Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy. I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora. Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media. Representation matters, and we're. Here to talk about it. Cheers, queers. What's on the big agenda today, Theora? Today we're back for another episode of Why Do We Love This Series? And today we'll be discussing Affair the series.
And it is an affair to remember. It's a long time coming, so this will be, this will not be a scene by scene breakdown like some of our other episodes. This will just be an overview of the things we liked about the the series specifically. I will say I at this point, I have read the novel now, so I will interject a couple of things from the novel. I'll let you know when I'm doing that. So you can skip ahead if you don't want to be spoiled.
I think they're worth comparing because it's it's interesting. I'm glad I read it, but we'll mostly be just talking about things we like. And then at the end, we'll talk about what our listeners liked about the show. And so thank you to everybody that participated because I forgot how good this show was until I started watching it. And I was like, Oh yeah, this show was really, really good. Like what a ride this was to watch it. Sure was. And you know what?
If there's anything you can say about Affair, there is one thing you cannot say that this show wasn't 1000% gay because. Oh yeah. This show was gay even when the characters. Didn't know it exactly for some reason. It's amazing. Well now that I've read the novel I know why. So I feel like the you really needed the novel to understand the playing in particular 'cause it's her story. I'm glad I read the novel. I wish I read it before I
watched the show honestly. So is there a more back story? At your in planes head, she's the protagonist. If you're interested in watching us react to all of affair and this was us watching it for the first time, no novels, no nothing. Become a Patreon member because it's all on there and it is entertaining and we're mostly confused during the show. So if you want to watch that, go watch that, yeah. Yeah, there's a few a few episodes on YouTube, sorry, and the full season on Face Real.
Yeah, the full episodes, the full season and for Discord too, like Harmony Secrets coming out soon or is in the works. So like there's a lot of chatter over there. So if you wanna follow Lock Me and Sonya's stuff, come on over to Discord. There's a whole bunch of talk a lot about them and Harmony Secret, which is their next series, which is gonna be so, so good. All right. So let's jump into why we love the series. I think the best place to start
is the very bold cold open. Like the initial scene you get for Affair. It's just Juan Viva and playing 5 seconds from fucking against a wall. That's how you meet them. And we don't even know who these people are. That's just how it starts. I will say this is exactly how the book starts. And so this was Chow. Chow wrote this.
And thank you, Chow, because truly, in this kind of show where the characters are going to be separated for like 13 years and it's just pining and back and forth and stuff, this was really necessary to set up everything and be like, don't worry, they get together. It's going to take a minute, but they're going to get together. So I think that this was really, really important to put here because everything you need to know is in the scene, like Juan Viva is a thirsty idiot.
Parentheses is affectionate and playing is torn between being a thirsty idiot and holding on to the one brain cell leg pass between them constantly, which is basically the scene where she's like, you're married, what are we doing? And the other thing is that that's intriguing and important is that in the opening scene, Juan Viva brings up the bet they made when they were kids. So it sets up a lot of things where you're just like, what happened?
How did we get here? So honestly, Ciao, like, hats off to you. You are a legend. Like this was a great way to start this story in general. But like in general, it's just very like intriguing way to start this this series. Like you're already invested. And I'm like, who are these people? How do we get here? What is this bet? Like? What the hell like?
Because we're in so full force in the clearness right from right away, I think it makes it even more not frustrating when you go back and you're like, you, you've been like this the whole time. And you, how do you not see that, where this is ending up? Like just yeah. Yeah, so like when we were watching this the first time, we were wondering how do they not know they're into each other? Like how, 'cause they're so gay with each other the whole time and it's like, how do you not know?
OK, at one point playing sees Juan in her bra, freaks out, but then also the next episode undresses her and gets her in the bathtub with her. That I don't screws. Her in the bathtub. Even after reading the novel, I still don't understand those back-to-back things, but I will say like I understand them more now that I've read the novel, which again is from Playing's point of view.
And like the show does read that way, that Playing is the main character because that's usually how Chow writes novels. It's 1 character and you're seeing everything from their point of view, including like their thoughts. So like their inner monologue, which is really important in this story more than the others or her other novels, honestly, because one of my frustrations with watching the show was like, there's a lot of back and forth with Playing.
And I'm like, it's like her actions are not matching. It's like there's a disconnect here. But when you're in her head, it makes a lot more sense why she's doing what she's doing. And I feel like, you know, that was a sacrifice of like putting this on screen and you didn't have voice overs. So like I I kind of get it now, but I will say shout out to Patreon member on our reactions at my under score peak who wrote hashtag justice for playing on
so many of our reactions. So 'cause I get it, 'cause I really wish I read the novel before I watched the show because really playing is just was just very frustrating to watch because Wand Viva is more consistent with the affection and then playing and goes back and forth a million times. And it they end up hurting each other because they're in this pattern of just like playing, giving it a little bit and then going back and then giving it and going back, giving and going
back. And they're like, Oh my God, like break the cycle 'cause this is getting like old real fast kind of thing. But when in the novel explains it a lot more so like when we first meet them in the when we so we like, obviously we have the cold open and we're like, they're adults and then we go back to when they're kids.
Where the story starts up is it's when playing first starts having romantic feelings about Wan Viva and every the moment that changed everything is the the bathtub scene you were talking about. And they in the novel, they bring up this bathtub scene, both of them, where that was like the big turning point where they're like, why am I turned on right now? Like that's basically what happened in the bathtub scene. And then they spent a lot of time being like, why do I feel like this?
So like, playing in her head describes what she's feeling as Juan is strange. She's like, I feel strange. Why do I feel strange and like I don't want her to know. I feel strange because she's my best friend and we basically like our siblings that grew up together. Like basically they're like I think 2 weeks apart in age and they were basically raised together. So they're kind of like they were raised like family and she's like I feel weird all of a sudden.
Why do I feel so weird towards her? And I can't let her know I feel weird. So that's why she's like get a boyfriend like please. Like maybe the the weird feelings will go away and like I, I don't know what's going on. So it's it's basically she's having romantic feelings for the first time. I didn't know what it was. And a similar thing happened to Juan in that bathtub scene, but it clicked for Juan Viva a lot faster. And she's like, oh, I'm romantically into her. I get it now.
But like playing was like, I don't understand what this is. This is scaring me. I can't think about this. Which like valid and there's a point in the novel where playing's like, I can't let her know, 'cause I could lose her. She's like the only person I have. So like, there's that dynamic always built into the best I'm in love with my best friend thing. We're like, if this goes wrong, I not only lose my love interest, I lose my best friend like so I understand where she's
coming from there. It just it doesn't read like that on screen all the time. So it was like it was really hard to interpret that if you don't have playing's thoughts where she's explaining this and truly playing is not a character that has friends. She's kind of like Big Nog in a way where she really doesn't have people to talk to.
So you don't get the exposition in the series where she's like confiding in a friend because the friend is Juan Viva and she can't have the conversation with her. So like, that's what kind of that's where I had a had a difficult time with the series because like playing's thoughts were gone and she didn't have anybody to talk out loud to. So like some of that stuff was just kind of like missing.
And in the novel, her and Juan Viva later on have conversations about this bathtub scene where they kind of talk about it. And so like they they get on the same page and like that wasn't in the series. So like the next position never happened. So I'm sorry if you were watching our reaction story, like why are you guys hating on playing? We weren't hating on playing. It was just like it was. It was like the same pattern over and over again with playing and like it got frustrating,
that's all. But. Over outsiders to the relationship, we're seeing what we're seeing and what we're seeing is a blank face from playing like that's all you see and it's just like nothing like no emotion. But it's that's the gay panics. That's what's on the outside, no matter what's happening on the inside. But there is, like you said, there's nothing to give us the inside thoughts.
