Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy. I'm Bree. I'm Theora. And I'm Caitlin. Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media. Representation matters, and we're here to talk about it. Cheers, queers. What's on the big gay agenda today, Theora? Today, the most important item according to our Lord and Savior lesbian Jesus is High School Musical the Musical the series season three, which is so many words. What do you mean it's normal, is
it? Though, I mean, I've been saying it for like 4 months now. So yeah, I mean halfway through the show, I suppose it is normalized. But yes, we are continuing our discussion on High School Musical the Musical, the series. This episode is gonna be dedicated to season three. So if you've never seen it before, probably go back in A watch it and then B, go to our other episodes about season one and season 2 and then come back
here. I don't know why you would start on this episode for your very first big gay energy episode, but hey, welcome. We're happy to have you. All the seasons are so different. That is true. That is true. Maybe you're just a fan of gay summer Cam. No judgement. Maybe you're just a fan of drama over two week periods. No judgement. Maybe you just really love Frozen. No judgement. So welcome.
We're glad to have you here. But before we jump into all of that, I think we need to do a bit of quick housekeeping before we dive into all the big Gay agenda stuff. Yes. So if you're watching this podcast on YouTube, be sure to to subscribe to our channel, give this video a like, and drop a comment to share your thoughts. We absolutely love hearing from you. For our podcast listeners, please download this episode and leave a review if you can.
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description. Lastly, stay connected with us on all social media platforms by following at Biggate Energypod. Your interactions mean the world to us and these actions contribute to our ongoing celebration of queer media and advocacy for better representation. It really does feel like an in flight safety commercial. Yes, thank you for flying Big Gay Energy Podcast. We hope to get you to your destination of queer joy and good representation. So where's this flight headed,
Caitlin? You're headed two I believe Southern California. We are out of Salt Lake City now, Woo, and we are going to Camp Shallow Lake. What a name which I can't. Figure out if it's just a musical theater camp or because they talk about how all the counselors are just sports people now. So I'm like, is this a musical theater camp? Do they, anyway? Yeah, it's very weird because the way like EJ talks about it doesn't match the actual camp vibe. So it's weird because like you
think, Packer just said. Like, but I don't know. Anyway. Anyway, who do we meet at summer camp? Caitlin. We are introduced to Maddox. And of course, I had to name her first, because again, we've already stated my bias in the first episode. Yes. Jet, Maddox's brother, and Val, one of the camp counselors. And a queer awakening for us on one. That was also important if we need her. We do need her jet. I could do without, but we need.
Both of those women I warm up to jet later, but yeah, in this season I'm good. There are actually quite a few new additions in the season, so honorable mentions go to Emmy, Alex Dewey, and unfortunately, Alex, no, not. Alex. It wasn't supposed to be Alex. Alex. Alex, you're great. Alex is Emmy's friend. Oh, unfortunately Channing oh darn, my. Oh. The filmographer, dude. Yeah, that dude. That dude who wants to cause everybody's life to be ruined.
Oh, and then we also have Corbin that I keep forgetting to put in there. But who cares about the adults? I mean, they cared about him anyway. So, so wait, so basically this is the season quick recap. So in this season they're at summer camp like Caitlyn says. And basically it's like over a two week period that the summer
camp happens. And the special thing going on at the camp is that Corbin landed a reality show where he's like the host of this camp for some reason is putting on Frozen the musical before anyone else gets the rights, the Frozen the musical. So they're trying to document the kids putting on this play, but then it turns into like, wait, it's a reality show, so it can't be like a true documentary. It's supposed to have a bunch of
drama. So they try to instigate fake drama for TV, which sounds really weird because it's a Disney and they plug Disney Channel like multiple times, It's gonna be on Disney plus Disney plus Disney plus. This is where I felt like I was watching an ad for Disney on Disney and I was like, why are you doing this? But like, that's not on Disney brands. So I'm like, this doesn't make any sense that Disney would sign off on this shit where they're like, no, we want it to be
cutthroat drama. Cause like, in what universe is that a Disney show? Like it's so weird. Like why did Channing be like? Yeah, that's what Disney wants. I I forget what it's called, but they tried to do a reality show with kids. I think they might have been out of camp too. Making them cutthroat. People I don't know. I didn't watch it, but it was a. Thing. Does that sound like what Disney would put on their platform though? Like plus. Maybe Disney Plus is getting weird so. I mean.
Season four, it gets so like, there's just like more there. It's not like to the point where it's not Disney anymore, but like they're getting more adventurous with some things, I feel like. I guess, but I feel like Channing doesn't know what channel this is going to, like what streaming? Platform is going Dance Moms is on Disney Plus. I mean, it's not a Disney Plus show, but. But like for Disney Plus, to be the producer, which he said many times it just, it feels like
that's not the vibe they want. They want wholesome shit. So like, it's very weird from the beginning where he's like, yeah, no, this is what we need to do. And I'm like, that's not that doesn't sound like a Disney direction to me. Like, sounds like you don't know understand the project. But of course it comes together at the end of it's wholesome because that's what Disney is. So anyway. But that's what this season is all about, basically. Is it wholesome?
It's Disney wholesome. OK, I would like to talk about someone near and dear to my heart first. I know. Yes, that asshole near. And dear to my aunt Angina, near and dear to my therapy bills. Go ahead though, Sorry. Good. No, I would like to talk about Maddox. Please do, because the more I think about her and the more I watch of her on the screen and just like, fully understand who she is as a person, the more I come to love her.
So Maddox is the stage manager and has been going to camp with EJ and Nini every summer. Nini's not here. Yes, thank God we've second of the way. I skipped her every time she was on screen this season because she's not with them at summer camp. It's like a select group that went to camp of the Wildcats and Nene was not one of them. Nene fucked up and is doing her own thing. Yeah, they got rid of. I mean Nene was still in it like.
Very little. They're phasing out Olivia Rodrigo so she could go become Olivia Rodrigo in the real world. And then I hate the part in the beginning where they're like, oh, Ricky's doing his own thing and it's like, cool, we're not going to have him either. And then by the end of the first episode, he shows up at camp. And I'm like, God damn it, we can't get a break from you two one season. I wonder who's gonna be the male lead. This is a mess.
Like there's only one. No. Well, yeah, technically, but no. No, but I mean like in in the realm of High School Musical, the musical series. Like there's can only be one man who's actually gonna be cast as the lead. And it's always Ricky. Anyway, poor EJ. He got real screwed this season. I feel really bad for him. Not gonna lie, he got fuck. Sorry, I know this is the Maddox section, but. Oh, no, no, no, it's fine. OK, So, OK, now the team just brought up like a couple things. Sorry.
Put Maddox on hold real quick. So sorry, Maddox, Sailor, you're amazing. OK, so yes, EJ I feel like after last season, like he just keeps getting hit and hit and hit with more stuff. Should we just talk about E JS? OK, real quick. OK, so yeah, here's how the beginning of the show OK, I have things to say about season three, 'cause I'm just like, it's two weeks. Keep this in mind and I'm just like, this is so absurd, but teenager brains who don't conceptualize time very well
because they don't. So anyway, like, it's like EJ, Gina, Carlos. Who else is in the car? Ashlyn. Ashlyn. It was just them, right? They all drive together. OK, Sorry, sorry. I'm just. I'm trying to picture into my brain. It's a little fuzzy how. Could she not name Ashlyn? First guys like, I was like, I was looking, I was in my brain looking at the car, so E JS driving Gina's next to him. Then there's Carlos. I was like, who's Elsa's back
there? Ashlyn. Sorry Ashlyn. So they're all like excited and singing and they're like, we're going to go to camp and E JS gone a billion times. So he's like Courtney and Courtney. Because she has no, I swear she has to be. I yeah, right. Exactly. That's why I was like, there's people in this car. OK, Yeah, so. People in this car. I just couldn't. Remember. Filled up. I couldn't. Remember So like for some reason they are the only ones going to the summer camp.
