Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy. I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora. Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media. Representation matters, and we're. Here to talk about it. Cheers queers, we are back with another super fun interview Today we have two special guests, Maggie Phillips and Kristen Higuera. They worked as music supervisors on Red, White and Row Blue. Welcome to the podcast Maggie and Kristen. Thanks, Caitlin.
Hi. I'm so excited to talk to you, and I'm sure that every fan of the movie is also very excited that you're here today. Thanks for having us. Of course, my first question is what does a music supervisor do? The simplest way of explaining is we are in charge of the soundtrack, so all the songs you hear in a movie we oversee. So that means selection, supplying selections, and so all the creative choices of all the songs and then all the clearances it takes to get them in.
So all the licensing rights, all the music rights negotiating those terms, all the paperwork that comes in. Yeah. Why'd you say Christmas? Oh, finding the the rights holders also. Finding the rights, yeah, finding the rights house, clearing them all, doing it within a budget, you know, all and all the paperwork that it entails. So. I'm assuming there's a lot of paperwork. Oh yeah, a lot more than people.
Do yeah, a lot more involved the paperwork and the clearances and all the music rights is is way more involved than anyone who could even begin to imagine. And then on a movie like this, which I think we had like 40 some 40 something songs in. Yeah, just it was 39, just 3940. Yeah, it was intense. Yeah. Wow. So did you work with Drum and Lace Sophia to create the original composition for the film?
No, we don't really. I mean that's an they're two independent paths like we are the we source the existing songs that you find in there or in some cases we helped create songs like we helped with some of the covers that are in here. We helped make that we made those happen.
The only way we really participate with score is we we got Sophia, drums lace like we pitched her for this project because we had worked with her previously and and and love we love her so we we're sorry we we we recommended her for this and then we help with spots and notes sometimes you know it depends on the project. Awesome.
OK, so my millennial Co host who wrote this question couldn't be here today and she felt obligated to thank you for choosing the millennial national anthem, Get Low, for the New Year's Eve dance song. It was the perfect song to facilitate Henry and Alex staring at each other across the dance floor while everyone else is getting low. Did you envision Get Low as the song for that moment, or were there any others you were considering?
I'll like Christian answers, but wait, but I just What did she call the millennial national anthem? That song was actually one of the first songs we went out to. Clear was scripted, so it was in there from the beginning. Knew we had to have it. It did. We didn't look at any other tracks for that spot. We worked around that song with like picking, I think. I think we have like 7 songs in that New York New Year's Eve
spot in under like 5 minutes. So that was kind of like our North Star in like, OK, how do we make this party flow seamlessly? And I think that that was math. He has a great song that was Matthew's idea, the director Matthew Lopez. But he also do you remember Kristen he just he said that the choreographer Kyle, how do you pronounce Kyle Hannah? Do you know how to pronounce his last name, HANAGAMI? He just. He. Choreographed Mean Girls the movie this. Oh, no, that's.
What he is really. Yeah, he he did all the choreography for Mean Girls. He's like, got a million followers on TikTok and Instagram, and I'm gonna and I forget how to pronounce the last name. I'm so embarrassed. But anyway, he's awesome. He pitched that song to Matthew as an idea for the choreography cause like the whole idea was how do we get them to be looking at each other in a big party scene. And so Kyle, this is Matthew's story.
Kyle said that like something like get low, they can all get low and they could be looking at each other not knowing that Matthew had scripted that song in. So it was like very kismet that that song is in it. And and yeah, that was. Moment like a subtle romantic. Moment, yeah. Yeah, little Jon and you gang twins like. Yeah, and but now you I that song played. I didn't realize how much you hear that song out there in the world working. Out classes? Always.
Yes. Always, always in spin class. And I can't now, I can't listen to it without, like there's no separating. Yeah, so. I know, we're watching it. She was like, yeah, that's everyone's reaction when you first hear actually listen to the lyrics for Henry's reaction to it. We that was not scripted that moment I was in London for that shoot and I called Kristen and I was like we have to quickly clear. They like added it on set.
I was like Kristen can you quickly clear this line about like calling out the lyrics about the sweat drink beating on the balls. They have to shoot it both ways, like shoot it with him saying that and not saying this, but they we got approval. So is it like you're only allowed to use it in a certain way and if you use it anywhere
else back? To our point where like clearances are extremely involved and no one realized how involved, but like when you clear a song, especially a song that's on camera like that, you're clearing it for a very specific use for exactly how it's scripted for the exact timing. And so any deviation from the scene description or from the dialogue has to be approved.
