HSMTMTS Season 1 | High School Musical: The Musical: The Series

Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy. I'm Bree. I'm Fiora. And I'm Caitlin. Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media. Representation matters, and we're here to talk about it. Cheers, queers. What's on the big gay agenda today, Fiora? Today we're talking about Caitlin's favorite show, High School Musical. The musical? The series? Woo. Woo. I have a second intro that I have been preparing. OK, ready. I am ready.

First there was the iconic High School Musical trilogy, and then there was High School Musical the Musical, which is actually called On Stage, I believe, and it's like the musical Broadway version. I don't think it was on probably. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Now we have High School Musical, the Musical, the series.

Now we aren't going to be able to cover everything that happens in the show, but we will talk about some of our favorite parts and things that stood out to us. And of course all the queerness, Yes. So if you haven't seen High School Musical The Musical, the series, don't worry about it.

We are changing up our format a little bit and so at the very beginning of this episode we are going to do a non spoiler review of the series so you can get a little taste of what it's like, how queer it is before you want to watch it. So we'll do that and then we will jump into all of the

spoilers. But don't worry, we'll let you know when we get there in case you want to, like, turn this off and go watch it. Which you should Which you should it is. It is something that is still streaming on Disney Plus. Yes, that is unfortunately true. I have references to things that are no longer streaming in here as well. Absolutely OK. So before we get into all the queerness, let's go through some housekeeping as the OR likes to call it apparently anyway, so.

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Yes, that's the only way to complete the Big Gay Agenda by making it easy. And super gay and super gay, yeah. OK, so now let's get into what this show is about. So this section has been blank for most of the time because I could not figure out how to explain this show. So we're going to go with the description of the first season because you you have to go season by season because it gets confusing. So the series set as the real life East High where the

original movie was filmed. Follows a group of students as they countdown to opening night of their school's first ever production of High School Musical. With meta references and some docu style elements, it's a modern take on the classic from 15 years ago. Yeah, I would like to add that it's Four Seasons total and I'm going to synapse The Four Seasons extremely quickly. Season one, the theater kids all meet each other and become

friends. Season 2, the theater kids are performing against a rival theater group. I don't know why there's balloons. Season four, Season 3, two weeks at summer camp, Season 4, some people are graduating. That's basically the whole show. OK, that's the only simple way of putting it. Also, if you're listening, when Fiora was talking about season 2, there was random balloons that popped up on her camera. So that's why she said I don't know why there's balloons.

Yeah, it's it's not really important, but yeah, that's basically the entire show. And yeah, it's a it's like a mockumentary style filming like The Office. It's something The Office made really popular, only unlike The Office, it's never explained why they're doing this as a mockumentary style. There's like a fourth wall break at some point where they're like, who the fuck are you guys? But, like, it's never actually explained.

And then it gets confusing in season three, where there's actually a documentary happening outside of the mockumentary. So, like, it gets wild. So yeah, if you're going to watch this and dive into it, Caitlin's advice is totally on point. Watch it season by season and it 'cause it builds in like the insanity of like the I told you that, don't. Start in the middle. You have to start at the beginning.

Get all ads. But they do talk about how crazy it is, like with the multiple different productions going on in Season 3. Yeah, it's confusing. But if you were to just jump in anyway, if you've been here for a while, you know about our hydrate for Lesbian Jesus scale at the end. We have a new scale for the beginning before we start with spoilers, and that's the Big Gay energy scale of how queer something actually is.

Now. It is a super scientific scale developed by the Big Gay Energy team. It's proprietary using gay science. Basically what we're going to do is essentially give you our rating of how valuable this piece of media is in the queer lexicon of media as we like kind of cover everything. So it'll be a scale of one to 10, like the hydration scale, but kind of give you an upfront idea of like what am I getting myself into for this piece of queer media.

If you haven't watched it yet and maybe are leaning towards it. Hydration scale will be at the very, very end, like in our last episode when we cover this. So like, don't worry, lesbian Jesus will be worshipped at the end. And as always, our scales are subjective to each. Member of Big Gay Energy, I believe, but this one is this one's highly scientific. So this, this one's scientific. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We scientific it that we're all different.

Do you have a number or are we just doing my number? No, we're each doing it, OK. I'm just wondering, that's not, it's not subjective, It's scientific. Yeah, each of us has their own number. Listen, we've all done our own research and then we're going to come to our conclusion of our experiment for the Big Gay Energy Scale. So, Caitlin, how much big gay energy does High School Musical The Musical the series, have

based on your gay science? OK, so I'll give you a little background with my science, but just to be upfront my I'll give you my credentials. I decided to give it a 7 and that's because the first season is quite straight. Had a little boring, but I'm getting into it later. But it does get gayer queer as it goes to where like most of the cast is queer by the end. I feel like. So that's something that is something. Especially for Disney. Yeah.

So OK, based on my so my initial study, I was going to give this A5 as the Big Gay Energy Scale. But I have since changed to a six, and my results of my experiment basically are that yes, there's queer, there's queer characters in the show from start to finish, including like, queer parents. Like one of the characters has a set of queer parents, and everything about it is normalized, which I think is important in terms of, like, when looking at quality queer

media. I have a my most of my issues with the show are the fact that it's a Disney production and we'll get into that. But overall, I think it's positive portrayal of queer people. They do avoid a lot of stereotypes, which I think is a good thing. And what made me really like up the scale a little bit is that taking my bias out of it. I think that this is a good piece of media for a younger

audience. Like, it doesn't totally vibe with me as a millennial who's like, I grew up with the High School Musical movies when I was in high school versus like this kind of thing. So like, it doesn't totally vibe with me. But I think that it's an important piece of queer media for like young people to have that like, deals with issues aside from like coming out, like there's there's some coming out, but it's like not a main focus. There's no like drama that's, I don't know.

I I feel like it's positive portrayals in a variety of different sets of queerness. I think there is room for improvement, like there's not a lot of like non binary characters, there's no trans reps. So there's like some holes. But overall I think it's done pretty well in terms of like the queerness of it and it is throughout from start to finish. So I would give it a six. Great. I'm glad that is over 5. So you kind of answered this, but.

So since there there is like a age gap between each of the hosts and so I wasn't sure what this answer would be. I So my question for you, Theor, is, have you ever seen the High School Musical movies and Caitlyn for that, I would say I am a millennial. Of course, I've seen the High School Musical movies. Like, that was part of being a millennial. Do I remember them?

No. I remember like 2 Gabrielle and Troy songs and that's about it. And the fact that Troy had a lesbian haircut is. So that's about all I remember. And I remember memes on Tumblr that still exist today of like it's going to be a Wildcat summer every summer that happens. So that's about all I remember I. Wasn't sure if it was like, I guess it would be high school movies since it's set in a high

school. But I was in 4th grade when I found out about High School Musical because people were appalled that I didn't know it. So I had to watch that and Hannah Montana and like, you know, actually assimilate. Is that the word into like the culture in my 4th grade class? So that's how little I was watching this stuff. But I did watch it the movies again for this. Episode as well. I'm very dedicated to this episode, absolutely, and that's why we're here.

OK, so now I'm going to we're just going to talk a little bit. Well, I'm going to because I love this show. I will tell you I the first thing I said about this is Jed. It's just not. It's not just about singing and dancing. Although I do love these aspects. It's not a show where like they burst in the song and like don't realize they're singing like that. Like the songs actually have a point. But it reminds me of my childhood. Like, the nostalgia definitely

helps the show get off. It's the ground because it's very, very slow in the beginning. Like it took me. I I stopped after the first few episodes and a friend had to tell me what happened since season three to get me to actually watch it. And I'm very glad for her to tell me that. So yeah. I I found it relatable cause like our high school participated in a theater competition like they do in season 2 but but ours was like peer reviewed and voted on rather than the organization

choosing winners. But it also heals my inner child because a lot of people in the show are not afraid to be themselves and you just see them find who they are. And I just really wish I was who I am now back then because like, I'm so comfortable with myself. And that's because of this podcast and the people I've met along the way. And I just, I feel like I could have done so much more in high school. But do we really? Does anyone know who they actually are in high school?

