The Lesbiana's Guide to Catholic School by Sonora Reyes | Big Gay Book Club

Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy. I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora. Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media. Representation matters, and we're. Here to talk about it. Cheers, queers. What's on the big gay agenda today? Fiora today is book club. I always forget to celebrate. In today's episode, we will be discussing The Lesbianist Guide to Catholic School by Sonora Reyes. If you haven't read this book and don't want to be spoiled, that's OK.

In the beginning of the episode, we will be giving our spoiler free review, so feel free to stick around for that portion. And if you're intrigued, go grab a crappie and read it. Then come back, because afterwards we will be spoiling the book and giving. But don't worry, we'll like give the spoiler warning when we get there. So just smear. Did she say crappie? Who knows what I said. It's been a long day.

It's a long day coming, yes. So we have a shout out to do for this episode because we were not in charge of picking this book club. We picked which month it was in, but we actually got an anonymous e-mail asking us to cover this book and through my detective skills. I Their name is Charlie. Thank you, CC. At you, Yes. Thank you so much for giving us this recommendation. It was a great book, and sometimes we may not choose books that you want us to cover that we like, really need to read.

So it's always great to get recommendations, yeah. So if you have a recommendation, let us know. Leave it in the comment. E-mail us anonymously. Whatever you want to do, don't don't be anonymous though. Just just sign your name. You know, I, Charlie and I, emailed back and forth a little bit. Anyway, we we've read our Big Gay Book Club book the month before the episode releases. No, we read. We read. OK, so there's the thing.

There's the word read of multiple times here, but it's pronounced differently and that's why English is. Stupid English is really fucking stupid. OK, that's why I paused. I was like, which read is it? And I didn't read the full sentence. Then I showed up. OK, anyway, we read our Big Gay Book Club book the month before the episode releases and discuss it in our Discord channel where we read. Yes, for example, we read this book during the month of March.

Join our Discord to participate in future book clubs. We'll even include your discussion points when we film the episode and totally give you the credit because you deserve all of it. Also join the Discord to connect with other queers and just have fun and talk about all the queerness. We can just talk about being queer in general, just in general. And there's a lot of people in there who just love books.

So, like, if you just want to talk about books, period, like, that's probably our most active channel, people talking about books. So yeah, let us know. And 'cause we're always looking for more Rex to read outside of the podcast, so, like, yeah, come join us. Yeah, and if you're watching this podcast, be sure to subscribe to the channel. Give this video a like. Leave a comment below and if you're just listening, make sure to try and leave a review on that podcast platform.

Download the episode or share do all the things because that helps us spread the joy of queer content. And apart from our episodes, go check out our merch on big gayenergypod.com My camera is going up. What? Are you doing with your? Hands. No, I don't know. I'm being Theora. OK. I'm trying to remember. I'm trying not to read the scripted part Thea I was in the zone. I'm sorry. OK, go to our Patreon where you can get full reaction videos, exclusive content, and be in

charge of what we cover next. Like there's so much going on in Patreon and you need to go check it out because any reaction videos that we do will be full length over there. If you have a book club and you wanted to get us immediately, it can be pushed up in our book club. That's that's a new perk that I just thought of right now. Patreon, Patreon, you have all the power, All of it.

Literally. OK, Nope. Just Yep. Lastly, stay connected with us on all social media platforms by following at Big Gay Energy Pod and just share us and like us. I'm going to read the last sentence so I we can get on with it. Your interactions be the world to us, and these actions contribute to our ongoing celebration of queer media and advocacy for better representation. Yes. So we'll work on that later.

Yes, but bottom line, come join us for Virtual Book Club on in Discord. It's pretty chill. Like we read it and talk about it a month before we film. We announce it on social media on the 1st of the month in Discord and on social media, like what the book is going to be. So you have time to get a copy and check it out. But really like you can read at your own pace and jump in there at any time.

We have a thread dedicated to the book so you can just jump in at any time and like give your thoughts if like you know that month is not good for you or whatever. But we like hearing about what other people think about books, because, you know, that gives a greater discussion of the queer media and that is why we are here so. And that just shows you how much better theor is at speaking. I wrote that intro very roughly and before Caitlin read it, as

my brain spit that stuff out. So thank you, Caitlin. Yay. Speaking of good queer representation and good queer media, let's jump into our book club book this month, which was The Lesbian's Guide to Catholic School. So synopsis of the book. Caitlin, would you like to tell the good people at home what this was about? In a non spoilery way? I hope it's not. Spoilery 'cause this is what was on Google. Oh dear, you always go to my Google. Well, yeah, I'm not creative,

that's true. What did Google say? Google says that this book is about 16 year old Yamulet Flores. I'm sure I'm saying that very Americanly prefers to be known for her killer eyeliner, not for being one of the only Mexican kids at her new, mostly white, very rich Catholic school. But at least here, no one knows she's gay, and Yami intends to keep it that way. After being outed by her crush and ex best friend before transferring to Slate and Catholic, Yami has new

priorities. Keep her brother out of trouble, make her mom proud, and most importantly, don't fall in love. Granted, she's never been great at any of those things, but that's a problem for future Yami. The thing is, it's hard to fake being straight when Beau, the only openly queer girl at school, is so annoyingly perfect and smart and talented and cute. So cute. Either way, Yami isn't going to make the same mistake again.

If word got back to her mom, she could face a lot worse than rejection, so she'll have to start asking WWSGD What would a straight girl do? This sounds like the author wrote it. It's very much in their voice. I'm pretty sure it's the. Back of the book. It's just the back of the. Book. There we go. I got it from somewhere, but it was from Google. OK, so that was the what the back of the book slash Google says the book is about. I'm good at reading stuff that's scripted, you know.

That is why we write outlines. So that's what we have things to say. OK now host of the podcast in three words explain what you your review of the book or how you describe the book for me. My spoiler for your review is Repression Hurts Everyone, I'm. Trying to say representation. That would not be the good one. Repression. Repression is repression, not repression. Representation loves. Everybody elevates everyone there. That's the word. All right. So mine is strength from within.

And then I mine, mine took. Mine took a bit of a a personal note, vicariously healing and then in parentheses. My childhood, I felt like this was super, like I followed along. Aside from going to Catholic school, I did not. But I did grow up Catholic. So like the book followed along my like high school path, I guess. So healing your inner child. I did go to Catholic school. What a wild time.

OK, so now that we've reviewed it, last thing we're gonna do is give our rating for How much big gay energy did this book Have? So this is my. Last time we're doing this part because it flips now. After that anyway. It does, so I'm printing it here. So I would say this book has so much big gay energy that there isn't room for lesbian Jesus 'cause you gotta leave room. Have you ever heard that The Catholic? Thing leave room for. Jesus. There isn't room for lesbian Jesus.

It's so gay. This book has so much big gay energy that it makes you feel seen. I can't. Compete with any of those I don't have. Like I I agree so much with the there's so much there isn't room for lesbian Jesus. I think that just encapsulates, encapsulates maybe the the whole thing. I think that's. Perfect. I got it. I got it. There's so much. They get energy. That lesbian Jesus raised in 3 minutes and not three days. Hydrate for that. I forgot my water. I don't have water either.

Oh my God, you guys are the worst, OK? All right, now I'm just kidding. All right, everyone. So that was our spoiler for your review of the book. If you're intrigued, pause this, go read it, and then come back. Now we're going to dive into all the spoilers of the things that we like and want to talk about from this book. So the first thing I want to talk about is basically the opening of the book and this theme that I noticed throughout So I my, I don't know, just my webcam.

Anyway, something I really enjoyed about the book 'cause it was clearly very well written. Like Sonora clearly is a very good writer. Like, so good that I am not of the age demographic that this book is written for. And usually, like, I struggle reading YA now because it's just, I don't relate to it. It's I'm not of the demographic,

I'm older in my life now. But the way it was written, it was written very like, witty, cleverly, like a good command of just like figurative language, not just like literal language. So, like for me, it was mentally engaging despite being about like a young a person in high school, 'cause I struggle with that media a lot. I just was like, I don't.

Care about this? But OK, something that really grasped me on like the very first page was the shattered mirror, which is used as a metaphor throughout the book really. And I just love the way it opens with this really powerful imagery. Cause like, without even reading this, I didn't read the synopsis, I just jumped into the book. And just by having this, I knew what the book was gonna be about. Like just by having this 'cause I was like, oh, we're using, we're using imagery.

All right, let's do it. Let's go. So usually in media, a mirror is used to represent like a character's like inner self, like the self that they hide from the world. So it started with Yami, who's the point of view, character, and a shattered mirror. So to me that told me that the main character, Yami, is fracturing their personality 'cause that's usually what that means, and there's a loss of control of this person over

their life. And Yami says something in her inner monologue about this, where she says I like this new reflection better, like talking about her reflection of the shattered mirror. It's cracked enough that I'm hardly recognizable, splintered in all the right places. I did that. And so to me, that set the tone for, like, what this book was gonna be about.

It's about Yami being on this journey of self discovery and reflection, and she's in a place where she feels like she's losing control of who she is and perhaps going through some kind of metamorphosis. On page 25, she also says something where she says inner monologue.

There's something unsettling about seeing your whole refraction looking back at you, and I love that cause like, yeah, there's something weird about like seeing yourself like fully and like confronting who you are in all of that sense. And for Yami, that's not just external. It's very much an internal, like coming, coming of who who am I? Kind of like process. And that can be really, really hard to do, like in a very, in a wholly truthful way, especially

for somebody so young. So like again, I like that. Like the way the author used this, like imagery of a of a mirror and like reflections shattered and whole to kind of show like how Yami feels about herself. And I just thought that was really powerful. And I I love that. And it keeps the mirrors keep

coming throughout the book. And after the third act of the book, the the author comes back to this whole mirror image with, after Caesar was hospitalized, Yami's brother, it's on page 317 where Yami says, I think internally I want to take punching the mirror back the first time just so I can do it now. And then in italicize it says you should have been there, 'cause, like she's at this point is like really guilty over the fact that she wasn't there for

her brother and she didn't. She was wrapped up in herself and didn't fully see what was going on with him. But also because her mom kept saying you should have been there, which was. Wrong. Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely.

But anyway, to me, this was like a moment of major reflection for Yami. Like in the third act where she she's bringing back the the whole shattering of the mirror thing because she's, she's thinking back on her choices, how she's wrapped up in her own head, her own trauma, so much that, like, she missed all the signs of, like, what was going on with Caesar, Like, 'cause he clearly wasn't OK from, like the

beginning of the book. Like, if you go back and read it, you're like, yeah, all the signs are kind of there. But Yami's still, like, wrapped up in Yami and and confronting her inner self that she doesn't see, like, what's going on in

front of her. And so I love that in this major moment of like spiraling that she has, that she thinks of smashing the mirror all over again, 'cause she's like, I it's a it's like, wow, like I was trying to like go on this journey for like 2/3 of the book to figure out who I am and figure out my shit. And what was it all for? Like, you know, I just, it was very powerful. And I just I love the way this book was written in summary. I want to go back quickly to when you said that she smashed

the mirror to feel in control. And I think part of it is that she needs to feel control because she can't control who she's attracted to. And I mean, in her situation, she doesn't want to be gay, obviously. Like, this isn't something you choose. You have to choose to be OK with it. But there's so much in her life that is unknown, and she can't control people's reactions to it. She can't control, she can't control the people she's around

either. And I feel very connected with her in the fact that you just want something to be because of you. Yeah, for sure. And and like, that's why I like, it really struck me like the the shattered mirror right in the beginning, 'cause I'm like, here's a child who feels out of control with their life. Like, that was the intriguing point for me. Like, well, why does this child feel out of control?

