Hello and welcome to Big Gay energy. I'm Bree. I'm Fiora and I'm Caitlin come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer media representation matters. And we're here to talk about it. Welcome back friends. The BG team has a very special guest today. Please welcome Cliff cheering. Cliff Illustrated the paper Girl Comics and served as executive producer for the TV adaptation. Thanks for hanging out with us today. Yeah, thanks for having me on.
We've been looking forward to it. So many questions. Yes, we have been talking all things paper girls recently, so I guess, We have to start at the beginning. What inspired the Paper Girls comic series? Well, I was I reached out to Brian Cave on about working together.
We had done one comic like 20 years ago and we had a great time working on it, but our schedules never matched up and I asked him, you know, as I was wrapping up on Wonder Woman and he was a, you know, I think finishing up a TV show that he was working on you know, you have anything else is like you know, give me You know, I'll send you something and I got the pitch for paper girls and it was just, it was, it was great.
It was, you know, it was so clear, what, you know, the characters and what the story was about and there was so much potential to it and because it took place in the 80s when I was growing up, you know I knew that there was a lot that I could add to it just in terms of making it feel lived in an authentic and
not like this kind of character. That you often get at the 80s, you know, I really wanted it to feel like almost journalistic in the way that, you know, when you watch ET, you know, the Spielberg kind of really gives you a snapshot of like 80s, Southern California suburbs, you know, and not this kind of generic, you know, small town kind of thing, you know.
And, you know, it was a really interesting pitch because, you know, I hadn't really drawn a lot of kids, you know, I wasn't sure like you know it doesn't seem I think we're trained not to think of you know, girls stories being necessarily commercial you know or you know and you know so I was a little bit nervous like you know just because this is for me, this is
a business, right? And like I was going into business with Brian on this story and I was like this Seems not risky, but definitely less predictable. And but that was also really excited, you know? And and it was so cool to see this 80s formula of like, you know, coming-of-age Adventure tales with like a Sci-Fi twist, kind of how it gets flipped on its head.
When you start when you have, you know, female protagonists, you know and and and that was so interesting to me and and reading it I realized that if I didn't draw it, I was going to be picking it apart. If anybody else drew it, you know. So you know to me that meant like yeah, I had to jump in Yeah, you may as well, get in there and have control over what it looks like, huh? And as someone who grew up in the 80s so you really did you
achieved your goal? Because it brought back like a lot of memories for me. It really does feel lived in like you said yeah. Yeah. I thought about my house and like my friends houses and you know and what we did you know and like the things that we obsessed over you know so it's all You know, trying to, you know, why? Like I could remember that stuff someone you know clearly you know try and reimburse myself in being you know, 12 again, absolutely before it's too late.
Last year's honestly, for real, I can't remember when I was 12 and it was 13 years ago. How did you become a professional illustrator? Um I always wanted to tell stories, I thought I you know for a while a brief moment that I might be a filmmaker but then, you know, I had camera troubles. And then I realized I was going to deal with like a whole crew of people and maybe not be writing stuff myself. And you know I real it's as I was getting back into Comics.
I'd read them as a little kid and then kind of Fallen away from it but I realized you know, if I There was so much that you could do in comics and that if you know, by writing and drawing them that maybe I could, you know, kind of, you know, present kind of like a really cohesive Vision, you know, for a story and so, you know, I kind of fell back in love with comics and and realize that, you know, this was the medium that I wanted to work in. I started working for Disney
Adventures comics and then vertigo which was great vertigo Comics, DC's kind of imprint for Sandman and hellblazer and a lot of kind of stuff that was geared more for mature readers, a little bit more, you know, adult and literary like that, really that stuff really got me back into comics. And so it was a real honor to go and work there as a, you know, as an assistant editor. You know, my art wasn't really
up to speed. And so I use that time to learn how Comics are made from the other side of the desk. And, you know, while I was, you know, going home at night, and continuing to kind of, you know, draw stuff on the side and then after a couple of years realized that, you know, if I was going to do this that I would have to go full time with it.