It really would have benefited from her being like a like journaling her life or something to let us know anything that's going on in her mind. Yeah, I understand. Like they only had eight episodes, but her and Juan having a conversation about the bathtub scene like in the book would have been really good and helpful. But I understand like they didn't have a lot of time. They did a really good job sticking with the novel. Honestly, everybody did a really good job.
Like it was a really well done show. But like that conversation would be really helpful. But I will say with playing, it's not that you don't know she's into Wan Viva because like when nobody's looking, that's when she like gives in and that there's a lot of times when Wan's asleep and playing just staring at her and things like
that. So like you, you do get the sense that like she definitely has feelings for Wan, but she's just like fighting them a lot or just trying to be like, no, that's not what this is. That's not what this is. Like it can't be I'll lose my best friend. Like which is understandable. Like it really is like that's her person. And like imagine that you're like suddenly I feel strange about them and I don't understand why. And it's like, what the hell?
And also we see her lose the people that she thought were her friends right in the beginning where we pick up. Playing loses everybody. She loses her friends who were like, not since she uses the word in the novel, sincere friends were not sincere. They like talk shit behind her back. Then her parents die. And then she's in the custody of Juan, Viva's mom, who doesn't even like her. So again, she's like, I thought you cared about me, you raised me.
And now I find out behind my back you hate me. And then she's like, OK, cool. All I have left is Juan. And then we get to the scene where she's in Juan's bedroom looking for something and finds that Juan hid all her accomplishments. And she's like, who even are? She's like, I have nobody. I have nobody that tells me the truth, nobody that's sincere with me. And that's when she leaves. So like you, I understand that coming from playing. Why she was like, wow, my whole
life is a lie. Everybody I thought I could rely on, I can't. So fuck it, I got to start over. And she's a child at that point. Like, she's still a kid.
That's a lot. Who also hasn't had to really do much for themselves either because her family's well off she has multiple people taking care of her doesn't know how to do these things because like when Juan's mom takes her in, she's like anything you can do by yourself, you're going to have to start doing it and Juan's like this fish don't know how to do anything Don't worry, I'll do it for you. So it's it's just there's a lot going on for her.
It's just we don't. Yeah, I wish we got to know more. But that's why there is a book and a novel like you're supposed to. They complement each other. Yeah, I mean, yeah. So yeah, let's just keep going on the playing train and why was playing the way she is. OK, so I want to add another comment we got from Patreon on one of our on episode 5. Specifically, it was Ducksy wrote. I think the frustration that most people feel with playing back and forth is valid to a certain extent.
Yes, it's frustrating that we outwardly see Juan Juan's constant throwing of her affection bounce off of playing like it's nothing. But I think at this point in time, most people forget that playing has always been this way. Even more now after everything she's been through, more people sympathize with Juan because it's 13 years of intense yearning in an unwanted, an unfulfilling marriage for the girl who left you that it takes
priority in most people's minds. And they forget playing 13 years of literally living each day as if it's the last and sitting in her trauma the entire time. And she was a child when she left too, like she was a teenager. So yeah, that's super valid. It's true.
I think this might be a good time to bring up something that we've talked about during reaction episodes and it's the difference between playing in Juan in regards to the fight or flight response where Juan is very much fight, face things head on and playing is flight. Like just don't face it. Just if I can remove myself, maybe it won't affect me. Like she leaves the the classroom when the friends are, well she already left and then she overhears the friends.
Honestly, she does show fight in that moment because she does stand up to them, but she's very, she sees them again later and it's like run away, run away. Yeah, we, we brought this up when we were reacting. So like their instincts are polar opposites basically. Like they're very much extreme fight versus flight. And one is the much more obvious character. Like you said, she's fight. So that's why she literally
never gave up on playing. Even after playing left, she never gave up because she's in fight mode constantly. It's why she spent 13 years keeping every single promise she made to playing, like become a doctor, bike riding, marry this guy. And she never stopped looking for playing either. It's why she still didn't give up even when the sibling things come up, which we'll talk about that later. And then playing, it's worse than the novel. Playing is flight.
So yeah, sorry. So playing is flight. So basically she flees to preserve her friendship with Juan. Like I mentioned earlier, she's having these intense feelings for Juan. And she's like, if I act in the feelings, it's going to change things. So I'd rather just remove myself. And she keeps distancing herself from Juan, OK, Rather than confront it, she's like, we'll just keep distancing so things don't change. She leaves Juan's family. Why?
Because she doesn't want to be a burden to anybody. So instead of confronting the situation, she just leaves when she runs into it or ache again or whatever the the man she Eck, she leaves him. And then when she's like, oh, are we siblings immediately flight. She's like, I can't look at you, I can't be around you anymore. Leave. So playing keeps consistently put. Like our Patreon member said, playing has been like this the whole time.
She keeps putting distance between her and Juan on purpose playing, whereas Juan did everything in her power to eliminate the distance between them by fighting for this relationship. And that's pretty consistent over and over and over again until we get to the end of the series. I mean in episode 2 playing literally says I'm scared of facing problems. I don't want to end up stressed like that. Like, first of all, episode 2 is so much foreshadowing the entire show. It's insane.
But we can get into that in a little bit. So like, she's very open. She knows that she doesn't want to face things. She likes to ignore it, just go away or else. Like she knows it's going to affect her. And she's like, if I can do something so it doesn't affect me as much, which girl running away like then you have 13 years of not knowing what's going on, like. That that she avoids confrontation is what you're saying. Confrontation, basically that's not what she says, but like,
yes, that's. Mostly she doesn't want the. Confrontation and and even when she gets back with Juan it's this isn't necessarily fight or flight but playing messages Juan when OK so let's back up Juan buys playing a new phone because. When they're adults, yeah. Yeah, when they're adults and playing, it's like it's too nice. And then Juan tells her that she's only allowed to text her anyway, that that's a whole another thing we can talk about. But.
No, Juan. Playing says I love you over text and get then gets upset that Juan doesn't immediately text back in one second, which is ridiculous but love it. It's adorable. Relatable to Juan ends up coming to her room like where she is in the house and is like this isn't something you say over text. You say it face to face so you
know it's real. So Juan associates this flight response and a roundabout way of being like, you're not being real with me, so just look at me in my face and talk to me so I know what you're saying is real because I can't trust what I can't see. Yeah, and I will say that Juan also, like, understands Playing's flight nature, which is why she's so fucking patient and keeps trying over and over.
And she's like, I know you like me, I'm just trying to get you to admit it. But you're playing and playing in voids confrontation. So she's like you got to push to gain a little bit of ground and then like keep coming back. She's just her persistence wears her down eventually. I will say another thing I like about their dynamics specifically is how they make decisions is really interesting.
So if we go back to when they're children, there's a scene where plane's in her room and then Juan's mother comes in to be like, who is that boy? I saw try to get him with Juan basically and they're talking about Juan Viva and. The mom says basically like Juan doesn't know how to choose anything. She can't even make decisions on her own. So she comes to playing. Be like playing. You tell her to do it because
she listens to you. So basically like the only person that Juan listens to is playing, OK, even as a child. And Juan is so extreme in this mindset that she like literally doesn't listen to herself. Like the only reason she pays attention to Ick is because playing is like, go do it, where's one? If you listen to her talk about him, she's like, I don't even really like him. She's like, I feel. Indifferent she was fighting that the minute like she met him right No, like they.
