Hi, I'm Britney Saunders, and welcome to Big Business, the place where business is far from boring. And today I'm recording on a wobbicle land. Now I somehow manage to build an empire from the garage underneath my house, and I'm here to share.
It all with you, from the winds.
The huge mistakes, the challenging times, and the funny moments in between. So, whether you're in business already, perhaps you're not in the game at all, Maybe you're just looking for some inspiration, or you just simply want to hear the tea, this is the podcast for you. Coming up on today's episode, I'm going to talk about what it's like to be a female business owner, CEO, entrepreneur in a man's world. I'm going to be talking about some
of the challenges that I myself have faced. I'm going to talk about some specific moments that have stood out to me when I've thought, holy fuck, if I was a man, then I'd be the mayor. And which, by the way, I love that Taylor's Swift song. I played it for AJ last night when I told him that I was doing this episode, and I don't think he's ever really heard that song, which, by the way, you need to listen to that song if you haven't heard it, The Man by Taylor Swift, and so I played it
for AJ. I said, listen to the words, and he was like, oh, this is really cool. Like I've never really heard this song or actually listened to the words. But I'm just going to be talking about what it's like to be a female founder and leader in a world where men rule everything. So without further ado, let's just get straight down to business.
So let's feel the tea.
What is it like to be a woman founder, CEO, entrepreneur, business owner, even manager or leader in a world where men are just favored. I can obviously speak about this because I'm a female CEO and founder, and I've definitely had some instances myself where it's in my tracks. But at the same time, I think I have never allowed a man to completely stop me. If anything, I think I just have this false sense of confidence or I've had it since the very beginning where I've never let
a man kind of doubt me. But there have been a few instances over the years, and I'm sure there's a lot that happened to me that I don't even realize because I'm so confident within myself. But I know for a lot of women, they don't have this like extreme weird confidence that I somehow have built over the years, and that you know, doing something ballsy or starting a business or applying for a loan or any of those things. It can be quite daunting, especially when you're dealing with men.
Now in my business, I weirdly deal with a lot of men, actually, even though it doesn't seem that way. Fate is a female dominated business and I absolutely love that we've got two guys in the company more. But the girlies just love Fate and when we put up a job at all, the girlies come pouring through. But we've got aj obviously my partner, and then we've got we've got Josh in the warehouse warehouse Josh. And we've had a few other guys over the years too, mainly
in the warehouse. But Fate is a female dominated company and I love that. It's not to say it hasn't come with its challenges over the years, but I absolutely love and am so proud to say that.
We employ so many women now.
One of the I guess first instances that really stood out to me when I was dealing with a man. And by the way, like, the way that I deal with men in my business is obviously not like internally, it's externally. It's all of our solicitors, it's our accountants, it's our real estate agents, because we've got what seven or eight bloody commercial leases like and most of the
people that we deal with are men. We've got our contractors, we've got our bin guys, we've got our posters, like just all these outside people that we deal with most of the time of men. And so I've got a bit of a story to tell you now. Ah yeah, I'm gonna say what one it was. And I mean no harm when I say this at all, like, and I know it was lighthearted, but it just made me think in the moment, if I was a guy, would this conversation be playing out the way that it is.
So fate this.
Was maybe three ish years ago now or two and a half years ago, we had our one store, we just had our one Newcastle store, and I made the crazy decision, fuck it, I'm going to open a store in Sydney, and so I ventured down and again I don't want to get in any sort of trouble for saying this, Like, whoever is listening from Westfield Miranda, I mean no harm by saying this.
I love you guys, I love the store there, but there was this this moment.