I really, you know there's a point where you know I couldn't really split my time that way, you know and and then yeah and then I did that for a few years move back home with my mom, you know, to make sure that you know, I could keep pursuing Comics even if they weren't, you know, even if I wasn't getting a lot of work and then after a few years, you know, it seem to you know get a lot more stable is getting more work and you know and then I went just, you know, after that I you know fully
committed to You know, to being an artist, you know, it was like a weird process. I didn't really think of myself as being an artist for a long time and the kind of way my mindset had to change, you know, you know, versus having being in an office and, you know, working for a company and what your time is worth to that company and where your allegiances lie, and then suddenly you're a freelancer and everything you do
these things terrifying. It is, it really isn't and requires, you know, a shift in the way your think, in the way you think. So, it took me a while and it took me a while to embrace that identity. Yeah, it does. I'm sure I've done like freelance video production. It's it's the there's no safety net. Yeah. And that's something hard that's to get over, but that's awesome.
That you could move back with your mom and kind of make sure that it was a viable option for you and just build up your, you know. Yeah. Also, you know, I was living in New York, you know. And that wasn't really going to be Feasible. Right? He can afford this pizza box. Your so what is your process for visualizing characters and scenes from scratch When developing a comic?
with paper girls, you know, I had a bride had already written kind of a a You know, kind of a character brief character paragraph on each and that was so, it was so clear who the those girls were and how they differed from each other and, you know, use that as your springboard and you try to figure out like what of these personality traits, can you.
You know, can you make visual? You know, like how what communicates, you know, you know, so max haircut, you know, or what she's wearing, you know, what any of the characters are wearing like how what how that speaks to who they are and what their interests are. You know, it's it's definitely like those are all specific choices storytelling choices and, you know, did a couple, you know, versions of that.
But But you know by and large, I think, you know, being the co-creator of it, you know, and meant that I should put my stamp on it you know. And and so you know once I had something I was happy with I sent it to Brian and he was against is great and you know, and we just went from there.
So there's something really nice about that where unlike with, you know other companies you don't check in with anybody, don't you get permission on anything it's like it's your idea and you can just With it. It sounds like a really good partnership to because it can be really hard if you're working with other people which, you know, we found that to working within fandoms and whatnot with other people that just there's nothing like that relationship where you can just, you know,
exchange ideas and kind of have a trust there. So yeah, I think going into it you have to be open to the collaboration and knowing that That you don't have and shouldn't have 100% control over something, you know, and what's its, what the other person brings to the table and you should invite that and encourage it, you know, and Brian's been really great about that, you know, from from the beginning. Awesome failure. So magical when you like, you
find someone that you work with. Yeah, it is magical like this podcast brand theories, like the first people like I've like, we fully work. Well, it is just so weird. because you're like used to like group projects where one person does everything and Yeah, or there's pettiness or whatever and nobody's like openly sharing and openly, like giving and taking like, you're not, you're putting your egos aside, I guess this is. Yeah, and so the partnership.
It's a relationship. It's, you know, it's all those things that have to, you know, and you really have to let like nobody's, you know, nobody wants to take orders and it's not set up in that way, you know? It's not meant to be that way. So You know, I think it's, you know, I think it's important again, especially doing something creative to make sure that, you know, if you're not doing all of it, then you have
to let you know. For sure it's not something you can control is it's sort of just like being on stage and like playing live music and it's like you just jam and it is what it is. Mmm. How long do you typically work on a comic for it because like there's a lot of different illustrations and it if I was doing it would take it never get done. So right. You talking about like an individual issue or like yeah well trade paperback so maybe
like both. Yeah I mean we had a very strict schedule that I set from the beginning you know, probably because of my editorial background, we had about Six weeks, maybe six to eight weeks per issue. and usually yeah, I think usually took me about six weeks and then a pencil and ink the issue and then you know, And then after say five issues were done, I would have about like a month buffer between you know, finishing that issue and then starting the next the next book.
So you know what help there was like if I started to run behind on any of those issues and you know, it would be okay. I had about a month to, you know, between 45 issues to do. You know if I needed it? Gotcha. So do you have any favorite illustrations from? Paper grows like things parts that were the most fun for you to create. Yeah, I mean, there are lots of little moments that I'm really that.
I really love that I'm proud of, but that last issue, I think, is really some of my favorite stuff because it's so quiet and it just focuses on the girls and and, and, you know, it's after all the Sci-Fi craziness and we're just getting to spend Time with them because it's the last issue and we're not going to see them anymore, you know, so drawing them, you know, smoking and like a little kids playground, you know, that was like an image that that that came to me like, you know, I
think the original script had them, you know, like on a bridge, you know, that was near you know where Brian grew up, you know, and just in the same way that maybe that bridge was sentimental to him, I was remembering it.