And yeah, like you said, Caitlin, it's all these external factors that are at odds with who she's starting to come to terms with, like who she is. And so it just it was it very much just it was very powerful imagery and really, like really just tells you what the book is about. And I just loved it a lot. I also have a comment about her brother. You can.

I clocked it right away in that conversation when he said that to something about Eileen might have the quote later, but that life's not what if there is no tomorrow or something like that? You could tell right away and I I thought it was gonna be even darker. Luckily, he's still with us and I'm really glad that that ended like that. We we've already know gays in this book. Yeah, gays were harmed but not ended in the making of this

book. Yeah, I don't know where this fits, but Speaking of harmed, those people like driving the truck off the road to try and pretend to hit run them over, What the? Hell, Oh my God, that was so fucked. I like those are children also. Yeah, doing that. It's so messed up. How does? Anyone raise to think that that's OK? I'm sure they were good Christians at heart or some shit. There's no, there's no love like Christian hate, right? That's the same. I have not heard that saying,

but I'm sure it is one. I was also raised Catholic, so it's OK Got some religious drama. Yeah, that was absolutely disgusting for a number of reasons for the the racism of it all that was there.

And yeah, and we mentioned, I mentioned this off screen to Caitlin. But like the intersectionality of this book is the other thing that I really like about it, the fact that they are Mexican American and there have that experience and that was very prominent in the book and I think I have a section on that later but. There's a lot of representation that matters.

Exactly. Yeah. OK, so the you mentioned in the synopsis about Yami and her best friend now ex best friend, that's like the catalyst for the beginning of her kind of spiraling. So what is your take on Bianca and Yami's relationship? Bianca's a bitch, but I I really wanted more from the storyline overall. I I had high hopes, but I think it's better the way it happened. So I'm actually very proud of Yami because she fully did not let Bianca back in her life.

There was a couple times where she tried, like Bianca tried to come back into Yami's life and the way she did it was so backhanded. So, I mean, everyone here probably should have read the book if you're listening to this, but in case you didn't, basically Bianca got so weird and started hating Yami when Yami actually told her that she was gay. And so now they no longer speak. And she she's like the typical. Catholic Oh, that's wrong. You should not be. You should be with a man that

mentality. And from the the very beginning, I was like, well, she's closeted, right? So we're gonna get this like whole thing where she's like, oh, really? I just had feelings for you too. And I didn't know how to reciprocate them. We did not. It's. I believe that relationship ends with Yami being like, no bye

bitch, you're out of my life. Not literally, but in the sense I even though I think she's closeted and that was like the catalyst for this, I it still doesn't mean that Yami has to let her back in because I feel like with special with stories like that, it's always on the other person to make them feel like it's OK and accept them. But Yami is taking control back by being able to show, not show, to choose who is in her life. And I'm just very proud of Yami for like the ending.

Cause Bianca isn't the only person who's no longer in her life, but we will get into that in a little bit. Bianca also made Yami feel small, like she wasn't even a person, and that is a terrible quality. In a friend. On page 73 it says it all makes sense now, she said. This is what Bianca is saying. Oh no, I'm sorry, it is not. This is an internal monologue, so Yami is thinking it all makes sense now, she said.

She told me it creeped her out, that if only she had known, she would have avoided all of it, all of me. As if she wouldn't have cried on my shoulder when her parents got divorced or let me cry on hers when my dad got deported. As if none of it mattered. Because I'm gay. And I think this is everybody's worst fear when they're queer and they're afraid to tell their best friends. They're like, I don't want her to be weirded out by the friendly things we've done and Bianca.

The way Bianca reacted made her feel so unsafe that even seeing her at work, she quits. And her flight response was so real in that moment. And I feel like it's relatable because if someone makes you feel that scared and uncomfortable, obviously you don't want to be there. And so much that she quit a job that she needed because she needed to pay her tuition. I would like to piggyback off of something you said Caitlin, because I I also was reading Bianca. I don't know.

I've read their relationship differently. I was reading. I definitely read Bianca as closeted and projecting all of her internalized homophobia onto Bianca onto Yami. Sorry, because there's a scene where Yami comes to Bianca's house and is talking to her like after all of the fuckery happened. And Yami notes that, oh, Bianca's still wearing the friendship bracelet. So, like, to me it showed that, like, Bianca's not over Yami in a way. She's still like, holding on to her.

And it's not until, like, Bianca looks back to like the other people in the house that she starts like performing and doing the like homophobic stuff. So to me, it seems like she's one of those people who's closeted and is going to stay closeted because the, like you said, part of this is, part of being queer is is learning to accept your queerness.

And like to me, she strikes me as the character that's not going to accept it, that is too burdened by like societal expectations and like how other people want her to behave and she's afraid and is just a coward that's not gonna ever, like, win that battle. So to me, that's kind of like how I was reading Bianca. So like when Bianca was like reaching out to Yami again later, like it almost it felt like, like, I don't know, maybe she was she was trying to heal

herself somehow. But like to your point, like Yami owes her nothing. So, like we didn't get that story line where they were like, oh, they figure their shit out together. Like Yami's just like, no, let's cut out the toxicity and move on.

And that's totally fine. So, like, I didn't fully read Bianca as like a bitch, per SE. It was just like this was somebody who is in the same situation and is responding to it in a completely different way that like, does happen, unfortunately, like and the way Yami handled herself, like, was totally within her rights to to do that. And yeah, it it's just, it's not like the storyline. I I was expecting what you were expecting.

So, like, it was refreshing to read the story that went in a different direction in terms of like their friendship and really their relationship wasn't the focus. It was the catalyst for really Yami's journey that she goes on like it's the shattering of the mirror.

And like, it forces Yami to really reflect and then figure out who she is. Because like a lot of the book is Yami like trying to hide who she is, but then ultimately comes to accept it by like seeing other people who live their truth and like, figuring her stuff out. So yeah, I think a lot of Bianca was just projection like so. This is very reminiscent of Ben and Charlie, yes. Oh, my God. Yeah. This is Ben from Heart Stopper 100%. Yeah. This is a closet case that was

gonna stay in the closet. Like, yeah, absolutely. That's why I was like, I don't think she's a bitch. I think this is just all projection and this is a scared child. Yeah, but just like handle things in like kind of a bitchy way. I mean, people do this though, like I'm not thinking it's good or bad, like it's not great, but like, I get why she's doing it. Like I can. It's like see the character's point of view. Cause like that was my take on the character, like it's a scared child.

At the very least she is following others opinions without forming any her own. Correct. Or she just feels like that's safer and 'cause like the way she like says all those things to Yami where she was like, well, like now I'm grossed out with all of our memories and stuff that sounds like other people's thoughts getting into her head. And she's just like performing the way other people want her to perform.

Because like, I don't know that that's what I just, I feel like she's brainwashed and is just going because it's safe and it's easier to hide rather than the like be out and proud kind of thing, which is so Yami's the stronger character, really. It's just that she's like a foil in a way to be like, that could have been you if you stayed closeted, basically, and had to perform as a closeted person with like a lot of internalized

homophobia and self hatred. Yeah, So it's gonna be a shitty life for her, so. Yeah, I don't see things getting until she can be confident on her own, if ever. Some people don't. Some people never get there though, and like that's the tragedy of it. That was like Ben and heart stopper. Like Ben will never get there and neither will Bianca. I don't think so. That's really sad. Yeah. Well, now you really just. Humanized her. You're welcome.

She's just a person. OK, so a friendship that I do like is Yami and Bo. Bo is so cool, OK? We first meet Beau and I believe they're talking about abortion and debating it in class, 'cause that's what they chose to debate on. Yeah, well, they didn't choose. The teacher was like let. Me take a. Controversial topic? Yeah. Really, it's the teacher's fault. It is. But basically, Beau was being a bad ass. And then it gave Yami a little confidence to say what was on her mind as well.

And so just the whole beginning it was they were perfect for each other. They Yami needed someone like Bo in her life to show her it's OK to be who you are. Because Bo was. Representation matters. In case we didn't say it already, by seeing Bo just fully being themself out in public like at the beginning, Yami could would never. She's literally trying to hide herself and one of my favorite things that she says in this school. Hold on, let me get to the

quote. This time I'll be stealthy, gay like Kristen Stewart. And it just made me laugh. Kristen Stewart was not. Stealthy. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. I did not know that Kristen Stewart was gay. That's 'cause you're bad at subtext, yes. Also terrible gaydar. That's another That's 'cause you're bad at subtext, that's. OK. We're working on it. We're working on it's. It's a work progress has gotten better. Yes, we're still not there still. Working on it.

Anyway, so that was really cool. And I one of my favorite things about Yami and this story is like such a fool, like blurting out I'm straight and she gave Annex and she doesn't do it just once. She does it multiple times and I love that this is like the same way she comes out to multiple people, like, but I'm gay. Like, she just blurts it now. And in some ways that's probably a better way to do it. Just get it out and over with, get it out, rip the Band-Aid

off. But one of the things that in the whole storyline for them is that Yami gets drunk at a party and she finally is not thinking and she starts texting people and coming out. Do it on your own time. Don't do, don't drink alcohol, friends. If you need to drink alcohol, you are not ready. Salmon. Juan, I was just thinking of that. OK, they. Were ready. They're just dumb. How did they not die, GAIL? That that's a gap reference, by the way. Go check out those discussion

episodes. I believe that discussion and episode for #8. Yeah it would be 8 anyway. So what in her coming out tour which she only texts? For the tour, that's a good way to put it. It's a drunk, coming out tour. That would be a good, right? Good. Tour name That's one era Taylor. Swift next era Drunk coming out. That would be amazing. Sold out immediately. I mean either, no. Anyway, it'll be any. Era. Let's be real. Anyway, back to Yami.

Back to Yami's tour. So she texts her dad that she's gay and I believe she tells him not to tell her mom 'cause that, but that's a whole nother side with Bo. She calls Bo luckily or not so luckily Bo does not answer. So Yami's leaving this long ass voicemail and then basically telling her that she's gay and she likes her. I believe she says she likes her, right? Probably I don't. Remember the exact. I don't remember this exact word. That's. The gist of it.

But yeah, and so that's how she comes out to Bo. But for some reason, Bo doesn't get notifications about voicemails and did not listen to Yami's voicemail. But I really, really wish you heard it because it would have gotten us closer to the end sooner. Not that I wanted the book to end, I just wanted them to go. It was a super slow burp. It was. But Yami also needed to figure herself out as well.

