Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy. I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora. Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media. Representation matters, and we're. Here to talk about it. Cheers queers, we have a super special episode today. If you didn't know, this year marks the 10 year anniversary of the loved web series Carmilla. Today we are talking to the wonderful Natasha Nego Vandalist who plays Carmilla. Welcome to the podcast, Natasha. Ah, thank you for having me.
Oh no, thank you. Our audience loves, loves Carmilla. It's a, it's a show that has stood the test of time, it seems. So thank you for being a part of that. We really appreciate it. And so our first question for you is, it's been 10 years. So, looking back 10 years, what do you remember most about the early days of filming Carmilla? Oh yeah, it has been 10 years, which is so bonkers.
And it truly still baffles me that folks are still fans of the show, that there are new fans of the show, that people are still discovering the little web series that could, that we like to lovingly call it the early days. My goodness. I mean, we shot that series in four days. So when I look back, it feels like a fever dream because it was a very, yeah, very speedy.
We always said it was like the the pacing of film, but it was like the rigor of theatre because of course the show was from the character Laura's perspective and because it was a locked camera that allowed for fast filming because he didn't have to wait for camera resets. But then in many ways, it felt like performing a stage play but without the rehearsal time of a stage play. So it was kind of like a soap
opera. I just remember cramming late nights trying to learn my lines, especially when there were script changes or line changes. But gosh, I just remember having a lot of fun. That is a lot in four days, yes. And there's a lot in four days. Yeah, I think we maybe got, if my memory serves me correctly, we maybe got five days for Season 3. So it was like, oh, luxurious.
Oh wow. 24 hours. Yeah. And then we we filmed the movie, The subsequent movie in 14 days, which is still pretty fast, but I think pretty common for like indie films. So when once we got to the movie, it felt really exciting to be able to expand the universe and to finally have like different camera angles and coverage and close-ups. But every time it was definitely like a super whirlwind fever dream experience. So what? Sorry, I skipped ahead real
quick. Did you have any idea back then how much of an impact the series would have? I didn't expect it to be as much of A phenom as it became. However, at the risk of sounding a little bit woo woo, you know, I think both my Co star Elise and I knew we were on to something special. We did have a feeling that it was going to be, it wasn't just going to be this little web series that no one watched. Like we shot the first season in
two blocks. So we did it in two days and then we had a bit of a break and then we did it in two days. And when the first few episodes aired, we were still filming it and we already started to see fan art and even just from reading the script and and understanding the story in general, we were like, this feels this feels very different and very special. And it was really unique for the
time. So I think I did have this little like premonition moment that like, oh, this, this is something I have to do. Like even from the first time I read the breakdown for the character, I immediately had emailed my agent at the time and I was, I was like, I, I have to audition for this show. I have to. So it's like I had some kind of little Spidey sense or inclination that it was going to be important, but I didn't understand the scope of things. I didn't realize it was going to
be as huge as it was. And so that definitely surpassed my wildest dreams. I mean, how could you think that would be? This. Big and like I've definitely had people over the years be like, Oh my gosh, you have to watch this. I did watch it, but like the one friend that I met online she's like we have to watch this. All right now on zoom. Let's go. I love that people are still watching it together and I love that it has this nostalgic kind of cult following feeling to it now.
I love that it's kind of become this familiar comfort show for people. So it's it's really meaningful to me that it continues to live on. And I think the the Co creator and producer Steph Wokneen was really smart and really tapped into, you know, at the time Tumblr was big. Oh my gosh, this is making me feel very old now is like, wow, 10 years ago.
Social media has really changed. But Tumblr was really big at the time, and she was really tapped into different fandoms because I guess when she she must have been like 25 when she created it. I mean, she's just such a genius
and so brilliant. But I think because it was really, you know, the type of show that she would have watched or because so many of us were actually queer people, It's like that's what gave it that special spark because it was something that we all felt connected to in a meaningful way versus just like getting hired to act on something, not feeling connected to the material, but, you know, taking the job or, or yeah, folks who, you know, I think a, a lot of times what happens now
is folks go, oh, queer audiences are very loyal. And so, you know, you'll see sometimes out there in media, you know, queer baiting and things like that unfortunately happens. But for us, it was like, yeah, we were just a bunch of like scrappy queer kids and and some of us who didn't even, I mean, I was, I was out at the time, but not everyone was. So it felt like a sort of a a coming of age show for not only the audience, but for for a lot of us. That's beautiful. I love that. Fiora.