You know, being around that age or maybe a little bit older and high school, you know, and, you know, being with friends and smoking cigarettes and like Elementary School playground, you know, like that was a vivid memory for me and and I like the idea of you know, that juxtaposition of the awkwardness of it, you know, and how it really symbolized, you know, these girls being in between, you know, adults and being kids. Yeah. I Love that.
Like the playground brought a juvenile X aspect to it because With stories. I feel like you could forget that kids are kids. Yeah. Especially when they're like dealing with situations that aren't typical so that was that was really cool. Another thing that I thought was really cool is that all six volumes of the comics, like they all connect with the covers, so what made you decide to do that? Is that, like a typical thing or is this something unique? It was kind of stumbled on it.
You know, I did the first volume not really planning any of it. They, you know, the subsequent ones. And then when it came time, I'm to do the second one, you know, I realized you know, I was trying to follow a certain amount of Like the framing of the first one but all the covers both the single issues and and the trade paperback collections are wrap around covers, you know.
So like the image continues on to the back and you know and it was just a lot of space and I was like what can I do here and I was like oh what if it somehow like there's a weird extension from the previous cover that you know that got cropped and we just put that on the back you know and then they can all kind of You know, connect but not in any like real important way, but just, you know, you know, as a little kind of Easter egg more than anything else, we love an Easter egg.
Okay, so we've marveled we have marveled amongst ourselves that the casting for the Paper Girls TV series was so spot-on. It blows my mind. It's like crazy how much they inhabit? He's just like, I don't know what was it like seeing people inhabit, the characters you created the drawings from? Yeah. It was it was very surreal, you know, again. Yeah. The show would not have worked. At all without those girls without those girls being so
good. And so, so right for the roles, you know, it, you know, if you, you know, if they were like somehow like more like actory, you know, you know that wouldn't have worked like, they feel very genuine, you know, and I think they, you know, were able to tap into, you know, the characters of that we created and with the the the scripts, you know, the writing staff, they really The showrunners and, you know, they really honor kind of like the heart of what our story was
while at the same time, pushing it in, you know, a different direction or and adding things, you know, in order to, you know, kind of fit the medium better, you know, you know, there's certain things that we could do in comics that that are necessitated by, you know, the format. But you know, when you have 40 minutes, you know, I or an hour of TV. Like you can fit a lot more in there and you want to spend time with those characters.
So those stories and the changing in the plot changes a little bit and you can but you can fill it with all these really rich details and and they really did that in a way that, you know, wasn't exactly like to the letter of what we did. But I don't think that would have been interesting. Like, you know, we already have those Comics, you know and and to just film those, you know, Not make it, you have to let
people do their do their take. You know, I we were just talking about this, you know, it's a collaboration and and you know, they have to be they have to feel empowered to do their best
work, you know. And if we're being like prescriptive about what they can do is this going to hem them in and you know and I think what we were so lucky to have with the show was, you know, this this vehicle for people to kind of Express themselves and their feelings About, you know, their childhoods and and growing older and whatever disappoints been City may carry. And, you know, and that that's really poignant and, you know, and I'm glad that they were able to to do that. For sure.
So another aspect of the show, we previously spoke with David J, Peterson and Jesse Sam's, who worked with developing the spoken. Futuristic language in the paper girl series, how is the written language to develop for the comic series? And is there a reason the conlang wasn't spoken as much as in the comics? Yeah, I don't as much of the show, right?
I mean partly, we didn't see that much of the teenagers heck and although yeah, you know, and You know, so unfortunately like that was something, you know, that we might have seen more of, you know, in another season for the comic, it was you know just a cipher like it was just English but you know, with with different letters and and so it wasn't and it was like very conversational, you know, 20th century English.
So it wasn't like the weird kind of future kind of or stilted future speak of the the old timers. It was something a lot more casual and you know, I guess more appropriately, you know, kind of teenage sounding. So you know with, you know, with the show. Yeah, I would have liked to have seen it more or done something. You know, where you know where we would have been able to see more where they came from. It would have been really cool. It's we love that whole the whole conlang.