Okay, so I'm the The thing with me as well, is like I'll go and do everything by myself, Like I'm that confident in myself and my business and my brand that I reached out to all of these Westfields, which actually makes me think, just the thought that I'm having right now, I wonder because when you want to have a store in a Westfield or wherever, like you just find their people and you email them, like you can find their emails on their website like for retailers,
and you kind of pitch yourself to them. And I emailed a lot and I didn't hear back from a few, and that just made me think, I wonder if I had, like if there's shopping centers I've never heard back from, is that because I'm a woman, you know? Or would I be taken more seriously if I was a guy, Because some you just don't hear from hear back from
it all, and others you do. But anyway, Westfield Miranda, which is where our second Fate store is, like the second one we ever opened is in Sydney, and they were the first ones that got back to me when I reached out to a bunch in Sydney. So I locked in meeting with them and it was a girl and a guy, and I just so confidently drove down
to Sydney, like by myself. I'm this young girl, and the thing with me is like, yes, I'm professional, but when it comes to my business and being in meetings and doing all the things, even though it's like corporate, I quite literally just rock up as myself, like I don't ever try to pretend to be anyone else in my role, even though I'm a CEO, Like I don't walk in with a blazer and act all mighty and smart, like I just shove and go, how are you? Like,
I'm Brittany from Newcastle. What you see like on social media and the way that I portray myself on my podcast is exactly how I am when I'm meeting professionals. Sure I might be a little bit more professional, but I'll still be funny. And so I remember rocking up to Westfield Miranda again, no offense to Westfield Miranda, I love you guys. And I met with this guy and girl and Westfields and all shopping centers they essentially have
their own agents, right like the leasing agents. They're like an agent for the center and they look after all the tenants. And so I met these people. They were really nice, shook their hands and I always love shaking a guy's hand with like a bit of extra strength, just to be like, yeah, this is me and this is who I am. And then what you'll do when you go walking through a center is they will walk
you through and kind of show you around. And I'd never been there before, so they're showing me all the different areas. And then we get to the store that I was looking at, which is now our store and has been for like almost it's almost three years this year. Fucking hell, I don't know, but anyway, I don't want to talk about how fast the time is going.
Anyway.
I remember the guy that I was with, and he's in a suit. I'm there in my fucking jeens, and he started obviously questioning me about fate and about my business, and part of me gets it. You know, I'm this young blonde girl who's super energetic and I'm there by myself and don't look like a professional business owner. But what the fuck does a professional business owner look like? And so we're walking through the center. The lady that
was with him, she had done her research. She knew exactly who I was, she knew exactly who Fate was. She had seen our social media. Oh my god, there's another Okay, hold, I thought, there's also another story that I'm going to tell after this one, which just like jogged in my memory. And so he's questioning me about the business, about Fate, and I'm just talking about who we are, what.
We do, our size range, this, that and the other.
And I just got the sense from this guy, even though he was being really lovely, I felt like he was kind of laughing at me, and I felt like he was kind of doubting me. And I only had one other store, obviously, our Newcastle store at this stage, and it was performing exceptionally well, like I'm super confident in opening another store based off the store that we've had for however many years by that point, And we got to the store and we had to look through
I loved it. It was in shambles. If you remember seeing my content on Instagram, like we were going to have to give the whole thing a makeover. And then we started talking about figures and he was saying, oh, you know, like i'd expect if you were to move into this space, you would make about this much in
revenue for a year. And so we started throwing around figures and like sales figures, and I remember going, really, and I think the number that he said was less than what our Newcastle store was making at the time in a year, Like he said, in a year, he'd probably do this turnover, and I was like, oh really. I was like, no, I think we would do more because I was confident in fate and I know what our Newcastle store was making at the time. I was like, nah,
I think it would be actually more around this. And we kind of went back and forth and it was like him going na na, na, na, na, I don't think so, and me going.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And like I was being really funny with it. I'm like, is that a challenge?
And so I was being funny with him. It was banter, like it was not intended to be malicious or anything on his part, but we had this back and forth over what he thought I could generate in that store versus what I thought I could generate in that store. And I remember saying to him, is that a challenge? And he's like, yep, oh, put you up to the challenge. And we were laughing and it was funny and whatever. And this is why I don't want to get in trouble with Westfield.
Miranda or anything.
But I remember leaving after meeting them, both shaking their hands and I said, yep, let's keep the combo going.