And then so like if if we clear this happens all the time more than you would expect, we clear something the way it's scripted and then someone will improv on day of shoot. If that stays in the cut, the improv, then we have you know we have to re clear it. And there are instances where the improv will be like we have a movie that's coming up and the improv is, is a little derogatory towards the song.
And it might, you know, they might get it might not be approved, the use could be denied. In fact, Kristen, you and I need to talk today. Well, glad to bring that up. So you can talk about that later. Yeah, yeah. Were there any scenes or moments where the music that you chose played a pivotal role in conveying the emotion, emotions or nuances of the characters relationships?
Yeah. I mean I think first thing that comes to mind and it was actually I think we can share this A placeholder is Perfume geniuses cover of can't help falling in love that really like I feel like that's such a romantic moment of bringing them together and and I feel like it was a little you know plays on both both of their heartstrings and running through the museum the V and A. But that was originally supposed to be another song by Perfume Genius and that ended up sticking in the cut.
We sent that over for Tab on set when they were shooting and it ended up working perfectly with the emotion of the museum with, you know, the emotion of the scene between Prince Henry and Alex. Yeah, so it stayed. The other one that comes to mind for me is a Vagabond cover of the Rodger Hammerstein Hammerstein 'cause that's like really getting into Henry's mind frame as he's leaving and I think is saying what he's not saying out loud. Yeah, I think those are the big, for me, the two biggest
emotional moments. They were both pointed out by our Patreon members. We I have a few questions from them later, but yes, so they were definitely loved by the audience. Oh, good. How did you ensure that the music reflects the diverse identities and backgrounds of the characters in red, white and royal blue? Well, we had a good partner in crime and that that was very critical to Matthew and the producers Berlanti, Sarah and Mike, who are our main producers
on this. And Henry was old school classic, you know, like he's got the dog named David for Bowie. And so we his was pretty obvious, like his choices were fun and clear from the book. And then Matthew wanted, which have a lot of Latinx voices for for Alex. And Kristen can speak to that a little bit because she really led the charge for those artists because like who did we put in the Marias? Who are some of your favorite artists that we put in the? Marias the Rigo.
I always put you her name. It's embarrassing. Rigo Berta. She did the Canciones de Amor and like the Montage spot in Texas when they're playing volleyball and like, you know, having fun with oops, sorry, Omar Apollo. Of course that was a fun. That was an amazing get. I mean, we have J. Balvin, Bad Bunny it Sofia Reyes.
But yeah, I think, I mean, Alex was fun to listen for because in, you know, in the book, in the script, he's described as like the coolest, you know, the coolest person in the world. His people are sending him music before it's released. So he got to be really eclectic with his taste and, you know, try to sprinkle in as many Latin X voices as possible, which there's so, so much great music, you know, it's a little bit more
mainstream now. So I feel like it's a lot more accessible and easy to pitch, you know, easy to get people on board with that and oops, sorry, he heard the doorbell, the room camera. But yeah, we got AI mean 39 songs in there and. It's a lot. Yeah, have a lot of good, good. We have some old school Mexican music. Luis Perez for Alex's dad. There's a lot of great stuff in there. Where do you even start? Like trying to pick music. Oh, we just brainstorm. I mean, that's what we have to
do with every project. That that's the fun part of our job is like just starting to listen. It's typically it's character driven and story driven. And we started, I mean, we used like Matthew, the director already had a playlist 'cause he had been working on it for a few months before. That's my my friend's puppy. Can I say hi Murphy? Oh my God, look at this little nugget of joy. Hi Murphy, it's going. To. Be a dog episode. Because my dog that was breaking out.
Here Hi. I'm talking about important stuff we had. There were fan playlists. There was the official playlist from the. Book. There was a lot of reference. Playlists. Yeah, Casey had a playlist. Yeah. We, yeah. I mean. We made a playlist for Alex and Henry and when we did we make a playlist for other the for I think we made. A playlist for we even made playlists, you know for Alex's dad. Like it. It really just depends on the
project and you know the time. Like sometimes we work on period pieces and we're we're limited to years so that that gets hyper specific. But for for this one, it's really, it's usually character driven in the sense of like any descriptors or anything that's already scripted. We kind of jump off that in whatever conversations we have
with the director or showrunner. But that, I mean that's my favorite part is kind of like the master brainstorm and then as we get into the kite we, you know, we see what works, what doesn't. But it's it's a lot of music usually, which is the the best part of the. Job. That's the best part.