I learned a lot about that stupid. He's gonna want, this is what we had and what we know more about it than I didn't. We have a nice little, we had a really long conversation with with David and Jesse and like still chat with them some once in a while. So it's just been really cool finding out what goes into that whole process. But so, was there anything from the comics? You wish had been adapted to the show, the rest of it. Right.
Yeah, I know that there's a lot. I mean, there was, you know, and it was a definite, you know, their ways in which the, you know, that first season covers a lot of ground. But then it also, you know, we don't get this Bend The time in the 80s that, you know, I kind of wish that we had a little bit more of, you know, like, but you want to get to that high concept of them meeting their old ourselves, a lot faster. So, you know, I would have liked to have seen them in the 80s.
Just kind of going through, just being kids, you know, more being thrown into the future and having to deal with that top of everything else. But I mean yeah, the rest of it would have been great, you know? Seeing some sort of prehistoric version of Cleveland, you know, would have been these inquiry would have ever been in there, if the there were more seasons? Yeah, yeah. I think so.
I think so hmm. Well going in the other direction like you were talking about the little details that get added and give a lot of flavor for the characters. We really loved KJ's plotline where she gets to see her future self Mia and meet Lauren. So how did those change? How do you those changes develop when a day when adapting paper
girls to TV? Yeah. I'm you know I wish I could speak to that all I know is when those scripts started coming in I was jealous of them, you know of these ideas you know because it was so great as it was
something. I wish we had done in the book, you know, it was such a beautiful Seen, you know, when they're at the at the movie theater, you know, and talking about, you know, talking about being gay and and and and the the the way that Lauren recognizes so quickly, what KJ's talking about was just so heartbreaking and and sincere. And like, you know, I really love that stuff, you know. So, you know, we didn't, we didn't explore.
Lure as much of KJ in the book and, you know, I think partly it's nice to leave something to the imagination and because so much of her journey was about in the book was about, figuring herself out in that moment, you know, as but you know, her seeing her future self in the show, you know, was was a different way to kick. Start that, you know, reflection in her and, and, you know and it works really, really nicely.
Yeah, I talked for a good, like we dirty 40 minutes about maybe an entire episode about that, see we all we all just loved it so much because it was such, so, relatable. In the way that you sometimes almost have to speak in a code just because of the I guess importance and almost the outside stigma attached. It's so big. Yeah, exactly. And in that time, period, even
more. So because it was even between even from like 1988, even from 1995 to tonight, there's such a difference in the way you have those conversations because Me growing up. We just had our talking about coming out episode and And we talked about the whole process for each of us and Kaitlyn's a little younger than the aura
night. And so it was just a little bit, so it was just kind of such so interesting because the organized experience are so similar in that, we were, you know, graduating in the late 90s from high school and just going through back the coming out process and that time. So, it was so rewarding to see that That on screen, and we're really glad that they did it. So, I'm only laughing because I was born in the late 90s. Don't find them old. Let's let me see where we are. Okay.
So we've talked a lot about paper girls and we still have more, but I want to know what your favorite or most challenging project you have worked on in your career. I just finished it. It's called Catwoman, lonely City. It's a book that I wrote, and Drew, and colored in lettered, you know. So I did all of the different creative parts of it.
And, you know, it's for a reason and the the collected Edition comes out in in December in mid-December and you know, I think if you like paper girls, I would say definitely give it a read. It's about an older cat woman who has been in jail for 10 years after being put away for for you know, reportedly killing Batman. And This really horrible night called fools night in Gotham City that saw Batman and the Joker and Commissioner Gordon
died. And so she comes back after 10 years of being in prison and the whole city has changed, its kind of clean and and and touristy and people are spending a lot of money. But you know, there's a lot of inequality as a lot of institutional racism. There's a lot of she comes back to a city that is over-policed. With very militarized police officers who are now wearing kind of Batman asked uniforms and things like that.