She goes out on a date with him and playing there, and the minute playing leaves, mom's like, I'm done with the date. Like, I literally don't want to be there. Like so she does things because playing tells her to, OK. And so like, that is her decision making. Mom's like, what do I do with my life? What do you want me to be playing? Be a doctor, OK. And she just defers all the decision making to playing versus playing.
Who's the complete opposite. B let's herself be influenced by everybody except what she wants, right? Like playing people pleases to an extreme degree, while Juan people pleases just to play. OK, so it's really interesting. So like anytime like she like playing is like, yeah, I think I this is what I want. Somebody will come in like Juan's mother and be like, you don't want this. And then playing's like, I don't want that. Like she just goes with whatever people are telling her.
And that's what's, like, frustrating about why Juan gets so frustrated. She's like, why can't you just do what you want? Like why are you always letting other people influence you constantly? And it's like that causes a lot of problems with them because playing is very flighty with how she makes decisions and she's just easily influenced by other people. It's interesting that it's like that because the way they grew up, Juan's mom is the one always telling her that she's not good
enough. You would think that one would be the one trying to find validation from people and playing as parents with the most supportive parents ever. Seriously, I and she's still like trying to make sure
everybody's happy. So it's just very interesting in that way, especially with the nature versus nurture argument, because her nurture was very nurturing and made sure like she knew she was loved, she could do what she wanted, but it's just that still something in her that she just wanted to make sure that everyone's happy. Now it makes sense when she has to live with Juan's mom and Juan's dad because those people didn't like anything. So like but she was like this
before then. Yeah, In the novel, Juan basically explains it like playing has a big ego and that comes from like being wealthy and well off and things like that. So she definitely is very a confident person, but she's just easily influenced by other people and what they think of her. And they're like, this isn't the right thing to. This isn't what you should be doing. And playing will be like, yeah, OK. Like, you're right versus Juan. Like, the only validation I need
is from you. So I literally do not care what other people think. So you can see Juan, when she's younger, like does not stand up for herself as much. She just stands up for playing and just listens to playing. And what I love is when we get to the end of it all, basically like their situations completely shift. So like personally, I think the 13 year separation, although 13 years is a really long fucking time, let us be clear.
I think they needed separation 'cause they were so codependent that it was kind of like they couldn't fully grow. So they were kind of like these extreme people, right? And then they were apart. And then when they came back together, their dynamic totally shifted, like it was an inverse. And that's what they needed to like resolve all of this stuff.
So again, so like basically like Juan becomes much more confident in her decision and makes her own decisions, kind of like that's why you see her like standing up to her mother. And apparently that started when playing left. Like the day after playing left, she was like, fuck you mom. And like that was like, and her mom was like, where did this
come from? And like Juan completely changed and became the total opposite where she fought for things, stood up for herself versus just like going with like she would just like her mom when they were kids, her horrible mother would like talk down to Juan in front of everybody and Juan would just take it. But then when she loses playing, it's like none of this. I'm not taking any of your shit.
Like she totally changes. And the same thing with playing, like, playing instead of like, being very egotistical and like all this kind of stuff, she kind of like, becomes more empathetic. And there's a scene in the show where Juan's like, you're not the old playing anymore. Like the old playing when he kept fighting me and insisting she was right, but you're just, like, agreeing with me now.
That's weird. And like, they kind of needed that to, like, meet each other halfway, honestly, as adults. The the time apart, they not only flipped like the responses, but they flipped the scenarios too.
Because now, yeah, playing is the one living in poverty basically and not having any like having to do things because she needs to. And Juan is like becomes a doctor, is set with money, doesn't have to worry about things, can just start collecting things to give to play when she eventually sees her again, like buying the guitar and yeah, I know in the apartment. It's like playing has the fall from grace and then Juan rises into power. Like you're right, that's what I
mean. They're they're an inverse when they meet again, like into so many different ways, like absolutely, and that also will shift shifts their dynamic for sure. They're very interesting. They're like the. Psychology in this show though, is very interesting. And it's really interesting. Before we keep going on them though, can we go back to the parents and just get the parents out of the way?
Why did you have to give us the best mother of all time, playing mom only to take her away from us? It's so mean and it's pretty early on in the show too. It's so wrong 'cause it's like you're finally see a child being so supported and the like. Even to one, the one was their daughter. I love her. She's so cute. Playing, I just, she just. Feels better. So much that scene where Juan's mom is putting her down and say why would telling playing? Why would you want to be like her?
She there's nothing good about her basically And what playing's mom is like. There is so many good things about her. She does things better than playing. They balance each other out. There are things that they teach each other. They're good for each other. But Juan has a lot of great things that she's good at and the mom's just like. I don't see it. That's not what she says, but basically that. No, the way that Juan's mother put Juan down in front of Playing's family was despicable
like that was. Saying that she was comfortable to do that. Awful, She's defying. Her bosses there by now doing this. Wait a minute, like back up it. It doesn't make a lot of sense for her to do this honestly, because like, her motivation is that she thinks Juan is playing Dad's child, and she's upset because she thinks that as his child, Juan should also be raised as a Princess the way that playing is.
So like, her mother is jealous that Juan doesn't get all the same advantages and privilege that playing does. She's just the maid's daughter. So she's mad about that, but then like to take it out on Juan and say Juan, you're useless. Doesn't make any, but she should be. Building her up, being like you can do anything no matter what the world gives us. Or be like, hey, Juan, you're our situation could be worse. Maybe take advantage of this fancy school you're at like, you know what I mean?
Like instead of being like you're useless, Juan, like I'm just saying that's in front of them. It's not like playing parents for saying, oh, this girl just hangs around. We don't care about her. They cared about her. They treated her like a daughter, right? So it's not like she didn't have all this like no opportunities. She even if it ended up that they were sisters, they were basically being treated as sisters. They were being treated as
sisters. Yeah, But like, it doesn't make sense to her to be jealous and then be like, well, my daughter's useless. Well, if she's useless, why would the father give her more stuff? Like, wouldn't it be in your best interest to, like, talk up your daughter? You know what I mean? Like, this didn't make sense based on what her motivation
was. That's what the problem I have with it. The only thing in my head I could think is that maybe she liked playing more and she was jealous that playing wasn't hers and that she didn't. She thought that she got the short end. If they were sisters, I don't know. I don't know. I also, why wouldn't you like Juan? Come on. I love Juan. I love you, Juan Viva. She was doing amazing at school all by herself, Yeah. But she didn't tell anybody that. That's the thing. She didn't tell anybody.
She downplayed all of her accomplishments because she didn't want to be in. Cause like, again, here's the mother, like putting her up against playing and being like, my daughter sucks compared to you. And Juan was like, I don't want to be in competition with playing at all. So I'm just going to take myself out of the equation. So there is nothing to compare us to because Juan's always, like, I love when playing's
happy. And like, I'm not going to keep compete with her or, like, make our parents compare us because that's not what I want. We're good at different things. So therefore I'll just downplay everything that I do so that playing could just be on top. I'll be happy. Everyone will be happy. So she didn't tell her mom that, that she was actually really intelligent and, like, at the top of her class. And nobody knew that because she hid it. Yeah.
Yeah, since we're in the parents of it all, can we talk about episode 2, especially that car ride where Juan's mom playing's mom and play? Because this car ride I is probably one of my favorite scenes just because there's so much in it that literally tells you what's gonna happen in the show. So again, Juan's mom adamant that she doesn't see any good for her daughter in the future.