Because I feel like we change every single year. But I do. Yeah, Go when you're an adult, you still don't know who you are like. I like for changing. It's a myth that you know who you are ever like you just don't. You just the only thing you can like rely on is that shit's gonna change, which I like was a theme at the very end of the

show. And I was like, yes, that's real life coming from a Disney show when like, there's so many elements of this where I'm like, this is unrealistic and it's driving me crazy. But like that message at the end, I was like, yes, that's the most real thing that has happened on this show. I feel like season four is the most real out of They were just said fuck it, we're done. Let's drop truth bombs like and curse words. They bleep a lot of shit. I mean, they bleep it, leave it

in, who cares? Go for that PG rating or whatever anyway. OK, but I feel like I was a lot like Ashlyn in season one in high school 'cause I went to school with my cousin. Technically two of them, but that's a whole nother story. I only met the one once. Who was a year older and popular because everyone wanted her relationship with her boyfriend and I was just brought along everywhere there for her and not really seen.

But once I got into theater and dance more, my confidence began to grow and I found more people like me. So I just that brings me to my next note. I have a strong bias towards Ashlyn and Maddox. Just to be upfront about it, I didn't hear what you just said, said. Who would have guessed? Who? Who would have thought if you didn't get that by the end of this whole show? Yeah, OK, so spoiler free section, so we'll move. Past that, yes. So do you have anything to say

about it? This is not a show I would have watched independently. Nothing against the show. It's just that I, my high school theater drama show was Glee and I was traumatized by it and would not have watched anything in the genre because that was quite enough. Go listen to our Glee episodes if you want to unpack the trauma. But yeah, I was over it. And to be. Traumatized as an adult. That right? Like, I did that enough.

I do enjoy shows about theater. Like, I have all the honor and respect for people who do theater in high school. Whatever. So like Caitlyn, you're my hero for like doing it. It's something I always wanted to do but never had the confidence to actually do or time because I was playing sports like crazy. I wore my high school lacrosse shirt today because I don't have a theater get up like Caitlyn does. I. Literally had this in my closet and I'm like, I'm never going to wear this again.

So, like, this is the best time to do it. It is. There's never a bad time. But yeah, I so, like, I enjoy. But like for me, there's other shows I like better. Like for all it's bullshit. I like Glee because Glee is not trying to be. I don't know. Glee is just, it's a satire. It's not trying to like teach you life lessons. It's just a mess. And that's. I understand that and that's fine. And I find it entertaining. This had too much Disney shit in

it, where I was just like, why? It's just like the drama in it felt very fake in in a lot of not always, but a lot of the relationship drama was just like, this is forced. It's like the McGovern. It's like we need to have like drama here to move the plot. And I'm like, why? And it just feels very like out of nowhere and forced and I can't stand it. And then any of the drama is just like wholesome at the end and I'm like, what are you?

It's like it's just it felt very fake to me and a lot of aspects so which takes me as the viewer out of the show versus like Glee is just a mess and it feels more realistic of being a mess, but it's like it's not trying to be wholesome. It's like this is just life and this is drama and drama is messy. It's not wrapped up with a cute

bow at the end. So I would, I wouldn't have made it past the first season either only because like, so know that going into it. Because the first season for me is very it's like trying to be Glee, but it's trying to be wholesome Glee. So like, everybody is like a caricature. And I have actual issues with some of the characters who are portrayed as a caricature at the beginning, like, shame on you writers.

But yeah, once you get past it, like Season 2 again, it's still trying to be Glee, but it's like it's starting to come into its own as a show more. And then by season three and season four, it's its own thing. So like, personally, like, I would have just watched three and four and like, skipped one and two, 'cause they just feel too much. Like they're like wholesome Glee, which I don't. Want that I did not let the OR do that.

I was like, no, I I watched all of it to talk about it, but like three and four I think were were much stronger seasons because it becomes its own show at that point. But I will say the Disney plugging itself constantly drove me crazy. And at some point I felt like I was watching a Disney advertisement. And I hate that. Which season three it's It's three and beyond. It's it's three and beyond. Keeps doing it and it's really annoying. And so it just. I don't blame the writers.

I feel like that's Disney corporate shit. Because the point of this show is like the premise of it is to harken nostalgia back to the High School Musical movies which will grab the millennials who loved the movies and then setting it in a with Gen. Z characters will pull Gen. Z in. So I understand what they're trying to do, but it was like heavy-handed marketing at some point and I was like, this is really fucking annoying. I think they were just trying. To play too much into the meta.

Ness. Maybe, which is why they kept saying it. No, I think it's Disney plug. Like plugging itself. This is like corporate shit. And it felt really annoying after a while. I was like, please stop fucking saying Disney Plus every five seconds. Like, I understand Frozen is on Disney Plus, I get it like it's marketing is what it is and it just it was annoying. But it's not the writer's fault. It's it's nothing against the show.

I feel like it's a Disney corporate thing and I really don't like Disney because they're taking over the entertainment industry and I hate that. So it just it felt very heavy-handed and I did not like that. But with that being said, I thought the characters are very good. It is very it's everything is just wholesome and wrapped up with a nice bow because it's Disney, which I don't really love. I like messy characters because

that's more real life. But I think for teaching life lessons to kids this, this show is more geared towards that. And it's upfront about that. So like moving my bias from it. I think there's value to watching this show, especially for like way younger like Jen Alpha, watching this, I think it would be valuable, 'cause it does, it does handle, it does handle real issues and like kind of break it down and and they do a lot of, like the characters do, a lot of emotional talking.

Even the the male characters, which I think is really important. So I there are aspects of it that I think is really well done. It's just the Disney stuff is. Drives me crazy. That's fair. And to give more context for like, why I love this show. I'm the type of person who, like, will go back and watch shows from my childhood or like even current stuff. Just like mindless while I'm like on my phone or something. Just so like I'm not watching drama and being depressed all the time.

Yes. That's what I was thinking, but I was trying not to bring it up again. That's great. If I watch too much of that at once, I will get depressed. So then you just turn on shows. I wouldn't even just say this. I would be like more of the shows that are just like, you know, the slapstick comedy that are just like way too much, but they're good to watch when you're bored. OK, so I I think now we we should get into like talking about the characters.

So I mean, you could stay for the intro to the characters 'cause they're only in. I only put the season one descriptions up, but I would just go watch the. Show now. I mean, if you really want to take the Aura's advice and start at 3:00, but I would just get through the whole thing because I I do think it's worth it. Yeah. So we are basically entering spoiler territory at this point. This is your warning. So if you haven't watched it, turn this off, go watch it.

Then come back. If you're a spoiler hoe and you don't care, we don't slut shame on this podcast. So keep listening. We're about to get into all of the spoilers. Enjoy. Yeah, so. We're gonna just do a quick description of the season one characters right now. So Nene, played by Olivia Rodrigo, who I actually do not think of when I think of High School Musical. I 'cause I forget she's in it sometimes, but she is the lead character who the world revolves around in season one, forever

stuck in a love triangle. My description of Nene? She's Rachel Berry. If Rachel Berry took Xanax, that is who this character is. I. Love that you have your own description. OK, cool. All right. Next we have Courtney, played by Dara Renee. And I'm putting the actors names in it too, because I have a section later with fun facts and I use their real name, so just to give a sense of it. So Courtney is Nene's best

friend who loves fashion. I want to say more, but they don't give her much more in the first season. Courtney is the character I have the most problems with in the first season because they made her the stereotype sassy black woman and that was it. And that's racist. And that fucking pissed me the fuck off. Like that was her whole personality in season one. She becomes her own character later and is like really fucking smart and like on her way to Ivy League schools and shit.

