Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy. I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora. Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media. Representation matters, and we're. Here to talk about it. Cheers, queers, we are back with another super fun interview today. We're talking to Eden Robinson, who released her memoir Becoming Shameless last year. Welcome to the podcast, Eden. Yeah, Thank you for having me. I've been looking forward to this.
Yes, we're super excited. So as Caitlin mentioned, you just wrote a book recently. So can you tell our audience a little bit about what Becoming Shameless is about? I wrote it shortly after reading Jeanette Mccurdy's memoir. I'm Glad my mom died. And so as I was reading it, it just I remembered a lot of things that had happened growing up. And and you know, I'd also at that time, I just, you know, I'd I'd come out about, you know,
six years previously. And so I was working through internalized, internalized homophobia and lesbophobia and all of that. It's all these things are just kind of percolating in my brain. And so then when I read her memoir, I was like, that's I I relate a lot to these experiences, you know? And there's also this whole, like, homophobia piece and like coming out later in life, which I feel like isn't talked about enough and more people are talking about that, which is great.
But so yeah, I was just like, I do like what if if I wrote down all my thoughts and experiences, how many, what would that, what would that be? And then I wrote it down. I got like the first draft finished within a week. And I was like, I I think, I think I have a book here. And so then I just was just kind of learned along the way, you know, about self-publishing and all of that.
So, but yeah. But to answer your question, it's basically about, you know, my experience growing up surviving an abusive childhood and navigating that and healing from that, and also unlearning a lot of internalized homophobia and realizing that I'm gay when I was like 27, which is a fun time to realize that, you know? So it's it's about both of
those. And I wrote about both of those experiences because recognizing that that that this dynamic I had with my primary parent was really abusive. Like recognizing that and also recognizing that I that there are all these, you know, societal expectations of me to be a straight woman and how that doesn't align with who I am. You know, unlearning both of those. I'm learning those those expectations and kind of learning how to kind of be like that's that's that's not about
me, let's put that over there. That doesn't need to be a part of my life. You know that there's there's some interconnectedness there. So, so yeah. So that's it's that's what the book is about. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who can relate to everything you went through growing up. So why did you decide that now is the time to write and release
your memoir? I mean it was more just kind of a like, you know, after reading Jeanette Mccurdy's book, I was like, do I have enough for a book? And then I wrote it out. I was like, I think this is enough for a book. So then I just, I just did it like it It wasn't like a, you know, I I in terms of timing, I do feel like, you know, I reached a point in my healing journey where you know, I kind of reached a level of of
stability in in both things. So in terms of my query identity, you know, I felt comfortable in the lesbian label. It took me time to like even feel comfortable saying the word lesbian out loud. But I was at that place when I wrote the book. I'm still, you know, still happy little lesbian over here and. How can a lesbian needs to be a shirt?
I hope so. I think I just yeah, 'cause like, IA lot of the unlearning around lesbophobia specifically is like his like culturally, the word lesbian has such like it's very sexualized. Like even the fact that like if you go on to Reddit like R slash lesbians, it's not it's not for us. It is performative. It's it's performative sexuality targeted towards straight men.
You know and and you like even the way, like if you look at TikTok, like the fact that the dollar being like the reason that became a popular like meme and phrase is because the word lesbian was being restricted as like, oh, if there's the word lesbian and comments or description, then that's considered more mature content. It's like I'm not mature content. I'm a person, you know, like gay is fine, but lesbian, right. Oh yeah, exactly.
Well, exactly. And obviously, you know all the word like queer, gay, bisexual, like all of those words, they describe you know, community and people and individuals, you know and and they describe like those terms apply to to teenagers who are, you know, like there's there's bisexual teenagers.
They're lesbian teenagers. I was one, you know, I just didn't know it. But I was, you know, like, so it's it's important for those terms to be, you know, I I know that there are some queer individuals who shy away from the word lesbian and don't like to identify with the word lesbian because of how hyper sexualized it is. And I totally understand that. Totally respect their decision.
For me, my personality is such that it's like, hey, I'm that thing that's like stop sexualizing that word. That's what that's me. You know what I mean? I'm not going to shy away from the word. It is me. And so I, I, you know, I I want to see the culture shift. Not, not people who would otherwise identify as lesbians. Shy away from the word because of cultural perceptions, you know. Yeah, I actually love that you brought that up because I do
have a question about that. And it's on page 93 where you talk about having a hard time with the word lesbian because of the depiction of that word in the media. And I felt just felt that was super relatable because I also had a hard time with the word lesbian until I started doing this podcast and it was just common because it's not common ish to hear it outside of the community. I feel like because of the connotation of it absolutely.
