Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy. I'm Bree. I'm Theora. And I'm Caitlin. Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media. Representation matters, and we're here to talk about it. Cheers, queers. Today on the Big Gay Agenda is a new Big Gay Agenda item because I feel like our agendas are cursed at this point. So originally we had another episode that we were going to record, but life got in the way.
So we last minute came up with this new Big Gay Agenda item today, where we'll be talking about L, GB T. Q Ships. I'm. Very excited. So am I. I mean, who doesn't love? Ships, right? The Internet definitely does. I've been excited. About this, we asked all of you about ships, and it's like the most engagement we've had in social media since Warrior. None. So like everybody, a lot of passion surrounding ships. Yes, which is why we love them. So. You ready to get into it?
Yeah. All right. All right, Caitlin, let's switch ARU. I'm just gonna share my screen. All right. I have to add it. You have to add it. Yeah. Okay. So today we're gonna talk about, like I said, LGBTQ ships. Talking about who we captain. Who you, captain? And everything in between. So let's. Before we begin, hold on. I just want to hey talking. I want to give a shout out to Theora. Maybe now. Maybe.
Not. For always creating these PowerPoints, if you're watching, if you're listening, we will describe to you if we need to. But yeah, Theora puts in a lot of work for these PowerPoints and it's very nice of her. So continue. Thank you. It's a job. Glad that I talked. I'm so glad I didn't give you the talking rainbow stick, but that's wow. I'm. Just messing with. You just be stink. Listen, this is all about ships. And like you said, Bree passion.
So this may get passionately heated, right? That's why we're all here. All right. So let's move on to I. Wait, I am at the end of the fucking PowerPoint, Because of course I am. We double checked that like three times. Okay, sorry. We only see the first slide. Great, that's cuz the 1st and the last are exactly the same. This is why. All right, so before we get into the actual shifts themselves. I'm good at. PowerPoints because I literally part of my job is educating so I
make these all the time. So I always like to start with the beginning. So what is this? Why are we here? Kind of thing so. What is shipping? It's it's like fandom. It's a term that like comes up all, like all around. But like, what is it? Where did it come from? Like, how did we get this term that's so ubiquitous and just like media, fan spaces? So the formal definition that I found was that it's the desire by followers of a fandom.
So if you want to know what a fandom is, go check out our Phantom episode for two or more people, either real life people, which. That's anyway or fictional characters to be in a romantic or a sexual relationship. So that's what shipping is. We want these for the context of this show. We're gonna be talking about fictional, not real life people. Fictional characters still like get together basically. So where did that term come from? It may not surprise you.
It's come from the English word relationship, so the ship part at the end and. The evolution of this is really interesting. So originally it started as relationshippers was like the full word. And then it got and then as we do as humans, we're like, that's a really long word, let's make this smaller. So it got smaller and smaller and it became our shippers, which I sounds like X-rated to be really weird and then eventually just became shipper. So, like, that's kind of how we
got that word. Did you guys know? This or just this? No information. I didn't know the long name. Me either the evolution of the name and I'm like, OK, they went a really roundabout way to get here, no? Totally like, I like shipping. To me as a native English speaker. I'm like, OK, relationship, right? Like, just start with relationship, right? And then be like, what are we doing guys? I don't know why it makes me think of chocolate chip cookies,
but it does. I just, I don't remember hearing like any of these terms until like 2012. So did you do research into like what the first ever ship was? Is it on the next slide? Yes, Caitlin, we need to bring us to the next slide. So one question I have is, so who was the first ship? It's the first shit that Caitlin's that kid that ruins the ending for everyone. I try not. To hold on, my screens got messed up. I know, all right. I'm just not going to be able to see you guys.
My screens got messed up. We can still see us. Never mind, it's just laggy. Hold on. I'm going to okay now that technical difficulties have been resolved. I'm impotent as you are. Or clairvoyant. Yes. So who was the first ship? Because I came across this and thought it was interesting and it came it came along with the term that's. Is it Charlie Chaplin in a train? Oh my God, how many people are going to get? That is my question.
I don't get it. Oh, oh, I know what Charlie Chaplin is. Oh, OK. That is not the answer though. What's the answer? It's Mulder and Scully from The X-Files. Make, I almost said Make ship. Instead of make it, it sure does So the term shipping or ship came about in 1995 because of these two, because fans kept watching them and they're like. They should be together. Why are they not together? And so that's where the whole terminology really started and
like came from. So you can thank Mulder and Scully for shipping and that's how we're here today. So that surprised you at all? They didn't ship Sherlock Holmes. They fandomed them. But not ship Sherlock with what's the other dude, Watson. Yeah. There's plenty of that now, but like I'm sure like people have been shipping stuff forever, but like the term itself. And like the rise of that term came from the ship, just like the fandom characteristics came
from the Sherlock Holmes book. So because I feel like people are passionate and we've been shipping things forever, it's just now collectively we are all talking about shipping together and we have our own term for it. So there we are. So now that we know what ships are, who was the first ship let's talk about. Lesson shipping. So what qualities do you look for in a ship? I pulled the audience and put it out on, you know, the social medias and what people generally like and we came up.
This is the collection of stuff that people have submitted as qualities that they look for in a ship. So the pacing of the ship is slow. Is it fast? The writing of the media, it's well written versus not as well written. How adorable are they? Do the characters have chemistry that works? Angst. Was a big. One, and I agree with is there an element of hope for the ship? Some people like certain tropes like enemies to lovers, came up a bunch of times.
One I found really interesting was are the characters in the ship relatable, Which is an interesting one and I guess if you relate to it, you're more likely to like be drawn to it. Elements of vulnerability between the characters and. The elements of trust. And so do you agree, disagree, or is there anything that's not on here that you look for in a ship? Like, what do you guys look for? They're queer, that's all. That's it? No, but definitely recently. I mean, think about it, if any.
If there's any queer ship you'll I at least more likely to be like all right fine. I'll wait for it. That that what you shared in the slide is is a great general collection of what makes you ship it. Some couple on on me in media and then I think after that you're just getting into the specifics of what you like personally. So I think that's a that's a really great, like generalization of why people ship things. But I personally do look for
like, I don't. And you know, it's it's weird because some ships that I've had, I would never have thought that I would ship them until it happened. So I never look for my ships, they just slap me in the face to be honest. You just end up on the ship and they're like, how did I get. Yeah, and I'm like, what freaking did I get off of just now? Where I got, I'm like, okay, fine, I guess I will put on a tricorn hat and get a peg leg because we're pirates up in here. Oh my gosh.
