Hello and welcome to Big Gay energy. I'm Bree. I'm Fiora and I'm Caitlin come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media representation matters. And we're here to talk about it. We're gonna start part three of our paper girls discussion and getting into the gay stuff, which is probably what you've all been waiting for in your like why the fuck did take you
three episodes to get here. But hey if you're wondering that then you're new because you definitely know and welcome to Bree Caitlin and Fiora discuss things and it takes years. So you're welcome but I think or interesting or funny maybe Maybe a little both. Hopefully hopefully I mean you just love us. You're still here. So thank you. And now. No, no, no. We will get into all the cage, a Mac stuff and I want to start. I'm just, we're just going to go
for this. There's no great way to group this other than just going Episode by episode with all the cage, a gay stuff that happens. So that's, we're going to do this. If starting first with episode 3, So this is the the sequence of stuff where KJ rescues Mac went on. I don't know. I know, I know this is bad but I have to no wonder. It took me a few episodes to get into it. I think it gave till episode 3. Yeah. Okay, exactly. All right. Exactly yeah. So I mean the fief are there 12
so it's fine. But yes, episode 3. That's kind of where it all starts or at least becomes obvious. So the heh It starts with them on like Larry's farm and he tells them hey, you know, the bad guys. They're closing in. And so we got to get the fuck out of here and K. Tree is the only one at this point. Who's like, Max not with us. She's only want, everybody's like, yeah. Let's get the fuck out of here. Whatever occasion. Like I'm no, there's four of us
where where's Mac? And Larry says, the wrong thing where he's like, yeah, I'm sorry, but she's probably dead and KJ's face just transforms to Terror. She's like, what do you say that? Why the fuck would you say that? Why the fuck? I know their children, their children. I mean, they're children, who are being forced into this weird adult situation, and so, cages response to this is fuck you and she steals the motorbike in the garage, which is such a lesbian
move. And rides into town to find Mac. Like what a lesbian. I love everything about that. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. Can you just love her TJ's stealing motorbikes that gets so awesome. She says like I love it. She says nothing. She's like huh. And then later you just see her riding the bike and so great. Well yeah, so when they're in the in the barn with Larry she spots the motorbike and like the Shot lingers because they're like whatever this she gonna steal it.
But her riding away and stealing it happens in episode 4. So before that kind of happens, she has this. Like she basically Hatches the quietly hatches this plan, and so she's in like one of the rooms with younger Aaron and she's like, hey, I google-mapped everything and I found Dylan's address. And I'm going to go and don't
tell anyone. And so that's so she steals the motorbike Like a typical 12 year old, and then the first scene we get after this is the scene with her at Dylan's house and she runs into Dylan's wife and this scene is so fucking cute. So if I could get because she's just like creeping outside, I try to like look inside without going inside cuz she's a kid. She has like no power. She's just learned with the Internet is and she's like, I hope this is right.
She's scared and called. Cautious as wormwood we totally totally. So we're just kind of mature and so the wife finds her and is like, hey are you Kimberly's friend? And in cages, like I don't the fuck you talking about. I do the monkey regret and then she's like, oh, Joe her friends, call her Jo. And I love that, this is cages like that. Sounds like something Mac would pick us up. He's like, yeah, Joe, Joe gender-neutral, Joe.
I love that detail and then she's like, all right, because like, she's like, we're about to die. We gotta go, we gotta do time but she's like, whatever, I'll you're the adult. I can't say no to you. Like KJ has so much guilt and she's always like Miss Manners like a lot of the time. She's the one to apologize and like, play with etiquette, which I assume she learned from home, but he or she's like, yeah. Okay, the polite thing to do is to go inside. So she she goes inside, Really
loving this scene. She has no idea. She doesn't realize she has a crush on Mac yet. She has no idea and the actress Just Nails it in this scene, like nails it. And so the excuse she get but so she has no idea. She has a crush but the excuse she gives to the wife is me and Joe got into a fight and I just wanted to apologize which is the most like couple thing ever like it's I just love it. That's the first thing that pops
into her mind. You know, it's such a it's so hilarious because she has no idea, but it sounds like she has a crush on back and like the mom gets what's happening here. And she's like, picking up the Vibes and she's like, well, I'm glad she has a girlfriend like you and that's when KJ loses it. Like she says the word and she's like start like know what know like what girls are Tenzin. We're normal were normal. Just this weird piece side thing.
It's the funniest fucking her. Spawns I've ever seen. I didn't see it like that though. Wait, did she mean it as girl? I was afraid that people were going to be like, no, she meant it. Like, girlfriend is in her friend and I'm like, even if she did that, still to KJ is going to be using different. But like I wanted to bring that cuz I thought like that, but growing up my mom and her friends would always say girlfriend like that. And on the inside, I would die.
I'm like, no, she, they're just my friend. And like, I didn't understand that. No. No, we understand this scene? Yes. KJ's Panic is so. Yeah, whether the mom meant it or not, it def it. Cause like the moms like, yeah, sure. I didn't, I didn't, I feel like a mom knows but she's like, I didn't mean it that way. Please leave thought it was. Just like, I felt the mom was a little more Progressive than me, to going to give her kind of chips it.
Yeah. Like, we know the person that she knew and she just to me. She just assumed It was like, oh yeah, these kids are this kid is gay, like it's obvious and Caitlyn, she came over on a motorcycle like listen, like, okay, for those that were confused by the scenario. Mac doesn't live here. Mac just got here yesterday. This random girl drove a motorcycle tracked. Her down to come apologize, because they got in a fight.
That's the most girlfriend. I've ever heard so like the boys should ever, it's a gay shit ever the bomb gets that. Yeah. So after KJ's adorable panicking or she's like girls were just arguing friends. We're not a friends p-side normal friends, the moms like uh huh? Yeah sure girl, regular friends, whatever whatever we can play that will play a game. We'll play that game. That's exactly what the Mom's doing. She's like cow chips. Sure, it's the kits are first gay Panic ever.