So it's up to her to, you know, she comes back and she's not quite sure where she fits in and and she's also trying to solve the mystery of Batman's dying words which were saved the city and and and in order to do that, she has to break into the Batcave. So it's one last Heist for Selina Kyle and You know and trying to find a crew to do that with when you know the city has changed and everybody's gotten older. It's yeah it was you know for me
it was it was very ambitious. I'm really proud of it, I think if yeah and again if you like paper girls I think you'll enjoy it. There's and and it's gay. There's gay stuff. No it was it was all interesting. It really sums in the Batman world. She was always my favorite character. So you're already had me at Catwoman. I just it's funny because like everybody likes to do that at the end of like and it's good. It but okay cool. I'm it. That's yeah. Basically how we do our podcast.
Very simple people. okay, so it seems like the story for the Siri, the TV series of Paper Girls. You didn't have like a part in. Really? Like it was just based off of it. I don't know. Like what you're fully like what you did well like you're rolling.
Yeah, Brian. And I kind of decided early on like we wanted to take a step back and let them do what they wanted to do. If they were going like, you know, if they were doing something that we thought was really wrong than maybe we say, Say something, you know. But but for the most part, you know, unless you're in the room working with them, you know then you're just another annoying
person giving notes, you know? And and that's never good either, you know, and how many you know at what point do you burn off any Goodwill? And nobody wants to listen to you, you know? So you know it's you know and all these things yet, you know. And whether or not, you know our notes then You know what? If you know, then the studio has notes and then all this other stuff is. So it would have just been a big chain. Yeah, it just, you know, it would have made things more
difficult. So we just kind of stepped back and said, you know, we think these people are great. They're, you know, the really talented, let's let them do what they do, you know. And, you know, and and and let them lose and you know, and I think they really created something very unique, you know. And that's It spoke to a lot of
people. And I think that's the best, you know, that's the best outcome that you can, you can ask for, you know, I think the show is really sticking with people in a way that even though like it wasn't renewed, you know, she's a crime. Yeah, you know, but people I think they really have like it's really personal to them, you know, and, and that's awesome. You know, it's like, you know, anytime you You make art, you know, you want someone to feel you. Want someone to love it in that
way. Yeah, we're thinking about making a citizen's arrest on that one. I never know what's gonna come out of free stuff. But I don't know if you'd know the answer to this, but something has been really bothering me. Do you know where KJ and Mac end up? Because I'm really upset that we don't get to see them at the end. Oh, right? Yeah, yes. I do. Yeah, we're okay. All right there, live here. EK there, alive. At least, you know.
No, there is no there there in the there in the past, the far past. That's where the aura thought they ended up. Yeah, mmm. Yeah. That was that was her Theory. Yeah, I mean, they know, I think they're, you know, they wanted to follow some of the, you know, the shape of the books as well. So yeah, it was such a big part of the comics. So it was really surprised that because I did read them after seeing the show. And while I was reading, I was
like, this is so different. So yeah, it would just, you have to put it in there somewhere. But here's the question for the possible us forgiving people for crimes. Do you think there's a possibility that another Network might pick it up or do you know? I don't know. I wish I knew all this stuff is kind of like a crazy black box to me, or, you know, I don't know what happens inside of it.
You know, I do know that. Yeah, they're shopping it around and, and, you know, and they definitely Lee feel like there's, you know, from what I understand the, you know, there's interest, but I don't know what shape any that in truth is, you know, is in, you know what they want, what they don't want from it. So you know, unfortunately I can't really I can't really say like what they, you know, where we go or what would happen to it if we had a network, we pick it up. Oh yeah.
Like I really wanted to create the big game network in the future so we can just save the world basically. You should probably we're all done. Beeping whooshing. Evil villain at some point. That's it's just it was so good and like the actress is they just invited the characters. So beautifully, like Fina just perfectly took on the Coming out like her facial expressions, the way she said things. Yeah we this is why our paper girls episode turned into four episodes.
Yeah, it was originally supposed to be one but it turned into four. But when I was doing some research for the interview, I saw that you did an interview with Harvard magazine, where you said the hunt to find the next one. Talk about comic books made you really Savor each issue. When you got it, the weight made it this Miss very mysterious thing that you could never have all at once you only got a piece of it at a time which just made
you a bigger addict. So the question is, do you think the outcome would have been different if paper girls was Least weekly instead of all at once that is really hard to know my part of me suspects. Yeah, that the binge model only works almost accidentally for certain things. You know, I mean if you look at a lot of shows now they're like they're not dropped all at once or if they are once they're successful, they are Not dropped all at once.
