Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy. I'm Caitlin. And I'm Theora. Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media. Representation matters, and we're. Here to talk about it. Cheers, queers. What's on the big gay agenda today, Theora? Today we are talking about a long anticipated and very beloved super gay show called Our Flag Means Death. Oh gosh, how the heck of snow. OK, so this is a show that like, I've been pestering Caitlin
about. And like, Caitlin, the show's really funny. We should watch it. We should watch it. We should watch it. And then a bunch of people started following us on Twitter and I was like, we definitely have to watch it now. So here we are talking about our flag. But it's not like I was saying, no, we're not. And we would just. We just have a lot. We would, yeah. We're very busy with filming, so
here we are. All right, so basically, we're going to spend many episodes going through the two seasons of our Flag Means Death. If you haven't watched it and don't want to be spoiled, just stick around in the beginning for the first like 5-10 minutes and we'll do like a spoiler free review. If you don't know what it's about, to kind of give you a heads up and you can decide whether or not you want to watch it afterwards. We will be spoiling everything for the first episode to the
very, very last. But don't worry, we will give a warning when we get there. Yes, and we may have a guest throughout our Our flag Means death coverage. You may know her as Zoe. No, she her name is Zoe. Even know her as Zoe, 'cause that's her name. She's been in our reaction videos. Yeah, that's what I was trying. So you may know her from our
reaction videos. It's been a long day already, but it's going to get longer so. Before we get into our non spoiler section, I need to do what I am always doing, but this is the first. Anyway, let me just read this if you're watching. If you're watching this podcast on YouTube, be sure to subscribe to our channel. Give this video. Like drop a comment below to show your thoughts. We absolutely love hearing from
you. For our podcast listeners, please download this episode and leave a review if you can. Your engagement helps us reach a broader audience and spread the joy of queer content. Also, share the link to a friend you never know. Share it to one person and they might relate to it and feel seen. That's the goal for even more exclusive queer content. Early access to videos and full reaction videos to our flag means death and others. Join us on Patreon.
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Lastly, stay connected with us on all social media platforms by following at Big Gay Energy Pod. Your interactions mean the world to us, and these actions contribute to our ongoing celebration of queer media and advocacy for better representation. Woo Yay, Caitlin.
And if you have suggestions of things you'd like us to cover, people you'd like us to interview, books you'd like us to read and talk about, leave them in the comments like we we're Our goal is to find out about new queer media, too, so please help enlighten us and give us new things to talk about. And another reason to join the Patreon, Well, one, you get access to all our flag means to
death. Well, all interviews day early, but we also ask our Patreon for questions before we ask Twitter. Sometimes we don't ask Twitter if we have enough people on Patreon asking questions for. Interviews is what we're talking. Yes, for interviews. Sorry, it's Fiora is here to clarify for my brain. And we also ask like what content do you want? So like Patreon gets access to like, influencing what we do
basically before anyone else. So if you wanna influence the Big Gay Energy Podcast, become a Patreon and. It's only cost 5. Dollars a month, 5 doubloons. So that's that. Now we're going to jump into our flag means death. So if you've never watched it and you want to watch it, it is currently, at the time of this recording, streaming on HBO Max. And yes, I'm going to use that term because I refuse to call it Max because that's a stupid name for a streaming service. I I mean, it is the title
though. HBO Max. HBO Max all offense because they cancelled our flag means death before they can complete their third and final season. OK, so, so don't let that deter you. Honestly, it ends in a place that's like it tells a story. It doesn't feel like if you didn't know, like, anything about the show and you watched it, you're like, oh, this is the this is a good ending. This is where it's meant to end.
Yes. It's not like Warrior Done, where one person jumps in a portal and the other one doesn't and they don't get to say I love you to each other. It doesn't end like that at all. It actually is pretty satisfying. That may has well been a barrier gaze thing. That literally was the act. It was a terrible ending. Like, come on now. Anyway, So Caitlin, would you like to tell tell everybody about what our flag weed death is?
Sure, based on the true adventures of 18th century, would be pirate would be pirate Steve Bonnett. Wow. Pirate. This is what Google says after trading in the seemingly charmed Life of a gentleman for one of a swashbuckling Buccaneer, Steed becomes captain of the pirate ship Revenge. Struggling to earn the respect of his potentially mutinous
crew, Steed's fortunes change. After a fateful run in with the infamous Captain Blackbeard, Steed and crew attempt to get their ship together and survive life on the high seas. I'm sorry, that sounds really funny. Get your ship together. I'm so funny to do it. You're right. Get your ship together. You're right. Stop with the merch. There's so many designs I have to make.
I need people to. If you want any of these designs that we've talked about in our reaction videos, if you haven't checked those out, make sure you do. And anything we talk about here, please let me know because if there's no interest I'm not going to bother, but if you are interested in what these and they were Co captains. And they were Co captains. Turning something into whatever I have to go back. There's a whole. Record. Let us know. What is it? Get your ship together.
Get your ship. Together, Yes, so so. Moving on in a non spoilery way, how would you describe our flag? Me and Seth, using up to 3 words, I would say lawless queer joy. I just. I forgot what I wrote. I know. OK, so mine is Queer Pirate's Pirate with a question mark on the end. And Zoe's not here, but I have to read theirs because not only did they not follow the rules, but also it's accurate. So Zoe wrote Be gay, do crime. That was just the shirt I wore today, but I was.
Planning. I was planning on giving them shit for not following the three words, but it's. Accurate. It is accurate.
OK, so all right, to sum up the non spoilery section, we're going to let you know how much we would hydrate for lesbian Jesus. So if you've never been here before and you don't know what that's all about, this is a scoring system that was developed by the big gay energy scientists, which is a super accurate method for determining how valuable a piece of queer media is to the Queer Media Library. Why are we hydrating? Because queer media, like water, is essential for life.