They're talking about like what she's going to be when she grows up. And she's like, oh, it doesn't matter what school she goes to or what she's going to do. She'll just be some useless office worker. First of all, what the hell Talk about justice for office workers. You play a role on Friday like everybody else. Wrong any? Fucking time that. Someone's like, oh, they'll just be this OK, well, what's wrong with being that? Somebody has to do that. It makes sense, and also they're
probably better off than you. Being the bitter maid? Yeah, probably. OK, but then Plang's mom also mentions that Plang's dad has been through crises before and always got through them. OK, well, we're going to be foreshadowing that he might not always do that. And that's when playing like, well, I don't like to face the, I don't want to work for him. I don't like to face problems. It's stress. I don't want to be stressed and all that. And then so that's what we'll go
into it later. I know. But Playing's mom brings up that, oh, she was hospitalized for a week years ago, and Juan's mom had to be the one to take care. Of the dad air quotes take. Care of and the guilty look you see on Wand's mom's face. I'm sure we got names for these people. I don't remember. It's fine. No, just yeah, yeah. OK, but you, you just see so
much in this scene. If you really pay attention of what's And also because Playing's mom is just amazing, you know that she's not gonna last. We can't have nice things. We can't have nice parents. You know, I'm pretty sure we did. This in the reaction video too. As soon as we saw that they were so sweet sort of playing. We're like. Fucked, they're fucked, they're going down. But yeah. So like, yeah, I was at this point when I was watching the series and I was like mom's mom
and playing's dad, definitely. Like who? Who's the affair? Like who's the affair really? Like, is it playing? Yeah. Is it the parents? Like, like who's the actual affair here? Because. That was a running thing. We're trying to figure out what the hell the affair was. So let's talk about that. Was there actually an affair that happened? Before we do that, I have a question.
Sure, because Playing's mom was like always sticking up for Juan and just loving the girls and saying that they're always good for each other. Do you think that Playing's mom knew the girls would end up together? I don't know because playing was so like distant with her feelings unless Juan and her were alone or Juan was asleep. So like, I don't know, playing's are delayed. I think just maybe seeing that they complement each other so well that maybe she didn't know, but she's like, if that
happened, they would be really. Good for each other. I don't think her mother would have cared if it came out that they were together, but I don't know that she like knew or suspected to be honest because playing was so cagey with her actual feelings. So I don't know. That's true, but I'm going to interrupt this video so we. Can what I transitioned to earlier?
So we can bring you some shout outs for my Chaos Crew over on Patreon. All right, so our chaos crew members on the big gay ride or die tier and above whoo are Dana W, Kate V, Angela Amix, Monzone, under score Multi, Natalia, Danny, Cassie M, Jill L, Regina B and Monet F. And our featured big gay supported members for this episode are Gorgeous Beauty, Jenny C and Angel. Thank you so much everyone for supporting us.
And as always, we really appreciate all of our chaos crew members and also everybody who just supports us in any way possible. Again, do all the things that we said in the beginning of this episode. Join the discord. Just share this episode. It helps more than you will ever know because we just want to share the joy of queer content. That is our mission. We, we all love it. We need more of it. It'll never be enough. And we need better representation too. So that's what we're here to
talk about. And Speaking of talking about it, let's try to figure out what you were transitioning to. I don't remember what I said when you changed. I'm so sorry. No, it's OK, I don't remember. It was something about hold on dad dying or was it parents dying? Was it it was something in the future? It's fine. We'll just move on to something else and maybe we'll get to it eventually. Something I want to talk about in the show is I like the use of the Gemini constellation.
So I before I read fair novel, I read the Pluto novel and in Pluto, this is not a spoiler, but like Chow really sticks to the themes of whatever it is she's writing about, which I appreciate about her. So it was very like she stuck with the Pluto metaphor, like really hammered that home. So I like this also use of like this space kind of thing she had going on. It wasn't as like harped on as much as like, oh, I remember what I was talking about.
I just remembered because it has to do with us. OK, forget about the Gemini compilation. My question was, was what happened between Juan Viva and playing an affair? So that was my question. And what I want to bring up is that in the novel and in the show, playing very playing brings up like, I don't want to be an affair. Like that was a a thing that she was really disgusted by. And so when she found out her dad had an affair, that was like heartbreaking.
And then when we meet her when she's an adult and like, she's like living on her own. And Juan, she really leaves the hospital. Juan comes and gets her. She's in this like weird relationship with this dude who will not leave her alone, who made her an affair because he already had a wife and a kid. And she's like, you didn't tell me any of this. Now I'm an affair. So like she was already like, why do people keep lying to me and making me the other person in their relationship basically.
So then she gets into the situation with Juan where Juan kind of does the same thing where she doesn't tell playing what's actually going on. And she's just like evades all the questions about Eric and her marriage and all that shit. And then when plays like, so you're trying to make me an affair and I don't want to be an affair. Like so my question was, was this even an affair between them when they actually like do get together? I'm pretty sure she like literally broke up with him
right? You tell me. Yeah. Like Juan broke up with Ike. Well, because I know Eck and her were still married. Like legally married and they were in the process of her being like I want a divorce and he refused to sign the divorce paper. Yeah, basically he refused, so she broke up with him. It's not an affair. I don't think this is an affair legally. Legally it's an affair. Ethically and morally, it's not. Right. He refused to accept their
situation. I agree. That's I was like, this isn't the affair. The affair is what happened with Juan FIFA's mom and planes dead. That was the affair, honestly. That almost ruined the whole show. Yes, that and Playing's boyfriend or whatever. Cheating on her also an affair. Yeah, so that was our conclusion during the reactions too. But even you thinking about it. So there's no way that this is an affair. They were not together. They weren't even living together.
It was just because one party decided that he had power and was not going to allow them to be. Divorced exactly exactly. I agree. I don't think this was actually a fair. I understand why playing was upset like that. All her feelings are valid because like on paper yes, but like really? Juan kept being like we are not together. I have done everything in my power to break up with him and he won't let it go. That's on him. Like it's not on me.
I didn't want to be here, right? She's like, why can't I just live my life? I had this person holding me back against my will. Like, how is that fair to me? And it's really not. Juan holds a bit of jealousy from for Big Nung because Big Nung actually got to run away on her wedding day and Juan secretly wanted to do that. Oh, no. Juan explicitly. Explicitly married him in the hopes that playing would find
out and come to the wedding. And they have a conversation in the novel where playing's like, OK, but like, that's insane. What if I showed up? What were you gonna do, end the wedding right then and there? And one's like, yeah, that was my plan. Like, literally, she says that that was her plan. Her play was to have playing show up and then be like, bye. And like, leave with playing. Like that was the reason that was very drastic.
Juan, Oh my God. And she's extreme like anyway, but yeah, that was actually the plan that she had girls committed. You can't can't fault her for that. OK, so the Gemini constellation, let's go back to that. OK, OK, I want to talk about this because I think it's it's very interesting. And like in in this in the in the story when Juan gets the tattoo, which was just in the series, by the way.
And I really like this. She they have the conversation about like what Gemini means to Juan and how it like represents them and all that kind of stuff. But like I kind of want to talk about like what is this consolation and how it kind of goes? There's other reads to it other than like what Juan explicitly says and like playing explicitly saying in the show. So like, what is the Gemini consolation? So it's a named after like a Greek myth of the twins, Castor and Pollux.
OK, so like again, twins. So like who does this sound like based on what the story? So just answer me, who does this sound like based on the story of Castor and Pollux? So they were twins with a shared life, Castor and Pollux. They were separated when Castor was killed in battle and then Pollux, the surviving brother decided to share his immortality with his brother so they can always be together. Who does? Who does that sound like to you? At in the show, right? Mm.
