To Make a Killing

name Pagun. But what they didn't know is that Swiss authorities had a different name on file. According to the kids Brazilian passport, his real name was Joseph Plague. But here's the secret. Neither name was real. Joseph Poague and Pagun, we're just aliases. The twelve year old's real name was Kim Chang Un, and for the next four years, the Michael Jordan's loving son of a tyrant would use these phony personas to conceal his identity and gallivant around Europe undetected,

just like his older brother. But what's most fascinating about Kim Dongan's fake Brazilian passport isn't the alias or the country of origin. What's most intriguing is that the document lists his father as a man called Ricardo Poague, who was he Well, Ricardo Plague was a real person, at least the fake name of a real person, but we know that he was a top level North Korean official, one who traveled to Europe regularly, often staying in luxury hotels.

According to Anna Fifield's book, Ricardo was quote charged with buying buildings for the North Korean ruling class. And if that's any indication, we have a good idea about the man's real identity. We don't know for sure her Ricardo Plague was um, but there has been suggested that Jang Song Tech was that person. Chang's Hung Tech, the uncle of both Kim jongan and Kim Chong nam, widely considered one of the most influential people in the regime. Juan Song Tech's role in the regime was to go out

into the world. He was very mercurial, gregarious character h and he was in charge of a lot of economic liaison with the outside world, mostly with China, but he also traveled quite a lot in Europe. In the nineties, Chang Song tech was one of the most powerful men in North Korea. Decades earlier, he had married Kim Jong il sister and became a close confidante to the dear leader. He was always on the move, traveling the world undercover,

securing deals to help fund the regime. He was so powerful that, as you may remember, some pundits called him quote the Kim jong Il who goes abroad. It's hard to overstate how close Kim Jong Il and Chang Song pech were. He acted as a father figure to the Supreme Leader's children, change even personally held auditions for the women in Kim Jong Il's harem. And during the two thousand's some North Korea watchers speculated that Chang could be

chosen to lead the nation. Of course, that honor would go to Tongues or should we say Ricardo Poague's fake Brazilian son. But that decision didn't nooter Uncle Chan's power, because when Kim Jong n took over in twenty eleven, it was Chang who helped shepherd his nephew through North Korea's bureaucracy. It was Chang who helped him build relationships with the Polite Bureau. It was Chang who built apartments and resorts to glorify the new ruler, and it was

Chang who served as Kim Jongan's closest advisor. Chang Song tech essentially functioned as Kim Jongan's chief of staff. The two were like father and son, like Ricardo and Joseph Plague. But Uncle Tong harbored a secret, one that linked him to King Chong Nam, and one that would reportedly soon have him staring down the barrel of an anti aircraft gun.

I'm eating lee and in this episode, dirty money, risky reform, and failed coups inside the money making schemes that may have had several members of the Kim dynasty to gamble with their lives. There are also plenty of suggestions that he was still in cohots with the regime. North Korean diplomat stationed abroad have really behaved like a criminal mob and you could see Jong Song text saying, why am I going to turn over my life's work to my

snot nose twentysomething nephew, This is big brother. When the Japanese journalist Yoji Komi first reported on Kim Jong Nam's criticisms of the regime. The DPRK responded with fury, sending the prince into a brief hiding or, as Kim Jong Nam told Comey, I just have to be careful. But things eventually cooled over. Kim Jong Il was running the country. He still loved his son, so the risks of needling the regime were relatively low. But things were different when

Comey published his book. Kim Jong Il was dead and Kim Jong Un was now in charge, and nobody knew how he'd react to his brother's inflammatory comments. It didn't help that Kim Jong nam had suggested that North Korea should liberalize its economy and claim that the best hope for reform was not his little brother but Uncle Tong. Michael Madden explains, probably Jong probably had different ideas as to what North Korea's economy should be doing. In a

North Korean context, he was most likely a reformer. In fact, Uncle Chang had a proven track record of nudging the country in new directions. Evidence of are some evidence that there were certain relaxations of social policies in North Korea under Joan Song text leadership of the Internal Security Apparatus, A toleration of religious activities, both Christianity and Shamanism. And there was a certain degree of clemency and pardon given to people who fled illegally into China to seek work

or to seek economic relief, for to seek food. Uncle Chang's influence was very real. A little more than a decade earlier, change may have nudged Kim Jong il toward reform. The Supreme Leader had adopted a new constitution, one that embraced quote prime costs, prices and profits. Profits. Now, that wasn't very communist. Neither was a new constitutional article calling for quote enterprises with corporations or individuals of foreign countries.