I'm keen on this store. I want it.
And then I remember calling AJ on the way home, and it was one of the first things that I said to AJ was I felt like that guy was like underestimating me. I felt like he wasn't confident in me the way that I am. And that was one of the first moments where I thought, I wonder if I would have had that conversation with that guy if I was a man, would that conversation have gone that way and would have been like, oh, no, I don't think you'll make that much if I was a guy.
And that is just a little moment in my career and business journey that is stuck with me.
Yeah, it's really interesting that Hello, sorry, it is produced for they get to say who's jumping in for any new new listeners. It's really interesting that you've brought that up, because would he be questioning your knowledge and your understanding of your business and what you think it could generate if you were a man, Because I don't think he would have, and I don't think many other men would
question that. I think that they would accept that that male knew and understood his business well enough to give you an honest take on what they think they could make.
Absolutely, and I can't I can't remember what the figure was, but he and he would have been also talking, you know, based on the stats of the previous stores that had been in there, and like maybe those stores hadn't been as successful in that space.
But I remember him just.
Saying like you might generate like six hundred and fifty grand a year or whatever it was, and I was like, nah, I reckon, I'll do over a million in this space, and him instead of just him going oh, really like shit, like you must have a really good product or whatever, or a great community.
Or even asking you, oh, why do you think that you're going to you know what I mean?
Yeah, it was just this again. It wasn't malicious.
I just think like, if I was a guy, maybe that conversation wouldn't have gone that way. And what I found so much satisfaction in and what I find and will continue to find so much satisfaction in, is then we opened, you know, and we just go boom. And because you have to report your sales figures to Westfield.
I remember a massive change of tone in the way he spoke to me after that, and for months after that, it went from like having this funny, weird interaction the first time I met him, and then we ended up getting along really well, and he would call me and say, how's everything going, Oh my god, I heard.
How good you did on Saturday.
And then he wanted me to go into another Westfield because a lot of these agents look after a lot of Westfields.
And then it was brit I've got this other shop for you. Come and look at this other center in Sydney.
And I'm like, oh, well, well, well here we were.
You were thinking I was gonna make X amount.
I've knocked it out of the fucking park, and now you want my money in another center. So that's just a little fun story that I'll never forget another one. When I was venturing down to Melbourne to look at opening our store there again, I started with all the shopping centers everyone knows.
Now.
I ended up going with a boutique in Hawthorne. Go visit the girlies down there if you're ever around. But again, I have a lot of experience with going and meeting these center managers and leasing agents and whatever. And I was super excited about this one because it's like the biggest shopping center down there. I don't really want to say which one because I don't want to get in trouble in because I'm not a tenant there, but like the big shopping center down there that everyone raves about.
I spoke with the guy there and I locked in for ajen myself to fly down to go and see one of the stores there and see the center. And I had been emailing back and forth with this guy and we locked it in. He knew that I was flying down, he knew that I had booked flights, blah blah blah blah blah. When we got to the center, I was just immediately disappointed because I could tell that
he hadn't even looked up who who we were. And the thing that solidified it for me that he'd done no research was he asked if we are using social media.
For our business and I was like, yeah, we're using social media for our business. We're like one of the biggest brands in the country on social.
Are And so I never pursued that center and I never emailed that guy after that meeting because he ruined it for me, and I just wonder like, was that just him or did he not bother looking into anything that I do or fate because I'm a woman, like, I'll never really know, but that was just another little instance for me. Now let's get onto some of the other common challenges that female leaders, entrepreneurs CEOs may face. Obviously, what I've touched on for this whole episode so far
is just simply not being taken seriously. I think that's something that applies in life in general. You know, women are never taken as seriously as men. Sorry to all the men listening, but surely if you're listening to this podcast in general, you're a girl's guy, you know.
But it's just not being taken seriously.
And I'm sure that I have not been taken seriously a billion times by men that I speak with, But maybe I just don't notice it because I'm just so confident in myself that I'm probably shaking hands with these guys and like, who the fuck is this girl? But I've just got this like fearless confidence about myself that I don't even notice it anymore. But there obviously are those moments that stand out, and I'll always remember those.
