Hello and welcome to Big Gay energy. I'm Bree. I'm Fiora and I'm Caitlin come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media representation matters. And we're here to talk about it. Hello everyone. Welcome to this month's big gay book club. Before we begin, we want to thank our November supporters, Kathleen has continued their monthly donation and we're very appreciative of it.
And Sandy has also made a generous yearly contribution to us. We love you all not expected, but greatly appreciated. All right, so for this book club, we are going to do things a little differently. Instead of focusing on one book, we are going to discuss a Resurgence of queer censorship in the form of banned books. This is a highly controversial topic, that has been all over the media and directly impacts the lgbtq+ community. And we also have a special guest joining us today.
Speaking of that special guests, you may recognize her from a previous episode, but if not, that's cool because it's Alexa, who is a reference librarian and a Young Adult Services librarian. So, she's got some expertise in this. Talk a little bit at that. Yeah, thank you for having me again. Of course, we are so grateful for you to join us in. So happy to see you again. Great to be back on here.
Great to see all of you and I'm excited to talk about this because it's it's something that's very nice. I feel very strongly about so yeah. Apparently I didn't realize how strongly I felt about it until we like brought it up slightly and then I would start going off on Rants and yeah it's very random. Okay. Yeah for sure we can't wait to hear what you have to say as someone who experiences this
firsthand. All right, so first we're going to talk about little book ban is just so we're all aware of the definition of it. So pain. America defines a schoolbook band as any action taken against a book based on its content and as a result of parent or Community challenges administrative decisions or in response to direct or threatened action by lawmakers or the other
government officials. This is a very long definition that leads to a previously accessible book being either completely From availability to students or where access to a book is restricted or diminished. It's basically people just can't read the book. There's this graphic, I'll put it on the screen but no surprise. Texas has the most and books from July 20 21, 22, June 2020, 27. Yeah, go ahead. It's gonna say that I'm shocked and kind of impressive. Louisiana, go California with
zero. Yeah I see, Anna has zero and Hawaii and And Alabama, apparently Florida. Like there's, there's definitely some states on here that I'm like, really. They have zero. Banned books thing. I have time for this. Wow. So think it may be a case of the population demographics, as well. Yeah. I'm upset with my state. Yep. Now, what the hell did you say Nia? Actually one of the school districts, I lived in band, one of the books that were talking about. I believe it was Heather has two
mommies probably. Yeah, I believe is that one and I was like we're literally in a blue County. I mean, well what happens is people from other counties come in to like sit and School Board things and then fuck shit up for everybody else. Like it's not the people necessarily in that county or it's like Rogue people with too much free time, like that's part of the problem. Like, some people feel so strongly about this thing, that Riles them up, that they just want to censor stuff for
everybody else. Like, Yeah, so it's like not a reflection of the people that live there necessarily, it's just the minority. That's just riled up by this trying to erase things. They don't like because if I don't see it, it doesn't exist. Like we've talked about this before in other topics, but lays the real version of like that happening in real time. So you like 1,000, banned books in Texas. Now, suddenly, I like the Resurgence thing that's been happening for the past year
because this is the new skate. Goat Topic in America to like, make scared people, angry, and feel like they're making a change in the world by just like erasing people. They don't like, just let you get back around a video games.
Yeah. And like the thing about the Banning of the books, it's not that like nobody can read it, what they're really doing is they're removing public accessibility in America from the book is like you could still buy the book on Amazon, but like if you don't have the money to buy it, your access is now limited. So that's really what they're doing. They're limiting access to books Yeah. And like and like putting a firewall or pay wall to knowledge and like representation in our case
fascism. Hey, what's, what I said is there anything? I don't know if you have this open in front of you, but is there anything on this map that surprises? You not particularly, what interests me about the map is that this? It's a map of bands, right? So, it does not even reflect how many books are. Challenged because what you see a lot more than Banning books. Is people lodging complaints against them attempting to get them off shelves and it doesn't
always work. Obviously we can see that. There's a surprising number of states on the map that have zero bands, which is awesome. But to theorist point about people, coming into communities for outside of them to protest, we actually had something along those lines happen in my community for context. I live in a very, very liberal. Malaria and I live in a very, very queer subset of that.
Very liberal area and a couple months ago, we had far right protesters show up to a drag queen story time and they were not members of the community. I hate ylenne Bustin to that Community. Just like you were saying just because they want to get riled up about something somewhere else. So I definitely think there's a lot of Truth to that. You did different hobby. The problem is they don't have, they're upset with their lives.
That's the problem. The problem is like, nobody is getting to the root of why everybody's upset. We're just like, they just redirect their people, the far-right extremists / terrorists. They just like it direct them at other people. They're like, well, go hate them. They're worse than you. And then like, you direct your feelings at somebody else and tearing them down, but it doesn't solve the problem that your life has problems, like you're just causing other problems.
I swear, like, that's what this all really is. And it sucks because like are safe spaces, like that are getting invaded by these people that have nothing to do. Like, how is that affecting you at all? You don't even live there. It's just ridiculous. And so like we're suffering because they're upset and they're redirecting their feelings at us is what's happening, really? It's fucking stupid.
It's kind of Insidious to because I attended a professional Library conference recently and we had this fantastic speaker come in and he said something that really kind of stuck in my craw. He compared black lives matter to Blue lives matter protests, and he asked the audience, you know, is this the same thing? And we said well no obviously not. And he said one of these groups is trying to overhaul an injustice system. The other one is trying to uphold the status quo.
So I think a lot of these people who object, to books of all the stupid things feel righteously motivated because they see that What they would like to be the status quo is not being upheld, so they feel very Vindicated. They feel very empowered. They feel like they are in pursuit of a righteous goal and that's where Anna scary. Yeah, totally, it's that again like I can justify doing horrible things because I have the moral High Ground. That's exactly what that's well
said. That's so true and Texas. The least moral place on Earth as by this map over 1,000 books, like up to 1,000 books that have been banned. I can't even imagine the workload of like the challenging process and taxes. Those people must be exhausted. You're like this shit again. I just want to break Florida off. Yeah. Hang in there with it up to 750 bands, part of disgusting. It's so corrupt, and ridiculous. Florida might have been where somebody actually, I don't remember the details.
I should have looked this up prior to, but there was a politician or a local loudmouth or somebody who audited the entire contents of a school library, may be assessed value for this and slate. Waited for, you know, put forth for consideration for removal anything that had any anti like pro-lgbt anti-police, anything, anything he didn't personally agree with me like, yeah, exactly. It's ridiculous. You're muted when you're muted Stupid Dogs. There we go.
Hey, they can't read. That's why I read to them at night. I know. They're trying, they're angry because they're like, weak sense. That Caitlin's angry. But we don't know what we're angry about. So it's like the mob people. They're like, we're just gonna be angry bark bark. She's really upset about book. Banning NG the things are sensing. Fiora's Anger from Lake. Thanks Bristol. She says you're welcome. The don't say gay Bill definitely did not help any of this hike.