We can't hear you. Sorry, OK, to get mysterious with my microphone. All right.
I was gonna say I'm glad you said that because, like, at the core, like, this is a story that's essentially like a modern retelling of a, of a old kind of book, like a novella, I forget what century it's set in. So the fact that you had actual, like, queer people putting it together through like a very grounded lens, like, it doesn't does make it feel more real for like the time period the web series was set in.
And like, I think that helped it really resonate with a lot of people at the time, like when it was airing. And now it's just like, like you said, nostalgic to be like, Yep, that's that was my life back then. Yeah, Yeah, it was, it was very smart. The the original novella was written 25 years before Dracula, something like that. So Carmilla was very much and it
was the Gothic era. So Carmilla was very much the kind of original vampire in a way, but the original novella was such a cautionary tale of, you know, female sexuality and and then the end, Carmilla gets beheaded. And so I loved that it sort of took this really interesting concept, but turned it on its head and gave it this very, you know, modern lens for the time. Yeah, agreed.
So what was it like to be part of such an iconic series that paved the way for queer representation in web series and just like Beyond? Because it was a very healthy like representation and not queerbaiting like you mentioned
earlier. Yeah, it was something I spoke on a lot during the Carmilla era or the Carmilla years, because as as someone who grew up without much representation and who grew up with a lot of questions and confusion, it really it was really cool to sort of have that torch passed on to me. You know, when I was in high school, the only option I really had was the original L word, which, you know, obviously is problematic in many ways, but also did provide and need and and, you know, had great
moments. But I just remember being in high school and I had this like little tiny TV in my room and there was one night I couldn't sleep and it was like flip flipping through channels and then all of a sudden it was like women kissing. What what is this on screen? And I was just like, oh, what? So, and then I remember, you know, going through that, that phase of like Googling which of the actors was actually queer and and whatnot.
So I think I get it because I, I, I just felt such a kinship to Carmilla fans because I was like, yeah, I get it. That was that was me. Again, the realism of it all. Yeah. Yeah, the representation definitely if there is more things that I saw growing up, I feel like it would have been so much more helpful. But hopefully things are getting better for future generations. Unless we go backward but. Yeah, I think, I think it is. But certainly there is still much room for improvement these
days. And it's funny because positive queer representation on screen was not something I necessarily thought about prior to Carmilla. It was sort of like, oh, there's this one show and I really like it, but it wasn't something I was advocating for per SE. And I think when I saw first hand the impact of Carmilla and how important it was, and I heard so many stories from fans I got to meet at different events and whatnot, I went, oh, here's an opportunity for me to
actually step up and, and be a sort of, you know, leader, I guess, for lack of a better word. But to be a leader in this space because there was so much more of a hole and a need than I had ever realized. So I feel really blessed to have gotten to be a part of that. And it's nice to know that folks still resonate with the show and that it's still being discovered by people. I know it feels a little bit dated now.
It's so funny, like how quickly trends change and whatnot and you go, wow, a lot of changes in a decade. So I kind of like feel like an old, washed up actor sometimes. But yeah, it's it's one of those things where I go, you know, how lucky was I to get to be a part of something that I had such a deep connection with? Not everyone gets to do that. And I always say, like, heck, if I never book another acting role again, at least I can look back at on that and go, hey, that was
that was really cool. That was really important. And it was such an important part of my journey kind of growing up as well. Because although I was 24 when we first shot it, that's still super young. Your squishy little frontal lobe isn't even fully developed yet. And, you know, I was still going through tons of growing pains. So I do feel like, yeah, I got to do a lot of exploring and growing up, and it really opened a lot of doors in the world for me. And I feel very lucky.
I think it's super special that you are, you understand, like the impact that the character, the part the show has played and have been advocating and just really sharing that impact with the world because not everybody does that. So it's really special when people understand the impact that they're making. And it's also crazy because 10 years it it, you hear it and you're like, oh, that's so long ago. But then you're like, you hear the year and you're like, oh, wasn't that yesterday?
