been prescribed. Okay. Yeah, this s this makes

I m I remember I was on a really expensive one for a while and I I my doctor put me on it was like, You must be on this and then I'd go to the pharmacy and they'd be like, Do you want the like off brand version? And it's gonna cost you forty literally forty dollars less. Pharmacists offering this service must complete additional training and follow clinical protocols, and not every pharmacy will offer it.

And because you're getting a clinical service and supply a prescription only medicine, most pharmacies charge a consultation fee on top of the costs of the medicine itself. So it's more expensive, which is not ideal.

I think also the other thing that gets brought up, which I brought up at the start of part one, frankly, was the mental health implications of taking the pill. And and for good reason, because changes in sex hormones alter the way, can alter the way. someone thinks and feels. And that's according to clinical neuropsychologist Caroline Govitch.

Now, some research has actually found a link between taking the pill and depression, but as Dr. Gurvich explains, the idea that sex hormones influence brain function is still pretty new. So our brains actually have receptors for the sex hormones, estrunine and progesterone, right in the areas that do control our emotions and our thinking. So when it comes to understanding the relationship between the pill, the brain and our mood.

It is important to consider this prevalence of depression in Australian women, particularly those who are of reproductive age. Women are more likely to experience high or very high levels of psychological distress, so nineteen percent of women compared to twelve percent of men. And reproductive aged women, fifteen to forty-five years, do have high rates of depression. I also want to pause here with that stat and say

I don't and I do not want to diminish men's mental health. No. But constantly we are sold the narrative that men suffer more extremely at all times. Like it is very much like a public kind of narrative culturally that like Women do not suffer from mental health issues at the same rates that men do. And yes, the stats do show that men are more likely to take their own life in this country.

But I think when we talk about these high rates of psychological distress and what women at a medical level are s expected to endure, especially around fertility and reproductive health. Whether it be endo, whether it be childbirth, whether it be postpartum depression, whether it be, you know, the pill and the implications of contraception. Yeah.

Like if this were men, can you imagine the conversation? No, I know. You know I know. It's crazy. I uh no I'm I feel like I've thought on that and I would say a lot of the reason that conversation feels dominant at the moment about

that comparison between how much airtime is given to women's mental health, to men's mental health, I think it's because it feels like a relatively new phenomenon for men to acknowledge mental health. And that's like a cultural obstacle we're coming across, which is like

I'm gonna be open about emotions. And I think it's like finding the balance of giving space to that. I know we're like undering a lot of cultural conditioning about why that's difficult to talk about, but then also acknowledging that that doesn't take away or make You know, I'm with you. You know, it's just like completely that, right? Yeah. And there's research from neuroscience studies that show that estrogen and progesterone, which are the main hormones in the pill.

have powerful effects on the brain. They influence brain chemistry, they affect neurotransmitters like GABA, G-A-B-A, they influence serotonin, dopamine, they help regulate mood, behavior, thinking. Changes to these systems are can contribute to depression, shifts in behavior, difficulties concentrating, difficulties with recall and memory. So brain imaging research also tells us that also suggests

that estrogen plays a role in activating parts of the brain involved in emotional and cognitive processing. So this is including the amygdala, the part of the brain. And natural progesterone appears to have calming anti anxiety effects by interacting with this GABA system.

However, when we are drawing firm conclusions from clinical trials on the pill and depression, it's it's challenging, right? There are many different types of contraceptive pills. They contain many different hormone combinations and doses. And on top of that, clinical trials often focus on severe major depressive disorder. Again, that's quite an extreme end of the spectrum. So when we're examining all these impacts, it's difficult to understand the extent of them.

Depression doesn't always present as severe. There are mild and moderate symptoms that do affect our day to day life, our quality of life, and our lifestyle. One of the strongest pieces of evidence, I remember reading this actually, it's from a Danish study involving more than a million women. This study found that hormonal contraception, particularly among adolescents, was associated with an increased likelihood of being prescribed antidepressants.

Which obviously suggested that depression may be a potential side effect of hormonal contraception use. And a study in 2024 in PubMed looked at oral contraceptives and the risk of psychiatric side effects and found that overall the peel is safe and helpful for many, but mood effects vary significantly. And some particular people in groups are more vulnerable.