So, Caitlin, how much would you hydrate for lesbian Jesus? 9 Because there could be more queers and not everyone is queers. So many people are queer than they are. No, I don't know. I I haven't finished my scale. I told you it's. I don't know if the scale will ever be done, but I think I don't know. All the water on the high seas for this. I mean, yeah OK fine, I'll give it A10I stuck with numbers. I I don't know what I was basing the night off of. I finally I finally gave in and
gave heartstopper A10. So like, it takes a lot to give me to give a 10 out. I mean, Heartstopper is a 10. It's hard to give it. Heartstopper is like perfect heart biking does. Honestly, it's great because it's adults being adults and just like it. Just the queer joy of it all, honestly is so refreshing. Because now there's I I will give it a 10 because of the non binary Rep and the conversation with Steed and Mary. That was cute. And just like Ed and Steve's
journey was really sweet. And then, like, there's a lot of other queer characters and queer journeys, and like Calypso's birthday on its own. Oh my gosh. Yeah, honestly, this show is really special and fantastic. And another thing I really appreciate is the episodes are 30 minutes long, which yes, I oh God, like, I appreciate that so much. Like just to have something quick and satisfying that's funny and upbeat. Like I want more shows like this. Let's mention it's 30 minutes long.
Theor's notes are still like it's an hour. Episode though they are definitely are not like my notes are like they don't even fill a page per episode. No, there's just a lot to talk. About there's a lot to talk about and just it's it's very satisfying. Like I enjoy it. All right. So that's the, at this point, we have transitioned, we're transitioning into our spoiler zone for the rest of this, the episodes that we're going to do about this.
So if you haven't seen our flag means that then you are now situated and interested go to HBO Max and go watch it. It'll take you a couple hours. Weird word. You're welcome. We're going to. That's your word. Go spell that in the comments without. Looking at it and use it somehow, I was titulated by thinking you. Can inner. Review you have. An inner review? No, please. Be glad. That'd be so funny.
Anyway, we're going to, we're going to cover it now, and we're going to basically cover it chronologically from like first episode to last episode. So you can kind of, like follow along that way. So let's get in to all the Super queer content. So let's start. Just a little overview, not over overview. Set the premise 'cause you kind of said it in your spoiler free review. But basically this store is the store. This story is essentially like alternate universe historical fiction.
Yes, and as I've I've done like slight research into behind the scenes emphasis on the fiction part, 'cause there's like a running joke where they didn't actually do any research for it. So that's just no fiction, Don't like historically accurate representation. I did see an interview where Tyka was like, as soon as I heard that. It's like loosely bit like no one actually knows the the true story of Blackbird. He's like, that was that's bullshit. I'll just create my own.
While Reese actually took sailing lessons, he would. That's cute. I mean is that not the two characters? It's really funny. Oh my God, it's like I'm gonna do all the things to. Be prepared for this. Oh my God that's so Steed that coded and so funny. Yeah. So and basically it is loosely based on Steve Bonnet and Blackbeard essentially during a time period where they met and sailed together and became Co captains question mark. Nobody really knows what happened.
They just know that there was this period of time where they were together And so the writers of the show were like. So they were together. They were they, they they we know historically they met. There was a period of time they sailed together, but nobody really knows what happened during that time. So like this, this is like an alternate universe of like, well, what if they were gay? And like basically we're like, what if they were gay lovers?
How does that work? And that that's basically the show. Yeah, I know. I I don't know anything about history in general, but definitely nothing about pirates. I I'm pretty sure like most of my life, I thought it was just a made-up thing. No, I mean, piracy exists now, but like basically, yeah, So it takes place during the golden
age of piracy. And that's basically at a time where like all the empires of the work, quote the, you know, the Western empires kind of like were pretty stationary in their, like empires and we're trading with each other. And so people who had like, no life prospects essentially in the countries were like fuck this and like went to the sea to just like pillage all this trading and then make their own money because the basically the the ocean was lawless.
And they're just like, we'll escape the crowns and just do our own thing. But it got to a point, the golden age, it got to a point where it was so bad that basically the governments, the imperialists were like, fuck, we gotta do something about this 'cause we're losing all of our shit and like all of our supplies and they're so they made navies and like we're trying to stop them. And that's you can see that sprinkled through the the show. So like that's where. Maggies came from.
No, I mean, navies always existed, but they used the navies to go after these pirates. Got it. Navies were used for, you know. War. Sea battles and like imperialism and colonialism all that shit. But like they turned, they hyped up these navies to like, get go after the pirates because they were losing money. Not not to make this like a history lesson, but I'm dumb. Or just don't. I'm not ineligible. Is the SEA lawless like now?
I mean, there's something called maritime law where there is like laws associated with the sea, but there are pockets like they call like international waters where it's like, well, whose jurisdiction is this? I don't know enough about it, but I'm sure there are pockets where like, well, nobody sees it. How do you know what happened like? And the tree falls in the forest, and no one's around the. Earth If two men fall in love on the ocean, did it happen? We don't know.
Like that's basically the historical gap we have with Steed and Ed. Ed And So what we do know is that eventually Steed get and I think where season three possibly was headed was like the reality of it is that Steed was like captured at some point and put on trial. So there's like the trials of Steve Bonnett and his pirate crew. And that's kind of where we're getting some of this other information from about like who was on his ship. And like he kind of told his
side of the story. And that's like a historical document me half of what happened to Seed. But the thing that is definitely integrated into the show is the fact that Seed wasn't a typical pirate. Like, he literally was a privileged white man in the in the imperialist society. Like he was living in a Caribbean island, Barbados specifically, it was colonized by England. He owned slaves.
Like, not a great role model of a person, but like, he was a typical man of his time that was extremely privileged. And he said fuck it. And like decided to be a pirate was, which was the antithesis of like, who he like. This is a society he was grown into. And so he he was actually known as like the gentleman pirate, Like actually historically. And like it said in the show, polite menace was his brand 'cause, you know.
You know, I'm good with just pretending like the show is fully accurate because I would like to think that this is what actually happened. I like mermaid included. Exactly. So then and then Edward teaches Blackbeard, the famous Blackbeard who's on here. And then we have Jiang Jiangi Sao. I think I've probably seen that wrong. I apologize. Who shows up in season 2?
Whom like I've been waiting for ATV show about this person for so long because I heard about her a long time ago and I was like, where is her television show? Because this woman was real and was like the most successful pirate of all time. She was known as the pirate queen but and she basically like took over China, like like her
husband was a pirate basically. And she like doubled his fleet, took over the Chinese like and like basically held China hostage until they got to the end of like the golden age of piracy. And she, like, was so good at negotiating. Basically. She negotiated with China and was like, pardon my 80,000 teeth, like Fleet crew. And they did. And so she got to live out her lives very her life, very
comfortably. Like she, she was the most successful pirate of all times, not just like a woman like, Oh my. So, like, I love that she shows up and like how she's portrayed because like she was the most successful, like more successful in Blackbeard and like. They need to give her a spin off. Then I want she deserves a. Show just about. I agree. Like, her life is fascinating.