I know. It's it's a weird thing. I do feel like the pandemic had something to do with that. And then also just like the boom of TikTok as well, and it's just like things escalated so quickly and then pandemic years is like also I feel like each one felt like a decade in itself, so. That it feel, each one felt like a decade, but then also together it all felt like less than a year in a way. Like looking back when you're in it, it was definitely forever.
Yeah, it yeah, there's a time warp there. Are there any moments from filming Carmilla that stand out to you the most, either on screen or off screen? I think shooting the finale of Season 3 was very emotional because we didn't know that we would get to do a movie, so we really thought the show was over. So as much as I would like to pretend I'm this amazing actor, I feel like a lot of the crying was truly us being like, Oh my
God, the show's over. So when Carmilla thinks that Laura's dead, for a moment it's just like maybe a little bit of me thinking that the show was dead or the character was dead, too. So yeah, that was a really special moment. And then later finding out that we'd get to continue on as the characters was very special, and I'm so glad we got to do that. How long after did you find out? Oh, I'm resurrected. Oh my goodness, I actually can't recall now. Must have been like a few months
later. OK. So yeah. Too long of a mourning period then. Yeah, OK. So as you mentioned, like, yeah, that the, there's still a fandom, the cream puff fandom that is still still going strong for the for the web series. Have you seen the fandom evolve or how have you seen them evolve over the past decade? And like, what is having that community still like, mean to you? It's funny.
I mean, it's been nice to see, you know, folks who I've been able to interact with for almost a decade who discovered the show very early on and some who have come out or have really started living authentically or some who have transitioned in that period of time. And many who've grown up, you know, some who really the fandom was all ages, but but many who were a little bit younger than me. And now, you know, maybe they're at the age I was when Carmela
ended. And it's just been really cool to watch, watch them grow up. And two, have felt this sense of community. But then I'm also, yeah, very excited and interested when I find out that folks even who are in high school now are are still discovering Carmilla through folks posting about it on TikTok. And it's just so interesting and wild to me. And I feel like I'm entering my like old cool anti era maybe. I don't know. I feel this like, yeah, this
like kind of parental vibe. That's so sweet. I love that, yeah. If you could go back in time and give your younger self some advice before starting Carmelo, what would you tell yourself? I would tell myself to get a financial advisor, maybe get an entertainment lawyer, maybe get APR manager. I don't know. Yeah, I, I think I was propelled into a, a type of fame without the guidance of that, you know, a quote, UN quote celebrity would typically have or the support.
And so it sounds super mundane, but honestly, just like logistic things are things I would go back and tell my younger self to, to take care of 'cause, you know, it got very intense. I think in the first few months of the show being out, I went from like 500 followers to 30,000, which felt like a very huge leap in a very short amount of time. And, you know, not being prepared for that sort of public scrutiny was was challenging at times. You know, I learned as I went along.
But I even think just like, yeah, there are certain things that you're not prepared for and I would certainly go back. I think I'd also say like, you know, I was really lucky in that I met so many of my closest friends through the show. Not everyone gets to do that. Not everyone's pals with their Co workers. You know, Annie Briggs who was on the show and I wrote a series called Clairvoyant. It was Claire with an E that we put out in 2018 after Carmilla
had ended. And I mean, how awesome was it that I got to meet a dear friend and a creative collaborator through Carmilla? But that being said too, I think I worried so much about, you know, wanting people to, to like me or just, you know, learning I think more from the like production side of thing that like, you know, sometimes I, I think any advice I give to like younger actors too is just like.
There, it's a very vulnerable industry, it's a very personal industry, but producers are not necessarily your friends. And yes, you have to obviously have a a level of networking and a level of niceties and things like that. But I think, yeah, I think looking back, I would have like maybe taking a step back from it a little bit, but I also think it's not really worth going back too much and being like, ah, what a shoulda coulda. Because you can't change the
past. You just gotta take every moment in the good and the bad as a lesson and keep on trucking and move forward. But I'm always happy to share experiences with younger actors or people who are curious about the industry. But I think it was a very unique experience in itself anyway, just because it was web series and it wasn't a traditional format. So yeah, we just didn't have the same sort of budget or pay scale or, or resources as film and television actors would normally
have. So the dichotomy between like, still working, waitressing jobs and then getting recognized at work or having really, really intense fans who would maybe sometimes cross boundaries, but not feeling like I had the income or the power or clout to be able to, like, assert boundaries, you know, those sorts of things. It's been really interesting to see a lot of celebrities now start to talk about that, like Chapel Roan and stuff.