What do you think, Caitlin? Do you agree? Disagree. I mean, I feel like the chemistry is the biggest one because like the two. And that's why crack ships become a thing, because two characters have too much chemistry and it's casting's fault. It's the actor's fault for being so damn chemical. Yeah, but I preparing for this episode. I realized that I must like enemies to lovers more than I thought I did. Yeah. I noticed that too. Me. I was like, oh, all right.
Yeah, it's just like something about it up on you. It is. It's the tension. You don't. Sometimes you don't even realize what you go for. And I think this is true in real life and in your fictional relationship preferences, you don't realize what you're at. You actually go gravitate towards until you know there's enough of them to where you look back and you're like, wait a minute. Yeah, it reminded me of this girl that, like, I really did
not like. And like, we kind of both didn't get along with each other and having the biggest crush on her. Yeah, I'm telling you. I will say yeah. And researching this was illuminating because you just shipped your ships and you don't think about it when you actually have to sit down and think about it. I really like the tragic ones. My list of ships for, like, the tragic section was like, I had to cut them all out. Cuz there's so many. I'm like, wow, this is you and your anks. Revealing.
I love it. It just it's a different level of chemistry. Because for me, I some people are just like, I wanted to be happy immediately. I don't like that personally in media because like it's about the journey, not the destination for me. Like I like the journey, and if it happens to me, there's no journey anymore, so I like it. Being Turns out we could start out happy and then get angsty like a ship. We're going to talk about like it starts out and you're like,
hey, this is awesome. And then the whole ride is just angst is basically it. Yes, I like that too and there just needs to be some angst to keep. It's like a a chemical that goes into the chemistry. It keeps it interesting, it keeps going like lovers to enemies to lovers. That's that's when it. Keeps like going, yeah. What's an example of that one? Do you have one at the top of your head, Rayla? Really. Yeah, Literally. I wasn't here for most of that. Podcast okay, I wasn't
indefinite. Speaking of that, you guys set me up like this. Let's move on to the first ship that really launched this podcast. So back if you're new to this podcast. Welcome way back when we started off as Big Witch Energy and we were focused on one television show called Motherland Fort Salem and Bri and I founded the podcast and got together because
we love the show. And I think it's safe to say that the reason we're here is mainly because of this ship that was in the show with rail collar and Cilla Rams horn. In the show, Motherland Port Salem. So make an honorary like Hall of Fame status for this episode because without them there wouldn't be a pod. We wouldn't be airs because they're the reason we're really here. So yes, Pre please explain.
Explain Rayla to the good people at home that don't know them or would like to reminisce, because it's all about the journey. If you haven't seen Motherland, go watch and go watch it. Our listener episodes find it somewhere. We there's a way, there's a way? Somebody asked. Me that. And I was like, is it available anywhere? It used to be on Hulu, Disney, and then they started removing stuff like, yeah, I think it. Might I think you buy it pay. Yeah, I think you have to pay.
It's like $2.00 an episode or something, but first of all rude. Secondly homophobic. Homophobic. So Motherland is a show that starts off episode one. Very queer and yeah. Because I had never seen anything like that in episode one of a television show that was, you know basically your almost your prime time type television show and it just they go in hard because Rail gets to, gets to basic training and then she meets this girl and then they're up against the wall.
That's basically. Maybe. Maybe fucking in the first episode. So it starts off they got this ship of staffing ship that goes zero to 100 in the first episode, which what true to life anyway, it's great. And then you fight. You know, as the as the episodes come, you find out some interesting things about Cilla that make you doubt her loyalty. I don't want to like, is it spoilers if somebody hasn't, if you haven't seen it. You just just in case, just out
and throwing this out there. There will be spoilers for the vast majority of these ships. We're going to be going through them pretty quickly. So, like, even if we spoil it, little teeny tiny bit, please go watch whatever this is. Anyway. Yes, please. So basically, there's a whole Is she evil? Is she not evil question for a while and then there's a oh, definitely not a great great situation that's going on here.
And then we have the great they're a part time and we have the great coming back together time and that's basically it. I mean, but they had the it's a it's a ride. What was the trope? The trope for them was they were lovers. It was enemies. Lovers to enemies to lovers to married. Lovers to enemies. Lovers to Enemies to Lovers to married. Yeah. So it's like it's a journey, this ship, like you said. Yeah, yeah, that's just. But like their example is super
rare. I'm just like they start off together immediately, episode one, and then go on a journey and they are such a well done ship, well acted. We even had the privilege of talking to Taylor Hickston, who played Grail Collar about her. You know process and how she played Rail and it just it it speaks, not speaks, but it reads very like genuine. It's well acted chemistry. So it has all the elements that make a really good ship that you can found a podcast on. Which we did, Yep.
And this is a applause. For you guys for creating the podcast. This is a. Pirate for. Our OG lesbian Jesus rail collar? Exactly. That's where that came from. Hydrate. I would also like to say that I don't have many ships in my life, that I still ship and I still ship these two because for some reason I they just, they hit all the boxes for me. Hydrate. Because witches. Because like you witches, women. What's the W word and wonder?
Well, I mean you you had the kind of like anti authority thing going on that was really attractive to me, they. Were both rebels in a way? Yeah, they were. Yeah. So you had the rebel thing going on and you had like the terrorism aspect, which was interesting. What? Did you say Caitlin? The whole show was a rebellion. Yeah, yeah, but you have them on opposite sides of the rebellion tutor of the Rebellions for like a minute. So like. Yeah, but you are correct.
The show itself is fantastic. Hence like why we we talked at length about this show. Other thing I wanna know is they have the classic Safic ship where it's one is blonde and one is brunette. Classic classic dating back to the days of your when that was the only way you could have a female ship is if they had different hair colors so you can tell them apart. Go back. It's it's it's very consistent. For like decades, one had to be blonde, one had to be brunette. Otherwise, was it queer?
I mean there? Hair color. Yes, I do. There was really only one difference in that I can think about the top of my head, and it was just because that actor happened to have a different hair color. I mean it was different than the other. It's rare, though. Yeah. They always have rare because you can't have sisters then. It's weird, yeah.