Hmm. That's that's Juan. Who's Juan? Oh, the person who gave up their immortality. Yeah. So Juan is Pollux and then Castor dies. So they're forcing a separation. So that's plan, right. OK. So to me they fit the Gemini myth of all of that. That's the very brief summary until they're until they're separated, right? But then they're reunited, OK. And then playing in wand completely change. And they kind of to me, I was like, OK, they don't fit the Gemini myth anymore.
So they got me thinking, what's another common myth that involves twins? And that's twin flames. So I was trying to think about that. I'm like, oh, maybe they're more like twin flames as adults. And this is Hindu mythology. So it's about the God, the gods, Shiva and Shakti. And basically what twin flames are is they're thought to be two distinct souls that are nevertheless bound together by a shared origin and destiny.
So like one I'm playing four and two weeks apart, grew up together and their destiny was like to be together forever basically. And the twin flame relationship is characterized by intensity, depth, and a profound sense of recognition and familiarity. It is that as if the two halves of the same hole have been separated and are now drawn irresistibly back together in order to achieve a higher state
of being. So like I think that they are the Gemini and then they become the twin flames later on. And you said Shiva and. Shiva and Shakti are the gods. I don't know what I'm about to know. OK. You don't know that because I'm like, does this mean that playing in Juan or going to end up having a kid later that they cut the face off and place it with an elephant? That's the Ganesh God. There's a whole story. I don't think so.
But anyway, I just thought that they they fit these like they fit into mythological tropes, the two of them, which I thought was really, really interesting. You know what? Chow's brain is very interesting. For sure. And Tara, like again, sticks with her themes and stuff, which is really, really interesting. Speaking of things that aren't interesting, but we should probably just get out of the way, Let's talk about Ick for a bit. But I don't like him. I guess what we. Crazy.
What are? Your thoughts on him? He's better on the show, I'll give you that. I'll give him that. Oh my God, whenever you say something's better in the show, it's never a good thing. He's more likable in the show, I'll say that. Well, I still don't like him, so that's. Not that's fair. I mean he is delusional with the fact that he will not let them get divorced and then to show up with a gun. That was insane. He needs to be committed. That was insane.
Insane. All right, I I have thoughts about him, like actual thoughts other than I wish he was gone. So I think with him like he was a lot like playing in a lot of ways because all he had in his life that was good was blonde. If you think about it. Like they did give him a back story in in the show where his family was a shit show that he couldn't escape, right? They treated him like trash. They're just like Juan. They're like, you're not good
enough. We don't know if we want to give you the family company because we don't think you're smart enough for it. Like, is that not Juan's family dynamic? Like. He's kind of like Juan in that situation. And then he finds Juan Viva, who he like clutches. He like basically latches onto forever because she's like escapism from this horrible home life that he has.
And I think that's why it was so hard for him to let Juan go because I don't think he knew who he was without her because or he felt like he had nothing, you know, because what the hell was his life? He was like trying to be the good son in a family that didn't show they actually gave a shit about him. They were all about reputation and like the company and he was a tool for them to maintain their status or whatever the hell. But they like never saw him as a person or seemed to care about
him. Remember, like when he was little and he was like, mom, can I have a guitar? I want to play music? And they're like, she like yelled at him as a child and left him crying in a mall. Like that was his life. So. That child actor. Oh my gosh. You know so but the. OK, that's fair. You know, but like with with him, the ultimate irony is that like he was unwilling to let go of Juan the same way Juan was
unwilling to let go of playing. So he in that regard, he's actually pretty similar to Juan Viva the way Juan like no matter how much rejection was faced at her, she's like no playing. He did the same thing. He's like, I don't care how much you reject me, Juan. So like. Bitch would have pulled a gun on anybody who tried to take playing too, so you know. One absolutely would have shot a bitch. What was smile on her face who
tried to take playing from her? You don't think that if she caught playing an ache at loan in the apartment, she would have tried to shoot him because she definitely. I will be honest, I did forget about the back story part and that is quite important because it does show you right. How to say? That. Dishumanize him. Yeah. And that was in the series only they humanized him in the show. They did not. I mean, in the novel Chao was like, he's the man that can't let it go.
And that was where his character ended. But in the context of the series, like he again is like, he acts like Juan a lot where he's very unwilling to let things go. OK. I want to talk about one of my favorite scenes. Though. I thought again, I forgot how good the show is and how funny it was in certain aspects. And one of my favorite scenes is when playing convinces Juan to go on that like dessert date with Eek when they're younger.
And this is the the scene where like Juan's like, OK, I think she's jealous. Let me like flirt with him to make her jealous. And it works. And playing's like, you don't need me for this anymore. And she like, leaves. And then three seconds after playing leaves, Juan literally runs after her and she's like, we're done now. I'm full, like, I don't want to be here. And they're in the mall and they start bantering for some reason. And then and then Juan's like,
well, I love you. And then playing's like, no, you don't. And Juan's like, I will literally shout it in the middle of this mall. And playing's like, no, you won't. And Juan's like, OK, and starts, like, shouting it and then playing like, like, tackle on people and be like, can you stop now? Let's leave. You're embarrassing. But I just love that, like, they try to challenge each other. And it's like, why would you try to challenge Juan? Like, she would never back down
from a challenge. She's like, I will absolutely yell this in the middle of a crowded mall. I don't care. It's so. Funny. Yeah, they do have a great dynamic with the with the buying the phone thing. That was so funny. Like 1 was fully serious, like you're only allowed to talk to me. I mean, obviously she's not that controlling, but playing no like takes this as the joke that it is and is like, you know, I have a life that's not you. I have to work. So first of all, her life is just work.
That's not why. Which granted, yes. That that is what it is. But then like why he's so upset by this and looks like what? But I mean it's a joke. But she is thinking that she's like but but where you work right now. I don't want you. I I don't want to. This is not allowed to text this number specifically. Multiple thing is like, OK, well, why did she buy her the phone? She's like, I bought you the phone so that I can get in contact with you so you don't run away and disappear on me
again. So like, here's a reliable cell phone so I know that you're not ghosting me and running away because like Juan is so traumatized by playing running away that like dictates a lot of her actions. When they get back together, she's like, I'm afraid you're going to flee again. Girl still wakes up at 4:00 AM every. Day we will get to her trauma in
a minute yes. So then that's why she gets in the phone and then when she's saying oh it's so you can only text me. She's serious where she's like I want what what she's saying by that is like I want you to pay more attention to me. That's basically what she's saying and the plane's like no, I'm not going to give you more attention because you got me this phone and then play bond's like what the fuck man, that's what she's mad she wants she
wants playing's attention. That's really what it is. But that's playing technically challenged her there and she won. Again, very different. Her personality didn't inverse, right? Juan is like didn't challenge her back. She just got sad and internal and just like kind of walked away from it, which is young Juan would challenge her right back. Right? There it is again. All right. Do you want to do Juan's PTSD? The 4:00 AM thing.
Sure, all right so this poor girl is not traumatized because she went to sleep with her best friend still being around and then she wakes up to her being gone and a letter that tells her what time she left. So now she is just plagued with having involuntarily needing to wake up at 4:00 AM every day like this. I wonder if she's ever gotten enough sleep because that's that's not good. Yeah, so in the novel, Juan explains why she wakes up at 4:00 AM, like a little bit more in depth.
So if you notice between the two of them, Juan minus the PTSD, before we get to the PTSD, Juan is like the early bird and then playing sleeps to noon. That's kind of like their dynamic. So like playing the night owl and then Juan is the early bird naturally, then this thing happens where playing left at 4:00 AM, wrote the letter, left the letter, and then Juan explains in the novel, I woke up at 5:30 in the morning, I didn't see you.
