Hi, I'm Britney Saunders and welcome to Big Business, the place where business is far from boring. And today I'm recording on Gadigel Land. Now I somehow manage to build an empire from my garage and I'm here to share it all with you, from the winds, the huge mistakes, the challenging times and funny moments in between. So, whether you're in business already, you're wanting to start, or you're not even in business at all and you're just looking for some inspiration, you want to hear a good story
or the tea, this is the podcast for you. Coming up in today's episode, we're talking all things sizing at Fate. Our size range starts at six and goes right through to size twenty six. We offer our full size range in every single style that we make, both online and throughout all of our stores. So why do some brands only go to a twelve or a fourteen or a sixteen? Why do some brands only do some styles in extended
sizing and then others not? And how can Fate offer such a great size range but other big brands don't. I'm going to be sharing a lot of my thoughts with you on this topic today. So, as you know, time is money, So let's get down to business now. I've got to give a massive shout out to one of my followers on my Big Business Podcast Instagram account, whose name is Caitlyn. I won't expose your whole name. Caitlyn sent me a DM that was quite lengthy and
it's what inspired me to make this episode. I feel like making this episode was always on my to do list, but she's kind of mapped out the whole episode for me. So shout out to you, Caitlin. This episode's few and I'm going to be dming it to you when it comes out. Caitlyn has sent through a bunch of amazing questions, so her DM starts with this. It's no secret that Fate is leading the way in size inclusive fashion. This is a huge gap in the market, especially in physical stores.
Why are you one of the only brands.
That does this? What a good question, and I haven't written.
Down anything else to this episode, so I'm quite literally just swinging it here. So why are we one of the only brands that does this? There's a further part to the question too. There's obviously some brands making an effort with having curve ranges, et cetera. But your point of difference is that every item is available in every size. So why I'm not saying that we're the only brand
that does the sizing that we do. There are a lot of others out there, But in saying that, it is still a small amount of brands in comparison to how many brands are actually out there.
So why are we one of the only ones that does this?
Now? The funny thing is on this topic and when talking about inclusive sizing and inclusive fashion, I don't know if anyone notices this, but I and we don't call ourselves an inclusive clothing brand. We don't use those words anywhere. We don't, you know, preach that. We don't say we're an inclusive fashion brand, whereas like maybe a lot of other people would. And the reason for that is, inclusivity goes a lot further beyond just sizing. Inclusivity is a
whole lot of other things. That's why you never actually see me saying I own an inclusive fashion brand, because when it comes to inclusivity, there's so many different avenues of it. We obviously do size A six through to twenty six. We could do sizes lower, we could do sizes higher. Like, there really is no end to inclusivity, and it also goes in different areas beyond sizing. So that's one little fun fact for you all. I never
actually say that. And one of the funny things about us doing sizes six to twenty six is I forget how powerful it is that we do that, because that is the norm to us. We have done our size range for however many years now. Mind you, we never started out doing all of these sizes. It was something that I built over years, and I think that's a really hard thing for anyone that is getting into fashion.
I don't think it's achievable for someone to launch a clothing brand and straight off the bat offer every single size because obviously the more sizes that you're doing, the more of a commitment you're making, the more of a scary thing it is to do. We started out with just sizes six to fourteen, like most brands do, and I very quickly learned we need to do more than this, so I then added sixteen, eighteen, twenty twenty two, twenty
four to twenty six. It was a gradual thing and I don't want to be out here saying like I own this inclusive fashion brand and we've always done amazing, Like I started small like everyone else, and like slowly worked my way up. But we've obviously been doing these sizes for however many years now.
And I always say that I.
Live in my little bubble in Newcastle where it's just Fate and it feels like I'm living in a Fate bubble and there's nothing else in the world, and I often forget just how powerful it is that we do those sizes. And I've said this before. I'm not sure if I've said it on the podcast, but I've definitely said it on my social media. I forget how powerful
it is. And what reminds me of it is when we open a new store and I get to meet people in person and they're coming in to shop with us, maybe for the first time, because a lot of people are too scared to shop online these days, so maybe when we open up a new store, they will come to our store and that's the first time that they're
shopping with us, which is so cool. And it's then when I'm out in the real world meeting people, meeting customers that I'm reminded that what we're doing is actually really fucking cool, and it's not something that a lot of brands are doing. Because I have customers come in, let's say there are size twenty, and they're going around our store. They're picking things off the racks. I'm watching them go into the change room. I'm watching them step out.