It's them. You just super kick out Big Red and Seb. They're like, Nope, you guys aren't allowed to come. Yes, I was going to get to that because, like, they make up stupid excuses why they're not going. And I'm like, OK, so we like for some reason paired the cast down for this summer camp, which is, I mean true to an extent. Not everybody's going to go to the summer camp, otherwise it'd be weird in real life. But like, it's weird enough. Also, they add too many though,
so yes. So anyway, they go to the camp. They're all excited. EJ is like a veteran of this camp. And so he's like, we're going to have so much fun and like, him and Gina are dating for real finally. And he's like, this is going to be great. We're, I'm going to show you all these things. We're going to have so much fun. And then the whole thing with the documentary starts. And Corbins like, well, I'm not actually involved. I'm just here to promote this thing and film some shit.
So you guys are gonna have to figure this shit out. Like, who's directing? Who's actually doing it? And so for some reason, at this camp where EJ learned to be a great actor, Nini learned to be a great actress. Nobody knows how to run theater, which doesn't make sense. So the director of the camper Dewey is like, well, I guess you're doing it EJ because you know everything about this camp as was established when you're teaching your friends about it.
So you're in charge. So poor EJ can't like, enjoy his last summer camp before he goes to college. He has to, like, be in charge. And when you're in charge of something, it changes your entire behavior cause like he's the boss of everybody and like didn't ask for this support EJ. So like basically that starts the tension with Gina throughout the whole time where she's like wow, I thought we were gonna spend all this time together and blah blah, blah.
I'm like girl, he got put in charge of this thing he didn't ask to be in charge of and you're like mad at him. And it's two weeks. It's just. Two weeks out of your whole. Summer and they're like the summer's ruined and it's like it's two weeks. You get 3 months off for summer, like just have the rest of the summer. Why is everything waited on this two week period? It's so stupid.
Try to like. The pressure Cause like not only is he directing his first show ever that he's never done, has never even thought about directing, but it's going to be a documentary aired on Disney Plus for everyone. I'm screaming it. Yeah, exactly. Like, that's not nothing. And if you, like, cared about him, you would understand that and be like, yeah, this is in an insane circumstance. Yeah, shit's going to be weird because nobody knew we were going to be doing this.
Like, have some compassion for, like, poor EJ, like, but no, it's like, no, we obviously can't be together because these two weeks have been so weird. And it's like, when else are you going to be in this position at this summer camp? Like, never. Like, just that's so stupid. I was like, it just, it felt like they were forcing drama just to break them up, just to break them up. And it's like, this is insane and it's not real life. Like it was weird. To be honest, I kind of wish
theirs was more mutual. Yeah, I agree. It was. They were growing apart. In the two weeks, it was 2 weeks I meant. Before that, let's be real. They were never really going to be a thing. No. And at that point, yeah, Season 4, Gene, it would make more sense for them to break up, but whatever. They go through multiple personality changes each season. Like, I don't think they get no. For real, they do.
It really confuses the shit out of me because we'll get, we'll get to the Ashland section where like I completely go off about this 100. Percent No. That is exactly what it is. That's why. No one has the same personality Season the season no. No, no. But like also though the why this one pissed me off the most though, it's just because like, yeah, teenagers are growing their hormonal.
They change like absolutely. And like when it's happening over the period of a school year or a semester, it makes more sense because you have more time to like change. This is a two week ordeal and like everybody changes their personality in two weeks. And I and I'm. Like, and they're basing life decisions off of camp. And it's like, camp is not real life. Camp is a vacation like you. It's like those people who are just like, yeah, we're going to live in Hawaii and get this
house. And then they do it and they're like, we can't afford this. And it's like, it's like, yeah, no shit, dude, this was not real life. Like, you can't base your life off of this fantasy vacation. And that's what they're doing. And I'm like, what are they doing? This is so wild. I will say that musical theater camps are a different breed. That's not vacation. Like you don't. You're not even allowed to. Treat it like that. I'm sure if it's actually a theater camp, but this isn't
actually a theater camp. It's set up as a regular camp to. Understand this camp, OK? The way EJ talks about it, he's like, yeah, we go in the canoe. We do all this shit like it's a regular camp that also has theater. It's not like theater camp. Like when I was young, I went to lacrosse camp. You're right. That is not a vacation. You're training to do something. Like that's not what this is
what they're doing. They're in some hybrid where there's like also a play, but it's mostly about camp camp, Like there's camp traditions, there's like all of this stuff, but I. Would have loved to like go to a camp like that. My camp just kept giving me panic attacks. Yeah, like, poor EJ. Anyway, so that's my rant about that, because I thought this was it's it just feels like the writers were trying to force
shit. Like, again, it's the relationship Mcguvin's. They keep being like, OK, the plot is like the play, but we also have to like move the characters in relationships we need them in.
So we have to like force drama and it just feels forced and not natural, particularly in this two week time span, which like drove me insane 'cause I'm like, I can see very transparently that you were trying to force EJ and Gina apart, who were fine until they got to this camp and then put her with Ricky from the beginning. I'm like, that's what you're just do it, get it over with. I don't care. Stop like, forcing this ridiculousness on me.
That's what out, man. You brought up that EJ was like thrown into directing it. And so, like, I just keep thinking about that time, like when he was in the tent working on stuff, because they had like a huge film day the next day and everybody just kept interrupting him being like, why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing it?
And I'm just like, I know exactly what that feeling was like, 'cause like I worked on something where I was, like working 24/7 and like, nothing was going right. And you it's everything is on you. You're in charge it. It changes everything when you are the one responsible versus you're the one in it. And like, nobody has compassion for EJ when he's in this position. He didn't ask to be. In this whole season is very selfish on everyone's part. Yeah, I totally, yeah. That's what it is.
Maybe that's why it drives me nuts. And I'm like why? Yeah, everyone's very going through, but because they're all going through. Shit. But like, in the context of the play, maybe it's because, like, the kids never have to actually put themselves in that position because an adult is always doing it and they just assume, oh, like Miss Jen's going to take. Like, they never think about what Miss Jen actually has to do to like, get their shit, get their plays going.
They just show up and they're like, I'm in the play, whatever. But all the stuff she gets paid to go through, they never put themselves in that position. But here's EJ. You see your friend doing it and not. At one point, Oh my God, I said. Frankie, Carlos. Carlos does help him, which was cool to see him in like The Thing and actually working with EJ. Yeah, because Carlos is the one. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So he he should have had the most compassion because he's kind of been the second in command in a way. But man, that drove me nuts. I'm like. He. He He has to do this. Like what? Like leave him alone. Oh my God. And. It's like we can never be together because of the way you're behaving. It's like he's in charge of the play. Leave him alone. This is not real life. Sorry. The whole thing with him and Gina really pissed me off 'cause. It was just so forced.
It was just so forced. I hate it so much. There's something I did love about E JS Journey is that he calls in Miss Jen. Yeah, that was kind just to teach him how to be a director. And she just comes in with like 50 bullet points. It's like okay. So this is what you need to do. You need to make an entrance when you walk into the park. Oh my God, I love her lessons. That was really great. I I did appreciate that, that whole episode with her. It was definitely weird not
having her the whole season. It was weird. And then I like where their relationship in particular goes forward because they they bond over this and become more on equal ground. Because like EJ is growing up, he's like graduating, graduated, actually getting out of the high school. So I like that him and Jen, Miss Jen come well later, Jen to him come to more of a like we're adults. On more equal footing with each other. And it kind of starts here.