Yeah, gay or queer is much more sort of, like, commonly used. And I love queer. Like, I love queer as an umbrella term because it's so inclusive and because it's inclusive of people who are, like, still figuring themselves out because that takes time. But yeah, but I also really love the word lesbian. And I'm like, hey, you know, like and I love all the memes around it. Like, let's go lesbians. And like, there's one I don't. I think it's from like a documentary or something.
It's this other woman coming out of the van. She's like, where are my lesbians? And then all the young women just, like, flocked to her. And I was like, I love this. That's from a movie called Pride. It's fantastic. It's like the gaze of lesbians for the minors. And this was like a real thing that happened during like a labor strike in England. And yeah. That's. Amazing. It's amazing. OK, I got. I got. I have. To watch that, go watch a movie. It's great, yeah.
But yeah, Iconic, yeah. Yeah. So obviously we, yeah, we use the word queer to you. But we've actually have had people like the older generation of the LGBTQ community be like, oh, we don't like that word. So I feel like there's still some people who do not prefer that word because of the way they were raised, because that was also used in a derogatory manner. Yeah. And that I mean that also. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
I. Was gonna say there's just there's power in language and there's something to be said about like taking words back and like like you're saying destigmatizing the word that was used not by the people who identify with it in a slanderous manner. Like queer as common now when it used to be such a like a derogatory word, like Caitlyn said. So exactly like I in January, my girlfriend and I started a podcast called Just Diking Around because like, I like the word dyke. I think it's a fun word.
I totally understand. For people who don't want to use it, I totally understand I'm again. My my perspective is I think words are worth reclaiming if if you want to. And I'm someone who wants to reclaim the word dyke because I think it's a fun word. I think it is fantastic how many, how many ways you can use it, like alliteratively, if that's a word you know and like just play around with it. Like, I just think it's a fun word. Definitely.
So back to the memoir. So you said that you basically just like spilled out your life story in a week, which is admirable. And that that tells me something that like perhaps it was just like ready to come out at that particular time when you sat down to write it. So because you were writing something that was really focused on yourself, did you learn things about yourself while you're kind of like, I don't know, like putting your
life on the page? Yeah, I think that I think what I noticed more is like the healing that came with getting it onto the page and also in the review of process. So you know as I was writing I was doing my best to like describe things, you know, be beat by beat as they happened. And then in the reviewing process I, you know like kind of shortened conversations and kind of was like OK from a from a reader's perspective, how do I make this story flow the best,
you know? And so in I think in doing that kind of going through both experiences, one where I'm just like almost like info dumping, you know, all of it. And then in the editing process where I'm looking at it from like more of an objective perspective because I'm kind of looking at it from like an outsider's perspective to see
how the story flows. There's a there's kind of like a like as I was reading the story as like as if I was a reader I was like I I developed a lot more sympathy for my younger self. Because I think I think a lot of people who survive very abusive childhoods, especially childhoods where the abuse is predominantly emotional and verbal and not necessarily physical. There is in the there is some physical abuse too but you know but when it's when when the when most of the abuse is emotional
and and verbal. There's this sense of you know what, maybe it wasn't really that bad and like maybe I'm just making too big of a deal out of this and like you there's a there's a tendency to kind of self blame and and to kind of beat up your younger self for what happened. And so in, you know, obviously therapy helped me a lot with
that as well. But also, yeah, like reading the story and and just kind of, I don't know, I I was able to develop more sympathy for my younger self of like, yeah, she she was really just trying to try to survive and trying to get through all of this. Yeah, that definitely said that you mentioned kind of like the the tendency to be like, well, maybe this was my fault. That definitely came through in
the writing. And that felt very, like authentic because that's like, that's like a common trauma response to just be like once you're out of the moment, be like, well, maybe it wasn't so bad, you know? And like, it's fine now because, you know, you're in a in a survival mode, basically, and you don't realize it. And so, like, reading that from a child's perspective was really interesting. Like, especially in the younger years was like very interesting and yeah, like it.
Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. And that's extremely common. Like every abuse survivor I've spoken with, you know, whether that abuse happened in a family relationship, a romantic partnership, you know, there's there's it's it's part of the abuse cycle, right? There's the there's the abusive episode and then there's the like like reconciliation, you know where the abuser things feel better and the abuser is nice and you're like oh OK that
that wasn't that bad. Like you know there, you know I I shouldn't have said XYZ or I shouldn't have done whatever. And if I just, you know, if I, if I just tried harder and you know, was a better daughter or partner or, you know, whatever, then it'll be better next time. You know what? And you just and it just keeps happening and then eventually you're like, wait a minute, this is not, no matter what I do, this keeps happening. So maybe this actually isn't about me at all. All right.
To pivot a little bit, So in the book you mentioned, you mentioned media quite a bit, like you mentioned TV shows and movies. That kind of meant something to you at different points of your life. So just since this is a media focused podcast, curious how media like impacted your life? Immensely, as you, Ghostbusters on my wall. There's a lot of that. We have Cave McKinnon in a suit. We have Pink in performing. We have, let's see, I have, yeah, I've got AG flip over
here. That's that's more recent one. They're just fun. And so anyway. But yes, media. Media has been, you know, made a a massive difference. And I mean starting with, you know, when I before I even realized that I was queer, you know, I had just gotten out of an abusive relationship where I had been assaulted and it I I hadn't even come to terms with the fact that that had been an assault. I just was kind of in a in a in a sort of daze.
And I discovered Pink's album Funhouse because it had just come out and it was her Music gave me permission to feel so many emotions that I hadn't given myself permission to feel because my mother never gave me permission to feel and so get having that catharsis through the music And and also like I, you know, I I pink became my special interest for a while And so I was watching like every, every interview with her I could find on YouTube. And this is back in like the
early early days of YouTube. Yeah. And, you know, and I was like, Oh, my God, she's she's so smart and she's so thoughtful and she's so funny. And she's so, like, honest and, like, raw in a way that you don't often see, especially in, like, celebrity interviews. And so I I really looked up to her. It's like that's, oh, that's that's who I want to be as an adult, you know, 'cause I was, I was 19 at the time.
And so, you know, I I was still figuring out, like, who I wanted to be, what kind of person I wanted to be, like how I was going to fit into the world. It's like oh like like that. I want that's I I relate to that and I also see so many values
that I like want to embody more. And so hearing through her lyrics how she felt angry and sad and just like the angst and the, you know, just there's just a lot of emotions there that her music, her music was a catalyst for me giving myself permission to feel those emotions and feel those feelings. So yeah, that was that was, you know, her music was and continues to be just impactful and and means a lot to me.
And then I if if it weren't for Kate McKinnon, I might still be closeted, Which is really sad to think about, but. Go Kate McKenna. Yeah, no, truly. And specifically if she wasn't out. So I I I didn't watch SNL or like, I had no idea who she was. But Ghostbusters came out and then the female Ghostbusters, and of course, you know, misogynists were mad about it. So I was like, well, I got to give it my money then. And so I went, I went to see the theaters on like the opening
weekend. And as soon there's like a scene where Aaron Gilbert, you know, confronts, confronts Abby and then, you know, kind of stumbles into meeting Jillian Holtzman and just as soon as Kate McKinnon, because Kate McKinnon plays Jillian. As soon as Kate McKinnon came out, I was, it was just like a like, I don't know how to describe it. I was like transfixed by her. I was just like, I I can't even explain. It was something about just how she embodied to the character
and how she expressed herself. And I I related to Jillian Holtzman so much, and so I I came home and like, no one else, 'cause this is the opening weekend. So no one else I knew had seen the movie yet. And I was like, I need to fangirl about this. And so I went to Tumblr, 'cause that's the home of the fangirl. And and I just followed like every Jillian Holtzman, Kate
McKinnon blog I could find. And you know and then I was like oh like I'm everyone else is queer is sapphic and also has learning terms like queer and sapphic. Like I just, you know prior to that I was just a really really strong ally to the community such a good ally And you know so I was learning these terms that were more open than you know gay, lesbian, bi. That's it, you know and but I you know I, I. Well, I had only dated men,
like, up to that point. And so I like, I know it sounds ridiculous, but I was like, well, I've dated men, so I can't be gay because I've dated men. And you know, And so I was just, I was just going along, you know, just fangirling over Kate McKinnon and Jillian Holtzman. And that's where I found out that Kate McKinnon herself is a lesbian.