But like in the first season, she's the sassy black woman and that fucking pissed me off. Yeah, who was there to just elevate Nene? And that was it. Like, it's fucked up. That's right. We have a whole section on it. Don't worry, that is my rant on that. Next we have EJ Putt, played by Matt Cornett, the star jock who is dating Nene at the start of the show and is really threatened by Ricky. He can be very insecure and he's used to being loved by all.

Yeah, basically he's like, I don't know, he's just toxic as fuck in the beginning and then becomes way too nice. It was like, he's like polar opposites by the end and I'm like, what is this they like? Everybody's polar opposites. No, it's like, well, they started off with Glee caricatures. They were trying to be Glee and then became way too wholesome at the end. And I'm like, is this character gross? Or they just go through a Disney transformation like it's very

annoying. He's a great example of that. Yeah, I think they did have some of his personal life things though that like kind of to justify this. But no, it's weird. OK, next we have Ricky, played by Joshua Bassett, Nene's best friend since Carton of Kindergarten. Oh my God, I can't talk kindergarten garden. He is part of the love triangle with Nene and EJ. And then go ahead. Though, and then EJ and Gina. Listen, you could also.

OK, you could breakdown the show by what musical they're doing or by who Ricky is chasing as a girlfriend because he's the lead male who always needs to be in a relationship with a woman, so that is also his personality is always chasing a girl. I refer to him as Knock off Troy Bolton though, 'cause that's all he is really. I first broke this thing, this whole showdown into relationships because the relationships are so heavy in the show. Like that's basically what it draws around.

And I that's why I like the storylines that aren't based on the, I mean, except one that we'll get into later. But I already told you my bias. So yeah, but I was just like. Talking about different things in each season would have been too confusing if we didn't break it down by season. Instead, so next we have Carlos, played by Frankie Rodriguez. He is unapologetically himself and stays true to him even if it doesn't get him any friends. And this is especially true in

season one. He becomes the student choreography and finds his people and boyfriend in the drama club. I love him. That's it. He's great. Next we have Sev. Or Sebastian, played by Oh my God, Joe Serafini. And this is the first character I wrote the description for. And this is all I could think of. A gay farm boy who just wants to play Sharpay. Seb is the best boy and the writers do him dirty in later season.

Yes, but he is the best boy. And next we have Ashlyn, played by Julia Luster. Tony nominated Julia Lester OK E JS this OK I the description that I had to unfortunately write for E JS cousin who doesn't have a lot of confidence in the beginning but gains it once she isn't being used as a plot device for EJA. Good songwriter yeah that tracks. I this character is good from start to finish, but again like Courtney is just a Macguvin.

Like is is somebody for one of the leads to have conversations with and not a real person. Yeah, it's it's quite annoying. That's why I said that I relate to her, 'cause like she's just there for her cousin in the beginning and it's just she's there's so much more to her now. We go to Gina, played by Sophia Wiley. She is the New Girl with an attitude who is out for blood after not getting the lead in

the musical. She will stop at nothing to get Nene out of the show and is a fantastic dancer. Gina is the love child of Santana and Britney. Let me explain. Let me explain. Season one. She is Santana Lopez. Like would cut a bitch to get the lead. That is season one, Gina. Then by the end she's Britney because she's oblivious to social cues, has the biggest part on the planet. That is who that character is. Basically, she is Santana and then turns into Britney.

OK, I love your description of her. Lastly, for the initial character descriptions, we have Big Red played by Larry Saperstein. He is Ricky's best friend and biggest supporter. He is always there for him when he needs someone to talk to. Also a great Tapper. So he's basically Ricky's character, Pawn. I love Big Red. Also, he's pretty consistent, honestly, as a person from start to finish. Again, we'll to get into the last season thing that happened, which is a little weird and odd.

But anyway, yeah, writers did him dirty like Seb, but I I like his character overall. Like he's just, he doesn't feel like he has like a big heart and stuff, but doesn't feel like he went through a Disney transformation and like suddenly has a good heart. Like he always had one from the beginning. He was always super supportive and correct. He's like the ideal good. Guy, he's a good guy. He's the second best boy. He's the that is the best boy so.

That's the best. OK, That's the best, boy. So let's get into season one. And I mean, yeah, we've all both mentioned that season one is not our favorite. I don't think the OR likes it one bit, but there, there we have some positive and negative things to say. But just just keep going with us because we have to talk about it all. So we have the first instance of queerness in the very first episode, very early on, and it's just casually mentioned that Nene has two moms.

And I love that it's never a big deal and and it's just normal and like they don't be like, Oh my God, you have two moms. Like, I feel like they could have done that and made it a big thing. But like, it's normal and I I love that, 'cause we don't, we've never seen actually good luck. Charlie, I think had. A queer set of parents, But this one's like the Leeds parents. Yeah. So to have that in a Disney show be normalized, I think is a positive thing.

Yeah, period. And then Nene does meet her sperm donor in season 3. Yeah, I skipped her after a while. I was so annoyed with her, I would just skip her anytime she's on screen. I skipped this whole plotline. And I have to say, it's very fair because it took me to like, I've watched this four times in the past, like two months. Three months and I've just started liking Nini and poor Olivia.

This is her second Disney show. The first show made me not like her at all because that show is so crazy and weird and stupid. Sorry if you like it. I mean, I don't know. You like what you like. Like I like the show. This isn't the Ora's cup of tea. Whatever. But when she meets him, they don't. They just portray it like he's getting to meet her. Like it's not like, oh, I'm now your parent too. Or like I want you to be in my life.

Like they just make it a normal thing and she gets to just talk to him and decide how much she wants to see him and stuff, which I like, OK, so I was really, I was grabbing for the queerness in the season, so. We're going to jump to Seb and Carlos. I'd hope to love them. Yeah, they're, they're. I mean, of course they're the our only really queerness in this season, and I don't know, I feel like homecoming. They're the only they're the

only queer couple. Yeah, In this season, like you just mentioned, there's other queerness, but they're the only queer romance in the first season. Put it that way. OK, but they're very cute. Yes they are. But I don't think that this episode was that cute because. But it is like the gayest thing we get so far. Just because. I mean like Seb doesn't show up till the very end of homecoming and Carlos is sitting there very sad because he's not there and

hasn't texted him. But when Seb finally shows up it. That is a very cute moment though, because Ashlynn's like. I see someone who makes you happy. That's actually the Season 3 scene, not the scene. They see him across the auditorium and after they're done dancing and so Seb, they hug. I'm not explaining this well, hold on. But Seb does explain to Carlos that. They lost one of the cows, which is why he couldn't show up earlier, which is fair.

And they didn't have cell Oh my God, reception in the barn. But and then they slow dance and everything is happy. OK, but like the whole thing is cute because like Carlo at the begin. So this is the homecoming episode. I honestly like this episode because of the two of them because in the beginning when Carlos asks out Seb, it's also very cute. Just the asking him out part is really cute. And then like of course he thinks he stood him up because Disney manufacturers relationship drama.

Like all the drama in the show is just relationship based, which is just Mcgovern's. It's just like Oh no, we have to have tension. But at the end it's happy like you said, which is what drives me nuts about this show. It's always like oh yay. So, like, for me, all the drama in the show is so low stakes, I can't even get invested in it because I'm like, it's Disney. I know they're going to make it

happy at the end. So it doesn't actually mean anything when you're watching it because it's like, going to be happily resolved like this. The other part about this I like. So while, like the quote drama is happening where Carlos is like, oh, am I going to get stood up? Like, is he a shame to come out with me and blah, blah, blah. There comes a part where he's like, I still want to dance. So he gets encouraged to kind of like, go on the dance floor and he's kind of like dancing by

himself. And then Ashlyn sees him and she's like, I'm going to dance with you. You shouldn't have to dance alone. And like, Seb eventually shows up. But I like that part too, because the bigger theme about this show is the friendships you make that last a lifetime.