Now another weird one which is personal to me and I think also probably to a lot of other female more so leaders like this could even apply to like management positions, you know, people that are are bosses in workplaces. Is I've dealt with some experiences over the years with staff, like going back to my staff and us being a
female dominated workplace. I've dealt with a lot of experiences, and at the end of it all I have said out loud and said to my colleagues or said to AJ I've said to myself, I wonder if that person would have treated me that way if I was a fifty year old man. So obviously females aren't taken seriously in life in general anywhere near as much as men are.
And without like going to in detail, I've dealt with some staff conflicts over the years, especially like in my early development years and like when we opened up our first couple of stores, and I've had some people treat me in ways that's just like completely thrown me off guard, whether it's people saying personal attacks against me. I've had staff members that have been exiting the company, especially in my earlier days when I didn't know how to handle
those kinds of situations. And I've just some of the shit that I've had, like past staff members say to me, where I've thought after it all and like once it's all finished and we're done with the fucking drama, not that it's drama with the situation where I've turned to AJ and I've said, I don't think that previous employee would have spoken to me in that way or treated me that way if I wasn't a thirty year old girl, because I just couldn't ever imagine in a million years
some of the stuff that people have said to me. I couldn't imagine them acting that way towards a fifty year old guy, Like it just wouldn't happen. So whilst it's amazing to have this female dominated company and all of these female staff members. I've also feel like I've experienced firsthand the negatives of being a female in a position of authority and power, where my own staff have not taken me seriously enough or have felt like they could say shit to me that they wouldn't dare to
say to a man or an older man. And yeah, that's just like another thing that I thought was worth pointing out.
Do you find that your assertiveness and your role as a boss is perceived differently than someone like aj who also has a senior role within your company.
Do you think, like in terms of my staff, a.
Lot of the time, men who are assertive and who are confident it's view differently to when a woman does it, And a lot of people kind of get their back up about that, and or they could find it bitchy or they could find it cold.
Yeah, definitely, I think this is just like social bias.
I don't know if that's the right word, but when a female is assertive, let's say, for example, someone has done something and they need to be spoken to. You know, Hey, I'm going to pull you up on this because XYZ.
It can come not it can come across. But people might see that as Oh, she's being a bitch, or she's being rude, or she's attacking me, or she's being nasty, Like I feel like that can often be people's first thing that they want to think and say instead of Oh, this is my boss and she's giving me some constructive feedback about something that I'm maybe didn't do the best
and I need to improve or learn better for next time. Whereas, yeah, if AJ had delivered that message to them, I don't think you know, anyone would go AJ's a bitch and AJ is personally attacking me. But because that message is being delivered from a female, it can be so different. It can be personal when at the end of the day, as a leader or a manager, when you're delivering a message to someone, it's never personal. It's just business and
it's just you doing your job. But because you're a female, oh she's a bitch because she did this, when that's literally not the case at.
All, even for my self, brit Like, I'm a man, and even now, like even and through situations that I'm in throughout life, I am clocking myself and noticing that I need to really unravel a lot of these societales expectations that we have put on men and women and their different roles and how I perceive that energy that
I'm given. So say, for example, if I hypothetically have a female boss, society has trained us to have this view that like, man are the leaders, and man are the ones who are the bosses, and they're the ones who are gonna, you know, give us our directives. And we're in an age now where and it's really amazing that we have so many incredible female leaders stepping forward
and really taking up space. But we're also in a position where that bias is still there and I see it in myself and I try and work on that myself. But it's just such an interesting topic to think about.
