Dave Portnoy

president day. You might be a stool, might be a fan yourself, but his story is so interesting and we talk a lot about the building of bar stools, which is what I was the most interested in, the building of personal wealth, which you didn't do with the money, with the money means to you and the freedom that then comes with one having influence, to having power, and

three having the wherewithal to do whatever you want. And we talk about how he built the number one digital media company in the world by using fans, by using culture, and by using opinions, especially those of a guy like him personally, because he's the base of Barstool Sports. So thank you so much for being here. This is the

premier episode season two. Let's go. Thanks for being here man um, so weant to talk to you about the most right is is not so much like public persona, although that's super interesting, especially in the last eighteen months. But it's like the business of Barstool, right and kind of the creation of the brand and creation of kind of the I guess, like the movement that you started and you found it in Boston, did you always know that you were going to be an entrepreneur and start

your own company. Yeah, I always wanted to do that. Did I know it would be Barstool or anything that looks like it. No, But I knew I was gonna do my own thing. Like I had a bunch of different ideas before I start Barstool. I thought Barstool would be the easiest to do without money, without funding. It didn't look anything like this. It was basically a newspaper. It started as like an offshore gambling things. But you had them around Boston, you correct, Yeah, you still like

the news racks. You still see them in every city. You know, you open it, you take it for newspaper. So I like gambling. I basically called I want to do something I liked, enjoyed, and called all these offshore gambling companies and basically asked them what they would advertise

in whether it advertised online anywhere. They actually at the time want to get off the Internet because, um so, this is why around two thousand three, two thousand four, if you went on a site gambling site, there's like fireworks, bombs, it just looks like you're getting a credit card stolen. Really, um so, they want to get off the Internet and onto a physical newspaper. So I sold a bunch of

ads before it launched. Um but it was really four page black and white, hardcore like sports fantasy sports gambling. That's where it launched from. But it was always a business side, Like I had other ideas. This is the one I landed on because I thought I could do it the easiest. Probably idiotic to like launch that thinking that would be the easiest, but for whatever reason, I thought it was the most realistic use furniture company. So this was again it's kind of like internet one point.

Oh when I was doing this, but you know how like college kids graduate and they just throw their furniture on the side of the street. I was like, well, what if we just have a huge couple of trucks pick it all up for free, warehouse it and then sell it online and it's you know, for cheap, but we're getting it for free. So that was one of them, um, and I actually think there's some companies that do that now. And then the other those kind of like with like

office furniture. Yeah right, so and then the other one. So I was like decent at sports, but like not D one but like D three good. And the thought was to connect And again you gotta remember the time it was with the internet to connect coaches like D three coaches with like D three athletes. So high school kids we're going to college who still want to play sports, and most of the schools don't have recruiting budgets and things like that, but the coaches still want good players.

So it was a way to connect those people. It's pretty elaborate, Like I spent two grand at the time, a ton of money for me, like developing the software. Uh so it was called next step scouting. Um, but those are the two, those are the three I decided between barstool next Step scouting in the furniture company. And how many people started with you when you started barstool me just me, but then you started to bring in

some friends. Yeah, not even friends really, Like I talked with my friends about starting it, and everyone was gung ho, gung ho. But when the rubber met the road, there are nowhere to be found, and I was just like funking, I'm gonna do it. Um, So I started it. And then we put ads in the original newspapers like we're looking for writers, we're looking people to help, and we got like an original four people. But I didn't know them prior to the newspaper and they never got paid,

like we weren't making money. They work for free because they enjoyed writing. Um, it's bad timing for them because we don't want to say floundered, but we didn't have money for a long time, so there's nothing around and they all at some point got adult lives, Like I moved. This is not worth it. And the timing kind of like when they stopped as sort of when we started our ascent to them being able to maybe to make money. We go on the internet at the time too, or

then you made that switch. No, So it was in newspaper for I don't know two thousand four to two thousand seven, two eight, and I used to wake up and hand the newspaper out like outside subway stations, and a guy who took it like routinely was moving from Boston to New York and basically he's like, I loved the newspaper. If I build you a website, will you put it on the web. I was like, yeah, if you want to do that for free, knock yourself out,

and the original ones. I just take the PDF and uploaded the guy uh Ian White ended up being like the CTO for Business Insider. So I got very lucky, Like sharp guy built me a very easy to use, rudimentary another guy who worked for free for quite a while. If I'm like, hey, can you change this or do that, he'd do it just to be nice. But that was the birth of the website. Yeah, not playing. Yeah, I mean when I started, if you told somebody I had a blog, they'd be what is that? It wasn't a

term yet. When did you first start noticing that you had traction? Because you said you weren't making money for a little while. And I feel like every business kind of has that moment where it's not working yet, you're not making money yet, but you know there's like that that little bit of traction that like, I'm gonna keep doing this and not go do my furniture idea. Yeah, so I always thought it was on the ascent. But I've heard a lot of people say that in most businesses,