And so I like that point as well, 'cause I think that's more important than the romantic relationships, because if this show teaches you anything, romantic relationships come and go, but like, your friend group is more important, really at the end of the day, 'cause they're there for you when the relationship inevitably blows up. So I thought that was even more important to this episode. And like, we find out later, like, Ashlyn is also queer, so

at this point she doesn't know. So it's like queer solidarity too. And you like, put it all together. So I thought that was really sweet and I love that part of this. I do love that Carlos had the confidence enough to like, you know what? I'm just gonna go out there and dance for myself and have fun. Yeah, totally. It is his problem. And I'm like, yeah, glad he did that. And like, again, there's no asexual Rep in this because it's Disney.

They would never do that. But I think it's important to show the the power of non romantic like bonds, which is what this shows. It's like we can have a good time platonically together. It doesn't have to be romantic to enjoy your prom. So I like that. Aspect. And then also it's Courtney's song that she's singing throughout the whole thing and she kills it. It's called Born to Be Brave and it's basically played in every single season.

Because it just because they're all born to be brave. Nice. OK, so another theme that I saw throughout the whole show is be yourself. I've talked a little bit about it already, but in the Thanksgiving episode, it's very apparent. And I like with Carlos, like I felt for Carlos in the Thanksgiving episode because he brings this huge board game that

he made. From the High School Musical movies and he was so worried his friends would judge him and they were just so excited to see this board game. And if you if you look at the screenshots of the board game there the different tiles one of them is caught smoking on the roof. Go to the principal's office, another one is Brainiacs 1. Go to I thought that said detention. Go to decathlon.

Something for party. So like the whole game is just like so well thought out and it's just like very complicated. And there's four different categories that they play that you can play and one of them is called Looking For Glee. So, I mean, they're literally naming the show that they're trying to be. But Carlos talks about how much that he loved that show and EJ is like, it still holds up. I'm like. Yes, but I mean, the jokes are pretty, but whatever, That doesn't matter right now.

But the response from Carlos, he says. Oh yeah, I thought you guys were going to judge me. And it's just the it's just so cute that everyone was supporting him and he just felt like I found my people finally, 'cause we see in a later season that he was getting bullied right before the show started. And that's why Miss Jen took him under her wing, basically, and made him the choreographer in her second hand. And so as I was thinking about this for this section, something math in here.

It was also mentioned that Carlos had this game for 10 years, so he made it 10 years ago. He is 15 in season one, which means he was five years old when he made this board game. That's completely elaborate. And was watching Glee, which is not good for your development? No. But that explains his like character when he starts. He's trying to emulate Glee. What character do you think is five year old Carlos's favorite 5 year old Carlos? Probably Kurt or Rachel Berry.

Honestly, I. Didn't even think it'd be her name because of the dancing. But I was thinking. I was thinking either Rachel, just because. She like wants to be on Broadway and he has a few lines cause like Mr. Mazzara tells says in one of the scenes don't you have somewhere you need to be And he just says Broadway and I mean but that's Kurt too. So yeah I think either and Carlos isn't as toxic of a human being as racial.

That's true because who is? So I think that he's more Kurt cause Kurt is more of a friend to people and like not as horrible. But I think he's feel like a 5 year old. Carlos would also like Sue for some reason. I just feel like. I feel like 5 year old Carlos would like Kristen Chenoweth when she shows up. Because she's Chenoweth. Sorry. Because she's basically Miss Jen. So that's also that. Because that's who that character is obviously based off of. OK, well you brought that up.

They did play the same character. I know. OK, well, I know that Kristen Chedoweth is the original Glinda from Wicked. Like it is the same character. Like, that's what I mean. This, this show in the first season is very much just Glee two point O, but nice. Yeah. Yeah, I want to mention some. Unless you have more about Carlos. There's something I want to mention in the Things We Like section, since that's what I think where we're at. It's not queer, but I like and

dislike it at the same time. But it because it we're on the Glee compare. I literally my frame of reference for this particular show is just Glee because it's it's high school theater basically. So I think they're very comparable and I think that's what they're it's supposed to be in the first season anyway. So one thing I want to mention that I liked that was different is one of the tension points kind of throughout this show, but very much in the first season is like robot club versus

drama club. And so you have the two teachers kind of like being snarky with each other. And at some point the the robot club teacher tries to sabotage the theater teacher. And all of this again, just drama for drama's sake. And so if you look at it like on, on the surface, this drama is very much like. Teacher V teacher club V club. And it's supposed to mirror Glee. Cause in Glee the the tension was the cheerleaders versus the like the Glee club or the drama

club in this instance. But what I like about this version of that drama is it's basically like outcast group versus outcast group, essentially versus Glee. The classic, like high school drama is usually like the top of the food chain, popular group versus the bottom of the food chain. So there's a lot more bullying and shit that happens because of the hierarchy of high school, quote, UN quote. And so that made it very unbalanced and fucked up what happens in Glee, like real life.

But here they're more like on the same. Level, which is an interesting twist on that, but it's also kind of sad because it's it's all, it's like 2 minority groups fighting each other for pennies basically to keep their clubs going while the football team slash Cheerios are swimming in pools of $100 bills, if that makes any sense.

So I thought that was an interesting twist on like high school Inter Dynamics. And like, it's sad that, like, those teachers are pitted against each other because really at the end of the day they're both trying to, like, support their outcast kid groups. But I like that twist on like, traditional high school shows and high school drama. I did like that. I feel like it was very much one sided though.

Like Mr. Mazzaro was always trying to get rid of Miss Jen, but Miss Jen was just trying to like, I mean eventually she was just like, I don't really care about robotics. I mean, she does try to help him in the Thanksgiving episode at in the beginning and then he's like reluctantly helping her. Yeah. No, I mean, like, yeah, when you like break it all down, but like to have that be like the cause.

Usually in a high school show like this, there's like one group against the other group and it's usually a popular group versus an unpopular group. Here I like that it's two unpopular groups. And that's a tension point. So like there there is no instance in the show of like the football team making fun of the drama kids, which happens in every fucking show in high school, basically about this. So I like that they removed that element and it's just people on

the same level. And that's kind of like a drama point. It's not a main focus, but I like that. That twist was interesting to me. Yeah. Also we have the same thing from Glee like Ashlyn is also in robotic hub. So we have the crossover too as well. One of the things that I loved and I mentioned it a little bit earlier is that.

They were open to gender, bending the roles in High School Musical so little Seb wanted to play Shar Pei really bad, and Miss Jen originally thinks that he wants to audition for Ryan because that is what we're used to. And Carlos mentions that he thinks he'd rather play Shar Pei and Miss Jen just like loves it immediately and was like, OK, let's do it. And so Seb gets the role and he kills it. His outfit for Shar Pei Pei is

just amazing. It's like metallic pants, this blazer, and he has this face makeup that's like this. I don't know if it's a lightning bolt or whatever, but it's like a pink strike on the side of his place. David Bowie. OK, that that's a that's a good So David Bowie and me Shar Pei. It's it's great. It's also queer. So that works. Yeah. So yeah, I do like that aspect as well. And Seb is just the best boy, so I'm glad he got to be happy in his role. Yeah, yeah, OK. I got some other.

Another thing that I really like about the show that I thought was a funny ongoing thing is that they kept an ongoing joke is that they kept referring to High School Musical as a period piece. And I thought that was hilarious because I do that in real life too. And I'm like, oh, is it set in the 90s? It's a period piece, so. I mean, technically it is like we don't use the same phones anymore.