The foreign country being Uncle Tong's friend China. Jong was very much aligned with China, whereby Chinese investment money would come into North Korean economic sites. Years later, can even pushed to create multiple economic zones along the border, miniature capitalist fifdoms that functioned as incubators for innovation. Kim Jongan actually embraced these ideas. The country created more than a dozen of them. On that here's Jenny Town of the

Simpsons Center. Kim Jongan has really tried to put himself out as trying to usher in an era of economic prosperity and not just survival. There was a real emphasis on these special economic zones. North Korea was willing to do a lot of interesting things um and created you know, the legal space for these zones to develop. Kim jong Un also allowed the country's private black markets to blossom.

Since then, this black market economy has grown into a legitimate proct this with many towns hosting government approved marketplaces. In terms of the actual market activity in the economy itself, um, there's been rising economic activity and it's under the kimjong on era. Today there are private grocers, private restaurants, private travel companies, and even private taxis all competing for customers. By at least of North Korea's population was running or

working for some sort of private enterprise. And experts agree the standard of living has increased. There has been a real rise in accumulated wealth per person. Then there's been some you know, medium size to larger size businesses that have flourished in the past few years. What you've also seen is a real loosening of control over like the state owned enterprises. This of course is not the Chinese style reform. Uncle Chang and Kim jong Nam advocated for.

But it's something It's almost as if the two men were given the freedom to whisper into Kim jong UN's ear. Perhaps Yoji Komi's book full of Kim jong Nam's proddings and the aged wisdom of Uncle Chang actually made an impression on the young dictator. That's one interpretation. The other simply times are tough in North Korea, but by allowing these markets to exist, Kim jong Un has marginally boosted the standard of living and boosted his own popularity. The

decision was ultimately self serving. Besides, there's an economic benefit to letting private enterprises operate under the surface. The state can devote fewer funds to social institutions and spend more on its real priorities like nuclear weapons. And since the rise of the private economy, the regime has been pouring more resources into money making schemes and lessen to its people. And that's where the fates of Kim Jong Nam and

Uncle Tang Song tech become tangled and messy. Because Kim jong Nam's death it might have nothing to do with the successorship, It might have nothing to do with dueling families or deceitful stepmothers. Their deaths might have everything to do with money. There are lots of theories as to why Kim jong nam was assassinated. His Peck two blood was a threat to Kim Jong NaN's power. He had argued for warm and opening up. He publicly criticized and

embarrassed the regime by speaking to journalists. But there's another theory, and to understand it you have to know a little about how North Korea makes money. The country has a diverse portfolio. Each year, it sends tens of thousands of migrant laborers, construction workers, loggers, farmers two countries like Kuwait, Botswana, and even Poland. These indentured servants send the majority of their paychecks back to the regime. The country also boasts

a small manufacturing sector. In the seventies and eighties, North Korea was one of the biggest makers and exporters of pachinko gambling machines in Asia. They sold many of these popular systems to the yakuza, But selling gambling games to an organized crime syndicate is relatively above board compared to their other dirty money dealings. Deep inside the concrete bunkers

of Kung young. A secret government bureau called Room thirty nine manages hundreds of illicit money making schemes, from human trafficking to money laundering to rhinoceros horns smuggling. I would say the North Korean leaders are very good at weaponizing their own weirdness. That again is Dr Sun Un Lee

of Tufts University. They do these strange things, the state sponsoring illegal activities, not only weapons proliferation, but the production of fake famous brand cigarettes like Marlborough and other brands. The North Korean regime is a king among counterfeiters, cigarettes, handbags, sneakers, watches,

you name it, they make it. And in the late nineties and early two thousands they were the world's leader at pumping out convincingly real hundred dollar bills called super dollars and matt help them pedal drugs, lots of them. They sell drugs. This is the state, not just criminal gangs inside North Korea, but the state sponsoring all these illicit activities. North Korea ships heroin to places like Australia

and smuggles counterfeit prescription drugs to Bulgaria. It supplies of Japan's math amphetamine with some high quality crystal meth landing in the US. One of North Korea's most ingenious money making methods, however, revolves around a vast network of diplomats and international residents, people like Kim Jong nam and Chang Zong Pec. North Korean diplomat stationed abroad have really behaved like an official criminal mob under the guise of diplomatic immunity,

engaging in criminal activities for profit. That's because North Korea's diplomats and foreign elites are responsible for earning money for the regime, often using diplomatic immunity as a cover. Here again is Michael Madden, originally North Korean. Originally North Korea did a lot of these transactions through their embassy, but the original idea in four was to sell drugs and gold.