And I think that's really cool. But also she's in a financial position where she can afford to, you know, burn bridges as well. So I think when we were like, you know, we got paid like 600 bucks for the first series or the first season rather. And so, yeah, when you're still like hustling and waitressing and trying to do all these things, it's like you, you just sort of, I think there were times that it did feel very isolating as much as there was a
sense of community. So yeah, that's a really long winded answer. But I guess just get APR manager, get a, get a, get a get some advisors. Get a support system who knows what they're doing. Yes, yes, invest in that. That's a. Lot to handle basically getting dressed in the spotlight overnight, basically, like over a few months. And to just, yeah, that's that's an insane follower jump. I can't even imagine what that, especially with social media growing so much over the past 10 years too.
And like, I think that time was really when it was getting crazy. It was very experimental and you know, like influencers or sponsorships or things like that, like it wasn't as commonplace. There wasn't as many, there weren't as many opportunities, I think for people who were quote UN quote, Internet celebrities know still very much the Wild West in a way. I mean, the Internet always sort of is.
But I think there was no, we were like part of the building of the framework of what it meant to be a, you know, web series personality or, you know, yeah. So yeah, it was a weird, very unique experience for sure it. Was like, right place at right time, too, because like, like you said, like the Internet was just kind of like blossoming until, like, whatever it is now. And same with social media. So like, yeah, right place, right time for a web series in
particular. Yeah. But now here we are 10 years later. So going back to your character Carmilla, 10 years, 10 years into the future, what would she even be doing now? Is she on Tiktok? Like what is she doing 10 years later? She is definitely not on TikTok. I think Carmela, if she ever even had social media, has definitely gotten rid of all of it. And Elise. Elise and I got together over zoomed to do a little like reunion interview of each other
recently. It's up on my Instagram now, but we decided that maybe Laura definitely has a TikTok. She's doing some crafts, she's doing some DIY stuff. She's like kind of a trad wife, but not because she is married to a vampire, a lesbian vampire. But yeah, she definitely has one. Sometimes Carm maybe pops in for a moment. But yeah, I think they run like a eccentric Airbnb or something in a small town. We're also maybe Laura works for the local paper or something.
I love that. That's amazing. She was definitely making sourdough at the beginning of the yeah. 100% so. OK, so 10 years in the media landscape is very different from now. So how do you think Carmilla would be different if it were made today, given how much everything has changed in terms of representation too? That's such a good question. How would Carmilla like Carmilla? The series or the character? The series.
I guess I don't know if narrative web series are still really like a big thing on YouTube, so I feel like if it was made today I would probably be streaming on some other
service. Maybe it'd be a little bit longer, definitely like it would be all over TikTok and the character is probably, we probably would have had a lot of like like what what's the term transmedia where it's like we would have had probably like Tik Toks for the characters or something where we would have like been doing videos in character. They definitely wouldn't have been wearing skinny jeans either. Not that time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, but I I kind of want to see these tick tocks now. I know. That'd be hilarious. All right, So like if there if there was some kind of like reunion episode that happened at some point, is there anything you'd wanted to focus on or include like this far out from where I guess the movie ended? That's kind of like the end point. Yeah, well, it's so hard for me to imagine because Carmilla then became a vampire again at the
like. She was turned into a human at the end of season 3, and then she revamped, revamped during the movie, and then she's a vampire again, which means that she would not be aging. But this actor has aged an alarming amount in the past five years, let alone 10, so it's very hard for me to imagine her as a vampire. So perhaps she, I don't know, they're, they would have some sort of explanation for why I look older. Maybe she's running some kind of vampire coven.