That's the fun part. But that's when it's limitless, you know because then we're just having fun and we're just sharing music and and the director Matthew was so into music so we were just sharing songs back and forth and sharing ideas for the covers and and then it becomes more targeted because then you that was pre that was before they started shooting like that was just explorative.
And then and then you have to be specific about any scenes that are being shot to something specific, which were the party scenes the the the museum scene and then you get into the cut and then you're you you don't know until you start trying to stuff to picture what's going to work and how it how it'll work and how it'll affect the the visuals and you know how they'll feed off off of each other. But so then it becomes trial.
So then it's less like, you know first it's just like there's limitless and then it becomes you're limited and then and then it's like then it's just creatively limited because you have visuals and then it becomes a budget conversation and that's when it really doesn't get fun. You're limited by money. So, but that's the reality of was there.
Any that you would really have liked to, but the budget was just like no. No, I think we got everything in there that Matthew wanted, that we wanted. We got, I think, pretty lucky with this, with this film. No, no big constraints. Yeah, I mean, that's not typical at all. We had a healthy budget because Amazon knew it was going to be critical to the story and to the movie. And you know, we had a really great clearance person who I worked with on normal people.
So she was really good at what she did. Typically we do clearances. Luckily on this one we had it. There were so many clearances. We had extra help with that. But yeah, we didn't have any that came back. I wanted to be at any that came back.
I think also, you know, I will say artists wanted to be a part of this, you know, like and it was mostly for the most part younger artists who were excited to be like sometimes you have artists that are so iconic, so big that they're they don't need, they don't care something, they don't care, but it's just like, you know, this is our price no matter what, you know. But like we had artists that were willing to work within our
budget too. So that was helpful because people are really excited to be part of the project. Yeah, we're fortunate in this one. That's that's so rare. I think it's almost never. I would say like this might be the first time in an interview. I've been doing this for almost 20 years. It might be the first time where I'm like, no, we weren't limited by budget, but we we really weren't so.
That's awesome. Speaking of big artists, the film doesn't feature any Taylor Swift songs, but if you could add 1, which song would you choose? And. Why? Oh well. I was not ready for. This, I mean, one was, yeah, one was. One was discussed London. It's called London Boy. Right, Yeah. London Boy, I'm. Not a Swifty that was discussed. I don't know why it was shot down. I don't know either. We we talked about that extensively and then I think we just never found a a spot for it.
I think it's. I think it's that there wasn't a spot for it and I think then we considered a it for maybe second end credits, meaning it'll come on like 2 minutes into the credits. I think there was discussion like that would be the only spot for it. And that seemed like not a fair spot for a Swift you know, Taylor Swift song. You know, like that there there's if we're not going to be able to find a great placement for it, there's no reason to to do it.
So yeah, I would that was, but that was the only Taylor Swift song that was considered so. What was your just favorite piece like songs from the film? That's a good question. Yeah, I don't know. It's. Been a while. I know, I I I mean, it's gonna take a moment to answer. And also, all ours are like loaded with the conversations behind it. Like, I mean, I love the David Bowie song that you can barely hear. And I'm, I'm more a Henry. I'm also, it's 'cause I'm older, I'm more classic rock.
So I loved the uphill backwards. I loved Oliver Oliver SIM his. Yeah. Condition his reimagining of fruit just because that's that was an artist we really wanted in from the beginning and to have you know a special just a reimagining of his track it it's it's magic at the end that's a favorite. And then the whole New Year's Eve sequence like we're really proud of that just there's it's wall to wall music and you know our music editor Jim killed it
with the transition. It feels like a DJ is actually there and it's seamless and you feel like it's a party you want to be at. So that's when I, that whole sequence, love all the music in there. Like who doesn't love Bat Bunny? Yeah, I also, you know, I love the We're talking about putting Taylor Swift at the end. I liked the Chicano Batman that we got in at the end. I I love that song. That was kind of a win for us because that was like an artist we love and.