Like she needed to be comfortable in her own skin and in the mirror, if you would say before. Yeah, she needed to look at her full refraction and be OK with that. And, like, it just took her a long time. And that's like realistic. It does take a while, like, especially in her environment, Like, that's part of it. So, like, you brought up, like with Beau and Yami, the beginning was like the debate,

right? And so to like see somebody like Beau being so like unabashedly themselves in Catholic school, like, it's not just that Beau is being like herself. It's like in the environment that, like, hate somebody like Bo. You know everything about her, like the the fact that she's queer, the fact that she's like a leftist, A feminist, all the stuff that Catholic school is trying to suppress and like, get you not to be. Like, she's the antithesis of Catholic school, basically.

So like, there's an insane amount of confidence and bravery that goes into Bo being who she is in the environment they're stuck in. So I think all of that is what really helps Yami the most. Like on her own personal journey of acceptance, like it is really hard. But then she goes home and she has the threat of being at home with like a possibly homophobic parent. And so like she can't ever escape. Like the external factors that are saying don't be yourself.

Like, even though she sees somebody like, both. So like, and I think that's part of like, the slow burn with the relationship and Yami coming to an acceptance. It's like external forces that Yami can't can't escape, like, and she's actively trying to. That's why she's trying to save up all this money. She's like, I need to get into a

safe environment. I don't feel safe to even entertain being myself, you know, 'cause like if you look at Bo's environment, Bo goes home and Bo is in a loving environment. So like, Bo can do whatever the hell she wants at school, 'cause then she can escape to a safe place after that. Where's Yami? Like is not safe no matter what. So like, I think that's that's part of why it takes Yami much, much longer than Bo, yes. That that is fair. Side note, I love Bo's parents.

At least the dad. They're cute. They they try so hard. Yeah, just very accepting, giving Yami the family that she needs in this time. I have many things to say about Bo's family, but yes. Yes, we'll, we'll get there. So I, on the other hand, would not be surprised if Bo actually did listen to the voicemail 'cause if I had gotten a voicemail and then somebody told me not to listen to it, boy, would I listen to it and then not just just tell them I never did like.

I you would you would act out later when Bo is trying to listen to it and Yami's trying to grab the phone away from Bo, 'cause that did happen later and she like, yeah. Well, and I might. Go along with that who? Yeah, yeah. Listen, I I am too nosy to like I I've done. I've done that before. People tell me not to like, did you.

I said I didn't read things when I absolutely did absolutely read them, and then said I didn't read them or listen to it or or whatever so that they could tell me at a different point. But I've absolutely done this exact thing before, so I would not be. That would eat away at my conscience too much. Like I'd be like, oh, I lied to them about this. And then that's all I would think about when I'm with them or thinking about them. So I could never do that. Caitlyn's pure at heart.

I try. I just. Like knowing things. Not pure enough for Catholic school though. Sorry, that was good. Good one? Well, I mean, in some cases I am, in others not so much. But yeah, that easily could have been the plot line, it just it didn't read like that from Bo's point of view. No, I feel like both wouldn't have like been trying to and then have Yami wrestle out of. Right. That seemed like to me Red. Like Bo did not listen to that message.

Because if really Bo could have been like if she did listen to it be like, OK fine, I won't listen to it knowing what's in it. Like maybe Yami's just not ready, but no, like this one. She's like, why did you wrestle this out of my hand? Right. I was like, that was a weird reaction. I would, yeah. If someone did, that would be like what was in that message. Right, exactly. I don't know. That's just that's just my interpretation, I think. I don't know.

It doesn't matter either way. All right, so the moral story is, don't send Cole messages if you don't want Cole to read them. Cole's going to read them anyway. Probably. Unless you can delete it before I can get there. Caitlin, if anyone could do it, it's you. All right, I have no transition into this. So other theme that I liked in the book was, again, one of the aspects I really enjoyed was the intersectionality of the book.

And so one of the themes that kept cropping up with both Yami and Bo was feeling disconnected from cultural roots. So I'm gonna compare and contrast Yami and Bo for this 'cause I thought their perspectives on this was interesting and their like life experiences in this aspect was really interesting. So with Yami, basically she's

like a first generation. I think American is kind of how you would categorize Yami, like her parents are Mexican immigrants and then she's, you know, now an American, Mexican American basically. So she's like the first generation to be get the American label, I guess put it that way. And so from her, the reason she got here to America is because her family willingly immigrated to seek a quote, better life. So that's going to distinguish

Beau's journey a little bit. In that journey we get the father who's come, who comes up multiple times throughout this book and he basically was deported back to like quote the old country because of racism basically. And he like the way from from Yami's point of view, at least towards the in the first like 2/3 of the book, her dad was like her biggest connection to her like Mexican slash

indigenous heritage. So because her father is gone, I mean she's still like face times and stuff, but it's not the same thing as having your parent physically there, you know. So she feels this loss since her mom is like from her perspective, mom is too busy because mom is making money to keep everybody alive. It's not mom's fault. So mom is quote too busy to connect with their cultural like roots on like a regular basis. And so she feels this like.

Heritage of hers, it's like constantly slipping away because they're not practicing like their their culture consistently from Yami's point of view kind of in the beginning so but it despite like the like not having her dad there to constantly like bring culture into the house. Yami is really fortunate to live in a part of town that is ethnically homogeneous. So the way we were shown that is through like Don Violetta, right, that that the woman that keeps coming up.

And the reason I think why that that is in there is because it's showing that like Yami lives in a community of like other Mexican immigrants basically. And so because she's in that, like epicenter of her culture, like the cultural practices are still there and she is practicing them. She just doesn't realize she's doing it. So the fact that like when Don Violeta is like grieving the loss of her husband, the whole community keeps her going.

Like there's there's constantly like little mentions of like this family brought over food or this family is watching over her. And that's a very cultural thing like to watch out for other members of your like roots basically it's like a big family, right. And so like she is connected to her, her culture, but it's a the culture that's now implanted in America. And like I relate to that 'cause I I'm Italian American, I grew up in an Italian, American, like homogeneous area of New York

where I used to live. So it's very much like that. It's like you're you're still in the culture, but you're in like the American version of the culture. So like, which which is gonna be like very different when you go to bow. So like really like Yami is still part of her culture. It's just a new version of that, basically. So if you contrast that with Beau, Beau was adopted, right? So Beau immigrated without her consent, basically, which like contrast Yami, whose family

willingly came here. So she was. She's brought up in a culture like America. She's not connected with any of this. And so, like, her parents feel this guilt, like love them. I love this perspective from Beau. It was so fantastic. Where Beau's like I feel like they're trying to like immerse me in in my culture, but they don't know anything about it. So it's this very like disjointed way I'm being exposed.

That doesn't mean anything versus like Yami who lives like amongst her own people kind of in a way. And so is like so much in her own culture, she doesn't realize she's in it. So Bo Bo does not live in an ethnically, oh, I guess she kind of maybe does live in an ethnically homogeneous area. She lives in the rich white people part of town, which is not ethnically homogeneous.

It's just skin tone homogeneous. So it's like this hyper individualistic, like society is what she lives in where it's like my castle, my rules, fuck everybody else. Like that's basically the area that she lives in. So like people don't take care of each other as you take care of the people in your own household. So just her parents is kind of all she has.

So for Bo, it's really like, really sad that, like, the only time that she ever feels like she can authentically connect with her own cultural roots is when she goes to Chinese restaurants, 'cause, like, that's that is a there her, her heritage is there in a, in a, like, a very, like, authentic way by the people who own the restaurant and things like that.

So like, that's the only time she ever, like, feels connected and, like, learns about it, which is like Yan Yi won point makes fun of her for, like, knowing so much about fish. And then she's like, yeah, because I I learned about all the fish at the restaurant and, like, I feel connected to China because of this. So one of the aspects I love about their friendship is that because Bo has no like epicenter for her heritage other than restaurants.

Basically she lives vicariously through Yami and Yami's connection to her culture. Cause Yami at one point takes her to like, oh God, I forgot what it was like a performance art thing that was like everyone was called I I apologize. It was some dance. Right performance thing. And it was like a very like Mexican, I think not indigenous

with a Mexican performance. And so it was just Yami being like seamlessly like fitting into her own culture and like showing Bo like this is what my culture is like. And Bo just had this like a beautiful experience of doing that and was like wow, I really wish I could do that with like my Chinese like culture as well. But it's like harder cause like, I mean, Bo, if you move out to San Francisco, you can't find that out here, 'cause like there's it.

It's an ethnic, there's ethnically homogeneous areas and there's a lot of like we do, a lot of like. You have all the nationality you. Are all of the world. In one city. Yeah, so, like, you can you can get that experience. But I love it. Like sorry, go ahead.

No, I just wanted to say that I felt so bad for Beau in that moment, 'cause she was so jealous of Yami, seeing how comfortable she is with her culture and connecting with it, and how like, her parents were the only white people at that event. Yeah, and it just really showed. Her what? She needed for herself to connect with her culture. Yeah, that. And I love that This gives Beau the courage to tell her parents how she feels because like, that's awkward and weird, right?

To, like, have that kind of conversation with your parents who are like, they're trying, but it's like, they're wrong. Stop trying. She's like, you need to stop doing this. So yeah, yeah. So it's basically like she her sentiment is like, she feels like she's in a household with Chinese artifacts that hold no personal connection to her. And she so she's like, I get what you're trying to do, but, like, this actually isn't helping me. So I love that she, like, had

that conversation with them. I thought that was really important. And I love that that was depicted in the book. So I like the contrast between the two when it came to their culture and how they felt connected and disconnected from it. It's also really telling that Yami was able to figure that out just by seeing all the decorations in the house. Be like is Bo OK with this? Because it is. It's a very superficial way to engage with your culture.

Like, I feel like they could have done better with taking Bo to events, engaging with people who are from China and making sure that she understood where she came from, rather than just having Chinese decorations in the house, 'cause that doesn't teach you shit. Yeah, and and it goes to show you that, like when you're ignorant of something you can do harm, 'cause like, I mean, why would they know any of that? Like that was not her parents experience whatsoever so.

Like they did. You see the goodness in that that they tried to begin with. It was just not the right approach. Right. It wasn't what Bo actually needed. So like, unfortunately, like, they can't see that. So like, it had to come from Bo to be like, this isn't what I need. So as a child to say that to your adopted parents who, like, try to give you the world, that's hard to do. And again, Bo was somebody who is very courageous. So, like, she did get there, you

know? But yeah, that was, that was a big maturity moment that was really great with Bo. I really liked it a lot. And she also had Yami come with her in the beginning, so So that also showed Yami that someone cares that much about her to have her be there for Bo. Like she was her rock in a way. So it was just that someone was appreciating her and needing her.