Then I took a shower. I came out, I noticed your guitar was missing and then Juan like ran for like 2 miles trying to find playing at like 6:00 in the morning. And the reason she wakes up at 4:00 AM is she's still so guilty. She's like, if I she feels guilty that she slept through it, she's like, if I had woken up at 4, AMI would have caught you and then you wouldn't have left. So it's that fear of playing leaving that wakes her up at 4:00 AM. So she doesn't miss playing running away.
That's why she gets triggered at 4:00 AM. She felt guilty about sleeping girls. Yes it's horrible. Like this is legitimate PTSD like that Vaughn has. Like legitimate. It's not related to the 4:00 AM thing, but like playing as parents for a lot, basically her parents because she didn't have parents that loved her so she lost them just like playing lost them. And now playing is the only one left. So add that to like, she's like, I really got to be there, that she's all I have.
Well, it's like that's why I like Chow wrote it to be like Juan didn't smile again after playing like that was for happiness or happiness is not gone. And basically Juan just became this like self-sufficient person. She got a scholarship to go to school. She's like fuck my parents. She basically told her parents to fuck off the next day because she's like, this is your fault because you guys are assholes. She heard it, she left and she like never forgave them for
that. And she just like, yeah, like was very self-sufficient and the only person that really supported her was eek, really. He was there and she never fully appreciated the fact he was there until after his accident. Later, like his the gunshot thing when she's reflecting with him, that's when it kind of came together that he really did was like her friend through all of that shit. And he really did support her in the way that she would have supported playing. Where were this reversed?
So, yeah, Juan just like flipped the switch and was like, that was it. So I thought it was really poet. And also like, throughout the novel, too, there's other things that happen to Juan. And she's like, it's weird. It happened at 4:00 AM, too. Like when she's training to be a doctor, she's like, the first patient I ever lost died in the operating room at 4:00 AM. She's like, it was really weird that that happened. I have a theory that that was Song, but we'll get to that later.
I think it's OK. It's not confirmed, but I think that's what happened. That doesn't go with our first theory if you are, but anyway. No 'cause like we'll get into Big dog later, but like, I think that's what happened. So like all these things keep happening to Juan at 4:00 AM.
So I love the poetry of it to be like what heals ultimately heals her PTSD is when her and like playing finally get together and they like make memories of them, like being one and coming together like literally at 4:00 AM. And so I love that that's the healing process was like playing left and then playing they became each others at like 4:00 AM and like that closes the loop kind of thing and helps her with
the PTSD. And then again we see that relapse when playing leaves again and like wands back in the pattern of the PTSD. Like it just I feel so bad for her. That's a lot. That's. She's reliving that trauma every single day. It's not something that like comes around every once in a while that like you have to be triggered like 4:00 AM. Happens every single day. And but to be fair to playing, like playing is living in
squalor every single day. And there's a constant reminder that like, this is my life now every single day. So like, yeah, they both like went through it for the 13 years, but I think ultimately they became stronger people. And so that when they met, they were able to, like, be on equal footing with each other where they weren't before, right. Because Juan was hiding things and then playing was delusional a bit, you know, like, it just, it didn't work.
And there was a power imbalance because of their social status and because all that changed it just I think it was good for them to be separated so they could grow despite the trauma and that made them stronger for it. Granted 13 years is a long fucking time and they really went through it, but they were stronger people and a better couple because of it honestly. True. OK, one more thing. We'll end this with Big Nog, but one more thing I want to bring up is playing song.
Not song. The person, the actual music that she made playing song. Wait, so now I'll just let you go. Go ahead. All right, I just had a rant. So I like the song because it's, again, it's it's one of those things like it's a through line throughout the show, throughout the the story. Chow likes doing that. And what we've talked about a lot and what we see a lot in the show is Juan keeping all these promises to playing. But like, this was a promise that playing made Juan write me a song.
And it comes out of episode 3 and Juan's like, hey, write me a song that's just for me and playing. And I love this scene because playing isn't sure she can because she's like, I've never written a song about a friend. It's like OK, playing. And Juan's like, well, you know, don't think of she's like, don't think about that. Don't think about labels. She's like, just write what you feel, OK? And she says if it's love, say
it's love. OK, So what's happening here is that Juan, when they were younger and once Juan came to the realization of what she was feeling was romantic towards playing, basically she admits in the novel she's like, I did flirt with you when we were younger because I wasn't sure if this was one sided. And then you would react to me and I was like, OK, this isn't 1 sided.
So like at this stage when they're having this conversation, Juan knows the feelings aren't one sided, but she understands Playing's pattern of behavior and understands that playing is scared. So she's trying to, by asking for the song, she's trying to coax playing into admitting her feelings without admitting them. OK. Because Juan needs validation, right? She's like, listen, I just need confirmation, OK, that this is OK.
And in the scene when Juan's asking her this, like playing, kudos to Sonia because playing does a ton of micro expressions in the scene to indicate that, like, the feelings are mutual. And Juan is like 2 two feet away from her face. And she's like, yeah, I see all this. Yeah, that's what I thought. So that Juan's like, OK, hey,
feelings are happening. So she like, takes Playing's face and, like, forces eye contact and tells her, fine, I will not push you on this, but promise me you'll you'll write it one day, right? And then playing's like, OK, so I'll say something else that I found out in the novel that was really cute. So playing in Thai apparently needs music and the way she got her nickname.
Was apparently when she was a baby she would cry all the time and the only way she would stop crying is when her dad would play music so she he nicknamed her playing. So what I love about this write me a song like this is how playing can express herself. She's one of those like artists who like isn't great with words, but like she can express it through the music and the song she started playing at the piano before Juan Viva comes and asks her for the song becomes Juan
song. But like she was sitting in her feelings for Juan and then created this new song. So it's like, again, it's her outlet to express how she feels without saying it. So Juan who knows her really well is like, OK, since you can't tell me, show me through music basically, and I'll pick up on it. And when I find interesting is like OK in this moment. Like playing does start writing the song when they're kids and because she has Juan Viva in her life and she stops writing it
when they're separated. So like the muse for all of this is Juan. So she writes it when she has Juan. She doesn't write it when she doesn't have one. Then when they're reunited, she starts writing it again because the it's because the feelings are there without Juan. The feelings are not there. Whatever whatsoever. And I love, I love, love, love. When they are reunited later and Juan asks about the song and
she's like, hey, can I hear it? And Juan says, I've been waiting 13 years to hear it. And I love this line because what Juan is really telling playing is she's been waiting 13 years for playing to tell Juan Viva how she feels because that's why she asked her to write the song. So it indicating as if we didn't know that like Juan's feelings haven't changed, but she's like playing, I've been waiting 13 years for you to tell me you love me.
That's basically what she's saying in this in this scene. And I do love how this plays the full circle thing with the song is when like in the series where playing is like playing it professionally and like Juan is there. And that's when we get like the proposal and it's just it's really cute because it like kind of like the ultimate way of telling me how you feel started there. And it ended with a let's get married thing, which is really, really sweet. That is really cute.
That's really cute. But didn't she not even get to hear first? Didn't playing play it for the hotel? I think she tried it out with the hotel because it didn't have lyrics yet. That was the thing she had like the melody but not the lyrics. OK, that's true. Yeah, so the song wasn't fully
finished until the very end. I I'm sure Juan Viva heard it before because like this is different from the book where like Juan has heard the song before and like this is the first time playing was playing it professionally, like the full song. And it will say the title of the song is called your song. And I will bring this up when we talk about Pluto because your song by playing is a song that I and May bond over, which is really cute.