And I was like huh You know. And I'm I'm watching interviews with her and it's the same thing as like what happened with Pink where like I'm just like Oh my God, she's so funny. And she's so like like off the cuff and just like very sweet and very I I just related to how she presented in these interviews and. I'm not afraid to be herself.
Yeah, exactly. And also what I noticed is, you know, she was, she had done all of this, all these interviews with other cast members from Ghostbusters and especially she and Leslie Jones. They have a very like cuddly dynamic. And I hadn't really, like thought about this, like this hadn't really come to the front of my mind until I was seeing Kate McKinnon, a no lesbian, you know, interact in such a platonically of but like physically affectionate way with her cast mates.
And I was like lesbians can do that. Like lesbians can like be physically affectionate in like a non sexually just just, you know, be like cozy with their friends, essentially. Without having them be like, oh, you're coming on to me. Right, right. Without without it being like, you know, 'cause like, honestly, prior to that, like I I watched the L word and But that, you know, like the L Word is like my that that was the most I knew about lesbians. Basically it's.
A framer, and you know that should not be a. Framer. Right. It should not be. I mean it's it's, you know, it's it's fun for what it is like, you know. But yes, this should not be your sole reference for lesbianism is and it's, I mean, it's a soap opera, let's call it what it is.
It's a soap opera. And so when you have a soap opera, like it's very, you know, like anytime two female characters make eye contact with each other, you know they're going to fuck within the next three episodes like that, you know? And so it was, you know, it's it's the way that sex was portrayed.
I I have many feelings and thoughts about how the sex was portrayed in that show because on the one hand I think it's valuable to show how lesbian sex can work because so many people do not know that and I don't think that real life lesbians should bear the brunt of that. You know, in terms of being asked I don't know in the middle of a reckon Trader Joe's hey, how do lesbians have sex like I don't you know and all and porn is clearly not doing its job of showing how lesbian sex actually
works. So I think that there's a lot of value in creating media and content that you know, show two women having sex same more realistic way. Obviously it's all Hollywood and whatever, but like in a more accurate way while also, you know, showing stories and having it be an interesting, you know, storyline or whatever. But it you know that's it's still not there's value in the show and what it was for you know queer women of the time and all of that. But also not the best reference
point for like lesbianism. Not the most accurate anyway. That's all to say that, you know, seeing Kate McKinnon just exist was just I was having a lot of epiphanies about what it actually means to be lesbian. And I related to it a lot. I I related a lot to to how she kind of moves through the world. And then I saw a post just on Tumblr and I at this point it's all just like I I'm just following like all Kate Holtzman fan blogs, so everyone's gay and Sapphic.
And so someone reblogs a post about compulsory heterosexuality and I'm just reading it. So I'm like, oh, what's this like? Oh, it's me. And so it was, it was like that. It was, it's a very, like, I often compare it to that movie The 6th Sense where you get to the end. You're like he was dead the whole time. That makes so much sense. Like I was a lesbian the whole time I had. That makes so much sense. That's of course, yes.
My whole life makes sense now. And so that was the that was the like, this is Cape Mckennon, Gillian Holtzman, and then reading about Compat and being like, oh, OK, yes. So I feel like I know this answer, but is there a piece of media that's out now that you wish was around when you were growing up? Gosh, so much. I mean, even. OK. So I wish. I mean, going back to like kids, more like content directing work. Prince kids like Shira. I wish Shira had been around
when I like. I know there was like an older Shira. But like the current Shira, the Netflix Shira. I wish that had been around when I was a kid. I wish oh God, there's trying to remember like all there's been so many. Oh, Nimona, I wish that had been out when I was a kid. Yeah, just like there's so much. There's so much, there's so many like movies and shows that just show like 2. I mean so much. Not as much as there should be. But compared to when I was growing up, like there's there's
a lot more now. You know, showing 2 girls like liking each other. And you know that I I wish, I wish I had known lesbianism was an option and being queer was an option. And also part of that is I did grow up religious. So you know, I don't know. You know, I I don't know to what degree I would have been allowed to watch these shows when I was younger, but at least for them to have existed, there would have been a chance at me finding
them. And I think not only do I wish those shows had been around, but I also around the early 2000s is when I was like, you know, around those middle school years. And there was like, there was like the Britney and Madonna kiss, there was Katy Perry's I Kissed a girl. Like there was so much. I don't know what I want to call it, Like, I hesitate to call it Sapphic representation, but it kind of was like so much like Sapphic representation. That was like very intensely
male gaze. Yes. So it was very much it was, it was like it was, in my experience, it was almost worse than if if it had never been, like, shown at all. Because to show, oh, this is what being a queer woman is, is, is it's to be further sexualized by men and and, you know, preyed upon by men.