Yeah, so absolutely love them. Check out Motherland if you have it. We have so many episodes about it. Interviews and if you're listening, Amalia And check please. Yeah, this girl. Get back in here. Get back in here so we can talk to you. We're so close, guys. We were so close. Very. Very. Tag her. Remind her that we're trying to talk to her anyway. So, Amalia, please come on the podcast. I don't care what, I don't care what what year it is. I will talk to that woman about
that character. And I know we could talk about them all day, and we have, but we will, we will move on from our like honorary big energy ship that started the whole thing. And from there we'll move on to what I will deem the section maiden voyages so. Listening. Go on YouTube. Slash. If you're a patriot, you'll get this early. And check out the visuals that go with us. It only gets worse. It's like terrible clip art. Yes, I. Love it. It's so bad. It's good. I love it.
Exactly the boat. The boat is just. The boat is. Yeah, it's oh, I'm sorry, continue Theora. Oh no, that's part of. This was to be entertaining for you guys. I love it. All right, so I'm calling this The LGBTQ Maiden Voyages because I feel like, at least for me, growing up at a time where, like, outwardly queer media was like few and far between. I feel like shipping started with, like, a lot of heterosexual ships, because
that's all we had. And I, the Internet didn't exist and I didn't have the ability to ship things. But like. Those ships existed. So for this section we're going to talk about our first like queer ship that like we can recall shipping for the very first time. Like what was your the maiden voyage, the first ship you ever captained.
So we'll start first with which will what will be surprising to no one is free ship because you talked about it in the fan episode and that is, well, I'll let you explain free for the listeners at home that can't do this. All right if you never watched Buffy. And can get it. Get that? I mean, watch it there's. It's so. Good. It's so good.
There are a lot of problematic things that have come out in the after, but the show itself is still good for a lot of reasons and brought a lot of first things to the world, including the first recurring queer relationship on primetime TV. Which was Willow and Tara. So season four, they introduced the character Tara, who was a friend of Willows, and you didn't see her all that much. They went to a wicked group together and that's where they met.
And then as time went on, there is an episode that is kind of an acclaimed episode of that show. Called Hush, she was a silent episode. So good. I love that episode. And in that episode, you see quite a bit more of Tara because she's helping Willow figure out what's going on with the town, which is in the grips of these fairy tale monsters in the episode. So then you get to see their relationship develop from there.
They become a couple. And we deal with Willow coming out to first and foremost the most important scene, Buffy, where it was. Buffy is taken aback, very, and like, doesn't really know what to say. It's a very awkward scene. But she's supportive. She just doesn't know what to say kind of thing because it's out of left field for her, because she's never thought about that because, well, I've been dating Oz. I. Played by Seth Green before that so. Yeah.
To her, for her to have been kind of keeping this to herself and then all the sudden she's like, hey, so I am not straight and I am dating Tara. It's like a big thing. So after that we got some really great scenes with these two and it was all fine and dandy. There was a breakup at one point because Willow, they wanted to do that whole addiction storyline with Willow. And then unfortunately, as soon as I get back together, yes, it comes knocking the Bury Your Gays trope. Yeah, like.
Oh my God. Let me tell you I if I had not been spoiled to know that this was going to happen. I would have lost my ever loving mind. I still watched the episode, and I was still angry as hell because it didn't make any freaking sense. No, let me say for the baby gays out there that have never watched the show, the stray bullet that kills Tara walked so that Klexa could run like this was like the blueprint before we even get the Klexa shit Because like, it made no sense and it
was some bullshit. And rightful outrage ensued from this nonsense, from from Willow and the and the and the audience. And yes, you had the outrage. And then afterwards, Willow goes evil. And that's another problematic thing. It's just like 5 layers of what? Why? What are you doing with our queer characters right now? It's like it's like they took a bomb to the ship. And then poisoned the ship and added a few demon pirates onto the ship. And they just, like, kept
getting worse. And it spiraled from this piece of homophobia that, yeah, Hara didn't deserve that shit. So it's like, we're going to kill Tara and then we're going to make the other queer character evil because of the eggs that she's in over the death of her partner, so that she just got back. And I'm like. Yes. Don't leave that out. This wasn't something. This wasn't like a scene where you just were like, kind of saw her get shot.
This was a scene where a bullet came through a window, went through her chest, and blood splattered on the other character, Willow. And you saw her this, like, visually, viscerally getting, like, murdered by a stray bullet. After they just made-up from being a part like it's literally clexa. Like this was the Boothler guys fucked up shit. And it was not handled well afterward. I mean, eventually they gave Willow another love interest and everyone hated her. I liked.
Her. I liked her too. I liked Kennedy too. She was a sassy little Malassie but. A lot of people didn't like her, and I think it had a lot to do with the negativity surrounding Tara's death. So yeah, I think that's fair. And then in in the Buffy world, maybe this is Joss Whedon thing, I don't really know. But I noticed in the show it's very like OTP, like one true pair type of characters where it's like the character gets like one love interest that's
like the most meaningful one. Which is why I find Willow really interesting, because she has two based on the phases of her sexuality. So I think people were kind of maybe mad because like that kind of almost like breaks the norm of like what that show had, where it's like really Buffy had Angel, and it was always about Angel, even when she was with other people and like that kind of stuff. So I could do without Buffy's relationships. Yeah, me too. Especially Spike myself.
But that's what I mean. Like, so anyway. We're not getting out of Buffy Tangy. But no, I understand. I understand the outrage. But so my my my main. Thought overarching all of this is that this was a time period where you was the end of the 90s, the early 2000s type era where you had still had like no rip. I don't think you had much representation in writers and directors, in people like you.
You didn't have those voices sharing information on and you didn't have audience audience outcry to. The extent like we had, that was the first one that I recall where it was a big, huge shout from the community. So from there it had to build and build and build because we kept getting shitty representation and shitty outcomes. So it was a straight white dudes vision of what he wanted to do with the show with no regard for queer audiences. That's how I feel about it.
Yeah, unfortunately. That has not changed. It's gotten better. But that is probably in queer media, just unfortunately. Sys. Straight, white men. Yeah, yes, to clarify. But regardless, they are an iconic ship for many reasons. Groundbreaking at the time. It was well paced. It hits a lot of the elements of why you would. Captain A ship like that. Yeah, it was like the first time I ever saw, like, women actually be able to just be in a relationship on TV at like, at a prime time.