That's adorable. I know it's so cute, something that wasn't cute, but that was weird. Why did these two have an obsession with bras? Can we just do that? Why were they obsessed with bras, these two? Yeah, that was a lot of conversations. Were they obsessed with bras? Because they were just always thinking about each other in. Bras Like why did playing have to buy Juan Viva a new bra and then put it on Juan Viva herself in a platonic way?
Oh well. Because it wasn't platonic way and there was nothing straight about that. No, it was why like, Oh my God, can we just talk about playing child playing like young playing how she already mastered like the one handed removing of the bra, like she's already smooth as fuck with taking off other women's bras and she's like, this is platonic. I'm like girl, what? Where'd you learn that playing? You're taking it off of another
person. What I can? Think of right now is that they like share a bed and she just like is bored in the middle of the night and just like practices it like bras and like and Juan just is a very heavy sleeper. First of all, you guys don't need to be sleeping in her bras. That's fine not to do that. Anyway, they had a bra obsession. They have a boob obsession in the in the novel.
I won't get into that. But anyway, they were obsessed with bras and it was really funny to watch them keep doing this and be like, we're friends. I'm like, are you? This was insane. Yeah, especially because she freaks out seeing her in the bra. I don't get that. And then in the next scene they take your bra off. Like what are you doing playing? It seems like that scene was a little out of character in general because they're very. Close right?
Why would she freak freak out? They've taken baths together as children, so I don't know if the. Bath is the reason why things start clicking for both of them, mainly for one. But like it changes then that scene doesn't make sense because she would have been more comfortable seeing that than being in the bath. OK, but the thing that, OK, here's the thing about the bathtub. We'll just get into this, the thing that changes everything. So like, why are they in the
bathtub? Juan had a long day or whatever and playing's like, I'll give you a massage. So they come in the bathtub and then playing, massaging Juan and Juan makes noises and it's the noises that do it for playing. And she's like, what is this noise she's making? And like, and Juan later we find out like from Juan Viva, she's like, I can feel your heart racing against my back. So I knew you were having feelings. So like it clicks for both of them in this scene.
And playing literally is up all night replaying Juan's noises in her mind and could not sleep. And yeah, she was that was the term where she said what is happening to me? Like, why can't I get this noise out of my head? And then she's like, Juan, never make that noise again. So then Juan obviously teases playing, but like, it's the wands. I like that noise. And playing was like Oh my God, why can't I sleep? That's hilarious. That's what it was.
That's amazing. OK, Speaking of amazing, shout out to our Patreon member Pooja, who wrote on episode 8. Our reaction? I only watched this episode for Big Nog, so let's talk about Big Nog 'cause I was waiting. Fiora has been waiting for. I was waiting for this British to show up and cause drama and she did and I love her for that. Just a little sad it's not 5 but I mean I get it. Still sad. What thoughts do you have about Big Nong in the show? I mean, she's big nong.
Big nong is big nong no matter who plays big nong. So it's just it's interesting to see the dynamic between Juan and her now that it's not. Big Nong's show. Ah, you're muted. I would say that this was how we get Big Nong in the show is the most big Nong plot of all times because how do we get her? Big Nong texts Juan out of nowhere and it's like, hey, I'm going to be in Bangkok tomorrow, Meet me somewhere like that is after going through blank with
like a fine tooth comb. That is literally how this bitch operates and how she texts people out of nowhere and she's like, meet me when it's convenient. For me. At least the shows are consistent with the characters. Such a big thing to do. I was like, the book is even funnier. How this goes. It's Oh my God, the book is so much funnier. OK, so let's get into let's get it. Let's get into big Nong and how we kind of get to this thing because why is she here?
Basically like Juan and playing or having a jealousy contest with each other that's revolving around men that work with playing. So in order to really show playing what jealousy is, Juan's like, hey, why don't I bring the hottest woman in the world to come meet me whom Plain thinks is my ex, even though that's not what's happening here. And once Playing is with Big Nung, she understands what jealousy is. She's like, I understand now I
understand. And the conversation with Big Nung is so fucking funny, 'cause plain's like, well, she's like, well, Juan. She said. Something where she's like, I can't believe want like Juan, you're here this and that. And then she's like, well, you're just with somebody. And then big nugs like I'm not just somebody bitch. I'm big nug. It's she like gets up off the couch and like. I'm not anybody. I'm big nug.
Big nung bitch. She's like, this is ML Sippicorn, like she's royalty anyway, so fucking funny. But how we get her in the novel is really, really funny. So And in the novel, Juan and playing do have the conversation about Big Nung because like they have a pet basically. So let's back up to how Juan and Big Nung meet because it's not what I thought. So Juan's explaining this to playing one night. And she's like, well, I met her
at the hospital. She was there for a family member two years ago, which makes me think Song and Juan was a doctor there at the time and like met her and she's like, she was real because she explains Big Nun was like real elegant and graceful and wealthy looking. So like Big Nun was still in the palace and had money at that time. And she meets her and then she's like, then I met her two years after and the Isle of Lesbos, she's painting caricatures. I like met her on the street,
okay? She's gonna ask like, do we know the timeline? Could have been the grand ma'am, but no, no, she's. Painting song. This is this is song. And then she's like, I met her there. You like overcharged me for picture. I'm like, anyway, it was the whole thing. It's like, anyway, no one was so
funny and like she said. So we got to talking and then basically like hooked up that night, which big Nog's like you remind me of my sister Sam. And then they hook up later and like, no, what is wrong with you? And apparently Nung's like reasoning was like, well, my sister has a girlfriend. So like Sam was with Mon at the time and she's like, and she's happy.
So like, I'm going to try it. That was the rationale and Juan Viva, this rationale was like, well, I don't feel anything towards men, so maybe it's not playing. I'm into women. So then that's why they hook up and then at the end they're like. OK, so the argument can be made that this happens when the gap aisle Lesbos happens. Oh yeah, I think so. I think it's around that time. It's before little Nung shows up
for sure. But like, yeah, so they meet when she's in her starving artist phase, hook up, and then they're like, yeah, this isn't for me. Then when we get to the affair scene, Nung is back, I guess, left the Isle of Luzzbos and is back in Bangkok for some reason. So I wonder this is when the Grand Man stuff is happening. She comes back and then it's like, hey, meet me. And then she's like, why don't we meet?
This is Nung. She's like, why don't we meet at the coffee shop at the hospital so you can you can treat me. Juan's like, aren't you rich? And Nung's and Nung's like, not anymore, bitch, you're the doctor. You buy me shit. And basically she just meets up with Juan to get free stuff. This is the most big Nung thing ever. And Juan's like, I guess I'll
meet up with you. Sure. And so they meet up. I guess I'll buy you shit I. Guess and basically, yeah, basically wands like I guess I'll just like keep buying her shit to make playing jealous. And then Nung figures this out at some point. So they like go to the coffee shop, meet up or whatever. Then they end up like at a restaurant. Nung picks it. She picks this high end restaurant. She's like, this is on yuan, buys a bunch of champagne, everything on the menu like Nung
was like. Oh my gosh, oh she's the worst. It feels respect for people though. She's such a moocher and this is her starving artist phase. So she's like, Juan, you're going to, I'm doing you a favor, so therefore you're going to buy me all the stuff. So Oh my God, that's like basically they're they're at, I don't even know dinner what this was. And playing is blowing up Juan's phone and Juan is not answering. So playing does not show up. And see, see Big Nung at the
restaurant. Basically, she blows up Juan's phone and then Juan comes home and she's drunk and Big Nung takes her home. And then playing meets Big Nung and it's just like, who are you? And like, Oh my God. And like Nung is just being Nung the whole time, like baiting, playing, because she has the conversation with mom and she's like, you're trying to make your partner jealous, right? And then Big Nung asks, is it a man or a woman?