So I thought that was really cute and important. Yeah, yeah. It was very sweet. And then she's also so happy to see her babies. Only that was a really weird the when they had this Jed say everybody quiet, mommy's talking. I just felt very weird. I was into that. I was like, yes, keep talking. Miss Jed. Yeah. What do you want? I'm here for this. I was like, that was. For the adult lesbians in the room, we're like, yeah, shut up. Mommy's talking. Let her talk.
Let her talk. And then also when she told EJ to find someone like Carlos, if he were at the camp and EJ goes, he is at the camp and she goes don't take Carlos, Carlos is mommy's. I do love that she does. She has great comedic timing. Yes. Agreed. OK. Anything else about EJ? No, I just yeah, he's just bothered me. But thank you for letting me rant. Oh, but he also has like the pressure from his dad. Yeah, yeah, that's the only
thing too. We saw a little bit of it last season, I believe, where like his dad basically bought his way into college. Was this before or after that big scandal? So, like his dad wants him to succeed, doesn't want to let him. Not at one point he's told. I don't even know what his college plans are. I forget. Well, basically, OK, It's not so much that he wants EJ to succeed. Dad is more interested in the legacy of the men in their family.
And he's like, no, like all of us want to Duke you're going to do because that's the family legacy. And like he's like all of us are successful business people. You have to be a successful business. It's one of those things. He's like dad is imprinting the family life onto EJ and not letting EJ be EJ. And so there's that friction with his dad. So his dad is trying to send him 'cause EJ wanted to take.
The other thing with Gina is that EJ was gonna take a gap year, basically, and be like, I'm not gonna go to school yet. I wanna figure my shit out and stay in Salt Lake. So like, him and Gina could be a thing and he can figure out what he wants to do, 'cause he doesn't know. So dad's like, fuck that shit, you have to be successful. So he's trying to send him to some like leadership training or like. Oh, it was like something or cash. Caswell's like leadership
training. Right, exactly like something like that, where he's like, no, no, no, you need to do something that's going to gear you towards success in business. You're not taking time off. So like, dad was forcing him into that. So E JS like, well, OK, I didn't want to be in charge of this play, but if I can prove that it's successful and it makes a lot of money on TV, then maybe my dad won't send me to this like, leadership thing.
I can just be like, look, I'm already a like, please stop trying to control me. So that's the other element of pressure on to EJ to make this play and the documentary specifically, not just the play, the documentary. Tangible success that he could show his dad as proof that he's finding his own way and being successful. That's the lesson at the end of the day. And apparently to measure the success, you have to be trending in Brazil, which is fun. Brazil, the Brazilians, they go
hard with their fandoms, OK? If if you're big there, you're going to make it. That's what it feels like. So I think that's what that was about. But I was like that's very specific and odd. Yeah, no, I agree. I was like, OK, sure. Is that maybe it's a theater thing. I don't know. Maybe it's a Disney thing. But they are very hardcore in Brazil at least that's like because online like you always see like they're into it. So good for them, good for you. If you're listening from Brazil,
get on, you help us trend. Can can we talk about Maddox now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go. Cool. All right, so Maddox, just like me, she is happy and full of energy when she wakes up. And yeah, she gets to. I think it's a bugle that she plays in the morning to the shallow lake song that she sings. And I just love that. Yeah, not everyone appreciates that. I I died it down when I was with the aura. That's a classic camp thing, though, is the bugle in the morning.
It's like everybody up. Yeah, it's like a camp thing. No. OK, they're establishing that. She is very attached to the traditions at this camp and takes them seriously and takes joy in them. That's what they're establishing. Got it. OK, yes, 'cause she's always talking about newbie initiation night and camp traditions. Camp nicknames like she loves. This is her home, correct?
So her home life. She has a brother Jet who we don't find out his brother till like halfway through and then no one else finds out about it till like a little longer. Yes, and they have a very strained relationship in this season. For good reasons like God damn it, jet all. Right. So let's talk about what Jet did. So Jet outed Maddox to their parents without, apparently without meaning to, Like he thought that Madison was a guy. Which I mean like the typical Madison name I feel like is
female. But also, regardless of whether you're trying to out somebody or not, like what he did was fucked up. He was mad. He's like, Oh, my sister's dating when I'm not allowed to or something, I'm just gonna, like, show it to Mom and dad to get her in trouble. And then he inadvertently outs her by doing that because it was a girl. And like, yeah, so it's fucked up no matter what. Like, he was intentionally trying to get her in trouble. So, like, you can't be like, oh, you didn't mean to.
No, he meant to get her in trouble, but then he outed her in the process, which he didn't mean to do that. But either way, who's being a little bitch? And he also apparently there's like, it's more than just that. So like their relationship has been strained for so long. They used to be really close, but as they grew up, I guess personality changes. Hormones. Yeah, he's like not being there for her. Like, I feel like she needs to be reassured by people.
Yeah, I mean, she her, she became very isolated, like, that's why she clings to camp. She became very isolated and clings to things where she feels safe, which is why camp is such a haven and why she, like, freaks out when camp things don't go well because, like, that's her safety. That's what she knows. That's familiarity. She knows who she is in that setting. She doesn't know who she is in her family anymore. It's like she's kind of. Isolated.
Yeah. But at camp, when we're meeting her after the first rehearsal, I believe Courtney offers to help with costumes because you know, it's Courtney's thing and that was her whole personality in season one. And Maddox tells her that that she always, that Maddox always does it and can handle it. And Courtney kind of just like shuts up and she's like and walks away.
And I feel from Maddox in this moment because she looks and she's like, oh shit, I didn't, I said something wrong and she goes to say something, but Courtney's already gone and after that we get a confessional type footage of her saying So. The thing about me is that people sometimes call me an acquired taste, which is a fancy way of saying I'm not for everyone, which I pretend I'm fine with like it makes me cool or something, but it actually kind of hurts my feelings.
And like this, this is this is what you need to know about Maddox is that she looks confident, but on the inside she does internalize everything that people say about her, which makes Jet's betrayal even more hurtful for her, and probably why she doesn't do as well with people. She has Beatrice syndrome where she basically like, doesn't know who she is. She's not super confident with who she is, so she hides behind the things she can do, so she's
valuable to people. If she's doing things like I'm going to play the bugle in the morning, I keep the camp going that way. I have value. I am the person who handles all of the costumes, so nobody else has to, so everybody else can have fun. I have value. That's a lot of what she does. So as the stage manager and costume designer and all of that stuff, Maddox is valuable to the production. She can hide. It's a hiding role too.
She's not in the play. She's not really interacting the way the actors interact, but she's hiding behind the skill set she has. So, like, that's the other facet to her. So yeah, it makes sense that that kind of character who's hiding behind skills is
internalizing a lot of things. That's those two things tend to go hand in hand and she definitely has those traits going on. I so, I I mean, I was online looking at everything I could possibly for High School Musical, the musical, the series, and very important. To say all the words Caitlin. You have to, because if I just said High School Musical, it'd be the movies. So yes. And someone brought up that they think that Maddox might be Neurodivergent.
And it got me thinking. And it really does seem like that, especially in season 3 when she is having trouble communicating and relating to the new kids. And like especially, she doesn't have a filter. She does say like whatever, like pops into her brain most of the
time. And I relate to her a lot, which is probably why I love her so much and it makes me really sad that people didn't like her in the beginning, especially when Ashlyn says it. Don't you think Like Maddox is a lot and this is coming from someone who is also a lot? And later she says that she's so chill. So, like, I don't understand the season four to season 3 jump. It's because the it's because Ashlyn is having feelings and she doesn't know what they are and how to handle them.
So she's like, isn't this person really annoying? Or like, it's well, it's a situation where you're like, you know, you're complaining a lot about this one person, about how much you hate them. It's really weird. How much do you think about this one person? It's like that she's like, she's a lot because Ashlyn feels a lot and doesn't understand what she's feeling. So that's her snitching on herself. That's not really a comment about Maddox.