It is a last minute edition. It was the last minute edition, yeah. I think we were on the stage when. That, Yeah, a nice surprise. Yeah, we'll take. It, yeah. Did you ever have to work on a? Project where you just like did not like the music, but it's like either what someone else wanted. Yeah, just. Like yes. Yeah, we can't tell you what project. I mean, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you have to because, I mean, music is
personal. I mean, that's also a common misconception about music supervisors. We're just there putting in our favorite tracks for every show that we work on. That's that's not at all the case. You know, like we're working with someone else's creative vision. It's someone else's view viewpoint. You know, like we're facilitators of someone else's creative vision. It's not our project. And we're not the directors, we're not the creators.
So we're there to help someone else realize their their, their vision. And I mean it's very fortunate when we work with someone who has similar taste than we do, but that's not always the case. I mean, I think taste is very personal so. And it's, I mean the best projects are and I I feel like majority of our projects are, it's the best one that's collaborative. I mean you you're just you're sourcing so much music and discovering new music from showrunners and directors.
So it's when we're there to serve a purpose, and when we're discovering and collaborating, it's it makes projects amazing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I love, I mean that's one part of the job I really treasure is like is learning and growing with each project. Especially like when it's something new, like a genre that we're not really, well, first we get to, you know? Yeah, I I mean the rabbit hole's
the best. I love falling down, but like music listening rabbit hole or research rabbit hole kind of circling back to the to like clearances and finding, you know all the rights holders. Sometimes you go on, it's a treasure hunt where you're like looking up someone's cousin and DM ING them, trying to figure out like who has this last 10%. Which can be, you know, a great part of the job when it all
works out. But when you're on a timeline and you know people needed it yesterday, it it's a little stressful. But I mean, what job isn't stressful? Sounds like me trying to find contact info for interviews. Yeah, yeah, that's it's a lot with finding contact info. I also think this job back to taste. This show I started when I first started as a music supervisor which was in my late 20s or
early 30s. I was so snobby about my taste you know like so elitist and and and God I was such a snob. This this job has taught me to like really love everything and love everyone's taste and like really embrace the beauty and and and and differences. You know and how we listen and and what we listen to and what we choose to listen to. And I think it's it's a yeah, I I love that about that.
I love that that's what it's done to me as opposed to the opposite which I think some people expect us to be gatekeeping super gatekeeper snobs. But it's like no we love it all and like we love that that that everyone's super passionate about what they love. I and yeah, we're equal opportunity listeners, listen to it all. I think that's a great descriptor for the film as well, like celebrating all the differences and different cultures.
It's beautiful, yeah. Yeah. And finding a through line for everyone, like everyone. The commonality in that in the movie, because everyone's coming from very different walks of life, especially Henry and Alex. I mean, they do have like their elite political families as a through line, but like, they're very different dudes. But like, they're they're just finding someone who you connect with and who who gets you and who you can experience life together. You know, it doesn't matter
where you're coming from. It's just that you find that sort of connection. And I guess music's that same thing. Like, doesn't matter what you connect with, as long as you connect to something musically. Makes sense. So we talked about some of the challenges already, but like what are the biggest challenges you face as music supervisors? And you can like use examples from any project if you want. I mean, the biggest thing that's the most literal and obvious is budget.
Like, we're always limited by budget. And then honestly for me, the other hardest thing And then I'll be interesting to what Kristen says she thinks her greatest challenges are. For me, it's budget. And then the other thing is just politics and like personalities and just, you know, navigating. Everyone's lot of navigating, lot of navigating. Middle child, the middle children. Middle you will middle children. Yeah, we're trying to make a lot of people happy.
And I mean back to I love music and I love that everyone has an opinion. But the negative side is everyone has an opinion. Music is the one thing where think about it, anyone who watches it is going to have an opinion about the song in there. They're not going to have an opinion about the costume or like the edit choice or like the lens choice or the acting choice.
Because like that's something that's a little more of a craft that is obscure and and you don't know exactly what goes into it. But everyone listens to music and everyone has an opinion about music. So when we're working on any project, everyone who watches it, who's involved? The producers, the studio, the editor, the director, the showrunner, the writer, the editor's assistant editor, the the director's 10 year old son. Like everyone has an opinion about music and we have to hear
about everyone's opinion. And you know, we try to make everyone happy. But yeah, there's you can't do it. Can't make everyone happy. I'd say I mean agree with, agree with Maggie. I'm still learning how to navigate the political landscape. I'm I'm new to music supervision. I've I've been a coordinator for the past five years. So this is only my second film as a supervisor. So the political landscape's still new and will come with its challenges.