Because the reaction's going to be different depending on the gender. And it's really funny. And then she's like, it's a woman. She's like, OK, cool. So she's going to be threatened by me. Got it. So then Nung knows how to go into this and be like, I'm threatening as fuck. You better. You better love this one right here. And then they have the conversation where Juan's like, well, she's going to be jealous because you're my ex and nuns.
Nung's like, I'm not your ex. And Juan's like, I know that, but she thinks you are because like, they're just like, there's like a mutual hookup where they're like, whatever, we'll stay friends. And I'm pretty sure this is the incident where Nung's like, you owe me Juan Viva. And then when we get into blank like later, they do the reverse thing where Nung's like, Juan, I need you to make my girlfriend
jealous. And in the novel wands in the car with little with playing and she's like, you're going to get me in trouble, though, and Nung's like you fucking owe me. I did it for you. I'm pretty sure. Like that's how we get that scene because like it starts here and Nung's like you owe me and it's really cute because this is the scene where it's like it Wan vivas the point of view character. So then like then obviously like what happens in the show plays out.
We're playing a super jealous and she's like, Oh yeah, well, I'm going to do the one thing Nung can't do and like, have sex with you basically. And then in Juan's brain, she's like, it was worth every penny. Nung was so expensive. This. Favorite Gosh so expensive girl fucking one meal you don't get the whole damn venue. But is that not the most big numb thing ever? Or she's always like. I'll go out with like. For. Food and then at the table with
all the plays around. Well, I guess we can't finish all of this. I'll take it together. Yeah, it was the most big numb thing I've ever fucking seen. Ever. I'm like, something never changed. I'm glad she never changes something. That everybody is good at. Since all these books are produced by different studios, they are very accurate. Someone is definitely watching each one to like, not copy it, but make sure that it can go in
the same universe. Because the fact that we're able to piece these with between the books and then the shows and put it in their timelines is really nice. I would say of the Chow novels that I've read, gap blank affair link the closest together. Yeah, because like Juan actually knew Nong like they actually knew each other. Whereas like Pluto is connected through playing, but it's not because I may know playing. It's like she's a policy like
mentioned exactly and then like. Like these are kind of like spin offs. Yeah. So we're kind of getting further and further away from like the core group and like us is connected because Pam is Big Nung's dentist. So like there really is no friendship thing there. Oh. My gosh, wait a minute, she has to deal with Big Nung as a client? Yeah, I, I don't really remember it being in the novel, but like, or it doesn't, it didn't stick with my brain, but like, that's how it's connected.
So like. Yeah, they're not. They're connected, but not really.
Connected they're in the same universe and people kind of know each other through things but like of of people who are like super connected like obviously Sam and Dong are sisters and then Juan actually knows big Nung pretty well and they stay friends so like having her show up is just I loved it that was so funny It was great and like using big Nung to make like jealous was great because like she and threatening person she's royalty She's she's gorgeous like she's we'll take you down
with her words like big Nog, she's big Nog she's the best so yeah that was great but overall like I really liked affair. It was it was hard to watch the first time just because I felt like they were just trapped in this pet this cycle and I was like, something's kind of breaking a cycle. But I get it. Like I think it overall, like when you're really looking at it and having the context from the
novel really did help. I really wish I read it before I watched it because it really does add a lot. I think they did a lot in eight episodes. I think that Sonia and Luck me have incredible chemistry with each other and there's just they don't go for it. Like they really nailed the yearning. I will give them that. Like in their their sex scene, they really, really nailed the I've been pining for you for 13
years. Like they nailed it like in every way because like it was very desperate and just like the way they played it, which is 13 years of pent up sexual frustration. Like they really nailed it in that scene because like that's intense yearning is all I'm saying. Great job. Guys. OK. All right. Anything else you'd like to say about Affair? I I don't think so. All right, so we'll just leave off with a couple of listener comments we got and they both kind of say the same thing.
So if we have Hallis from Tiktok who says why do you like affair? Why do you love it? Because it's LMSY and it's like, yes, those two are fucking awesome. And then on YouTube we have Vera Lang 399 who wrote First and foremost LMS wise Acting. Agreed #2 The story, I've watched this countless times and I'm not done yet. It's like, yeah, it's very rewatchable. It's in a it's really a good story and I really enjoy it.
There's a lot of depth to it and it's a pretty, I like shouted really good at writing the story. It's it's got good like bookending and a lot into it that I really liked as a novel. I thought it worked really, really well and the show stuck to the novel despite being only
8 episodes. It did a good job of like sticking with it and it made some changes that like humanized certain characters that didn't have back stories or they made certain changes to like further the story along that I thought we're good. It did not like that they're bad choices, but like that worked for the adaptation. So overall. For this show, with eight episodes, they definitely use their time. Well, correct, they definitely did. Like every single second counted.
Yep, I zip has a lot in. Nothing was too slow. No, it was paced very nicely as a series. Because if it was ever slow, something was going to happen at the end of that. Scene. Yeah, for sure, for sure. But I do love. I've watched this countless times and I'm not done yet. It's like nor. Should you be nor should you be like keep watching it's a great show and I'm very much looking forward to like their future projects together. Harmony secrets going to be another one where it's like am I
under am I not under her? So they they do that really well so like you know what bring on it's going to be freaking fantastic. Let us know if you're going to be watching that. Yeah, also. Let us know. I, I, I figured out a random question to ask you for this episode. Do it. If you could change one small thing in this show, what would you change and how would that affect the entire story? So like, what's the butterfly effect that you would create for this show?
More big nung. If you would, you would have introduced big nung from maybe like maybe they would have known. Kids, listen, I want, I want the big Nung scene from the book where you have more from Juan and just big Nung being absolutely ridiculous. And that scene where she's like it's on her credit card, like give me more food. I want that scene of just her being herself because like, she's fucking hilarious. That's, I mean, that's fair. Yes, that's what I want.
And the butterfly effect is that it would be hilarious. The butterfly effect is that, well, no, getting that scene doesn't change. Anything. And I want the end and the end just in their lives again. I want when they're leaving and playing is like pulling Juan Vivo away and like Juan Vivo looks back and big nun's like you owe me. I want that. So then it sets up what happens to blank. Yeah, that's what. I want that would have been great to see actually. You owe me one.
Just yelling in the middle of a restaurant and people are just like, what the hell is happening? They're so obnoxious. I mean, if it's from the book, in the book it happened in front of like playing in Juan's apartment complex, but still. Because like big Nun drops her off and then playing is like pacing outside because she's like, what the fuck is Juan? And then like this goddess of a woman comes out carrying Juan and plays like, I can carry her, I got it. And big nun's like, you're so
tiny. What do you mean? Pretty sure you can't carry her? Like it's really funny. Their bantering is hilarious in the book. I'm picturing playing, showing up at the restaurant and then dragging Juan out. And they know he's like, wait, did you pay the check? Juan says yes. And she's like, all right, cool. I was the one after she literally just paid the check. But. You have a flying fuck. That's basically what happened in the show where she's like drinks around you, Juan.
Thanks anyway. So that was the fear of the series. Hope you guys enjoyed this. We'll be back next time to talk about who knows what. Let us know what you want to hear from us. We'll we'll do it. How about that? And until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus. And get it up all over the place. Bye. Bye. And with that, we've been big gay energy. Thank you for listening. We'd really appreciate it if you downloaded this episode and left us a review.
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