Made it even more popular. To be a day are designed to do exactly this. Now, those people are distracted by this social thing. That's not really a thing. They're making it a thing. It just distracts people and it's just ridiculous. It is. It's I like book Banning is nothing new. It's just like this isn't a Renaissance. It's a new wave of book. Banning targeting A specific group of people or like things conservatives.
Don't like which I mean as always been a thing like oryx and crake has been like just like a literary book that has nothing to do with any of that. It's just challenging society and they're just like, let's ban it because it has this one. Quote, unquote, pornography seen in it, which isn't it's meant to demonstrate bystander effect. And like I saw a Tick-Tock of this girl, who is like at her school board at like student
explaining this. And she's like, the people that ban, those book literally are, like, missed the entire point of the book and you're doing the things she was warning you again. So like maybe read the book before you ban it because of one section of like kotoko what you think is pornography, but doesn't and don't just go in and read the one section of the book and say, oh my God, you have to
have the complete context. And I know that people don't want to To actually go in and read things because even in retail I had that experience where no one would actually even read a sign that had three sentences on it. So, Say it's none of your damn. Like, this is not something you should be doing. They're way better uses of your time. Stop reading stuff out of context, and throwing your own agenda onto it, dressing it up, however you want. And so you're missing the, it's
like you're simplifying. An art to the point that you can use it as a weapon. And that makes me want to vomit a little bit, but hey, whatever. I think a lot of the time to the taking things out of context is intentional because something that I've noticed with this new wave of book bands and challenges that we've been seeing in the past year or so, is that what people really just want?
And I'm sure I'll talk about this later because I know you guys have some questions for me about my experiences but people want The mob to get angry and not to think too hard about it back in April, the graphic novel mouse was band as well. I'm sure, we all remember that. Yes.
Now, cliff and, and one of the reasons it was given has to do with a single section of the book where there's nothing pornographic visible on the page, where the main characters, father, based on the author's real-life father, of course, refers to when he lost his virginity. You don't see anything related to that. You just hear him talk about it, but these people are sparks.
They know that if they say, you know, there's sex in this book, The Father talks about this, then people will get riled up and they won't think critically about any of it, really. Accurate. I love how we've only gotten to the first graphic and we're already just Off to the Races. It's a personal topic before we get into the content of these books, I want to first like go over like the overall numbers
from the past year of banning. So there have been two thousand, five hundred, thirty two instances of individual individual Books being banned affecting 1648 unique book titles by 1261 different authors, 290 illustrators and 18 translators. A lot of books and people that got affected. Yeah. I mean, could you imagine like, writing a book that you wrote to benefit Society, taking all that time? And then having people just be like, oh, that's a gross book.
That's terrible. People shouldn't read that. no, only in a very small microcosm because of reviews that have been posted about Book series that I wrote co-wrote. And even in, that was all being we even got comments about this being inappropriate and not, you know, this is just shouldn't exist because it's toxic and stuff. And I'm like, the reason it exists is because these toxic relationships exist and that's what the whole point is.
People, you can't just hide things and But yeah, so it's really, it's really frustrating and I can't imagine authors who have books out there that are for, you know, children in that situation just saying no, you don't understand what I'm trying to do. Obviously you're just there, just swept up in it and it's super unfortunate. I mean, the other thing, the other thing too, it's not that people are really because a lot of these politicians aren't they don't give a shit about the book.
They're doing it to rile people up, like I said. And so like, I was reading, I was researching one of the banned books and basically the author was talking about it and she's like, it's really weird to see a politician using my book like this, like just using it to like, piss people off.
So it's like it's one thing to like, have the people who genuinely misunderstand the book, I just hate it because of that one little section like in Mouse, but it's a whole nother thing to know that your work is being used as a pawn for this agenda that goes against everything you were trying to accomplish. Like, that's gotta hurt, really
bad. The slightly positive side of all that is. You do have like libraries like the one where I work for instance, when genderqueer by mayakoba, they started coming under Fire. Our director like pulled me and the other member of my department and it was like, do we have this book and we didn't and he's like, why don't we have this book order? This book immediately so he doesn't know, that's awesome. Just to bring a little levity to the whole.
You know, sometimes this does have the opposite effect where it gets more attention and people want to read it more. Totally. That is definitely happy to be at like, oh, I've never heard of this book by is it there's a lot of books. I didn't hear of. And I was looking at them and think there's so many children's books that could be beneficial for people to learn and I wouldn't have known about if they didn't get back.
Yeah, so thanks, don't forget. Every Heisman Which is my them to start giving them out to children. But the graphic that really pissed. Me off is our next one, subject matter of Banda content. And I don't know why this surprised me but it did. so 41% of band content, had lgbtq themes, protagonist or Herman Romina dominant dominant, secondary characters, So basically we're just being erased. Oh and then 40% is antagonists of color which is worse in my opinion. I do think.
Yeah. That's ridiculous. Like, fuck all the way off the tools and be She's going to punch me. No, not, you do nothing? No. I just want to punch the graphic right now. No, it's just like I have a lot to say, I just don't know what to say, how to say it because I'm so angry. And I'm at the point where I just like I have no words, which is not good for this episode, but I have the emotions though and it's just, I don't I don't understand. Why people think that this has
to be banned? I-i've been waiting to tell this story. I went to Catholic school. Early Elementary, I believe they showed us the movie passions of Christ. Yep. Okay. Now picture of 28, scarred little children like screaming when they put the crown of thorns on top of his head and blood is dripping down his face. We were literally had her blankets up like this because we were terrified. I think you see the nails get put in, is it? I'm like why is that okay?
In America violence is fine but it was just fine. But anything with color and queer. People are dangerous like that. That's why these people are at like, literally. That's where they're at, though. Still shut off. Something for their kids to watch if there's queer stuff in it. But if there's blatant violence, that's fine. Let's watch that that. Yeah, exactly. That's where we're at. These are the people we're dealing with. It's ridiculous. I actually had a, this has nothing to do.
Ooh, with lgbtq issues specifically. But I had a parent come into my library. Her son is 15 and she started ranting and raving to me about he loves Marvel movies is his thing, she started ranting and raving to me about the eternals movie and about how there's a sex scene in it and she's like, I'm talking with a little bit of violence but when I saw that 16, I was like turn it off now. I'm like yeah, like this is like you said, this is the world we
live in watching. Somebody's head get Topped off, that's fine. But watching AP biology, biology is bad. No Marvel movie to like how graphic could it have been? I understand right. Really just kissing. There is no sexy and nope. People, especially young people are ready for things at different times, like, okay? Like a sex scene. This might be too much for a 15 year old but You're not having that discussion. You're saying this is bad so it's so it's done. So right.