Like, wow. They're actually, like, letting them kiss and like, be cute and shit. Yeah, it was very sweet. Yeah, all. Right. Well, bye bye maiden, Voyage, Tara and Willow forever You are imortalized. At this time, we'll move on to mine. That makes no sense. No, we jumped. We're jumping. It's back. There we go. Caitlin's OK, so mine isn't cannon. This is a crack ship. Yes, that's really gotta start somewhere because so my journey, I had to learn that you don't ship real life people.
When I was like, I was very very tiny relative to all of this stuff. So primal. Ours is the first time like I feel like I got into ships. And my first one was technically Ezrea because I didn't let myself be clear yet. So and I was also very innocent and didn't know since 7th grade and didn't know that teachers and students shouldn't be together. So I always love Spencer and Aria and then I've I heard someone talk about Asparia and I was like, I I like those two
together. So I jumped on that ship and I don't have as much to say as break, but those two together, they had such great chemistry. I mean, there's four girls like the they split down the middle and the two, like Hannah and Emily could be together and Spencer and Ari could be together like that's. I would ship Hannah and Emily, Yeah, yeah. I mean like they they both split off really nicely and they their chemistry is great. Someday we need to talk about this, Caitlyn.
Yes, I know we have. We have talked about this and. I mean like in in depth. Yeah, I think you guys should this and then we have to do, I mean this is Grey's Anatomy with Pierre. Those are the two episodes that we need to do at one point. But yes, so Spencer and Aria, hopefully somebody out there will see what I see. And they did because the name. I'm sure there's fan fiction.
There's there are things people see the vision, Okay, Crack jokes I think are so fun because it's like you get to make it whatever the hell you want. Yeah, it's fun, Okay. So they had chemistry. No, it's never your fault. Right. Speaking of something that had many faults, we'll jump to my first ship. I had to think about this and then I was like, this actually was my first ship, but I have to explain the whole thing because
it's. Anyway, so if you've ever seen Sailor Moon, cuz I used to watch that this is like a middle school for me. I watched Sailor Moon and in it two of the outer planet, Sailor Scouts, Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune. I was like. I I kind of, I'm feeling these too because one of them is like more like a mask presenting woman which mask representation for women is so like severely lacking.
And this isn't like an anime forum coming from like Japan and so like the O G's in Japan and then in America I got like the dubbed version and I need to point that out because there's probably problematic shit that Brie is smiling. So I maybe you know about this. Yeah, okay. So I have to get into this if you're unaware.
So anyway, so you have Cilia Uranus who's like mask presenting woman and then you have Cilia up to who's more like fem and like they crazy chemistry and do things like ballroom dance together and like go on dates and all this stuff and I'm like, I'm feeling this ship. The and what the fuck that Marie is talking about is because in the Japanese version. However, in the American dubbed version, they explain these two characters that they're cousins.
They're dating like they are partners, but in America they're like, we can't have lesbians on the screen and so they made them cousins. Meanwhile, they didn't change any of the content, so they're still like, going out on dates and ballroom dancing and like, how is that better? Because they're promoting incest rather than just letting them be queer. What? Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So they were together. But America. Since America couldn't have the queer.
I America censored it and made it incest, which is somehow OK, yes, because it's just like Ezrea where the teachers and stuff is OK as when it came straight. Having clutch your pearls if it's queer but it's like I was like, but at the time I was watching this I didn't have the Internet. I didn't realize that. But I'm like there's a mystery between these two. Why do you ship like? I want to ship them, but they're
cousins. And then found out that they're actually can't canonically queer in the original Japanese version of this anime. And I was like, I wasn't going crazy. Like these two are very cute together, so I feel validated. And I'm mad at America for making me think they weren't queer when they were. Freaking it out. And just for reference for people, this first came out in Japan in 93. Yeah. Or 92, sorry, 92.
I think I started watching it like late 90s early 2000 is when it came to America. Like at the same time like Pokémon used to be on the TV and things like that. Like the show, like the OG show in America when we got it, but this is some fucked up shit. But honestly I love them And now you can probably hopefully get the real actual like translated version, get the Japanese version and just with America or whatever subtitles you need, you will not be disappointed.
They're really cute. It's a fun show, but these two is actually my OG queer ship because. Yeah, I had them very because it came from, not America. Yeah, it came out in here in 95, yeah, Which was two years before the end run, the ending of the show, just two years before I was born. Super fun. So if you're in anime and you haven't watched the other ones, really fun, iconic people, some cosplay all the time.
Even if you're not into anime, it's it's worth watching because I'm not a huge anime person, but I watch the shit out of that. Love them, love the show. Overall, it's very it's very fun. Are they in it prevalently? Just. No, they show up in later seasons, cuz it's like the it's it's like the original Sailor Scouts are like kind of like it's based off the planet. So it's like the planets that are closest to like Earth and the sun and then these are the outer Sailor Scouts.
They come in and later seasons and like movies and things like that, but. Top tier, top tier, queerness, mass presenting woman like it's just it's all around great. Fuck you America, for making them cousins and not. Thinking it was weird, I'm pretty sure it would make them like best friends or neighbors. It's the stupidest thing I've ever cuz it's like they're way too romantic with each other. It's just they're like insensified.
I fucking hate America anyway. Like, I don't want to rant all day. I guess I love them, but I guess they're like, we let's make them cousins so they have no reason to think that they're together. My God, yeah, exactly. It's the word off the gay. But they're still on screen being romantic, so it doesn't make any money. Do they ever kiss? I think they do in the the Japanese room. So they do cut that out. They cut that out. But like there's watch it and
tell me it's not clear. Like it's very clear. So that was our first our maiden voyages, if you will, into shipping. And so we'll move into just ships in general, starting first with Happy Ships. So the ships didn't tell why is there a skyscraper. Because I couldn't find an island in clip art that I could use for this. So it's just ships that keep on sailing, so they keep coming back to land and they just keep making voyages so happy. Ships not going to the same house? Yeah, exactly.