You know, so for paper goes I think you know we definitely would have benefited from it coming out in the word of mouth being good you know because not everybody wants to sit down and watch 8 hours, 10 hours of TV in one weekend, you know, or they do and then it's just over and even if it gets renewed, you have to wait over a year. Yeah. So you know, I think you know and actually if you like something sometimes, you want to savor it too and you want to
spread it out. Yeah. So you know it's great that it that it can be there for people to enjoy, however they want, but it's not great if you're going to then, you know, say, you know, if you're not going to give things time to grow. Yeah. I don't think it's great for building an audience. Yeah. Yeah. You're just kind of expecting people to find it, you know. And then hope that it's like a mess if you don't actually Market that. Well just say I'm not over this.
Okay, can you tell her about it? Yes. Very when you release everything at once, there's only one push on social media really? Like there's like one thing and then it goes down, but if it's every week, then people keep hearing about it and it'll go up and up and up and it just makes no sense and I think that's why people are starting to not do it all at once, anymore. They realize it doesn't work
anymore. I feel like a good, like, a good thing is, like the three episodes all at once and then weekly like, that model works really well. Yeah. I think a lot about this, she does. Ah, but anyway, so you were part of creating the most important comic book on Earth. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Yeah. You know, it's about climate change and The the proceeds of the book, you know, go towards really, you know, towards you know, saving you know, certain trees and putting, you know, towards real initiatives to prevent like the extinction of species and things like that.
So it it's definitely about you know, not just, you know, educating people or Dramatizing you know the effects of climate change on the planet but also about like making sure that the book has an impact on the planet as well. You know that it actually does something or that the money that that is raised by it goes, somewhere towards actually doing something. It's really cool. I like that. Yeah, that's it's really fun.
I love when media like any form of it does something good because I'm always talking about how powerful it is. And not in and sometimes it is used for illegal things. But yeah. So I just I just love positive things. But I have one last thing about paper girls to show. Because it is so different from the comics. Is there something that besides like the cage, a thing that we talked about that you loved that was adapted that you weren't like really expecting like what
was your favorite part of it? I mean. My other favorite part. Probably was Max brother. Dylan, who, you know, we only had very much on the periphery in the book, and, you know, it's the, I really appreciated being able to see the flip side of of their, you know, of these girls time traveling and not knowing what happens.
And then, you know, so, you know, in the book, we You know, we focus on Mac and how she takes the news, but like the idea of like what her loss means to her family, you know, is also really interesting and heartbreaking and, you know, and I think I was thinking a lot about pay. I just love the scenes between them and and the dynamic and and this idea that you get to, you know, see a lost, you know,
someone that you've lost. Just seeing them again, like what that would do to you and then, you know, and then it kind of haunted me later to think that like, you know, she had to leave and then she was gone again, from Dylan's life, you know, like what does that, you know, it's almost like, did he imagine it, you know, so it's really heartbreaking. We talked about that too. Like yeah, even get to say goodbye and yeah. Those were really great sayings.
We don't get to see, like, what happened? Yeah, I was hoping that if we ever got or if we were going to get more seasons, that would get the sea. What happened with Dylan because that couldn't have been easy. I mean, like, and he wasn't the only one who saw her. Like, the kids also saw her, right? So that means that he wasn't crazy crazy, but he's probably like looking everywhere for her. Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's a lot. We've made it.
You've made it past all the hard, open-ended questions. Now we've gotten to the fun section of, would you rather? Okay, but we're not, we're not saying that they're going to be easy, probably more, more fun for us in the audience, but you get because you have to make some hard choices, all right? All right. One question in particular that that was all for, but I think we before we get too. That particular the second question.
I think we need to explain the origin story but so the first one is would you rather fight the time War for the stf for the old watch? Yeah. I mean I think you know we'll certainly the way the show is you know you want to work for the you want to. Yeah you want to be on the yes side of the stf but I think you know, probably with more seasons we would have seen a little bit more. Why the old watch is?