I don't know. I have no idea. That's such a good question and I truly cannot, cannot even imagine. I have no idea. Yeah. Reunion episode. I mean, like I said, I think that they, I think Laura and Carm are running some kind of Airbnb. Carm has like an apothecary or like a magical little gift shop at like in there, in there. Not an Airbnb, sorry. More be more like a quaint bed and breakfast. Yeah. Yeah, like an inn. Yeah. You know what? Have you ever seen the show Ghosts on CBS?
Picturing something kind of like that I like. I have not watched the American version version because I'm a really big fan of the UK version. The. Original. That's fair, but they're very similar. I've heard, I've heard it's wonderful. I am meaning to watch actually. I have some friends on that. But yeah, but totally, yeah, that kind of vibe for sure. Because it would make sense to you if there were like, travelers in the night who needed a place to stay.
Because karma's nocturnal, so she would just be chilling at the front desk reading. Intimidating people. Reading, yeah. I don't know Voltaire or something. I love it. I do love that. Oh, sorry, no, I was just like. No, no, you go. I can picture her with, like, her biker boots up on the front. Yeah, just. Like, slowly lowering the book. Like, what do you want? Yeah. The door opens.
Damn it. Yeah. OK so over the years Carmilla has been analyzed in so many ways from fan theories to even academic fatigues, which is awesome. Is there any interpretation of your character or the series that really stood out to you? Tell me about these interpretations, because I don't
know what they are. What I mean, I've heard that, yes, it's been interpreted in many ways or different people have studied it. But I've only heard of that through the advertising side of things or from like film production. Because I think a lot of film schools now study the way in which it was filmed or the fact that it was originally sponsored by a tampon company. So I know that a lot of marketing programs study it now. I'd, I'd what? Tell me what?
Do you know any specifics theor? I mean we can definitely. I'll send you some stuff. I love this. Yes, I enlighten me. I'm like different interpretations of Carmilla. I mean, it was like a pivotal time too. So like, yeah, I would see a lot of like schools using it as education type things, talking about how it was filmed. That's awesome. No, this is. I didn't. I mean, I knew from that end, but not so much the storyline. I know that a lot of people study like the original novella,
but yeah. I've seen some like comparisons because again, it's a retelling. So it's a, you know, how did they inter? Cuz it by definition it is a like a reinterpretation of Carmela, like the actual novella to the screenplay. So I don't remember specifics, but yeah, there's been like analysis of like that kind of transformation too, which I find really interesting. You tell me now the table's of turn and I'm interviewing you. I'm like, what's one of your favorite analysis of Carmela?
I haven't gotten 2 since I didn't watch it as it was coming out too. So I'm very new to this world. I'm, I'm a late discoverer, but is there anything like while it was airing that fans were like, oh, maybe this will happen? My gosh, I feel 100 years old because trying to. It's a long time ago. Go back and remember, I don't know, like I definitely interacted with my fandom, but I also felt like it was important to leave things like fan theories and fan fiction like to the fans as well.
So. I mean, that's fair 'cause that stuff can get crazy. Yeah, but also like super fun. I just, I don't remember, I think some people had wondered if the baby that Carmen Laura are holding in the title sequence, the end sequence of the movie, if that was their baby. There was some like fan theories around that it was just one of the producers babies and for some reason they put a photo of us holding the baby in it. But I think they took it. Themselves then.
I think both Elise and I were like, no, they don't have it. It has been confirmed. Yeah, there were definitely some fan theories that they had a baby. I was like, no, no they did not. No spooky in an apothecary. Yeah. OK, so over the years, you've used your platform to lift up other LGBTQ creators. Who are some of the creators or projects you're most excited about right now and why? Oh yeah, most recently I got asked to do a little sketch video with at Poppy Lore.
Poppy Lore for their Pain in the Neck series. They had asked me if I was willing to sort of signal boost their Kickstarter for that. They yeah, it's, it's very Carmilla esque in the sense that it is like a a vampire human roommate situation. They fall in love. I think there's a will they won't they situation. But it is certainly, yes, much more modern. And I thought the idea was so funny.
And I thought, well, why not help pass the torch if I can use my platform to help the sort of next generation of sapphic creators create a web series, Then of course. And they pitched me this idea and it was so, so funny. And it was really fun to get to play a kind of goofy, sort of like Lady Dracula type character 'cause I do a lot of a lot more comedy these days. And so, yeah, I'm really happy they reached their goal. It, it looks really funny.