It, it's the cutest. I think we're in the time period. Where the mom would totally? Yeah. Yeah, we're in 2019 at this point. Correct. Exactly. We're not in the 80s. We're not in the 90s. Mom would understand this. Because that's the progressive thing that's happening with kids and they were Progressive family. The first thing she offers her kale chips and cages like what the hell is that? Because mom's in a different like area of progressive, this mom gets What's Happening Here.
Yeah. Because the time period changed. But I so I'm gonna let no keys. Yeah. Or like I love the realism. This was a great choice by the actress when she sits down. She gets the water and guzzles it. That's so like real because of what she was just doing. So like Kudos her. Point the yeah, she gives her all this like Health Food in cages. Like what is this? Which is being delayed taking bites? Because she's Miss Manners. She's like, okay, what is this?
Whatever you say? Yeah. She's, you know, it was definitely me. I'd be like, okay, I'll force it down. Yeah, that's KJ. It's so cute. She's so, relatable. Last thing, I want to say about this. Scene is a PSA to straight women, please stop calling platonic girls that are friends. Girlfriends. Please please, stop doing that. It's so fucking confusing and unnecessary. First of all, to gender your platonic friendships like, why are you doing this? Just their friends, because that
means something else. And when you say that to Baby gays, they react like KJ whether or not they say it out loud. Like you said Katelynn its internal where you're like? What, no, that's not we're just but didn't hear the word girlfriend. You're like what you panic immediately and you don't understand why your Like a Jew. Doesn't know why she's panicking. She's like I don't know why I'm panicking like this, but I'm panicking and I can't stop talking and I'm doing weird
stuff. Like this is what happens a little baby games on the inside, please stop doing that. It's all this is what I tell people. There are people at my work that are middle-aged will say that do this in front of me. And I always make fun of them for it just because I want them to realize that you may not have
been exposed to any gay culture. But we're gonna have this, we're going to have Of this discussion because it's a thing that happens and you can't just say shit anymore, and it be totally overlooked or whatever. Yeah, she's like, realize it. And it's not, it's not a big deal.
It's not a huge horrible thing that they're saying, it's just Why just why I understand the oldest in this binary, where you feel like you need to specify that it's your girlfriend and not another friend of a male gender or something, but it's not, it's not, it's not what it means. I feel like it comes from patriarchy crap or women. It does my friend who's a girl? Like I wasn't hanging up, man. Is that were automatically romantic for straight people
that exactly all friend. Yeah, that makes sense. And y'all who does reaction videos on our Channel with me, her when she says that. And she says a lot of things that are like patriarchal society stuff. And I'm just like, girl, I know you're a strong independent woman. I'm on it. No, it's not. It, it's not applicable anymore. Those words mean different things. Please stop. Its, it is traumatizing to gay
people. When you say that stuff, because we get confused or like, what do you mean like? What like yeah, please stop doing. In that stop gendering your platonic friendships, they're just friends, friends. PSA, you really feel the need to let people know what their gender is. Just if they've got a gender specific name, use that, I don't. Yeah, my friend Karen, what find Julie? I I feel like Janet from the good place whenever my mom introduced like this.
So, this is Caitlin and she her and her girlfriend girlfriend went and did this. I like not my girlfriend. So yeah, not a girl's girl friend. Okay, I've really funny that you mentioned Janet. I was like thinking about it in preparation for this episode. I'm like I feel like we're going to bring up Janet from the good place at some point. I just have this feeling Roxy Cardinals coming up in this episode. She's not even in this. So, thanks Caitlin.
I predicted in my brain around a little, but not here. So I love it. But yeah, why. Oh, is there another part another part? Yeah. Okay. Okay, so Zach Toombs. Amazing sir, yes she is amazing and we will gush about her in a different episode. Not about paper rolls, but back to KJ is rescuing MAC Mission.
So after the pirate shows up KJ, get the fuck out of there and gets on her super gay motorcycle and goes to the chilies and interrupts Max. This is so this scene was super heartbreaking but she interrupts Mac and Dylan's like big I love you heartfelt hug. And it's so sad because like mac is finally like getting the love. She deserves and gonna get live the life. She always wanted. And it gets ripped away from her
like by k.j. like, in Max mind. And what I love though, that like mac tries to resist her and she's like no, no like, no, no, no, but Katie when it comes to Mac, she doesn't back down. When it comes to Mac. She's like the only one who like just gets through to Mac and she does she's persistent about it and she's like, no, like The that scary woman is without your dad, with your brother's house. She's coming to kill us and she's gonna kill that. Like that's what's going to
happen here. Like, this is too important. I'm sorry, but you have to come with me. Like, I know you hate me right now, but you have to come with me. And, and it's so sad and I just, I love that it's KJ's. No, that's the one who gets through to Mac constantly, like they kind of do that for each other, which is really sweet. And because like, again, this scene is not from the comics, this was just for the show and it just, I love that. It's the two of them.
In the scene and just Mac was finally starting to accept like okay I could do this like yeah I know I know it's just so heartbreaking. A talking about adopting her. Yeah like she was in a weird but like at the same time as to happen legally. Yeah. To take care of her. Yeah and it's just it's so sad and she has no time to really process this she just gets ripped out of it so that when they're on the bike ride back,
we get these beautiful shut. This beautiful shot so sad, but So beautiful and well done and it's just not a word is spoken and it's just KJ focused on getting them back in time so they don't get left behind and Mac just breaks down like and just is hugging KJ and there's a crying on her shoulder and after a minute like A.J realizes what's happening and she's like oh shit like and it's just not a word is spoken but it's so like
Monumental countries have her so she could be vulnerable in front of it. That's huge exactly like us. With Dylan, she wasn't fully vulnerable with Dylan. She still kept walls up. They were starting to come down like with the hug with Dylan, that was like, so she was just so exposed and just stays that way with KJ. She doesn't put the walls back up yet, like it's very significant for Mac who like never puts her walls down.