They've got tears rolling down their eyes because they have been able to find genes that them amazingly and they say like this is everything to me, Like this has absolutely changed the game for me. And it's at that point that I go, Shit, what we're doing is actually really cool, and I think it's just something that I forget. I guess because I'm in that Fate bubble and we've had our Newcastle store for over four years and we just always have people of all different shapes and sizes
coming and going into our stores. I forget that that's not the way that it is everywhere else. And that's just something that I thought it was worth touching on. I never like to say that we are a brand that's doing everything at the absolute most and that we're the best, but I definitely do think that we are doing a lot of great things that a lot of other brands aren't. So why are we one of the only brands that does this. There's a lot of reasons
why other brands maybe don't. Number one, I don't think we should put pressure on smaller brands to be able to do what we are doing. It's not it's not especially if someone's starting up a business by themselves. They simply can't afford to make the risk of coming out with all these sizes straight off the bat. But I think more so in Caitlyn's messages, she's probably asking about the bigger brands. She's asked, is it the cost of
material in making bigger sizes? Yes, if I'm being completely just straightforward and honest with you, the more sizes that you're doing, the more fabric that you're using, and the.
More it's going to cost.
But I always look at it like if any big brand out there used that as an excuse, especially if they're bigger than Fate or been around a lot longer than we have, I don't see that as an excuse because I'm single handedly funding this business myself, and there's brands out there that would have investors and all sorts of capital, So I know brands have used that excuse in the past. Oh, it's just too much fabric and it's too much of a risk with the cost. That's
a lot of shit. Caitlyn also said, is it and I hate to say it reputation and only wanting to target a demographic of smaller bodied people. And I get where she's coming with that, saying she hates to say it, but I think that's probably one of the biggest reasons
why brands don't do extended sizing. I feel like I'm going to be pissing off so many people with this episode, but I definitely think there's obviously a lot of fat phobia in the world and especially in the fashion industry, and brands do want to have a certain look, which is sad and it makes no sense to me at all. But I'd say that in itself would have to be one of the biggest reasons why certain brands only go to a certain size, especially if they're a large business.
It's not because they can't afford it. It's not because the customers aren't there. There's no demand. Like trust me, there is the demand, because I'm living proof of it. I think the number one reason is because they don't want bigger bodied people to be seen in their closed because it doesn't fit their aesthetic. But what has opened my eyes is owning our retail stores, seeing how not included a lot of people are, especially when it comes
to in store shopping. If a brand is only going to a size large or extra large or whatever, and especially if it's a physical retail store, that is that brand saying sorry, like if you're a size bigger, two sizes bigger, three sizes bigger, you are literally.
Not welcome in here.
And I have always said I could never own retail stores if I only went to a certain size.
Because how could you live with yourself?
How could you live with yourself if you're like, oh, we only go to a fourteen. Sorry, if you're a
size sixteen, eighteen, twenty, you can't come in here. And then it creates this whole thing of friends not being able to shop with one another because what if one of them is a size six but the other friend is a size eighteen, They then can't go shopping together in the same shop, Like the size eighteen friend would just have to then awkwardly be in the shop but know that they can't find their size on the rack
and that's why our stores are so special. We have experienced fat phobia from people walking past our stores and.
People have said things to me.
For example, when we open our stores, I'm always there at the opening kind of thing. And when we open our Westfield Miranda store in Sydney, I was there for like two weeks and I always was like standing out the front and like saying hello to people and welcoming them in because I was just like so happy to be there and welcoming people.
In and just me alone.
I had two different instances because we have mannequins in the window and one mannequin is a size six and the other ones like a size fourteen, so like an average size. And I had two separate women walk past and look up at the mannequin and look at me, and they said things to my face like is this a shop for fat women?
And like turning their nose up at it.
And this I experience is in real life, like people saying, oh, like yuck, when we've got this curvy mannequin that has big boobs and that's just me. Like then, our staff when we did that opening experience a lot of fat phobia from people. A lady came in and these are obviously people that are not in our community. Like the people that come in our community love it, but it's like random people that are.
Coming in because we're in a Westfield.
And our general manager M, who was like a size eight, she was working there because it was like our store opening and whatever, and a lady and it's always more like middle aged ladies are a little bit older, like they don't just fucking they don't get it. And she said to M, why are you working here? This is a shop for fat people? And M was like, you
have missed the whole fucking point. Like we obviously all know that fat phobia is a real thing in today's society, but working in fashion and doing the sizes that we do has opened my eyes to it in in in real life. And it's just it's absolutely wild because anyone that would look at our store and be like, oh, I'm not going to shop there because you know they do size twenty or whatever, like, you have completely missed the point.
And I think.
Especially for us people that we hire. We don't hire people based on their body shape, obviously, but I think one really great thing that has come out of fate is like, we do have women of all different shapes and sizes working for us in our warehouse, you our office, and in our stores. But I think it's been a really good lesson for our staff who are like naturally a size six and like really slim naturally and never had any kind of issues when it comes to shopping
for clothes. Like I've had my employees say to me like, this has really opened my eyes to how much of a problem this actually is. Because understandably, if you are a size six and you've been a size six your whole life, and you've always just been able to go and get your size no matter what, your eyes aren't open to like the struggles that some people face because you just don't know, like you'd have never experienced that.