I'm excited to see it, yeah. That's a lot of fun. Pick that out, yeah. So your. Advocacy extends beyond the screen and into panels and public speaking. How has engaging directly with audiences about queer issues and mental health shaped your perspective as a creator? It's definitely helped me learn to listen to see things from the other perspectives.
I find it very interesting to listen to lived experiences that are different from my own because that's The thing is like we say to us LGBTQ plus community, but we're not always necessarily a community. You know, there is a lot of infighting within this community. And it it is, we're not a monolith. Of course. It's, you know, queer people are so vast and so diverse in so many ways.
So I think for me as a creator, I think learning to still do what feels right to me and authentic to me, you know, I can't allow you can't please everyone. There will always be people who have something negative to say about what you're doing. But I think if there is ever a situation where I do unintentionally harm someone or I do ever, you know, slip up, 'cause obviously we're not born perfect with all of the knowledge on how to be the most
inclusive, pious person ever. Any time there is, you know, something like that that happens. I'm, I'm very interested in, yeah, learning how to just be accountable and that fine balance, I think between wanting to include as many people as possible, but also understanding that I'm not always going to get it right or I'm not always going to, yeah, be able to appease everyone.
So to just really trust myself, trust that off screens and off social media, that I am living with integrity, that the people who really do know me and get to work with me know that I work with integrity. And trusting that and trusting myself and just staying grounded in that I think has been one of the biggest lessons. I don't know if that answers your question. I'm that is. Such a healthy mindset. I am a rambling, yeah. Ramble away, because that's when the beauty is said.
It's easier said than. Done. I always feel like I'm rambling. No, it's. These have been great questions. Yeah, it's easier said than done. Like, obviously I still have a sick need to please people. I feel like a lot of actors, I mean, creatives, hey, we go into this because we desperately need validation. But I think learning how to, yeah, create, create and and do things that fill my soul.
But also, still, yeah, I always want to take into account how things I'm doing make other people feel without driving myself absolutely insane. Because it's also very easy to like, self flagellate and like, yeah, worry so much that you end up stalling or I get stuck. You know, sometimes that happens to me. Like I would get so worried about, you know, any time I'd slip up or hurt someone or whatever, it'd just be like, Oh my God, I'm terrible.
I should never create again. I shouldn't exist. And it's like, OK, no, that's a very extreme reaction to things. I think it's just finding the balance to it. Is very relatable. Yeah, learning how to, yeah, just trust myself. And yeah, but also still being open and and yeah, reading and listening to feedback without completely altering who you are as well either, you know? Which is hard when social media exists.
Yeah, It's always easy to want to, you know, reply to anything that could be perceived as a negative comment. But I think I've learned over the years how to navigate, OK, what is an opportunity for, like, an actual healthy dialogue or interesting discourse or like, what kind of you can kind of tell when someone, like, leaves a nasty comment on your page, if they're just, like, trolling you or if they actually, you know, are someone who might be open to dialogue.
Yeah, just learning where to allocate your energy, I think is super important. And I'd say, yeah, most of the time I've just learned to just not respond. That's, that's fair. Allocating your energy and finding balance. I think those are really good key points. Cause yeah, you could just head into burnout in one way or the other if you're like. People pleasing or As a millennial, I understand that. Yeah, part of the generation. Big time.
So you've mentioned previously that the importance of having an inclusive workspace, especially in your line of work. What steps do you think the entertainment industry needs to take to become more inclusive? Because it's getting better, but there's more room for improvement. I do think inclusivity is such a broad term because it's sort of like, who are we being inclusive to? So we're talking about being inclusive towards queer people.
OK, well, you could be queer but then have other barriers like being disabled or being a person of color, you know. So it's sort of like I think it is getting better in some regard. I think one of the biggest things for entertainment industry that I've seen, and I can't really speak to this because I am an able bodied person, but I know space for more accessibility and for people with different needs and different access needs.