And then the kids like wall, now I need to learn more about those because you're Banning me for of it. Exactly. So now I'm gonna go over to Tim, he's house and watch it because his parents don't have child restrictions on the Netflix or the Disney plus, it's like okay. So the thing that pisses me off the most is that parents Want to, like, shelter kids from all of this stuff that happens in life, where they could be using it to teach them, like, use it.
Like, I don't even care what your views are, but explain it, use it as a conversation, not just heat them off from because then when later in life, they're going to be like, well, what the heck is happening? And I'm so angry, I feel like we've talked about this in another episode, maybe the coming out stuff, but it's Comfort, it's Comfort. The parents are uncomfortable by this because they don't understand it and remember, parents in those kind of
structures like that. I'm the authority figure. What I say is correct, if they don't understand something, and they don't want to, and they don't want to explain it, it's easier to just say stay away from it. It's evil just like be simple. It's evil, it's bad. No for you verse because they're uncomfortable and they don't know how to explain it or want to Too. So it's like the parents come. It's really.
This is like all of these challenged books are challenged by parents who feel uncomfortable by the Materia. It's not the kids, it's the parents who are uncomfortable and using their emotions to, like, dictate what they're going to do. And I like, well, if I'm uncomfortable there and comfortable but like the kids don't care. It's the parents over reacting to their own emotions that they don't want to deal with their just like, I don't want to feel uncomfortable anymore.
Just hide it. Hide it, hide it. That's, this is like, when parents get, uh, Like get pissed off like over like adult jokes and like kids stuff those drugs are going over the kids heads like they're not going to understand and if they do ask a question about it, explain it in a child friendly way my parents. But that's work Kaitlyn, right? That's what I'm saying. That makes them uncomfortable and they don't want to do that. So they just ban.
Yeah. Because the other categories are sexual content titles with issues of race and racism. Deals with themes of Rights and activism biography autobiography or Memoir and stories with religious minorities. So while the big bed that's like Alexa said, it's all the stuff that challenges the status quo, or what should be the status quo. According to the Medieval ages that these people are obsessed with, you know, when we were dying of like, play Crusades. Yeah. There's a colonel. Sorry.
Go ahead. Now he'll Crusades is perfect. Example of like cognitive dissonance. It's glorifying violence and a pacifist religion. Yep. That's what we're doing. No, I was going to say there's a YouTube channel that I really like where it's this girl reads with Rachel. It's called she talks about books but she also talks about she had a fundamentalist Christian upbringing and she said something that really stuck with me and one of her videos the other day she was like people don't want you.
People on the far, right and religious extremists. They don't want you to get an education because they want you to be stupid, because if you are stupid, you will vote the way that they want you to vote. And that's I think what it comes down to hear. The one that really stuck out to me was titles with themes of Rights rights and activism. If you don't know, you don't know what you don't know. Then you're more willing to go along with what the mono
narrative. That you're, I think I might have just made that word up, you know. I like that. No, I lick it or inventing words on these questions all the time. I love it. I'm writing that one down. I think I was trying to say monoculture but that's not what I meant. I was talking about narrative Anyway. You Got What I was saying? Yes. And invented a new word. What can't Alexa do? Well, let me go get out there in the question section.
Anyone else have anything to say on this graphic before we move on? But that's all. Great commentary Bridge. Thanks, okay. So they actually get into the books that we have. So our first book is Heather has two mommies by Leslie Newman. This book's the summary is Heather's favorite numbers to. She has two arms, two legs, two pets, and two mommies. When Heather goes to school, for the first time. Someone asks her about her daddy, but Heather doesn't have
a daddy. Then something interesting happens when Heather and her classmates, all draw pictures of their families. Not one drawing is the same Families are the same. So actually watched someone read this with the book on the screen too. So it was I mean, this has been out for a while. So yeah, no, this is credited. As the first lgbtq children's book, I believe. I remember hearing about this back in the day and it's kind of almost at wrote now not a Trope
but a meme. I guess at this point B as a reference, Because now you see it reference and pop culture, Heather has two mommies and it's pretty that that's pretty iconic status. So you know this made some waves and I thought it was pretty rad. So that's good because Kids. Some kids have two mommies. Why shouldn't people know that there's learning nothing bad about it? I mean, and to the point, some kids, you know, have grandparents that take care of them, have a one dad, you know,
it's yeah. What the hell, does it matter and these business me street thing that we talked about in the coming out episode You can hear me. It's going to explode before this is over. This is for children, ages 2 to 7. Just get that out before I super. Really I just it's it's a book, it's just, but again, it it again, challenges The Narrative. That a fan, a traditional family is one Dad. One mom, whereas like in reality families look, completely different.
Like exactly like the Sesame Street thing you were talking about where it's like, some people don't have a dad because they have a single mom. Some people don't have a mom or a dad. Dad because their grandparents raised them. Some people are adopted some people live with their like extended families. Some people have two moms two, dads. And again, it's just it's challenging.
The traditional quote, unquote, traditional strand, family structure, that people are hell-bent on preserving, even though this is literally just saying, hey, this is just reality, like, not everybody has this. And so some people get uncomfortable and so they don't want to see it. That's really what this is. It's not that the book is bad. There's no I think bad in the book, it's just challenging some people's stronghold on what societal rules are, and what gender roles are and all of that
stuff. And so that is why it was challenged. Whereas again, reality is these family structures exist. That's all this book is saying, it's like everybody's family looks different, that's just reality. But some people like I don't want to see that because I don't see that my family but my family does this. No, no, no. So It's coming. People just feeling uncomfortable. That's all it is. I don't know if it exists yet, but I'm waiting for the book.
Two mommies and a daddy. So we're good in the poly land. I know what? Yeah, yeah, no exactly. Well, write it Caitlin. Yeah. All right big, we have lots of branches of big gay energy. Now, big a Publishing Company It's part of the network. It will be made into a TV show well movie first and then the TV show. Sure. Can it can it not star. I can't even remember her name right now. Who is Lindsay Lohan?
Why? Came up with it because we're sitting there like staring at the Netflix thing and she kept popping up. We couldn't remember who she was. Okay. Why does this book banned? And I have Kristen Stewart in it. Let's be real. I actually see aren't going to ask you if you wanted to talk about why it was bad. Oh sure. So this book basically was like it's over 30 years old, this
book. So it's been out for quite some time like you said and it was challenged so many times like in 1993 it was like the most challenged book period. So this book has been challenged since it came out, basically.
It's like this book being Is not really new that's like been this books like Legacy unfortunately and according to the author like she's this was the one I was referring to earlier where she was talking about how like, legislators and politicians were the ones, like, touting up her book as this like big sinful thing and using it for political points.
And she was like, wow, this, I can't believe this is happening to my book and she's basically saying the reason it would get flagged or challenge is because they would connect her book to pedophilia and like all these topics that have Absolutely nothing to do with this book because they're just like, oh gay people pedophiles and it's like how that has nothing to do with this book. This book is just saying families. Look different.