There's very strict controls about selling gold, and the way to avoid that was through the diplomatic black bag, which is to say, diplomats have immunity, and the diplomats luggage and briefcases cannot be inspected by customs officials. So North Korea decided to sell gold and brought opium to be processed in and the man who had that bright idea to use the diplomatic black bag was a young North Korean official named John Song Tech. Since then, these money

making techniques have only gotten more sophisticated. The leadership like, you guys go in a business. The leaders say, you guys, go into business for yourselves. You get your own export import network, on your own book, and as long as you just turned the money over to me, then we won't have a problem. This is a little bit like the mafia, where they have to kick up the money

for the regime. And that maybe what ultimately got Kim jong Nam in trouble because as times got tight and quotas got harder to hit, North Korean elites may have started eyeing each other's money ventures and there was a competition. There was a competition, almost a feeding frenzy among North Korean elites trying to earn foreign currency because it ingratiates you to the leader. For North Korean elites, there was

an arms race to make money. And if Kim jong nam had one advantage above the rest, it's that he lived in a place where money, clean and dirty, was easy to make and even easier to hide. Macau. In two thousand four, American law enforcement agencies discovered that Chinese gangs were smuggling North Korean made counterfeits, fake currency, fake cigarettes, and even fake viagra into the port of Newark, New Jersey. What followed is a masterclass and espionage. Two American spies,

undercover as an engaged couple, infiltrated the criminal network. They began helping the group's transport containers of counterfeit goods passed you as customs, such as narcotics, and even surface to air missiles. After winning the smugglers trust, the love birds invited them to a fake wedding on a yacht off the coast of Atlantic City. The criminals came to America and stepped inside limousines that, according to the wedding invitation,

would take them to the ceremony. Inside the limousines tuxedo clad FBI agents. The entire operation led to the indictment of eighties seven suspects, But the biggest surprise came when secret agents followed the money. It led straight to the Shining city on the Pearl River Delta, Macau. Within a year, investigators had discovered that nearly every bank in Macau was laundering super dollars for the North Korean regime. Big banks,

little banks. It didn't matter. Almost all were involved. Even the local branch of the Bank of China, the fifth largest bank on the planet, was allegedly laundering counterfeit money. When it came time to slap Macau's banks with penalties, the Ues Department of Justice ultimately decided to leave the bigger institutions like the Bank of China alone, presumably to avoid triggering a global economic catastrophe. Instead, it targeted one small,

family owned institution called Banko Delta Asia. Sanctions reigned down on the tiny bank. Suddenly, the institution could no longer deal in US currency, essentially locking it out of the global economy. The bank froze all of its accounts linked to North Korea out of fear of being next. So did every other bank in Macau. According to congressional testimony, the freeze worked, North Korea's production lines ground to a halt.

Even the famously dodgy government of Macau instituted a ream of new money laundering laws, forcing North Korea's criminal elements to find new ways to bank their cash. By this point, Kim Jong Nam had been living in Macau for at least five years. No evidence, however, has ever tied him

to the laundering scheme. I don't know whether he was involved in the Banko Delta Asia situation, but I think the reasons for both of these things, for Kim jong Nam being there and for Banko Delta Asia being a conduit for North Korea or risks on the fact that Macau was a pretty opaque place. It's difficult, however, to believe that the son of North Korea's ruler, once the assumed heir to the whole regime, would be unaware what

his dad was doing at his neighborhood bank. In fact, reports suggest that Kim jong Nam had access to a substantial cash of counterfeit super dollars, and shortly after the Bank of Delta Asia scandal, it appears that Kim jong nam began searching for novel ways to make and hide large sums of money, and in the process he might have helped make North Korea one of the most dangerous

and powerful countries on the planet. In the early two thousands, when Kim jong Nam was comfortably settled in Macau, North Korea began to pivot from physical counterfeiting and smuggling to cybercrime. This, of course, is one of the great ironies of North Korea, few citizens there have access to a computer. Those who do are heavily surveiled with screenshots taken of their activity

every time in app is opened. Instead of the Internet, most only have access to an intranet network called Kwangmyong meaning bright Light, which gives access to up to five thousand state approved websites. Only the elite have access to the open Internet. And yet, despite this technological repression, North Korea is home to some of the most obscenely talented computer technicians on the planet. More than seven thousand North Koreans worked in the country cyber army, and they start early.