I know fail. I also don't know if as a rational it turned out I was right. But I've only done one business and it worked, so, you know, I always thought it was kind of going up. UM, and I delivered the papers myself. I go around Boston. Every time I went in bars every week, it was like, um, you know, more and more people will be like hey, waiting for it. So it's just I had that gut feeling like hey, this is more and more people are picking up on it. But it was probably when I

really was like, oh we got something here. We did a music tour in two thousand and and called Stula Palooza. UM. We had never been outside of metro Boston, and the thought was, let's go see what the world is like

outside of Boston. So he picks six colleges. You Mass Quinnipiac, you are like local schools, UM, and we hired this kid, Sam Adams, who actually went on to a pretty decent career at the time, nobody knew who he was, and it was music based because we wanted to get liquor sponsors, and it's like we had to figure out how to do that. I remember, We're going to bars. That was the plan. I go to little bars, do little events.

And the Mullin Center is the arena arena you mass And I think maybe a day after we put tickets on sale for this little bar, the arena called and they're like, hey, we're getting all these calls for this concert Stulla Palouza, Like what is it? And it's like, it's just a little thing. We're doing at like a bar, like a hundred people like would you ever try to do it at the Mullin Center? And I was like, well,

we can't afford that. I don't thinking like I don't know how many tickets, Like we're just getting a lot of people asked me about it, so we think we could do. They cut me a pretty good deal um,

and we sold. It was just the floor, so it was three thousand people and sold out like five minutes, and and you thought you were gonna yeah, and it happened everywhere at all six and we showed up and we've been through a lot now, But it was like the Beatles were there, like the signs were in every dorm had like vehetle of stool, like we get out of the bus, people like grab it. It was insane,

it really was. And that was that was probably the moment when I was like, Okay, we have a very big, much bigger base than I ever realized at the time. So that was probably the first real eye opening, like I'm not gonna have to stop this. When did bar still start making money? That tour was the first time we made I would say real money, like I I paid Sam Adams twenty grands for the six shows, and

we probably made a couple of hundred grands. Uh, and that because he sold way more tickets than in Yeah, and then we we moved. We continued with it and started doing something called the Blackout Tour. We did a couple of different concert things. Actually one was an abject failure. We did something called so I saw that I saw that first tour. It's like holy cow, Like we did

three thousand tickets with no talent. Imagine if I bring talent in and rent these arenas for Walham, we can make a tont Do you remember how much you're charging for tickets about fifty bucks. So like we did this, uh a concert tour called back to Stool does Mike Posner, which was like cooler than me, was big uh wallet Mac Miller on it for bucks. Uh. So it was like a pretty loaded lineup sold the same exact amount

of tickets, Like we didn't go up one ticket. It was the same, and and we were tied in with these like I changed it. I was so confident. I rented these huge arenas and I thought we were going to business because I owed them so much the ticket sales, we we canceled tour and I could basically like loss, So we're fine. I could handle that. But what I learned from that was people did not care about our talent. They were coming for Barstool, they were not coming for

who we put on it. So we came back with a DJ tour called the Blackout Tour UM and that was just a DJ I'm still friends with played other people's music, and we were charging fifty dollars to come to that, and it exploded that that's so crazy. We went through a period whereas we do three or four shows a night, and I was clearing like net maybe like a quarter of a million a night. It was wild, like you couldn't get the tickets. It was all just

in metro Boston. No, We're everywhere throughout the country and throughout that entire time you owned bar stool until Yes, So twenty fifteen sixteen area a guy Mike Karns, who ran Yahoo's sports switched went to churning. Um. And at this point we're more successful I think than probably most people give us credit for with the merch business and sales and like I was making, you know, well into seven figures. So I wasn't like, oh, I'm looking for investment.