So like you see like the mental leaps, they got to ban this book because they didn't want people to see that gay people exist. That's all it is. And it's just. Yeah, so the poor author, but she's been fighting the good fight for 30 years. In this book, still exists, it's had 10-year anniversary's, like it's been read it.
Shut like for kids mean it's had like a second And yeah, I like she's like no I'm gonna keep fighting for this book and credit to her, like she has been and so this has survived 30 years of people calling at pedophilia when it's absolutely. Not a picture book about families. Kid just has two moms. You never was a carpenter and one of them is a doctor. Come on.
Well, nice. I have a theory about this that again, I'm sure I'll get into later, but with the book bands that we've been seeing in the Resurgence lightly, Lee.
I've seen a lot of that couched in the language of pedophilia and I think it's because the people making the arguments know that, you know, all by itself, like a family with two moms is not hurting anybody, but if they use an inflammatory word and imply that someone is being harmed in a really awful and disgusting way then you get people upset. So it's very Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist here but it's very calculated in some cases. I think it's really really gross.
Oh yeah. And the other thing is that they again because the people doing this are emotional and not thinking rationally, they're also re-appropriating words to mean other things like grooming. They use it to describe lgbtq like queer families and it's like that's not what that word
means at all. But now people associate the buzzword and they're just like grooming grooming grooming grooming and it's like that's not That means, meanwhile, like people in their party are actually grooming children and like it goes over their heads because they don't, they're like, that's not what that word means. That word has something to do with queer people. That's all I know. So, yeah, you're right. It's inflammatory. But kids to keep them angry.
So they don't, they can't, they do, because when you're pissed off Caitlin, like you're saying, I can't come up with words because I'm just emotional right now. I'm angry. That's what's Happening Here. The people are angry. They don't know why. They're angry, really. They're just that I was told to be angry about, this angry about this, and they can't, Think logically when you're angry. Like so yeah, I just it's just constantly pouring gasoline on the fire as well.
This and this be going after 30 years for this poor book like this. It's not an Enchantix. This is that this is something that humans have used since the beginning of humans. Honestly, yeah, yeah. Ignorance and just fear and that's it. And you can get people to do atrocity is when they're not thinking and they're just they're up they're fearful and it's just Isn't fear-mongering and using inflammatory words, like you said. Bye. Caitlyn Caitlyn. She can't handle the
inflammatory words. She's in Flames as feet. so, any thoughts on the actual book? It was cool that her parents had two very different and cool jobs. Stuck on that because you had the carpet. I'm like, Carpenter. How do you get gayer than that? No, so she's like, all right, I have to make this realistic. So one of them is like the Home Depot lesbian and the other ones like the realistic. I liked it. That's my thought on the book. You know what a fuck.
We should write that would definitely get fitted in so many places. On a buying trip Catalan hydrate for lesbian Jesus. Yes. Oh yeah. No, they're about must be Hayley. Kiyoko. Yeah. All right, the big question is, should this book be banned? No, no. I mean as a librarian Banning, anything is a violation of the First Amendment because it puts, you know, condition on intellectual Freedom. So I'm going to say no, as well.
Awesome. They really, I'm getting over the head with the like American Library. Association guidelines on intellectual freedom, in library school and basically a walking encyclopedia for the guidelines for intellectual Freedom at this point. It's not, it's not cute. I think it's cool like it. Yeah, yeah I think people that out at dinner parties. I definitely make so many friends that way. Yeah. We love Alexa here at this energy. I love being here. Thank you. Always have you back.
All right, on to our next book which I've known about for years now, I am Jazz written by Jazz Jennings. And this book summary is from the time. She was two years old Jazz knew that she had a girl's brain in a boy's body. She loved pink and dressing up as a mermaid and didn't feel like herself in boys clothing. This confused, her family until they took her to a doctor who said that jazz was transgender and that she was born that way. And this book is for 4 to 8 years old.
This book is basically Jazz's childhood. She wrote from her experience and her feelings from that age. And she does a lot of activism work in the transgender community and I really admire everything that she's done. I've learned a lot just by following her she has a reality show that's in his seventh season I believe on TLC. So They're giving something right?
yeah, I read this one, I liked this book and particularly the way they handled the The process basically of a child like transitioning essentially like where it's just like there's nothing medical happening with these kids. It's just like a mental kind of thing and like living their truth and like they had the kid, like in the doctor's office and the doctor kind of explained it to the parents and it was very like written in a very kid friendly way.
And very, I like, the way she wrote this book, it was it was really fantastic and they have like, jazz is like siblings and kind of like how Treated her pre and post, kind of like accepting her for who she is. But ultimately like the materials very like simply put and I thought it was a really great depiction of like a child at this time.
Kind of going through this and how they explain it and like process it and then the parents to kind of like coming to terms and like supporting their kid and there's a really good story. I liked it a lot. Reading this book to your child is not going to make them trans. I feel like that's what everybody's worried about. No, it just makes them except people. Just saying. Would you like to talk about why it was been sure. So surprise surprise, basically right-wing.
Christian think tanks went after this book and they made a bunch of like their arguments for Banning. This was that it quote spouts a number of false and inaccurate claims and it Miss educates children. What? Essentially amounts to propaganda and mistruths and they write that it by having this book accessible. It would violate the rights of parents. Who feel that such a lesson, undermines their parental right and rigidly just beliefs.
So that's all like legal language for like we don't want to see this. That's all that this really is it's because they don't want to acknowledge trans people exist and then they can feel comfortable. Sure. Because it was just an issue of. I don't want my child to know that trans people exist. They just wouldn't buy the book themselves. I mean, obviously in this case, obviously there are other places that you can encounter a book than in your house.
But no it's we don't want to that's not what it is. Yeah. Because like again, this is what they're trying to ban it at libraries. So if these parents are like, hey, this book violates, my religious belief then don't read the book. Why are you, why are you making it so that other parents than are having their rights to read it violated by your rights and
your religion? Because again it's that whole thing of like not acknowledging that other people are different from me. And so it's like your censoring other people who leave the same things that you do, because Everybody. Again like again, this is just a book about one child's experience and the way they're just like, well, that's false and inaccurate. It's like Miss educating children. It's an autobiography. Like, this is one person's experience. How are you to say that?
That's like Miss educating people. When it's like, this was my literal experience. I also think that parents sometimes, see their children as an extension of themselves and so that's an easy way for them to project their wants and needs onto their child and say, well, I don't want this like you said earlier and that means my kid
doesn't want this. And the kit is like and other kids can't have that like other kids me off is like this because it's not hearing you books available to other parents as well though. Like my teacher in college I had a child and she would always take out books to explain topics to her child that he was maybe having trouble in school and so, you're taking these books, that could help them have a conversation for the parents who want to Just because you don't
want anybody to think that way. Yep. And then we all get ignorant so it spreads that's that's the Oculus part of the Insidious part rather. The hypocrisy of it. These are the same people that are saying Free Speech, Free Speech. Oh yeah. Exactly Free Speech.