You know, North Korean hackers are North Korean hackers are recruited at about ten years old, so you get a young person that's really good at computer systems, especially computer coding. North Korea finds them when they're in late elementary school. That's where they find their cyber warriors. North Korea does that with gymnasts as well, and figure skaters and piano players.

There's not a great difference in their respective systems. You have an aptitude for a certain subject, that's basically what you're going to do for the rest of your life. Indeed, according to the journalists Ed Caesar of the New Yorker, students from Kimilsung University and the Kim Check University the technology often quote outperform American and Chinese colleges in the

international collegiate programming contests. Year after year, North Korean students compete at the highest levels at the International Mathematical Olympiad. Here again is Jenny Town. North Korea's cyber capabilities have really grown over the years um and grown to be very adept and very sophisticated. The types of cyber crimes

that we've seen have been pretty elaborate. UM. We've even seen in their intelligence gathering side, a real growth in the sophistication of how they try to do different like phishing campaigns. So it is a real and a formidable force and a real growing part of North Korea's economic strategy.

Under names like the Beagle Boys, the Lazarus Group, and New Romantic, North Korea's Enemy Collapse Sabotage Bureau YEP that's its name, have infected computers in more than a hundred and fifty countries, where they've robbed banks, held organizations for ransom and hacked a t MS. North Korea's computer wizards have digitally laundered money in the Philippines and have crypto jack that has stolen more than one point seven five

billion dollars in cryptocurrency. They've even breached the servers of the South Korean Army, obtaining the military plans of their neighboring enemy. This is Kim jong Nam's legacy in North Korea and for that matter, the world. Na If we go and track Kim jong Nam at the Korean Computer Center from around they're importing computers into the country. They're importing computers into North Korean schools. Those are the tools

they eventually was for recruiting hackers. Kim jong Nam is essentially responsible for a lot of the computer hardware that the cyber warriors trained on in the nineties and the early two thousand's. Kim Jong Nam planted the seeds for North Korea's vast and powerful network of hackers, and not only that, he might have been actively supporting these activities from his home in Macau. Shortly after the Banko Delta fiasco, Kim jong Nam visited the Shangri La Hotel in Bangkok

and met with an expert in Internet security. Chong Nam used a false name, introducing himself as Johnny Kim, and explained that he was running a business and he needed an I T specialist who could protect his servers. Unaware of Johnny Kim's real identity and unsure of the nature of his work, the Internet expert agreed to take the job. The same man who would anonymously discuss these details with Anna Fifield told her that something was fishy about the

man called Johnny Kim. He described going around places in Southeast Asia together with Kim Jong Nam and just talked about how security conscious he was. He always walked down back alleys and places where he knew that there wouldn't be UH security cameras. He was always on the lookout for Japanese people, in particular because Japanese journalists had been so aggressive or active in trying to track him down and talk to him. So he was someone who very

much had his wits about him. Even as a manager, Kim Jong Nam was secretive. The Internet expert was paid in one dollar bills later revealed to be counterfeit super dollars. The man was paired with two cyber specialists, both of them apparently North Korean's. Eventually, the Internet expert learned that kim so called business was actually dozens upon dozens of gambling websites. Online gambling is an easy way to launder money.

It's virtual, there's high cash flow coming from across the globe, and there are significant profit margins by running not just one, but dozens of gambling sites. It's believed that Kim jong Nam could spread illegal and counterfeit funds around, diluting suspicious activity, and this suggests a tantalizing theory. When North Korea could no longer launder physical dollars in Macau's bank, did it find a work around by embracing the murky world of

internet gambling? And was Kim jong Nam the mastermind behind it? And more to the point, if he was making money this way, was he keeping it for himself or sending it back to the regime. There are also plenty of suggestions that he was still in cohots with the regime, whether it was sending money back, you know, raising money for the regime or for his uncle Down Song Tech,

who was he was very close to. Were Chang Song Tech and Kim Jong Nam working together to launder money was Kim jong Nam sent to Macau not to satisfy his capitalist playboy lifestyle, but because it was a kind of place where he could exploit capitalism. This was a place where he was able to do a lot of his business, including potentially running computing or tech businesses for

the North Korean regime. They've been suggestions over the years that he was running the Korean Computer Center and involved in a lot of cyber activities, either on behalf of the North Korean regime or on on his own behalf. There we don't have solid answers to these questions. Kim jong Nam might have had access to millions of dollars at a time, and other North Korean elites were desperate to make money for the regime, And as one of our sources who agreed to speak on background suggested, there's