Also, she went from like hugging Dylan and she's like, well, you're still a safe person for me. I just will fall to you. Like I need someone there for me right now. And she never had them. Yeah, and I love that like, hey, Jay doesn't say anything. She just lets Mac cry because, like, mac is somebody like, who doesn't cry a lot. Like, I'm like, I do, I don't
really cry a lot. And so, like, when I, when I get to that point, I don't want to fuckin talk about it and like neither does Mac and like, I think KJ understands that and just just like sees it and just like, Let Her Cry. If kid, you would have said something Max walls would have gone, right? Exactly, exactly. I think AJ Khanna understands that I feel like she's she's somebody to who A cry a lot or doesn't have people who
comforter. So kind of you know, that darkness and KJ she kind of gets this and just they're just perfect for each other, very cute. They're a lot of these characters are very good like complimentary personalities to each other. And that's why I love the dynamic of all four of them. They all kind of play off each other in these really complicated ways. That is just, it's very beautiful. Like to watch these characters interact with each other. I also feel like Mack did
realize that she didn't belong. I know it wasn't her time kind of thing. Wasn't? Yeah. And I know Wilders fault. Well, she's it is. It's a Wilder Mom, she's processing everything on the back of that motorcycle. It's just like like what do you do? There's nothing you can do. Also her being pulled from that life. She's like that was the last chance for me to have a taste of what the future could have been. Yeah, she's like well now, I will never know.
It's going back to. The situation and sad. Yeah her character is so tragic. Like ironically. No tragic. I wish we got like at least a little bit of a scene of Dylan. Realizing where is she? I think I kind of want to see like the aftermath of all that. Oh my God like you wouldn't season 2. Unless they erases Like Pirates was in there? Yeah, I think who knows? He may not have had time because she just she saw. The motorbike was like, fuck. I got to get them, so maybe she didn't.
And I feel like, I feel like Dylan I mean at first when he sees Mac, he's like he kill I can't believe what's happening and then he finally has like, all right, this is actually your real this is real. I'm not going to fuck this up, like I think that he wouldn't give up on. He would search for her forever. Like that would traumatize him all over again where he's like I'm not losing my sister again.
I'm going to look everywhere, missing persons, like he would really do. He was like, he would lose it. I think his current life would probably fall apart, I think so he would become obsessed with finding his sister. Yeah, I yeah. I think this would ruin if that's really someone can write that fiendish if you want to cry. Go right, baby. Yeah, but like so much that could be done there as well. no, it's just it's just not in the I'm sorry I'm not here for that
torture porn. Yeah. And then Wilder would show up and I don't, you know, I was just saying like it would be a story guys. I didn't say it was for everyone, I'm with you Caitlin. It's a village with the two members and a no, not against you. Dylan is I love the way they did older Dylan. He's so interesting. And just I love the evolution of their relationship and how its shown Yeah, I don't think Dylan whenever his life would fall apart, he wouldn't give up on his sister a second time.
He never actually did you know? Yeah. There's one more day before we leave the chili scene and jump on over to like young KJ, meeting old KJ. I want to go to, let's say, one last thing about this chili Zine, but I just think it's hilarious. So, when Pirate shows up and like goes into the restaurant and was like approaching Dylan, and then sees them on the motor motor bike, she turns and runs and gets the fuck out of there.
And deliberately runs this poor service worker who's carrying dishes, and I'm like, girl, you didn't need to knock that person over. That person does not get paid enough for this. She like runs she like purposely like runs into them instead of going to the door. And justice for service work. This is all I'm saying, that was not. I don't know what time you're in. That is not cool. You treat them with respect at all, don't know the kid, right? It's like, why did you have to eat the door?
Was Come on, out Pirates. That's fucked up. It respires whatever your goddamn name is Andres lunch bag. I feel like it's easier to say it really, really is petition to change her name to Indra. Well. I can't wait. Any did I need to get into baby? Kale? And. All right, so we're going to get to probably the biggest comic book deviation that there is and that's young KJ and old KJ because in the comics we never
see old KJ at all. We see a version of Old of KJ who's older but it is an actually her. It's like I'm not even gonna get into it but like this all of this, none of this happened. I'll KJ never learns her future never. So we don't actually know what happens to her. So all of this was manufactured for the show and it is the most brilliant choice I have ever seen in anything. And this is what made me fall in love with the show. Was this because it's so
brilliant. It is, it is so, where does it start? So this is all on episode 4. They end up in 1999 and it's this Fourth of July party
happening at KJ's house. So we all get to like literally step inside the mansion that quote unquote that KJ lives in everybody, gets a walk in her life and kg it takes her a while to finally like go in because I think kg doesn't really want to see her future because there's a line with when she's talking to Erin when she's hatching the rescue Mac plan when Aaron's Like why aren't you curious about your future? You're the only one who doesn't say anything.
And KJ has this really heartbreaking sentiment where she's basically like, because I'm not curious about my future because if my mother got her way like I don't want to see that, I don't want to see my future. The one that my mom is planning for me, I don't want to see myself. What he's basically saying is I do I know I'm going to be unhappy if my mom gets her way and I don't want to see that.
Like there's no hope for my future kind of think she just feels like the Futures the walls cause it's out of her control Mama's control in her life. So she really Hesitates before going in here. And so keeping that in mind, I love how this unfold because KJ sees herself, well, and high. She grabs Mac because lesbian and hide and is watching her older self. Talk to this preppy dude. This douchebag kind of looking dude and Mac comments, like oh she's like hey this she's you know.
Not a hockey freak like not what I was expecting but kg doesn't seem surprised me that. She's like, this is what my mom wanted, like, see, I see the way I'm dressed, I'm talking to this guy. I hate this guy and she keeps saying it out loud. Like, I hate this guy. I hate this guy, like she doesn't know this guy, but hates him. And especially in Mexico, that
guy really wants you. And she's like, no, no, no. Like I, I'm reacting badly to this and I don't know why quite yet, but I hate everything about this. My mom got away and it really like, escalates when mom shows up to Old KJ and she's like, oh, isn't she so pretty? And like, do you want to date? Her is basically mom's trying to auction off her daughter to this like entitled white dude. And what I love is that older caging starts cringing Nope.
Nope. Because you can see older cages not happy, mom has her influence and she just starts being like, you don't have to be, we don't have to like you don't have to be polite. Don't have to be polite. Like really like, leave me alone. Dude. Leave me alone. And older Cajun Aid. Makes us excuse. She's like, I need to check on my friend, which is code for girlfriend. If you're gay.