No, yes. But like in back in my day like a period piece was like black and white movies versus like this is something that happened like High School Musical happened like 10 years ago. It's it's not that much out of the realm of like like, like, you know, So I just thought that was funny, like hyperbole. And they kept doing shit like,

oh, that movie. It's like, I don't know, like basically it's basically making fun of millennials and calling us old is what it is. When it's like shit that happened 10 years ago, basically, yeah, so ongoing joke to make fun of millennials, basically. But I thought it was funny and a little annoying because then I feel old and I'm like, should I be watching this show? It is weird to think that 20 years ago was not the 90s. Yeah, my brain is not wired for that.

Anything else you like before we get to the Dislike section of this season? Let's see. Nope. OK, sounds great. All right. So you covered, you covered most things. So, like, I don't have a lot of notes outside of like, you basically covered everything in your notes. So I have like little comments. That's how I feel. When you do feel I'm like she wrote. Everything. What am I gonna say? But yeah, I I've been working on this for two months. I have been making sure that I

am fully prepared for this show. Not that like I I'm always make sure that I'm prepared. But like, this has been my focus. Caitlin's passion project, basically. So I'm excited. We're finally getting to hear all, like all, of your thoughts and feelings about it, because that's what this show is all about. Yeah, not High School Musical, but like, our podcast. Yes, because we get to geek out together and it's the best part of the week, yeah.

OK, so the first dislike is my biggest dislike of everything like, not any show. The love triangles, can we please get rid of them? Like, so we have Ricky, Nene and EJ, then we have Ricky, Gina and EJ. Like we don't even like Branch out of the love triangles. Like, it's the same people, just a different girl. Yeah, it's always Ricky. Girl or girl and guy or girl and

girl. Because then later there's this weird thing that lasts a minute with like the rival drama girl from the other school that lasts literally two episodes. And it's just like, why? It's just like Ricky is the character that can't be single or not have a love interest. It's like he's the compact guy and it's really annoying.

And like I've said already, like this show operates on manufactured relationship drama, and I hate shows that do that because there's no point to it. At the end of the day, it's just to have relationship drama. Yeah, basically. So, like, no care. So if you get a couple on this show, it's not likely they're going to be happy together. First of all, they're in high school, so that's not realistic to begin with. But the show is constantly trying to, like, start relationship drama.

And I hate how they start the relationship dramas because like with Nene and Ricky, it's just like, I guess that's in Season 2, but like, the drama is dumb. Like, I don't know. I just it just feels very fake because they're trying to, like, push it. Nene and Ricky's in the beginning is that Nene tells her, tells Ricky that she loves him. Throw in a song that she posts on Instagram. It's so stupid. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And then gets sad when he doesn't say it back.

I'm like, well, what is? What is this? And cares breaks up with her because she's going away for a month or they on a break or something like that, Like Ross and Rachel Lesson. The other thing, the thing I have a bigger problem with in the show than the love drama, is that these children don't understand time. Like, it's like everybody's operating on lesbian time in the show, OK? Because they're like, you're going to be gone for a month that's literally forever.

And it's like, no, it's not. And this bitch is coming right back to school and you're going to see her every day. Why are we freaking out about this later in season 3? The whole thing is they're like, wow, the summer's ruined and it's like you're on a two week camp. Trip. Also, I don't know why Nene was gone for a month yet. The camp's only two weeks. I don't know. I didn't watch her plotline at all. I don't know, like, time doesn't

make sense. Like, because the whole drama in season three is like, I can't believe my the summer's ending and it's like, you're at camp for two weeks, Summer's three months. Like, why is this? You're like, if this two week period can't work for our relationship, that means we're doomed. I'm like, it's fucking two weeks. This isn't real life. Like what? These kids have no cost at that time, which like maybe that is a teenager thing. Like, you really just don't,

'cause you don't have. I mean, your life outside of school, school is very like, regimented. It's like you have this many weeks and then the semester ends and this many weeks and then the semester ends and then this many weeks for summer. And it's like this constant pattern, but like, the kids have no concept of time and it's ridiculous and it's just they use that. The writers use that to create drama and they're like, it's ending and it's like, it's a week, like, what is wrong with

you? Like, what the fuck? It's so weird and annoying And I'm like, she's yelling, right? Back. They do the rest of this. Who cares? So stupid, but that's what I'm saying. We're like the stakes in the show are just non existent to me, the viewer, and I'm like, what am I watching? You're trying to make me like, care about this plot. That is just nuts. Also, they they didn't write the characters as well. Like, they're just so annoying. No Like, yeah, big dislike.

I know you're going to get into one character in particular, but the character development in season one in particular is just feels. Everybody feels forced because every single person starts off as a toxic caricature who's very one-dimensional, who's based off of a Glee character, and all of them are toxic. So like to me the beginning, the show is just as toxic as fuck. It's like the energy while trying to wrap a bow on it and make it wholesome.

Like, Miss Jen is like Sue but loves drama and it's just like the drama department. So she's like very everybody's hyper competitive and toxic. Like Gina's super toxic. And I'm like, what am I watching? I feel like I'm watching wholesome Glee. And if I'm going to watch Glee, I want it to be Glee and be funny and shit. And I'm like, this is weird anyway. But all of the characters. I have a problem with season one, period. It's just. Weird.

My solution for the love triangles is that they make the crack ships that people have a reality and put EJ and Ricky together and Gina and Yanni together because one would be more queer and two, let's be real, like the the the triangles are going that way. Like maybe EJ and Ricky just like each other and that's why they keep going after the same girl. Yeah, maybe he does. Ricky does drive all the way to see EJ in college there, so I mean that tracks. Yeah, they they have some great

conversations. If they would just stop using the word brother together, yeah, we don't. They're, they're. Overcompensating bro bro. I want an episode where Carlos hits his head on something and creates this alternate reality where being queer is the norm and just the relationships are together and. It'd be very, very fun. And gay and queer. There is a there is a movie. I got like halfway through it. I don't think I finished it because I don't remember.

But there is a movie called Where the World Mine where this guy has the basically the power to make people gay. And it it is exactly this where it's like then being gay is normalized because everybody's gay. And yeah, it's great. OK, cool. Let's often go watch that. And then another love triangle that there is, that is Miss Jen Rookie step. Oh my God, no. The other thing you can mark the show the season by is what man is in love with Miss Jen?

Because the whole show like she's another one who's not allowed to be single or not allowed to not have a love interest. Like, there's always men in love with her and it's just like, what are we doing? Like, let the woman just be why does she need a man? She always has multiple men at at every point of the show that are interested in her. She's the Ricky of the adults, basically, is what I'm saying. I mean, it's not her fault that everybody loves her, no, but it is the writer's fault.

They keep writing this the same thing over and over again. Yes. Yeah, it does. It does turn into that again because you think you're out of it and then oh. The triangles but. Look, here's more men and it's like, OK, I get it, can we move on? They do let Nene grow a little bit. She she ends up with no one. So there's that leaving, which is what I wanted, 'cause she was. Fucking annoying.

OK, this is nothing against Olivia Rodrigo, but let's get into Nene's character development, which is None. Can we also just start with Nene? I have a problem with the leads in this show because again it's it's very much season one is trying to be some weird crossover between Glee and High School Musical. The the first movie, that's what it's trying to be.

So it's like you have the toxic elements from Glee in every character and then the wholesome shit with like High School Musical. So very much Ricky and Nene are basically knock off Troy Bolton and Gabriella basically with a Glee twist. But I have a problem with the casting of the two of them because while the show has progressive elements in it and stuff, you very much just casted 2 classically beautiful people who are thin into the roles of

the leads. And in a show that's centered around like singing and shit, she is not the best singer on this show. Like, why are we casting these two people in the leads? It's just like you're conforming to stereotypes with the two of them that I have a problem with. The. The period. Full stop. Yeah. So yeah, it's it's hard with season one because it's basically it revolves around the three of them.