Free Speech while they're actively undermining Free Speech. Yeah, there's actually a clip from There's actually clip of Trevor Noah explaining this in using the whole Elon Musk Twitter thing of free speech and I think I just feel like he explained it really well and I wish I had written down what he said, but he just was saying, it's free speech. As long as it's the speech that I like So as long as I like it, we're not we don't have a
problem. But once we get into the area where It challenges, my ignorance. We're fucking done. Sewing the term, can flip the term. Freedom has, been conflated with
stuff. I like, in general, in America, there's a saying in the Library community, a good library has something in it to offend everybody and that's true but we used to I think we got rid of it recently because it hadn't been checked out in years, but we used to have a book Look in our teen section that was written by one of those ex-gay movement people. It was basically like I pray to me the gay and here's how you can too. And every time I saw it pissed me off so bad.
I was like, I don't want it here. I don't want it where my impressionable kids can get a hold of it. I just think this is awful but I'm also not on Twitter. Yelling that this book needs to be removed from the library, shelves, immediately, I did was removed, but only because it hadn't circulated in, like, five years. Might have been three of my time
and five. Let's welcome, sorry to see it go, but I understand that it had as much right to be there as anything else great with it completely, which is where I differ from the people who do the book Bannings, Right.
I feel like also people think that art is supposed to make you comfortable and it's really not like I think we've lost the ability to critically think through ART And like it's supposed to challenge what you believe, that's the whole point of Art. And so, yeah, it just people don't want to be uncomfortable and it's just the lengths. They'll go through in like censoring things that make them uncomfortable from other people who enjoy. It is. Just yeah.
It's very upsetting. And that's unfortunately, what is happening here in Sedona exercise their brains? Well now he's take time to actually, Get outside of your daily constraints. And that's that's a challenge for a lot of people. I get it, it's hard because you everybody has a job and responsibilities and all this stuff. And if you've got kids, that's a whole nother job right there. But you're not doing your kids, any good by just staying in your little box and, and locking them
in there with you. Yep. It's also not about like forcing these books on kids. It's about taking away from the parents who want their kids to have access to it. Yeah I feel like that's the biggest issue here. I want to read this paragraph that I found about. I am just real quick because it really pissed me off. Not like, nothing else is pissed. Me off in this episode Whoo, I'm just going to need to breathe after this freaking episode,
man. All right in 2017, I am Jazz was challenged at Rockland Academy. Gateway in California after the book was read aloud in a Kindergarten class. The school has a policy in which students can bring in books from home, to be read aloud, the student in the class was undergoing gender transition and she brought in the copy of I am Jazz. That was read to the class, several parents, subsequently, Umbra, move their children from
this. School and called for a policy that allowed them to keep their children from sharing a classroom transgender student. That's bullshit. Yes, it is, but if you don't want your kid around something, you're right is to remove them from that, but you can't restrict anyone elses. Labor ability to have their kids in a school. That's absolutely ludicrous. So I mean it's a detriment to your child to take them out of a situation where they have more diversity, but by all means that
you're right. Just don't try to impose that on other people. GTFO how does it hurt them? If there's a student that's transgender in their class, they're all just trying to learn it showing them that they exist. In the whole thing, is censorship and uncomfortability. And the parent has conflated transgender with grooming with pedophilia philia. And that's where this all goes. Like, inherently nothing is harmful, but they have been brainwashed. Slashed indoctrinated to believe
all these truth. Like, things that like trans people are devils and like, all this stuff, and it's just, it's just fear. That's all it is. It's just fear. Here it's it's the bathroom bills. The same thing. My kid, it has to go to the bathroom with a trans kid. Then they're obviously going to catch the trans or get molested.
Yeah. These are just distraction topics from the fact that like our country is not actually thriving and so we just they just get people angry about social issues that don't actually impact it literally anything. So that they feel like they're morally Superior and that their it gives them Identity and like they're like, hey well we're you know the anti-trans Warriors and like, builds a culture where we have no culture, essentially says gives. It's also like look what my left
hand is doing well. My right hand is like taking away your other rights so hey that's a distraction top, top tactic. Yeah, so and we're just weird the community that's on the part of the brunt, end of that at the moment. So yeah, that's is a fun time. America sucks. Yes, for us. If we were, you know, affluent Whiteman. This white man, we'd be fucking living the dream life. In in relative, you know, beginning. Yep. So end no no no. All right well so fast I question nothing should be
banned. Yes read it and read it and all the schools. Okay. Bristol. What's the next book? Caitlin? The next book is a chapter book called better Nate than ever. It's for 9 to 13 year olds in grades, 4 through 8. And this is the summary. Nate Foster has Big Dreams his whole life. He's wanted to star in a Broadway show Peck he'd settle for seeing a Broadway show. But how is Nate supposed to make his dreams come true when he's suckin Jank org, Pennsylvania?
When no one except his best pal, Libby appreciates a good show. Tune with Libby. Help Nate plans a daring overnight Escape to New York. There's an open casting call for etu musical. And Nate knows this could be the difference between small town blues, and big-time stardom. I picked this book. Well, one because it's musical theater. And that, that was my childhood and two because it's not innately gay, like, it's know they, this is, that's why it was banned But there's like three
sentences that address that. I think, well, I okay. So I think there's other reasons I got banned but I think that's the most inflammatory. So in the book basically this kid States multiple times. Well like he's bullied first of all because he likes musical theater which I don't understand why we bully boys for this because it's like there are men stars on Broadway like this is an actual job. I don't understand why people lie men.
It's like you need men. Men in these Productions, where there's mail carrier for men, put your children, put your children and feed her. It seems like it's so stupid. Like this is an actual job, like, it's so dumb to bully people for a job. But I know he gets bullied because he he's compared to his brother who's essentially like the typical male where he's the big sports star in this and that his dad is very dismissive of him. His parents are dismissive of him because he's different.
He's like, I like I would prefer to sing and dance and like be an actor. That's what I I want to do so, of course, he's bullied for that, and there's a lot of bullying where they call him like inflammatory queer terms, like the f word, that means a bundle of sticks, and he's constantly being called like gay in a derogatory way. And the kid in his monologue is like, I don't even know what I am. Like, I just like show tunes. Like, he just says that over and over and he's like, I don't
know. I just like, I'm 12, I'm 1313. I just like, I just want to be an actor. Like why is that so weird? But I think part of why this is band like the demographic of people quote, unquote, Banning books, it's because, okay, here's part of that narrative. This is a kid who's trying to escape a small town with no opportunities to go to a big city. So that's like liberal indoctrination.