You're like my friend who's not down here and she's like I'm gonna go buck by And what I really, really love about this whole interaction here. Is that what's happening? Really is like old KJ is like living though is like acting the way mom wants her to act, but young KJ is giving us older kgs like inner monologue, like she's saying, all the things out loud that she can't say when she's trapped in these positions.
So like older cages. Like I hate this guy and younger K. Just sitting there. I fucking hate this guy hates. She's saying, what's an older KJ's brain? So I I love the way they're doing this, because what it seems like it seems like cages life doesn't change. Like this is, it's all the fucking same. Like she's still keeping up
appearances. Like mama taught her and she's miserable doing it. Like, you can see older KJ doing these things were, she like looks away and she's like, I hate this like and younger Cadiz voicing out out loud, how older KJ feel. So it seems like they're on the same page the way like younger Tiff and older Tiff for kind of very similar but later KJ finds out.
That's not really the case. It's like she's doing that because she's still playing nice with mom is basically what still happening but she fucking still hates it, right? Huh. Like I'm watching it is so yeah that's why it's so meta in a way. Yes. It's, that's the part where I really enjoyed the time. Travel aspect of the show was this very moment. We're young, KJ is like, nope, nope, nope. And older and older KJ. And her head is like, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay gay.
Yeah, really literally, but younger KJ doesn't have the language for that yet. So she's just fucking hate this. I hate this. She keeps saying it. And older cages like I could be making up with girlfriend gasps to this douchebag, you know, if the parents know that she's gay or what her mother be doing this, if she was no, I'm pretty sure KJ hides that from her. Yeah well I mean I just didn't know if like she knew but she was still trying to push guys on
her. Well, I mean that could very well be but I could be I feel like at this point, I think they would hold I also feel like if that was the case Lauren would not be allowed in that house. Hell yeah. You know that Mama seems like the type that would be like no. She's the one that made you gay. She's not allowed in my house. Like Mom gives me that energy, you know. Yep. Those totally how I see it too. So I really yeah. Totally under the she's in the
closet. Yeah. From Her Mama. She's in the closet. I feel like in New York. She's like yeah, she found her people. Like, you know, in New York she's got the big gay energy. She's got a big AMG everywhere but I love her. She's so relatable. Yeah. So that seeing I giggled my way through that seen me do I loved every moment inside of kjzz house I'll just put it that way. Katie's dog like that.
Okay, first that has nothing to do with the gay stuff and I wasn't going to bring this up but Would break my heart to be like my dog, at the end of their life. Like she had her as a puppy and then jumps 10 years in the future, and you're like, and like struggling to walk. And now, I'm so sad but I love that. The dog is like, j.j. Like the dog knows her like, yeah, dude. Mom it's so cute, ouch, but I love that you said that this was so mad at like, honestly like
yes, this is the thing. I appreciate like I Like the time travel fighting stuff is cooler, whenever I like it more. So, in just this, the planes are here, the storytelling aspect because you get to see these like interactions. It wouldn't be possible. Any other types of? Can you hear the plans? Yeah, it's Fleet Week, everyone look it up. Welcome to Fleet Week, welcome to Fleet Week. It's starting later than normal.
So you're going to hear essentially there are fighter jets flying over my house and you're gonna just gonna keep hearing them. I can't control them. Call your Congressman, I guess, or Miller. Anyway, so hungry. Alright, so we're going to leave the downstairs party if that's cool with you guys, and go upstairs. Yes. All right. So this is kg part where we wanted to go to. This is where we wanted to.
Yes. So cages, curiosity gets the better of her when she's finally in the house and she's like, What is my like, what is my life? Because I'd already looks terrible and she ends up going up the stairs to where her bedroom is. And, as she's doing that, she passes, like I love the setup because she passes all these pictures of herself. It's her playing field hockey, which is like the only picture where she genuinely looks happy. Then it's her in the bottom.
It's the dress. The one that was hanging in the closet and then it's her with a boy at prom, so she's getting all these pictures of like fuck. My mom got exactly what you wanted. She's seeing it in this hallway. She's like my mom and my mom. This is what my mom always said. My life was going to be. She picked my clothes crap. I'm really living her life like fuck and they should go sir room. Also, to hide to be like her safe place in the house, probably was room and she's
like, I need to go to my room. Yeah. And then she goes to her room. And she first of all, the first thing you see, is this what? Femme Nikita poster in her room? I know it was the first thing I was like, Hey, and Kate and kitten. Like these are movies that don't exist and in cages, Room did not have posters on it, so she's like, what the fuck is this? And it's trying to figure out what it is because she doesn't know what love Femme. Nikita is other than like girl, you gay?
Like that's what. Yeah, that's what it means. I do know what is that? It seems to be show. Oh, was it? It was both. I think hers was the movie poster but yeah, it was teenager coaster. Yeah, I just figured that Caitlin. May be more familiar with the TV show. I know nothing at all. So the movie Was better, obviously, but there's a movie in a TV show. The TV show is more. Widely known. Just it's a Thing. If you it was it was a gay thing when we were. Yeah, I'm using Google. Go ahead.
All right, Caitlin educate. All right so then she goes into the room and she's staring at this poster. Trying to figure out what's happening the camera pans and we see there's somebody else in the room and it's Lauren who's kgs future girlfriend. So again The Meta shit happening here too, is like crazy and I love it.
And basically The back, we never get cages backstory and I love the choice instead of like with Tiffany and Aaron where they get their backstory from themselves KJ, never gets that. She gets her future read to her by her future girlfriend and I love this too. Lauren is adorable and I love this choice and Lauren basically tells her that like kg took control of her life. Like you take eventually, you take control of your life, you go to NYU, you don't go to
business school. Like your mom said you follow, Your passion, which is movies. And you don't do things exactly the way your mother wanted. So like, even though KJ is currently downstairs, like keeping up appearances, from Mom at Mom's party for the neighbors to like put on airs or whatever. You actually got out of here and went made your own wife and like Cajun can't even believe this. She's like white like I and I love. And she's like do you like movies in cages? Like I guess so.