Where it was a give and take relationship, where a lot of Bo's not Bo Yami's relationship with her family was take like she was trying to take care of everybody. And I will talk more about that later because it's a huge thing. But I guess the word is symbiotic. I believe the relationship between Yami and Bo. And yeah, they understood each other in a way that other people

couldn't understand them. Yeah. Precisely. And I think them both being like women of color, like, definitely had a lot to do with that. For sure. And them not being the same ethnicity, they were able to teach each other about their own. I mean, Beau still learn about her culture herself, but I think it's really cool and interesting that Beau wasn't Mexican. So they were They understood each other, but they could still learn together. Yeah, no, I definitely love that so, so much.

That's a really good point. Was it the Bailey Folklorico? Yes. Probably, yeah. OK. I found. Yeah, it was basically like a Mexican folk dance. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I couldn't remember if it was singing or just dancing, so that's why I didn't guess. It's it's a dance of Mexican pride. It's about the music, the colors and the dance, according to the book.

Cool. All right, so one aspect of the book that I really liked too, or there's a scene where I think it was Bo. Was it? No, it was a yami. Riami basically is forced to do the Pledge of Allegiance, and it's on page 33. And I think in her, in her monologue, she says I stand, but I don't say the words. It's the closest thing to protesting I can do without causing a scene. And in that moment, she recounts when her father was deported and how she stopped doing the pledge.

After that quote, liberty and justice for all never applied to people like us. So she, like protest, didn't really do the Pledge of Allegiance, even though if you're not from America, they force us to do this 'cause we're authoritarian even though they say we're not. So they literally force children to say the Pledge of Allegiance, which is so weird. So, question for all of you, did you ever stop doing, quote or quote, protest the Pledge of

Allegiance like Yami did? So I wanna say something about this. IA 100% did like protest. Like I would just, I would stand up because I also didn't want to like cause a scene or like have people say stuff about it. But like in my own own way, like I would just refuse to say God in the pride of allegiance. Like I just would not do that. I would say some of the other stuff half the time. Other times I would just either 'cause you're I. Don't know. This was like, I don't know.

Middle school, I think. And I would just. Then all I have. I I would just like Mao. Like you learn like watermelon is supposed to be like what looks like you're saying words. So I would say stuff like that and or like Mao that and I just yeah, so IA 100% protested. Did you Caitlin? I did not, mostly because all of it's just words to me. It's just words that you're saying, like it doesn't mean anything in my brain.

In in another episode, I talked about how I have struggled with history because it just seems like stories and not like something that actually happened. Yeah, they're just words that I was forced to say it. I don't think anything of them. It doesn't mean anything to me, but also so I went to Catholic school, we had to say a prayer and then we went into the Pledge of Allegiance.

So in my because I've been was doing that since preschool, preschool to 4th grade and some of 5th grade, they both get combined in my head. So I forget if it's our father, yeah it goes. So if you start our father, it will go into the Pledge of Allegiance for me as I say it, because we said our father 1st and then we said the Pledge of Allegiance. So so did it like did you finish? The one. The one. No. Did it? No. It's like, how far did you get? And then so is our Father who

are. Thank you, our Father who art in heaven. Hallowed be thy name. Like you can come down one nation under God. So it goes from that. I just too. I was right into it. God, I love how you. Kept the God pardon from the Pledge of Allegiance. I think that's what combined them in the in the brain and but like as a child that's I've just grown up with thinking like that so another one and I just wanted to add that antidote because also again I'm a terrible Catholic kid because I always

failed religion. That's the only thing. That's the only test I ever failed was the first Test of religion every single year. Was it the same test? No. It was just until they had to start singing. Then I understood more because I don't pay attention unless I get to sing, apparently. But also I I got really good at sitting there and doing nothing because I am also really good at watching TV in my head, 'cause that's how I got through church. I would My favorite day for this

is a tangent. My favorite day for church was Palm Sunday and all I would do is take everybody's palm leaves that was in my family and just make those crosses and that's all I and then I would rip them into smaller and smaller pieces. Yeah, I wanted to keep ripping them. I had crosses that were like this big because it was just like I had broken one or something, and I was just. That's all I did. That was my favorite day 'cause

I actually got to do something. It's probably sacrilege just to keep tearing them, but I I just. I went for the communion. I wanted my wine and bread. I never wafer that that nobody liked, but it was sweet to me. And the wine, I would take a huge gulp of it. There wouldn't be much left after me. Yeah, well 'cause they think that giving wine to 2nd graders is fine in America. Oh yeah, 'cause that's after First Communion. Depending on which religion you are, cause some people do give

grape juice. Yeah, ours and after COVID, nothing at all. Anyway. To circle back to the pledge, I also I also protested that because like when George W Bush got elected, because I was like, wow, America is just elected a complete moron and I can't with this place. Oh my God. I also thought there's an age gap. I forgot. I was like, when was Bush? You remember Bush, the 1st president? I. Remember, I was almost no first

president. I remember getting elected was Bill Clinton 'cause I was born with Ronald Reagan, the person who ruined America, And when I was born, he was president I. Don't know who was president when I was born. Probably Bill Clinton, OK. Clinton. Anyway, so yeah, I I did the same thing. I just stood and wouldn't say that 'cause they forced you to stand. And then I just wouldn't say the words at all. I didn't even pretend. All right, next thing. So the next theme I I really

liked well, didn't like. Well, it sucks. But a theme I noticed in the book was feeling, seen in a bad way. So on page 29, I think this is Yami's inner monologue. When this is when she first gets to Slayton and she's kind of like looking around and basically says there's already a bunch of kids in the courtyard. So I'm playing the game in my head called quote, Spot, the person of color. Total. There's a like a dozen kids out here. All right, sorry. Total.

There's like a dozen kids out of a couple hundred. I hate how visible that makes me feel. So. Yeah, it it's like the other. That's why I like the the intersectionality of the book, because it's from the point of view of somebody who literally like quote is an outsider in this, in this school in more ways than one. Not just being queer, but like is visibly an outsider because Yami is Mexican American and

Yami already says darker skin. So like is going, she's going to stick out and people are going to notice her as an outsider just because of the color of her skin in this school that she's in, which is predominantly like rich white kids with the, you know, the exception of the dozen kids like she's saying. So that tracks for experience in. Catholic school as well. Yeah, 'cause, I mean, Catholic schools in America are typically private schools, so you have to

pay money to go to them. So who has the money? The rich white people have the money. So that is why Yami sticks out. And Yami is there because her brother got a full scholarship, 'cause he's a little brainiac. And then she has to, like her and her mother have to pull together to pay so she can go too, which strains her family. But this scene being a scene in a negative way is something that like, I really enjoy it and I enjoy it.

I think it's fucked up, but enjoyed seeing from like her point of view because in America, wherever it was like, racism doesn't exist. Yeah, if you, if you. Say that from a white person's point of view, but if you look at like actual people telling their stories, like, Nah, it's kind of there. It's baked into the culture. And she kind of gets that little bit of reinforcement when she starts interacting with some of the kids.

So the first like group of girls she interacts with, I forget they're all of their names and they don't matter. The the worst one is Karen, and so she knows. With Karen. Yeah, I don't think that name is an accident. I think that that was a purposeful choice by the by the writer. So in her monologue, Karen's saying Race's shit about Bo and Oh no, sorry. On page 34 and 35, this is me writing. Sorry, I didn't use quotes for

all of these. So the Karen starts saying Race's shit about Bo and Yami basically kind of, like keeps quiet about it at first because she's in a position where she feels unsafe, and she says this thing in her inner monologue where it's easier if I pretend I didn't hear anything. I don't have the energy. I want to say something, but I don't want to get painted as that person.

I already stand out as it is. So this is this is happens at the beginning of Yami's journey where she's trying to figure her shit out. She's trying to gain her own courage and feel comfortable in her skin. And so it's like it's hard to feel. What I'm gaining from her perspective is that it's hard to already feel comfortable because she already sticks out.

And then she's also trying to hide the gay stuff and she's like confront is with these people who are like openly being racist about Beau. And like, Yami's in this position where she can either like say something and then be like, like, they'll hate her immediately and cast her as even more of an outsider, or she can just like, ignore it, basically. And she's like, I'm so like, I don't want to, like, put the spotlight on me even more too, you know?

And like that's such a shitty position to like even be in like, yeah, it's like, wow, it's shitty that Yami's not saying anything but like, think about the position that she's in and she's isolated, doesn't know anybody and like, unfortunately is in this environment where, like, the white people outnumber her. So like, it's really shitty position that she's in. So it's like I understand why she like thinks that and it's really fucked up and shitty that. Like she has to think that, you

know? Yeah, and for every Karen, there's a bunch more where that comes from. So again, like, she doesn't have the energy to deal with Karen because she doesn't have the energy to deal with all of them. She doesn't want to keep repeating the same things over and over. Like her name? Yes, so. Speaking of her name, one of the biggest I would say microaggression would be, especially from Americans, 'cause that's my experience is when people don't even try to say someone's name correctly.

So on page 46, Yami is annoyed that Karen calls her yummy. Like, come on and like, of course, Karen doesn't even try. So. Like, we pretend, not we. I mean, people who do these microaggressions pretend like names are so hard and they they can't figure it out, so they don't even try. And they just say whatever they think they want to call them. They're like, oh, your name is that. I'm going to call you Bob instead. Go ahead.

You know what I I I saw somewhere like as a call out to all the white people who are like, oh this is so hard. I could never do this. I forgot who it was. But the person says if you can learn how to say Timothy Chalamet correctly, you can say the name Yami. Basically it was like the sentiment, like you can learn this other person's name too. Like Chalamet is an insane name to say. They say that in the book 'cause I I've seen no. No, it's not in the book.

Like, it's outside of the book. Yeah, like that sentiment to white people where it's like, 'cause if you can say this name, I think you can say other names too. It sounds like something that should be written in the book, but yeah, I definitely seen that. Like, white people have no problem trying to learn other white people's names, and I hate that.

It's become common for people who immigrate to America to change their names to something American or English so people will say it right, Treat them better, like, especially on resumes. I know that's like a huge thing. You change your name so you're not immediately discriminated against subconsciously, cause a lot of people they might not

even do it consciously. It's something that's ingrained from when you're younger, like how the Pledge of Allegiance and the prayer go together in my head. It's just something you learn, so that's what you're used to. No. And that's something that's been going on for like a really long time, not just like the name.

So have you ever not noticed with authors, some authors will put like first initial, middle initial, last name like JK Rowling, RF Kwong. And it's like usually women because people will take them more seriously if they don't know they're a woman. So that's a way to like hide your gender or or like you can do that too if you have like an ethnic name you just like use the the abbreviation and then like a last name and then people will take you more seriously

quote. And they've done studies with this with like resumes where they like had a super ethnic name versus like a bland white person's name and it's the same resume and they would send it to the same company and like like I don't know the the stats from the study but like statistically the white person sounding name would get more call backs than the other even though they had the exact same exact same resume

except for the name change. So yeah, unfortunately, like there's a lot of power in names, and if like the name quote looks weird, it like it makes you feel it makes that person seen in a bad way, which is like the theme.