That's a comment about Ashlyn and what's going on inside Ashlyn. 'Cause she's thinking about her too much, that's why she's a lot. Well, also she probably feels shit and she doesn't understand it, so she's just like, she's a lot. She makes me feel all these weird things and like that's a lot. I don't know what to Yeah, that's her telling on herself. That's not a comment on Maddox. OK fine. I just. I want everyone to love Maddox just because she's sweet.
She's just happy and wants to be there, Wants everyone else to be happy and be involved. And eventually it works out, but it's like you just met this person that you don't know. It's hard to like integrate into a tight knit group that just went through theater war basically and is very like bonded. So it's like, yeah, any kind of person who tries to assimilate, it's going to be like it's going to be hard. Like it's hard to get into that.
So it takes, it takes a bit and they only have two weeks at this camp. So the whole season we try to see. We see Maddox trying to fit in. And one of main points in her storyline is that her and her girlfriend that she had at camp last year broke up at the camp prom and Jet trying to get back in Max's good graces. And I think it was Ricky's idea. I think that's how this whole thing happened. So Ricky got Jet to invite Madison to the camp prom, and Maddox takes it personally, like
that. Jet doesn't think that she's fitting in with the new girls, so that's why he invited her. And she's like, I don't want to see her. This is literally the anniversary of us breaking up like who's? So fucked. Oh my God, it's so fucked. I mean, the sentiment was sweet, but the play out was terrible and I do wish Madison wasn't there because then we have to get through all the season four shit with her. Just talk to your sister. Jet. What the fuck?
Like this was unnecessary. He's not very good at communicating and we've seen this because he's the silent, scary person that everyone's terrified of in the beginning of this season. He's the broody guy Jet has. His own issues going on. Everyone has issues, yes, that's how people work. So that gets better for her. I guess she's it makes her more confused. Really. Isn't the girlfriend JoJo Siwa though? Yeah, it is. It is JoJo Siwa. I was excited to see her.
It also doesn't make sense. I was gonna. Say it, doesn't it? Doesn't because she's a Nick kid. Like she's a Nick star. I know, not Disney. So very strange. It's like, who is actually queer in real life and? In this age bracket. They're like, oh Judge oh, literally the only person. It's very strange. But like, she can't dance in the show. It's like she can't act very well either. It's very weird. That's not what I mean. She was never like a really trained actor.
Right. So why is she here? I was so confused. I don't understand. Why they didn't have her dance like why did they write her? In as the character was, I don't know, it was such a waste of that particular person's talents to have her play this role. But like cool, she's playing a queer person on TV, that's also that's to be celebrated. No knocking to her, but like, I was expecting them to have like a duet together and it never happened. Yeah, they used to like what
they're like. We have JoJo Siwa. Wait two hours. That's it. That's all we can. Yeah. Olivia Coleman Money. I'm saying like God damn like. To get the Olivia Coleman joke, please go watch our Heart Stopper episodes. Love Olivia Coleman. Anyway, I wish she was here. I'd be more excited about you. Imagine Olivia Coleman showing up. I can. I can totally imagine her being the aloof camp counselor. Yes, like, I wanted that. Just Olivia Coleman as Olivia Coleman Just in the show for no
reason. Speaking of camp counselors, Dewey is played by oh shit, what's his name? Jason Earls, who was the brother in in High School Musical in Hannah Montana. And yeah, so I I grew up with him and now he's an adult. And actually he never looked his age. He's always looked so much younger, like he's like 28 when he was playing 16 in Hannah Montana. And it was insane anyway that he just the aging and I think he actually worked on the show as well. It's pretty cool.
So yeah, there there's your fun fact. But yes, Maddox, I just love her. And she has to go through a lot this season as well with just trying to handle the change because it lots changing. Especially if you put in these freaking Wildcats because they change everything. It's a metaphor for growing up, but yeah. So before we get to Ashlyn. I have one thing I want to say that involves both Ashlyn and Maddox, so I thought it was I'm ready for. This I've been waiting. So on.
I don't know if this is worth it, but on the first day where they're arrive at camp, Maddox and Ashlyn are both wearing rainbows, so foreshadowing shit. Ashlyn's shirt has a giant rainbow for the heart and Maddox's socks have rainbows on it. So it's like from the beginning the wardrobes. Like watch these two. You always pay attention. To wardrobe, cause wardrobe says things about the characters. I don't like clothes. I have trouble paying attention to that.
But yeah, it's yeah, thank you. That is very helpful. Yeah. Oh, it sure was. So if you're watching it and you're just like, I see where this is going already. We always, we always. We've already established many times in this podcast that I don't understand subtext and like little things to and I can't assume things so like I have to be told. I'm hoping by me bringing it up multiple times you'll pick up on things. I pick up on more. Now I do. It's a process.
I just have to talk with Fiora a lot. That's why we're here. That's why we're here. We're queer also. Like, how do you not notice the rainbows, Caitlin? Shouldn't you just notice that? Anyway, Be like rainbows? Ricky wears rainbows a few times, and I I applaud him for that. I love that good ally. He's queer in real life, is he? I think he might have been bullied to come out though. Another Kit Connor situation. Super fucked. Up. I'm not totally mad, don't want
me on that. But yeah, so everyone was like expect. I think in like season two, he like came out in real life or something and so they were expecting his character to come out and then. How acting works? And the people who play Ashlyn and Big Red are also queer in real life, I believe. Love. That. Love that. I know Ashlyn definitely is, but I just saw a comment that said Big Red was good.
So they're like, I think he's going to or maybe Ashlyn and Big Red and then the next comments from like a year later saying like, well, two out of the three came out. Listen, I thought on the show we were and eventually going to get Miss Jen coming out because I was like, she's just like a magnet for attraction, like constantly. She always has at least two people into her. And I was just like, when is Miss Jen going to meet the barista? And like, that starts up because
and it never happened. I was like, come on man, where's the show? Everyone is queer. They don't know it, but they are. Yeah, I mean, just like life. Anyway. So, Speaking of queer, let's get into Ashlyn's journey, because it's very good, yes? Ashlyn goes through a whole identity crisis this season. Like. That is her arc. Identity crisis, that's that is like the what is what does Ashlyn do this? He's an identity crisis. It's so good, though. Yeah, so she is going through some shit, OK?
This poor girl is so confused, 'cause she's just coming off of being Belle and Beauty and the Beast. So like she's on a high, like she was the least. She was the main character in her life, yes. Who knew who she was. Like she had to come into her own and feel comfortable in her own skin basically for that role. So now she's like confident, and naturally she is expecting to get a good part in Frozen because you don't go backwards, right? But instead she is cast as the ensemble.
The casting process is the suckiest part of doing theatre because there's always a part you want, but most times you won't end up getting it. I'm not bitter. Never. Not at all. Why would you be Kailyn? No, not at all, anyway. Once she gets cast in the ensemble by Vow, she thinks vows out to get her something. And I know, like, that is a pretty natural. That's how it starts. It's enemies to go, enemies to lovers.
That's how it starts. Like, it's like there's one person like, she's literally the reason you didn't get a role, so it is her fault, but like, it's just because the other two she saw whatever. It's subjective at the end of the day, which? Is the shitty part, but this brings me to a whole point that I backed up with statistics because I like numbers. So to Val's credit, there aren't a lot of female roles in the musical, just like Frozen alone.