It created this like internal like disgusted repulsion versus if I had, you know, if I had grown up just like not knowing what Gabe was at all, I may have been able to like connect the dots and be like, I don't really feel that way about guys. I do kind of feel that way about girls, Like, you know what I mean? Like they're I may have had more room to like actually recognize my own feelings.
But because there it like, I think, yeah, the the the, the representation that was out there was so harmful. It was, it was. It was almost like more harmful than you know than than to not have it at all, I think for me personally. Yeah, I I remember that stuff. And then I forget what was it. Tattoo also came out to the fake lesbians. Yes. This is a band of fake lesbians pretending to be lesbians. So yeah, I totally it was. It was a weird time. The early 2000s was a weird time.
But I like your examples that you gave specifically of Nimona and Shira because it goes back to what you were saying earlier is like it. Those are like age appropriate, like representations of queerness because like she was like they're like young, like young young adults and then like Nimona, they're like a young adult in it, like a child and then like older adults that are queer. And so it's like and it's not the point of, it is not the romance or like the sexualization of anybody.
It's just like a part of this, just part of the characters and like it's normalization and presenting it in an age appropriate way. And I agree. A lot of what I feel what we do on the podcast is like healing inner child because you didn't know any of this as a kid. And so, like, yeah, exactly. Healing inner child's and doing group. Therapy. That's the podcast, yes. Eden, you mentioned earlier that you have a podcast called Just Diking Around.
Can you explain to us a little bit about your podcast? I would like to. I would like to learn. Yeah. So. So my girlfriend Jackie and I have been together for a couple years and I started falling down. Prior to that, I kind of fell down a rabbit hole of like a Reddit React podcast. And I just found them really entertaining. And I would like, you know, listen to these episodes and then I would talk to Jackie
about them. We would talk about the ridiculous stories and you know, just like we would have our own full on conversations about it. And I was like, what if, what if, like what if we started one? And so that's and that's how that started. I was like with her in December. It was this past December and then as soon as I came back home because we're long distance because we're lesbians so and so you know I came back home and we recorded our first episode and
then it's been I've run. I'm working on an editing episode 9 now. I had to take a little breaks. They started a new job and getting settled in and all that but I. Understand. Yes, yeah, but yeah we predominantly like read Reddit post. I I do my best to find ones that like don't sound completely you know creative writing practice
you know what I mean? I do my best to find ones that are like sound like feasible and like they even if this like even if that particular one might not be percent accurate. Like we've we've seen these situate these kinds of situations happen. You know we know people think like this kind of thing. Yeah and you know but also like we'll also discuss like other things like if we watch like a queer show together it's very like queer centric of a podcast
right. So if we watch like a fun queer show, we'll talk about it or like your book or whatever. Like one of our recent episodes we gave a shout out to like Dating Unlocked, which is a queer show that we really enjoyed. It's Canadian, it's a reality dating show, but it's like done really well. It's really cute. And then there I recently read a like a a Sapphic, like romance novella that was really good. It's called Bespoke by LM Bennett is the author.
So you know, I read a few excerpts, like gave the author a shout out and all that. So it's basically like queer content. If we don't have any, like we don't have any, like we don't have anything to talk about, we'll have picked out Reddit stories and react to those. If we have other things to talk about, like within the queer genre, we'll talk about that. That's awesome. We love more queer shows. Exactly like queer media in general. Yeah, exactly.
And you know, I I think it's so it's so valuable and also just really fun to do. But yeah, I also think it's valuable to just like have poor people just like tell our stories. And, you know, because there are, there are still so many people who are scared of the rainbow and scared of the queer community. And you know, I I think the more that we get to just, like, tell our stories and be like, hi, I'm actually not the boogie man we're. Not the problem. Yeah, exactly. Right.
Like we we just want to like we we just want to get married and like have a good life and like adopt some pets, you know, maybe you know, do some woodworking or something, you know, be just be gay and happy. But that's about it. I love it. You Currently, I believe, live in San Francisco, which has one of the gayest cities I have ever seen. Thank you. Fiora, you're welcome. How does it feel to live in this accepting place after growing up how you did?