But I'd say from my point, I think clearances when you have sometimes they're really easy and straightforward and that's amazing. But what I said earlier, just when you can't find that last piece and you're like chipping away and chipping away and calling people and calling people. Has anyone else cleared this before? I'd say that and it's a lot of paperwork and you just have to be really diligent and it's you
don't like any surprises. So it's just like almost like, you know, we're basically paralegal sometimes, but I think that is my biggest challenge often. But for this one, I mean we didn't have to do clearances. It was just kind of like making sure we were communicating all the necessary information and we went through a lot of cuts, a lot of music changes as you know, we got through the cuts.
So it was just kind of like staying on top of everything and making sure everyone had the information that they needed because that's also part of the job. We're we're often watching a project sometimes 16/17/20 different times and you see it in all forms of life before you know VFX is in, before everything's finalized. So it's just making sure you're not missing anything because surprises do happen, so you have to, you know, you got to stay on top of it. Yeah.
You mentioned earlier about like finding the last 10%. So like are there multiple people that you have to go through to get like one song? Oh yeah. So sometimes you have only one licenser that you need to go to and they represent publishing, which is the lyrics, the composition and the recording. Sometimes you're going to 610 different parties to get publishing because it's split up. So like if we all wrote a song
together, you know you own 50%. I own 25, Maggie owns 25, but we're all with different people, excuse me, still a little hoarse. A music supervisor or coordinator would have to go to have to go find whoever represents or whoever controls our publishing. So often with, you know, older tracks that gets a little tricky
because of the states. Sometimes it's a little bit more straightforward because you know, you have major licensers and we have databases, but those aren't always up to date that we can utilize to look for missing pieces. But it it gets tricky when there's like 10 riders on a track and you're you're missing three 3%. You're like, who has this 3%? And then it's like some guy on Instagram that you have to DM and no one represents him. So you're just like hoping he answers back.
It's happened. True story. But yeah, that's that's a challenging part. But it's also fun sometimes. Persons become a good stalker. Basically, the CIA. Like I could work for the CIA. Oh my gosh. We would get along. Yeah, that's what I do. They every Ciora who's the Co host, always tells me that I would be great in the CIA. Yeah. Professional creeping. It's fine, yeah. As long as you use your information for good, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So what if you can't find that
3% you like? You just can't use this. I mean can't. Use the. We can't use it, but we have. You know, sometimes people won't accept no for an answer, so you have to find a way. Like you have to find a way. So you have to find these people. Yeah, no. Yeah, 'cause directors, producers don't want us to be, don't. I mean, some people are more reasonable than others. I mean, it's Hollywood, you
know? You don't work with a lot of reasonable people in Hollywood. So when we tell them, if we tell them, like we've tried everything, we can't find a certain rights holder. Most people are just like we they don't accept no for an answer. And look, we don't get paid for our time, We get paid a flat fee. So like, they don't care if it's on. Takes us six months to find. We do because it breaks down to like a dollar an hour. But whatever. I mean, it's the path we chose.
Oh, that sounds so difficult. Yeah, it is. This job is not for the faint of heart, that's for sure. Like, it's a it's a job that most, a lot of people, I think they want to do. But then when they find out what it really entails, it's like, oh, maybe it's not the dream job that I thought it was, You know, so I. Feel like that's a lot of the entertainment industry. I think so. I think so. I think this one is again because everyone has opinion
about music. A lot of people have this like oh, would you just pick up cool songs and but they have no clue all the other parts of it that aren't cool. There's even a joke about it. Have you all seen May December? Yeah, I Oh my God, I'm hearing that joke. Yeah. There's like one of the characters is like, I heard there's this really cool job called Music Supervisor that like, you get to pick out songs for movies. Like, I think I could do that.
I was like, it's so funny. It was a joke in the film. But yeah, I mean the actress there, I mean, that is a cool part of the job, but it's like 10% of the job, so. And then you could pick stuff, but then it's just going to get vetoed by other people, right? Yeah, it's going to get vetoed, yeah. And even if you get to pick out all the cool songs, which we have, a handful that we get to do all the selection, we still have to clear them. Also. And we we like weird shit too.