And the main points of this study found that randomized controlled trials, like the gold standard study, generally don't show major mood differences between people who take the pill and those who are taking the placebo. But observational studies, which are more likely to look at kind of like people in real-world contexts, have found that oral contraceptive users may report higher rates of depression, more anxiety symptoms, and increased risk of eating disorders.

Should we talk about the male contracept of pill now? It would love to. So I I deep dived a journey. You know way more about this. I deep dived this to write a piece for Cheek on it and then I didn't do it'cause I was just a bit overwhelmed by all the stuff about the contraceptive pill, so we included it in the big talk. But basically, in 2016, the World Health Organization commissioned this trial of a dual hormone male contraceptive injection that reduces sperm count.

That's actually terrifying. Yes, yeah. But first phase, right? 96% efficacy rate. So then in the second phase, the trial didn't make a past. And you obviously go, well, why? 96%'s a huge number. Yeah. Well, some of these 320 men experienced adverse side effects. Et ce sont-ils ? Acne ? Mood swings. Increased libido. We didn't really get that last one, I feel. Yeah. But and I you know, I say I remember seeing headlines about this and it's like

Almost like a punchline now. Yep. Because it's like, sorry. Yeah, are you fucking for real? And it does make you think like Does that mean if the the female contraceptive pill was introduced right now, it wouldn't pass? Yeah. No, well this is exactly it right because

Obviously, we know the common side effects for the female contraceptive pill, but there are also we know that the common ones are like this dizziness, mood changes, tender breasts, bleeding between periods, weight gain, reduced libido, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then there's also rare side effects. Breast cancer, cervical cancer, blood clots, deep vein thrombosis, stroke. Like insane. Again, I you know, I've seen

TikToks of women who get out their pill um side effects list and it's longer than their skirt. You know, then like make a joke, what's longer, right? It's insane what we're up against. What I find crazy about uh women's health in general right now. is I don't even know what to attribute to the pill. Yeah. You know? Like I don't even know where this problem is stopping and starting because I have fifty-seven other things wrong with me. Like I found out

I'm almost definitely celiac this year. Like, do you know how tough this has been? I don't know what anything is. I'm trying. I've been with you on this journey where we go to get lunch now and you go Get a gluten-free lettuce bun that ailments. My skin has rashes unexplained. Alex is fucking insane. I have ailments.

But I just want everyone to know that Hannah's now whipped out her phone to just like dot point some notes because at the start of this record I said, Is that laptop gonna last you? And you went It's been a big week, everyone. I my laptop is kind of how I am right now. Like my laptop and I are one. We're just moving through the world. Metaphor. Yeah.

Obviously, like as we s as you said, like women are expected to kind of bear the load of the side effects of the pill. Man up if I say concrete. But it is that thing of like, well Also, the burden of contraception falls to us because and I think there's an interesting debate in this, which isn't for the big talk episode, about

Well, why are we the ones expected to bear the brunt of contraceptive when but also if a man was taking it, I wouldn't trust would I trust. It's my body at the end of the day. Right. But it's almost arguably like this rite of passage to say to your friends which changes you noticed, if they subside, what side effects you have this month. Like it's just so commonplace. But in this case of the male testing

The otherwise incredibly highly effective contraceptive was stopped by this relevant safety committee overseeing it. And then the injection didn't proceed, but obviously rightly outrage everywhere did. This was the punchline.

And I think from my perspective, like despite like the very valid anger around this, the view of the problem is too simplistic when we just say men should cop this, right? Because when we report when when I look sort of went and looked at all the reporting on this particular clinical trial. There was 320 men who participated and they reported 1,491 adverse impacts. So they were severe and they were frequent.

And again, there's a spectrum of risk and severity when we're talking about these clinical trials. But the question is not whether male should be subjected to these side effects, but instead, as I read in this conversation article written by Adam Watkins, if the plug has been pulled on this one because of side effects,

Would the female contraceptive pill make it to market if released today? Sarah's I actually sorry, I don't want to quote Adam Watkins from the conversation. I'd like to quote Sarah just three minutes ago. Much funer, everyone in the car, isn't it?