It's really really nice. It's really nice to you know I so my day job is I'm a personal trainer and most of my clients are queer which is just really nice to have that like not I mean not that it how do I you'll need to like cut all these pauses out but like it's obviously. There's something about working with the queer population. Yeah, right. Like it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when. Yeah, OK. So this is what I'm trying to
say. When you're queer and you're in any workplace, there is this anxiety that can come up where it's like, how much you know will I get fired? Or if it's, you know, a kind of job where you're working one-on-one with clients, you know, like, how much am I compromising my finances by? Just like being honest and being like, you know, when they're like, oh, how was your weekend? You're like, oh great, my girlfriend and I watched blah
blah blah, you know what I mean? Like talking about your your partner is such a common part of just like everyday interaction between, you know, you and your Co workers, clients, what have you. And so there is this sort of like anxiety that can come up even in a place like San Francisco, you know, like where it's like you still kind of like hesitate and are like is can I come out, You know what I mean? Like, can I say my girlfriend or da da da.
And living in San Francisco, I feel very fortunate that, you know, that anxiety is much, much less than it would be if I was living in a more, you know, Republican minded city. And and so the fact that most of my clients are queer is it it just creates a level of comfort with both of us, you know, because both of us have had, you know, with with each client. It's like both of us have had negative experiences pertaining to, you know, coming out and all of that.
And so it's it's when when we know that the other is queer, it it just creates this level of comfort with each other And like this is this, you know, not overuse this phrase but like this is the safe space, you know, kind of thing. And so I feel very lucky that I can just be honest about my life and not have to worry about, I mean, because I'm a terrible liar. I don't have the. I don't have. I'm not I don't have a good
enough memory to lie. So you know, if it if I had to like if I was working somewhere where like I had to like catch myself and and and hide that part of me, it would be very, I don't think I'd last very long. That's why I add this podcast as the first thing on my resume. So it just, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So, So, yeah, so then I've been very lucky that, you know, the, the gyms that I've worked out are very inclusive and very just, yeah, I I've never, I have.
I've been fortunate enough to never have personally encountered an issue where you know, my livelihood is compromised because of my identity. Yeah, honestly. Like, it's it. Having like grown up in the South and now living in a liberal city, like, I completely understand how you feel. It's like a giant. Weight is lifted. Because like, literally, it's normal. Nobody cares. Yeah, exactly. And I lovely. Yeah, exactly.
And I, you know, I've thought about returning to Massachusetts just like for fun, like just to be able to show Jackie, like this is where I grew up, you know, have my Boston accent accent come out all over again, you know? But I do because I grew up in such a religious community.
Like every time I think of, you know, going back home, there's, there's that, like, OK, so like, do like, is 'cause like in a normal situation if you're going back to a hometown where, you know, you'd a couple friends and who still live there, you're gonna naturally be like, oh, hey, I wanna grab lunch with them, introduce them to my spouse, etcetera. But every time I think about returning to Massachusetts, I'm like, I don't know if I will reconnect with, you know, these
families that I grew up around. Because I know they're religious and I don't know how they're going to respond to me being like, hey, me and my girlfriend, you know, are here, you know, so then you get the people. Who are straight and use the word girlfriend so then they still won't think. That you're talking about your girlfriend and then? That's true. But I think I mean yes but yeah I I I don't know I I I think that they will.
I think I think they'll I think it'll be pretty obvious so yeah but but. But yes, but then also that's also weird. You know what I mean? I personally I I I'm staunchly against it. I think straight women should choose. Just say best friend. Like why do you have to say girlfriend? Yes. Why are we gendering only our female friends? Exactly. That's my boyfriend, who's a boy and a friend. Exactly. So that's, I think that's what it is.
If straight women are out here calling all their male friends their boyfriends, right? Sure, OK, whatever. But just don't have a double standard, that's all correct. Love it. Love it. I agree. All right. You mentioned earlier you're her personal trainer. You like guessed all our questions. So you're a personal trainer and you created Fangirl Fitness, which we love that your tagline is unleash your inner superhero because like, yes, so OK so why did you start this?
And like can you explain the concept of this to? Us. Yeah. So I I did not get into fitness or working out at all until I was in college. And it just, you know, working out became an outlet for a lot of this anxiety and anger and all these feelings. And I could just go for a run and then the feelings and feel better because endorphins.