It's supposed to be an ensemble show, but it's not really 'cause everyone else is just a backup for these two of the classically beautiful people who are all thin. Which is why the later seasons are better. That's what I'm saying. When it gets into its own and we get rid of Olivia Rodrigo and gets better, I'm sorry. Olivia I just. I feel like I feel bad say that, but like she really was not given a chance.

That character was terrible. Like, I honestly like the moms thing was cool, but other than that, Nene is the actual worst. Like I can't stand that character at all. I mean, they write her really whiny and annoying. And she's she's literally focused on boys until she starts writing more music and is like, oh, so these boys mean nothing to me. But also like, again, like we use like the people of color to like, uphold. Like, but like I hate that Courtney is used to prop up

Olivia Rodrigo's character. I fucking hate that more than anything. I mean, then all the diverse characters are there to prop up Ricky and EJ, the white guys, like it's it's very annoying. It is also Nene really only thinks of herself in season one. Yes and Oh yes.

And also, like even within the three of them, when Ricky was having a hard time with his parents splitting up at home and he was just trying to find a place to go for the night, Nene couldn't get over her own issues to see that Ricky needed to be somewhere. And she was just so wrapped up in relationship drama that she can't even see. Like, the person who she used to love is like having issues.

The person she allegedly knows so well because they've known each other since forever, yet you can't read that person for some reason when they're actually going through something. There's that. But then when we get to Season 2 and we get to, I almost call them Troy, we get to like, when they kind of break up. Finally, like their drama starts because essentially like Ricky starts putting his bullshit onto her.

So like the roles reverse in season 2 and like, that's why they break up. So again, like, those characters don't make sense for like, what you wrote them to be like because allegedly, like, they, they've known each other forever. And there's like, oh, all these like, inside jokes and like, I know you so well. And then, like, when we get to the crux of it in the show, it's like they don't know each other. And I'm like, what are you guys doing with these characters? It's very weird.

There's a whole book. About them before the show, it doesn't translate. There's too much focus on them, yes agreed. Also, another thing that I really hate is the full. It's full of jealousy. Like it's not even relation, just relationship. It's of course it's EJ and Ricky being jealous of each other because you know that that goes on like the whole time because it's there's a girl involved all the time. But also Gina is jealous of Nini.

I really do not like Gina's character in the first season either, because, I mean, she's Santana, but she's not funny. Like, I'm not. I don't like, Oh yeah, they don't. They don't give her. Comedy, right? She's it's like, it's she's Santana, but she's not funny. So I do. I did not care about this. I still don't care about Gina, even the whole time, 'cause I was just like, why do I care

about this character? There's nothing entertaining about her, like if you're gonna make her toxic, make her funny, like, but it's not funny. It's just annoying. See I I. Liked her more because I knew her. As an actress going into the show, 'cause I watched her in another show, but I do, I do like that she changes. And when she's nicer, she's better. I just wish she was the lead from the beginning. You know what? Yeah, I would have preferred her as the lead to Olivia Rodrigo.

Like, not actors, but like the characters there. She's a better lead and a more compelling lead to have. Like a woman come in and be set up as the lead, as somebody, because she's the outsider. So to have her come in and be like the lead, it would have been way better than just having like this established crap with like Nini and. Yeah, have this story be a background story. Yeah. Like, who cares?

Like, if you're going to make it on the play, make it about, like, Gina upsetting the, you know, the score of high school. Exactly. Like that would have been a more compelling storyline. And yeah, have her start out being toxic and then, like, she becomes basically a Disney Princess by the end. Like, that's her arc. But it would have been better if she was like more upfront in the beginning versus just Santana. That's not funny.

Yeah, I just, I still love her, just not it's season one is rough and if you're I know we're still in the middle of this, but just keep hanging in with us. We have to get through the stuff 'cause it's important to talk about the stuff that's not working as well as like what's good in a show. And I have to ask based off of Gina, like, is high school theater always this toxic in terms of like, because her, her whole thing in the beginning is like, she wants to be the lead.

I'll do anything it takes to be the lead. Like it seems like they're trying to like, also show the reality of like acting because you have like 100 people going for the same role. So there there is a cutthroat element to it. So like is it like this in a high school theater? Is my question where there's like. Two people going for it. A lot of times there's more than two actually. Like, so usually there's not usually.

But like, I know of at least one instance where there's someone like people don't like who has too much of a big personality and they get good roles and then they're like, they don't work as hard and all that. It's just it can be like this, but it can also be the found family thing. So it just depends on your group because I mean high school and then also like the summer camp theater shows and like regional

is like different slightly. But yeah, there's there's always going to be the drama because it's it's a lot of work and then like you're like mentally exhausted after days and then people there's fighting unfortunately. So yeah, that's that's also a good point to bring up. Yeah, it just seemed like it was more so a commentary on cause, like that's what Glee was being a satire of like essentially like the toxic culture in just entertainment.

Because there's one role and there's a lot of people that want that role and need that role to keep moving. So I mean. There's a cutthroat element to it and a hyper competitiveness to it that can turn toxic. You know what I do like that because for females I bring this up later is there's not a lot of female roles in shows.

There's way more guy roles and that's why you don't have to like that's why Ricky got the lead cause like you don't have to be amazing as a male to get a good role because there's way more. So females are pitted against each other for these roles. And yeah, it's really, it's just this really sucky situation. And when you're in high school, you don't have that many opportunities to play.

And especially if like there's somebody who like, always gets the lead and like the politics of each school will be different as well. And if you have the same directors each year, it's different. And I know in my school we, I did summer shows at another company and those people actually ended up coming into my school. They were their director, choreographer and costumer. So all three people I worked with the summer previously were in this as well.

So obviously I was OK because I knew all these people already. But so it sucks for the people who weren't there. I mean, it's not like I got a huge role because one, I don't look the type of normal people, which is something else we get into later. Yeah, which is my problem with the needy. Yes, unfortunately they they do play into like the typical things happening in season one. I hate it. Anything about theater, before I go on to the point that really pisses me off.

Not really going all right, so something that I really do not like about children's shows. And I I've mentioned that I still do watch them say like, I want to know what's going on. Is kids having to take care of the parents. Parents are always played like idiots and that they don't know what they're doing. I mean, like, sometimes that is true, but kids shouldn't see that. Like, they're the ones who should be taking care of the

parents. Like if their parents sucks, like it's not your job to clean clean up after them or make sure they go to work. They get somewhere on time and I'm tired of them portraying it like that. And yeah, to me it's like they're trying to, they're trying to like tell stories from the kids perspective in a Disney show, which makes sense, like even Miss Jen is very surface level because it's from the child's perspective all of this.

So yeah, like the relationship drama with the in the families, it's from the kids perspective. So the kid feels that sense of responsibility, feels like my my parents and they're teenagers. They're like my parents, an idiot. They don't know anything. So it's like the the parents are caricatures because you're seeing it from the teenager's point of view, which pisses me off.

And it makes it feel fake to me because I'm like this is not real life versus like if you go watch Heart Stopper, which is a basically a high school show where the parents are actually adults. And like the it's still told from the child's point of view, but it's more realistic because the adults are actually adults. They're not weird. I'm like, how does Ricky's dad pay bills? He seems so fucking stupid. Like, how how does he hold a job? Like this Man seems wildly

confident just in life. Like, what is this? Yeah, it's annoying. And then it gets into scenarios that I also hate in children, shows where the kids have too much power, where, Gee, at one point, like, I'm just going to stay here and live with my friend and I'm like, on what you, in what planet will the mom that has dragged you around the country so many times finally relinquish?

The well-being of her daughter to strangers and like where was that scene where we have to like set her up living with Ashley? Like on what planet is that? Just like I'm just expect that they had a scene like an off camera like because I don't think that she was just like, I'm staying here. I think it was how does that. Go down and then we beat her mom later. And I'm like this woman that you're portraying to me. I would never. But she would never relinquish her daughter to strangers.