I guess like because watching movies wasn't clearly a thing when she was younger. And she's like I didn't really think about this as a career because mom was just like you're going to go to business school and all this and she's like I guess like because I end up making movies like, I guess this
is what I wanted. So it's like she's learning all this stuff about herself that she never thought was even possible and is kind of trying to process that and then she's like, okay, I need to get out of here for a minute and Lauren's like hey, you To come to the movies with me and KJ because we're going to go watch this like artsy movie that's gonna make you love film basically. Wow. Why I love film? Come see it? Which again they have shared interest so it's because they're
dating. So it's going to make sense like she's gonna love it too. So I love that and in cages like being polite just like I had to ask my parents for just such a total of real thing to do and she like politely backs out of there and she's like I hope to see your move your name on a poster one day so fucking cute. It is Adorable. It's so cute and so like, I know it's so polite but also like, again, it's you telling your future girlfriend.
I hope you make it one day. Like it's just the metal thing is super cute to like hey just consciously like nice to her and has no idea what it's horrible and then and then and then KJ tries to leave and then older cages coming up the stairs. So she's like, Fuck. I don't want it. I don't want to meet me. Fuck this and heís because like, again, cages progression is like, she gets to the precipice of figuring out, what's happening in the car.
Like Retreats and processes and that's what keeps happening with her. So, she's like boxes. Should it be meeting themselves? I agree, I learned nothing from Legends of tomorrow. No, well they it didn't come out yet in 1989 or idiot. So they were bombs going on 98 99 and 99. So all right so kg hides in the
bathroom so I love that. You said that the bathroom is like you're safe place, Cajun runs the bathroom and like, okay again she's the one to beat herself but she's like I'm gonna watch this because damn, I really like when I'm away from my mom because clearly I'm different and she watches herself interact with Lauren and it's It's the cutest like flirting shit that starts happening like full-on flirting and then they start making out and cages like wait, why it's
like, wait, wait wait wait, what? I'm gonna walk source of the bathroom and then goes through the five stages of gay grief, like a panic, all up and down. Yeah, she the actress again fingernails and she takes up the whole space in the bathroom. She like falls in the corners like what the fuck and starts pacing and goes to the seat. Like she takes a ball. That space and like, this is so real. Like the way she like plays it out is so real, very accurate. It's so accurate.
And I love the choice that they like when she gets to the mirror and like looks at herself, they let her really play it out and she it's like everything slows down when she's looking at herself because before that, she's like this can't be real. This can't be real. And then she looks at herself in the mirror and she her breath start like evening. B shirts coming down and you start seeing like the wheels turning and she thinks about it. She's like Fuck.
Like is this it is, is this why I don't fit it like is there's some truth to this. Like I feel like there's some truth to that and I love that they really let her process and sit in it. Because oftentimes when characters like young characters or characters are having their first like, gay realization, kind of moment, it's always just like immediate panic and then it like goes away but like they
really like cake. AJ sit in it and like have that initial freak out and then like slow down for a minute and be like huh shit no this kind of makes sense you know like you can like see it on her face her being like fuck yeah wait yeah that's clicking into place that's cooking into place. Yes like little pieces of her life that keep hauling exactly what happens to you directly. Wow. Okay. So that's why that and that's why that yeah you know, when you have those will have those Yes,
you're like oh yeah. That was really gay that I was doing. Yeah. This makes sense. This makes and I told you about holding the hands with the girl at soccer and getting in trouble if that's okay. Just remember just like that's why I like that girl my field hockey team a little too much like you know, she's having those thoughts and she's like Fuck that's why I hated that guy downstairs. Like, that's why. When everyone talks about boys,
I don't give a shit. Yeah, I don't fit in with that. Oh, I hate to go remember having those Conversations with people under like, uh-huh. I don't get this. My mom always brings up when I shoved a kid on a, on the playground for try to kiss me like there's like, oh my God, he's so cute and I'm like, okay sure. Fine, what the fuck ever mean? He's got a face.
Like I don't, I think something is wrong with me because I'm like all the girls are saying, like this kid is cute and I'm just like, no, I never even thought there was anything wrong with me so much as I I was just like, Okay, sure. No, I'm not analyzing that. Goodbye. I got to like high school and I'm like, why don't I like anybody? Okay, and that's so real. And this is why having representation like this matter
so fucking much. Because when you don't when you that's what cages processes, she's like something's wrong with me and I don't know what it is and here she's like Oh, not that there's anything wrong with the first, she's like, oh, is it wrong? But like, she's but it feels right, like I look happy. I that I think that's the thing that really gets her. She's like I look happy with her. I'm happy. Like and when your interests are you and I love it.
Yeah yeah. But like for so many people especially like think about a cages from like she's growing up in like the 90s basically as a kid 80s 90s. This there's no representation for KJ. KJ. Wouldn't know? This is okay. That's why it's like, she probably had no idea until she went to New York, where it's more of an artsy place where more queer people are. That's where Stonewall happened. There's more queer
representation happening. I Kaitlyn And so kg probably wasn't exposed to this as an option for herself until she went to film School almost like oh, there's other people like me and probably met Lauren. I was like, oh, you're like me, this is okay, like this is why I like being exposed to this and seeing kids process this in like that. It's okay. This is an option is so fucking important and yeah, screw all the people who don't think it is
yeah it matter. I love that love it, that okay, so my Whole gay realization was because of another was because of a crush on another person and that's sort of the case where a lot of people. But what I love is that KJ gets the gay realization because of KJ just to see her. Making out with a girl in the future. It is like like so she doesn't know what the fuck. Yeah, it's literally that's me doing that. That's me. That's me. It's not okay. It's okay. I'm gay as fuck.
Okay, I have to pause here and say this is something that actually does happen in the comics in which cages realization is KJ, seeing KJ, being gay and being like, fuck, I'm gay, but instead of like all the stuff, Up with Lauren. Kg sees herself kissing back and it's like oh oh oh shit immediately put them together. Yeah and then yeah, kg is on like, oh okay. So I'm a lesbian and there's no processing it. She's just like so that's going to happen. Yeah.