So I've received that kind of feedback from our staff as well to be like, wow, this is really like open my eyes to how excluded some people have felt when it comes to buying clothes. And that brings me on to Caitlin's next question. Is it ignorance of the demand, I'd say absolutely. I think more so it would be the previous question, like reputation and only wanting to target
a demographic of smaller bodied people. I'd hands down say that like the big brands out there that stop at a size fourteen or sixteen, they just simply don't want to do those sizes, which makes no sense to me at all when not a plus size brand. I am trying to bridge the gap in between this whole straight
size and plus size thing and even some stores. Now you'll go into some stores and they'll have all their straight sizes, but then there'll be one little section in the store that has their plus sizes, and that, yes, you're doing something like you're trying and you're including more people.
But what is that.
Saying that it's only a small little section of the shop and it's like shoved in the back corner, and like someone will go in and go, hey, I'm a size eighteen, Like where's the size eighteen's? Like, oh, up there in the back corner. What is that saying? That's not being inclusive, that's trying to be maybe a little bit performative, but like pushing everyone into a corner, Whereas what we're doing with Fate is just making it everyone being able to shop together. It's not small sizes and
bigger sizes it's just sizing. So is it ignorance of the demand. Caitlin asked, perhaps it is. Perhaps some of these brands are owned by people that have been a size six their whole life and they're none the wiser.
It could definitely be that as well.
But in saying that, just like open your eyes, like go walk around, Like go to a Westfield and look at every like you could do market research by literally going to a Westfield and walking around and looking at all the body shapes, Like you don't walk around Westfield and see everyone that looks like a size six beautiful Instagram model, Like you walk around and everyone is so diverse. So I don't understand why brands would ever say, oh,
it's because there's no demand or whatever. And exactly like, look at Fate and look at us and look at what we're doing. I have done it just me, and these brands are huge. If I can do it, anyone can, especially if they're bigger than me. Caitlin also asked, is it a manufacturing or design issue? It definitely can be. There would be certain manufacturers out there that wouldn't want to make a certain size for whatever reason, like maybe
that's not how their business works or whatever. But again, if I have done it, and if I have made connections over the years and built relationships and found manufacturers that are willing to do any size that I want, then I don't see why other bigger brands can't, especially when they would be way more well connected than I am. Like I'm still relatively new to this. And I even had he's a bit of tea for you all I had,
And no shame to this person. I'm obviously not gonna name names, but I had the owner of a women's fashion brand in Australia reach out to me like just wanting to connect and whatever, and I'm all for that, and she straight up asked me, like, how are you
coming out with so many sizes? Like I can't seem to find manufacturers that want to And it just blows my mind because this is someone that's been in business for like fifteen plus years, and I'm like, I figured it out in the first couple of years, Like you're not trying hard enough, like put in the work and do it, like you've got the experience, you've got the stuff, Like you can make it happen. Caitlin has also asked does Fate experience any losses by providing bigger sizes, not
at all. I think maybe the only loss that we would experience by offering more sizes, but it's not really a lot, is losing those customers that would think that they don't want to shop with us because they don't want to shop from a brand that does all those sizes, like those nasty women that have walked past me in our Westfield stores. But is that really a loss because I don't want those kinds of people shopping with me anyway,
because they literally just don't get it. So I would say, no, Caitlyn, we do not experience any losses at all, Like it's nothing.
Nothing but gains.
And Caitlyn's last question is do you find that the bigger sizes in your brand sell just as much as the smaller sizes.
Absolutely.
It's a gamble when it comes to fashion, especially when we're coming out with new styles or things that we haven't made before. So it's always a bit of a guessing game when we are making a new style. You know, oh, how many size sixteens do we order? And how many size eights do we order? And that's a huge part of our job is looking at the history of how many we sell in this, that and the other. But I think we've done a pretty good job at it.
Our best selling sizes in Fate are sizes fourteen, sixteen, and then eighteen.
Is that right, AJ?
We've got AJ in the studio and they're the most popular and quickest selling sizes and they are in the middle. So like that in itself there is proof that. Then obviously there are sizes on either side of that that are going to sell. And that's why I don't get when brands out that the demand isn't there, Like it absolutely is. All of our sizes sell, and we listen to our community a lot and learn from them about what kinds of styles they want to see us come
out with. And that's the hardest thing as well. When you are catering to such a broad range of sizes, it is hard to make a piece of clothing that every single size is going to love.
Whereas maybe when brands are.
Just say doing six to twelve like it's very niche, and they're like, we know that size six to twelve will like love this style, where it is more tricky when you are making one item in a bunch of different sizes because not everyone's going to love it.