I was happy. Um. And you weren't publicizing the success at that time or no, right, no, because in a weird way, there's always that dynamic of like we's just this gritty like blue collar company of band made. I was a little bit. I got an int a Tucket House that people are very well aware of, and I've been honest with like where I'm at in like life financially or success wise. When we had nothing, I told you, and now we started having it. Um. When you buy

the Nantucket House, is that their team? Yeah? It was pre churning, like that was to be honest, that's my favorite place in the world. And if I ever was able or fortunate enough to get enough to like buy that house, I mean like I made it. So I was very happy. Mike Karns reached out to me. That's the Churning He worked for Churning UM through a friend who actually passed away the old quarterback for the Giants in Kentucky, the hefty lefty Jared Lorenzen, who we had

done some stuff with UM and was friends with. So he hit me up. He's like, do you mind if I passed uh your name and number along with this guy He's he's a friend of a friend of an agent or something like yeah. Sure. So he reached out, was like, I just want to talk to you, like, would you guys ever take investment? Like you know? Maybe

He's like, well, can I come talk to you? Was in San Francisco and he was in Boston the next day, So right off the bat, that's like a pretty serious sign of somebody's like okay, I'll be there and they're there. I'd had a lot of other people reach out. Something's always off. It's like they want paid to go see them or what all right, how serious are you? And I wasn't looking for anything because you guys are making money, right, I wasn't actively trying. I I never thought we would.

What was your like gross revenue around that time? It was probably like fifteen million, and like we're probably netting like four or five off of that something like that now because he didn't need the investment. Yeah right, And I'm running the business myself. So it's like I was happy he comes in. He's basically was very open ended. He's like, if we gave you money, what would you do with it? Um? And what do you think your

strengths and weaknesses are? Uh? And I basically said I would create what I considered the first reality seven like blog, which is get we're all in different cities, do you everyone in New York in the one roof? Put the cameras on, just go at it? And that was kind of the idea basic um. And I'm like, we don't do the business side. Now. I think I could. I just didn't really have time. It's like, we have the content,

that's all we did. But we didn't try to say, I like to spend money with us, you had to like know somebody who knew something to like get in my year because we didn't call back like leads. We just like whatever, you can do whatever you want. We weren't looking to do that. So it's like we're smart though, I mean now, but as as they're trying to do that to copy what you did, almost right, it's like

it was hard to do it. Like I remember the company that is now DraftKings like he they had to call in like a favor basically to get me to take their call and spend money with us, Like all right, I'll let you do it, but I really don't want to. Um. Again, I was doing well and I didn't want advertisers like calling me up my ass and like I just didn't work because whatever, then don't do it. I don't care

um so he he. And then the other thing I said with Currents is we gotta build out the business side, like we don't do anything with that. Our technology sucks. I mean, we had such a loyal fan base, like if our website broke, we just like you'll be back when we check it, um, and they would um. So we had no technology, no sales, no nothing, and it's like we gotta hire CEO and we gotta just build out the business side. And they like that. I think

they liked that I acknowledged that was an issue. UM. And it was pretty quick from there, like a series of conversations. Valuation, which they the cleaners on for sure. Uh. And what was that first valuation? The first offer was seven million and then they valued it at I believe like twelve and a half, some of it going to the company, some of it going to me, like I think five million. That's the first time I had real money went to me. Three millions of the business they

owned fifty of it. I think that was a structure of the deal. UM. And you negotiated that by yourself, by myself, bringing like your parents or attorneys or UM. I told my dad, my dad doesn't know nothing about this ship. I mean he's a smart guy, but not miss but no, no attorneys, nothing. I mean, we obviously had an Interney look at it if it was done, UM, and we set up the guidelines where like we want to be here at a certain amount of year. This

that UM. But Karns was right. He was a Barcelol fan forever and he knew, which I believed, if we had some structure in business we we would put gasoline basically on like a fire. And that's kind of exactly what happened. Like we got in office in New York, we thought would be there five years or there for ten. That's um, everything just exploded. So why did you take the money? He didn't need it. Why did you take the investment? I mean that's you just started this thing.

It was your baby. You had of it. You could do it on your concerts and website and everything forever. Yeah, so I didn't. I believe heavily and our content, our fan base, and I also thought a lot of people didn't know who we were. So it's like do you want to be a big fish in a small pond or like you know, go for try to hit a home run. Um. I was also at the point when Turnon came where it's like, okay, what's my next move?

Like I I can pretty much put this thing on autopilot and be happy, but I really believe there was a much bigger goal out there. Also, it was a cash out moment, not cash out, but it was for the guys who worked for me for a long time. Like I was doing great, they were doing decent, but they weren't like life changing money. They now have life changing money. Um, so it was a way for everybody to get to the next step, re engender, reinvigorate everybody.