There's a scene in the book where essentially him and his brother go to Bible camp and like he's like, oh, I'm so
excited. I get to bond with my brother who's like, you know, doing his own thing and we get to hang out and he goes through the, I love this part of a, he basically goes through this like accepting Jesus in the Bible camp and he's Like, I was doing it because my brother was really into it, and I was like, I wanted to fit in, but like, and I accepted, I did it. I got on the stage and I was like, I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and all the stuff
and then like immediately after some kid calls him, an f word and then beats him up and he's like, he has this moment where he's like, I don't understand like I accepted God who supposed to protect me and God did not protect me. I still got, I'm still not one of them even when I'm playing their game. Basically, and he was so ashamed that I'm like the way back. He's like I stopped I lost my
faith basically. Like so, I think part of that is like, showing that religious trauma that queer people go through. They don't want to see that, that's bad. So, there's like multiple reasons. I think this got banned, but, yeah, there's this scene in the book where, like, he Witnesses,
two, boys kissing. And he said, wow, he's like, looking at these kids who are like, basically, like dancing all together, and he's like, wow, I he's having all this anxiety because he's like, they're too close to other people. Like people are going to beat
them up the way. I got beat up, but nothing ends up happening, because he's in New York where it's like normal and he's like, wow, there's A whole other world where like I can be me potentially which is the message of like Get out of your small town, go to a better place. So like, I think there's a lot of reasons.
These types of parents are tried to ban this book and because the message is ultimately, like be you no matter what just like, find your people, find your place and it's like, nope versus conforming because like he tries to conform in the book and he's like, I can't because I'm different. So, It's very sad. I'm the fun book. Actually, I like, listen, it's like I listened to the audiobook version. We're like the author Tim actually reads it and he yeah. He's very like theatrical
waiting reason. It's a lot of fun. I highly recommend, like the audiobook That's interesting. Maybe I'll check that one out. Yeah, we good. Yeah. So, this book was written by Tim festerly. I believe that's how you say his name, and he's also written and like, produced High School Musical, the musical, the series on Disney plus, and this book was actually turned into a movie is pretty darn good on Disney plus. So, I recommend checking that out. We talked about how.
His parents also treated him differently just because like they knew he was different and right in the beginning of the book literally page. Five, I think this might be the first page but it had stuff ahead. He talks about how he would sing a lot as a child, like an even younger child, but there's no proof of it. There's nobody recorded anything and, but his brother because he was a sports. So all that got recorded and
documented. But anything with him, wasn't because it was musical theater, and no one takes that seriously. Do you wanna? There's also quotes and it's not just that they knew he was different. The parents also like shame him, like they know he's different and like the mom, there's this quote to later where Basically, she's talking to him. I forgot why, but she was saying something like an anecdote about him one time where the neighbor heard like him heard like whaling in the backyard.
I was like, I don't know what this is, like, their neighbors. Like I thought it was a rabid beaver and then she's like the neighbor saw you in the woods just prancing around like you know and then the kid in his head says like a fairy right,
mom. So it's like they have homophobia towards him to and And and the mom is a little like doesn't say it but like implies a lot of things and the dad, you never get his opinion because the dad is so like uninvolved like he's just like he has these quotes with him or he's like are you interested in girls yet? And he's like, no, I'm 13. And he's like, well you'll find the right one, one day.
Like he just like assumes like he's going to be like traditionally masculine and just like ignores his own son. So like Nate has a lot of resentment towards his dad when he's doing the audition for e.t. There's like a part where he has to write down what do you connect with in the story and he basically puts the dad's not around like it's so sad like it's so sad. I have the part that you were talking about the whole thing was my sexuality is off topic.
Well, it says you meeting any nice girls at school. And he said, Dad, I'm 13, can't start too young. That's all you need to know about that. Met Your Mother. When I was your age, I said that's all you need to know about that. And then his father says, I'm praying for you boy. Yeah, that's literally it. For you to be straight. What do you mean? You can't pray the gay away.
I mean, I guess if you bring a priest, Yeah, and it looks like everybody bullies him like he in the beginning says like life is hasn't been easy for me. My first word was mama and then the other babies are teasing me. It was like the second thing, like he's been teased his entire life. The kids call him Navy the lady at school. Like he just gets bullied constantly correct by everybody and his like Saving Grace is his friend Libby who like moved from
somewhere else. So it's like my Caitlin the girl from like another part of the world basically who's more cultured who like introduced him to the thing that he loved. As which is like musical theater and so they, like Bond really well together and have their own like, said of like swear words, which they use, like musical flops as like, their swear words, which is really cute, and their friendship is just very
beautiful. So it's like the message to is like find somebody who understands you and like like kind of like a found family thing or found support system rather, and like his friend like really like, goes out on a limb to like, help him do the audition and all this stuff. And it's just that part of, it's really, really beautiful. In the story. I found the other part you're talking about. They can't let a day go by without putting me through the ringer.
Most recently, they cornered me after school in the gym and told me I couldn't leave a basketball cord until I made three three-pointers in a row. I asked if I could just make one nine pointer and be done with it and Little Bill laughed and said he's not on funny for a gay kid. There's that there's tons of stuff like that and the book where he's just, they just constantly bullied him. Yeah, he says my sexuality, by the way is off topic and unrelated.
I am undecided, I am a freshman at the College of sexuality and I have undecided, My major and frankly don't want to declare anything other than hey jerks. I'm 13. Leave me alone. Macaroni and cheese is still my favorite food. How would I know who I want to kiss? I love that line, too, because that's that's what 13 is like. There's nothing sexual about this. It's like I'm 13, like, I'm just 13. Leave me alone. I want to be an actor. Like that's the whole book.
The people that push sexuality on others or the people that are the straight people that are always asking you, you got a boyfriend. It, you got a girlfriend yet? Yeah. Like the daddy said, he's like you kissing girls yet. Like, there's the sexualizing people do that in kindergarten, like the ants like toddlers. Like so do you have a girlfriend? You have a crush on you. Stop just stop pedophilia.
It's disgusting. There's also another Trend in the book when he first gets to New York and that everything's just going so quickly. And he thinks that New York is so magical and like that's where all the good is. And then once he takes a step back and actually looks around and thinks about it, it says maybe because I don't know to stop moving. So fast might make you realize what an impractical home. New York actually is and I feel like this could be a commentary on.
Like if people actually stopped and thought about why they're upset about things, maybe they'll see that it's really not what they think. And be rational. But they don't because they're everything's just moving so fast and they don't think for themselves. Yeah, it's like expectation vs reality because when he first starts in the book, he basically says that like, New York is like the place where dreams come true, like his dreams.