So that's another huge part of our job as well, is.
We want to make all of our pieces in all of the sizes, But then I'm also mindful that not everyone's going to feel comfortable in the exact same piece, But that's just a part of the business. I guess one of the good things about us at Fate and the kinds of styles that we make is we are most well known for making like your everyday capsule wardrobe, basic pieces, like pieces that everyone is generally going to
love and get a lot of weares out of. I know there's a lot of brands out there that are more specific where they might be doing clubbing outfits or like skimpy bikinis, and I think doing something niche like that would definitely make it a lot harder, especially if you are catering to more sizes. The hard thing with fashion as well is sizing and how people feel in their clothes is completely subjective and it's different for every person.
And the crazy thing is as well. Let's say, for example, we have a pair of genes, and let's say we have two customers who are both a size twenty two. They come into our store and these size twenty two customers, let's say their body shape is even really similar. They could both.
Try on that same pair of genes.
One could love it and one could hate it, because it all comes down to the individual and how they feel in a piece of clothing. And that's one thing that my eyes again have been really open to, is you can't make a size twenty two pair of genes and say every size twenty two customer is going to absolutely love them. You know, someone could love it, someone could hate it. But we communicate a lot with our Fate community. We even made a Facebook group just like
two months ago and it's called Fate Society. And because we obviously have our social media and stuff and people can comment on our social media and whatever, but we wanted to take it to the next level and have a place.
Where our community could talk back to us.
So we created this Facebook group literally two months ago, and we just put it up on our socials and said, join this group. We want to have a place where we can talk to you, but you can talk to us and you can post your photos and everyone else can talk. And it's been like the highlight of our business this year. So far in two months, we've already got nearly fifteen thousand members and it is absolutely popping off.
And it's been great because it gives us an avenue where our customers can have that extra connection with us and they can have their say.
And so now what.
We're doing in there is I'm posting like photos of all of our samples, being like, what do you think about this, I'm working on this for summer, and then they can all jump in and have their say, and it's just been amazing because that's another thing like I think with a lot of these big, bigger businesses that aren't doing more sizes, is they're not listening to the people. They're just coming out with what they want instead. So having that Facebook page has been the best thing that
we've done this year. But another area that we get such valuable feedback from on our styles is in our stores, because we're not just having customers ordering online and getting it at home and trying it on home and we don't.
Get to hear what their feedback is.
We've got our stores where customers come in, they're trying on stuff in front of us, they're stepping out of the change room, they're saying, oh, I don't like this, I don't like that, And I think that's one of the most important parts of our business and our community is that our customers do feel really open sharing their
feedback with us. And I'm open to hearing that because I started this business in the garage underneath my house and thought nothing of it, and that was I guess it was a selfish thing for me to start because I wanted to start the business for me. But now it's about everyone else, Like fate is no longer about me and what I want to do. I'm doing it for everyone that shops with us. I love being able
to hear feedback from our community. So all in all, thank you so much, Caitlin for sending through these questions. I don't have a definitive answer of why brands don't extend their sizing. It's a myriad of reasons. But at the end of the day, I guess all I can say to it is if I who funds this business alone, I don't have any investors or any sort of money there are that getting given to me. If I can manage to do it all on my own, other brands
that are bigger than us and have been around longer. Fuck, why can't I talk just lead this in. There's no reason why they can't. There's no reason other than the fact that they don't want to or they're too lazy to do their research and figure out how to make it happen. Mark my word in this podcast, see where I am in five years from now, Fate's taken over.
I'm waiting for us to get so big that one of them is going to come in and offer to buy us. Like, why are they not? Am I wrong?
Aj? I couldn't, but you know what I mean, Like they should be scared. I'm very passionate about this. In case you can't tell anyway, Thank you all so much for listening, and thank you to Caitlin for sending through your questions. You have made this episode amazing. My tip of the week and this is a really good one. It's really going to help you all out. Join our Facebook group, which is Fate Society on Facebook. Genuinely, it is the most positive thing I have seen on the
Internet in a long time. We have so many posts happening in there every day that we're like trying to slow it down, and it's just the most amazing supportive community. Our customers are posting their outfit photos in there, and then it's just like hundreds of comments hyping everyone up. And that's what we just need to see more of in the world, especially with women supporting women, where we're so often pitted against one another when it comes to
social media. Join our Facebook group if you want to have a positive experience and a safe space to be online. Anyway, my friends, that is all for today's episode, all the usual things. Make sure you subscribe me five stars please. I upload new episodes every Monday, and I now have my bonus episodes on Wednesday, so I'll be in your ears on Wednesday and until next time. Why are you laughing at me saying I'll be in your ears? You just told him it was on Wednesday twice?
Oh did I?
I've been talking a lot forgive me until next time. As you all know, chase after your dreams as if they owe you money.