another layer to this tantalizing theory. Kim jong Nam's online businesses were much more than just fronts to make money. They were also backdoors to order and procure equipment for the regime. That is, when North Korea could an import and item because of sanctions, Kim Jong Nam, from the safety of Southern China could use his online businesses to procure it for them, and according to our source, he used that loophole to buy gadgets and tech that could

be used to fuel North Korea's cyber warfare division. Then Kim jong Nam was not living a life of exile in Macao. He was actively helping build up one of the regime's most notorious and now dangerous divisions. In other words, Kim jong Nam had power, and that might have stoked the ire of other North Korean elites who were not only jealous of the connections he had, but also struggling

to make their payments to the regime. They probably wanted to get their hands on his secret recipe, but from his capitalist perch and Macau, Kim jong Nam saw no reason to share it, so maybe they wanted to take it from him. We had to learn more about this theory. Was it possible that Kim jong Nam's death was in fact sparked not by Kim Jong un but by jealous North Korean elites desperate to get their hands on his

money making software. The theory does make some sense. After all, there were at least two attempts on Kim jong Nam's life in the years prior long before Kim jong un held any power. It's extremely unlikely his father, when he was in control, had ordered these hits. So who did Was someone trying to clear the path to the throne, or were they trying to get their hands on his money? Or were they after this tantalizing software that he and

only he controlled. We tried to corroborate our anonymous sources claims, but most experts we interviewed couldn't confirm it. However, they didn't rule it out either. My name is Sue Kim. I'm a policy analyst at the Rare Incorporation UM. I was a CIA analyst on North Korea. Sue Kim has thought about these possibilities. Could someone else have ordered the hit on Kim jong nam, whether on their own or maybe as a favor to the new Supreme leader? Absolutely possible.

I would say that for for a senior North three officials due to want to do this as a quote unquote favor, But I think this would have to be approved by by Kim jongan because not just because of the high stakes involved in terms of you know, killing

a family member, but because there's potential backlash. I think up to a certain point, yes, it's possible, But then again, keep in mind that decisions authority it's all resting on Kim Jongan, so very likely Kim Jongan had to at least approve the hit, But that's not the same as ordering the hit, and as Kim Jongan had proven before, he wasn't afraid to do that. That takes us back to the beginning of this episode, when Kim Jongan was

masquerading as a Brazilian boy called Joseph Plague. While studying in Switzerland, Kim Jongan fell in love with the snow and the mountains. He learned how to ski and spent weekends at resorts outside the city of Burn. When he became Supreme Leader, Kim Jongan was determined to bring these places to North Korea, So about a year and a half into his regime, Kim Jongan told Chang Song tech that he wanted to build both a ski resort and a water park. According to the testimony of a defector,

this is where Uncle Chang first slipped. He suggested that the young ruler should focus on the economy before he ventured to build a water park. Kim jong un did not take this suggestion. Well, we don't know what happened behind the palace walls, but it's reasonable to assume that Kim Jongan argued that building a luxury resort was building up the economy because in two thousand and six the United Nations targeted North Korea with sanctions hitting nearly every

sector of its economy with the exception of tourism. Tourism has been a very big part also of how the state makes money. And um, these were special zones for inter crean tourism, and there was actually a lot of activity that went on between them. Um, there's a real rise in tourism from China, and you saw a real emphasis and investment in creating more attractive tourist destinations, so different Hot Springs, Um. You know, the build up of the beach resort at once and over the years the

massive ground um Ski resort. So what Uncle Tong saw as wasteful spending on piddling pleasure resorts was in fact, in Kim Jongan's mind at least an investment, a way to make much needed money in a legitimate way. It was also a way to convince citizens that life was indeed getting better. But Chung's opposition made Kim Jongan skeptical of his father's old number two, and so he's looking around. He's looking around. He's looking at these grizzled six seventy

five year old North Korean officials. He's looking to see who's going to be loyal and who's going to form an alternative power center, who's going to be a threat to his consolidation of power. That's where Jong Song Tech starts to loom large. Eventually, Uncle Tong complied, and within a few years, as North Korea plunged into another food crisis, Kim Jong Un would proudly unveil the mash Young Ski