I think the other then element that we need to raise in the modern day discussion of the pill is, you know, since the overturning of Roe v. Wade in the t in twenty twenty two it by the US Supreme Court. We've seen conservative influences wage this war of misinformation on the pill. So for example, Alex Clark, who is from Turning Point USA.

She has half a million, I think more than half a million followers on Instagram alone. And she described the pill as poison. She also suggested it makes women bisexual. She claimed it induces abortion. And she sells stickers that say birth control, where done. That's all from an article I found and I went and watched the videos to confirm she does do all of this. La Trobe University also conducted research into the top hundred videos in twenty twenty three in one month.

Under the hashtags, you know, birth control, pill, contraception, cycle tracking, they'd garnered like four point eight billion views. Only one in ten of those videos was made by a medical professional. So like this is all about like this natural cycles, natural methods. I I mean, if if you are interested in that, I will link in the show notes the Dr. Jen Gunter episode because we go through all of that and get her expert advice on things like cycle tracking and

Yeah. Just the uh I don't know, just the general uh health concerns, but the TikTok lens almost. Abs no, absolutely. And this kind of speaks to this. I don't want to demean anyone who's a critic of the pill like we are. We've obviously been quite active critics because of our own experiences, but also trying to step outside your own experience and recognize.

that, you know, there are gonna people that have side effects, but that's not the whole story as well for everyone. Yeah. But there is this intersection of this like toxic wellness culture and the trad wife movement that's really taking off. And medical misinformation is running rampant in these circles.

And it's not just the far right that this is influencing, because we're all being exposed to this content. And there was a really interesting piece by the ABC that was published in twenty twenty three that explored how the pill, which was obviously once kind of hailed as

this symbol of liberation is now viewed as a burden. And what the article did was it unpacked our complicated relationship with the pill and in particular, how TikTok specifically has reshaped the conversation. And it It taught you know, this article explored like all of these ways that women are sharing like

hormone horror stories, viral moments. There's private Facebook groups where women talk about their contraceptive pills. I think it also speaks to the fact that like even earlier, how we talk about contraceptive pills like their old friends like Yaz, Diane, Estelle, Brenda, you know, like

All over YouTube there's videos analyzing all of this, and there's just this clear tone shift that we're experiencing right now that I think I I we've all across both sides of politics, wherever you see on the political spectrum You are having these conversations about people with your friends. It's so funny. Sometimes we talk about this on the on the pod about like

how we have bipartisan agreement on something, but we're coming at it from very different angles. Like for very different reasons. Yes. So it's like you can criticize the pill and these side effects and what this is doing for women. And not have it in a trad wife way. Like it's like if you're going down that pipeline, check your receipts. Like

Who is encouraging that for you and what is their motive? Yeah. Because there is so much valid conversation here and there are also people that want you to have thirteen children. But then that's why it's interesting to then talk about like pop culture figures. Yeah. And this what this makes me think of is that interview that was in Rolling Stone last year that we covered on the pod, uh, from Lord, who spoke about her experience going off the pill.

The quote was, I've now come to see my and she means my decision, as maybe some right wing programming, but I hadn't ovulated in ten years. And when I ovulated for the first time, I cannot describe to you how crazy it was. It was one of the best drugs I've ever done.

This got so much conversation at the time. Oh yeah, and I remember I would highly recommend Chloe Grace Laws, who's this amazing commentator I follow on Instagram, wrote this incredible piece back on responding to Lord and the far-right wing programming. But this conversation we had on the pod at the time was just like I get it, that's dangerous as well. Right. It did it really needs it's tough.

Because people should be able to speak about their experiences. And I now that we've done all this research, it's like I know where you're coming from with that, but also Right now, the way that's being framed is dangerous when people are really susceptible to some pretty horrendous algorithms at the moment. But, you know, the the rejection of the pill isn't necessarily a broader exodus.

of contraceptive though. Like it's not new. There was a piece by Daniel Mazer for the conversation that reported just six percent of of us are using an IUD, with five percent opting for the contraceptive implant.