And you know, it was at the time of like trying to figure out what I want to do. And I ended up randomly getting a job at a rock climbing gym, running like the kids programming and which basically just means it's like, you know, if there was like a birthday party, I would belay. So the blayer is the person standing on the ground wearing the harness with the rope like tied in. And they're the ones basically making sure that the climber is, is safe. My wife is a rock climber.
I am the blayer. Exactly. Oh, rock climbing is so lesbian. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. No, I mean, like the jobs that I had, the clothes I wore, like I was living in a glass closet the entire time anyway. So yeah, so I was believed for kids birthday parties. And also like there was like the summer camp, you know, I would, I was in charge of the kids and you know, anyway, so this was, I believe it was a birthday party.
And one of the girls who was so scared that like as soon as we tried to like put on the harness, she just started crying because I mean it's it's scary, you know, if you're walking in your little, you know, 8 year olds, you know, it's big, these big walls and you're expected to go all the way to the top. And I mean, we don't expect them to go all the way to the top, but some parents can be, you know, and you know, and and she
was scared. So then and I was able to just like work with her one-on-one and just you know kind of like gently coach her and make her feel really like at ease and and in working together I was able to kind of spark that that interest and that like you know, kind of sense of empowerment
rather than fear. And by the end of the two hour session she was climbing halfway up the wall and just like you know look how you know getting to to to the halfway point being like look how hey I'm you know kind of thing and sounds like oh I I wanna I wanna I wanna do more of this like I this is something I like this this feeling.
And then there was another time when it was a birthday party and it was all girls and you know at in the beginning you can kind of tell like there was a little bit more not there wasn't like intense cliques but there was a little you could tell a little bit you know clickiness. I mean, these are middle school girls like this, Unfortunately. It's pretty normal, you know, But as we, you know, like only two girls could climb at a time because there were only two blares.
And so the rest of the girls were just sitting and kind of started to cheer on the climbers. And it became more of this like full group activity where like as each girl went up, you know, they were being cheered on by the entire group. And it was such a lovely. It was just so lovely and wonderful. And I was like, yes, I want to do more of this, you know. And so I was thinking about how I could, how I could, you know, help other people feel physically empowered.
And I was like, what if, what if I became a trainer? And so I looked. I looked into it and, you know, I looked into getting my certification. I got the, the textbook. The National Academy of Sports Medicine is the agency I went with and, you know, got the textbook, studied, took the exam, passed. And that's you know once you pass the exam you're certified and then just started working with clients.
You know have I've looked at like various different gyms and it's it's you know the the like the fact that you're anytime you're working with clients you know it's it's not a clock in work 8 hours clock out. This is the same paycheck I get, you know, every couple weeks. I know what I I know how much money I'm making. Like it's not that.
It's very like, it's more like this And sometimes it's like this And you know, so it's it's it's hard in that respect, but every time I'm working with a client, I'm teaching a class, 'cause I I got also a few years after getting certified, I got my yoga teacher certification. Like it just, I just like the I just really love the work. Like I just really love helping people and helping them feel empowered and you know, and and connecting with them in such a, you know, it's it's a very like
visceral way. You know what I mean? It's like you come in and a lot of times, yeah, a lot of times my clients use it as sort of like a, a venting session. You know, they're venting about work and whatever, you know, and and so they get that kind of like, you know, like opportunities just like vent and like unleash, not unleash but like unload all of that. And also they're getting to like release that physically as well. You know, stress, anxiety, all
of that stuff. You know, they're they're given that outlet, you know, and they're also, you know, becoming more empowered as well. You know every session brings them closer to the point where they can eventually just work out on their own because I've trained and educated them enough that, you know, they know how to they know how to do stuff on their own, you know, So so yeah, it's it's a really fun job and I I really, I really enjoy helping people this way.
What was sorry, what was the question? Did I answer your question? Just what's the concept of fangirl fitness? Oh yeah, yeah. So I came up with that because I mean I am a fangirl at heart. And I also again I I got certified about like 88 ish years ago. And so you know the landscape of the time back then, you know Jillian Michaels was still very big. Like the whole perspective on fitness was very much like boot camp drill Sergeant kind.
There was starting like body positivity was like starting to be a thing. But still there's very much this public perception of a trainer being like you know what I mean? Like a big scary. Yeah. And so I wanted a name that would just, like, was a little cheek, cheeky, I can tell. But I like, you know, just hiking around. I like having fun.