Like, actually. So like, I love that she shows up. All right, So that's like the back story of like, this AU that we're in about all these really cool pirates. And it's just like a comedy and it's super fun. And so we start with episode one. And I love the way we start set the tone with this, which it starts with Frenchy serenading us, basically. And he's like singing about what it's like to like to be a pirate. And he's one of the lines is a pirate's life is short but nice.
So to me, like this song and particularly that line sums up basically the whole, the significance of the whole show. Like basically all these people are outlaws. Pirates are outlaws. And it's not an easy life like the show does do a good job of like kind of showing you like this is pretty dangerous what they're doing. It's there's no real stability here. In general, like, Steve makes things different, but like in
general, like, it's dangerous. But when they're out at sea and they're beyond the laws of the land, they can live authentically, right? So like this whole, the trade off is like, well, I can live my authentic self despite the risks. And I think that's the message of the show, not piracy in general, but like the message of the characters in the show. They'd rather be themselves, like, IE be queer in the 1700s when this happened, like out at sea, even if it's just for a short time.
I get to be me. So, like, it's like it's a short life, but it's nice. And I think that's like the thesis of the show. So this kind of reminds me of Rainbow Islands, where they I mean, they were exiled, but like they had a choice to either like live inauthentic and be with society or get exiled but live their true selves. Yeah. If you don't know what we're talking about, that's a book we covered and we talked to the
author about. That's it basically was based off this Tumblr post that was like, well, if gay people were all sent off to an island, that gay people would all die out because that's not how biology works or whatever. And so, like, all these people were just like writing all these things to be like, bisexual people exist and like all this stuff. And so Devin was like, let me write a book based on this post. And it's incredible.
But yeah, exactly. And so that's kind of what piracy is, you know, what, like what they're trying to show. Like all these people. Like kind of like left quotes, normal society to just be who they are. And that's basically what Steed's journey is, because we really pick this up with Steed after he abandons his family, essentially, and like, goes to live out his dream as a pirate. And we open with him and his crew, basically. And that's where the song is coming from.
He's already kind of like pirating, kind of like he's getting started. He's got the crew, he's got the ship. And so yeah, and, and and the same thing can be said of Ed like when they meet and kind of converge, like they're both on this journey of like abandoning their past selves or their past lives basically they didn't truly bring them joy. And so they embark on this Co captain adventure where they figure out how to be the their
authentic selves. So I like that the show immediately like, tells you what this is going to be about and like sets the tone that it's going to be like, you know, funny and serious and like, I love it. This show, it's It's really funny. It's so. Fun. And it's one of the. Best parts about it, agreed. But I want to talk about Steve's captain style and like how he runs his crew, and I think it can be summoned, summed up as a respectful preschool teacher. That's accurate.
So one of the first things we hear is his famous saying that he wants to teach his crew and that's just he wants them to be vulnerable and talk about their failings. So he's like, if we have an issue, we. Talk it through as a crew I was. Hoping you'd catch on that, and I just think it's so great that he really cares about the mental health of his crew and encourages everyone to talk about instead of bottling up like I'm assuming you normally
do as a pirate. Because I feel like pirates are not usually emotional beings. I mean, yeah, look at Blackbeard, right, They one of his intros is like, I don't know what fear is like. It's the Pirates, Like it's like hyper masculinity, right? Where it's like the only emotion you're allowed to have is anger and the only way you assert your authority is by is through fear tactics and like imposing A hierarchy. Or I'm the captain, you never question me. You just obey me or else.
And Steve flips all of that on his head and he's like. We're a. Team like, like, let's process our emotions, not bottle them up or punch each other like he's trying to like, I don't know, change all that. Ed is an authoritative parrot, while steed is gentle parroting. Literally, yeah. And but it's like that's how you know these environments where it's mostly men like men for all their, you know, saying that, you know, women are the the
subservient ones. It's like men really like hierarchies and like being subservient to like men, alpha men that they see above them. And that's what like Blackbeard's crew is. Whereas like Steve was never once ever thought of his alpha male look at all his past trauma. Like we'll talk about all that. Nobody thought anything of Steve.
And Steve doesn't fit the bucket of like alpha male hyper masculinity Like he's he's very much somebody who's in tune with his feelings and was forced to bottle them up because that's
what being a man is or whatever. So now that he's out on the crew and he doesn't have to hide any of that, he's like, no, let's like, you know, when you're having feelings, have them, let's talk about it. Let's do an art project like let's like be constructive about this and the end result is like it ends up bonding his crew together a lot better than like, you know the 'cause when you're in like the fear tactic world, we see other like pirate crews throughout the course of the two
seasons. Like, you'll notice that like a mutiny. They're like, fuck this, we don't like this. Like we'll just get a new captain. But with Steve, like the crew is a lot, you know, more bonded by the end of it. Like, yeah, they try to mutiny but like in the beginning, but they don't even actually see. But. Eventually they they get to a better place and they're like, wow, we have it real good with Steve. Like, this is actually a better situation, you know?
Yeah. And going back to the preschool teacher thing, like he gives them bedtime stories. So cute. And he does the voices. And that's like everybody's favorite part, which is so cute and like a very preschool thing. It's just it's adorable that they want it and like, it's one of their favorite things. It's just like we. Can't mutiny we wouldn't get the voice. Right. Exactly. Like, literally in the pilot.
One of the reasons they refused to mutiny is they're like, well, we need to know what happens next in Steve's bedtime story. And they're like, also you. Nobody else could do his the voices, right? So like, we can't mutiny, We'll never know what happens. Just so cute. Funny. And then so that was nap time, bedtime. And then we have crafts. So Steed has them reframe their criticism to suggestions, which prompts the flag making scene. So they were all like throwing
criticism around. He's like, OK, well, how can we reframe this? How can we make this something positive? You're you criticize that we don't have a flag, All right. Let's make one. And then has everyone make one. So. And then he says that creative products projects let his crew work out their problems in a healthier way, which is very true. And which is why there is art therapy, because it lets you, and sometimes you don't even know it's in there until you start creating something.