So we're not, we're not picking the easiest to clear stuff either. Like we don't because we're always trying to make it the best, You know? You don't want to. You don't want to put in the easiest stuff out there, so. You both have worked on many different projects. What has been your favorite to work on? You mean, besides red wine, royal blue? I mean, you could include it as well, but yeah, other than that as well. I mean, my favorite. My favorites are really the great. I love.
I love, love, love working on the great that has been cancelled. Yeah, and our flag mean stuff I would say. For me, those are my two favorite projects of recent years, and. And our flag meet. Yeah, that's. So rough right now. I know. I mean, we just found out it's cancelling. I mean I'm still just devastated. For me, the projects I like are projects that create creatively.
We get a lot of input like someone who really appreciates our opinion and is very collaborative with us creatively and respects our opinion and like you know really wants to have our our our prints, prints on you know creative like on the song choices. So it's not like that but then moreover kind good people who run a very respectful team of people who care about what they're doing and and are just
just good people. So so those are the two things for me that make a project special and and the great and our five main stuff are the two that come to mind. Most recently I, I, I, I love working with Sam Esmel too I would have to say him for leave the world behind and Mr. Robot homecoming like he really pushes me and I love working with him. What would you say, Kristen? What if we're? I loved working on the great. That was just the team, the
collaboration, the, the music. We got to listen for the project itself. I'm a fan of. I really enjoyed working on an FX show called Kindred. It got cancelled after one season, but just creatively. That was really fun to listen for and unlike a lot of the music, like consistently unlike a lot of the music we've had to listen for. So that that project I felt really close to. And then we did a movie a lot 2 years ago, but it came out last year with Dave Franco.
Dave Franco wrote it with his partner Alice and Bree. And that was really fun to listen for and work on just because that somebody I used to know. Yeah, somebody I used to know on Amazon Prime. But that was really fun to listen for. And, you know, it was kind of like really millennial music, which is fun and old. And Dave was great to work with. Yeah, he's awesome. Yeah, we love working with him. But those are my favorite in the past few years that come to mind
immediately. Gosh, no one watches. I mean, we don't talk about much, a lot because, yeah, it's not musically we don't get asked about a lot because the music is very minimal. But we love working on that show and it's a really well written show, yeah. Is it easier or harder choosing music and doing everything for like a show that has more than one season? So like do you establish it in season one and it'd be easier
from there? Or is it just like basically starting a new project each season season? I think you know, for the most part, most if we start from a season one, then it's pretty consistent across every season. But if we join during a season 2 or a later season, usually a showrunner or a director will, or I guess a showrunner In this case, because it's TV, we'll have something different in mind and we're kind of starting from scratch.
And it really just depends. It's totally project dependent. It depends. Yeah. Well like a snowfall. We did six seasons of that and the the the music was so clear our task. But that show was challenging from beginning to end. There was never and that was challenging because the clearances were challenging. The budget was really low. The expectations we we said it was our fault. We like started off like doing something really cool and then we had to maintain it for many years.
But then yeah, there are some shows that like just because there's no, like you've set a pattern and then it's just following in the footsteps that you've you've set up it. It really depends. It really depends on the project. Cause 'cause like that's it's every project's run by different humans and humans are no, there's no consistency. So it really depends on the project. Awesome. OK, so now I just have a few questions from our Patreon.
We asked them if they had anything they would like to ask. So why? Their first question is why did you decide to use I Can't Help Falling In Love instead of Elton John's My Song like in the book. Yeah. Not the first time we've been asked that that wasn't our that was a the director's decision and he I I mean he's a huge Elton John fan because we were trying to find another spot for Elton John. I don't remember. What do you remember, Chris, and why?
No, we we there was discussion about using Elton John somewhere, but like I mentioned earlier, we sent, we sent can't help falling in love as a placeholder like that was never meant to stick. It was just meant to, you know kind of set the scene for the shoot and then it. But he was. It it's end up sticking. But he was certain it wasn't going to be Elton John. My song from the beginning, I don't remember.
Why? I don't remember why either, but he definitely maybe he wanted a younger, he wanted a cover there. He always wanted a cover, an original there. So that's why we sent the cover, the perfume. Like we came up with some examples of good covers, like good current covers and and then we fell in love with Perfume Genius's voice for that spot. And we were talking to Perfume Genius about doing a new cover for for the movie covering a Madonna song.