That's something that I've been told needs a lot of improvement. And I can totally see how that would make sense. I think some of it's gotten a little bit easier with self taped auditions because now people can film auditions in their in their homes. But certainly there were a lot of barriers for folks when auditions were exclusively in
person. You know, like a lot of audition spaces were up a huge staircase or, you know, so like the, the, the ability for even someone in a wheelchair to be able to like, even audition for something was challenging. I guess it's like the biggest thing is just be really, really mindful about who is in your writers room. And also it needs to come from like the production side as well. I think. I think we've gotten a little bit better.
Again, still room for improvement, but we've gotten a little bit better at seeing more diversity on screen. And I don't even necessarily mean just racial diversity, obviously like there's slowly been more gender diversity on screen, etcetera. But if you're sitting, if you look at a writer's room and you're and everyone sitting at the table is a straight white cyst man, well, why are they writing about experiences that are not their own?
It's possible to do, but you should also have someone in the room who understands or can consult or, you know, yeah, I think just asking, like the why? It's like, who's telling the story? Why are you telling the story? I think even in in situations where there are diverse writing rooms, the people at the top are also. There's not a lot of diversity there either. And that's not to say that there's not space for everyone.
It's not to say like, oh, I'm not like, oh, there should be no more straights as white guys in film. Like, no, that's an insane thing to say. I know plenty who are wonderful and talented. But yeah, I think it's just clocking things and taking note when you're hiring. Just making sure that there is a beautiful cornucopia of folks on sets I think would be cool. But also, I haven't booked an acting job in like over two years. So who am I to talk about how
such should change? Like, I don't know. It's just this is the the Carmilla fact, right? And the Carmilla impact is people still want to talk about it and interview me. And I'm like, I'm just talking out my butt. I don't know what I'm saying. I mean, like I haven't, I haven't really been engaged in or involved in the industry in so long.
But from what I experienced before these initiatives, I can say, yeah, that's what I would want to see when I hopefully return to work in 2025. So you do have hopes to return to screen Oh. I always do. I had the most humbling comment where someone was like, whoa, why did you stop acting? And I was like, oh baby, I never stopped. I just don't, you know, there's so much that's out of your control as an actor. So certainly I auditioned for things. But it's been a wild, tumultuous times.
There were strikes, there were pandemics, you know? There's a lot going on. Yeah, So I, yeah, I never actually stopped and I haven't given up. It's just, I don't think people realize like, unless you're creating your own work, and even then there are a lot of barriers towards doing that. Yeah, lots out of your control. So, yeah, I know I've, I audition, I have agents, I have ideas kind of brewing for things I'd like to create. But yeah, I'm just keeping on, keeping on and still, still
working. But yeah, I hope that I, I get to do that. I've really been enjoying. Yeah, just getting to. I do a lot of improv comedy now. I do. I'm in a couple troupes. I've been doing a little bit of sketch comedy around Toronto and it's just been really nice to return to my first love, which
was the stage. And although, you know, I don't make money doing it, it's been really cool to like reignite my spark for creating and for why I do what I do and to do stuff that really fulfills my spirit and my my soul. It's been really fun. That's so important too though. Like you need to make sure to re remember why you love doing it and it's not just all auditions and waiting to hear back. Yeah, exactly. I'm someone who can't sit still.
And so when there were opportunities for me to sort of return to like my first love and all this stuff that I did pre Carmilla, it was like, heck yeah, I'm gonna do it. And also because as cheesy as it sounds, laughter really is the best medicine. And I was like, if I don't make jokes, I'm not gonna survive. So yeah, it's been really awesome to get to play. And then there's such a wonderful sense of community and teamwork that exists within the
improv world. And yeah, it's been really, really, really nice to just act for the sake of acting and just for the sake of being just a little little goofy guy. That sounds cathartic, truly love it. I'll have to. Check it out one day not that far of a drive. Are there any? Topics or stories that you'd wanna cover or explore in your through acting or any projects in the future.