That's usually how our episodes go to Yeah, this is our creative arts therapy. That's right. Welcome to. Big day therapy. So one of the pirates, I forget who makes a flag with a Frenchie makes a flag with a cat on it, which he says when Roche asks what is it. I understand where this is going. OK, so this is going to be really random, but hopefully it resonates with at least a small
subset of our audience. I have been watching another show from my childhood before this, so this has come from that. I have AI. Have a little song for you. What's that? A cat. Crazy, funky junkie cat. Overslept. Probably purring trying to look like Salem Spellman. We've been there, we've done that. We see right through your funky cat. Now, if you know what that was a take on, let us know in the comments. I know Theora wouldn't know. I was.
I was hoping if Zoe was here that maybe they would know because it was a kid show. So yeah, welcome to my brain. Thank you for that, Kaitlyn. I will say, though, back to the show that I do love Frenchies. So like, basically the point is they're all making all these flags and everybody's trying to make the flag that they think is terrifying. And so it's just, it just shows you a lot about the character by
what they think is terrifying. So Frenchie picks a cat and I love the explanation and he's like, 'cause I think it's relatable. He's like, he's basically like, well, they have like knives on their hand, on their paws and like all this stuff, which I think is really funny. But he also thinks they're witches, like, but I think that's like the. Superstition against the black cat thing. Oh, exactly.
He's very superstitious, like his superstitions come out, but his like, part of what he was talking about was, I thought was relatable. It's like they're little, you know, they're little witches with knives on their feet. They do have knives on their feet. They are terrifying. And I love that this flag keeps coming up. And later on Spanish Jackie sees it. She's like, is that a? Cat and I like when. Crunchy's always like, they're scary. I like, I like trying to defend
this flag whenever. It's like, why is there a cat on this? I mean, cats can be very terrified because you don't know how they're gonna react. Can I? Can I? We're tiny jungle cats and we have a jungle cat later in the
show. So anyway, but I love the whole flag making scene with Steed's crew, 'cause I think it's it's a truly brilliant move because not only is he having them process feelings like you said, I think it's more than that by having the crew create, because the flag is like the symbol of the crew, it's like what the enemy sees. So it's a big deal to have a good flag. And so to basically let the crew make it, it's giving them a stake in their company slash ship slash their pirate group.
So like it it it would reduce the chance of them mutiny because they now have a stake in the the success of this or at least like delay the mutiny basically. So I think it was a good move like strategically since they were about to mutiny to like be like, hey, let's make this your own like you picked the scary thing. So I thought that was really brilliant. Yeah, I do Like how Steed treats people as equals rather than people too. Yeah, things.
Humanity. Which is again, atypical for pirates because like, you know, you see the way the other pirates treat them when Izzy's in charge, he's like, you're just labor. He's like, why aren't you working? You're not allowed to sit around, you're not allowed to eat unless I tell you, like Steve, teach them like people like, you know, which is not common again in this atmosphere. Another thing I love from the flag making scene is we learn about Weijon.
He admits that he used to sew dresses with his mother, which I think is adorable and like comes up later as like part of his character, which I think is cute. This this line was actually ad libbed by the actor because his mother used to make dresses for him to be used in drag. And I forget if he made it with her or if she just made it, but that's that's how he came up with that line. I love that. Also the improv I it's great. I love that. They were allowed to improv
things. In the same interview I talked about earlier, Taika was like They mentioned that Taika had said that he can figure out if someone's good at improv and he lets the people who are good do it. And if you're not good at it, you're not allowed to improv. That's funny, which I mean is fair, but how do you get better at improv if you don't try? But then you'd be there all day if they're like, terribly. We got time for that.
They ain't got time. For that, well, he's like, I'm too experienced for this, but back to the preschool thing, because like, this is the more you look into it, the more it is. Steed also made sure they had all the amenities for their special classes. They had a library class, gym Class, A music room, a ballroom. In case things get fancy, you never know. No, the ballroom was cannonballs. Oh, a cannonball. Just kidding. But I also love that they got paid no matter what.
And they're like, it is odd that they wanted the mutiny in the beginning. And like, I guess it's not the typical lifestyle that they were expecting as a pirate, but they really are getting treated well just normally. It's like they're having they get paid no matter what, like even if they don't actually get anything from pirating, which where is he getting this money? Like 'cause at some point this money has to you just muted yourself. So they mentioned it's because the vacuum's going.
They mentioned it in the beginning, but basically he sold off like a portion of his land before he got on the ship, like to pay for the ship and then for him to have money. So there's got to be like money stowed away on this ship somewhere because he and I think smartly, he was like, well, they're going to kill me and steal the money.
So he had probably had like probably one of his secret compartments that he had built into the ship, because nobody knows the schematics except him, probably houses all the money that he has. I wonder if it's not liquid money and it's just 'cause he talks about one piece of furniture that was I maybe a family heirloom or like something that wasn't really expensive. So I wonder if he has items like that as the money. Yeah. I think it's both.
I think he has money cause like at one point he's like, yeah, we stopped somewhere and I bought all this marmalade. Like, he has liquid money where he's like buying shit and like, he has to pay them in money. But I mean when their wages were like, nothing compared because of wage disparity, it was nothing compared to money he had. But yeah, like they the reason they're not happy is because he's not a fearsome captain. Like if if they've pirated before, like, they're like, what is this?
Like this man cannot be serious. He cannot seriously pay us every week. That's crazy. And he and we're not looting, like, how are we going to keep going? So like, I understand why they're skeptical because they're like, this isn't what I this isn't pirating. This is ridiculous. Going on a cruise for free. Getting paid for it. This is going on a cruise for free and getting paid for it. Literally so like as time goes on, like the smart ones are
like, this is a sweet gig. Like eventually they're like, this is a sweet gig, shut up. But you know if if you're trying to compare yourself to like, you know the goal is to, like work for Blackbeard. This is the opposite of Blackbeard. Like you're not going to get there. Right. So part of part of being a pirate is desperation because you have no other financial options. So you sell yourself to be gay, do crime, basically. The other thing is like, why Steve did it.