Unfortunately, it also sounds like what happened in Ellis Island when people were coming over from other countries and they're like last names and first names would just get changed because they either couldn't spell it, couldn't pronounce it, didn't like what it what it was, how it was written or whatever. And then you basically would erase somebody's entire history. Because now 3 generations after Ellis Island or after their family came through Ellis

Island, they now don't know. They can't trace their family back anymore, so they don't know where they came from and stuff. Like it just erases history and culture and stuff. Or people would purposely change their names to a white like a Anglo-Saxon name because those are the people who would get jobs. Yeah, yes, also that. Is that why we have so many Smiths and Johnsons?

No, I mean it could be, but a lot of that was just like you were your last name, just it was a description of like your what your job was. So Smith was literally a Smith, like somebody. Who I remember it, huh? I think my last name got changed at some point as well, but that's not relevant right now. Back to learning someone for me.

I just feel like it's. Basic respect to at least try to learn someone's name, or just try to say it because it's like the least about you could do. And yeah, we will most likely butcher the pronunciation because some languages are hard to say but at least try and then try even more to work on the pronunciation, especially if this is a person you see a lot like, especially in that case. But I just want to point and like not to say like, oh I'm amazing.

But I when we have a guest that I don't know how to say their name, well first we check with the guest for an interview with how to pronounce their name. But I'm on YouTube or Google trying to learn the pronunciation so I can say it right even to them before we even ask. Because it's just it's it's respect in my brain.

I don't know about you guys. I just, I do my best to attempt or I ask multiple times, like how to 'cause I sometimes don't hear things right, or like what I hear doesn't translate through my mouth. So I try. If I don't understand how to pronounce someone's name, I do my best to ask or have them like phonetically say it in some way to at least try. Yeah, I mean like try, try. I mean we've pointed out multiple times. I think it was just bad at names.

Bad at names. I try like sometimes some people like, if I can see it written, that helps me. I'm like, that doesn't help me. Actually, sometimes it makes it worse, 'cause like, I wanna read it. I don't wanna read it in Italian usually. And so, like, I'm going to say it like, incorrectly, 'cause I'm reading it in a different language. So like, that gets me in trouble a lot more than I realize. So yeah. So there's there are two

different sides. Like some people who may have trouble, but make sure it's all names and not just foreign names. Quote UN. Quote. Yeah, no. For me it's all names. I fuck up. I fuck up a lot of words 'cause I'm I'm reading it in the wrong language, I'm pronouncing it in the wrong language. It's very and yours an interesting person. And just again. We get we digress. I'm not saying like you're a Tamil person if you can't say a name. I just mean try. Yeah, I try. It's just it's bad.

Yeah, it's a horrible attempt. I don't mean I don't. I'm not trying to be malicious. No, I I understand you theor I I can tell right away. I'm like, oh theor, it's not gonna get. I'm not gonna get those. Damn, I try. Sometimes I'll listen to even with the YouTube stuff, I will still fuck it up like I just tried. I'm just mad at it and I'm sorry. Anyway, something else that was very telling about the culture differences and them being seen

in a bad way. Everybody really sees their ethnicity when the cops show up at the house parties. And the quote that I pulled is and so after all right, let me back up. So the cops come, and I believe. Yeah, I mean Caesar. Thank you. I for some reason Caesar was just slipping my mind. Caesar comes to Yami and says the cops are here, we need to go. And so they start running and then eventually they look back and no one else is running and it's because they didn't have to.

Everyone at this party is white and afterwards Yami is thinking and here they just asked us to turn the music down. No one is getting arrested or deported. No kid is getting their head bashed into the floor. The party is still happening. Their experiences are like if they do anything wrong, they're threatened. Their whole lives are threatened where these kids can get the cops called, they come and give kids breathalyzers. Yet the party still goes and there's no repercussions for

underage drinking. The privilege that these kids have to not fear cops and the audacity to continue this part because, like, that's the big thing in my mind. Like, they don't even care that the cops came. Yeah, telling, But then it's even worse because they laugh at Yami and Caesar for running. But if they would have been caught, you know, it wouldn't have end well, Like then the party would have been done and those two would have been

getting taken. They would have pretended like Yami was the most drunk there and drank the most and that's why she was getting arrested. But it was just a very upsetting scene in the makes you angry that this thing, these things do happen. And even I was even more angry at everybody around them because they would have, they should have been questioning why did these two feel like they needed to run, or why do we feel like we didn't have to 'cause that's

also big. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And like, it's like, I like that the author put this here, 'cause it's like, oh, you're like lulled into this, like, false sense of security with, oh, it's a happy party, having fun. And it's like, here's the reality of the situation for these two particular characters. Like the way things can go completely sideways in the way that, like death happens because the cops were too aggressive or like deportation.

Like that's not nothing like to get kicked out for because the music was too loud at a party, Like you're getting deported from the country because of it. Like, that's insane. Yeah. And so I I do it. It's it's a it's an uncomfortable scene, but it's an important scene to show that like the how like there's a 2 justice system here in America. There really is. And it's not like it was some cautionary tale for them. That's why they're scared. They've seen these things.

Exactly. They've experienced this. Go sideways. Yeah. It's not, it's not getting theoretical. It's real. They're. Dreamers, right? What did they mention? That they're Dreamers. Or, I don't know, but there I don't. I thought Yoni and her brother were citizens. Yeah, I think they were there because, 'cause they're like, freely able to go between

countries. And yeah, I think not that Dreamers aren't, but, well, Dreamer is like, it's an immigrant on the it's it's for kids, I think, where they can gain citizenship. But I I think Yami and Cesar are citizens. OK I got this one. I I don't. Remember that specific chart? So correct me some of the comments if we're wrong, yeah. OK. Anything else about that before we move on to the next point? No. So I'll just get more angry. OK, but this might make you angry too. So it does.

It does, I know. So Yami is the oldest sibling, so it's her and her brother Caesar. And you mentioned earlier the way she kind of like does a lot of self sacrificing to take care of everyone. And she particularly feels really really responsible for raising Caesar. And she mentioned. Especially after her. Dad was deported. She's like, wow, it's up to me to raise him and she's

constantly in this. And to me it seems like she is forced to grow up way too fast, 'cause here she is, a child, she's a minor working two jobs to save money in case her mom kicks her out after coming out. She's like raising her brother a lot. Because on the other hand, her mom works crazy hard just to keep them in the house, 'cause now they went from a dual income house to a single income house. She's an immigrant, probably can't get a great job, like,

because racism, etcetera. She didn't go to school, whatever. So like they're put, they're her family is at a disadvantage. Is all of that to say? And then here's this kid who's like forced to grow up too quickly to like raise her brother so he can he can be the golden child, right. He, he does nothing. Like he has no responsibility with any of that.

So he is free mentally and physically to like do whatever he needs to do and he can be the brainiac and like go be a doctor and like get the live the American dream basically where she's just like, I'm supporting him. That's my dream basically. So yeah, she's forced to grow up too fast. Yeah, something that like really struck me in the beginning with Yami was that she was so stressed about getting another job. Well, because she quit the 1:00 because of Bianca.

But she needed it to be able to pay for school, because she needed to be able to take care of Caesar, but their mom could only afford to send Caesar. Well, no. Cesar had a full ride. Oh, her mom paid half the tuition. Yami had to come up with the other half so that she could be at the school with him. That's right. I apologize. Thank you. But I just you could feel all the pressure on her on page 108. When she says I'm to her dad, I believe. And she says I'm tired.

I'm just so tired. Yami has the weight of her entire family on her shoulders. Like, yeah, the mom is she's doing the best she can as well. Like you can only do so much with being a one parent household. And I do feel like the mom could have handled some more things, like actually seeing how much Yami does, but at the same time she is trying to just like keep their family afloat as well.

But it's also like from that particular point, it's also a cultural thing that like, I I mean this comes from my culture also where like the the a lot of things get put on the eldest child no matter what. Like. So like it's expected for Yami to just do all these things. Like that's just what the eldest child is expected to do. So yeah, her mom doesn't, like, recognize all the things or like, not recognize, but like acknowledge to Yami, like, thank

you for doing all these things. It's because it's expected for her to do those things. So like, unfortunately, like, she's in a position where, like, she's expected to take on all these roles. Like, regardless of the fact that she's a child trying to figure her own shit out. Like, you know, so it's like. Yeah, I just. I just have trouble with that because I don't think any child should have to be responsible for taking care of other people.

Yeah, and that's a very modern way of thinking, to be honest. Cause like kids used to raise kids, like back in the day, 'cause they're, everybody was working and it's like somebody got raised these kids, you know? And it's just like that that poor child is burnout before she even becomes an adult. Right. But that's what I mean it it becomes even worse for her because then she has this thread of, I feel unsafe in a possibly homophobic environment.

And then when she learns about Caesar, she's like, now I have to get him out of here too. And so, like, it's, it's even more pressure than, like normal is put on her to the point where she's burning out. Like you said, Caitlyn as a child, which is just, again, she's like forced to grow up way too fast because of things out of her control, which is really shitty. Yeah. Yeah. Fiora, did you ever feel like you grew up too fast? Not really.

I mean, I had the eldest child syndrome where like a lot of things were expected of me as the I was like the eldest child of like two families, like eldest grandchild. So like I had a lot of expectation on me. So yeah, I felt I developed that like perfectionism mentality and things like that, but I don't feel like I grew up too fast. Do you Caitlin? That is a loaded question. I know I've been like trying to figure out what to say, what to hold back because I don't want it to be too long.

But I will say I had a fairly privileged childhood in the fact that I didn't see anything going on until 4th grade at a time where during that year my mom got really sick. I had to the point where she couldn't work anymore. So my parents separated when I was 3. So we went from 2 incomes. We might have only been one income the entire time. So we'll just say I had a one income household. Then it went down to basically 0

income. So from then on it was just really difficult for it was always just my mom and me and we became homeless. I think I've talked about that a couple times on the podcast and in on my own social media, and I had to learn how to fend for myself, especially when my mom, I don't want to OK, so trigger warning. In 6th grade she my mom almost passed away because the doctors were just letting her wither away. So I had to learn to do laundry. I learned to cook for myself.

I learned how to load and unload moving trucks by myself because my mom just wasn't able to do it. Damn. Yeah. I was so concerned about money that I I got a job as soon as I could. Luckily at that time things got better so I could quit 'cause I hated it. Never be a bagger. It's so it's terrible. But I I learned to take care of myself, and I'm very lucky that

it got better. But that the fear of not having money, the fear of not having a place to live is always will always be ingrained in me. And I the the money was a huge thing. So like, I related to Yami with trying to make money and I was so scared that I wouldn't even let my mom buy me a belt. And then having to go to school with people who were so privileged, you sit there and you feel so small, like you don't belong.