So I'm going to start this off with. A League of Their Own, because there are many, many, many ships from that show that I could talk about, But I'm choosing to talk about Birdie and Grace because I think they're an important ship that influences other queerness in the show in such a beautiful way. And we had the privilege of talking to Lee, who plays Birdie, about their role. And so they're, if you're not familiar with that couple,
they're kind of like a tertiary. Couple in a league of their own this series. They're in Max Chaplin's storyline so they're the African Americans in in the show like community part. And Birdie is Max's uncle. And so and Birdie is kind of the window for Max into like, living as a queer person kind of out in the open. In the 1940s America, which is crazy, but this character is based on on real people who who really did this. So I think that speaks volumes about the ship and just people
and their resilience. And Bertie is a trans man living outwardly like that and has a wife named Gracie. And they're the fucking cutest. Thing ever and it's just very positive relationship of just queer love that can exist despite an oppressive system and like their relationship influences Max to you know figure out how to live as their as he she they authentic self and so it's a beautiful ship that creates more clearness in the universe and I just.
Absolutely love the two. It's my favorite ship from the show. I know, they're so cute. And pretty such a sharp dresser. It's always crazy. They're just adorable. They're so sweet. Yeah, there's nothing. Nothing. I mean, they just make you feel warm. I feel it's just. Happy. It's just warm. And even in a world of oppression, they make you feel happy and warm.
So much so that they even in the show, create their own queer community where they have like queer parties at their houses and like they foster community and like queer found families and things like that, which is just I, which is a trope that I love. And they're like the instigators, inspiration for all of that. I can't think of a better word of them I had. But like, you know, so the facilitators of that, so they're just such a lovely ship that puts Morganus out in the world
and like that's a ship. I want a captain. Yes. Yeah, all. No, my captain sat. Oh man, I wish I had one to wear for this, but I do not, damn it. You always think of props later and you always think like, can I have one which I find impressive and I love? Do you have one free? Is she going to get one? Because I can't see anything. I don't. No, I don't have one. OK, I'm going to move to the next ship. This just happened to both you mine.
This next ship is my Forever OTP and that's Delphine and Kasima from Orphan Black. I absolutely love the two of them. And again, it's the journey, the destination and Orphan Black was a show starring Tatiana Maslany. It's a master class of acting. If you have seen it. She plays at least 12 different characters in the show and I don't want to spoil what it's about cuz I didn't understand the premise until I watched it and I was like wow.
And it's just her acting is mind boggling and impressive. And I do want to talk about that show one day for a lot of reasons. It's a phenomenal show. But in the show, one of her characters, Kasima, is a scientist, and she runs into like scientist in college who's like a teacher's aide or whatever named Delphine. And they start this relationship based on the fact that they're both really geeky and just love science.
And it's like the first time, like at the time I was like going through or going into like biology as like my college degree. And I was like queer, nerdy, like scientists, Like, why did we ever see this? Because for me the media at the time was like if you're in high school or you're a degenerate because of Hays codes and things like that. So like to see like I this is the first time I ever felt like kind of represented on the screen cuz I was like 2 scientists who were just like
being openly queer. And Delphine is goes on the journey of figuring out she's bisexual, Kaseem is a lesbian and I just love them. Their relationship is very much like lovers, enemies, it's all of the things. But at the end of the day, like their love for each other is like she it's almost an unbreakable bond. And the show continues in like a audio book format where Tatiana reads like her, her lines. And so their story continues like in the aftermath where they're like married and things
like that. And it's just it's a beautiful relationship and I really love it and the show is just phenomenal television show. See. It makes a lot of sense since you're such a. The women and it's women in STEM. Women in STEM, Yeah, like positive queer Rep in STEM. Like that was a rarity for me to see in in like Visual media at the time. For sure, I just saw this show, this. OK, so to be fair, I'm not like a huge shipper of this ship. Like I love that it's there
because go gays. But I just the show in general is just so amazing. And I'm so glad for my friends at the time who, like, forced me to watch it because I'm introduced to all these shows within the past, like, three years. It's a good show, phenomenal show. I'll make them like this anymore. By that I mean they get multiple seasons. Shade. Shade. Fire Shot.
OK, Speaking of multiple seasons and anyway, well, we're on to Caitlin. This OK, so the first one that I put on here is Ava Sharp and Sarah Lance from DC's Legends of Tomorrow and their ship name is Ava Lance. Not so confused with an avalanche. It does look like that when you're just flat reading they are just OK. So this is an example of enemies to lovers because they hate each other for like 1/2 of season
three I believe. And then, sorry, I just thought that their first kiss is like, there's pirates there, yeah. And there's like happening just pirates and then like they get together finally and then they become like Co runners of the ship of this like time travel team. So they're like the moms of the family. Yes. And so they're just they're so cute together. And I didn't know whether or not to put them actually here because like, technically they do end up together. They're married.
I believe Sarah's pregnant with Ava's baby. Biologically, both of us there's because now spoiler, Sarah's a alien part. Alien after. Yeah, it's a whole thing. It's a thing. But they get kidnapped. Not kidnapped, but they get thrown in jail at the end. And then it got cancelled. And it's bullshit, but but the leading up to it, just seeing them together and they had this one episode that was basically them in IKEA. I love that episode. It was my. Favorite episode?
And it's just, it's so domestic. Yeah, because Ava's lost in IKEA and it's her like thing where she can't get out. And it's just like because all their insecurities, they have to fight their insecurities to get out of this IKEA. And also I just did get. I got. Stuck in an IKEA I couldn't figure out how to get out I was like for. So relatable. Yeah. They have to do things like put together furniture together and then.
Pick a mattress and it's like how many years they're going to have to like, commit to this one mattress. And it's just, it's beautifully done and there's a deleted scene of them just putting away dishes and it's just like seeing a relationship like that and. Since their normal lives are so crazy and, like, not normal, and having that episode be more normal and seeing them do things like kind of hopeful, you're like, oh, this could be me one day.