It's like, oh, it sounds like an adventure. Or like some people are like, I do it for glory. It's like what glory you're gonna get working for Steve. Like, you know, they're you're not gonna just get respect on the ship, but like, they're laughing, stocked in the community with pirates. And that's what I mean. Like that's not glory. Like, you know, the way men seek glory by doing these things. So. But I love seeds reasoning behind paying them no matter
what. And he says that is a lot of mental pressure to steal, to live. So he wants his crew to know they will always be able to eat. And that's a huge thing in life today, even because people don't know where their next meal's coming from, and that's why they need people looking out for them. I mean that that is literally the reason why all these men turned to piracy, because they didn't know where their next meal was coming from, 'cause they couldn't find work.
Like, that's how they became pirates. Like, 'cause there's a conversation later that happens with oh, wow, And and Steed, where he's like, Steed, this is all like fantastical and like mythical sounding and fun sounding to you. But he's like, we're not here because of that. We're here because we had no other option. Like. So he is, in a way, treating them better than they would have ever been treated. Like that's the reason they became pirates. They didn't have safety, They
didn't have financial security. And like, I think part of them resents Steed because they're like you gave up all of that to like, choose this ridiculous life that we were, We had no other option but to do so. It's like kind of a a clashing of things that's happening there that like some of them.
I I wouldn't blame them if they were resentful of Steve, 'cause he's the steed for like, choosing to abandon the thing they would have literally killed to have, which was financial security and all that kind of. Stuff that is fair. It's kind of like the grass is greener thing. Yeah, no. And that's exactly what it is. Like, totally, totally, totally. But basically, Steed is just very super liberal. Yeah, I mean they're they paint him as kind of like forward thinking away, but he isn't.
I think he's trying to, he's just trying to do things in a more civilized way. He's like, you know, when when he was on his plantation or whatever, like I'm sure there were some employees that he paid and was like, well, if I give them food and like they'll they have their next meal, they won't revolt like you know, things. Like that.
Yeah, no, that is the problem. He is trying to merge and not like fully commit to one life or the other, which is what gets him in trouble in season one, for absolute sure. Yeah. OK. I'll skip, yeah. OK so one thing so kind of touch on this a little bit what the something I do like about the show because it is a fiction by Caitlin. It is like a fiction AU basically alternate universe fiction. So it does a good job of being like funny and like a little not self aware.
But, you know, they do things where they, like, invent fan fiction and like they, you know, they. Keep I love the fan fiction comments. That was so funny. Whenever a show brings up fan fiction, I'm like, yes, you get it. You know what's happening. But like to do that in the 1700s where like there was no fan fiction like I. And so I think it's, it's relatable to a modern audience,
I guess is what I'm saying. And like, so when you the fact that you called Steve liberal, like and he's relatable to a modern audience, he's like, yeah, that's who you should treat employees. But like that's atypical for his
time period. So I think it does a good job of kind of like balancing like, I don't know like our modern brains with like the glorification of pirates, which is where Steve's mindset was with like the harsh reality of like what pirating actually was and like why these these people were actually pirates. They they had no other option.
They were desperate to like survive And so I love that and and I love that it it to us, Steve seems like the norm, but he's really not the norm for that time. And if you know, you contrast that and I've mentioned that and contrasting that with his crew who's like you know, they were desperate to be pirates. And then, you know, Blackbeard too is another interesting kind of character where he's he's set up as like, yes, that's what a pirate should be.
But then when you, like, peel back the layers of Blackbeard and you're like, this is a traumatized human, like the reality, like, it's like all you know is the legend of Blackbeard. Like they, they, you know, Izzy pulls out the OR Steve pulls out the book. Izzy does too. Where it's like, this is a picture of Blackbeard, like the fan fiction version, like the legend, the scary person. But like when you meet him, he's like he's just a person who's been through hell.
And like, he's also just trying to survive like all these other pirates. And so it's like the glorification versus like the realities of it. I think they do a good job of balancing that in the show in a really good way. I believe it's Black Pete for some reason. That sounds wrong to me. No, it's. Yeah, but that's so Black Pete. Like even when he is describing Blackbeard, it's like smoke. And glowing, right? He doesn't have a head. He's just smoke. Yeah, like, exactly.
Because they don't know him at all. It's clearly they're just buying into all the stories of Blackbeard, that that's the fan fiction, really, of him of the day, the oral fan fiction that gets, like, told about him. But then when you meet him, you're like, he's just a sad versus lonely person, you know? Yeah. OK. So a big part of the representation on this show is Jim Jim's secret identity is I had no idea where this was going. I thought that this is just what Jim was.
I mean, that's what you're supposed to think until the whole disguise scene. So when we first meet Jim, they are a guy who's mute, mute for a good. First of all, you don't want. They're probably, like so excited that they're a mute because they didn't have to have these meaningless conversations. And we then find out that they killed one of Spanish Jackie's 20 now, 19 later, 18 husbands and have gone into hiding with Olu.
Olu. It's important to note that Jim killed the guy to get revenge on the guy who killed. Yeah, I think it's the same guy. Like they made sure to kill the same person who killed her father. And her mission is to kill all seven people involved in that massacre. Yeah, the thing that starts the feud with Spanish Jackie is that Spanish Jackie's favorite husband is the one that killed Jim's dad and basically took over their entire estate. And so, yeah, that starts the
feud. And then it's more of Jim's back story is Jim was taken in by a nun when they became an orphan and was taught patience to kill and to butcher awe to get revenge. And we get a scene of little Jim trying to capture this mouse. And I forget the nun's name. I'm terrible with names, but she's like, wait for it. Just wait. Wait for it to fully show itself and then capture it. So Jim has a lot of patience. Yeah. It's quite ironic that a nun is
teaching them to kill them. Nuns are wild people, that's all I'm saying. I mean, have we seen nothing from Warrior Nun? Not really. So Spanish Jackie ends up setting a trap, knowing that Jim would come back if she bruised their ego. So egos go pretty far anywhere, any time period. Everyone has an ego, but Spanish Jackie knows Jim, So I feel like there's more I I want to see more flashbacks between their interactions. Agreed. Yeah, OK, so the trap worked. At the end of the episode, Jim's
identity is revealed. So basically Spanish Jackie spotted Jim. Jim tried to come in with their disguise on that everyone else thinks is not a disguise and Spanish Jackie like pretends to flirt with them. And it's just, it's hilarious. And you think Jim thinks that they're getting away with it and at the end they are getting taken. Sorry this, this. There's so many, like, takeovers that it blends together in my
brain on this ship. But basically the guy who works for Spanish Jackie takes off Jim's beard and takes off the prosthetic nose. And so everyone knows that Jim isn't who they say they are. And it's very it takes a while for the crew to understand Jim afterwards. Oh my God, this was the best. So to clarify, oh wow. Knew was the only person who knew who Jim was. But now the whole crew finds out that Jim is not this mute guy that they thought Jim was. Yes, OK.