But it really like I'm in a much different place if I I don't, I couldn't have gotten here without investment. I don't think so. And they were the right guys, like I Bus turned his balls a lot, but um they really let us do their thing. And through the years there's been a lot of times where probably other investors or whatever maybe would have gone cold feet with us, and they didn't. They've they've been pretty true to their word.

Do you think your ability to stick to having an opinion no matter what the funk anybody else thinks has been one of your secret sauces. Yeah, because people are attracted to the authenticity. Yes, that's and that's not like a plant. This is me, Like I'm a like cantankerous type type guy. That's maybe like a Boston the East Coast edge thing. But it's been like nothing has changed in that regard from day one. Obviously we're more careful not to put like balls on te s and let

people just you know, have their way on things. We know will create controversy because it DAWs ripple. We still even though I said we're not dependent on advertisers, you just don't want to piss them away for no reason. Um, and we know we have a target our back. Like I don't know how necessarily that has happened, probably some

of the decisions I've made. But I am somebody who has a target, like for people who probably if they sat down and like talk to me, would be like he's actually I like him, Like he's not, he's not. But you know you read some of the ship out there and like I sound like Hitler, Um, like it's crazy. So, uh, we gotta be a little more careful. But yeah, overall, if I believe in something, I'll stand by it. I don't, I don't care. And it's it's worked, it's it's created.

It strengthens our fan base, uh, motivates them to support us. But then it also like the people don't only like you. There's nothing they hate more than being told like, well, I don't care what you think. It's just like ramps them up to completely insane. Yeah right, it's like what are we gonna do? How do we get this guy? At that time? Then the business was you had the the webs right, the website, you're doing the social so you're building out all the content, the people, you're doing

the merch, you're still doing events. Right when did everything else start? Like the podcast and the podcast, Yeah, there was a guy's barstool kind of then just almost kind of took over, almost to the point like I almost felt let down, you know, in the early two thousands by what College Humor could have been. Yeah. Right, And you've been very good. I think maybe the nicest thing that someone can say about us, and I've said about us, So I don't know if it counsel if you said

about yourself. But we've managed to remain cool and ergy for like almost two decades. We were quick to shift. We've been on social media, TikTok, you name it, where we see something like we gotta be there, um, and we span a bunch of different hourors. Hard to do that, whether you say college humor, um. There's a lot of examples. There's so many companies like the Chive or they don't.

They may still be around. I don't see, because everybody else seems like they have like they have the one thing they figured it out and they never pivot and they never go anywhere else because they just think it's a fat And we touch people in a lot of ways that they don't even know we're touching them. It's like, I always there's a guy told me a funny story. He's like, my girlfriend hates barstool, hates it, like every stereotype that people have negatively about it, Like she believes,

but she loves the pizza reviews. And I don't have the heart to tell her it's the same person, Like, we gotta do some amount of that. But uh, yeah, the podcasting, we had a guy who did it back when we're still Milton. I didn't know what it was, and I told me it was an idiot. It was like, do it if you want to do like your little podcast bit, do its. What is that gonna do? Is before is being monetized. Um. But what we do is

we don't tell people what to do. So if we hire you, it's because I think you're funny, creative on the talent side, and then do whatever you want, like just do if it works, great, if it doesn't, great, we'll support it and see how kind of the public reaction to it is. So when we got the investment, we're able to hire people more freely to do all

this work. Yeah. Yeah. So we have you know, a podcast like Part of My Take, which is the number one basically sports podcast in the probably world but definitely country. Um and were we had a guy, Big Cat who's been with us forever. He wants to hire a guy Pro Football Comments Air p f T. He wasn't getting paid that I think Bleacher Report. We're like, we'll pay you. They came in instant magic. Um. You know, the call her Daddy is a story a lot of people know

about where Alex just started this. We just saw like the reel of it and it's like, oh, this is weird. Um. And we had Alex come in and I asked him, like, who who made that sizzle? Really for you? Because it was slick. I mean it looked slick, and she's like, I did. I taught myself how to do it. And once you said that, it's like, all right, we want to hire you because clearly you're taking it serious. So, you know, we've had a bunch of that haven't worked.