Especially for people who are like maybe just coming out and be like, having to. I know when I was younger, I was like, I can't picture my future with a dude. Like, I'm never going to get married. Then once I came out, I was like, oh, I can see it more now. And so, like seeing that episode, it was just. It was just so beautiful. They're such. Cute. Opposites because you know the whole, the whole crux of it is that Sarah is kind of a player
in her past. So she like go, she's gets girls throughout time, gets whoever dude throughout. Which was very nice to watch. So you had your bisexual rap right there. And so she goes throughout time being like this. Irresistible person to so many other people. And then she finds Ava who is very like a by the book kind of like federal government agent type person and wants this forever type thing and has
doubts that you know. So you get Ava and doubting like wondering if Sarah's ever going to want to settle down and Sarah going do I want to settle down? Like, is is this what I want? So you get that whole fun evolution and they do it. The climax of Witches in the episode, Caitlin talked about with IKEA. The juxtaposition I believe is the word between the two of them is also makes it because they're
just they are so different. Also, if you're ever questioning your sexuality, go watch the birthday episode. Fair enough. Just type in Legends Tomorrow birthday and it'll probably come up. It's really, it's a great scene. Yeah. Oh, and I need to do one shout out for the episode where they're in like Viking like time period Viking time, and they're wearing like, Viking shoes. Sweet Jesus. Viking, Ava. Viking. Ava. That was the episode when Ava basically says that she's gay. Yeah.
And then she's like, I don't really like dudes. And then, yeah, Sarah just gives her this. Look, that's like the first time Sarah's like, oh, really? Because, I mean, she looks hot and all that Viking gear like she's about to shield maid in your ass into. That was the start of something. And then the Cena with where Sarah ends up under the desk, being very mischievous when Ava's boss comes in. That was the wasn't that the birthday? Yep, that was it.
Wow. On that happy birthday note, let's move on to Caitlyn's next ship that she wants to scream about. Please explain dear. OK, so I was I had a feeling that this is coming next, which is why I said start of something new in the last one. So, all right, my current favorite ship is currently Maddox and Ashlyn from High School Musical The Musical The series. Such a long name it really is. But those two are so cute and I just I I just want to talk about
them so bad. So my first note about them was they're so cute. But anyway, so Maddox no Ashlyn in the first two seasons basically dates this guy named Big Red. And he's like called Biggie for short. In season three, they go to camp and that's where Maddox comes in. And Maddox is a full lesbian. Like Knows is comfortable with herself and it's just like so happy to meet everybody. She's gone to camp. It's the most of the kids from the East High because it's the same school.
I didn't. I didn't. OK, side note. The show. Is based in where they filmed High School Musical, but it's the kids who actually go there. So they put on High School Musical as their musical for The fall, and that's why it's called High School Musical the Musical, the series. I needed to explain that, so thank you. So yeah, the first season they do High School Musical. They were going to do High School Musical 2.
The second season they end up doing Beauty and the Beast for other reasons, but that's not relevant right now. But that's why it's called that. So it's based in their school. So those kids come to this camp, and only two of them had come to this camp before, but now they're all musical theater kids and very close. So they came here.
So Maddox meets Ashlyn, and it's not like an instant ship thing, but Ashlyn is still obsessed with Big Red and like writing him every day, and she ends up like hating this other counselor named Val. And Maddox realized, oh, this is the same way. I thought about Madison when we both went to camp here and we ended up dating. But Maddox had already told Ashlyn that something else about herself, and Ashlyn got pissed off because she doesn't want to
be told about herself. She wants to, you know, she's like, I'm just secure. I know myself. You can't tell me who I am. Anyway, I know this is very long winded trying to get everything in here so. Then they have this thing and there's fireworks at at the end of this color war and Ashlyn hugs Val and she's like, oh shit, I'm by. So, like, there's literally
fireworks there. So they realized that this whole thing they're they're doing Frozen the musical as the camp show and this, this is very convoluted if you don't watch the show. So they're filming a documentary throughout this camp, OKOK. So it's a TV show putting on a musical, filming a documentary about the musical, with the kids doing the musical. But it's directed by Corbin Blue only. The documentary is directed by Corbin Blue from High School Musical.
The actual High School Musical. Sorry, it's so confident. It's like the whole show is very meta. So in the documentary, Ashlyn's boyfriend Big Red comes out as by, which is very weird because he doesn't even go to the camp. He's not in it until the last episode of that season. So, and there's this trailer for the documentary, and it makes Ashlyn and Maddox look like they're in love with each other. Because, I mean, they are, but that's they don't know that yet.
And at the end, it's just like Big Red saying hi. I'm Big Red, I'm Ashlyn's boyfriend and I'm bi. There was just like what the hell? So basically by the 4th season, 3/4 of the show is queer. It's amazing for for really, they all should be queer because seriously, the chemistry between every single actor is phenomenal. But. They So season four stop with season three, Season 4, this is more stuff I have to explain first, so you understand.
So they're filming High School Musical 4, the actual series, not this. The movies, High School Musical, they're filming a fourth one of the High School Musical reunion with the actual actors from the High School Musical movies at the place where they shot a High School Musical. So East High. So there's some of the original actors in it. They're sprinkled throughout the show too, but in this season they're filming that movie and then also the kids in this actual show.
Are putting on High School Musical 3 for their spring show, their senior? Well, no, it's the fall. I don't know. It's the last show. So they're going to do High School Musical three and then also film High School Musical four at the same time. Does that make sense? Yes. OK, cool. All right, so Maddox and her brother Jet, who was in the last season as well, doesn't go to their school, but they end up coming transferring to the school. Because of the film.
And they needed a student PA, so Maddox came, but they also needed a Chad for High School Musical 3 because all the ensemble kids went to do the movie and get paid to be extras instead of doing the musical. Got it. I won't get too much into that because that's not necessary, but apparently it is in my head. But anyway, Maddox. Before Maddox even gets there, Ashlyn and her are texting nonstop about their current relationships and giving each
other relationship advice. And yes, because that's going to go great. And then once Maddox shows up, Ashlyn becomes a bumble and idiot and can't figure out how to walk and move her legs. So they're parting for each other the whole time. And. In this photo is the Halloween episode. This photo, for people who are listening is the Halloween episode and they are staring at each other in front of piano.
But before we even get to that scene, my favorite my favorite part of this entire show is when Maddox tries to scare everybody. They flicker the lights and it she looks like she got electrocuted and just falls over. They ask what should we do? Ashlynn screams. Call an ambulance, runs over to Maddox, says I'll give her mouth to mouth, and then she turns everyone as a friend.