And like that seems to be the hardest part for the entire crew to understand is that Jim isn't mute. That was the first thing they picked on. Not the, the. I mean, yeah the the guy thing was a big part, but the mute thing was I think the first one that you're not mute. And then and then it becomes like, is Jim gonna keep their name? Because Jim is strictly for dudes, but but apparently the name Margaret could be either. Hey, English names are weird.
Like some English names that we use now for like 1 gender was the other gender away but back in that time period. So like, yeah. Yeah, it's it's interesting. Names are interesting in general. Like we make fun of celebrities for naming kids like Apple and things, but like. As you should. But like common people name weird things all the time anyway. But anyway, Buttons. Make sure to say that he wants to be called Jim if Jim is no longer using the name. Is it Buttons?
I don't remember. I made the Swede. I was like, well, because like the Swede doesn't have a name. They just call him the Swede. So he's. Like, OK, that makes more sense. For some reason even when I was researching for interviews I get buttons and Swede confused. Just the character names and I don't know why but so forgive me. And then we get to the mermaid
conversation. The crew thinks Jim is a mermaid, much to Jim's This may, and to be fair they are trying to just make sense of it and they've probably never met a non binary person before and I don't think we ever have them saying that they are non binary. We don't get that conversation with their pronouns, I believe. So here's the deal, like there is no language for that at this particular time.
So the fact that they do things like quote, invent the term fan fiction on the fly and things like that, like they're trying to use term like they will invent like Frenchie often does that where he's like we'll call this a reading nook And like things like where they like invent modern terms like and we watch them do it in real time show there is no language for not binary. I don't even know if there's language for gay like you never hear that term either.
Like these weren't like common. No, we do. Use we do hear the. Word. Oh, do they? OK, well, like, it's the it's the Mary Steed conversation. Wait. Like queer wouldn't be a term that queer that as a word would have been used differently. It means odd, not like. Not a way to describe a sexuality like so. I might be wrong about that, by the way, I don't. I actually don't know if the word.
Was used. But either way it doesn't matter like that that like gender was not thought of like that in in English society, which is where a lot of these people are kind
of coming from. So like, I don't know that they would necessarily have a common language to describe this is what I'm getting at. And so they're what they're doing in this scene is they're they're doing, they're having the conversation about Jim's gender a little bit, like who Jim really is, but they don't have the language for it. So that's why they're like, are you a mermaid? Like, they're trying to figure it out, but they, they're using
the language that they know. They're seafaring people. They're like mermaid, mermaid. Does that make sense, Jim? Like really, what is your name now then? Like I feel like, are you? Especially back then, like mermaid is kind of gender neutral. I mean, there's there's nothing, there's just a tail made. Well, is means what the word. But yeah, but like, actually, I just mean I did. Yeah, visually, I guess.
Like you could argue. 'Cause I I know not, I don't know personally, but like, I heard that a lot of trans people have a connection with myrrh people, we'll say, because it's just there's just a tale. So there's no doesn't matter what genitalia you have. So yeah, that is true. And like, yeah, that maybe that's the metaphor that they're using for the term. They don't have. That's very, very plausible. So it's funny to us to be like,
oh, they think Jim's a mermaid. Like they're having a conversation about Jim's gender right now, really in like the language that they possess, which is super clever. And I like the way this whole conversation goes cause nobody's judging Jim. They're just trying to understand. They're like, well, what do we, who are you? Like we we've been living with basically a stranger this whole time. Like what's your name? Like, what do we call you?
The one problem I have with it too is when they're like, well, you gotta leave the ship though, 'cause, like women can't be on the ship because there's a cause. Again, Frenchie goes into the superstition, like women on board cause curses and things like that, and which was a superstition and Jim's just that, shut down. Jim's like I've been here the whole time. And then they're like we did get captured or whatever. Yeah, we did get raided not that long ago and he's like, that's
the only time. But like that's you should have been rated more or less. Be honest but I'm I guess in their world a a mirror person is possible. I mean, Buttons is a sequel. Buttons is basically a sea witch, like let's be real. I'm not kidding, I thought I got that right. Like buttons is the sequel person, right? OK, just making sure. Yeah, but I do. I do love the, I love this whole
conversation. I love this is how the writers choose to have like quote a coming out Jim coming out to the crew kind of conversation and the resolution is just keep calling me Jim. Basically like Jim is like what has really has really changed. Like I thought this was so beautiful and executed so well because the crew really at the end of the day they're struggling to put Jim in a box. Like they're they're struggling to be like oh, how do we think
of you Jim? Because before we just thought of you as Jim the mute guy. But you're not a mute guy and you might not be Jim. Like what are like who are you is like what they're trying to get at. And because Jim is this non binary character that doesn't fit like traditional labels, like I said, for the language they had at the time, like Jim doesn't even have the language. So you explain who they are. Like, I highly doubt that.
So at the end of the day, Jim is just like, I'm the same old person who's been part of this crew this whole time. And once, once the conversation is framed like that, that's when the crew relaxes and they're like, oh, we know who Jim is. Jim's a great guy. We love Jim like. So once they're like, OK, nothing has actually changed.
Now that you've told us this part of you, I love that it's just a good, like, queer experience of like, coming out and like, the people who don't understand, like, process it and go like, oh, you are the same person you were a minute ago, OK, we love Jim. Jim's a great guy and they just like, just keep thinking of me as Jim. That's it. Nothing has actually changed. So I just love the way it's resolved.
I'm also wondering if becoming Jim helped them as a person to become to really come into their own. Because I believe they were female presenting beforehand. Yeah, let me get maybe this is their way of exploring more who they are and this is like the first time that they could be themselves. And like, finally, this is a weight that everyone knows, everyone knows now like I can. And you get to see Jim become Jim now, 'cause you don't know who they are. And you see the personality
start to come out. And I love it you. You see Vico's personality start to come. Out. Yeah. You're just Vico's and no, but like, we'll we'll get to that later when we get to the episode where like Jim goes home. To. Saint Augustine and like I'll talk about it there later. But yeah, Jim like Jim made a transformation in this moment too. So I think I agree with you. I think Jim is owning a bit like that's the whole point of the show, like I said.