But we just bring people in and let them do whatever they want. Like we have this. We have a golf podcast for Play and they run like tournaments throughout the country. They sell out very quickly. And you know this is a Harvard kid Riggs with weird bad eyes. But I remember he's like, my dream is to work for you. It's like, all right, whatever, And he came, drove to New York, sat down. He's like, I don't

want anything. He's like, I don't want money. I just like enough for me to get by and I'll prove what I'm doing. Um and he has and we just let people do whatever they want and we have the advantage. It's catching up. But I often say we're kind of like the first digital media company, and where that's advantage. The people who work for us, like are born from the Internet, so they they have gotten our attention by being funny or more interesting than other people, like the

beauty Internet. Now, I always help people you don't need us, like for like, you can create your resume online, we can look at it. You can create your whatever TikTok podcast. Whereas a lot of older media people they expect to be told what to do, what to say, and they don't have that kind of mentality that you need on the Internet. So it's just given us an advantage. We just move way faster. I think that gap is shrinking now, but that was a huge advantage early. What if he

tried doing that definitely hasn't worked. I don't know, Um, I mean we did that music tour that did not work, the one that failed. Uh, trying to think, you know, we moved so quick out of things. There's definitely podcast there's been people that have gone, come or gone, but that that the music tours the big one. I don't know. We weren't good at early contracts. Like again, we touched

people so many different ways. But like, have you ever heard the name Jenna Marble's so like I hired her, like she really yeah, Like she worked in a tanning salon in Boston, we and I hired her. She ran a female site called Stool a La, so we had Barstool Sports Stolo La. She floated all her early videos

and we didn't know how to monetize it. So it's like she got offered to move to l A show me the contract, like yeah, go do it, um, and then we got kind of a falling out the day she not kind of we got a falling out the day she left because she basically I thought kind of wrote something but long story short, like that situation we didn't handle well. But like there's so many you know, a lot of people point to Pat McAfee, which maybe we didn't know how to manage talent totally properly out

of that. But the web of barstool was thinking like as I was walking over, is a lot greater, like whether it be Jenna Um. I mean, I think we've launched the two biggest female social media stars of the last twenty years with Alex and Um Jenna, and yet people will be like their sexist, Like the results say something like totally different. We have a female CEO and

those two examples. You know, biz uh Biz was on TANTS like hockey launched, they're back on the NHLs, back on TNT and like he's saying next to Wayne Gretzky on the main booth, like that's spin and Chicklets, like our podcast, Um Pink Whitney the Drink. It's just where just touched people in a lot of different ways that they're not totally aware. Some I'll walk down the street, people like that's the pizza man. That's all they know, Like we just launched the one Bite frozen pizza and Walmart.

It's like, I think we sold two thousand of them in like a week. It's like the number one frozen things. So we just we have a ravenous audience and it's all real and offense and the pizza reviews that you've always done. Do you remember when you did the first one? Yeah, it was a debate Dan Big Cat and I got in, which is, if you could eat one food the rest of your life, what would it be? I said pizza? He said burritos. He was going with, like you can

do like breakfast burrito basically. UM. And we did it for a month straight. So that's all I ate. That's all he ate. And I was just doing. People be like, well is it any good? I like, I'll give you one bite. Here's a review, like quick. And that's how it started, the same thing. It's like people are inch like something happened with it. We're just a little spark. Yeah, it's like why do people care so much about this? Um?

And then when we moved to New York, I was just like, I'll try them all now would I definitely if it wasn't working, But I could tell you just tell when things are going it's like, okay, this pizzas resonating. It also is weirdly like a window into I think New York life, like because I would walk out and do it and all these weirdos would just jump into the review. Um and that kind of just took on a life of its own. But a lot of people now the pizza, like I said, they have no idea

necessarily about barstool, like none. They'll just be like, that's the guy who eats pizza. Yeah. I don't know if that's insulting or compliment people just pizza, man, though, Like just well it at me as I'm walking by. So it's particulous. What's the best advice that you give out? Now? When people ask you, I just always say, like, don't

talk about it, just do it. Like there's so many people just talk ideas and do And even in my own kid, it's like, hey, we want to do this, that's all right, do it, like you don't need me to do it. So I always tell people at it's like it's very easy to talk about something, Um, it's a lot harder. Just do it. But that's that's what I generally tell people, and I mean, I don't know. Well, I always say we were in I think a lot

of companies are probably this way. We're the right time, right place, and the right people like you kind of need all those things probably together, you know. And it's the one business that you've ever started. It's grown into hundreds of other businesses. So what's next now? Right? You said you're super rich, you got all these houses everywhere. Yeah, I'm not that young. Um, gambling is a huge focus and I've never really been in something like this where it's, uh,