If that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, not in particular, like I'm happy to answer any questions you have, but other than kind of focusing on the two improv groups that I'm in, like I don't have anything sort of major on the horizon. I've definitely been slowly crawling out of this little pit of despair and I have lots of ideas for things I'd like to create percolating. But yeah, I guess nothing I can,
like speak on yet too much. But it's been really nice to also be part of a musical improv troupe. They're called Staccato Staccato, which I think is a very cute name. And I'm a new member of that troupe. But I went to university for voice performance. So I was an opera singer for a long time and I stopped singing for a long time. And so it's been really nice to get to sing in a new way and in a, a Safeway and to get to combine two things that I love
so dearly. Like, it's just so wild to me that I spent so much of my life studying classical music and, like, working in musical theater. And then I started doing improv in like, 2004. And then I just, like, never thought to try musical improv. Like, I just, like, kept them so separate. And it's really, really challenging. It always feels like there are so many plates spinning.
Yeah, 'cause you're like, OK, I have to, like, make a coherent improv scene, but then also play this character and then, like, think about the narrative of the story, but then also we're making up songs on the spot. And so, yeah, it definitely a wonderful, wild way to exercise your mind and just, I just want to make people laugh. I don't know, I'm sort of at that. That all sounds. Like anxiety to me. Yeah. Anxiety. The truth, but that's fun.
I've never heard of that before. Musical improv, but like that sounds extremely challenging. Are you? Do you like dance in the skits too? Is it like triple threading all over the place as well? I've never heard of it before. It just makes it. Hard yeah. No one's really dancing. I mean, no one wants to see me dance, that's for sure. But yeah, it is essentially just like a musical that's.
Yeah, it's. Funny musical that is 30 to 30 minutes to an hour long, but it's all made-up on the spot based on the audience suggestions we get at the beginning of the show. And yeah, it's it's, I mean, I'm just impressed by my teammates. I'm, I'm still new to the format, but I love like, marveling at their ability to just like, create a whole story. And you're sitting there.
The first time I saw them before I was part of the troupe, I was sitting in the audience and I was like, oh, my gosh, this is like a fully formed musical. And I cannot believe that it's made-up on the spot. And the magic is like, it happens and then it never happens again. So yeah, there's something so special about that do. You have like any like musicians that play in? Is it just purely just the actors and they're like vocals that create the musical? Yeah, we have a music director
who plays piano throughout. Yeah, yeah, I did. Just, I did just find a triangle at a thrift store and I want to bring it to our next rehearsal because I was like, guys, if one of us just busts out the triangle, I think it's a very funny instrument. I don't know, it's so, it's so goofy. I was like, let's, let's, let's bring in some random percussion instruments. No, that's amazing. Funny. To. Just like bring in random instruments like you get like the little mouth thingy, yeah.
The spoons. Yeah, the spoons. Yeah, Oh my. God. It's deeply, deeply nerdy. Like I'm really in this era where I just, I'm like, I, I don't care about being cute or cool anymore. I'm like, I'm just having a fun time making bad art and playing and experimenting. It's a bit of a renaissance and maybe some will say I'm too old to be doing this, but I think it's really, yeah, it's play is so important. It's so important. Yeah, I agree with that. Well, thank you.
Those are all of our questions. Thanks for explaining what musical improv was. That's just changed my life. I think I'll find it now. Well, thank you for taking the time to talk to us today. We super, super appreciate it. And we really loved getting to know like what you're up to and, and for answering all of our questions for listeners out there who may be new to you, how can they support you, follow you, keep up with you, that kind of stuff.
Yeah, they can find me on Instagram at Natvanlis. It's my first name and my last name mushed together. And I'm also on Tiktok now at the same handle, although again, very ancient and feel 330 just as Carmela is. So I don't necessarily understand how to use it, but I'm trying to get better. But yeah, mostly on Instagram.
You can find me there. If you sign up for the broadcast channel, you'll get updates on when I have shows and just stay posted there because I don't know, maybe I'm going to like, put a newsletter out. I'm hoping to, you know, get out there in the world and start doing doing shows in other, other towns. Definitely. So yeah, that'd be amazing. So everyone follow along for that. And until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus. And get it up all over the
place. Bye. And with that, we've been big gay energy. Thank you for listening. We'd really appreciate it if you downloaded this episode and left us a review. No matter how brief, your contribution will help us reach a wider audience. We would love to hear from you about everything and anything. You can find us on all social media platforms at Big Gay Energy Pod or e-mail us at Big
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