So I think Jim is starting to own who they are basically. Yeah. And not and and not that they didn't, but it's like Jim is not hiding it. So then we, the audience get to see it. All right, cool. So that was like basically episode 2, Episode 3. This is when we go to the Republic of Pirates, which the Republic of Pirates is actually
like this. What we see in the show is based on a real place that was in the Bahamas during the golden age of piracy, which is when the show was basically taking place. And it was basically like a hub and like a safe space for pirates. And it's basically ruled by this like informal pirate code that all the pirates had going on. So even though they're like Wallace, like pirates have their own code amongst each other for like respect and like, I feel
like. It's a typical thing to have like any type of people who come together to have like this not government but these like set of rules and how you behave and. It's called the social contract. Anytime you have a society quote, there are a set of rules established for like behavior and like interactions and things. That's called the the societal code. So yeah, this is the pirates are making their own version of that because they don't, they don't have a land that they're tied
to, but they they're on the sea. They have this hub. We're going to behave this way when we're here. This is our code. I'm glad you know all this. I learned so much when I talk to you. I just. Learned things as I go along. All right, so it's ruled by the the informal pirate code, but in the show, it's run by Spanish Jackie and her husband's. And I will say casting Leslie Jones as Spanish Jackie is who's not Spanish, which I love, is my favorite conversation.
Like why do you call me? Are you Spanish? No. Why do they call you that? I don't know. She's Spanish Jackie. She's so good in this role. It's so funny. I also love that she's framed as this big feared boss bitch and she simultaneously has 20 now 19 later 18 husbands. And look, no one bats an eye at that. They're like, Yep, Jackie and her. Her. Husbands. Oh wow. I was like just fine. I just nobody cares. Cause again like it's lawless,
like nobody cares. I'm like that what Jackie wants to do, that's what Jackie gets to do that it's so funny. Oh, but she has a harem of men, which is fantastic. Other thing I love about Spanish Jackie, that 'cause you think about the writers would write most of these things in somebody decided to write in the nose jar as a thing that Jackie did. It's an intimidation tactic. You fuck around and find out and
Jackie takes your nose, right? And I love that not only it exists, but it's a it's a plot point also. And it's not fake. I thought maybe it was just like to scare people. No, we see it happen later. We. We see it and it's a plot point. So, like, who does to the writers that were just like, this is funny, but also, let's make it important. I love that. OK, so that's the Republican pirate. So when Steed and his crew decided, So I think they end up going there.
I don't know why they end up going there, but anyway, they're there. Oh 'cause they have. They do get oranges because the sweet. No, that's Saint Augustine. Oh, damn, They're there because they have British hostages. Oh, yeah, They at this point men for sale. Yeah. And so they're trying to sell them. Steve takes them to the Republic of Pirates. He's like, maybe he's a pirates a lot, though.
OK. And before the when Steve's proposing this on the ship, well, I was like, trying to, like, convince him not to do it. And he's like, no, you don't want to go there. Steve, it's so touristy now, like to try to dissuade him. He's like, it's not authentic. You're trying to be an authentic pirate, right? So they go anyway. And then when Steve gets there with the hostage, he starts acting like a tourist. Like they find this like skeleton that's got a sign on it
says behave yourselves. And like, he's in front of it and he's like, Lucia sketch us like, like, of course, like, take our photo. That's what he's saying. So I love that Wow. Can like read Steve. And he's like, no, don't go there. It's touristy. And that's like literally what Steve does. Steve does. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's. I love Steve. Steve, he's such a child
sometimes. But the reason he really wanted to go here not just to like sell the hostages, but also like this is where Steed is kind of using his this as like basically his his introduction to pirate society, launching his career as the gentleman pirate as as as if you will by going to Spanish Jackie's with a like a British officer, like it's a big deal that he has this guy and so he's like quote coming out to the pirate community basically is what he's doing.
And as you can imagine, it doesn't go well because the nose jar gets destroyed and then we start this feud with Spanish Jackie. Like, immediately. Yeah, Spanish Jackie is not too happy with the the crew, this entire suit. You know what they Let's be real. They they will always have beef. Oh. Always. Always. This was a disaster.
But what I find very interesting about this whole thing, when Steed goes in there and breaks the nose jar, the Spanish Jackie wants to kill him because the no jar is really important, the Spanish Jackie. And so the thing that stops her because she's basically got like Steed at like knife point and the thing that stops him, stops her is Blackbeard AKA Ed. So he ends up saving Steed before they even meet because while this is happening, I think somebody let's it drop that.
Like, this is the guy Blackbeard's interested in. Like, because Izzy has been going around trying to find because Blackbeard was like, Gentlemen pirate. This is intriguing. Go find him. And so Izzy was in here looking for him and they're like, oh, this is the guy, This is the guy that Blackbeard is looking for. And that's what stops Jackie. So my read on this is because Blackbeard, AKA Ed, claimed Steed as like a person of
interest. Basically, the other pirates are like, we better not touch this guy 'cause Blackbeard wants him. And so it's like, out of respect for Blackbeard, but really like Ed ends up saving Steed before they even meet, which is very cute and I love it. Well, yeah, 'cause they don't want to be on Ed shit list either. No, absolutely. Cause of the Legend of Blackbeard, right? They're like he'll make his own nose jar. We don't want to be involved
with that. So Indy at this point is like trailing Steed because Ed's interested in him basically, and he goes back, 'cause like Izzy went there to be like Blackbeard wants to talk to you and Indy wants nothing to do with this fuckery. So he's just like whatever Steed and he goes back to Blackbeard and he's like and falsely basically reports that Steed outright rejected Blackbeard, 'cause when they meet Steed's like she could suck eggs in hell much but a lime. That feel very felt, very
improv. But I don't know it was. Great, you can. Usually we'll get there later. But like you can tell when Tyga and Reese improv together. Oh, for sure. Together. Because it's like when their when their stories become mumbled, it's like that's definitely fully improv, yeah. But I mean, Tyga wasn't in the scene, it was just Izzy and kind of scene. And but instead of like so Izzy was like, oh if he says that Blackbeard's going to go into a
rage and want to kill this guy. But it is the opposite. It only like intrigues him more 'cause he's like who says that to Blackbeard? Like I need to meet this guy this guy's like doesn't act like all the other pirates cause like see Spanish Jackie's behavior at the minute Blackbeard comes out. Jackie's like whatever he wants, whatever. Like he's the pirate king. But Steen's out here not knowing the rules and the etiquette, and he's just like, fuck that guy,
like this and that. And so Blackbeard's like, this is exciting and interesting. So I do. I love that because Steve doesn't know the pirate code enough to pay like to follow it. So he's like breaking all these rules. He has no idea he's breaking and and it's. Like Steve's playing hard to get. Yeah, exactly. And Blackbeard's like Falling Hook Line and Zicker for that. I love it. And so up to kind of this point in the show, we haven't really like met Blackbeard.