In Sweden and England, that figure is more than 30%. That's crazy. I want to talk as well about going off the pill. 'Cause I think when it comes to coming off the pill, we've seen a lot of conversations over the past couple of years of women choosing to stop taking the pill for various reasons, as we've said. And one of the pieces in the ABC from 2021. uh interviews a woman called Laura who has been on the pill for almost half her life.

And at the time she was twenty nine years old and she's quoted in this piece saying I just don't know my body or how I'd feel without the pill after so long. The piece also mentions Laura who was 32 at the time and how when she went off the pill she felt really ignorant about what would happen to my body.

despite talking to doctors every few months to renew prescriptions. This is a a quite a common story. Yeah. There's also a study back in twenty seventeen that looked into what young Australian women want when talking to doctors about contraception. It's unpacked how in Australia most contraceptives require a doctor's prescription, and research shows that doctors can significantly influence women's choices about contraception.

Yet there is limited research on how women actually experience these interactions during contraceptive consultations. So gaining insight into these experiences could help us better understand the factors that shape women's contraceptive decisions more broadly.

I also think, you know, it's just it feels in this conversation like I feel tense because I know that there's a lot of people listening that also probably influenced by what we're saying and all the different messaging and our personal stories, right?

And it is that that really tough thing. I think it's a product of social media and the environment we're in right now where our for you page is like the bean soup theory, right? Where it's like, this is for me or it's not for me. Is this my exact experience or not at all?

And when I have a bad experience with one pill, that doesn't mean the pill is bad. That doesn't mean all pills are bad. That doesn't mean one wouldn't work perfectly for me. Yeah. And I think it's hard to talk about this because you feel like very like this is a two people talking about their experiences and sitting with tens of thousands of listeners who are probably thinking on theirs as well and comparing.

And it feels so hard to lean one way or the other, knowing the political ramifications, even though these are very personal healthcare decisions. Yeah. And when medical misogyny is rife. It's really i I find it enticing listening to the Lord interview where she says, like, I went off and it was amazing because I did the same, right? I went off and I was like amazing. Oh, I said a s I said a very similar thing earlier in this series.

And it's it's just no matter what, you don't want to kind of condemn the thing that's given us so much liberation. But I also think there is major cause for concern about how it has all these adverse impacts and we aren't pushing for it to be improved. I think the big thing

trust the doctors that we're speaking to, that we're on the right pill, if we wanna be on the pill, that we're on the right contraception, that we're tracking our symptoms, that we know what the side effects are, that people are taking that seriously. Like I do think a lot of it can A lot of this conversation can be helped by just

relationships with the medical practitioners. Yeah. And also download the Stardust app. The Stardust app. You use it still? Yeah. Yeah. It's fantastic. I've added my boyfriend on it. He gets notifications every day. He gets notifications. Um, he actually told me this morning, he goes You'll be off your lighting tomorrow. I also think it's important to note with Stardust, thank you. I need to say one more thing.

You can cast a spell to whoever's um no, seriously. So it has a function. No, we are not sponsored. We are just saying we just constantly talk about it. Because you can log your symptoms every day and it's helped me to understand my patterns and anticipate my own behavior and thoughts.

Because sometimes I'm like, Oh, what's happening to me? And then I open the app and I it goes, This is what's happening. You go, Oh, thank God. But you literally if you connect someone, it might be your sister, it might be a boyfriend that gets the notifications every day, but you can cast a spell which is like, Bring me chocolate. Wait, this is so funny. Hmm. This is what my star dust says today. Okay, please. Some would call this your prettiest week.

Such a shame that we don't film big talk. Beauty is obviously subjective, but you might have a good face day. Take selfies. Sarah's like, no need to ask me twice. Should I cast a magic spell? Yeah, cast one. Okay, I'm casting one now. Well guys. Thanks for watching. Totally like fifty thousand other things we could have said in that, because this is such a big topic and I am genuinely excited to hear people's responses and personal stories and

It's something that I feel like so many people are an expert on and it was really cool to learn about. It was. Thank you. Loved it.