Besides On and Elsa, it is mostly males roles which can also be said about most shows. At least that's what it feels like. And it's also the reason why it's easier to get a better part if you are a male Ricky who doesn't do anything well in auditions, because especially at like the high school level, there are more females doing it and with least less roles and there's more competition and
more drama. So what I'm hearing is in order to get the best person in the best role, we should just get rid of gender and just cast the best person. Yeah, Speaking of which. Speaking of which, Caitlin, this has nothing to do with High School Musical, but if you're into that, I'm just finishing up a book right now that's Queer AF that actually deals with this. And it's so fun. It's called Iris Kelly Doesn't Date by Ashlyn, Ashlyn, Ashley, Harrington, Blake. Go, listen, go go read that
book. It's so good. And it actually does have this plot line in it. It's magical. Sorry, I mean to derail you, but it. Wasn't you? It can happen. It's WhatsApp because I was to tell you to. Oh, I will. Don't worry. OK, cool. We should talk about it together, 'cause I think you'd like it. Yes, yes. OK, so all the groups I was in were struggling to find more shows that were female heavy, 'cause there's like none. Yeah, it's illegally. Even Legally Blonde had a lot of
male characters. Like, we had to, like, keep pulling in adults to be the male characters. It was that bad. So statistics because I may and also get distracted while researching stuff on Broadway. In the 2017 to 2018 season only 37% of title characters, which means non ensemble so they actually had a name, were women. In 2018 to 2019, this number went down to 32% in film. From the top 100 highest grossing films in 2021, only 34% of speaking characters were female, down from 36% in 2020.
Now I know fanboys out here about to come into the comments like they for some reason get to them. Why are you listening to this? Well, we don't, we don't put our shorts on YouTube anymore because. Of them it. Doesn't go well. So yeah, I don't expect to get these comments, but I know people would come in and be like, well, that's because men are doing it better and that's why they're higher grossing. No, that's just because the opportunities aren't there as
much in the higher budget films. Which are action films 99% of the time? And I know someone's going to use like the marvels as something, but you know what? There's always other things that go on. And then also I've seen a lot of comments from men like Downing movies before they even see them because it's like female Lud. Misogyny is a hell of a drug. That's. The word misogyny. Yeah, no, that's why this is all. Patriarchy getting the word
misogyny and monogamy. They are not the same thing, Caitlyn. Don't just throw out N words if you don't know what they mean, girl. I said I know what it but I Anyway, that's enough time. We can do a whole episode on disparity in the media. We definitely could to Ashlyn. Anyway, back to Ashlyn.
Meanwhile, Ashlyn also has something against Maddox in addition to Val, because Maddox can be very blunt and direct, and she may have come on a little too strong when talking to Ashlyn. Like Maddox, Maddox really does like just like, oh, you're this, you're that not. She doesn't ask. She doesn't like, hey, what do you think about this? How? Yeah. Like, she she. Just reads the writing on the wall and she's just like, boom. Yeah, she's like, you're a fire sign, yeah.
She's like, no. And so Ashlyn already feels out of place being in the ensemble cause like that was out of left field for her. And I feel like she probably feels attacked by Maddox when Maddox tries to question her about things. That made Ashlyn question herself even more, because again, Ashlyn came in feeling sure about herself. Because being Belle had to, like, have her accept who she is. So she's like, this is me, I know myself, I'm good now.
And now literally everything she knows is crumbling. Yeah, she feels like she's taking a bunch of LS, but really? Maddox notices every little thing and just starts like poking in the holes and it's crumbling. And the facade? It's OK. It's just it's painful. And I think Ashlyn was clinging to everything that she knew about herself and she didn't want to allow herself to grow. She's like, I don't care if that's who I am, Like, I want to stay what I know because it's safe.
She, I mean, this poor girl, is going through a lot of change all at once. Like we see her go through. It's two weeks. Guys this is 2. Weeks. Let's sleep away Camp though Theora. So we're it's like. It's a wild two weeks this season and. I'm not into astrology and stuff like that. But we're not those gays. We're. Not astrology. Gays. I don't think any of us are. I know Bruno's a little bit, but she's not like into it. But I know, like people are into it. It's their personality.
And like, yeah, it's their personality. It's who they are. Good for you. So she she seems to be very much into that, like she has a psychic. I don't think that's. I don't know if that's part of it. Please don't come at me. I don't know much about this area. No, it just it depends.
There's different facets, but like Ashlyn is already in that realm because she has a regular psychic she talks to regularly and then Maddox. And she talks about how like she knows who she is. She's a something, I think, she said. Capricorn. Right. She she knows her own astrology science. So like you could They're showing that they have things in common. That's what they're demonstrating here.
So when she realizes that she was born at a completely different time of day and ruined the eggs Benedict when she was born. Because you know, you know what, we learned things about EJ and Ashlyn's family of how, like, they're not really great people, at least E JS parents. I feel so bad for him because his mom was pissed off that Ashlyn ruined the eggs Benedict when she was born anyway, so she finds out that she's a Leo rising and she's like, shit.
I'm a completely different person than I thought, like everything is different because of a different sign. But like, I do feel like Ashlyn was very or like slightly too very out of character this season. I we've already mentioned before that I don't think the personality connects to either seasons. Really. I feel like this was just AI. She's spiraling season well, I mean, I felt like she was quite
aggressive. That's because she's her life is she feels like, again, teenagers, big feelings. It's the end of the world. She feels like it's the end of the world. So like, yeah, she's not handling it well. She's usually more reserved, like, especially in like the first season and stuff. But she's not going through turmoil. In the first season, she's just chilling being a side character.
And then in the second season, she actually gets in the spotlight as a character and like does go through like the whole like body positivity issue or accepting thing and then what it means to be a lead versus like you know, background. She gets her first like love interest, like she goes through a lot and then she gets all the things that is very secure and then a bomb gets thrown on her. It's OK for her to like act out and like not know how to handle that.
It's all new and she wasn't expecting any of this. I was gonna give a reason. For it, there's there's a reason. It could be because she really doesn't who who she is right now and maybe trying to. Overcompensate. Yes, that is exactly what's happening. So it's not at it is out of character, but it isn't. It's like a normal reaction. OK, so Maddox realizes that Ashlyn's, just like a vowel may actually be more like how Maddox acted towards Madison at camp.
So like they started off as enemies to lovers. Because, you know, that's gay. It's so gay. It's the best Maddox. Well, it's not that she's again. Maddox is like, you're talking about this person a lot. Like I under. I see what this is like. You're fixated a lot on this one person. You seem to have big feelings about this. What? That's what she sees.
It's not just that I hate. Her, I think we get that Maddox speech after, like, Ashlynn is literally at the movie night talking about how annoying Val is, right? And like, I think she also says like that, how she's perfect in things and something like that. She's like that energy is there like. Maddox is like, Oh my God girl, you have it so bad. Exactly. She's like, you have a crush on this person, this, so people with crushes do. But Maddox knew how bad Ashlyn
reacted to the Leo Rising thing. She's like, I'm not saying shit right now. I do not want us to have any more issues between the two of us. Well, she doesn't say anything until literally everyone is yelling. So like the everyone is so upset with each other and Maddox tells Ashlyn that she shouldn't take out her romantic feelings for on Val and Oh my gosh. And then Ashlyn just starts gay panicking and freaking out. Be like I have a boyfriend, A male boyfriend.
Again, world is crumbling. Yeah, so it takes Ashlynn a little while, 'cause she's still trying to come to terms with her new self, and she realizes that she has been snapping at Valmore once she, like, steps back and stops being too defensive. And after Color War, she's helping pick up streamers, confetti from the floor. And Val says, you don't have to do that. I'm like, girl, there's a lot of stuff on that ground. Take the help. Yeah, just let her do it, man. Get a leaf.
Blower, at least. So Ashlynn hugs Val at the end after apologizing to her. She's like, Val, I'm sorry I've been so snapping at you. I don't know what's going on with me. And Val, meanwhile, knows exactly what's going on. She's studying psychology in college, like she's like, this is so obvious. But I also love that she doesn't say anything about it because, like, it would be really embarrassing.