And it's not exactly how Yami's situation because people didn't know my situation just by looking at me. They know more about Yami. Or like assume more about Yami just by looking at her and. There is nothing worse than go sitting next to ignorant kids who are your peers, but you are so much older than them mentally because you know going home that you don't have this like mansion that you're living in and after school sports paid for, you're just trying to help your family

keep going. And it there's a lot, there's a lot of pressure. And it not that it's put on you either. It's just a sense of you feeling like you should be helping your family, 'cause you see how hard so Yami does see how hard her mom works. And I saw my mom trying everything in her power. So I felt like I needed to be not a burden on anybody. I so I try to be the best I could. I try to be the strongest I could be, so I could move anything, I could build anything.

I could do anything that my mom would need, 'cause I didn't want her to need anybody else, and I didn't want her to struggle even more. So Long story short, yeah, I I feel like I did grow up faster and I feel like I'm a little. Stalled and growing up right now. 'Cause I'm trying to cling on to other things. I've sorry for the long answer, but I noticed growing up that I would watch TV and I was really delayed in what I watched.

So I watched like little kid television, PBS type stuff, Clifford and that age group so that you would say toddler up to 6th grade and then I would watch Disney Channel. I mean, I was still watching now like, it's mindless stuff, but till after high school. And I think that was just a way of clinging to a younger childhood that I didn't necessarily get to experience like everybody else.

And I just, I I wanted it. So that was my little piece of escaping in the TV and why I connect to media right now. Sorry. No, thank you for sharing that. I appreciate that answer, Paul. What did you say something to? Me, did you say? Something to me. Do you have an answer for that? So I honestly grew up very privileged and I do acknowledge that I grew up in a extremely white and well off neighborhood. I went to a fantastic this is. I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to brag.

I'm not trying to like. I'm just stating like I I didn't realize how bad some things and some people had it until I got to college. I didn't see it. I was so privileged that I heard of people that did go to the school that they had like assisted lunches, like half price lunches or whatever that like that. We did have a food pantry in our town that I volunteered at. I knew it was a thing, but I just didn't see anything. It was just not like what I was around.

I guess my whole family, like my family. When my my my mom's parents moved here, they were extremely poor. They lived in New York City in like a they with in the neighborhood that had all of their relatives in it. And they, my grandparents worked like my grandfather worked like 3 jobs the oldest. This is exactly what you were saying how like the oldest

sibling takes care of everybody. So my aunt took care of everybody worked from as soon as she was able to like threw everything, fed everybody like she was the mom because my grandmother didn't work. She grew up privileged in Ecuador and like came over here and was like, I have no skills. I I never cooked for myself. I've never worked, I've never done anything. So her oldest daughter took care

of everybody. But I think when my family put down roots in New Jersey, like my my parents, they wanted to not have that as our upbringing, I'm assuming because I never saw anything like that. My family had all moved out of New York City and moved into like the suburbs and everybody was like trying their best to kind of be the American dream. And I. So while I didn't have the like I I I felt it more like internally like I was like the

emotional part wasn't up to par. So like while everything was fit like financially stable and I grew again, grew up quite privileged, My emotional stability and my emotional like ability to interact with other people and the how my parents interacted with me, it was not great. So I didn't have the again the the financial like financially

everything was fine. But I I grew up in AI, had to take care of myself because I didn't feel I could count on my family to be there for me. So it was a little bit different, but I I guess I I grew up emotionally faster than I should have. That's fair. That's valid. OK, Yeah. So that little sideline, I will have just one more thing. I think I would have been such a bitch if I continue to be. Privileged though. Because, Oh my God, did I rule that Catholic school? Damn Galen.

But also, damn, those kids are racist as shit. They're terrible. Yeah, I'm lucky that my mom, I came home from kindergarten and said one thing, 'cause I think I heard it from other kids too. She brought in exchange students. She's like, I'm exposing you to other cultures, like this is not happening. And so then I never had an issue again. And then I always made friends with the bullies and made them nice, 'cause they were just trying to fit in. So yeah, I was a very outspoken child.

And then I got really, really introverted and shy once everything happened but moving. On it's Sorry to this. I'm gonna add to that a little bit. It's interesting how different pieces like 'cause I feel the same way. Like I I was very outspoken as a very young kid, and then like emotional stuff happened. Like I had like my. Like I stopped believing in God. I figured out that my gender was wrong. Then I figured out like I was, I was gay.

And like all these things just kind of like internalized everything as opposed to being like an external thing that was going on. So like we even though like our. The. Like what we actually went through was different. I feel like it seems like our like how we emotionally dealt with stuff seems kind of similar, if that makes sense. Mm hmm. OK. So let's go back to the book. We've we've done group therapy. Let's continue. So something about Yami and Caesar's relationship.

I do love that Yami had Caesar to relate to with religion because in the beginning, you don't know that Yami doesn't know that Caesar is gay. And first of all, that revelation, I loved. He's bisexual. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Bye. Thank you for correcting me. We do not do by erasure on this podcast. So Yami really struggles with religion, and I I feel like a lot of queer people go through this who grow up in a religious household, and on page 14, she says In the hallway.

I avoid looking at her collection, talking about her mom, her mom's collection of crosses, and the gallery of Jesus portraits on the walls. First of all, that's that's a lot. I we do have some here. And I also was just like, OK, that doesn't exist because it's just, it's very it's very odd. And then on page 97, she says, I grew up Catholic, but I don't exactly agree with everything the faith preaches. As far as the higher power goes, I have no idea what I believe in.

That Catholic guilt shit messes me up, though. If there's a hell, I'm definitely going there and I relate to like, I don't know what I believe in, 'cause you're like, fed this stuff when you're younger, you have no choice but to believe what you're being told. Indoctrination. That's what it is. Yeah. And when during all of this, she does talk about how she is able to talk about to Caesar.

Mm hmm. But like, there's no way she could ever say any of her internal thoughts to her mom, because her mom is has this collection of stuff 'cause she is so religious. And I just like how that allows them to relate to each other, and later they bond over queerness. But when you grow up in a place where you're surrounded with something you don't know if you even believe in, I'm really glad that she had someone to escape. It from, yeah. It with, yeah.

And now, anyone have something to say about that before we move on to? No, I I agree with that. I relate with that experience as well and I do. I like your point that at least she had Caesar kind of as an ally in that. Kind of like. I don't know how to describe it, but basically processing her, her faith and what it means to her, yeah. Yeah, so I want to move on to Yami's relationship with her parents because this is a very interesting arc, I feel.

So the story starts with a huge disconnect with Yami and her mom, and Yami's father is her hero. So we see it proven that Yami's mom is always more concerned about Caesar, which causes a rift between them. And I mean, yeah, Caesar's the baby, I am the baby, so I don't know the experience from the adult. I'm sure it was hard of my brother, especially 'cause he's 13 years older than me. He. Wasn't very much president in my life. So it's just a disconnect for me in this.

Story. I think there's another piece to it, though, with Yami. It's not just that Caesar's the baby. I think the other piece is that the reason why she idolizes her father so much as I think she has, she's holding on to that person he was in the past. And so, like to her, she remembers her father when she was young. And when you're young, you don't see your parents as people. You see them as heroes, like people who can do no wrong, people who everything they say

is right. So, like, that is what she's clinging to for her dad, where it's like her mother, now that she's older and becoming an adult, she can see her mother more as a human being and sees and because of that sees her faults. And so she's like, oh, mom's so flawed and blah, blah. And she worked so hard. She doesn't take her culture seriously, but dad always did when I was a child. And she doesn't know her dad anymore. They don't really talk about

real things. It's just like that superficial, like, how are you doing? Tell me about your day. Like, she doesn't know her father anymore. So I think that's the other part of why she's always she sees her mother so negatively. It's like she doesn't actually know her father. And so she's clinging to the past with him, whereas her mother, like, she she hasn't fully reconciled the fact that her mother's a human being with

flaws quite yet. And I think she kind of resents her a little bit, 'cause, like that happens, like as you age and you're trying to understand that your your parents are just people. People are flawed. Like, it's like a shattering of the illusion kind of thing that she's going through, yeah. You're completely right. Her father's just frozen in time for her. Yeah. Exactly. So that that that's a big problem.

And and I and I don't think she ever really recognizes that at all, 'cause she she's never really gonna know her father. No, because unfortunately, which is terrible. Unfortunately and fortunately. Because for her situation, yeah. So Yami's mom was fairly expressive with her views on gay people, even it was only subtle at times.

Or not so subtle. So one thing that, like, really caught my attention is when her mom Shields her eyes when two women start kissing on TV. But Yami points out that she is fine with hold on. Sorry, I keep hitting the adjustable desk. And it keeps going up and down. But Yami points out that her mom is fine with her watching someone get murdered. And I love the comparison because it shows that people are more OK with murder than they are with people ganging it up all over the place.

This is such an American thing, though. It's ridiculous like because in the in media cause of the way media is like rated. Like if there's something explicitly queer that happens in it, it automatically gets bumped up to a mature audience. But like violence can be at a lower maturity. So like kids are, it's OK with children watch murder and like violence cause violence is like everything that's fine. But if guns are rated G if it's queer. Nope. Adults only. It's like what?

It's actually insane when you think about it. I mean it starts with like Bambi, literally. It's not even humans, but that's like the parents die in the first like however. Every Disney movie. Every Disney movie, Yeah. But it's like everything starts with death, and death is like all over the place and that's already G. But like death is a part of life, but when you're explicitly talking about like watching a murder happen on like you're watching the violence, Bambi was

cut away. Exist for existence. For example, in Home Alone, you get that the The Lost and I think it's Home Alone two. Yeah, the New York one. You see the guy shooting a gun in the one scene like when he's trying to pretend like his dad is there and is because like he got he gets a hotel room and pretending like his dad is there and he's the one who paid for it and there is like the hotel

staff outside the door. So he has his movie on and he's like, I'm gonna give you the count of three until I blow your brains out 1-2 and then the the hotel person leaves 'cause they don't want to get their brains shooted out, but that's fine, that's a kids movie. But. It's just that's very, a very American thing. Yeah, but back to Yami. So Yami revamped her mom's Etsy shop and she was so proud of what she did. And I'm proud of her too. But it was crushed when her mom

told her to take it down. And I mean, I see both sides, cause Yami's mom like, she thinks that because she posted it as well, she thinks that they're trying to ask people for help and that's not. Oh, that's not how I read it. That's an interesting read. I also read it as Mom being like shit. That's gonna be more work for me. And I'm already like this woman.

When does she take a break? Like, she's she's doing working two jobs by herself and she's like, she had her business at a state that was manageable for just her to do. So she's like, fuck, how am I gonna keep up with all these orders? Like, I can't believe you did that. Like, so I think she was freaking out, 'cause? Like, yeah, OK, yeah, 'cause. I think they had a bunch of orders at the time. Exactly. She's like, Oh my God, I don't

have time to do this. And now, like people are gonna think that of my business and like, yeah, I think that's. Really, that is true as. Well, I think Yami saw, saw it that way. But I do like that like the way the Etsy, the store gets to thrive is by the two of them working together because like her mom needed help and like she has no support system really. Like the father that that her her husband's gone. Like she has no support system.