Like, that's just out of nowhere. But again, it's like way too unrealistic where the children have too much power over the adults that it's just it's this is not real life. Like, there's no way this happens without, like, show me the conversation, because it doesn't make sense for like the characters you set up. Like this is really crazy. And it's just a plot device. The parents are plot devices for the children. I inferred more into that situation, I guess.

So as someone who moved a lot growing up, I feel like maybe her mom, like, even though she's like very protective of Gina and like, make sure she wants to succeed, I think she feels really bad that she had to move Gina around a lot. And I mean, like, you saw, like, how distraught she was when she was told that they had to leave again. So I'm thinking that maybe she's like, OK, well, if you're very happy here, let's try it. OK, true.

But for Gina's mom, the character we've set up, it would make way more sense for her to be like, you don't want to move around a lot? Cool. Go live with your grandma. Like, why was she living with a stranger like that? That's that's wild and doesn't make any sense to me. Like Ashlyn and her family are strangers. Like, what the fuck? Like, at what point does that happen? Where? I don't know. I just. That was crazy.

And I needed a scene for me to actually believe that because Exo Kitty did this shit too, where they're like the daughter has so much say over all of these, like, expensive decisions on a whim. And it's like, in what universe does this just happen overnight? Like, no. Like what? Children don't make the financial decisions like that for the family. Like it's just. It gives the kids way too much power. That's unrealistic.

And maybe that's the point. It's like a childhood fantasy of just like, yeah, if I want to live with my friend for months, my parent, my mom, will just let me. My mom that's been protective of me and dragging me across the country instead of leaving me with a stable relative who's related and reliable for her. Like, it doesn't make sense. And that drove me crazy. And it's just mom's a plot device. It was annoying.

I just, I think it would be nice to see more healthy relationships between parents and like the kids in these shows, because I think that's what kids need. They it's like, what does a healthy relationship look like? What does a healthy relationship between people in relationships in high school look like, 'cause we obviously did not see them? But I think Courtney with her mom in this show is a really good example of this 'cause I think they did so well.

That is a normal relationship between a mother and a daughter. And it's like they were friendly with each other, but Mom was a mom, Mom was an adult, and Courtney was a child. I think that the intention of showing like, yeah, kids can have a say is great, but you're setting unrealistic expectations for children by portraying the parents as complete dumbasses that the child can walk all over versus Courtney and her mom.

Who are more mother portrayed as a mother daughter situation Like like the way Nick and his mom is is in heart stopper. Like, that's more realistic than most of the parents of, like, children dynamics. And Courtney didn't have to give her mom a pep talk and her mom was always giving her those talks. And that's.

I really love that. But I think it's a good time to mention that Courtney's mom is played by Dora's real life mom, Kimberly Brooks. So yeah, she got to have her real mom on set with her and she joined Instagram just to talk to people after the show aired. I know it's really cute. And they're really close in real life as well. Like, her mom goes to all the press tours with her. Whenever she goes somewhere to film, she goes with her.

So it's just really, it's really sweet to see that that bond is real. Oh, that's sweet. OK, so now we're going to get into another section that we basically talked about. Already. But Yep, I'm going to let you or rant some more. I don't. I don't have more to rant about it. Basically how they wrote Ashlyn and Courtney. Basically how they wrote all the characters to prop up the conventionally attractive people. I have a problem with.

Courtney is the worst though, because they set her up to be a racial stereotype and I hate that All of her conversations with Nini are just about Nini and she's just the sassy black girl and that's fucked up in this day and age. Do not do that shit. Make her a person. I feel like I saw an interview somewhere where she was saying like how she liked that she wasn't that. So I don't know if that was after season one or what, because it's definitely stereotypical in season one.

No, it is. It is a racial stereotype in season one, for sure. They can be like, well, it's not that she, you know, blah blah, blah, or it might have been. That is a that is 100% a stereotype and Disney just played into it. And like had the had the roles been reversed? And Courtney? Was the main and like Nini was the friend. It wouldn't read that way because that's not a stereotype, but like that is who she is in the very beginning.

Courtney becomes an actual person once we get less Nini. I I think it also might have been her or Monique talking about Taylor, of how Taylor was in the science and that she wasn't just a sassy black friend, like she was actually really smart and stuff. It also could just be Disney being like, hey, get out there and say this is OK. Because it's fucking Disney. They're not. They don't have the best track record for shit. So that was my that's my perception of that and it's it

pissed me off the most. I find it interesting that the so, the wikis, they're written by people, but the the description that was written for Courtney says in season one, she is mainly only Nene's sassy friend. She is very supportive and is always there for her friends, despite the fact that Nene is rarely there for her. Correct. She's just a stereotype. She is the sassy black friend. Which is fucked up. So during the homecoming episode, and this is just like

specifics of like examples. Both of them have their own issues with, of course, Nene and the the Gina and EJ thing. Or is it EJ? Or is it Ricky? It's Ricky. I don't even know. It's EJ and then it's Ricky. It's all four of them, OK, right. Anyway, it doesn't matter. And then Courtney is upset because Tanya Friedman is being a bitch at the costumes and stuff. So Nene listens for like 2 sentences and then is still back

on her own stuff. And then she also thinks about going to school in Denver and then she casually brings it up to Courtney and she doesn't realize how much that affects Courtney. However, I don't think that Courtney should be like a reason that she stays either. But it's just another example of her like just thinking about how things affect her and she does become. I mean, I know we keep saying that Season 2 is becomes more their own, but Nene becomes more supportive in Season 2.

It's just a shame that they had to send her away for her to become supportive. Like for anybody else to have screen time, they had to send her to a different state. That's what I mean. They had to, physically. Remove this character for it to get better and like that should tell you something like this character's a problems to get rid of this character. Or like, give her less lines. She's the problem. She becomes smaller and too

much. And I think at that time, Olivia Rodrigo was becoming a bigger name. Olivia Rodrigo, yeah. So in a way, I'm kind of glad because it made her. Go. It made the show better. She was annoying as fuck as a character. Like good. Go away and then likewise, Ashlyn is always having to deal with EJ drama because it's EJ like. That character was also very, very annoying, and she only got her own storyline when it revolved around the guy.

Big Red, But I wasn't upset when she was with Big Red because I mean like he was super sweet to her and they were very cute. Together. Yeah. They have a good relationship throughout, which is sweet. Something I will note that I don't like that they did in this show is that they paired up couples based on physical attributes and it drives me crazy like Big Red and Ashlyn are together. They both have red hair and it's

like, OK, that's weird. Then it's like Nene and Troy are both and EJ are both like classically beautiful brunettes. And it's like, OK, then Courtney gets boyfriends who are all men of color, and I'm like, what is this show doing? Because it's like, weird. It's like tries to be progressive, but then it does shit like that, where on the surface you're like, what are you doing? Remind me of like when I Love Lucy. Like, not, this is a. Way, way back pole.

But like, they put like the classically beautiful people together and then like the rejects together. OK, I see. Like Fred and Ethel, like that's what. Like Big Red and Ashland remind me. On the surface, they're like, we got these two redhead ginger rejects, so let's put them together because they have that. I know, I know what you're saying for this, but it's just like calling them rejects. It's just so hard, but like, I know, but like. It's just on the surface, that's how it reads.

And it's just weird because they keep doing it in the show and I'm like, what are you doing? Stop being like. Low key racist and like all this shit. It's weird. But that aside those two are I they're they're probably some two of my favorite characters of the show. I think they're both great on their own. But again they're just like these people are. We want to keep them around next season. Let's put them together and it's like, do we need to also together?

They just be there are people get together until the end scene. Like, they don't even get the opportunity to have their scene in the show. Like too much happen off screen on this show and it's annoying, but like both times that they have cute things that happen. So basically at the end of season one, the end credits scene is Big Red doing this incredible tap dance number. Yeah, which go Larry and then Ashlyn coming in with the big flowers that he got. Her.