Like someone that you have a crush on who's like, you know, is straight, but she's just like, I'm gonna let you figure it out. Nothing's changing. Also like as a psychologist, like part of it is like the person has to get there. Like you telling them the answer is not how it works. Like it's a process. Like the individual person who's processing like has to get to the conclusion so she's like, I understand what this is. You need to get to your own conclusion so you can get to a
place of acceptance. It's fine. Just don't be weird about it. Don't grab my ass or anything. It's fine. Don't be weird. So yeah, I feel like she's she is taking her psychologist role very seriously or she's like, OK, you'll you'll get there, you're you're you're on a journey. It's fine. I know it's very tame. I get it. She's she's very confident in herself, as she should be. Like, good for her. So Ashlynn hugs Val and there are fireworks.
Like literally. And like, I know that that's quite cheesy, but like, it is geared towards kids. And I feel like that might help them like, oh, that's what's going on. So you know what? I'll take it. You know what we get Ashley figuring her shit out. So, oh, also, side note, they talk about the Disney Channel games in this episode. Does anyone remember that? Do you remember that?
Fiora. No. OK, so I lived for those games every year and they were just like these random little short like 15 minute things of them playing like the Olympics, but they pit all the Disney stars against each other on like 4 different colored teams. Oh, I guess it's like legend. So I grew up with legends of the hidden temples. Oh God, that that. Show scared the shit out of me when I was little. The OG not they tried to revise it.
The OG that show is great. So like, everybody tried to rip that off later and make it their own shorter, condensed version. That show was lit that. Thing scared me. I was terrified. I mean to be fair, The Lion King scared me. Lion King, 7th grade. The play is terrifying. It's it's fun to do the dance. I'm. Sure it is, but it's terrifying to be like, what the fuck's happening as a child when you're expecting cartoons? Oh yeah, I saw it when I was older. So I don't you're like I'm
scarred. Terrifying. I don't remember it because it was just like, what am I watching? No, but at the time of the Disney Channel games, I was very obsessed with Sabrina. Not Sabrina. Yeah, Sabrina, Bryan. I was about to say Sabrina Carpenter. That's why I was trying to Sabrina Bryan, who was Dorinda in The Cheetah Girls and did not understand that obsession back then either. But she was on Team Yellow, so I was team. Yellow all the way.
OK, so now that Ashlyn knows that she's queer, Carlos gives Ashlyn a pride pin at the camp prom and welcomes her to the community. Also, like, when did did she just, like, make an announcement that she's queer or something? He has gaydar. He's not blind. He's like, I see what's happening here. I'm not done. She has to figure it out. And then I can hug her and welcome her to the Alphabet Mafia, which she does. It's very cute. I feel like her whole journey to figuring this out was watered
down. Oh for. Sure. It's Disney. It's Disney. It's still important for, especially for Disney Produce show to have this representation in it. But truly, I like how it played out because it's. It's real. Like she didn't realize what was happening. And, like, that's like, it's one of those things where you like when you realize you're gay and then you look back and you're like, wow, I was so gay. Like that thing I did with my friend, like, when I had like a like, I was clearly jealous of
her and like, all of the stuff. But it was coming from a place of, like, I wanted to date her. Like, that's exactly what she goes through. Like that is so real. Like, you know, So I think it was handled very well. I liked it. I liked her. And the arc took the whole season and it didn't come out of nowhere like they did sprinkle it in. So it was paced very well and I love that the other queer people are like, I see exactly what's going on.
Like I see the writing on the wall, like girl like come now, like face, like look at the rainbow, like come on. So I do. I like all of that. And I like that they didn't have Maddox, like try and push her or like try and flirt with her, all this stuff. She just let her come to her own conclusion. She let Ashlyn come to her own conclusion. Something I like that about. Maddox wasn't there to make. Ashlyn realized that she's gay. Max, she's just a lesbian. Like, yes, hold on. Lesbian.
Just talked about the girl that she liked multiple times. Like it was just normal and it was great and it wasn't even her how she feel. She realized Ashlyn realized it. It was with. Correct. And I like that because often times it gets weird where the queer awakening is then the person you date. And that gets weird because I don't know. Like, it's like you're the only gay person I know and I'm dating you, so it becomes hard to, like, talk to them about stuff.
So I like the way they get paced as just like, friends. Like she's with Ashlyn through the beginning of her queer journey and then it gets to a romantic place later. Spoiler. But, like, I like that. That's not the gay awakening character for Ashlyn. I like that a lot. And This is why Val is very important to us. Exactly she Without Val, we wouldn't be here. Val had to take the role of Miss Jen. Exactly why was Miss Jen not? People's gay awakening. Look at her.
She would own that shit. Be like, damn right. Anyway, so yeah, very cute. I I enjoy it. So we'll talk a little bit more about Ashlyn later, but first I want to bring up a parallel to Season 2. That is, it's probably obvious, but you know what? I realized it. So I'm putting it in here.
Do it. So in the Quinceanera episode in season 2, season two O 5, I believe Mr. Mazzara asked EJ who the most interesting interview was, but EJ was too busy staring at Gina to answer, which which basically told Ben the answer and he just smiles at him knowingly. Meanwhile, in this season, EJ is now the one to ask Maddox if anyone caught her eye, and Maddox is too busy staring at Ashlynn. I forget what Ashlynn says, but she, like, makes an entrance and walks off camera.
Yeah, so Maddox just too busy smiling like an idiot staring at Ashlynn. And EJ knew then that Madeleine would be a thing. Yep. Yeah, so we knew like they they told us in this season that they're going to be a thing. They just had to figure out how to get Maddox to their. School next season, which is ridiculous. But yeah, 'cause they like to do that a lot, They're like, oh look, I'm your parents are so super cool with you just changing schools in the middle
of the year. Anyway, it drives me nuts. But it's a children's show. It's not supposed to be reality. But yeah, no, the writing was on the wall about the two of them, since they were both wearing rainbows together. Like it was right there. It was there at the beginning. So, yay, Which brings us to talking about the mental health representation in the season because we get a little bit of it when, like last season with people going through their own
internal issues. But here we see Courtney's anxiety like, really play out. Like they focused on that a lot. Yes, absolutely. And song about it and everything. I will get there. Oh, I know. I'm just throwing that in there. Because they were like, they're going full in on this anxiety. Also, like Courtney is a person now. Like, she's not just Nina's sassy black friend. She's a person. She's a person who gets a lot more. Yeah, she's great.
It's really cool that they had Gina and Courtney. You know, because when you get Olivia Rodrigo out of the picture, the other women can be people. Again, disclaimer, we're not saying anything bad about Olivia Rodrigo. It's just her character. Her character's name is really annoying. It's easier to say Olivia Rodrigo, but like, yeah, like, no, she leaves and takes the focus away. And then all the other women become people.
Because before that, in season one, they're just propping up her character, which is annoying. Same thing with the men. Like the men too were there to prop up Ricky. Like in the first season, it's just all about the two of them. And then everybody became people. Like, this is really where.
That's what I mean when I say like, before, like season three is where the show really becomes its own thing, 'cause like everybody, they pared down the cast for this camp and then everybody really got their own plot line and like, their own, like fears explored identities, like all of them. And it worked on like, Carlos got something exactly. Got overlooked so much in this show. Yes, exactly. He was just like this sassy gay guy. Like everybody became like a
person here. And it was really refreshing to see that, except Ricky really stayed the same. He was the same person but. Turkey's mostly the same throughout the entire show. I think that's the one who stayed the most consistent. Yeah, yeah, so whatever. But like lead boy aside, everybody like got their own plot and it felt pretty natural the way they were doing it, except the weird two week thing that I keep harping on.