We've seen like silhouettes and like the back of his head and things like that. It's like implied that it's Blackbeard but. Blackbeard was too busy directing episode one. Yeah, but it's the it's again because we're supposed to think of him as the legend. We don't see him. So we're just like, oh, we feel his presence and like the way he talks to people and just we're supposed to view him as the legend. And then finally in this episode we see, actually see
Blackbeard's face. And one of those that they found really interesting when I first started watching the show is that when we meet Blackbeard, his beard isn't black anymore. So which is like, funny. But at the same time, to me, I was like, oh, this is a visual indicator that, like, Ed no longer feels connected to Blackbeard. Because Blackbeard's a persona, right? It's a he's a blackbeard's a legend. Like, Blackbeard's not really a person.
Ed is the person underneath that, like, visage, basically. And so to me, this shows that I think it's important that when we meet him, he actually doesn't have a Blackbeard. To me, I think that shows that he's on the cusp of like a metamorphosis, like Blackbeard is like the Caterpillar and then like the butterfly is like Ed. So we're in the middle of a transformation with this character.
So I thought that was a really good detail that they they did in the show that they didn't have to do. Did dyeing hair exist back then? Do you know? I mean, it did, but usually for, like, wealthy women who can pay to keep the dyes intact and buy the expensive ingredients and like a life on sea, I don't think the dyes of the day we're gonna, like, stay in your hair. That's fair.
I was just wondering if it was like even a possibility to like if he even wanted to keep the persona intact with Blackbeard. I'm sure there was a there was a way that would have been really expensive, and he probably could have done it if he wanted to. He's Blackbeard, you know. You know all he had to do is intimidate someone to help him. Exactly. And I just want to close out this episode with somebody I love whose Buttons like just everything about Buttons.
I just love this character because I feel like Buttons is the most like authentic person that we meet in the show. Like from start to finish, like Buttons is just Buttons. Like, there's no mystery there. It's like. You, you. There's no growth, There's no decline. There's just buttons. Buttons is just buttons. Well, no, there is growth because we we will talk about it in season 2, but. Yeah, though there's definitely like a character arc and stuff
like that. But like, there's no like mask. There's no, like mystery. Like Buttons is just very much himself, like the whole time. And one of my favorite lines from Buttons is when he's like, I forgot what it was. I I forgot it was Steed or Ed. But basically they had the crew together and they're like, be honest about like your feelings or whatever. And Buttons is like, I yearn to Make Love to the sea and and there's like that's too much,
but that's too honest. One of my favorite buttons line is. Those dots look Spanish. Oh my God. One who sees the ship. What? Makes a dot look Spanish. I think that's supposed to imply that like he has like bird vision or like echo site beyond humans and so he can see that the ships look Spanish. Wasn't he wrong though?
No, he was right. And the thing and 'cause if you remember in the scene basically like one of the captains was looking through the telescope and buttons wasn't and he's just looking and he's like that looks, those look Spanish, those there's oh, I see some dots and I'm like, they look Spanish. They were Spanish ships. So. And I love his button knows all. Button knows all. And he also has some telepathy link to the seagulls, particularly Carl and Carl's wife Olivia.
Olivia. He shows up later. Oh my God, I love RIP Carl. I love Carl. That was. That whole seat, Oh my gosh, Buttons was destroyed. Valid. Very valid. But like, I know we're getting ahead of ourselves, but just like that being the, that was the breaking point for Steve in that episode. And it was it was awesome because Steve's like, this is my crew. You do not mess. With him? No, no. Yeah, well, I have many things to say about that scene, but
just like, I love buttons. The the bird guy. Obviously we have so much to talk about this entire show. That's why it's so good. But. That was the first three episodes of season one of our Flag Means Death. Like I We obviously missed things. If you had favorite moments, things you noticed, likes, dislikes, please leave it. Leave it in the comments. Find us on social media. Like, there's so much to say about the show.
It's incredible. And so we're doing our best to cover our main highlights and things we noticed. But like, please share your thoughts. I love learning new things. What was improv? What wasn't? Like, tell us all the things we would love to hear from you. Yes, but we will continue our discussion. We'll pick it up with Episode I Think 4. I have a lot to say about. For I lose so much to say. Caitlyn was super good episode for it so. Just like it's visually stunning. I'm just saying.
Just in general, we'll leave it here. That cinematography in this show is so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so good. And one thing I really love, which I think this is a set design thing, is the way they really commit to the fact that like they are on ships. So anytime you see chandeliers, they're always swinging and stuff. Oh, I never. Noticed. That little things like that, like, yeah, they very much commit to the very detail oriented. Super detail oriented, yeah.
And I very much appreciate that. It just, it really sucks you into the show and just makes it feel very like real. And like, there's not a lot of, like when I watch some shows, it's like you have to suspend disbelief. This show, like, I don't. I ever get that feeling from it. Like, yeah, there's like, it's like it's a historical AU. It's loosely based on stuff. There's that. But, like, the show feels very like. Like the world feels complete, if that makes sense.
And so, like, I'm never like, suspending disbelief in the show. It's very, very well done. Cool. All right, so next time we will get into Episode 4 and so much, much more, and Zoe's gonna join us. So be excited for that. And until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus and. Gate up all over the ship. Bye. And with that, we've been big gay energy. Thank you for listening. We'd really appreciate it if you downloaded this episode and left us a review.
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