She's just like yeah. And then like Is it later that will go to that one later but she just like fully accepts it like? Yeah, yeah. It's kind of weird. So I again prefer this because the addition of Lauren was brilliant. Sorry the fucking point. The addition of Lauren is really brilliant and the fact that we have the scene in the bathroom where KJ is processing this I feel like that's something that gets glossed over with queer stuff.
A lot is processing shit. It's just leapfrogging right into the the drama of like homophobia and like what does it mean a my parents hate me. And it's like, you never get to see them like process. This like this is I thought the scene was so unique and beautiful and well done, and I just, it's so important like to just see her be like, okay, it's my favorite scene in the whole series. It's so fucking good this. Yeah, I agree. This is actually, this is easy. This is the best scene and I
love the next scene. We're about to go into because the movie theater scene. Okay, anything else. Okay, I don't know which one actually, I don't know. And I like - just let's get into it. I know, I know I just again the addition of Lauren like I just love it so much. I love life. I love Lauren. Okay. So now we're going to go to the movie theater scene. Everything about the scene is absolutely brilliant as well. So kudos to whoever came up with this, it is just everything.
So again at this point, kg still has no idea how her life is really going to turn out the way it does. She just understands things happen like film school girlfriend. and, But she doesn't understand like why it's happening or like how so she's like, still curious about herself because in her life, she's trapped in Israel and she feels very Doom. But she's saying like maybe
maybe maybe I'm not so doomed. And so she goes into this movie theater and when she first gets in there like actually in the theater, was it worth playing? She looks like terrified and excited. All at. Once at this point KJ doesn't fully understand how she got how she's going to grow up to be this lesbian and phone school. So she's like, how did I get here? What is going on? So she goes to the movie theater, like, takes Lauren up on our offer, goes to see the
Kubrick movie. And when she gets in the theater like where it's playing, she looks terrified and excited. Because again that's that's like the future, right? The future is terrifying and excited. It's just all at once on her face and she sees herself. She's herself sitting with Lauren and she sits behind them, like, doesn't go up to them and just as, like, kind of still observing, because she still, like, how do I get here? She's doesn't fully to. Yeah, it was weird awesome.
You wouldn't join yourself cages. The only one who understands Time travel. You don't go sit with yourself. Don't do that, but like against you in the room with them, it don't, you do. Just don't if you're gonna go, sit in the back, but I love that they do this because it gives you some really cool shots of just like KJ. Again, you see so much about gold KJ and young age and they never actually interact with each other. So, this was a good film film
wise as a really good choice. And so at first, when she sits down she's not there for the movie, she's watching herself and Lauren like she's fixated on that because again she's like what the fuck, how and older KJ is like being cute with Warren. She's like, putting her arm over her shoulder and they're like snuggling in the dark and like cages being the one that initiates it. So, she's being like, affectionate like out, like, in the dark.
And immediately younger KJ is watching this and starts panicking, like she did before, she starts having those really Panicked breaths like, she's in the bathroom, but then, she looks up from them and actually watches the movie. And, as she's doing this, like, the music starts, swelling, and young KJ starts becoming absorbed in the movie, and you can see the shift occurring on her face because she's starting
to connect with the film. And ultimately becomes a very swept up in the art and by the time he like cut back to her in this movie theater, she is just fully engrossed in the movie. Like she's not even watching herself like she is watching this movie and there's a shot of just like from the front of the stage and you can see that young cage. An old cage are both like engrossed in the smooth. Like they're having the same like experience with this art.
Like you can see it like that. They're the same person, they're connecting with this art. Art and to me, I thought that was so relatable because like, that's literally why we have this podcast because having like a connection with art is just so it's such a human thing and it's so beautiful. And I love that you just see the two sides of KJ having this experience at the same time with the movie.
It's it's incredible. And in that moment you're like that's how young it k. J becomes old KJ, like you can like see the transition happening. It's so cool. Yep, and I wanted more. selfishly wanted more of I just wanted my entire story of kjzz that now I want it to I mean if we all have on it yeah I literally just want a story. I want the whole story of future KJ. Yes.
And I want the story of how KJ seeing future, KJ effects KJ's seriously seriously because like I love the cage and math stuff but I also love KJ Lawrence I can't lie like I know you. Oh, she's so sad. That would be. So technically at this point Mac is going to yes. Mac has been gone for or about The I think, hey, Jays first film should be about. Realizing how the fuck gaeshi trolling that? I mean, yeah, I would watch that
also. So there's just, there's a sequel to cater is her actual movie. Come on, somebody pick this up. Like I want all of those things. All of them. Come on. Just give Fina her own show. Based serious. Yeah, she just Nails this part. It's so crazy. How good? Again, the crazy. Good actors. I love her. I would love to talk to you. I want to know if she thinks damn it. He to yes. I want us to talk to her so bad me to write. I'm trying guys. We're trying tweet her.
Oh yeah Tweeter for us please. Yes please. And if for some reason we do get her before. Then we'll put a note in here about sex. Leave her alone, they run. Okay. So then then then then we get to the big big, big scene after the movie experience ends. And this scene is just the actual cutest and it's cages big tossed with Lauren and everything about. This is just perfection and I love that KJ exit the movie exits.
The movie first and is just creepily waiting for them to come out when she's playing with a pamphlet, she's like I'm good and once again she waits for older self to get the fuck out of there and she's witnessing another scene where like older KJ is being like affection. It was Lauren like she almost like leans in like she's gonna kiss her butt and it's like oh shit, we're in public and then goes to the bathroom and Lauren's like all right. Yeah, I'm going to get food.