But other than that, like it became its own thing here for me. See The thing is you keep bringing up the two week thing and in my head I'm just can't get over the fact that they said that that the music man was a month at camp in the first season. So like I don't understand how I from a month. To right. I don't understand this camp. That's part of the problem. And like I'm used to two week camps, but like I don't understand. And also this one should have been the four week 1 instead of
the two week ones. Just be like this one's going on TV, right? It's wild. Which, to be fair, they. Didn't know until they got there, but like, it's just wild. Also they they made them sign releases for this documentary without even telling them that they're signing the releases. So like that's also illegal and would not hold up in court. So technically they could have gotten any footage that they wanted deleted, but I mean, I guess they should have read it as well.
They're children, but if they thought it was but no, their parents would have had to sign it. So you know. It's that is true. That is true. They're minors, so that didn't make sense. So basically. I think they could have not had this documentary released at all. But then they wouldn't be like instafamous etcetera so? I'm just. Saying but that's true. You're you're right. Valid point. I'm the. I'm the legal system here. I like to be.
Dressed up as Christmas. I didn't realize that till Christmas. If you're not watching, Theora is wearing green and I'm wearing red and I found another costume to wear this time. Last time I was in my gold sequin jacket thingy and now I'm in my Britney Spears outfit. Those are some impressive buttons, Caitlin. Thanks. I'm surprised they still lasted. Anyway, that is so off topic right now. It is all good, OK, Courtney and her anxiety.
Courtney Oh, Courtney. And it's rough going through mental health, especially when you're not home like this is. I think this might be the first time she was removed from her house. Like, so yeah, sleeping over somewhere, definitely, at least for me, brings my anxiety out. And like, if I'm not fully mentally healthy in there, like, I'm just like, can I go home? It's a lot. It doesn't even matter where I am. Like, I could want to be somewhere.
And it's just like, I just want to feel comfortable right now. Not terrified. Yeah. So Carlos brings up that Courtney seems anxious. And this was after Courtney had a phone call with her mom talking about being anxious and how like she's just so confused about everything. And so Courtney thinks that Gina told him what her mom said on the phone. And I think it's important to show that, like, she feels
ashamed of her anxiety. But she really shouldn't, because I guarantee half the people in that room get anxious at least. Anxiety is not uncommon. Crippling anxiety, sure, but like, anxiety in general. But, like, they're trying to establish that, like Courtney is the person who puts a lot of pressure on herself to be perfect. And so that in and of itself
causes anxiety. And then to be like made the lead, which she wasn't, I think, truly expecting and like being pushed so much out of her comfort zone in such a short amount of time. Like, that's scary. Yeah, and all these, there's like all these little obstacles, like getting the lead, they keep piling on her. And one of the big things that breaks her confidence is that climbing wall. Yeah, she mentions up front, like she talks about how she is super competitive and she will
cheat. And Maddox thinks, OK, OK, cool, we're gonna win. She's like, but I am afraid of heights. She's like, oh, OK, so you win some, you lose some, something like that. But this poor girl in this climbing wall, like, she is so pressured to climb up this wall. And when she couldn't do it, she's like, OK, Gina won. We don't have to do it anymore. She didn't really, like, make it off the ground. Everyone starts chanting for her to do it.
And I could not imagine what it felt like for her in that moment because just like everyone telling you to do something that you know you can't, like, you're not capable of right now. And it's feels like it's you're gonna die if you have to. And then luckily Miss Jen was there and like, she's the one who comes up and she's like children. Yeah, you will do it when you're ready. And she's like, I'm telling you I'm not ready and she wasn't.
And Miss Jen just like hugs her and like reassures her. And Miss Jen is so sweet with all of them. And I I love that she's always there, no matter what. It's important to lesson, but like, setting boundaries is OK with people. Like, don't have. You don't have to give it to peer pressure all the time.
Like, like, yeah, like there's like the hey, if you're afraid of something, it probably means you should do it, 'cause you're as a saying for getting out of your comfort zone, 'cause if you just are crippled by your fear and never do anything, you'll never change or grow, which is true. But like, if you feel like you're going to die, like, because of your anxiety, that is not a reason to just do it anyway. Like, listen to your body, it's OK. Like, if you're not ready,
you're not ready. And it's OK to set that boundary. So that isn't that is an important lesson that this is showing. Yeah, I'm still working on that lesson. It's hard. Yes, very vulnerable to period pressure. Anyway, so the prom is the night before opening night and everything was piling on her too much. And like, she is freaking out.
I mean, she has a lead role and it's going to be aired on Disney. Like, that's the thing we have to keep bringing up, is like, this whole thing is going to be aired on Disney, right? And live streamed. Like it's not even like something that can be edited later. Yeah. And she tries to give Ashlyn her part and like props to Ashlyn for like not being like, 'cause she like the whole time Ashlyn
once a part. And like, she even tells like, Miss Jen tries to say, are you their long lost third sister that they find on ancestry.com And she's like, we actually can't add characters to this one. I checked, I'm like, thank you because it's illegal. Anyway, go watch the last episode if you haven't, to me talking about all the illegal things in this show.
So Ashley tells her that she can't do it, that she's not going to do the role for her because Courtney can do it and she's going to kill it. Which go girl? Yes. It's part of. This but Courtney is so worried about messing the show up. But she has some great friends around her and they help her and encourage her to climb that wall. But she does conquer and it's a great episode ending for the episode where she does end up climbing the wall. But I love that Maddox is with them too.
And so in the beginning, that's whole scene, Courtney is singing this prayer that she says that helps ground her and calm her down. And when everyone is having such a bad night and they're just like all about to go to bed, Ashlyn's like, can I borrow it? And she starts singing it to ground her and just like also bring everyone together. And then Gina comes in and then Ashlyn actually asked Maddox to come in because Maddox is standing like there.
Like, I'm not actually in this crowd yet, but she's there. And like, but Ashlyn is trying to welcome her in. She's like, I see you, I know who you are, like you've been just trying to fit in with us. We're all the same because they're theatre kids. Let's be real. They have the line. Exactly. Yes, camaraderie. And the song that Courtney sings cause like the backgrounds are the other girls. It's so beautiful. And Dara, I've been, I've been saying her name wrong. The first two episodes.
I'm so sorry. I've been saying Dara, it's actually Dara. Dara wrote this song at, which makes it even better. So the lyrics are here. I come loud as a lion. I'll keep on fighting. I've just begun see the horizon. I'll keep on climbing a little on the nose there. I've shown that I've grown through the changes, had to prove to myself I'm a make it here I come. I won't stop till the war is won. I can be bold, be unashamed, be in control, be in control, be unafraid, letting it show.
I was born to be brave. So I love like the affirmations that are in there, 'cause. Like she can just like keep telling her so. Like I can do this. I am bold. I'm in control of what happens, and it's also a great call back to her first song in the series, Born to Be Brave, which she kills many time in the show. And then when Courtney is climbing the wall, the background of the wall disappears. I mean, you still see the wall, but like the world around it
disappears and you just see. The stars. Oh, that's good. And it's just like how it was when Ashlyn was playing the piano, when she was singing, rising after she, like, was starting to realize that she's not who she thought she was and that she's coming into her own. And it in Ashland's song, the stars, like, it starts in a little bit in the background and then it becomes where it just like encompasses her and the piano.
And I think the stars here represent opening up to new things and endless possibilities, especially since the background does and it adds more as she's singing because, like, she's accepting herself more. Damn, that's so good. Good job, Caitlyn. And plus thank you all the astrology shit too. Like it's like empowering also. Stars are a big thing. And I mean her middle name's literally Moon.
That's true. But also, like, for the two of them, like, it's like they have to conquer this on their own in a way. Like, yeah, they have a lot of supportive friends. Like, Courtney's friends are all there as she's literally climbing the wall. And like, Ashlyn has the support system of her theater group. But like, this is like a personal journey where they have to go into the unknown, like space, the final frontier by themselves. Yeah. So that's great. No, I love that you pointed that
out. That's really beautiful. Good. Good. I guess. Cinematography, toys. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know who would make that decision. Director. Good directing. Yeah, it would. It would be. Shout out to whoever did that. That's beautiful and brilliant. I think you would be director or some DP, yeah. Love the symbolism. I'm here. For and then visual effects people executed. It, yeah, yeah. Well done. But after that, during the performance. So the Frozen performance.