it's like a gut or war. Like I've never had as direct like peer to peer competition as we do now. Like it's very all I can name them. It's like, all right, we're competing versus DraftKings, Vanduel Caesar's MGM, big boys spending literally like billions of dollars on marketing. We don't spend any We just go with the like it's barstool versus them. Like you won't see our ads in the NFL. You won't see any of that. So it's

scrappy underdog. But it's different, and that is like the focus for the next you know, least kind of three years. Your story is super inspiring and it's very very cool

because you've built something that never existed before. Yeah, like you've invented something with your eyeballs and then you just created it and just kept writing it, which I you know, I think obviously everyone in this room, everyone in this company, everyone out on the street, is now very very clearly aware of But it's just been super awesome to watch, and I just want to say congrats. I appreciate the Forbes.

I saw they had a line they called me and I forget it was one of the dawns of digital media. I was gonna print it out and just wear it. It's like a T shirt. I really like that. That was that's ever been said about one the dawns of digital media. Maybe what's been one of the coolest moments You've had? Two craft going the box. Because I'm a dire Patriot and uh, like I'm a Jimmy Buffett guy, Like I'm talking high school. Put the shark fin on the super go to the Tweeter Center, watch it, and

he invite me over his house for lunch. So that was pretty surreal. Um, it takes a lot and actually I don't know why, but I like I always I always watched the Real estate shows. What's the other guy, Frederick? I saw him walking. I saw him walking. This is just funny. It's not one of the surreal but I saw him walking, and I don't want you not tell me. This is one of the greatest moments. It was one of the most surreal, though. I'm like, hey, can I

get a picture because I watched the show. He's the only man. He won't stop. He's like, yeah, but you gonna keep walking. He definitely had no idea who I was. When was this is probably like a year and a half, two years ago. It's the old office, and he like made me go back take it. I told everybody's like, I just saw this guy Frederick. He big time the funk on. It's like walking. But yeah, no, it's it's the it's just jiggered that it was. Um it's it's

the Jimmy Buffett or the Craft. I mean, there's always those surreal moments that have happened, but weirdly like we I went to um uh Kenny Chesney concert serious one the other day, and who is I'm sure you know

the name? Oh I got confused, but they they're like, hey, Randy Garber wants to come up and say hello to like I didn't named in Jugara, So I was like, okay, yeah, sure whatever brought up in Cindy Crawford was with them almost faithed, like just that's like an I because so weird moments like that where it's like what happened to my life? Where like they're coming up to say hello to me? Uh, I still appreciate that those are pretty

pretty surreal. Yea nuts. Do you think you'll ever turn what you're doing now maybe into you know, into your own venture, like investing in other companies, other digital media companies, other entrepreneurs, because you seem like I have a really really great knack for talent and now that bar stools with pen and I like when I look at you, I also see somebody that like what I just said, like you you know what's gonna work, and you just

have that intuition and ways that other people don't. Yeah, So this is something that a lot of people have said I'm full of ship on, but I have said once I'm done, which I think will be at the end of this pen deal, like I'll make sure like I still don't leave Penheim and dry and I'll be connected with it. But I could just pooh vanish and not work like everyone's like, no, you have that. No I think I could, So I don't have. I've made more than I ever dreamed. I I started Barcetool not

to be wealthy, to do something I enjoyed doing. If that meant sixties seventy grand a year working for myself happy, I honestly would have been happy. Um so I could sit on a couch, watch horse racing, bet on sports, golf a little bit and be very very happy. So that's what I say. Now Everyone's like, no chance, like you'll see, like you'll get the bug, But I honestly don't think I would. So I just want to kind of be done and go enjoy life. Yeah yeah, I

mean I haven't travel. I haven't done. It's like I've been busy almost NonStop since I started it. Have you traveled the world a lot? Like if Canada is like exotic for me? I haven't. I haven't traveled much. Pizza and like wants. I went to Italy once, yeah, for but the way I did it was not relaxing. It was like, uh, you know, pack your bags landing a place sleep that night, drive two more out. It was like packing much of it. Yeah, so it wasn't relaxing

at all. Um, but no, I really haven't traveled, got it? So you could do that. Yeah, there's a lot I could do. There's a lot I could do. Again, people say it's Bullshit's like you won't be able to do it. I think I will be able to do it. I've always said I was just a cloud of smoke and see that. Big Money Energy is hosted by me Ryan Sirhant. It's produced by Mike Coscarelli and Joe Loreesca, an executive

produced by Lindsay Hawkman. Find more podcasts like Big Money Energy on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.