Sure, Jan, sure, that is my favorite line of the entire show and I didn't realize it. But when I was preparing for this, I rewatched all their scenes. And there's another time, like later, where the sound board for the musical goes up in like starts sparking and. People start running over and someone goes Maddox, are you okay? Ashlyn goes. Do you need mouth to mouth? But anyway, so they they do end
up together. But I have gripes about this because in this episode, in the the Halloween episode is episode four of the last season. There's 8 episodes in the last season. And they sing. And then in this photo that you see, they almost kiss. And then I think you see it in the behind. But there's this kid with like a pumpkin mask on and he comes through the window right as they're about the freaking kiss because they're lesbian. I mean Ashlyn is by OK, so we
need to make sure that's clear. They're not like lesbians, but the because they're queers. So of course they get interrupted. And then it's still pining the rest of the season, because they're. They're like, don't know if they like each other, but I mean, they're literally about the kiss. Obviously you both like each other, just kiss each other anyway, so they finally get together in the finale. Of course they do. It's a.
TV, you know. Yes. Well, I mean, they confess their feelings for each other and then Ashland goes, so we should just be friends, right. And that he goes, yeah, that's that's exactly. What I was thinking or it's it might have been the other way around by the way. Then they part and then they just come back together, kiss once, freak out in gay panic, and then start kissing each other for, I mean like a good
1520 seconds. They put the camera on a different character who interrupts them, but they don't care. They just keep on kissing. So they could like say like oh this kiss is really loud. We just can't show the whole thing. That's my theory at least. But then that that's it. We get nothing else. We get, we get one scene of them together and. Rude. I mean, so basically they they end up together, but it doesn't count because we don't see it, right? I'm kidding. It does.
And they're so they're just really cute and I just love them together. They're both great actresses. And Julia, who plays Ashlynn, is just my favorite character of the whole shows. And we were going well, I was going to interview her right before the end of strikes. So that's sad. But maybe one day. Thank you for listening to my Ted talk about the show that I could go on forever about, and I really do. So if anybody out there watches the show, please message me.
People to talk to about this I. Really do. Because I know this isn't a show the Ordinary would like. I like musicals. I mean, maybe if you want to watch the first, I don't like the first season that much. I got OK, so my order for this show is 4321. Like, it gets better each season. It also gets queer, you see, right. So. Is there a correlation? There is, but it's it's so good and I love it. And even though it's like a kid show, I don't know. It's great. It's great and I love it.
And they're so cute. I mean, look at them. I mean kids. Also, I'm a sucker for. Someone who can sing and play the piano. Like of course you are. Of course you are I. Didn't like they sing, Yeah, but like Ashlynn is the best character there is. I get a girl with all of her things with Torrids. Doesn't matter. The context doesn't matter what I just. Realized apparently I have a thing for redheads, which I never knew because I I was looking at this and then I
looked over. I'm like, there's us with Jess. And I'm like, when did this happen? Because I never. And then I'm like, oh, wait, I also, there was the Alison Hannigan thing for a little while. Yeah, I'm like, when does that happen? So. Chips are revealing. They really are. But it has to be like dark red hair, apparently, of course, but yeah. All right, Kaden, have you ranted and expressed all of your passion?
No, I don't think that there's enough, but I I have to stop myself because I think you've got been listening to this for like 20 minutes now of my convoluted. If anybody followed my description of this show I I do apologize because I know half of that was random, but the show can be really. Random. It sounds super meta and I I didn't know that it's hilarious. It's it's so much my I just love as a friend mouth to mouth thing ever. All right, continue.
I'll try to compose myself over here in the meantime. Well, may Maddox and Ashlyn keep on sailing off the screens. Speaking of sailing, the person who plays Maddox, his name is Sailor. That's a really weird, of course, because it's meta. It's everything is meta. But let's let's move on to a bunch of ships that keep on sailing, that we have talked about on this show. And we're going to start with just the heart stopper, the
entire show. Because every couple on this show and now that I've read the graphic novels, they all have happy endings and they're all queer and they're all the best. I apologize. I left because I read one of the the ships that see or put up here, but continue, Let's let's shoot. So there's many ships on this show that cover all the letters of the alphabet mafia. So we have Tara and Darcy, who me and Caitlin scream about every time they're on screen. They're the cute lesbian couple
who are just fucking adorable. Of course there's Nick and Charlie, which was a fan favorite. So if you. Hit us up on social media and had Nick and Charlie. Here's your Nick and Charlie moment. They get their own the whole everybody gets their own side. They're they're such a beautiful ship with Nick, who's bisexual, and Charlie, who's gay.
And, you know, the story really follows the two of them and their relationship and their, you know, struggles with mental health and things like that that go beyond just bromance, which is something the writer Alice Osmond, who's asexual herself, was explicitly trying to deal with this. And it translates really beautifully. We also have L and Tau L's a trans woman, and then Tau, who's
the token heterosexual. But the two of them are like the cutest, like they're the slow burn ship, like the head ship is the slow burn ship. It's like the best, oh. My gosh, I love them so much. But they're the two idiots that take forever to realize they like each other, but like they've been friends forever. So it's like childhood friend to like lovers kind of deal. And they're just the fucking cutest. And then we have our ace king, Isaac. And his romance with reading.
So I think in books a great ship and that's a ship that goes on forever. And his journey to figure out his identity and his kind of sexuality happens in season 2 primarily, which we will have. It's not available now, but we will be getting into that very soon with them. But they're all of these relationships are very like heartwarming, hence like heart stopper and like really well done, really well thoughtful. They're authentic.
You know it was written by a queer person and just you have every color of the rainbow in in this show and it's just all of them have happy end. There's more ships that happen in season 2 that I couldn't fit them all on a freaking slide. Like it just keeps getting gayer. This show, it's so great. What is the new character's name? Zahar Sahara Yeah, yeah, I didn't. I didn't put. I didn't put them on the screen because we haven't talked about them yet. I know, but like I ship it, okay
continue. So do I. Yeah, I definitely ship the two of them. And then the teachers and everybody, they're all queer. It's very all queer, all of them. I love the photo that you picked of Isaac. He's. So happy with this book, Isaac with his books and also Isaac has wonderful taste in books like his queer book Rex on Point. As a reader, I love it. And yeah, so I love them. Can't forget the Ace Prep. And romance can mean more than just a person. Romance can be with a thing, an
object, an idea, whatever. And for Isaac, it's reading and literary work and I love that. So yeah, I love them. And shout out to everybody who's big Nick and Charlie fan. They're absolutely freaking adorable. Another ship or ships that we've talked about on the show. We've done episodes about Glee and like I think we all have opinions about Glee. So we have Britney and Santana and then Curtin Blaine who like Brief had a said with Buffy.