Courtney begins freaking out about messing up again, and I love that they show her still struggling with this because mental health is a roller coaster. And just because you can conquer one thing like this wall, it doesn't mean that you're magically cured of these thoughts. They're gonna keep coming back. Like they probably came back 5 seconds after she conquered the wall. And then something else I love is that little Elsa, played by Alex, played by Arya Banks.
In real life, I don't think that's her last name, Arya Brooks. She gives Courtney a pep talk and gets her through her anxiety when they're backstage. Also, I don't understand how they're, like on stage and like, Courtney was in bed when they were, like, literally performing the show and then had time, 'cause, like, isn't Elsa in this? I don't. I'm really confused. It's fine. It's two weeks. It's this weird work time here and I don't understand. Let's just move past it.
Yeah, it's weird. But I love that it was the little one talking to her about this. Because it shows that if, since we're more open with talking about mental health, we've gotten so much better, like in the media and just in general in life talking about it. But it shows that by valuing our mental health, the younger generation is better equipped to handle their feelings. They have more words to describe how they're feeling. They know how to identify their feelings.
And I mean, like, yes, they aren't technically that far apart an age in the show, but it has the essence. So yeah. Agreed. I just love that same. And also cuz she's like little Elsa was talking about how she has a therapist and Courtney's like you have a therapist. She's like Oh yeah, everyone should it's great. Which, yes, we need more therapists too, because those poor people are overworked.
Not the whole positivity. Anything else to add before we get to one of my favorite weird, really weird scenes in this whole let's? Get into it. Do it. Dive right in. Let's just talk about this documentary trailer. Do it. OK, So first of all, the premiere for this documentary is one month after they do the show. What kind of Taylor Swift timeline is this I? Don't know Disney magic, because
she was. Able to put her documentary, not documentary, but show out movie out really quickly like I don't a one month. OK, Disney Magic. I guess it is. Wild. Time means nothing this season. That's my point. It means nothing. So the trailer makes it look like Maddox and Ashlyn have a crush on each other. And let's be real, Maddox at least, definitely did it's. Definitely mutual. It's just Ashley didn't know what was going on and still doesn't.
But like, I thought Ashlyn, I mean, I guess you can like two people at the same time. You definitely. Ashley was just like girls girls, that's all. That's all she was thinking, right? She was. The summer. She definitely had, because she was snapping at her, too. It's not. She just didn't recognize it.
Literally, Yeah. When they're watching it, Maddox's face, after they talk about they show it in between this whole thing happening, Maddox's face looks like she got caught with her hand in a cookie jar and she's just like, oh shit, they saw it and then actually. The funny part about that too is that like the whole plot of the documentary drama was that Ricky said something about liking Gina and it was like a big fear that that was going to come out.
But then the other crush comes, actually comes out in the in the documentary they showed us the trailer, which is really surprising. It was head baiting where they're like, oh shit, that's going to be the relationship drama, but it's actually these queers, which is fun. They're like, yes, the queers have their time of they do messiness. So actually thinks it was just edited like that and says they shouldn't have signed the
release forms. But then the camera pans to Maddox and she just turns her head away and looks a little embarrassed. She's just like, oh OK, I mean, yeah, sure, they edit it like that.
So I don't think that that whole thing was taken out of context, especially since EJ. So EJ in there says, Oh yeah, that thing that's going to be a thing when and it looks like Ashland thinks that they edited like that to be it, talking about Ashland and Maddox. But EJ didn't speak up and say that that's not what he meant when everyone else was doing that, when they took them out of context so well.
We get confirmation in season four that, like, he definitely knew that we're going to be a thing because he carved something their initials into a tree or whatever. So like. Yes, which is very weird. It's so weird. He had no time to interact with people, but he had time to. Carve his souls into a tree that weren't his and Gina's. Exactly. It's weird, but yeah, I yeah, exactly.
Plus, like you again they were very heavy-handed with the crush, because you also had the scene you pointed out earlier where like Maddox was clearly staring at Ashlyn. Like it's it's yeah, it's there. It's been there since the rainbow close. I think Ashlyn was still figuring it out, but I think Maddox fully felt those feelings wrecked. Because one of them is, has been in their queerness longer than the other. Like, yes, and there it's a journey.
Like, but it's, it's, it's. There, Maddox probably hated that she had a crush on Val and not her in the beginning. Well, yes, probably. So when they wrote their names on the wall after their performance, Ashlyn first wrote hers, and she has a little heart at the end of it. But then Gadget after Jed but after Ashlyn is the important part. Writes hers right next to Ashlyn's name and puts a heart in front of it so it looks like their hearts are together. Already and Gadget is Maddox's
camp nickname. Oh yeah, thank you. Yeah. So it gets interchangeable in the show, but it again, it's all there but the end. The end of the stock you. Ready. Where's my favorite and like what moment? They don't understand. OK, so this is what they choose to end the trailer. On OK, it's so. Weird. So not only is this in the trailer, this is what they end it on. So big red pops on the screen. I don't even know when they even interviewed. He's not even in this.
He's not in the camp. He's not in the show, right? So it just ends with him saying I'm Big Red, I'm Ashton's boyfriend and I'm bi. Everyone's face is just like. OK, but I love Ricky and Ash would look at each other and Ricky's like, they're like, good for him. Yeah, they're like, OK, sure, whatever. But so random and just like out of nowhere. But I love it. And I love that Ash was just like, oh, good for him. Yeah, it's like this cute.
Realize they're cured this year. Yeah, and they're just supportive of their friend, and I love that. But now I kind of want to watch an episode where all the characters watched the High School Musical, the musical, the series together and react to it. Because I. Feel like they saw this. They'd be like, what the hell? It'd be cute, but yeah. Anything else about season 3? That was season three season three's fun. And queer. Yes, it is. Yeah, yeah. It was what made me actually
watch a show. I bet. Excuse me? So I think that's it for this season. Yeah, but before we sign off, we need to rate this with our Lesbian Jesus Hydration Scale, which is a super scientific product of gay science, an accurate measurement for determining how valuable a piece of queer media is to the Queer Media Library. Why are we hydrating? Because queer media, like water, is essential for life and it keeps you fresh and young and
invigorated. So Caitlin, based on the Lesbian Jesus Hydration Scale scale one to 10, how much would you hydrate for High School Musical The Musical The Series, Season 3? 7 1/2. Good. I was going to say 7. Yeah, I think this has the most queerness I like. Ashland's journey was really good. You got Maddox and her drama, which was good.
Val Big is supportive. Ally Carlos is in there because he has, like the gay man stereotype, body type issues that were also discussed we discussed in another episode, but that happens here too. Big Red's random confession at the end, like, there's just a lot. I thought it was good and it sets up the next season to be queer also, which I appreciate personally. So and then it's not clear, but like the mental health was a big
thing. And this is the first season that felt like its own thing, so I appreciate that overall, so. Yeah, it gets better as it goes. I see some people say that after season one it goes downhill or like they should have end the show when Olivia Rodrigo left and I'm just like no. The show should have began when she left like she was annoying. OK, so if you made it this far in this episode, we want to
know. I'm going to give you a secret word that we want to challenge you to use in a comment or podcast review without looking up the spelling. That is the important part. You can't look it up. So today's secret word is SU Brett, and it means a high female vocal range or an actress in an opera with such a vocal range. How fitting. All right guys, let's test your spelling skills in the comments.
We will continue with our High School Musical, the Musical The Series Journey next time when we cover Season 4, but until then, hydrate for lesbian Jesus. And gay it up all over the place. Bye, bye.