It's just ingrained in society and it's been that way forever. It's a man's world at the end of the day. And I think that's really like big and great of
you that you can actually clock that within yourself. There's been so many times over the years, like where we are dealing with HR related things in our workplace and it's always very highly emotionally strung and I go home to AJ and I'm like, fuck, like I'm dealing with this at work today and it's so personal and it's so emotional when at the end of the day, I'm
just trying to do my job. And I've had so many moments, especially more recently, where I've thought, I wonder if and again I don't want to be like surrendering, but I've thought to myself, this would be so much easier if AJ was the CEO and I wouldn't have to deal with this kind of stuff because and I've just thought this for my own sake, like I mentally can't deal with this kind of stuff and focus.
On growing the company.
And you know, one minute I'm in a HR meeting and something's fucking going to shit, and then next minute, I've got to go out and make a funny warehouse video. Like I'm flinging myself around. But I've literally thought, like, at any point, should AJ be the CEO so that I don't have to deal with like the emotional side
of this. And then it makes me think, I reckon if AJ was doing my job and he was sitting in on these HR meetings and delivering these messages to people, if they're not the nicest messages, maybe it would be a lot fucking easier, But why does it have to be that way?
You know, do you ever feel like you're watching how you're saying things because you're a woman.
Yeah, Like I'm so mindful with the way that I say everything always, especially when I'm dealing with a delicate situation and the fucked thing as well, like speaking to this whole topic of like men and women some of the stuff that like we've dealt with over the years, and like I'm always honest about this on my podcast, Like, yeah, Fate is an amazing workplace, but we still deal with
staffing issues. Like you can't avoid that no matter what business or brand you are or how amazing everything is.
It's just funny as well, when let's say we're dealing with a scenario and we're having to put someone on a performance plan, which is not fun by the way, or you're having to see someone exit the company, and like I go home and I like trauma dump onto AJ about my day and he always goes fucking hell, Like this is so different because AJ is a trade by trade and he used to work like up in the minds and he says to me, you know, if something like this had happened, or if someone said that
to our boss at the at the mind sight, the boss would go, get the fuck off my site and see you later, and that would be it. But then females have to deal with things in such different ways, and I'm like why, like it just it's all doesn't make sense. And AJ's like, God, if this was happening at my workplace back in the day, would have told to get fuck off and you'd.
Never see him again.
Whereas like, females have to be so we don't have to be, but we are so much more delicate with the way that we deal with everything. But men can literally tell someon to get fucked and fuck off the job site and that's it. Like why do they do that? I don't know.
It's extremely interesting.
Topic, Xander, but I thought we've been talking for ages, so I want to just go over quickly. A few other challenges more so, like maybe not ones that I've experienced myself, but just challenges that females will or may
experience in the workplace or throughout their entrepreneurial career. Now, one thing that I found really interesting was the fact that women are statistically less likely to receive venture capital or large business loans now, I don't have any investors, I've never taken out a loan, so I can't speak from my own experience on this, but I just found that so crazy, and I can't remember where I saw it, but I think it's like a two percent of all
capital that's given out goes to females, like the rest is dominated by males, and there's a bias that investors, which are mainly men, will just automatically take more interest in a company that is owned by a male when it comes to giving them money to grow their business, whereas females might have to work a lot harder to prove to the men that they deserve an investment in their company. And again, that is just why, like why is that a thing that is just the craziest thing to me.
It's even more crazy that it wasn't that long ago that like, women couldn't even get their own credit cards or loans without the permission of their husband.
So can you imagine.
So I think a lot of that bias is still ingrained in a lot of older men because they lived through a time where that was the norm, and they're still in a lot of control of these situations.
I think another thing that a lot of female founders will experience, and I think I've experienced here and there on social media. But again, I've got like a really great community online. But it's being judged on social media for being a women, being a woman in power and
putting yourself out there on social media. And I know I've seen articles popping up on Facebook or whatever and it's like female founder makes ten million dollars and then you go to the comments and it's all men being like, ah, she just.
Is a slut. Like sorry to say that word on my podcast. You can beat that out if you want, Zander.
But like you see that yourself on social media, or oh, she's just fame hungry, or she's just popular, she's just successful because of her looks, like, you know, being more critically judged on social media for maybe bragging about your successes. I know I even still feel weird bragging about my successes because I'm worried that people are going to say you're bragging. But if I was a man and I said, hey, look at me, I made a million dollars in this cell, they'd go fucking good on your mate.