So then when he gets there, he's like, oh, this is my dream, I'm living my dream and then like takes a breather and it's like, wait, this isn't what I expected. The reality is harsher than like, What I thought. So I like that they added that realism because it's very easy in a children's book to make it Whimsical and Phantom. Like the whole story is crazy because he goes by himself and
somehow navigates. All the stuff was, like, no money as a minor and you're like how is he not being abducted? But like, but he does because it's a children's book, but they add bits of realism in there where he's like, maybe like I wasn't so friendly. Who sold me this stupid outfit, I'm wearing and things like that. Yep. And, you know, anything else about the book overall, very cute book. Good message the breeze in for Banning. This is super weak. It's very age-appropriate like
the kid is 13, egg knowledge. Has I'm 13. I am not sexual. I still like mac and cheese. So like the fact that like Clips were taken from this to ban. It just proves the whole point of everything that we've been talking about data context stuff. I have two things to say about the movie that it was turned into one Lisa Kudrow's in it and I loved, I loved her. She's funny no matter what she said.
Yes. And then he tries to tell them that he has a photographic memory and he comes out, just like at the top, like, projecting, I have a pornographic memory and I It made me laugh and I could see why parents would be upset about a line like that. Because it might not be a conversation. You want to have with the younger child but again but that's so real. Not if ya like when I can't is when we were I think my sister was like I don't know, 9 or 10.
She had a keyboard that she got as a gift and she was. She was no. She was asking for a keyboard for Christmas. And in the picture, she had the key. Board came with a bench and she told my mom, I want the keyboard without the bitch. So it's, it's just, it's so real that he would that would happen. Yeah. No it is because if kids even heard it once like they're going to get that confused or something else. So it's totally normal. I went up to my teacher. My mom told me that something
wasn't feasible for something. So I went up to my English teacher. She was trying to help me with a question and I'm like, well, my mom told me, it wasn't feces. And she's like, what did you say? I just kept Repeating the word and she's like, I don't think, you know what that means. Go look it up in the dictionary. So I looked it up in the dictionary and I was mortified, don't even know where I came up with that word. But yeah, so it's definitely relatable.
It's a good movie. I think people should check it out. The music's great, too. Well I think we can all agree that it's a cute book that doesn't it has no bad anything about it. And once again, they're just using using this book as a way to throw the throw their Conformity out there. So it's also a young male in musical theater. Yeah. And there who are always like oh if you'd answer if you do musical theater, you're automatically gay but, you know, and that was that's always been
something that pissed me off. That's why a lot of kids don't want to do dance or theater. Yep. Yeah, I could go on for a while, but I think. We've rented about the books enough. Even though this is book club, we also want to get to know Alexa, more and about her job and all the crap she goes through. Yeah. Alexa, we touched on it briefly. But what is your job? And in what capacity does the Banning of books affect you?
So I am a, I do both reference Services which is for adults and Young. Young Adult Services which is for kids roughly ages 12 to 18 or 7 to 12th grade, give or take. And I would say that because I do most of my work with that demographic, the capacity to which book bands. Effects me is pretty strong because all of the books that we just talked about were either picture books or middle grade books and Obviously, parents and groups that are against these things, freak the fuck out.
If there is any mention of sex, even alluded to in books, for that demographic, the difference with young adult books, I think is they are at an age where they are stepping into the adult world. So you can't avoid these topics as much. Like the reality of the adult world is that they're going to confront things like racism. Like, Q people like sex. All of those things that were on the infographic bars of reasons, why books get banned.
So I, I don't know that young adult books, come more Under Fire than books, for Middle graders your children do. But I know that there have been a lot in recent years. So, the way it doesn't, it's not as big of a problem where I currently work because like I said, I work in a very liberal area. I am lucky to have an Administration. That is very Pro intellectual Freedom doesn't believe in banning or challenging things
you know. Not that it's generally the library Administration that's doing these things but the way that they deal with the challenges that do come is very, you know, Pro the guidelines that the American Library Association has set forth for intellectual Freedom. So the question was, how does it affect me? I guess it's something that I really feel passionately about. So it's something that I really want to make my kids aware of.
I really want them to know like, hey, don't take this for granted because in other places people want to take these books away from you, and we actually did. So banned books week is usually the last week in September in the United States.
So, I put on this big program where I made like a scavenger hunt, And I highlighted some current books that have been banned throughout the years, like popular titles, they would be familiar with and sort of had them go on a scavenger hunt where they linked the books up to the reason that they were banned and at the end of it, I had this big whiteboard setup and I asked them, you know, right?
Why you think the number one reason that books are banned or challenged in this country is just to make them aware that you know in the Sexual Freedom that we enjoy in our public libraries in this country, really is a gift and there are people that would like to take that away from them. So, and some of them, there's some doozies out there. Like, someone challenged, The Hunger Games somewhere for being anti family. I had once like it's not a book about girlfriend to save her sister.
It was like yes. Yes it is. That is what it's about. You are so correct. So my God, what I remember. You're saying that and just being we have ascended to idiocracy. Yeah. Basically all the books that we did, we read in English class are banned in some form. Challenge Trail. Yeah, we're challenged. A lot of it. Oh, I actually have the picture on my phone. These are some of their responses that they wrote to the question. Why do we think books are banned in challenged?
Keep in mind that these are like, twelve and thirteen-year-olds largely who wrote this because people are scared of what they aren't racist or huh. Let me say, this is a really good. One school officials are old out of touch and senselessly ignorant to social progress. I really love. Yes. So, Yeah, at the kids are.
All right, all right. It's I that's what I love because like the parents in these situations don't realize the kids are watching all of this happen and processing it and being like money is doing you guys are silly. You like me. We're just gonna go read it somewhere else, right? There's a movie on Netflix or I have your, you saved your credit card in Amazon. So Alexa have there been any outrageous things or push backs that have happened to you in your position as librarian?
There are two things that come to mind, one that I was not directly involved with and one that I very much was directly involved with the first was so Library, policy is that children under seven years old? Need to be within Arm's Reach of a parent at all times. They can't just run wild in the library. So we had a parent very irate
parents. It's on the phone because their child had pulled a book off of the new bookshelf, that looked to them like a graphic novel, but it was a graphic novel for adults and had some naked people in it, and some sex in it, and the parent was really upset about this.
And we were kind of like, okay, well, if you had been within Arm's Reach of the kid, we didn't say this because we can't obviously, but if you'd been within Arm's Reach of the kid, you would have seen them take it and could have been like oh that's for grown-ups. Why don't we find you something in your section? Yeah, but then the parents took it a step further and was like, this is disgusting. This doesn't belong in the library at all, and it's like,
Okay, we get that. There's a lot of feelings right now, but this is not a failure of What? This is not a failure of the library. This is a failure of parenting. Dare. I say some. So you know, most libraries have what's called a reconsideration form where, if you're really pissed off about something that they have in their collection, you can fill out a little form that says, I'm pissed off.
Here's why and you submit it to the director and the director sort of cross checks, what they have a problem with, with their own collection development policy, the guidelines that outline That's why we choose books. What books in particular we look to choose, do they have value for this is their Community interest in them?