So, like, I like that Yami kind of steps in and fills that role for her mother because her mom needs help. Like the story you were telling Caitlin like and there's nobody there to help her mom, you know? Yeah, Yeah. But because her mom told her to take it down, Yami turns to her

father. And I I thought it was a really cute experience that she woke up to a text from her mom telling her to leave the store up and one from her father telling her that he talked to her and it has like a wiki face at at the end

and it's just in the beginning. I was so hopeful with that whole relationship, 'cause I love seeing the father in her like connect and I guess it is superficial because she I didn't even think about how he is frozen in time for her and but from there it fortunately, unfortunately it starts to go downhill with the father. And like I said, I was hopeful for this relationship, especially when he, the father told Yami that she's allowed to be honest with him.

I thought that he knew already. I thought and would understand her. Like, I thought he figured out that she's queer or like something is bothering her and she needed to tell him. Well, from her perspective also, he seemed so much more open to differences, like to anything like just seemed more open as a person versus the mom who in her portrayal is so like rigid and very Christian and very or very Catholic rather and very like. That's not good and if it's not

good, it's not OK kind of thing. Whereas the dad was in her perception was the the opposite of that. Yeah. And I think part of that had to do with the fact that, like, the dad, like, stood up for human rights for like, immigrants and things like that. And so she's like, oh, he's receptive to like radical change and things like that. But it's like, no, he's like he had a vested interest in that for himself.

Yeah. It doesn't mean he's necessarily open minded about your particular situation. That doesn't align with him. And I think like the mom is the more conservative figure out of safety for herself.

And also like I think that's a way for her to cling to her roots is by being very Catholic because like unfortunately that was that is a is a very colonizing imperialist religion that was imposed on many indigenous people including indigenous Mexicans. So but like to the mom who grew up probably Catholic in Mexico like that's a way to cling to her culture. It's just not the same cultural experience that Yami got with her dad, who, you know, so.

That whole story, the whole arc between the two parents. When Yami's mom finds out that both her kids are queer, she she ends up like while they're while Yami's at school and I think Cesar was coming home from the hospital later that day. She decorates all the house in a rainbow stuff and. Yeah, it gets a. Cake and it's just adorable issue. They're like, what is going on? She's like. It's gay. Can I find something like that? Yeah, And that was really.

Sweet. Feel happy because it doesn't matter even what she believed in. She's like, I believe in my kids and I will accept you for who you are and I will get there. I will meet you where you are instead of you having to hide yourself. And I know she came on a really strong with them, but it's so cute and it's really supportive of her and it means that she had to go look up the bi flag colors and do research on this to know

what those colors were. And it's it's so special and something I know that they'll remember for their entire life. Oh yeah, for sure. I wonder if she texted Jamal too, to be like what is the bive like because she loved him. Oh, my gosh. Yes. That relationship was also very cute. I love that she loves Jamal. Yeah, it could be like, all right, Jamal, I need help. Let me figure, like, educate me here. That would have been a real, I'm pretty sure. That was the Google she

contacted. Him. But what really not surprised me, 'cause I didn't really know what to expect, is when she finds out that her husband was treating Yami horribly and not talking to her, and that she immediately was just like, you're out of our lives. Like, even though she loved this man, I again, they're also a rift. Because there he was, frozen in time for her as well, 'cause like they only got to talk on the phone. That's what I'm saying. What was that relationship actually?

What was the? End game there. I wonder what even happened when they went back and visited him, because like there there is gonna be a disconnect. Like who knows if there is even a connection? Correct. Yeah, I always wonder about that with the parents, 'cause we don't really get their point of views. You're just seeing it from Yami. He's a kid. Who it would be interesting to have, like, an epilogue from maybe the mom's point of view.

Yeah, I would. Maybe the dad's point of view 'cause I just wanna see what the hell is in that brain. Right. And it's like, This is why I don't like YA, 'cause, like you only see it from the child's point of view. And it's like you lose the complexity of what's actually happening in this scenario.

And so when we get to the end though, with the mom doing the coming out thing that you're talking about the the little pride celebration, like it's like Yami's like, oh wow, my mother loves me. And it's like your mother's loved you the whole fucking time. Like the the reason your mom is so tired and like it like burnt out is because she's literally sacrificing her life for the two of you. Like she loves you so much. She is sacrificing her, like, quote, American Dream so that

you can have it right. And like you're sitting here idolizing your father who's not in it. He's not supporting you. He doesn't have to. Like, his money doesn't go towards you. Like he's not actually supporting any of you. So he gets to be like this good fun guy who just like pops in occasionally and like, gets to be the hero. But it's like your mother is the one who's like literally with you all the time. She is the one making the sacrifice. She's the one keeping a roof

over your head, like. And that is lost completely when you look at it from a child's point of view only. And like, that's really why. I don't like it. It's very common. In families. Yeah, that's what I was just gonna say. It's very realistic cause like now thinking about my family, like they did a lot to keep us, like me and my sister, like a a

lot. I mean they they gave us everything, pretty much everything we wanted, you know, Like we we had enough and yet still going through everything. Like you just don't see it until you're an adult, until you can reflect on like, oh OK, like, yeah, like they had their own things that they were dealing with and going through and trying to still be a parent even though whatever was happening in

in their adult lives as well. Yeah, until you're working and you're like, oh, they need a time for themselves as well. They can't just be taking. Care of us? Yeah, 'cause like the point of view with children. It's just so narrow. And personally, I find that boring. So like I mean that's fair whether where you? Where you are in life like you're. Right, exactly. That is where you are in life, Like.

But like, where I'm at, I'm like, well, what was going on with other people, 'cause like, there's more to the story and I'm only seeing, like, this tiny piece of it, I. Think For me, I still relate to these books in the fact that I didn't have like the typical high school experience because I was so worried about other things and the social aspect.

I'm very delayed in, I personally feel, so I'm trying to learn from everybody else, like learning themselves in high school because I never really did that. See. And I feel the exact same way. Like I I love like this book felt so like I I went along like I remember high school in very similar points to what was talked about in this book. Like that's and it was like a very it helped like I don't know about come to terms but it helped. Like heal.

Yeah, I guess heal in a way. Not fully, of course, 'cause it's just a book, but like. It helped put in. Books are powerful. Yeah, they are powerful, but like, but it just it felt so relatable to to me and like growing up and everything. So it was nice having it in book form as opposed to just in my brain as memories. Yeah, anything else before I just go over a couple more things I liked, apparently. Do it.

I put my likes at the end. I have some to add in this likes like section so if you want to. Go first, would you? You can go go first. I just want to add I loved the titles of this book like the titles of the chapters. I loved the like twisting of like religious themed titles like thou shalt not trust A22 Faced bitch Like I just I don't know I it just felt like trying to. I don't know what the word is like. Almost twist the. It's a play on words.

Yeah, yeah, I like, I like the way the author, so the author's very witty. Like, again, like, I'm not a huge fan of why, but I really love the way this book was written. The author's A. Clearly a very. Prolific writer. I like the way the writer also used the titles to show Yanni's headspace, because if you notice the IT will. It pivots at some point when she gets to basically like her big epiphany. And it stops going away from like the Catholic school, the Catholic kind of titles to more

like Mexican heritage. Kind of. I forget I don't have the book in front of me, I haven't read it in a while, but like, it pivots as the character pivots. So I really like the way the author. Not only they're funny, but like there's a purpose behind why their author did that and I just I find that depth interesting in the story. So a few things I. Liked I should have put this one in another section, but I don't know why I didn't. Not this one, but the next one.

So the first one that I want to talk about is Caesar's response to response to blatant racism. And I just love that he says the call Cassidy. Yeah, again, this book is so witty. Like I do love it. It was very I found myself laughing actually out loud, multiple times. It was great. OK, so the next one I did. I'll. I'll read it fast so we don't spend too much time.

I thought that was really relatable, that Yami kept comparing where she lived to other people she went to school with because she was so ashamed of where she lived. And she didn't want Beau to know where she lived because she lives in such a nice house and it's rough when you go to school. People who have everything and they can't understand what you have. I love that Yami is comfortable with her outward appearance and she's able to admit that she looks cute as hell and loves her

style. And I think that confidence also helped her accept who she is on the inside, and something I wish I had just to be totally comfortable with who you what you look like on the outside. I just find it very admirable. Yeah, and I also find it very interesting that, like, she outwardly is comfortable with who she is, but it's the inner self. That's why, like, I That's why I really love the the imagery of the mirror, because the mirror

is your inner self. That's really what she's ashamed of and struggling with. But outwardly, she's like very comfortable with her heritage, with the way she looks and everything you just said. So it's a very interesting dichotomy for a teenager specifically, where, like a lot of teenagers are just like they're grossed up by why they look. Also so I I like that she had it made her more interesting as a character to me.

So I did enjoy that. Not on here, 'cause I I didn't see this section when I wrote my notes. But I will add Cesar Jabal. I love them. They're very cute just about them because they were adorable and cute and I just love Jamal. Oh my God, he wasn't in it enough. I would love to see in like 20 years, a family Christmas where maybe Bo and Yummy go home together. Maybe they're together, who knows? Or maybe they're just friends and they have other people, but Jamal and Caesar are definitely

together. And then they all go to their house and celebrate Christmas Eve, I think. I think they celebrate, whatever. That doesn't matter, correct? Yeah. I'm surprised you didn't put the mental health stuff in here, Caitlin. I I mean, I think I was going to talk about that earlier or I didn't get to that part of the notes, but just yeah, in general, the the I I do love the mental health. First of all, they told him that they gave him a set amount of time, that it would be 3 days

and then he'd go home. What the hell if I was given that option? That's 'cause he was on suicide watch. I think at in the hospital like just 72 hour hold, right? It's it's like that's a legal thing. It's a seven they have the hospital has to hold you legally for 72 hours. If there the doctor invokes, they are a suicide risk. Yeah, there's like a law that they can use to hold you for it's and it's 72 hours, that's it. Then they can't legally hold you after that.

You can be. You can be admitted after that, but you could also elect to go home after exactly. Then it's they cannot legally hold you anymore. You could leave against medical advice and things like that. And it's more complicated too, 'cause he's a minor so mom could

force him to stay. But like, the hospital legally can hold you for 72 hours if you were a. Christian So my experience was that when I went into the hospital, it you, OK, so first of all you want to put yourself in there if if you get forced in there, you definitely cannot choose to leave. Like it's you're under the will of these people. And so many of us were trying to get out and basically you would say I want a 72.

And so that was like in you have 72 hours and they release you, but your doctor has to sign off on that and if they determine that you're not OK to leave, you are stuck there even longer. So it yeah, it was a very, I felt like I was in prison, a decent prison. But like it that whole thing just felt very prison. Like to me, not that I know what prison is. I'm sure prison's so much worse. But like doors would lock and key cards were needed. It was just a very weird environment.

But I just. I just found that interesting that I always love it when they put the mental hospital in books and show that it's OK if you need to go there, 'cause it's OK to get the help that you need. Yeah, and I like that. They also show it's Caesar's journey, which is realistic, especially in Aya book that like just 'cause you go to the hospital and get treated for something mentally, it doesn't mean that you're fixed magically. Like, it's a huge process like that.