So she gets another glimpse of like, I'm so fucking happy in the future, like she's like, seeing it play out. So, like so many times and again, I just feel like, happiness is such a rarity for young KJ. She's just like, So fixated on this and that's I think that's what's really drawing her into this like story. She's like, well I'm happy I can't believe this. I keep seeing it. So she needs to know how do I
get here? So she goes to Lauren and she like awkwardly, he's like hey it's fucking cute. It's such a kid thing. She's like yeah. Like I don't want to bother you but I need to talk to you and Lauren is like the sweetest music. I did that planet. You're looking just like, hey, it just such a nervous. Hello. And and she like, again, miss polite like there's small talk about the movie and I want to note this dialogue because I think it's important that this perceives what they're about to
talk about. And Lauren asks her like, oh well, you came to the movie. What did you think of it and kg says? Well, it first I was kind of confused but then I stop thinking about it And I listen to the music, I wash, what was on the screen and it was really beautiful, and she's putting into words like this religious experience. You can have like, with art But I think she's also talking about the process of realizing you're
gay. That's what this because the whole thing they use movie as a metaphor. And she's this dialogue is indicating with our exactly about the start talking about and Lauren again as another career woman Echoes this because she had the same experience, she's like, it's a movie, you cannot comment, logically, you just have to let the experience wash over you. And that's exactly what realizing you're gay is. It's like, you can think through it as much as you want.
But at some point, you just the Stop and it and just be like, okay, okay, a feeling after you just You just feel better? Yeah. And that's, that's what. Yes, exactly. And again, movie is code for being queer and they use that the whole rest of this conversation. And I'm just, I want to add it a discussion Point here before we get into the rest of it to like. Okay, so is this what you guys kind of felt like when you were like coming out or coming to terms with it?
Like sometimes like for me like it was a lot of like internal processing and almost having this feeling of being like trapped in your own head. Because you really have anybody else to talk to about it because it's like big and scary and like at the time like it was frowned upon, I mean it gets still frowned upon in certain circles and you're just like you're just like spiraling with your own thoughts, right? And you're like, what the fuck like you like, is this what it
is? This is what it is. And I don't know. Did you guys like coming out? No it's exactly like that I'll get into more on my episode topic because we have to kind of save these stories. Okay. I was A weird. Mine was just weird because it was taking place at a time where there was a lot going on, but it was more I don't know that I had the outright fear, I kept it in my head because I knew I couldn't say it out loud, but I don't know in a way once I realized that that was the truth.
It gave me a lot of peace. And so I didn't need to say it out loud. Yet, the scary part came afterwards when things happened. Like my roommate college roommate, trying to save me and other things that I'll talk about it later date. But that's when the fear came, when it had to be public or when someone guessed that, that was what was going on and then acted. Okay, but secretly stabbed me in the back about it.
So that's when that came and thanked fucking goodness that the mutual friends that we had basically told her to stop being a dick head. It's like, and we're like, so what? Like, I'm like best. First of all one thing you're saying isn't true. And secondly. So what gate that's fine. If she's gay just like that's not a problem. So she didn't get the response that she wanted from our mutual friends, good for your mutual friends. And so she saw people out on our campus that were More like
minded. Minded fundamental it. She is like in the if I'm like you pick the dumbest. People this to lie about me too because these are like the two most Open-minded and kind of, I mean, like my friend, Kelly wore crazy bowling shirts every day to school and like be shiny ass patent leather, like shoes and like fancy 50s men's clothes and shit. I'm like, you picked the wrong people. Love that. So it was. Yeah, go ahead. No, I was like, so that's I think the fear is so relatable,
but I don't I didn't have that. Feeling of this is wrong to me and my body. I just had the feeling of that explains things. And I guess I'm in my brain. I'm just like, fuck ever. Like I know what I am and I don't feel wrong. So I'm not wrong. I don't know where that came from, but I still had it 16:17. I mean, at least. That's good that you thought. Yeah. Mine was definitely internalized and even once I realized I could not say it out loud, it took me
so long. It was a very long journey and I'll get into it and two episodes from now. I think it'll be okay. That's definitely is definitely what's happening here like with KJ. It's very much like again, the first step is like, admitting it to yourself. And once you do that, you're kind of in this better like emotional place because like Brie said, you're like oh that all makes sense. And I love the metaphor that Lauren gives her.
It's like, it's like beings. And what we saw with the movie, it's like being swept up in a piece of art, like one, So you just let it wash over you and you're like, wow, this makes sense in. This is really beautiful and like I'm happy now like that's kind of cages Journey, but then later in a later scene, like when kg like, has to say it out loud, like that's a struggle, that's a different kind of
struggle. So like the first struggle is like making sense of it to yourself and then communicating it to other people. That's a different problem and people process that very differently. So I love that. They show both facets of k.j. in her, in her journey because it's not a one thing. It's not One light bulb goes off in your like, oh that's it.
Here, I'm gay. It's a it is a process and there's multiple steps in this process and and it's such a cute kid thing because she like seeks out an adult. Like she's always like, we should ask adults and so she does go try to ask an adult like what? Like and she yeah she has. He finally like what she gets. The courage to ask the more in like a really reason she's there. Like she's never said, anything like this out loud before. It's so obvious. And she's just trying to be so brave.
And she's just like, when did you know? Because she's like, I see. Me doing this. But like, how do I know that this is real? Like, when, when, when do you know this? Like, like when and, and Lauren doesn't really understand what she's getting at and Katie tries again. And that's when she's like, when did you know? You were someone who liked and she's so fucking notice. He still can't say it. Yeah. So she says, movies instead of saying, when did you know, you
were someone who liked girls. She's just says movies because like, she can't even say it. Like, that's scary. Like, the way she said that Fina your life, He's hurt. She brought it all through. Hurt their voice acting. And so it has not landed and it just she was so perfect. Yeah, it just expression and everything. Yes, it just everything. She does conveys. Exactly what that feels like trying to say it and you can't.
And, and so immediately, she gets nervous and starts panicking and then Lauren's like movies, got it. I understand what that like to Lauren's credit. She picks up. Exactly what's going on with little cage. He's like, okay, okay. And what I love here is that like Lauren first, she starts to
talk and then she stops herself. So I feel like Lauren is about to launch into a story to be like, well, when I was young, but then she stops herself because like this conversation is not about more in this conversation about KJ. So instead of doing that, she goes along with the movie metaphor, that KJ brings up, which is so sweet. Because again, she's not clearly this kid, it feels like is afraid and can't even voice this out loud.
So she's like gets on her level and she's like, okay, movies. When did I know? I liked movies. How can I frame? This in a way, that goes with your metaphor, mmm, to This Little Child. And her answer is so perfect, and poignant, and she's just says, the good news. Is that everyone moves at their own pace? And it can be overwhelming, but every person's journey is different.