And we were gonna do that. But then they shot to I Can't help falling in love. And then they started cutting to it and everyone loved it. And lyrically, I think it worked better than anyone thought once everyone started watching it. So it really like then we have to talk to perfume geniuses. I think Matthew talked directly to him and we talked to his people and explained like we can't beat the song that's already in there, you know, like that's the one we want.
So and I don't like there's a thing called temp love, which is a term we use a lot like when someone falls in love with the temp, you know, and I I mean that factored in here, but I I think in this instance it was the right, like temp love is kind of seen as like a negative like you know, people can't break out of what was in there. But in this instance I think it really was the right choice for that moment. But yeah, my song was never considered, never.
Like that was just and that was it from Matthew, the director. Good to know. It definitely worked. Yeah, I wish. I mean, so that would be a question for Matthew about why he didn't want it. I I don't remember why or I don't know if he ever gave us a reason. But it's not because he isn't a huge Elton John fan. I mean as are we. So I just because we did try Elton John in other places so. Now, I think we actually did talk about this, so, but I'll
ask it anyway. Were there any songs you really wanted but couldn't get, or any that you wish you didn't use? I know that part's smooth. No comment. There are. There are a few that we aren't Aren't our favorites, but. But. That's a. Yeah, I mean it. It's not for just us and our, you know, it's for trying to appeal to a wide audience. But I don't think there's any that we really wanted that didn't get in. I mean, I was super excited to do a cover of a Madonna song.
I will say that like I'm an 80s girl. I was so excited like we got a we she cleared it. I was very excited to do Madonna songs. So, but, but I love what we put in there. So. That's great. All right, last one. Why did you decide to go with Vagabond? Mary thought it was the perfect choice. Well, thanks Mary. You know, we had a big list of artists we wanted for covers and she was at the top and Matthew really responded to. Yeah, luckily, Matthew responded.
And it just it all worked out because you know. She wanted. She wanted to be a part of it. Yeah. I mean, everyone was all. I wasn't she. Was definitely like top three for, yeah, yeah. She I wasn't familiar with that Rodgers and Hammerstein song and it's it's a whole new song to me and I hope it's a whole new song to younger generations or anyone who's probably not familiar with it because it it just like cuts in that moment, like you feel the heartbreak.
She created magic. And that was Matthew's idea. And Matthew who? His background. I don't know if you're familiar with his resume, but his background's in Broadway and and and in theater, so it was his idea. I did know the song, not well, but like you know, I'd heard it before. It's from Oklahoma, right? I don't get it from or Carousel. Carousel it's from carousel. Carousel, Yeah.
And what Matthew wanted, which I thought was so beautiful, he's like, he wanted a song that would bridge over multiple
generations. So a song that like if if someone's great, if someone in their teens or 20s was watching it with their grandparents, their grandparents, might be like, I recognize the song, like these lyrics are familiar and it clearly someone you know 30 or younger would have no clue what the song is. So, like, you know, it's a totally new song for them, but it's something that could maybe create a conversation between generations.
Like, you know, grandparents could be like, well, let me tell you why I know the song. And, you know, like, so just like a talking piece and like something that's something Matthew really wanted to do other than like make a sweeping, wonderful, big Hollywood romantic comedy. I mean, you know, romantic story, not romantic comedy. He wanted something that would be appealed at every to multiple
generations. And and you know something that like someone in their 40s like me could watch, someone in their 70s could watch, like my parents could watch and then someone's kids could watch and love too. And I think he really achieved that so. That's that's very sweet. Yeah, I think he's so sweet, dude. Yeah. All right. Well, that's all the questions I have for today. Do either of you have any final words for the listeners before we wrap up? What was your favorite song on
the soundtrack? I have to say like the they can't help falling in love. It was just perfect. Perfect for the moment. Yeah, it is. Why? That's why something like that sticks. When I say it's not. It wasn't temp love like there was movie movie magic was made there. No, I just said thanks for your interest. Thanks for reaching out and wanting to talk to us about this. And we appreciate all the fans and everyone loving it and watching it makes us they. Definitely love it.
They won as much as possible, so we're trying to give it to them. Awe awesome. Thanks for having us, Caitlin. Yeah, thank. Thank you again for taking the time to talk with me today. I really appreciate it. And we all loved getting to know you because I'm going to speak for everybody watching already and to everyone at home listening, make sure to check out red, white and royal blue streaming on Amazon Prime. And until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus and get it up all over the place.
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