He's gonna have good days and bad days. Like, it's not. And I like that they do that in a heart. Stopper too, where they're showing. Like, it's not. You're not. It's not like an infection where like you treat the infection, the infection's gone. It's like this is something that can take a lifetime to work through. But a lot of people who aren't experiencing expect you to just be magically fixed.

And also you do as well. Like I, every time I go into the intensive therapy or even the hospital, I came home, I was like, I still feel like shit. Like, why do I still So trigger warning for SI. Yeah. Suicidal ideation. Yeah. Yeah, OK. I was like, yeah, yeah. I was like, I can never remember all the letters. I was like, why do I still not want to be here? Why do I still feel like I can't continue? And eventually it did dissipate to. I mean, some days it comes back sometimes.

There's still situations where I'm like, oh, I can't handle this, But it's definitely when you leave those places, you're just trying to. At least for myself, I was trying to get out, just to get out and feel like I was OK, but I wasn't. And then you have people treating you differently afterwards, not wanting to leave you alone. Yeah. Caesar. Yeah. Yeah, like. It it's a lot. I I will. But I also, I just really like that the books tackle that because not it's not something

you talk about. I mean now in days it's a lot better. And that's why in the podcast I'm always like very open with every experience I have because I just want people to feel seen and that's what the media is for

us and why we're here. Yeah, and so the other thing I really like about Caesar's journey, I thought he was, I agree with, Oh my God, first person who recommended this to us, CC, who came in our discord and talked about it and said that Caesar was like the most interesting character and found Caesar very, very fascinating. I totally agree with that because a lot of what happens with Caesar we don't see because we have a child giving us their perspective.

And to a child the world is myopic and and Yami only sees Yami's world. So like there's glimpses of Caesar, but Yami doesn't really see the full picture of Caesar cause Yami's very focused on Yami which is a very child thing to do. But what's also interesting, so like you know was an exile. I gave so many signs but Yami missed all the signs. I had to do at least one reference. Oh, you remind me of something,

yes. So, like from our narrator's point of view, the fact that Yami missed all of Caesar's signs that he was not OK is not. It's kind of expected from who our narrator was. What's also interesting is that the mother didn't see any of it, and I think that's because she's so busy trying to like make money for them and like run the household and keep these, you know, kids in a fancy school that she didn't have time to see it.

So it's kind of like the reality of being in that situation where mom is working herself to death basically and isn't around and her daughter resents her for not really being around enough. But like, because the mom is doing her best in this shitty situation, she is missing what's actually going on with her kids. Like. And it could be something really horrible that she's missing. But it's like, you can't.

It's not her fault. It's like their situation just is like unfortunate, kind of like in that home environment where she doesn't like she doesn't see it either. So like, poor Caesar was basically like this unhappy ghost, like in the house where, like, he had no, he was more isolated than anybody else. And like, nobody knew it, 'cause he just presents as the Golden Boy, you know?

And unfortunately, it takes such an extreme scenario for people to wake up and that is what happens for people like. Again, no one knew anything was wrong with me because you will always. I think there was a Robin Williams. I believe that's his name. A quote like happy people are the saddest on the no, the saddest people try to make other people laugh or something like that. Like, they're like, That's why comedians. I always like, are you OK with

like some jokes? Like, but how are you really feeling? I'm like, let's do therapy. So where did that joke come from? No. So just but it's rough. Like you you are just trying to get through. Like you can't worry about when you are worried. Sorry. So for Yami's mom's point of view, she is worried about them and just trying to give them the

basics that they need. So but at the she still needs to take care of herself as well, and it's hard to see everything that's going on because it's just too much for one person. Yeah. So my thought through reading this whole book was like, how is her mother actually? Because like her, there's no way her marriage is like so strong. Like there's no way like she. Like, they think I don't remember which parents said it, but they're like, oh, that was the love of my life and blah blah.

But it's like, how's it now, 'cause, like, you guys barely talk, You can't see each other. Like, Mom is now the head of the household she didn't expect to be. And like, is living this life she didn't expect to have. And it's like, clearly very taxing on her. And it's like, really, how was how was their mom, 'cause like, I worry about. I worry about that woman. And the amount of times she's just crying because her husband isn't there and she's doing all this by herself and.

That's terrifying. Two kids by yourself in a foreign country. Like, where's her book? Yeah, that's that's the sequel. That's the book I want. Make it what the mom's story is like. Make it an actual for the older generation, not for real. Yeah, you know what I mean. Anyway, any other points you guys like before we kind of wrap this up? Cole. Did any of you?

Have. A bow like when you were in school, like somebody who you're just like, wow, they actually either stand up for themselves, stand up for what they believe in. They like, you know, just like emulate bow in your own life. Looking back, there was a girl in my, I think it was a forensic science class, and she always talked about her girlfriend. And at the time I knew I was questioning myself, but I wasn't.

I was like refusing to actually think about it and I just thought it was really cool that she was so open about having a girlfriend. She was so happy with having a girlfriend and she was just always herself. She likes cosplay, so she would wear some stuff to school. She would always share with what she's working on. She didn't care what anyone. Thought. At least that's what it seems like. And I do love that. And I think about her every once

in a while. Yeah, I mean, for me it was like a queer girl who was out and I was just like, well, if you can do it, I can do it. And she like I was. I played lacrosse and she played lacrosse for like a different school. And she's like, damn, she can do it. I can do it. And then, yeah, that's what motivated. Me. That sounds like a good YA book. My life would not make a good way.

No, I just mean that whole concept of a closeted lacrosse player and then a rival out I. Wish they got together, but they did not. That is not how that story went, anyway. That's OK. Sure happens. I guess my last thing would just be the section that we've been adding to recent episodes randomly. What Taylor Swift songs do I relate to? This week. Oh man, for this book. Damn. Would you like to a moment to think or do you want me to go?

The only thing that's popping into my head is you belong with me. That's like yummy to bow and vice versa. Oh. I love it. OK, so my I have a journey of songs for Yami and Bianca actually. Oh, that's really good 'cause maybe now we got bad blood. Actually, that's not one of the I could have, so I'm just thinking like Yami's like internal emotions. So before she even says anything, I was thinking the one that turns into Betty, with Bianca suddenly changing the way

that. You're in your Betty era right now, I love. Betty, and then to my tears ricochet. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. And then Yami, I would say in general is epiphany in the fact that she does everything for everyone else and dreams about her future. So basically this book is folklore. Yeah, I was just gonna say these are all folklore. Sucks. I was going down the list, looking at lyrics and So what you're. Saying is that Anne could have

wrote this. Book that was a spoiler for our May book club that will release in June. Yes, goody spoiler. Your dear Wendy. I'm so excited for that book. That's so. Good. Anyway, OK, thank you, Caitlin. I I agree, this is very full glory. OK, so let's get back to Lesbian Jesus. OK, so now that we've concluded our discussion on this, we will wrap this up with our Lesbian Jesus Hydration Scale.

This is our scoring system that was developed by Gay Science right here at Big Gay Energy, which makes it a super accurate method for determining how valuable a piece of queer media is to the Queer Media Library. Why are we hydrating? Because queer media, like water, is essential for life. So how much would you hydrate for Lesbian Jesus for the Lesbian as Guide to Catholic School? Was Moses the 1 depart to see? I think so. Cool. Correct.

I'm going to name Moses Mabel for this purpose because we have lesbian Jesus, so we're naming it Moses Mabel. So 10 Mabel's parted seas. What's Moses, Mabel? Moses parting the That's it. The amount of water Moses had to hold back when he was parting the Red Sea. Mabel. No, I was just. I was just changing Moses's name. You just don't worry about it, Moses. Time. Moses's. Oh, sorry. OK, cool. It did not land. I just I shouldn't know what.

Mabel meant. I I I got the reference, but I didn't know what what Mabel meant. What was Mabel? Oh, I don't have anything clever. That's. OK. I. What number would you give it? I would give. It. Oh goodness. I really like this. I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna give it a, like, solid 10 of like. I related way too strongly to this book. It felt like my high school experience and which I'm not sure if that's good, but I that's where we're at. So. It's novel worthy, if anything.

Your experience. I don't know what my experience was, but this book was very, very good. I I really enjoyed it. I was very excited about it. Good. And I will give it whatever amount of water it takes for Jamal and Caesar to be end game, because I want them to be end game. You should split. It needs to be a split book between the mom's point of view and then what's happening with Caesar and Jamal. Nah, we can just have two more. Books. Yeah, two more books.

That sounds good. I enjoyed this, but I appreciate the effort. All right, cool. So that concludes our book club. What's next? Solitaire. All right, Yeah. So then the book we're currently reading now and we'll be doing our next book club on is Solitaire by Alice Osmond. Osmond. Anyway, I do it wrong every. You know what's really funny, 'cause the first time we said it in hard supper, I think I said Osman. And you're like, no, it's Osman. So it's stuck in my head that

it's I'm. So sorry, I probably did that to you. I'm sorry. Alice Osman, the queen of just writing queer stuff, and I love it. So basically what Solitaire is, is it's the first her first novel she wrote at like 14,

'cause she's a genius. And it's basically the first book in the Heartstopper universe, even though it wasn't intended to be. So it follows Tori Spring, who's Charlie's older sister, and it like takes place during book four of Heartstopper. It's really weird and meta and like basically like her brother is like featured in it with Nick and that sparked her to be like, it'll be interesting to write about them and that's sparked hard stopper.

So we're reading that book cause Tori is a queen and deserves her own book club episode. So check that book out. It's super. I've read it, It's really great. And I'm excited for Caitlin to read it, 'cause I really think you're gonna like it. Oh, I If Fiora tells me I'm gonna like something, most likely I'll like it. Fiora, it's. It's a book about Tori. How do you not love that? Anyway, the. Diet Lemonade Origin story Yeah, it's No, literally, it's.

I love Tori anyway, so that will be our next book club. So thank you for joining if you have any. Like you said at the beginning, if you have any books you would like us to check out and or cover, please leave a comment. Reach out to us, let us know. And thanks again. Charlie. Yes, Charlie S I'm so sorry. There was the heart stopper thing and then your name happens to be Charlie too. Thank you again for suggesting this book. It was really great.

We had a lot of fun reading it, and until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus and. Gate up all over the place. Bye. And with that, we've been big gay energy. Thank you for listening. We'd really appreciate it if you downloaded this episode and left us a review. No matter how brief, your contribution will help us reach a wider audience. We would love to hear from you about everything and anything.

You can. Find us on all social media platforms at Big Gay Energy Pod or e-mail us at Big Gay Energy [email protected]. Join our Discord server to connect with us and our friends who also love queer media. The link to join is in our episode description below if you'd like to support us. Check out our Merch store on Big gayenergypod.com or join our Patreon for early access to episodes, exclusive content, and so much more. Until next time, hydrate from lesbian Jesus.

And gay enough all over the place.