I don't remember. She comes up with the flower Season two, yeah. And then season 2, he she gives it to him, OK? And she they they kiss, they mention it, but like, if you didn't actually watch through the credits, you wouldn't have seen it. And then in Season 2, they have this whole song that they sing. Red means love. And it's really cute because Larry actually gets a song, Big Red gets a song, and he doesn't

actually get much in this show. And they they sing it through the end credits and they barely give them any time. And that that makes my heart hurt as well. And that's fair. And to to end this season and episode on a Happy Ish note, because I still have some qualms about how they did it. The song that Nene and Ashlyn sing in episode 2 wondering is like one of my favourites.

I just hate that they gave more to Nene in that scene because the actual version is mostly Ashlyn and Nene as backup except for like one verse and they give half of it to Nene and Olivia Rodrigo. Is Bill the first on both songs, even though it's basically Ashlyn's song and it's just I just like justice for Julia Lester cause like she's so talented? No, for real. And the first time she sings, I my thought was like, why isn't

this the lead? Like why is she not the lead in a show that's centering around a musical? Like why is it she sings way better than Olivia Rodrigo in my opinion. I'm like, why is she the lead? Her voice is beautiful. It's gorgeous for a musical and to have Miss Jen. Who's a supposed to be like a Broadway minded person who also when you hear her sing clearly sings like a Broadway, like a theater trained person.

Why on earth after hearing Ashlyn sing, does she not cast Ashlyn as the lead because she has a theater singing voice versus Olivia Rodrigo has a pop singing voice? It doesn't make any sense. I was like this cat this

because. Again, it's just my perception is that Disney's like, we need the conventionally attractive people to be the leads and be in romances with each other to keep people interested because we're progressive at Disney, but we're not that progressive like I'm like and that's something we'll get into in Season 2 that I do like that they switch up a little bit. Not that it's like a huge switch up, but like they do touch on that stereotype of casting like

perfect people in the lanes. So I'm I'm really excited to keep talking about the show because it does get better. And each season actually 44321, that's my order of liking the show. I'm actually liking season two more now because I've been seeing more stuff. Like the more you watch it, the more stuff, at least for me, I like. So yeah, no, it like, yeah, if you got through season one with us and you're like, what the fuck? Why would I keep watching?

Honestly, season one is the worst because it. It was trying to be other stuff to get an audience to make more seasons. Like it was trying to pull in the people that watched Glee by making it feel like Glee and then was trying to pull in the people that love High School Musical, but then also making it a wholesome Gen. Z thing to like, get all those audiences to watch it. But then it becomes its own show, like going like a little bit in Season 2, a lot of it in season three.

And by the time you get to season four, it is its own thing. And you can tell, and it's so much better because it's not trying to be something else. Season 4 is definitely my favorite, except for one thing. Now that after right? Doing these notes makes me think I'm like, oh shit, that's really bad. OK, yeah. Anyway. But really quick, I just want to give the time real quick because I don't have this in my notes and I wish I did. But justice for Natalie Bagley, OK?

Because they have her do. Confessional type things. She is not a main character. They don't give her money. Yeah, exactly. OK, so Natalie is the girl in the first episode that says shit's about to go down, I think. Oh yeah, she's hilarious. She just, like, pops in and doesn't like she's. I love her. She has some great lines that I do point out in here. She reads like a Glee character and is funny and I like that. I'm like, it's more of this.

That's what I actually. But they did not give her like she could have been one of the mains like she had the character. There I I She just like goes away I was. Like where did she go? She season 2 is her last season and she shows up in one episode in season 4, which I'm glad they brought her back. But also that story was weird as well. Yes, I agree I'm. Like what am I watching? No like, but if she's watching. This next track, the show just like ditches bitches and doesn't tell you why.

And you're like, where is everybody? She deserved more. Too much happens off screen and they don't explain it. Yeah, she was great. I I thought she was, for me, a remnant of Glee that was tracked in a good way, 'cause she was funny and blunt. And I'm like, yes, we need a character like this to break up all this fucking fake cute shit. I make it funny. I feel like she had the. Presence of Santana, like when she walked into a room like you noticed her.

When she wasn't even a main character, you know who she was. She wasn't really Santana. She was Tina Cohen Chang. When Tina Cohen Chang didn't give a fuck. And I'm like, yes, yes, This energy. I want this. OK Yeah. And they also gave Tina nothing. So. Correct. She is Tina Cohen Chang at her best. I don't have. I don't know the actress's name off the top of my head, but you go, girl. I love you. Love it. Love it. Wish there was more of you. OK. Is that all for season one, Caitlyn?

Yes. OK, so shall we rate season one? We should probably rate them season by season. OK. All right. All right. Let's we can do that because I think that's fair. All right. So it's more. Fair than, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's more fair. So let's do the hydrate for Lesbian Jesus scale. And I don't. Think of it by season, Theora. Now I have to think you do yours first, another really scientific scale. Basically, it's just like our overall thoughts about the show.

How much do you want to make it more scientific, 'cause I think I might start doing the, like, deduction points of things I don't like instead of like, 'cause I have a lot of trouble with the scale, cause like, my brain is very literal in things. So yes, yeah, basically this scale. Why are we hydrating? Because water, like queer media, is essential for life. And so how much would you hydrate for lesbian Jesus for this show? For season one Season. 1 That's in season one.

Season one I would give it 2 cups of water because there's so many things wrong with this from my opinion. Where it would get cups of water is Nene's parents and her two moms. Mostly I would give this for Carlos and Seb because I really love them. Yours video is just going crazy. And again, it sums down no, season one is really bad, and I hate that, but, and I like, I like the side, basically side characters and the moms mention.

Other than that, this was a struggle to watch 'cause it was, it was just, it felt fake, 'cause it was trying to be stuff, trying to be something else and not it wasn't its own thing. And I did. I didn't appreciate that. So I would never watch season one ever again. I've watched it many times. I know you're a strong person to be. Honest. The music gets me through it. That makes sense. Yeah, so like, I'm the type of person to watch everything just for the music.

That's why I knew Pitch Perfect word from word is because I didn't listen to the soundtrack. I just kept replaying the movie. Don't know why I do that. But apparently that's how I can actually get things to oh, I know, 'cause if I want to put music on while I'm doing things, I have to have them talking in between, or else I'll just sing the entire time and not get anything done. That makes a lot of sense. OK, so I've been going between 3:00 and 4:00, and I'm.

I was leaning towards 4 just because I love Ashlyn and because I was talking to you a little bit through text. I I'm starting to, like, notice Courtney more. I I love Courtney. But like just. The appreciation for her and her character I have more from just talking about in which This is why we have the podcast, as well as because we appreciate things a lot more when we get to talk about it and we open each other's eyes to things. But yeah, it's definitely under 5, so it's it's a three.

I'll give it a 3.5 then, and that's mainly because of the music I've I've been listening to non-stop since September, August, August. God, it's been a while. My neighbors are definitely excited for us to be done this show cause I've been like making sure I stayed in the show by listening to it all the time. So I wouldn't like my passion, wouldn't get lost because sometimes I'll like switch topics away. I didn't want to get addicted to another show before we finish this totally.

But yeah, so Ashlyn and Courtney her going to be brave song. Unfortunately it is just. Uplifting Nene, but it becomes more important to Courtney later as well. So both of those things and we got some nostalgic things as well. We had two past characters from High School Musical show up and overall it is what it is and it gets better. Bonus word, Real quick to write in the comments or in a review your.

You're going to try to spell this without looking it up, and I did used to know the pronunciation of this, so I'm going to try my best. Gallimov free. So in a sentence, it's Ashlyn is in a Gallimov free of clubs and is extremely busy. There's your word. All right, well, good luck with that. And we'll be back later. So until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus. And gate up all over the place. Bye, bye.