You know, a lot of people are not going to understand it first and this is when the Lorenz voice changes and she starts getting really passionate into it. And she's like, but one day, like you're going to find a movie that you really connect with, and it feels really, really, really, really good. Just try to listen to that. Like it just basically telling her like, follow your feelings
and like, trust what you feel. Like like like in the movie don't think about it so much, just feel it and like Let It wash over you. That's exactly what she's saying. Like the choice of words, here are so fantastic. It's so, so it's just so it's so nice because she's already done that.
Literally, but okay, I love the choice that it's Lauren instead of KJ telling KJ this because older PJ can just be like lesson when you're 13, you're going to kiss some girl and like Moonlight, but my mom's gonna get mad like, she can tell her the whole way exactly what's going to happen. But Lawrence just like, Trust your feelings. That's all she tells her just trust your feelings. And you know, people are not going to stand at first but like
it's going to feel great. And I also love that it's Lauren because Lauren is basically talking about KJ in this scene also. It's just the meta here is so fucking cute because like she lights up when she's with with KJ. It's adorable, like everything about this is so sweet, it's okay to more natural for it to be Lauren to. Yes, I agree. We don't get the complication to learn. Please. Yeah. And well, this actress is so fucking good. Like she was she was half the reason this worked.
Come on. No, I agree on that. Oh my God. Yeah, the addition of Lauren, Her speech was just every everyone who's questioning themselves needs to hear that about anything. Listen to this speech, like it so applicable to so many things. It's like, I don't want to do what my parents want me to do.
Listen to the speech. Like, You're not gonna understand like but listen to how you feel, like it's your life kind of thing, and if you love it, you'll you connect with it. It's going to feel really good. Listen to that like, it's so it's Universal like what she says. It's so whoever wrote this, give them an award for this. Like this writing was a point.
I want to know what happens at like, if I would like to have seen Lauren figure it out or know that she's talking to Young KJ, but not until after she gives Her all the good advice. Uh-huh. Are you too? That's the one. Good thing. She's my girlfriend. How did Lauren not bring up to adult KJ after the party? Like oh I'm not your cousin. That's older kg was distracting Lauren and so that didn't come on this movie theater. She told her cousin was just here. Exactly.
It happened here because they're in public. But you can see that adult KJ is very distracting when she's around, she distracts, learn very easily. Listen KJ has game, that's all. Yeah, I could see that too. Kate, I have when you have a series of KJ just wooing, Lauren, just want that. Okay? Jane College. Yes. Oh my God is why you and she's on a gay clubs and drag bitches the Phoenix of Billy basically about to be college-age to.
So I feel like we just need to write, write our own movie about this. The Adventures of KJ KJ because, you know, anyway, I just Give some, I just, this scene was everything. I was like, I know I get tired of all of the, the coming out stuff, but this is like the freshest cake. Yeah, any of that. I'm so glad you like it. I couldn't agree more. Honestly, like, yeah, the way again, literally, that. That's what has he struck me about the show.
Okay. It's also because KJ's from a time period that I relate to Total and this not only that, then you come the point where she's actually realizing she's gate is the time period that I was realizing, I was gay. So, we're in this like, World of she walks into her room. And there are all these posters were movies that I know. Like, we're like, so it's like being in that position. Again, you live in cages timeline, that's what it is.
What it is. Yeah, I again agree, this was such a fresh take on coming out for 12 year old because it's a differently to different process for a twelve-year-old for an 18 year old for 30 year old. They're all different processes and like this one was H. I want to talk about. Yes. And this one was just handled. So masterfully, I can't get over it.
It's so I am at this appoint where I'm over media that's centered around the coming out stuff because I feel like that's always what it's focused on and not that those stories aren't important and it's not, we should stop telling those
stories. It's just like I wanted, I want a different facet of like queer representation in media but this blew me away because I while it is coming out, its Morse, not just like I'm coming up and realizing it's the full a it's the full process it. A realization. It's the full problem. We don't always get, we don't get the full process. It's always just the coming out and the backlash and that's usually what the conflict is. That's the thing is, I don't think we're tired of coming out
stories. Were tired of the same coming out, correct? The same format for them. This one was so refreshing. And just, I never would have pictured it through the lens of a twelve-year-old. But it's just because like she has no idea what any of this even means. And then like gets look. Imagine that imagine being twelve-year-old you like I'm unhappy. I don't know why then you See yourself doing this thing and you're like, well, I have two
fought like it's kind of fucked. Actually everything about it. Like it's such a like what? And but just to see her go through the process of grappling, all of that, getting this advice. And then write even at this point at the, when she leaves the movie theater, she's still not like fully there yet. She still has she still has to keep processing it. Like I love that. It's just the full progression of processing to realization by Caitlin. Okay.
Is that the stopping point for this episode? Are we done with the scene? Yes, I can talk. That's enough. I don't want to be done. I don't want to leave Laura and I love her so much. I love this. How can you keep talking? Like, it's just gonna be the same thing over and over. I love it. I love it so much. This is this really this really touched me? This whole seen the movie metaphor, like, all of it was beautiful. I need the both of them to come
on the podcast. So he just tell them how amazing they are. I know seriously, there weren't even be questions. I just feel like we loved you so much. Holy crap, you're amazing. Please let us know what you guys think. Yes. What did you think of the scene? I would love to know and KJ's story period all just KJ all KJ yes at and he know we found you're going to get two episodes out of this thing. Next time, I'm sorry energy
actually what did she say? We'll finish the cage and back stuff because we started with it and then it got into the kjk. It just going in order. Next time on energy, it's actually the cage a Mac. So if we keep lying to you and these episodes, if you're still listening to us, thanks. Thanks and come again. Yes. Drinking hydrophones me, Jesus. Oh, yeah. Don't forget. Finishing my glass for that scene because lucky, Jesus ourselves to wrote that.
I'll finish my friends, he had, I finished for our friends who have followed us from motherland. Believes who is Yuna? Yes, ooh, ooh. There you go. There you go. Until next time guys. Bye. Bye. And with that, we've been big gay energy, if you liked this episode check out all of our other episodes on whatever you're using to listen right
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