It's like this was like prime time television show shown around the world to these queers are very important for a lot of people that were watching at the time because we just didn't see Rep like these guys at all. So they were always, always hold a special place in my heart for just being on air, pretend it was the best. They were the best. I love them so much because they're they're the friends, I guess. Friends to lovers. It's kind of their trajectory, yeah.
Yeah, and and they had like a good, friendly, casual lovers to lovers. Yeah, I guess that's kind of, I don't wear that one. But they were a good, like, complimentary type of relationship where they they were just very supportive of each other. Always. That made them really special. And like Curt and Blaine were kind of like that as well. So despite Glee's problematic shit, these were these were some good old ships back in the day. Except that of a wedding.
Yeah, the dual wedding at the end was just weird, but it's like we're saving time I guess, by doing this. What's up with dual weddings? I. Don't know. I hate dual weddings. Yeah, me too. Why is it always with queer? Why do the queers have to share wedding day? I don't know. It doesn't make any the art verse. It was 2 straights but I still. Hated it. I still hate it. I guess it's the same time all. Right. So to them they also had happy endings at the end.
Spoiler cuz they get married. And then, last but certainly not least, is Laura and Carmela from Carmela, the web series Cohombre. I mean, what do you what do you just look at them Look. Adorable, adorable journalist girl. Super broody, sarcastic vampire girl. That's the the, the combo, they're wonderful. There was just like speaking like I think it was, it was like what would you call it? Victim to to Victim to crush to lovers. It's like prey and predator. Yeah, Predator puppy dog crush.
Because if you haven't seen it, go watch this web series. You can just, like, watch it really quick and then watch the movie. I love the. Movie. Yeah, movie's great. But you've got Carmelo, who's a very it's based on a very old piece of literature called. Carmela And anyway don't. I don't know if many people would read that. I have, but it it's not like the series. So basically Carmela's whole goal is to get Laura and and help her mother sacrifice Laura to this giant God, this God,
basically. So that's what she's been doing for hundreds of years. Getting girls and stealing them away to be sacrificed to a God. But this? She falls in love with Laura and wackiness ensues. And they do end up together forever. They do I really need to finish the show. It's so good. And the movie is like the movie's almost stand alone, like it's fucking amazing. And you have. You could definitely watch the movie without seeing the series, I think.
Yeah, for sure. And the movie, and the movie is great too. If you don't know anything, they start off together immediately in this movie and like, stay together. But you also have an actress in there who's in another ship. Later we're going to talk about who's Dominique Provichosli I think is how you see her last name. I'm sorry I butchered that who plays Waverly ERP from Winona ERP. And she's really fun in there too, to see all like the these,
like actresses working together. They they sorry, sorry, sorry. I apologize At the time that stuff wasn't yeah wasn't the scenario that they were in and all of the actors are are really phenomenal and it's just a fun movie. It's like watching Halloween honestly like takes place in a haunted house. Like it's like a good Halloween
movie. I don't think the movie itself, Maybe we should watch that and put it on our Patreon for Halloween. Hey, I mean, we could, we could put it on probably YouTube. I don't know that it's a strike. Oh. Movie because. It was like an indie movie. Yeah, you know that. We have talked about it. We talked about it briefly when we did our Carmela episode and just it's fun, it's free. It's all. I mean the not the movie, I don't think, but the web series itself is.
On YouTube, On YouTube. Yeah, great. Classic never gets old. Season three, when they're they're just, I was going to say this Season 3, they're trapped in a library. They are. And it's a haunted library. A sentient haunted library. Yeah, it just throws a lot of stuff at them. And yes, it's so the show is just it's funny, It's cute. It's hot. Because there's their chemistry Is bananas too show like a bottle show like, where the whole season takes place in one. Yes, exactly.
Because it's low budget. It's low budget. So they literally have it's, it's from the from the perspective of a webcam. So Laura's webcam, Because she's documenting the process. Because she's a journalism student. So it's from her webcam. So she's like talking to the web. She's like talking to. She has like a show that she puts up that's like a news thing for the all the kids on people on campus to know what's going on in the big war with the Dean
slash evil vampire lady. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The cousin Maddie. Oh. No, no, no. I mean like the. Oh, got it. Never mind. So. There's a lot. Camilla's mom. Camilla's mom. Yeah. Anyway, super fun. And then if you really like these actresses, they were in a movie together called Almost Adults, which was done by the creators of the web series or the web channel Gay Women's Channel, who are fucking hilarious. I love them. Yeah, that was like the first people I watched when I came out.
Me too. Stuff. I love them. They're hilarious. But they were, they play friends like best friends in that. Show or the movie, but their their chemistry together is so great. I love these actors, we could talk about them all day. Also we have for many hours. So yeah, check out that episode if you want to reminisce on Carmilla. And just check out Carmilla in general. Natasha Naglavantis, Sorry. Lover, lover, lover. I'll tell you the last name I could never figure out how to. Say it.
Yeah. All right. Well, that concludes our. Capture ships, happy ships. I think before we move into the tragic ships, platonic ships, crack ships and our fan ships submitted by our fans, I think we should end the episode here. I think that's a good idea. All right. And the ships can go on and on and on and they bring out the passion and everyone. So we will continue this and get into something. Really. My favorite ships are all sad as fuck. And the crack ships, I love
crack ships. So like, we have plenty more. So if you've heard some of your ships that you've submitted so far, thank you for submitting them. We totally agree with everything you sent us. We appreciate your insight into what you like in a ship. We will continue this and go on to the rest of the journey with ships. And until next time, continue hydrating for lesbian Jesus and gang it up all over the place. Yeah, bye. And with that, we've been big
gay energy. If you like this episode, check out all our other episodes on whatever you're using to listen right now. If you're listening on Apple, we'd really appreciate it if you loved us a review. No matter how brief, it helps us get into Apple's algorithm to reach a wider audience. Please feel free to reach out to us. We would love to hear from you about everything and anything you can. Find us on all the social medias at Big Gay Energy Pod or e-mail us at Big Gay Energy [email protected].
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