Resort and the muns Who Water Park. He constructs a dolphin aquarium and developed the Sandy Beach front around the Royal compounded One's Hunt with department stores, golf courses, beach resorts, and missile launch pads. But according to defectors, Kim Jong Un and Uncle Tong's relationship never recovered, and he started to undermine his death. He started to undermine his nephew. And we have to look at it from the perspective of Jong Song Tech. John Song Tech is a man

in his late sixties. He had been in the center of North Korea power going back to the nineties seventies, he had fallen in and out of favor, and so you could see Jong Sung Tech being sixty five sixty six years old in two thousand eleven and said, why am I going to turn over all of this power? Why am I going to turn over my life's work to my snot nosed twentysomething nephew. Maybe there is a degree of resentment in that, and so that starts to

form these tensions. Things got even testier when the dear Leader ordered Changue to relinquish control of a condensed milk factory and a fish farm. Apparently members of the government loyal to change blocked the transition when Kim Jong UN's men came to take over. Some say that was the

last straw. Others suggest that Kim Jong Un had this covered Uncle Chang's secret that in two thousand and eight, when Kim Jong Il was recovering from a stroke, Chang had been pushing unsuccessfully to have King Chong Nam chosen as the next successor. Chang Song Tech, in other words, was a trader to Kim Jong Un from the start. Kim Jong Un sort of had to put his uncle

down because his uncle was undermining him. In late Uncle Chang was escorted to the Kongon Military Academy, were two of his closest deputies and arguably two of his closest friends, were trotted in front of anti aircraft machine guns. The weapons designed to pierce the steel fuselage of airplanes, turned the men into pulp. The remains were incinerated with flamethrowers. Uncle Chang immediately face did change. Had survived purges before, He had been demoted in the past and even sent

to re education camps. But when Kim Jong il was in charge, he was always considered family an accordion playing goofball on the other side of the dining table. But this was a new time and Uncle Chang's behavior was a tangible threat for the new Supreme leader, and a Jong Song Tech was undermining him in a way that really not only threatened Kim Jong un as a political figure, but probably threatened Kim Jong UN's life. He was probably the only person in North Korea's political culture that could

ferment an assassination against his nephew. Jong Sung Tech was the only one who had the intelligence and the personality and the connections to be able to make the morning after the coup successful. On December eighth, about a week after his friends were executed, Chang was accused of dozens of charges. Namely, he had been planting his followers and keep posts and had quote work to stretch his tentacles even to the People's army with a foolish calculation that

he would succeed in staging a coup. Other charges seemed more petty and ridiculous. He was accused of clapping for the new leader quote halfheartedly. A photograph of him leaning on an arm rest during a speech a bored expression on his face was used to prove his disloyalty. Kim Jong Un was unsparing. He described Uncle Chang as quote

despicable human scum who was worse than a dog. Only a week past between Chang's arrest and his sentencing, he was taken from the courtroom to the Kongo military training area, and, just like his deputies before him, told to kneel in front of an anti aircraft gun. The death of Uncle Tongue would be a wake up call. It didn't matter how loyal you were to Kim Jongan's father. It didn't

matter how well you help the transition of power. It didn't matter if you had good ideas about the economy, and it didn't matter that years earlier your passport said you were father and son. It really did send a message to not only Jiangsung text faction as to this is not your house, this is my house, UM, and you need to fall in line, UM like I might be young, but I still am decisive and can be brutal.

In other words, if you assent, you die. After Uncle Tong's death, Kim Jongan proudly stated, our party detected and purged the anti party counter revolutionary factionalists. His uncle's friends were quickly replaced from their posts. Dozens of his closest

family members were sent to prison camps. Defector testimonies suggests that more than thirty of Uncle Tong's associates, including family, would be killed by firing squad, but by the end of one of Uncle Tong's closest associates, confidants and friends was out there still alive. Kim Tongue ma'am on the Next Big Brother. How North Korea's relationship with the United States may have contributed to Kim Jong Nam's death in

more ways than one. Big Brother is a production of School of Humans and I Heart Radio and hosted by me even Lee. Lucas Riley is our writer, co director and associate producer. Amelia Brock is our senior producer, co director and editor. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, Else Crowley, and Jason English. Our fact checker is Aaron Blakemore. Music composed by Jason Todd Shannon and Tunewalders. Original score mixed by Vick Stafford, Audio editing by Jesse nice Wanger,

sound design and mixed by Harper W. Harris. Audio correction by Josh Fisher. Voice acting by Mark Chung and Mike Coscarelli. Special thanks to Ryan Murdoch and Will Pearson. If you're enjoying the podcast, help us get the word out by leaving a rating in your favorite podcast app. Until next time, I'm even Lee. School of Humans