And so, you know, so I wanted something that was like fun and like kind of making fun of myself a little bit and also reflective of, like, who I am and kind of indicating, like, hey, it's like we're going to have fun. You know what I mean? This isn't, I'm not no yelling. It's we're we're all cool. And so, yeah, so I was like, oh, fangirl, 'cause I'm a fangirl. I like, I'm a nerd. I like connecting with other people, you know, who are also
nerds and fangirls and all that. So that's what started that. And I wanted something just like colorful, like if you go to the website, you see it's very like kind of fun and colorful and playful. And that's, that's what I wanted to to kind of communicate through my brand. It makes it less intimidating and I just love the whole thing.
Yeah, because like, you know, physical fitness is something that we're all, you know, we all deserve and it's become such as fitness and health and Wellness has become like productized and like, you know what I mean? Like like as it's become, it's, it's been turned into this product by capitalism. Yes, it's this. It's like, there's all of this, like shame and you know, shaming and like, just bullshit that's just tacked on to it. And you're just like, that's
that's bullshit. But if you don't know, you don't know that it's bullshit. Like, you know what I mean? And so that's why, like, I, I see my job as, like I'm as much a teacher as I am like a a trainer, you know, because most of my job is just literally teaching, like just teaching my clients, you know, this is don't worry about this. This is bullshit. This is marketing. This is nonsense. And this is what is actually going to help you, you know, physically become stronger.
You know, this is what's going to help your health, you know, and and all of that. So yeah. Well, thank you for setting the record straight. As a healthcare professional, I appreciate that because yes, there's a lot of garbage out there, so. And it's it's fun. I mean like funny and like a depressing way how like the same bullshit that like back in the the old days of like Instagram and YouTube, like it it was there and then now it's on TikTok.
Like you're seeing. It's like the same, it's like reruns, you know what I mean? It's like, it's like diet culture reruns but just on TikTok instead of YouTube, you know, And it's just, yeah, it's. With that said, I do also see a lot of, you know, like a lot of other professionals, like I love Brianna Jewell on YouTube. She debunks a lot of fitness
nonsense. You know, there's other trainers, nutritionists who, you know, have a similar approach to what I to my approach, you know, and and do their best to debunk a lot of that. And I'm really happy to see them have a lot of followers and have a lot of attention. So there's, you know, there's a lot of bullshit, but there's also a lot of people who are working to to debunk all that and and set the record straight as well. Well, thank you Ian, that those are the questions we have for
you. This is truly fascinating. We appreciate getting to know you better and all the facets of your life before we close out the episode. Do you have any final words or anything you'd like to say to the listeners at home? Not, yeah.
Nothing in particular. I mean, just just, I I'm trying to think like, I mean, I know it's, you know, cliche, whatever, but I I think there's a lot of value in like trusting, you know, trusting your gut, trusting your intuition, noticing that if you feel yourself being pulled in a certain direction, you know, like, like years before I became a trainer, I, when I was in college, I wanted to get my degree in kinesiology. I didn't know why. I didn't know what I would be doing with that.
But I wanted to. And it was my mom who convinced me that that would be a waste of time, you know? And so, you know, and same thing like when I was growing up, like there were these moments where I was like, I knew that this was bullshit. Like I knew that this was abusive. I knew this was messed up and I knew that I deserved better than what I was getting in in from my
parents. And but then like, you know, I, I, I, I responded to myself with a lot of shame and being like, Oh no, you know, you're da, da, da, da. And so I I think that if I had to give a piece of advice, it'd be like if you feel yourself pulled in a certain direction and then and and attracted to something and but you're holding yourself back because you're feeling like this external shaming, this external kind of pushing you away from that, it's
something worth investigating. You know, I think anytime you feel yourself pulled towards something, that's something to investigate. Well, thank you for that. We great advice. We really appreciate. Again, thank you for coming on the podcast. We appreciate getting to know you and to everyone listening, be sure to check out Becoming Shameless. It is out, it is great and just hiking around for all fun extra queer content that Eden's putting out there.
So until next time, everybody hydrate for lesbian Jesus. And gate up all over the place. Bye. And with that, we've been big gay energy. Thank you for listening. We'd really appreciate it if you downloaded this episode and left us a review. No matter how brief, your contribution will help us reach a wider audience. We would love to hear from you about everything and anything. You can.
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