So you know, concerned about the timeline so you know maybe they you know, maybe they would have had a convincing argument but maybe not, you know, no, but certainly for the book, you know. Yeah. You definitely want to be on the teenager side. Yeah, I mean sorry. Would you like to do the second one as well? Okay, goodbye. Do you want me to act? I will do it now, this was your question at first. Listen, there's a reason we ask
this question. It's just kind of a funny back story from when we were covering mother line for Salem, but basically, Just would you rather would you rather get the sex talk from Aaron older are Iris older Aaron prioress or grandfather. You know? Like the birds and the bees. Wow. It's really funny because I kind of you know, right? As characters or as like people like be those actors 0 as K is
the characters. Yeah. I mean well I mean I would definitely talk to any of those actors about it. It'd be hilarious. Oh my gosh, that was it would be hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, I think out of the three characters, maybe I'd want to talk to grandfather I think because because parts of feel cold you know and and and she's like she's like a Terminator, you know?
And then so I'm not sure how you know, useful that conversation might be and then older, Aaron seems like she might get flustered more easily talking about it and where is like Grandpa. would just be kind of, like, pretty chilled out and matter of fact, Yeah, you're like older Aaron wouldn't like, actually get to anything. That is why? Because it would be amusing, but there is that question.
Always brings up some very interesting answers, no matter what show it goes to other two are very tame. That was the only Untamed one. I belong, Taylor, Hickson. Yes, who would you rather have? Is your younger sister Tiffany Aaron KJ or Mac? Wow. Yeah. See Tiffany KJ, I think, yeah, I probably wouldn't be able to handle a Mac, you know, it's very fair. Let's see. I think Aaron's probably too much like myself, so that, you know, I don't need, you know, I don't think that would be
interesting. I don't know, I think I'm going to go with Tiffani, I think you know it'd be interesting to have, you know, to have a younger sibling like her who's so driven, you know, and to be like, you know, and to see like how you can help, you know, help that person achieve what they want, you know, and then and what you can do, you know for them, you know. I but I guess that's more like being a teacher then and being an like an older sibling. So, but yeah, I'm gonna go with that.
Be careful what you wish for. I was that younger sibling. I was just called Annoying a lot right? Younger sir. Yeah. That's just like any younger sibling really well. I just got told I have made them feel stupid a lot. I mean. Fair enough. Okay, if you were to time travel, would you rather visit the 80s, the 90s, the early 2000s or prehistoric time period? Oh boy, Yeah, that's a really good question. I don't go with the 90s. Oh yeah, I feel like the 80s like technology-wise.
Like, feels like, like so different. Now that I don't know if I could, you know, like a lot of amenities, you know, wouldn't be around the 90s, you know? You know, it's when I was in high school and college. I think I could kind of make my way around a little bit easier and 2000's is to reset that just doesn't feel like, right. That's just yeah, that's it. Yeah, and prehistoric times would just not be good. It's just absolutely how hard, you know. Or something.
Yeah, there's some crazy like you know bacteria that just I was about to say you would get killed by the bacteria or viruses or whatever before any of that I would think but it was here, she would list on a bunch of different things. She's an infectious disease, special form, assist pharmacist. I think you made the correct choice because I would go back
to that time. Period just to like know everything that we know now about technology and you're at the cusp of when everything became like Mass you know. And when we first got the internet everywhere and everybody had computer started have computers and cell phones started to actually be you know, not gigantic. It's some point in the Layton so absolutely I'm with you on that one. I'd go back to the 80s or 90s just to know what Breeze talking about half the time.
Oh, for goodness sake, we love each other but it's thank you for telling us so much. But do you have any final words that you want to tell our listeners before we wrap up? No, I mean I just, you know, I would want to say, like, thanks for, you know, for reading the books and watching the show and like, you know, really embracing it. You know, I think it's, you know, again, I think we tried to do something that felt genuine, you know, and sincere.
And, you know, and really tried to take a look at, you know, you know, kind of the Interior life of young girls, but in the framework of this sci-fi, you know, adventure and you No, and I'm just so grateful for having, you know, the opportunity to, you know, to make to be a part of something that, you know, that made people really so happy. Well, that's thank you for creating this with your partner in crime, because it really was an amazing journey.
And we really, really hope that somebody picks it up for the TV show, for the love of Everything plan that more people read the books and maybe that would help more people to find the comics. So, Thank you very much. Thank you. And to everyone at home listening, make sure to check out paper girls, the TV show, and the books and follow cliff on Twitter at Cliff Chang. CLI will just link it below. Yes, so thank you for tuning in and we will see you next time.
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