And you know, generally if it checks out which would have to in order to be purchased in the first place, it does not get removed and I checked out which was that somebody who was running for state government actually came into my library, a couple of times and filmed herself flipping through pages
of an obviously. Just the most incendiary pages of genderqueer was a big one, but we also have a graphic novel about sexual health and education that was written by Erica Mullen. And is a really fantastic. Eric book on sexual health and education in my opinion because
it's extremely inclusive. It's sort of fills in the gaps that most high school sex, ed programs will not so it teaches about things like masturbation but also things like how to have a healthy relationship how to set healthy boundaries in any relationship like sex was not the sole Focus, but you better believe if I could hear her in the back of my teen section, like flipping through saying, this book is teaching children to do. Disgusting things with their
bodies and and yeah, so she thinks that Librarians should be in jail. She brought out the groomer word because you know that they love that word. So that was that was a little more alarming especially because this was someone who was running for a position in state
government did not win. Obviously, because again, this is a highly liberal state that I live in but yeah that really was kind of a wake-up call to the fact that even If you feel like you are in a pretty open and accepting Community, there's people everywhere who are going to espouse these gross opinions because they want to rile people up because if they feel that they will rile people up enough, they'll get elected. That's, that's really what her goal was.
She can give a shit about those books. She gave a shit about getting elected. So, That's why she did that. That is utterly horrifying? Sad. Yeah, she was making these videos and then putting them on her Facebook page and I didn't watch them because I do they were just going to piss me off but a friend of mine who I worked with watch them and he's like yeah, in the background of one of them, you can hear your voice like calling for someone to come back. You up a cameo. I made a cameo.
You can hear her ranting and raving about groomers and And pedophilia. And this is child pornography and me and the background going. Yeah. Hi. Is anybody on the desk right now? Like you put for Alexis being is under siege? Because unfortunately, the guidelines of a library mean that I can't just throw her out because I don't like her, I'd say we mostly jokingly mostly jokingly, but at the same time, I don't think an adult woman. Our policy in the teen area is you're not allowed.
Loud to just pots around there unless you are a teenager and I just really, don't think an unaccompanied adult woman who's throwing words like pedophilia around, should be in there. Yeah, for real, I find it odd that she can't people can just go in there and film stuff when it's like public /, like a public. I don't know. Like, I feel like there should be rules against them to a little dodgy about that for sure, for sure. Well unfortunately that gives her more right to film whatever
she wants, right? Yeah, well I say unfortunately because I mean if you needed film as evidence it would have been, you know, beneficial but right Didn't you go to the adult section or something? The other thing too? Is that people like that? Feel like they're on a righteous cause and if you derail them from it at all, they're like, here's proof. I'm being suppressed.
So you don't want to be like, hey, please get the fuck out of my room with this potentially triggering language because you don't know who is in the room right now, who is really going to be affected by you thrown words like that around, you know? So yeah, it was a bad time. Like it as our Lord and savior one said, long story short. It was a bad time I'd rate for that. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So Banning books has been happening for a long time.
How how do you think it's changed over the years and is it getting more worse or more targeted? You really think it's escalating not necessarily as dramatically as it might seem. Because like you said, it has been going on for years their books that are banned in challenged every single year, a New York Times article that I read on the subject, did say that 20 21 I think was the biggest year for bands and challenges, since the American
Library Association started. Keeping track of that number. I think they started keeping track in the early 2000s. so, I definitely think that it's escalating and I do think it is I definitely think it's becoming more targeted towards. Like, what we saw in the bar graph, it's targeting, racially diverse, narratives, it's targeting lgbtq people. It really does not like any books that are critical of the police in any way, shape or form.
And I think that, that is a response from the same people that I talked about earlier. They're trying so desperately to uphold the status quo. And so I do think that it's changing That it's becoming more targeted as a response to the changes that are happening in the culture at Large. Worse. Definitely a little bit. How is it changed? Particularly, I talked about this a little bit earlier, but it's definitely changed in the sense that people have caught on.
To the fact that if you couch your dislike of a book in concerns that children are being harmed over it, you can get people much more riled up than if you just said, you know, like in the case of I mentioned, genderqueer by mayakoba. This has a non-binary person in it. It I don't like it like that's not going to work as well as it
would have 20 years ago. But you know allegations that children will be harmed by adults because of this is something that obviously and rightfully gets people really upset even in cases like this where it's completely. Baseless so cool trick disgusting but it's true. Absolutely fear is one hell of a drug here. Is one hell of a drug is the most common drug in the world honestly. Yeah, yeah. What do you see for the future of children's literature and
book Banning? So I really like that, quote, by think it was Martin Luther King jr. About the Arc of justice is long, but it bends towards Justice. Acai mangled that, sorry, dr. King I really do believe that there is going to be more pushback but I don't think I mean we're not going backwards, we're not going back to a time where someone a politician can
stand up with. Heather has two mommies and say, this is this and this and this and this things that are completely unrelated to what they can try. But I don't think it's going to be as well received as it was And like almost 30 or know 30 years ago. Yeah, I really I feel hopeful, I feel hopeful in large part because of those things I just read to you from the kids who wrote their own thoughts on the board.
I mean, the younger generation kind of sees through the bullshit and, you know, like I said, there's always going to be pushed back from people who want to uphold that status quo, but the world changes, the world continues to change and I really do feel that it's bent toward justice. So, Let's hope I'm right. Yes, I really hope you're right.
Thank you for. Informing us about like what's actually happening because I don't think any of the three of us are directly involved in what is going on whereas this, affects your everyday life basically. So it's been really cool getting to hear your stories. Well, thank you for giving me a platform to do. So like I said, this is something I feel really strongly about so I'm really grateful that you gave me this space to sort of talk about all my big feelings about it of which there
are many. So You guys. Yeah so that's it for this month's book club. I'm gonna throw it over to Fiora to talk about next month's book club. All right for December. We will not be talking about a holiday romance. Instead we will be discussing the book honey, Girl by Morgan Rogers. It's like her breakout novel.
It's starring a queer woman of color and her like kind of Journey. And it's an absolutely beautiful book about so many things I fell in love with it when I read it and was just like we need to talk about this book. So and December we will reconvene and talk about honey girl. It's available in libraries bookstores. Get a copy and get ready for our December book club honey. Girl looks Fantan. You are I think it's too new to ban ya. Give it a year or two. It's really gonna be a challenge
somewhere. Yeah, well, it's actually okay. So the protagonist is 30, so it's actually an adult book, okay? It's not know why. It's actually, it's like it's a book about Millennia, like a millennial that I relate to. So, it's partially, why I picked it. So yeah, it's an adult book there. You can't ban it easily. I assume. But, you know, I'm gonna pose a great character Never Say, Never lots of diversity and This book it's really great. Honestly.
Morgan so good. Hopefully, we can talk to her one day. Alright. So we hope you'll join us next month for a book club and we'll see you next time. Thank you. Hi. And with that, we've been big gay energy, if you liked this episode check out all of our other episodes on whatever you're using to listen right now and please subscribe. And like all the Things.
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