You're the men. But if it's a female.
They're like, don't brag about money. You shouldn't talk about money in that way.
Why men can.
There's so many the things obviously not being taken as seriously in work, not taken as seriously, but people who are obviously moms, or when they go off work to become a mom and then they struggle to perhaps get back into the workforce or they struggle to have career progression. Again, I think this is just like a standard bias that's out there in society. And you know, mothers get so shamed on or seen as less than or that they can't run a business or have a career because they've
got kids. There's so much of that, which again, like I can't speak from my own experience because I'm not a mother, but I know for a fact that that is an area that women struggle with when it comes to careers and business ownership and entrepreneurship. I mean, there's so many things that women struggle with, and I think the biggest one out of all of them is that people, like the whole theme of this episode, which has just
been people not taking them seriously. And it's something that I've definitely experienced myself, probably more than I have been aware of, but at the end of the day, I just move forward with full confidence with every single thing that I do. And there are those moments that I've experienced where I've gone, holy shit, would you be saying this to me if I was a guy. But I don't let them get to me or get me down. If anything, it gives me more fuel to keep going.
And when someone is doubting my business or saying, what is it that you're selling? You're selling clients, Oh, how's that going for you? Like I've even had people say to me like, oh, good luck with that, like in that kind of tone, and I'm like, what do you mean?
Good luck with that?
But I honestly, I think there definitely needs to be a change in society, and we are seeing a bit of a change, like more females in power, more females in politics obviously, more females in business ownership and in leadership positions in general. But I think society needs to let go.
Oh of all of these.
Societal thoughts that have been ingrained into all of us, because women rule and men would be nothing without us.
I'm just gonna come right out and say it, who run the world? Girls.
Beyonce said that once and she was so right. Women are the best and men would be nothing without us. Yeah, they run the world, but they do everything for us.
At the end of the day. I think I'm gonna tell myself that anyway.
But yeah, this has been a fantastic episode, and hey, maybe this will leave you thinking in a different way. Maybe the next time your female manager gives you some feedback, instead of automatically thinking, oh, she's such a bitch, you know, stop yourself and your thoughts and think, is this person actually being a bitch or personally attacking me? Or is she just doing her job and you're just thinking that way because she's a female. It is food for thought anyway.
As always, I'm going to end today's episode with a tip of the week, and this is more of a motivational quote. I saw this on social media and I loved it and I wrote it down and I thought, I'm going to share this as my tip of the week and it can just be something that.
All of us can remember and be mindful of.
And the quote is, maybe you don't realize how far you've come because you keep raising the bar.
Oh.
I freaking love that and this is great for myself as well.
I'm always like chasing the next thing or feeling like I'm not achieving enough, but that's because I keep raising the bar for myself. The bar was once very low. Now it's extremely high. But if I go back and look at that very first bar, it was so low
compared to where I am now. So the next time you feel like you're not getting anywhere or you're not achieving anything, really look back at where where you started, and also remember the reason why you're feeling like you're not achieving enough or you can't reach it, just because you keep lifting that bar higher and higher. So I think that's a good thing.
Anyway. I hope you've enjoyed today's episode.
Please feel free to rate my podcast five stars if you haven't already, and if you have a question for me, if you want me to talk about something on the pod, if you have a follow up question to any of my episodes, please send us a DM on my Big Business Podcast Instagram account. That is where we keep up to date with everyone's dms and we see them all. Xander's in there too in the dms. He took over
my stories the other day. Xander, I was hoping that you would actually do like a video of yourself on there.
I was going to but then like I didn't want to steal your thunder.
You have my permission, You.
Have my permission as a female to a male. You have my permission to get on my stories every now and then if you want.
And I received that no, thank you.
Anyway, that's all for this week's episode.
I'll be back later this week with the main and in the meantime, make sure to chase after your dreams as if they owe you money.